How This Weapon Broke Stellaris

How This Weapon Broke Stellaris
Neutron Launchers Broke Stellaris, but WHY? This Video will answer your question on WHY Neutron Launchers Broke Stellaris and it's rich History!
My Patreon: / strategiser
Edited by @harinion
#stellaris

[@Strategiser2]

Neutron Launcher's story will be told as the Legendary Weapons of old, will it last the test of time? we will never know... Music used in Video(in order): 1. An Ending - Undertale 2. ASGORE - Undertale 3. UNDERTALE - Undertale

[@iluvpandas2755]

You have good music taste

[@justgoodvibes1500]

More KZbinrs need to do this.

[@justgoodvibes1500]

The music part

[@LordKore]

can you do a research tip video. I looked everywhere and you're the only person that even mentions how build speed is good, resource/price up by 10% doesn't scale, and research extractors are mid.

[@Strategiser2]

@@LordKore i'll do so after the Research Rework, as that's set to happen next month-ish and will change pretty much everything related to Techs

[@Themrlol2]

Never in my 300 hours playtime understanded the combat so neutron launcher tyranny was good for me :D

[@Strategiser2]

💀

[@knighthunteroi]

Lol 300 hours 😅 cute

[@stargatetitanx]

i have 4,800 hours of play and did not notice it

[@asianboy969]

2,500 hours and still lose the battle but win the war

[@feron_ve]

My first time playing Stellaris against AI I tried to diversify my fleets and have roles for each ship. Then I found out about neutrons. Needless to say I enjoy the rework a lot more than the old combat.

[@elvangulley3210]

The rework sucks and we still have unbalanced meta so all they did was nerf a good weapon into uselessness for no reason

[@Dualbattle2062]

⁠@@elvangulley3210bro’s so mad that his meta got removed

[@mixedtv7083]

Stellaris players when they're forced to adapt and actually use their brain to win combat:

[@elvangulley3210]

@@mixedtv7083 yea because swarm missiles spam is so smart and strategic

[@elvangulley3210]

@@Dualbattle2062 a nerf is fine making them completely useless isn't something doesn't have to go from first to worst

[@vainthatoneoverhere]

I don't miss neutron launchers, but I miss viability of artillery ships. They kinda got nerfed to with the rework, as there is also minimal range now. I miss point blank barrages from kinetic launchers. Still appreciate rework though.

[@wile123456]

It'd a trade off that makes sense tough. Artellery used as shotguns don't make sense, but it also offers counter play

[@art-games6230]

Artillery is still viable, in the form of missiles.

[@vainthatoneoverhere]

@@art-games6230 Ye, I know, I'm using it. But I wanna it be more than just missiles.

[@fuchsmichael93]

Battleships with X slot and the Rest Kinetic Artillerie are still really good against higher lvl Crisis, paired with a few Cruiser Fleets with Neutron and nothing else

[@BlackSabbath628]

@@fuchsmichael93 They rarely use the X Slot weapons because of arcs though, that's the problem. They fire it once and then never again. I had to switch to line for my x slot weapons and use pure L slot battleships as artillery craft.

[@smile-tl9in]

i do notice they STILL didn't allow us to equip starbase like we want. Seriously how hard could it be?!

[@wiirlak8681]

None at all, it was a feature, they removed it ages ago.

[@smile-tl9in]

@@wiirlak8681 wait what? Why ?!

[@wiirlak8681]

@@smile-tl9inIt's so long ago, I'm not sure, but maybe because people were abusing it ? Actually, using mods (or console commands), it's possible to get that feature back, I think.

[@perrytran9504]

Starbases have M slots so imagine how funny pure swarmer missile starbases would be. They usually will still die easily but at least you can grind the enemy down more.

[@SoroskiJae]

​@smile-tl9in IIRC, the current iteration of "starbases" were never customizable, but the last iteration were. In the old system starbases were defensive static constructs that could be placed anywhere in a claimed system and were customizable like ships. They didn't claim systems or anything like now though.

[@keikomoriko8517]

If you did a pole of the community on how people play, I think pvp would probably be the lowest played, and it would fall to pve and rp. Stellaris has never been a balanced pvp experience so people identifying that neutrons were broken would have taken longer.

[@TheDude50447]

With a broken weapon like the old neutrons and randomized tech choices it would be hard to win against someone who just rolled them much earlier I guess.

[@Blundabus1337]

I thiiiiink what happened with why people thought it was bad is because back before the removal of warp drives, Artillery/mass drivers had NO negative damage modifiers while neutron/proton launchers had a negative damage modifier for shields. Artillery/mass was better in every way except with dealing with the scourge, so that just stayed in their heads even after artillery was nerfed. That, and probably because people wanted to believe that a mixed fleet could still work.

[@SidorovichGaming]

Well, now mixed fleets work quite well.

[@Blundabus1337]

@@SidorovichGaming Which is great, yeah.

[@raptinator5088]

I remember the neutron days. I remember the torp corrvets. I remember the days where there was no counter. We live in a more enlightened day where there are actual counters. All it took was the dethrowning of a god. But, as is the nature of life, the circle is complete, we have arrived back to crusiers. Just like the old days. Puts a tear on my veteran's face.

[@endarus6053]

What was, will be.

[@archmagemc3561]

There was another thing Neutron launchers had over all other weapons. They had no travel time. Once they fired, they hit instantly so while the other ships could fire once, then maybe fire again while the shot that was going to destroy them was traveling to them, once a neutron fired, the shot instantly hit the other ship so they wouldn't get that chance of being able to fire again before getting destroyed they could get with other weapons.

[@MarlKitsune]

Nutrons still have one more use. On defence platforms in no shield systems.

[@davidshea6272]

Yeah, I will often build out to a no shield system if its a choke point then pack the starbase with neutron launcher platforms, it can be a nasty surprise.

[@EnlonWhite]

Love the Viewpoints and the explaination, However, Not everyone used 'No Retreat Doctrine' with it. I think it was 'Rapid Deployment' or which ever gave Bonus to Weapon RANGE, that was the true meta pick with those launchers. That and the 'Hit and Run Tactics' were good in general for many other reseaons. Even in the Neutron Launcher Meta, I was not the only weapon to use in a fleet or to counter it. (not talking about the X slot ones.) However the very end game meta was basically Neutron, Fighters, and X Slot, with a few other weapons dabbled in yes. Most by using those main fleets with a few specially fleets in with those that used other weapons.

[@fuchsmichael93]

Swarm Missile Cruiser with Artillery Computer are the equivalent in the Midgame. You win everything, and i really mean everything even if they have 2-3 times the fleetpower

[@lostbutfreesoul]

Wish I could argue, but I always seem to fall back on nano + missile swarms. Computer will never learn how to counter it like a human can....

[@DavidHughey-xu2ce]

Personally Im a fan of frigate spamming, deva torps shred bigger ships

[@robertagren9360]

Nah just spam more lasers for that "instant hit"

[@JRob-ol6rs]

Kings don't reign forever

[@W1se0ldg33zer]

There was no rock-paper-scissors with neutron launchers.

[@Strategiser2]

yep

[@danielmaecki6549]

Look how they massacred my boy!

[@pedrohenriquepereiradefrei7109]

Me playing on Console with these: Ok, got it, rush Neutron Launchers

[@noobsunleashed9703]

the neuron activation meme is literally me when i see a strat upload (i am stellaris content starved)

[@therealspeedwagon1451]

RIP Neutron launchers. I still never ever use disruptors in your honor

[@BullwinkleFFMn]

"Combat us nothing more than an extension of an economic war" Just when the Paradox people finally got the flush out of their faces from the starter corvette fiasco(many yrs ago) now this. I was always a fan of neutron launchers but I could not pick the game apart on this level, I had no idea they were so strong.

[@son_of_the_heavymetal1142]

The worst nightmares during the NL golden age: Xenocidals with Crisis perks and Progenitor Hives

[@Strategiser2]

i still remember those days...nightmares...it keeps me up at night

[@MadamLava094]

@ the editor: I see you out here with ASGORE

[@justarandompersonininterne6583]

and thus the gods ordered what we all knew would happen to the former king...

[@SpaceLover2500]

Super Neutrons may be gone and I started playing after the combat rework... but neutrons will always have a place i my heart for eviscerating Prethoryn ships the moment they enter the system.

[@DraconiusDragora]

The reason why it never got nerfed. No one was saying "It is OP". The Stellaris Devs has this trait, this single trait, no brain, no thought, only act of hear someone say "This is OP" and bam, they will hit it with a nerf hammer so hard someone in Chile shat themselves. Example, is all these "This is OP" videos, when something is balanced to be equal to other things in end game, but might have an early game bonus which *might* help the player. Since remember, the game is literally RNG on a plate. So you might end up in the shittiest part of the whole galaxy surrounded by fanatic purifiers, marauders, and fallen empire. (This happened to me, where I only had *one* system. Because I was surrounded by enemies right next to me, and had a fallen empire, which also hated my guts. Fun game, lasted only 2 in game years.) Like Habitats, they got nerfed again, why? Because people said they were "OP". What everyone forget, is just how they slogged behind towards the end game, because of the limited space the habitats had, and the requirement of Natural Resources, which is Ever so damn low. Found a system with +6 Minerals, that is 1-3 Habitats. No planet with Energy? Bad luck. Oh you want Research? Well if you are lucky one of the anomalies will give you one. But then you could find *one* system with a lot of resources, of course that makes you happy. Since now you can finally expand your empire in the Economic growth. Meanwhile the A.I has colonized 15 planets, built an army and navy that reach the 90k fleet strength. So with the buff, the Alloy drain still a pain but at least you could focus and get even smaller systems with barely any, or non at all natural resources to work, since not only did they get more population to work with, you could specialize them better. But since that was "OP" according to people, they got nerfed *again*. And people say they are "Balanced" now, these people either don't play long games, or have never done the calculations. Suddenly a system which gave 33 Districts, enough Mineral, Energy and Research production to get by, which a lot of energy and minerals going to Research and Alloy production to just keep it going. Down to a 22 district limit. Which made so the habitat no longer could sustain itself, or have any income in research, energy, or minerals, even alloys was in the minus. So yeah, since no one was saying "Neutron Launcher OP" instead saying "Missiles bad, Kinetic bad." the Devs didn't even wiff it to check if anything in the energy category was OP.

[@kainwittrig2180]

This is the fault of PDX KZbinrs

[@robertagren9360]

There's a research who say anti gravity construction which increase housing on planets saying that it is building habitats in space with help of fast elevators. It wasn't the habitats but the combination of both planet and habitats.

[@DraconiusDragora]

@@robertagren9360 Basically super long sky scrapers.

[@enriquegarcia7207]

Another awesome video thank you!

[@ear-123]

I find it really funny that neutron battleships weren't just broken, but broken in the most broken way possible. Almost every aspect of ship combat was somehow advantageous to them. The neutron launchers multipliers against different armor types were perfectly exploiting multiple different systems: Being bad against shield doesn't matter that much when shields are the only armor type you can't really stack. Bigger bonus on hull than armor meant that they would always target lowest health ships maximizing enemy losses. Combined with instant travel time overkilling wasn't an issue. Their high damage per shot prevented disengagement. Since ships could disengage every time they were hit when under 50% hull all lower damage weapons were worse at actually destroying ships. Evasion being hard caped at 90% meant that after a point evasion wouldn't give you more advantage but tracking would so dodging their massive damage wasn't an option. Repeatable techs give both 5% damage and atk speed to increase offense and armor only gets that 5% once per tier. That meant that the later the game got battles were shorter so the high burst damage of neutron launchers would inflate their performance compared to more constant damage weapons. They also had the sniper problem of being the best at long ranges and that performance not falling at short range. But because there weren't any better options at short range they were just the best at all ranges. Battleships abused neutron launchers the best since you could run only them and X slot weapons which were basically just better neutron launchers. Their high health meant that you sometimes wouldn't get oneshot and had some change to disengage. Their low evasion didn't matter when neutron launchers were hitting anyway. They also had artillery combat computer to give them even more range. Their low speed didn't matter when you were using them with Titans which had the same speed. Highest range + instant travel time + massive alpha damage meant that going against neutron battleships meant that after the battle starts 20+% of your fleet was gone. And to win after that your ships would need to be 25% better than neutron battleships just to brake even which wasn't possible. That meant that when they shot first the only way to win after that was with just having more ships. Logistically it is also easier to just use one type of ship so and battleships being the biggest ship meant that they also were the least annoying to deal with. In conclusion they were guns in a knife fight and who pulled the trigger first had no chance to get shot back.

[@El_Presidente_5337]

I always had neutron launchers and artillery battleships back then. Now I haven't build a ship with a neutron launcher since the update hit.

[@holyordersoftheemperorsinq246]

I miss the times when I had the most insane settings on Gigastructures and had long ass wars fought with 5 million fleets where I just hat 5 Mega Shipyards build me endless stacks of 40 Arillery Battleships with Neutron Launchers and self-repairing armor and just sent them into the frey

[@kahlzun]

war is always an extension of an economic conflict

[@robertagren9360]

Except for sovjet. They just threw the book into the fire to keep warmth at winter

[@onomatopeja943]

Question, why do those cruisers utilizing kinetic artillery and neutron launcher have nothing else like missiles? Isn't that a waste of additional damage?

[@Strategiser2]

it's to keep the "Median Range" 120 combat computers are extremely wonky in which when multiple weapons with different ranges are combined, their "combat pattern" becomes very inconsistent

[@ol0k689]

I just wish there was a slider to limit the amount of fleet any rmpire can raise...

[@EnlonWhite]

I love this minimalist ships that have obvious weaknesses, you can send half the fleet power of a mixed fleet that is fully built (no missing weapons, just the right combat computers for each design) and absolutely cream these minimalist fleets to DEATH, Seriously, spamming ships that are cheaper does not really work if the empire is a Player, and knows to expect this. sadly it is likely that winning with minimalist designs is because the person tech rushed or are playing full Militarist empires vs those who didnt and dont know how to counter.

[@ikkonoishi]

I miss immortal corvette stacks. Max out hull health, add the crystal hull regeneration, and ignore evasion. The hull health bonus was flat so the less health they started with the more valuable it was.

[@IamAWESOME3980]

Omg, are you voice actor for that big elder slug namekian in tfs dragonballz abridged?

[@akuladoctor7355]

With a ton of testing i figured, that everything has at least one counter, but the hardest to counter is the hangar battleship with arc-emitter. Arc emitter is basically a superior disruptor, and despite being X weapon the minimum range is just 10. Which is very low. Anything but torpedo computer will kepp that distance. The rest of the weapons are hangars, whilrind missiles, and some point defense, because we can. It does not give the old fashioned just oneshot anyone from 50% health, but the only good counter i found is neutron frigates. It beats everything else.

[@robincray116]

Arc emitter with carriers (mostly because the other disruptor style weapons are bad) has been my go to anti crisis meta for years now. I never understood why the meta was an all large slot neutron launcher battleship when having an x slot was often the better choice.

[@-AytaL-]

The neutron nerf was too harsh.

[@user-tm8xf4yo6q]

1:00 Yeah, everything has changed so much, now instead of destroyers and battleships with proton launchers we now have corvettes and cruisers with missiles......

[@SilasPT]

This lol, neutron meta was way more diverse in ship classes, with all ship types being viable with the sole expectation of corvettes (which isn’t that bad imo)

[@MrErdem95]

I always used neutron + arc emitter spam. And if corvettes disruptor spam in early mid game.

[@kennyholmes5196]

Of note, now that shields have fallen out of favor due to the armor rework, it is better to just go straight lasers instead of kinetic artillery.

[@Paperbag34]

I still kinda miss old Neutrons. I only ever played singleplayer so having a way to just destroy the AI was always fun.

[@TheDude50447]

Iirc putting the Giga canon in the X slot and neutrons on the rest of the battleship was the better design since shields were the meta defense.

[@Tathanic]

instead of Neutron Launchers its now kinetic artillery and/or phased disruptors corvette stacks

[@joehelland1635]

I was a Nuetron enjoyer from day 1 of stellaris haha.... sad to see the king die. but as a wise man once said "No king reigns forever my son."

[@v84l42]

do you make your voice intentionally high-pitched?

[@tumama7801]

if the console version its still in the 3.5 version. the neutron launchers are meta?

[@benjaminbesancon8916]

Liked the video b/c the Napoleon Image was included.

[@kynanallen8280]

Okay so is there really any alternatives to the neutron launchers or like an equivalent. I was thinking devastator torpedoes but I'm not sure.

[@xzardas541]

Instead of neutron spam multiplayer is plagued by disruptor spam now, devastators are sadly worthless due to super short range and only ship that could use them goes into retard mode thanks to new combat computers.

[@rialvita7141]

Suddenly I have the urge tl build an Aetherophasic Engine after seeing this.

[@tem1611]

Ngl the neutron spam was easy for my tiny pea brain, now the game needs actual strategy and i suffer greatly

[@lsdave42]

No no just slap either all missiles or all disruptors until battleships, then go all strike craft + arc emitters. Only very slightly more complicated

[@zipster6393]

As with ever great king, their reign must come to an end...

[@AuthorOfNewborne]

Genuineally happy about the Combat rework. Despised Nuetrons so much I stopped using them

[@shaka2tu]

oh yeah they last news was the rework, how is it now? is that mean counter every crisis template is not working anymore?

[@robocreator2233]

do old tachyon lances before they added and swapped them to XL slots.

[@panmopsel]

7:28 u said frigates are bad, seems u never used cloaked ones, 80 can one shot entire grey tempest or pretty much any leviathan, and its great to remove choke points early game

[@r30413]

You guys remember 6x tachyon lance battleships... ;D The universe was our b1tch!

[@MrMichaelHouse]

Playing on console, Neutron Launchers are still the big damaging L slot weapons here. And I'm going to enjoy every moment of using it before a patch comes

[@misterstaple]

I remember it ruined ur tech pathing too. You always had to rush Nlaunchers

[@user-wz2wf8rd8t]

Disruptor CLs are old now?

[@estester100]

Neuptron lanchur

[@xxfivebloomxx2376]

Ah yes the neuptron lanchur

[@krokasaurus3283]

Your voice is grating on my earnubs

[@xzardas541]

As much as I enjoy that carriers and missiles are minimaly usefull now I do not enjoy minimim range causing all my ships to go retard mode as soon as single corvete gets close to them.

[@MaximusLight]

You think Neutron Launchers were bad, then you should've seen Tachyon Lances when they occupied a L slot

[@mariomario-dy1kc]

Huh, you a new youtuber ? You remind me of this other youtuber, strat. Same name, same profile, same videos, but his all started with "Did you know that in Stellaris"!

[@Strategiser2]

hmmmm, never heard of him, maybe you're just hallucinating and mixing people up

[@lucapolimanti5506]

damn that was sad man

[@Fr33zerg]

You can't break something that is already broken

[@AMQWERTY379]

7:59 i dont get it, shouldn't torpedos get destroyed by PD? if that's the case then overlord-class battleships should fare againt these fairly well?

[@Strategiser2]

Neutrons are "instant hit", they cannot be intercepted no matter how much PD the enemy has

[@AMQWERTY379]

@@Strategiser2 nahhh bro i'm dead 💀

[@Dreagostini]

No empire rules forever.

[@buckleyourpants6509]

I Just use The Autobuilded ships...

[@lsdave42]

4:50 is this a real battle? "lose very little ships" (shows battleship fleet with 12/60 or 20% losses, albeit losing no titans) *this is relatively heavy losses* "and in exchange, you can obliterate half or more of the enemy fleet" (shows enemy fleet with 98/478 or 20.5% losses) *this is relatively heavy losses as well, but far from being obliterated, and not close to half* I'd also guess that the surviving battleships took a heavy amount of damage and needed to repair, while the surviving corvettes were mostly unscathed, being as neutron launchers had such high damage upon hitting. I'd need to see the damage stats and compare build costs and such before declaring a winner, but if you did compare fleets of equal build cost, then I kind of think the corvette fleets held their own. That's aside from the fact that you added titans to your battleship fleet and just used a mono-corvette fleet.

[@Strategiser2]

it was showing "worst case scenarios" when a situation favors the enemy positioning there was a minor point about how even in an unfavorable situation (where enemy starts battle in close range) you won't get punished the line explaining this did not make the cut for pacing reasons

[@lsdave42]

@@Strategiser2 Ahh, makes more sense now. Wow. For a torpedo fleet *starting at close range* that's rough. Depending on total fleet build cost and damage done, need to retreat for repairs, etc, it still *might* be a win for the corvette fleet, but even if so, not by much. And the torpedo fleet would get wiped with a long-range start, so they'd need to ambush just to have a chance. Not much of a counter, as you said. Thanks for clearing that up :3

[@calebmcallister4289]

Me still in console still crushing ai with Neutron Launchers

[@Riviera5252]

Good to know this evil information, as i play on console so i can still possibly use this spam >:3

[@teds8860]

I miss Tachyon destroyers

[@BIGESTblade]

Neutron Launcher nerf broke the game. Now you can build random garbage and still win. Ridicilous.

[@TheRealKiRBEY]

yea

[@Say10n]

Теперь новой имбой стали древние истребители, игнорирующие броню, в комбинации с генераторами зрони. Такие звездные не пробиваются.

[@PerfectAlibi1]

Why do the devs always over nerf their shit?

[@Afronautsays]

and it was good

[@doltBmB]

not a new problem, torpedo corvettes were insanely broken to begin with, they never had good balance in this game ever

[@bigmanjam7713]

As a console player I still suffer lol

[@i0a729]

its still broken on console. im so bored of seeing it every game

[@Probablyacowtbh]

wot, again?

[@redy55]

content is good but sorry I cant stand your voice

[@Dead_MON5TER]

Haha pc peasants I play on console so it's still good.

[@xxxyxxxy7483]

Бесполезное говно против про

[@blankspace178]

*NEUTRON/PROTON LAUNCHERS ARE USESLESS AFTER 3.8....WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? DEVASTATOR TORPEDOS ARE THE DEADLIEST WEAPON IN CURRENT META. TORPEDO CLASS CRUISERS WILL LITERALLY KILL ANYTHING ON THE MAP INCLUDING TITANS.*

[@MarlKitsune]

Thats like saying nullbeams arn't bad because auto cannons are powerful. They are both diffrent weapons that merely share a slot.

[@blankspace178]

@@MarlKitsune Nullbeams have always been useless...you're trolling bro.

[@MarlKitsune]

@@blankspace178 Confession through projection.