How To 100% AoR EVERYTIME | Analysis Of The Grudge Calculation

[@spookydan39]

So from what I picked up: If Elgi, kill. If Grobi, kill. If Thaggoraki, kill. If Wazzock, kill. If Something Else...probably kill.

[@ekothesilent9456]

Please tell me what all those dwarven words mean :)

[@spookydan39]

@@ekothesilent9456 Elgi = Elf Grobi = Goblins (and / or Greenskins in general) Thaggoraki = Skaven Wazzock = Idiot

[@olafthemoose9413]

Elgi is elves. Grobi is goblins I think. Thaggoraki and Wazzock I have no clue.

[@spookydan39]

@@ekothesilent9456 I tried answering but I think youtube auto-deleted my post because of the translation of Wazzock so reposting. Elgi = Elf. Grobi = Goblin (and / or Greenskins in general). Thaggoraki = Skaven. Wazzock = Somebody who is not smart, starts with i and ends with diot.

[@ekothesilent9456]

@@spookydan39 yeah unfortunately we aren’t allowed to say our government mandated no-no words anymore. We are only allowed to talk about Netflix and McDonald’s these days.

[@alertedcoyote7892]

It would be nice if the AoR ended automatically the turn after you got 100%, that way you could keep gathering grudges, and even stack age of reckoning armies if you were fast enough

[@Epicnaab]

The most annoying thing during my campaign was that I reached 100% with 5 turns remaining for the first couple of grudges and the extra grudges settled didn't count towards anything. The next age just started with at 0%. So wtf should I do? Just plan my grudges out towards 100% with 1 turn remaining and sitting on my ass for 5 turns?! That's a grudge in it self!

[@Shero1337]

Don't those grudges still count towards confederation?

[@BittermanAndy]

@@Shero1337 Yeah, but after your first confederation, the multiplier for the next confederation makes confederating that way basically impossible. So it's back to diplomacy for confederation... which adds yet another multiplier onto confederating by grudges.

[@gammothdraws]

@@Shero1337 But confederation is 70k on turn 10, and 120 on turn, like, 30. How am I supposed to confederate them when the grudges needed are so high?

[@guilliman1990]

Yeah im failing to see how it's even possible to confederation them this way simply crazy

[@jakubs.5966]

@@gammothdraws Thorgrim had 35k on turn 75 in my campaign. I was on 28k by that time. But I only did confederate via grudges 1 time, to get Grombi. I waited after to get someone fat with nice settlements..

[@elmertsai1312]

It's very easy to stack up grudges. Just be locked into war with the race with good grudge multiplier (greenskins is good I've found) and make a dwarf dwarf settlement the "farm spot". You do this by not defending the settlement and let it gets taken and taking it back with an army sitting in ambush nearby. You do this repeatedly and the grudges will start to stack up really high for the whole greenskin race and you can collect it from time to time.

[@elmertsai1312]

The "take every settlement as soon as possible" strategy is terrible for grudges for this reason. You really want to build up your grudges before taking those settlements as far as grudges go. Expand against other races as you see fit but just need to be more conservative when killing the high grudge multiplier races.

[@milohenry1233]

Omg thanks I was moving as fast as possible lol

[@Ryan-ok2xr]

such stupid cheese. fuck CA

[@stormrage3708]

as Ungrim, if you don't take out Azhag as soon as possible, He suddenly declares war on you and attacks with two full armies, followed by their own two full waugh stacks. While it is a good idea to go to the Karak Eight Peaks area as per your calculations, it's imperative to take Azhag out early, lest you lose the whole campaign.

[@Battleseyttv]

You're able to take him out with a small army + gyro copters, in all the streams I've played with Ungrim I demonstrated being able to do a split start of going north + south. I agree with your assessment which is why I prefer the best of both worlds!

[@silentdon40k]

I decided to give dwarves a shot after the new 5.2 patch (I think, it got the deeps update). I played Thorek and had fun expanding, got about 3 provinces, made some allies, then confederated karak azul per event. Traded some settlements to different factions to get trade etc and was enjoying the new buildings and stuff for dwarfs, exploring the new tech tree. I decided to go for AoR and found out that I need 18000 grudges to get it, since I got a few alliances, hence the vision. Half of my neighbours have 0 total grudges against me. Like lizardmen, empire and undead (tf????). Spent 5 turns to get my army to wood elves, just to see them get wiped by Settra the F imperishable (who died to the undead in every single game before this patch). This was literally the first time I've seen Settra on the map past turn 20. So I got 0 grudges out of that. But the requirement for AoR wasn't reduced. The combined grudge count for Skaven and Orks nearby (about 30+ settlements total) is not enough to hit the AoR requirement. Even if it was, how am I supposed to get 30 settlements in 15 turns? This is insane. I literally have 1.5 army stacks going at this point, I think it's turn 40 or something. So to get the AoR as dwarfs you have to: avoid scouting as much as possible, dodge Cathay caravans randomly visiting you and giving vision over them (oh and if their settlements get captured by random chaos faction you get vision too, great), avoid trading, avoid any and all alliances (shared vision), rush to high value grudge holders as soon as possible, since they prefer to suicide 20 stacks somewhere to empire or lizardmen losing the grudges, declare war on EVERYONE to get the passive grudge collection going. They should tweak the numbers to make this thing achievable post turn 15 OR remove the negative effects for low grudge count and give some "tokens" for completing grudges, these tokens can then be exchanged for grudge settle units or something OR with each 500(1K, 2K whatever) grudges done you get a new pack of random grudge settler units, and the more you fill the grudge meter the better the chance to get good units instead of trash slayers. The scaling is completely off, but with a few fixes this would be a fun mechanic.

[@donpizzaplays8529]

I played a Grombrindal campaign recently and kind of stopped because I was reliant on quest battles for the +500 and on that special event that adds grudges to a faction if you declare war on them to get 100% AOR. So once I ran out of quest battles and that event didn't pop up in a while, I didn't know what to do. I had to get 2000 grudges but the settlements and armies around me had around 50/100 grudges at most, some way below 50. Alith Anar was the best choice but his armies and settlements where in the range of 10-100 grudges. I was so frustrated because I was like why does this game not give me grudges????? It's like it doesn't want me to play the AOR system so it gives me super low grudges. Do you know if this is a bug? Like I'm not exagerating here, I had 2 full stacks and a grudge settler army and couldn't get past 40% with Alith Anar settlements giving like 4 grudges, 0, sometimes 100...

[@1ManRandom]

I had the same problem in a Malakai campaign. I settled grudges too fast and wound up with neighbors who had extremely low grudge numbers. Honestly, the penalties from a bad AOR aren’t game ruining. Elgi stings a bit, but Skruff is doable. I had a great campaign on hard difficulty despite only hitting 100% in the late game. My best advice is to take some of your armies and start advancing/conquering towards factions you know will have high grudges. In your case, Ulthuan would probably be good. They seem to spawn with a good number of grudges by virtue of being a legendary grudge and elves. You could also advance east through the Chaos Wastes. Even if the Chaos factions don’t start with grudges, they build them up quickly, and they’re aggressive enough that they’re likely to declare on you once you get close, meaning more grudges. You might have to deal with a couple bad AORs during that time, but embrace the suck and you’ll be fine. Worst case scenario, you’ll have a deal with a couple rebellions and trim your military spending a bit.

[@jakubs.5966]

What man random said. Plus, sadly, Grombrindal has the worst positioning for this new mechanic. You want to be close to everyone who does bully other dawi factions. Not to mention, you want to prolong certain conflicts and give deals to factions that will break them and declare was on you, letting them accumulate more. Azag wiping out Ungrim? Best thing ever if you want to get that sweet spot. I did finish my 100 turns Makalai campaign. The Most I saw was, 3600 on Azag, each of his original settlements had 1100-700. Skrag fighting both Belegar and minor dawi factions for ages? Yes please. Each of his settlements, including camps, had from 400-800 with over 1500 over his head by the time I helped him lose it. On my legendary/vh I had really fun campaign, Makalai has big challenges, but also big guns to solve them all. I ended up with 75k total grudges by turn 100. I didn't get max age 3 times in those 100 turns, at worst I had 50%, so nothing bad. You need to push for those Legendary grudges as well, if you get lucky, like I did, some of them will by done by other Dawi factions, like finishing off Skaven and taking over Karak-eight-peaks, I just had fat free 2500 drop on me and I did nothing. Thorgrim did it all. Still I only had done 6 out of 10 by turn 100. Not sure how much I got from quest battles total. Let's say a 1000 + 6x 2500 = 16k. So about 50k in 100 turns was my own contribution. What I do find annoying is that your 'grudges' events stop happening after turn 20 or even faster. Not to mention, they can happen on your allied factions. Which is stupid. I only ever saw those happen 2 times..

[@danielszabo7988]

I am playing Grombrindal at the moment and I share your frustration. The thing that irritates me the most is that this way I will never be able to confederate the other legendary lords. Thorgrim is strong in my campaign at the moment, and he has 15k grudges, while I have 5k even though I have twice as many settlements than him. So to confederate, I need 20k settled grudges, which is basically impossible since every enemy I fight is giving around 50 grudges. This system is awful at the moment, still makes no sense. You can no longer confederate dwarf legendary lords the original way, so the only method I could use if I wanted to get all the lords is to kill them all, and then somehow get the required amount of grudges. Maybe I will have enough by turn 500.

[@donpizzaplays8529]

@@danielszabo7988 Yeah and sometimes it's so easy to hit 100% that you spent half the AOR time doing nothing so you don't waste the grudges. It feels like it's either super difficult or super easy. It does get easier later on tho when you have more and more armies that are getting grudges non stop but it's still weird to me.

[@danielszabo7988]

@@donpizzaplays8529 I think this needs another fix somehow. Maybe calculate grudgbes even when factions attack order factions or something like that. There are literally no dwarves close to Grombrindal, so you will never see more than around 100 grudges from a single source. I just don't understand how they didn't test this

[@Galnar]

lovely, thank you for the video!

[@Object7533]

Thank you for the video! ... it would have been nice if you had also added a few words on how the number of grudges required for the next AoR are actually calculated (bordering factions etc.?) to make it a more comprehensive guide. Most of what you explained is also not a thing I can influence very much if I play the dwarven side ... Nontheless very informative! Appreciate the time it took to dissect that system ... if only CA would value their players time more and simply add "rulebooks" for ingame mechanics, instead of making guys like you figure it out for the playerbase ...

[@kevinhowe543]

Googling for over a week on how to learn dwarfs and I finally find your channel. INSTA SUB

[@lukas1889]

Well explained thank you. How are the grudge targets calculated exactly? As my last thorgrim campaign I started with a target of 2300. But only around 1200 worth of grudges around me to collect

[@kirilld6206]

Great video, thank you!

[@SGProductions87]

If I occupy a settlement, which lets say has factions surrounding it with 1000 grudges incurred, will that 1000 be added to the next calculation even if I abandon or sell the settlement to someone else? Also, just to confirm, the grudges incurred added to the next calculation is from an entire adjacent faction's settlements and armies, not just the adjacent settlements and armies in adjacent regions? If I raze everything adjacent around all my settlements by the end of an age, will that reduce my grudges target and how significantly? Does it change it I occupy, then abandon?

[@juliancoria4598]

Resumen: Your existence its a grudge...

[@akedio1033]

Need AoR to end if you get 100%, also another problem running out of grudges in late game, enemies are not worth much

[@rogofos]

I started playing as a minor dwarf faction with mixer and it set the AoR to 1430 even though the entire continent I'm on doesn't even add up to 200 at turn 1 so I'm stumped as to how is AoR actually calculated there's probably some flat part to it screwing me over?

[@BittermanAndy]

This tells me how grudges are calculated - thanks - but I still have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA of the level set for the AoR. One time I managed to time it so I ended an AoR with no enemies on my borders (therefore very few grudges), which is how I vaguely understand it to work since the patch. For the next AoR, I was set a target of 28000! Of course I got nowhere near that, because I couldn't - the enemies I was still at war with, which didn't even border my lands, only had about 1500 outstanding grudges available between them. I would have had to basically conquer every faction on the map to get 28000 grudges at that point, which is ridiculous. Completely impenetrable mechanic. (I don't think it "ruins Dwarfs" - it was still quite a straightforward campaign - though before the patch I can see it might have. It just all seems completely arbitrary, and that's not good gameplay).

[@planomathandscience]

This. The "border" only grudges is clearly not working. I feel better, my jump was from 2400 to only 19,000

[@PathfindersAxe]

I'm having a similar problem, the game wants me to get 27000+ grudges each AOR and the factions around me just don't have that many grudges, even the Chaos Dwarves and Greenskins are maybe 200-300 for each settlement/army, many of them even lower. Skarbrand had 1 grudge on each. I think maybe I've been advancing too fast to try and complete the grudges, I'm going to try slowing down a bit, but it goes against every dwarven instinct to allow the Grobi to successfully attack me!

[@SGProductions87]

So if I intentionally occupy a settlement I cannot hold I can use that to rack up grudges incurred?

[@Battleseyttv]

Yup! It's the best way to keep getting grudges, as building wide helps a lot but keep in mind it'll increase how many grudges are required ☺️

[@windflier1684]

I just let one enemy keep sacking one of my useless settlement that I don't need (better if it's one I took from them), the army that took the settlement would have at least 300 grudge on them, beat them and take the settlement back, wait for another, rinse and repeat. You can get constantly 100% AOR non-stop.

[@ryangallant1886]

It probably doesn't add up to much compared to the other actions, but I'm guessing raiding also participates into grudges. Wouldn't know by how significantly though

[@riccardo393e7]

After the patch i wasn’t able to reach it And only 2 storage of grudge units it’s to little

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@johndelaney4617]

Hey battlesey are you still going to release a daemon of chaos guide video?? Also informative video thanks 😁🔥

[@jonasfull]

So what they do to your allies or friends of other races doesn't matter?

[@bestmeh2643]

4:00 bro basically explaining racisme

[@jb1139]

I haven't had a problem with he age of reckoning mechanic. My problem is how the heck does one use grudges to confederate? Those seem to be impossible values to meet.

[@brentonherbert7775]

By actively seeking high grudge values? By not confederating minor factions? Because you COULD have that 1 dwarf settlement thats about to explode.... Or you could just leave it and not have to foot another 7.5k grudge cost increase... Its that simple. Some things like belegar really SHOULD confederate with their quest option but thorgrim? Thoric? Not so much... Better to leave em. Let the enemy get the grudges and then just take em back. Win win in that case.

[@TheGlenn8]

A FOOKN KNOIFE EAAAARR!!!!

[@Mahons]

I do find total war warhammer 3's difficulties to just be almost straight up lies at this point, since if you play on easy campaign difficulty you get less grudges meaning the grudge mechanic will feel hard since the enemies will not attack you as often as well, whereas on harder difficulties a lot more enemies attack you with smaller armies and they have more grudges so the grudge mechanic will feel really easy. On top of that with the fact that if you play on hard or very hard battle difficulty with the manual fighting AI/player bonuses set to 0 you will usually be able to win any valiant defeats and a some of the close defeats when manual fighting instead of autoresolving, whereas if you play on normal or easy battle difficulty you can't since in autoresolve the player gets like a 100%+ stats modifier on easy and normal. And the AI will never start a fight it cannot win in autoresolve so in hard or very hard battle difficulty it will send one army maybe not full stack whereas in easy or medium it will send 3 full stacks.

[@hangingtreegg]

i have 3 armies squashing 400 grudge armies or settlements every other turn and still get skruff. this system is just broken right now

[@memedaddy6932]

Do these calculations only happen when you're playing as a dwarf faction yourself, or is it best to wipe the dwarfs out early to ensure that it won't have a chance to slow down late game turn times?

[@arthanor9631]

They might. I see a number on the settlement bar when I take one from the dwarves as chaos dwarves. That said, I wouldn't expect the calculation of grudge amounts to take much time, nor for it to matter when the number gets bigger, compared to the campaign AI having to "play".

[@planomathandscience]

The system is totally bullshit. Playing as Thorek, I bordered only Lybaras, Khorne, Volkmar and Origo. Wasn't at war with anyone other than Khorne. Grudges went to 19, 000. I was being hit with the grudges for Bloody Hand, and Mors who'd been fucking over Karaz a Karak and whom I bordered nowhere! When I finally met the Ogres, every one of their units and towns had hundreds of grudges due to war with Barak Varr and Karak Hirn. Such bullshit. They said it was only what you border. No,

[@alostchattino]

6:47 Your videos as WHAT ???

[@Battleseyttv]

SHORT?!?!

[@Unknown-lf2kl]

This feels way too much complicated, don't get me wrong.The Warhammer 2 grudged systems were way too simplified.I feel like they just went from 1 extreme to the other.

[@Unknown-lf2kl]

A little note.Though this could give many potential for mods to make it better, so maybe it's good it's so complicated since it gives more options for the modern communities to do something fun with it.

[@jakubs.5966]

Attack factions that attack other dwarves. Super hard to understand. I had Azag amass 3600 grudges on his head by destroying Ungrim in my campaign, each of his settlements had 700-1000. I think it's a great system that motivates you to seek out your natural enemies.

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

Lore accurate Dwarf grudges. In lore, throngs of Dwarfs will semi-regularly raze Empire settlements because the mayor's great-great-great grandfather cheated a clan merchant or something

[@BittermanAndy]

@@jakubs.5966 Sure, attack the nearest enemy with the largest number of grudges, simple and thematic. Fair enough, great mechanic! Right...? Now it's a new AoR, I've got no enemies on my borders, my (distant) enemies have 1500 grudges available between them, and I've been set a target of 28000 grudges for this AoR. Um... why? Completely impenetrable, no logical or obvious rules about how it's calculated. It's just an arbitrary, apparently-random number that you try to reach by attacking the army with the largest number next to it, like you're playing one of those crappy rip-off mobile games that are always advertising on KZbin ("oh no, do I choose x2 or +3? This is such a difficult choice!"). It's a terrible mechanic.

[@jakubs.5966]

@@BittermanAndy I had 15k by turn 75. Total settled 28k. What I don't like in this is how much more you need between confederating. After getting Grombi I just stopped until I could get the next one that has settlements. The amounts are growing like crazy. It is not well-polished yet, but it is good. Makes sense, there is logic behind it, it's thematic. On the other hand, I got myself 20 settlements for getting 25k grudges done by confederating Thorek, who was 2 empires away. Pretty good if you ask me. Overall I like it, some aspects can be improved. My campaigns are usually done by turn 70. Rolling around and stomping AI is boring.

[@jofac22]

from a bad system to another bad system lmao

[@simmy1823]

This seems like a well-reasoned, thematic and enjoyable mechanic to me. Why do you think it's bad?

[@jofac22]

@@simmy1823 you essentially have to hope the AI accrues grudge points or you’ll be handicapped. It’s kinda like shaven food except with food you have means of getting it consistently

[@anon4854]

@@simmy1823 Because it's none of those things. Gameplay wise it encourages the player to run a Dawi campaign like they're playing Khorne. Lore wise Dwarfs are not starting war after war and destroying virtually everything in their wake over grudges. Dwarfs dont have the economy or population for eternal war. They have to pick and choose their fights and they're on the backfoot and fighting defensive wars more than they're campaigning across the Old World.

[@mathieumercier7936]

All these convoluted numbers are a necessity to make the system work. The good thing is that you don't have to know them to appreciate the game. IMO, the probleme lies in the age of reckoning bonus/malus resetting every 15 turns, which feels completely unnatural. This incentivises not attacking after reaching the threshold in fear of not having enough foe to reach it during the next round of 15 turns. Maybe a system where your bonus is not reset but the grudges needed to maintain them slowly increases over time would fit better.

[@anon4854]

@@mathieumercier7936 Easier to just use the existing Waaagh system which has the benefit of giving the player agency on when to initiate it. This system is too convoluted for CA to ever get right.

[@AliothAncalagon]

Yeah, I think I will just wait until mods fixed this mess xD

[@brentonherbert7775]

Why? Because "Kill things that killed dwarves" is too hard to understand...? Seems about right for the average player of this game.

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@brentonherbert7775 Because the rework sucks, I want a better one and modders are more likely to furfill my wish than CA. Hell, I am a modder myself. Not the best one ever, but I would rather spend 2 months fixing it than playing vanilla Dwarves right now.

[@brentonherbert7775]

@@AliothAncalagon "The rework sucks" Well thats your opinion cant please everybody. But they always feel the need to complain that their very specific needs aren't met every chance they get. I personally would've liked a point store. But hey here we are. With one of us crying for modders to fix something and the other just simply enjoying the fact its something new and interesting to work towards.

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@brentonherbert7775 What kind of Copium is that? Did you also defend the first iteration of the Amber system of the Wood Elves?

[@brentonherbert7775]

@@AliothAncalagon Oooh look. Someone with no better argument than "You're wrong now cope" Tell you what... how about you start with what you ACTUALLY dislike about it? Or anything actually because so far all you've done is cry without supplying any justifiable reason which is incredibly funny lmao.