The Dwarfs Can Build TALL | Patch 5.2 | The Deep New Mechanic Analysis

An overview of the new deep mechanic! To set you up for success in your next dwarf campaign.
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[@alertedcoyote7892]

Dwarfs are now the tallest faction, ironically

[@mso2013]

Well better that than cheating with tall hats like the Chaos Dwarfs.

[@Aphoti_K]

Mountain dwelling for the win.

[@thorveim1174]

Acceptable. No groodges.

[@BananenbaumEY]

tallest faction are still chaos dwarfs, but nice try.

[@legiohysterius4624]

No THE DEEPEST

[@TheUnlucky101]

I play almost exclusively Dwarfs. Thank. You. Creative. Assembly. God it's good to see they're back.

[@TheGuyWhoIsNeverMad]

Same. What about a second rework?

[@BBrown-cn3zk]

Me too

[@j0hncarp]

Back from what? They had the most recent DLC, they had the most added features besides empire perhaps, they have, objectively, some of the best units in-game. They were always on top

[@kacpadestro8086]

Rock and Stone!

[@EnanoGeologo]

Yeah, the same, kazukan khazakit-ha!

[@drfox633]

dwarfs now having so many unique features is nice

[@excursor4296]

Down in the deep Where the dragon used to sleep Glorious gold Glimmers in our home of old Dark as the night Where the day has lost its light When the hammer falls

[@memyselfandi432]

A man of culture. Always good to see a Clamavi de Profundis reference in the wild.

[@TrustedSmokie8829]

Dawi of culture still walk these lands I see.

[@BaronVonMott]

I think that decision about moving the capital to Eight Peaks is primarily aimed at anyone playing Belegar, since the quest to reclaim his ancestral home is the central idea of his faction. Still, it's a neat little detail!

[@sockysol9599]

lorewise 8 peaks was the hub central for the underway

[@simonnachreiner8380]

It's pointless. Your capital doesn't do anything in Warhammer. In past total war titles your capital was essential as it's where all your trade went to and from. Now it's essentially cosmetic, doesn't even boost control.

[@TheDeadEye13]

​@@simonnachreiner8380 the sweet little capital icon is worth iy alone!

[@Malachii_186]

​@@simonnachreiner8380but its fun lol

[@honorguard7616]

@@simonnachreiner8380 anything in WH3 , had purpose in TW WH2

[@hsuanhunglin5385]

「The Dwarves delved too greedily and too deep, you know what they have awoken...」

[@leonfriedemann9151]

I hope some day vampires will get as cool mechanics aswell 😅

[@Merknilash]

Vampires and Bretonnia are the two factions I want to see get updates the most

[@Matt-sk6hi]

@@Merknilash True!! Peasant eco is just boring. The only thing cool about vamps are their heroes. And Zombietide.

[@tehchief1]

@@Merknilashand the monkeys

[@DIY_Miracle]

​@@MerknilashLizardmen too. Web mechanics are a bit of a joke

[@Grumbaki]

I love this update so much. Playing a campaign where I have deeps in Karaz-a-Karak and Karak Eight Peaks. They finally feel like huge holds that go deep underground. It’s amazing. Best patch!

[@tempestgrav]

This is cool and flavourful as not every faction is a continent spanning empire machine (at least aboveground 😉). Something like this could work for WE and maybe HE as they are historically very low population.

[@rpscorp9457]

Tall tree cities.

[@tucanonerd4957]

We NEED a way to "declare" the Age of Reckonings now, and the Dwarfs are pretty much perfect. Just let us PICK when to start our agression phase, and the faction is as near to perfection as I could have hoped.

[@dylanbayone5144]

Never going to happen. It makes no sense from a lore perspective and significantly cheapens the mechanic. If you struggle with the game/aor just mod it to make it easier and function how you like.

[@tucanonerd4957]

It makes COMPLETE sense from a lore perspective. Dwarfs are not living under a constant Age of Reckoning. That's why most of them still prefer to lock themselves up in their holds. A mass military campaign of conquest is what makes 0 sense lorewise. And no, I don't struggle with the game. Warhammer 3 is easier then any other Total War title, and it is also easier then any other RTS or 4X game. It is a matter of faction flavour and fun. Age of Reckoning as it is, is either an ignored or a detractive mechanic because there is 0 player agency. If you could simply PICK when to start an age of Reckoning, most of it's issues would dissapear. @@dylanbayone5144

[@honorguard7616]

Well you can now pause it or let you use more grudge settlers

[@christianweibrecht6555]

Now I must decide between a Kadrin or Malikai campaign

[@Andrewza1]

Maliki air ship means you can play Tall put still fly arround with his army razing all those that need there name removed

[@XiaosaGaming]

Nothing stands taller than the might of the dwarves!

[@cheeseofultimatedoom]

It's a shame they don't have the 'delving too deep' mechanic where they unleash some awful subterranean beasts/rats/dragon after becoming too greedy.

[@leeboy26]

Yeah I was a bit dissapointed by that.

[@jamesespinosa690]

I'm glad they denied the meme lords their childish impulses. Let LotR be LotR, and Warhammer being Warhammer. Not everything has to have "member-berries" in it.

[@Mango-cp1im]

@@jamesespinosa690 what even is this sentence lmao

[@PingachuWarham]

@@jamesespinosa690 But that is actually a very warhammer thing, it's a world filled with all kinds of horrors wherever you look (and it's main inspiration is lotr anyways)

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@PingachuWarham Yeh, no thanks. I'm tired of meme's. Let's try and be a little bit original please. And if you actually stop and think for 2 seconds. How exactly would this event play out? 1 Balrog? So what, a Greater Deamon of Khorne? It's not that strong or scary. It's going to get btfo by a garrison.

[@genghiskhan6809]

Now I want to see what happens when a settlement has a dwarfen deeps, pirate cove, wood elf outpost, and skaven den all at once.

[@thatoneguyinthecomments2633]

Was messing around just to see what was changed but didn't read the description of the +5% per turn building correctly, so built it last around turn 80ish. Settlement income jumped from 900ish to over 4k. Immediately built one at Mt gunbad and it rakes in over 10k per turn around turn 100. I have like 20k income off 2 provinces and they're by no means optimized.

[@hunterkillerai]

I want a building is major settlements that allow us to field a garrison that is larger than 20 units.

[@Krachbumm-Ente]

This new addition to the game is absolutely game breaking. i just finished my Dawi campaign and had roughly 17 fullstack armies and a whopping income of 112.000 by turn 110. You can't even do anything with the money anymore. I declared war on Grimgor just for fun and the Ai was so intimidated by me that he offered peace just the turn after. Playing on VH/VH by the way. The characters become unkillable monsters with the correct items and runes as well, I tried to fulfill the grudge where you have to build that vampire tomb thingy and defeat multible fullstack armies full of t4-5 monsters and Ungrim just massacred each and every one of them within seconds. The game became too easy

[@user-dh7jo6cy9o]

deeps also reduce upkeep, I have a feeling they are more than a little bit overpowered and aid a wide gameplay as well, enabling you to build lots of massive armies and take new territories, and build them up for almost free, and build new deeps to get new trade(and continue towards the 0 upkeep, which because of supply lines requires an additional margin) pump the elite armies through the underway or just the tunneling stance towards the front and you will win(always build the recruitment centers in the underway spots, they typically are secure and you can move your high tier armies as soon as you finished them to the other end of the karaz ankor(obviously there are recruitment centers at that end as well, but you will still double the ready to respond force))

[@masaheimoi]

If you build the buildings that give you +5% more money from buildings factionwide, and the building that reduces upkeep and constructiln cost by 2% you can get very very silly with deeps in the endgame. Having your money buildings with +600% more money, and your elite unit armies with upkeep of 2000 gold makes dwarfs hilariously the most skaven faction in terms of being endless tide of armies to overwhelm any enemy.

[@Tentacl]

Finally they get it, we need more interesting unique traits to races! This is a big step in the right direction.

[@TalosLordOfNight]

I would be extremely interested in a video that shows if it’s possible to build a chaos cult, a undercity and the deep all in the same settlement .

[@AmazonianBawlls]

Don't forget the pirate cove, trickster cult, and oxyotl's sanctums

[@Trident121]

Sounded exactly as the high king for a moment

[@SuperMrFriendly]

make game more easy is what game needs. its jawn

[@neildeeley4177]

1000 growth on turn 30 !?

[@AlexanderLambert-pq2iy]

Finally dwarves are proper dwarves. So far they they did not feel fleshed out

[@txsicshooter]

Dude they really cranked up the Legendary Diff. Turn 18 as Thorgrim and Queek shows up at Kraza-a -Krak with 7 full stacks. Not skaven slaves either. Mostly Stormvermin. Nutty.

[@someguy1ification]

... That sounds like you had the endgame crisis trigger on turn ten.

[@mrgermanvono35]

​@someguy1ification nah I've noticed this too. AI spam out stacks really fast and upgrade them fast

[@Odin2077]

For me in very hard diff, in turn 20 grimgor to me for Speedrun my destruction with his 3 full armies with WAAAAAG!!!!

[@txsicshooter]

@@someguy1ification Nope not endgame. Legendary diff spawns many more stacks now. Endgame is now a repeating cycle on legendary. Had several spawns between turn 115 and turn 170.

[@Malachii_186]

Good it was to easy

[@xzardas541]

We could have aditional map layer of "underroads" similar to what age of wonders has to make gobos and dorfs less painfully boring of a faction but nope here you have aditional building tab for cities.

[@landonsorenson9278]

I am tired of other factions having better under-cities than the skaven. Dwarves having good undercities make sense, but chaos and the fucking empire having better undercities is ridiculous

[@honorguard7616]

If it helps, the empire ones to my knowledge are limited, both in number and who gets them Chaos requires manually spreading them and only the dedicated factions get them

[@user-dh7jo6cy9o]

there is a point where the great gate only costs a decree, and no gold( tech+ornate gates+other buildings) at all

[@jacawandersmok9043]

A deep dive A deeep analisys ;]

[@jjoohhnn6065]

Weird idea, what if when you dug deep in zhar nagrund you have a chance of becoming corrupted by hashut, causing a chaos dwarf rebellion

[@user-dh7jo6cy9o]

cool, or just have that happen in general when there is chaos corruption, no more chaos undivided, no just chaos dwarf corruption for chaos dwarfs and dwarfs)

[@jamesespinosa690]

You haven't played Chaos Dwarves have you?? They literally have a big drill unique building. They are digging down to release Hashut already.

[@jjoohhnn6065]

@@jamesespinosa690 I was talking about as regular dwarfs with the deeps system not chorfs

[@jamesespinosa690]

@@jjoohhnn6065 Ohhhhhhhhh!!! Ok, I'll retract my statement!!! My bad.

[@ManCheat2]

it took a long time for the dwarfs to get corrutped by Hashut, so its unlikely for them to get corrupted. More likely for the Chorfs to drill into them.

[@LynxLord1991]

Tall you mean we can dig ever deep

[@PicklednSalted]

Short no more!

[@ForeverTributesNL]

Does the underground travel system work now once the legendary grudge has been settled? For me it was bugged and it kept me from playing Dwarves.

[@honorguard7616]

Dwarfs, don't be a Elgi

[@awanderer7132]

The mechanic in practice is inefficient, as instead of pouring resources into these buildings u could instead upgrade settlements and recruitment to unlock higher tiers and advance your armies which you'll need for late game Grudge missions If the Deeps had better immediate payout theyd be worth investing in the mid game instead of more armies to keep up your military

[@christopherhayes1369]

I think it's more of a thematic choice rather than power gaming

[@lennypanier712]

Depends on the play style, i play very slowly and as Thorgrim I am at +27k per turn with 2 provinces at turn 50 and my settlements are all maxed out

[@user-dh7jo6cy9o]

the deeps reduce upkeep and give income, so if you manage to reduce cost through traits or techs(pretty easy) you can invest it in the deeps, and the thing that keeps armies floating and costs money is upkeep and money over time, so as long as the armies stay in the positive, it shouldn’t really interfere that much

[@user-zh1hz1gq1l]

Still gonna play insanely aggressively but yes this is a very nice update

[@melo7038]

Would've appreciated seeing this in a non-cheated savefile to see how viable it is

[@Battleseyttv]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/kKCogJacrJWcsJY in a this is total war I still use it as it's awesome!

[@melo7038]

@@Battleseyttv Cheers for linking. Will watch. Tall Dwarfs like god intended.

[@Battleseyttv]

@@melo7038 No worries buddy, I usually use growth modifiers to demonstrate the mechanics easier :D at the end of the video I give demonstration of what to do too!

[@Krachbumm-Ente]

It is extremly powerful to say the absolute very least

[@melo7038]

@@Battleseyttv Update. Tried this out with 4 provinces and blew the economy open 50 turns in. Thorgrim now wipes his arse with gold leaf notes

[@JamesFordMusic]

Noticed foreign slot income ?

[@paula.827]

I don't really know how to stay defensive as a dwarf. I mainly use Malakai 😂. 1st using high king oh its so hard for me to stay 3 province or 4 but my income is 20k im rich but also i lose that game queek rat kill me with his 5 army but love it the deep❤❤❤

[@Lokv1]

Dwarfs are now tall. TALL???

[@EveloGrave]

It says tall, but it doesn't feel tall enough imo. Ogres are pretty equal in terms of tallness.

[@giorgaras1851]

They still make a pathetic amount of gold from their gem cutters and gold mines while their default money making building costing 2x more and making half the gold.

[@Daemon861]

Can dwarfs dig too deep now?

[@Husavarman]

Why the tallest? Is it because they build deep underground😢😢😢

[@CryoCare]

Dwarf accent is very fun to do. I also annoy people with it. Makes dwarf streams and vids unwatchable lol.

[@sirrenface9755]

Really bad way To showcase them He forgot you can now lower upkeep To almost nothing with the new building i have 60 turns and many armies and still earning a lot of gold per turn

[@HomerJSimpson999]

CA and balancing, never becoming friends. Dwarfs now have unlimited money...

[@BNOBLE981]

Those repurposed guild foundries, -2% construction cost and unit upkeep faction wide, so if I build 50 of them across my Dawi empire, I get free buildings and free unit upkeep? no way that doesn't get a nerf.

[@yomuashia7627]

... if you can build 50 of them why do you need free upkeep the game is already over lmfao.

[@BNOBLE981]

@@yomuashia7627 I like to take my time building up my empire and for factions I truly enjoy I go on to at least attempt to conquer the entire map on occasion, campaign is only over when you start to get bored or a patch breaks the save.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

Reductions to build and recruitment cost are multiplicative not additive. Upkeep however is absolutely additive as any Orion player will never shut up about.

[@mewple]

​@@simonnachreiner8380 unless they changed it recently, reductions to anything is and has always been additive not multiplicative. There are many factions with hero and lord traits(like the dwarves) where you can reduce building costs, recruitment costs and upkeep costs to nil.

[@rpscorp9457]

@@mewple ^ this...or next to nothing which is honestly the same thing.

[@shagrath4951]

As if dwars werent broken enough ?

[@paulovinasrocha6166]

strong, not broken.

[@shagrath4951]

@@paulovinasrocha6166 I mean it boils down to personal taste but sure as hell its borderline broken if played right which is not case for all races but well everybody to their own right ?

[@MrGeorge102]

are y on drugs bro? since when darwi were broken? chaos dwarves are stronger than dwarves

[@shagrath4951]

@@MrGeorge102 I see people missing the subtle point are here in large numbers so ok, let me spell it out. There are factions that needed rework much more than dwarfs yet they got rework before them and now we give them even more to build their powerhouse. On the other hand you have stuff like vampire coast, ogres or even bretonia in desperate need of rework. All I am saying is, dwarfs were very much playable to the point of being one of the best factions but got rework among first. Got it now ?

[@redcrown5154]

@@shagrath4951 the dwarfs were awful before the rework tho

[@kevak1236]

How can they build tall if they're going underground, just wondering 😉

[@bonkoulrewiew]

They discovered that since they cannot be that tall above ground, they will be tall in the negative height

[@TheWhiteDragon3]

'Tis a matter of perspective, Umgi! Thattaway [points down] is UP!

[@user-dh7jo6cy9o]

if a tower stands on a field, it is tall right, if you now take a field with a hole in which the tower fits and is twice as high as, and you put it in there, the tower has not shrunk

[@VainEldritch]

My beard itches... there's trouble about!