How To ACTUALLY Get Stronger Fingers // Dr. Tyler Nelson

[@jean-baptistejourjon4024]

I've been climbing for >35 years and I've always been stronger at climbing when I was stronger at campusing and fingerboarding. This speech may be valid for those who have NO technique and do more fingerborad than real climbing, or for those whose fingers are not a weakness, but for all the other climbers that represent the majority, finger board makes real benefit by recruiting specific muscles. I also got more injuries on real climb where grips are not always ergonomic and where it's less structured.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

In the full interview (podcast) Tyler lays out a few ways for experienced climbers to train fingers that may be MORE effective than heavy hangs on a boat. Check it out!

[@jean-baptistejourjon4024]

​@@thestruggleclimbingshowon a boat 😂

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

@@jean-baptistejourjon4024😂. *board

[@Max_Alive]

to train fingers on a boat is especially unspecific for climbing.@@jean-baptistejourjon4024

[@jordanrobinson9535]

Yeah I kind of disagree with what's said in this video. The best I've ever climbed was after lockdowns when I spent the whole lockdown period doing weighted repeaters, pullups, ab work, and max hangs. The gym I frequented reopened with all the same climbs they had set beforehand and I was absolutely cruising the 12s that before I had no business on. I was even starting to make progress on a 13a when before I couldn't even start the route. For me it was the perfect experiment, if gyms weren't closed I would never have committed 6mo to pure training. Coming back I felt like I had vise grips for fingers.

[@AllPsychBouldering]

I got a shoulder injury and was only able to train by pulling off the ground on a tension block and it absolutely translated to my strength on the wall when I came back, like immediately. Fingerboarding isn't going to make you a better climber but it will absolutely get you stronger.

[@kylegary8662]

Was glad to see this overly simplistic and bold take get completely shut down in the comments.

[@Duderos]

I just listened to almost the whole interview and man that was exhausting ... what I got ouf it his endless ramblings: 10 second hangs are not for strength, but less second hangs are (for how many seconds I can't recall, he didn't say something specific) ookay ... I have a headache now

[@drumsnotdead1]

A lot of jargon with basically zero specific protocols makes this a confusing video.

[@Ninjamonkey474]

Appreciate the perspective by Tyler, but a lot of this goes against what most other professional athletes have said. (1) “If you were to just stop climbing and only [fingerboard], the ability to transfer that to rock climbing would be zero, waste of time.” For most climbers though, finger boarding is just supplemental to climbing. Will Bosi as one example will finger board 2-3 times a week and also climb on those days, and he’s seen incredible success that he hadn’t just by climbing. Does this advice change in a scenario like this? If so it frankly feels like a straw man since almost nobody will be finger boarding in isolation. (2) “The minimum edge protocol should be done on a climbing wall, not a finger board.” I think the reason most use a finger board to supplement climbing is because you can maximally load your fingers in a way that you can’t on the wall (3) “For someone who has a big climbing history ... continuing to use a finger board makes little sense." That's the opposite of what Dave MacLeod has said. As an 8b climber he found finger boarding to be the most useful way to climb harder sport routes. I would expect more evidence from Tyler and more pushback on his claims before we just accept his dismissal of most professional's training plans. I totally agree that the best way to get better at climbing is to go climbing, and that should be hammered home to newer climbers, but at higher levels we have seen the best climbers in the world using finger boarding and see results.

[@nathanielwoodbury2692]

yeah he kinda is making some crazy claims

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

I appreciate the thoughtful perspective here. Recommend you listen to the full podcast episode, linked in the description, where Tyler has more time to go in depth on the research and conclusions we highlight in this short clip. I’ve also got a full length episode with Dave MacLeod coming out soon, and will be sharing some of those clips to the channel coming up. Lots of great scientific minds trying to help us all level up!

[@davidbecker54]

Please note, I have read many of Tyler's articles and watched a lot of Tyler's content. While I do appreciate anyone who puts in the effort to push climbing training forward, we shouldn't disregard the fact that much of his claims are based on anecdotal evidence, not true scientific studies (granted most climbing training research is still in that phase, including much of MacLeod's). He does use others' scientific studies to produce hypotheses, but ultimately until he has tested these theories out in a true scientific manner, the claims are not 100% valid. I think a lot of people get upset by the manner in which he presents these "findings", because there's a feeling of him looking down on anyone who doesn't believe/questions what he says (I'm not the only one who has expressed this BTW). That said, are the claims worth considering, absolutely! As well, it's hard to disregard other anecdotal evidence from so many strong climbers in recent history. If you spend a lot of time listening to climbing podcasts, there is always a common theme when talking about how someone got so strong. And that usually involves (but is not limited to) spending consistent time on a hangboard. I'd be curious to hear if anyone knows someone who's gotten very strong without the use of a hangboard or some other isolated grip strength tool/protocol.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

It’s definitely an attention grabbing headline, and there’s some nuance that Tyler goes into in the video, but much deeper in the podcast interview. No doubt one can get stronger on a hangboard, but I believe what he’s proposing, is that if you are an advanced climber, you may risk injury in getting stronger on a hangboard, compared to using other tools to get stronger. But hang board can always be part of the tool kit, especially as it comes to building tendon stiffness. This conversation was focused on muscular finger strength more so than tendons But again, there’s a lot more context in the full podcast. Thanks for the thoughtful perspectives!

[@andrewwebber421]

@@davidbecker54agree, it’s difficult to find a top climber who doesn’t use a hang board. I understood that the specific benefit is so that you can target specific improvements in a measurable way. This also hopefully almost eliminates the injury issue. Eg you work out your max hangs and use that as the reference to progress, making sure you load enough to get measurable improvements over time but not over load to injure. The idea is you can add or take off weight to target the right intensity to improve whether you are trying to go for one handed hangs or push max strength etc

[@voonhow5864]

Lol 0 transferability? I understand if you said its not the most efficient but 0?

[@Dom-fk3te]

Gotta disagree with Tyler on his opening comments cos I did his simple hangboard program a month before going back to the climbing wall after lockdown and it was extremely applicable to climbing. I was as strong as I was before covid even though I hadnt climbed in two years

[@c4hp.]

This first is sensationalizing my comment (not intended). It simply means, as anyone would agree, that you need to climb more than finger train to get your finger strength gains to transfer to climbing. I'm not suggesting at all that isolated finger training doesn't work, because it does. But you still have to spend time projecting and grabbing holds to get the transfer. In addition, the time away from climbing during your lock down significantly increased your recovery time between sessions. A drop in volume and increase in intensity would absolutely jump your finger strength. That's no surprise, and I total would agree with that. But you still have to climb to use that strength. That's my intention with that comment.

[@Dom-fk3te]

@@c4hp. Fair play I was being a bit awkward/sarcastic and putting the audio in context of your reply I've obviously misunderstood what you meant. I was also of course happy with the results of the program during lockdown especially as I had zero equipment, so thanks for the work you do.

[@emileboudreau6711]

So if hang boarding doesn't get you stronger what does? And don't say climb more. Yes we would all love to climb more but a person can only spend X amount of time at the gym before skin and life gets in the way.

[@cramzable]

The argument Nelson makes is that getting stronger fingers for rock climbing is not only improving connective tissue stiffness but also learning to coordinate your fingers and fast-twitch muscle fibers that you don't exercise with a hangboard. I highly recommend watching the video to get an answer to your question lol

[@emileboudreau6711]

I did watch the video.

[@cramzable]

@@emileboudreau6711 good! I hope you found it helpful!

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Yes, you can get stronger on a fingerboard, or using any number of other protocols. But transferring it to the wall takes time and coordination that only come with Climbing. So it’s more of a wholistic approach, and he goes into it in much more depth in the full podcast episode, linked in the description. Hope it helps!

[@ercle88]

In my early 20s I used to climb four days a week. I had almost no commitments and believed climbing was the best training for climbing. My fingers were always kind of tweaky so I had to tape up almost all the time, and my full crimp strength was completely disproportionate to my open hand strength. Slopers were impossible. When responsibilities hit I had to take about a decade off, I'm now mid 30s with two children, and back climbing. I get two sessions a week (one of those is actually taking my young daughter climbing, so very unfocused and more about her) so most of my training is done off the wall out of necessity. I'm stronger and more well rounded than I ever used to be! Even with less time to dedicate, doing fingerboarding and weighted pull ups have had a HUGE impact on my climbing ability - more so than climbing alone would have in the same number of hours. The only finger injury I've received since coming back to climbing has been when actually climbing (I slipped off with my fingers in a sharp two finger pocket) and fingerboarding helped rehabilitate and get me climbing again quicker. I would have once agreed wholeheartedly with the sentiment in this video, after all it makes perfect sense, but in my experience climbing ISN'T necessarily the best use of time to get better at climbing.

[@JMD2023Capstone]

he is a chiropractor, not a physician, not even a DPT

[@SaltyTofu]

That’s a red flag before even starting to talk

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

He’s an expert in climbing injuries and finger physiology. Check his credentials and experience.

[@christophhaupt7827]

yes but obviously we are not talking about Injuries or the finger physiology ... we are talking about strength recruitment and training adaptation ... and everyone can hear that he is clearly no expert on this topic .... so why is he talking about it and spreading false information.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Finger physiology, strength, recruitment… He is a foremost expert in the whole space. He works with elite athletes, some of the strongest in the world, you don’t have to do what he’s saying, but he certainly deserves respect, and there are a whole lot of climbers out there who are much stronger and healthier for listening to him. I’m one of them.

[@christophhaupt7827]

@@thestruggleclimbingshow Ok! Thx for the quick Response ... i was maybe a little to hard in him

[@abichau5392]

Imma beginner climber and been climbing a couple of times. When I started fingerboarding, my finger strength improve significantly! I was quite shocked and I can really see the improvement even after a few sessions on the gym

[@Fuzzira]

So hanging on wood has no meaningful transfer to hanging on plastic or stone. Gotcha!

[@pintospirits]

Sorry this just isn't true. Training past injuries finger shoulder or in a friends case a broken ankle from a fall. Grip work is a massive help

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

For sure. He isn’t saying that you shouldn’t train fingers. It’s the methodology that he’s focusing on. There might be better ways to train than what’s most common at this moment. Check out the full podcast for more context 💪

[@whywhenwhere4377]

Fingerboard hangs definitely transfer strength and that’s a no brainier.

[@samhartfieldlewis5247]

That was interesting, latching holds quickly all different shapes, angles and sizes is important. I think the thing is don’t over do any of it, stay within your zone of not getting injured and repeat it. Takes ages and ages for tendons and bits n bobs the improvements. Nice one go steady Sam.

[@gratengelsker7614]

How does it make sense? Like if you climb while doing fingerboard training the body automatically thinks the fingerboard training is more climbing specific?

[@paulogryzek4740]

My experience would directly and unequivocally contradict this whole video. I took 6 weeks off from climbing and only performed hand, finger and arm pulling exercises. I climbed higher grades within 10 days of returning to the climbing gym.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Great to hear! It’s not that hangboard doesn’t work…it’s that there might be an even more effective way to train fingers. I just did a long podcast on this called Finger Training 2.0 if you want to check it out 💪

[@Hoause-qh7tx]

Gee reading all the comments below does make me wonder. Listened to the blurb and it made total sense to me, I thought it was a great presentation thank you.

[@arinayuuu]

"that's a bad explanation for using an exercise, bc it's not the sport". WELL, IT'S AN EXERCISE FOR THE SPORT. hanging is part of climbing. i just remembered ryuichi murai sending "floatin" (v16) where there's a lot of hanging. so if fingerboarding isn't related to climbing we climbers are doing everything wrong. and i guess no climber stop climbing to fingerboard as sport. "i make the argument to a lot of ppl that fingerboading is probably the best way to do that for someone that's new to climbing" alex honnold is probably new to climbing according to Dr. Nelson. he did, according to Ollie Torr, "heavy loads, regular fingers strength training" before going solo in El Captain. i imagine if Dr. Nelson was the one doing Alex's training protocols... i talk things like these when drink too much tea...

[@kybishop]

Tyler's actual actionable advice for how to get stronger fingers here is virtually non-existent. Deeply disappointed in Dr Nelson's ability to communicate actionable advice here. People like the hangboarding protocols because they ACTIONABLE. What the heck is the actual program Dr. Nelson advocates for following here?? I've watched the video twice and I'll I've gotten out of it is, for stronger climbers "hangboard bad, don't do" 😑🤦

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Hangboard not necessarily bad - rather, other protocols potentially better. Sorry you didn’t get much out of this one. Listen to the full interview and I think it’ll be much clearer, as he does lay out various protocols and options over the course of that 90 min chat (whenever you listen to podcasts). Thanks for your comment!

[@Duderos]

I just listened to almost the whole interview and man that was exhausting ... what I got ouf it this endless ramblings: 10 second hangs are not for strength, but less second hangs are (for how many seconds I can't recall, he said something specific) ookay ... I have a headache now

[@robertobreve8623]

Is it his opinion or does he have data on this?

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Lots of data. Check out the full podcast episode for more context.

[@robertobreve8623]

Lattice training guys have data too and say finger strength correlates to climbing hard

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

@@robertobreve8623 I talk with Tom Randall every month (lots of videos with him on this channel). Yes, finger strength has a correlation to climbing performance. But, the way one obtains that strength and transfers it to the wall matters. That's the focus of this episode with Tyler (listen to the full podcast interview for all the context and data). I think you'll find it interesting, and hopefully it sparks some fun new ideas on how to structure your training!

[@DG8178]

He uses plenty of jargon, which makes the video hard to follow. It would be great to have this info simplified for those without Dr.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Check out the full podcast interview I did with him- I force him to dumb it down for me 😅

[@PhilHoyt]

Yeah, I wish Tyler would use language other could follow.

[@justinsmith3981]

I mostly just use a fingerboard to help warm up.

[@christophhaupt7827]

Climbing for more then 12 years ... the best climbing/highest grades and most overall success (in Bouldering and Lead) was in time periods where i did more Hangboard or heavy lifts on small edges .... So to say it doesnt translate to climbing is simply false ... i wonder what else is wrong what the guy is telling where i dont have the personal experience... Every World Class Athlete in this Sport does finger Strengh/Max hangs/finger board to be able to compete at this level ... why would they do if it doesnt work or translate ... he is talking crap sorry!

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

I think you might have misunderstood his point. He was saying that if all we did was hang board, it wouldn’t translate, because Climbing is a movement/skill sport. So it doesn’t make sense to get strong without also applying that strength with proper movement. In terms of training strong fingers, there are many ways to do that and heavy weight on a hangboard is one, but perhaps not even the best, way to accomplish building strong fingers to get them to translate to climbing. More context in the full podcast episode, as well as over on his KZbin channel.

[@suede__]

@@thestruggleclimbingshow It's impossible to understand the point when the statement includes "it will not translate".

[@suede__]

This condensed video clearly created more confusion and trouble for the guest than is really worth it. Huge absolute statements that are false, but may be hyperbole (or maybe just not useful as nobody _only_ hangboards), along with no suggestions for alternative protocols just made for a frustrating video and a clearly frustrated comment section. Also the video doesn't actually tell you _how_ to actually get stronger fingers, just opinions and what doesn't.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Yeah, I don’t really disagree with any of this. I could’ve done a much better job editing this to better represent what we talked about, but the conversation was quite dense and really the best way to get the full perspective is to listen to the podcast episode.

[@101deepak101]

Thanks for this ! Out of interest what about if you can't climb for whatever reason - is hang boarding beneficial then or still no? (I hope so because a back injury means I can't climb at the moment but I can hang - and have been hanging !).

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Yes, for sure still beneficial. But it might take some time to take those adaptations and transfer them to the wall with coordination. That’s basically what Tyler is saying here, and in the full podcast episode, there’s even more context. Hope you feel better soon!

[@zacharylaschober]

Tyler is not saying the hangboard is useless, more this is not the strength training intervention folks think over intentional climbing. However, if injured then hangs would be better than nothing, though be mindful about how to actually structure this for the adaptation desired.

[@101deepak101]

Thanks that makes sense @@thestruggleclimbingshow

[@101deepak101]

Thanks@@zacharylaschober

[@randyduane5370]

This guy makes a plethora of sweeping statements. I view their extreme nature suspect. Not that he isn’t partially correct but let’s knock off the polar statements.

[@SirCharcoal]

This video is pretty unclear and goes against most of the advice I've heard. Hangboarding is the best injury prevention you can do for your fingers, but the guy in this video says that it's more dangerous than limit bouldering

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

The guy in the video is an expert on finger injuries. His main point is that there’s safer and more effective ways of training fingers than hanging super heavy loads on them. More context in the full podcast episode if you’d like to geek out over it 💪

[@Sepp2009]

6:56 what are excercises to recruit fast twitch muscle fibres in the fingers? campus boarding?

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Jump and catch. Moonboard type stuff. Quick pulls on a board. Tyler did an entire Pro Clinic episode on this for the pod, Finger Power, but it’s only available to patrons. There’s a free 30-min section on all platforms tho. Would love the support if you’d like to join the community for a month and check it out. Lots of great content there to help level up. Patreon.com/thestruggleclimbingshow 🙌💪

[@emilholck87]

@@thestruggleclimbingshow which is fun, because while I agree that board climbing is really powerful, it is much more taxing on the joints and fingers compared to fingerboarding… the whole point of fingerboarding is being able to load close to maximally without risking exploding your joints and fingers… thanks, but I think I will stick to mcleods fingerboard routine ;)

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

@@emilholck87 Time and place for all tools, and definitely follow what you're psyched on. In the full podcast chat with Tyler, he explains that heavy loading on a finger board can actually be riskier than other forms of strength training when it comes to advanced climbers because the weights are so high and the eccentric load is hard to gauge in terms of RPE / failure. Worth a listen if you're interested in more context. Hope your training is going great! Btw, Dave MacLeod is an upcoming guest so keep an eye out for those videos and full pod interview soon!

[@MartinDlabaja]

Naaah. Not true. Hanging from a small edge is not specific to climbing? BS! Hangboarding really helped me a it is easy to notice it did.

[@DinoTamer23]

I can attest from experience the opening statement he makes in this video is complete BS. Because the best summer I had on real rock was after a 6 week sesh of nothing but handboarding.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

Glad to hear it’s working for you! I think Tyler’s point (in more detail on the full podcast) is that there are other methodologies that are showing to be more effective than heavy hangs. I’ve been mixing in some of his suggestions and really liking the results.

[@DidiJones-rt1pq]

Don’t listen to this man . Fingerboards work .

[@johannielsen463]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

I’m vegetarian

[@cramzable]

Wow, this was fascinating. Thank you for your content!

[@thestruggleclimbingshow]

I appreciate the support! If you have a second, it would mean a lot for you to rate/review the podcast over on Apple and Spotify if you feel it is providing value. There’s also a ton of exclusive content over on Patreon if you’d like to geek out over training. Lots of pro clinics on various topics as taught by pros such as Tyler Nelson, Ravioli Biceps, Jordan Cannon, Alex Johnson, Dru Mack, etc. 💪💪 patreon.com/thestruggleclimbingshow

[@LibsMakeMeSad]

Dude is covertly arrogant as hell.

[@tomjohnson-ix3qc]

and? is he wrong?