How to Be Clear on the Flavian Theory, Rod Blackhirst, PhD

[@carlchoi6047]

This is awesome. While doing my own research, I always got a strong feeling that someone had concocted the Jesus story and attached it to Judaism for political reasons; for reasons of manipulating & controlling the ignorant. It's really great to find that there are people who are investigating this so well.

[@PsilliPig]

it's 2018. Waaaay past time for us to be dismissing the legitimacy of any and all religious corporate spiritualism. Time to wake the hell up.

[@whitenightf3]

It does not take a genius to work out that Christendom was the chosen vehicle to spread the Roman Empire. In the immortal words of Philip K. Dick: "The Empire never died." When I first read that I had to smile because that is the exact same conclusion I had come to and its always nice to feel validated by someone that well read.

[@chadalan1259]

***** moron

[@whitenightf3]

chad alan I know you are. LOL

[@sagerider2]

+whitenightf3 Clarky Clark has a series on this.

[@ploopploop9569]

The Roman empire existed before Christianity...

[@lavonn188]

Well what ppl need to do is take off the lens of who taught u and realize that anybody who really reads information would see that this thesis cannot be trustworthy

[@Kumite_Champ1988]

One of my first initial thoughts after realizing the Bible and my faith wasn’t true was, this is some form of control. It’s was a very eerie moment that I’ll never forget. People are being controlled.

[@VulcanJedi2006]

@equalism 42 so then what is your next step? kill the believers? lol! then we are back to square one----and people will go on killing regardless of religion

[@VulcanJedi2006]

@equalism 42 Okay--but the truth is-=-people fight, nations, tyrants happen under secular governments. Actually, it looks like it's as bad, if not worse for the places where they tried to eliminate religion. Because, really, what they are trying to eliminate it hope, faith and beliefs--you can't do that.

[@القرآنالآن]

Yhwh/Allah says 🌹🌺💐Quran17 🌺🍊🌴💐🌹 Verily, this Qur'ân guides to that which is most just and right and gives glad tidings to the believers who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a great reward (Paradise). (9) And that those who believe not in the Hereafter, for them We (God) have prepared a painful torment (Hell). (10) And man invokes (God/Allâh/Yahweh) for evil as he invokes (Him) for good . And man is ever hasty (11) And We have appointed the night and the day as two signs. Then, We have obliterated the sign of the night while We have made the sign of the day illuminating, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the reckoning. And We have explained everything (in detail) with full explanation. (12) And We have fastened every man's deeds to his neck. And on the Day of Resurrection, We shall bring out for him a book which he will find wide open. (13) (It will be said to him): "Read your book. You yourself are sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day." (14) Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). (15) And when We decide to destroy a town (population), We (first) send a definite order (to obey Allâh/God/Yahweh and be righteous) to those among them who lead a life of luxury. Then, they transgress therein, and thus the word (of torment) is justified against it (them). Then We destroy it with complete destruction (16) And how many generations have We destroyed after Noah! And Sufficient is your Lord as an All-Knower and All-Beholder of the sins of His servants. (17) Whoever desires the quick-passing (transitory enjoyment of this world), We readily grant him what We will for whom We like. Then, afterwards, We have appointed for him Hell, he will burn therein disgraced and rejected, (18) And whoever desires the Hereafter and strives for it, with the necessary effort due for it (i.e. righteous deeds ) while he is a believer , then such are the ones whose striving shall be appreciated, (thanked and rewarded by Allâh/God/Yahweh). (19) On - each these as well as those - We bestow from the Bounties of your Lord. And the Bounties of your Lord can never be forbidden. (20) See how We prefer one above another (in this world) and verily, the Hereafter will be greater in degrees and greater in preference (21) Set not up with Allâh/Yahweh/God any other god, (O man)! , or you will sit down reproved, forsaken (in the Hell-fire). (22) And your Lord has decreed that you worship none but Him. And that you be dutiful to your parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age in your life, say not to them a word of disrespect, nor shout at them but address them in terms of honour. (23) And lower unto them the wing of submission and humility through mercy, and say: "My Lord! Bestow on them Your Mercy as they did bring me up when I was young." (24) Your Lord knows best what is in your inner-selves. If you are righteous, then, verily, He is Ever Most Forgiving to those who turn unto Him again and again in obedience, and in repentance. (25) And give to the kinsman his due and to the poor and to the wayfarer. But spend not wastefully (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift . (26) Verily, spendthrifts are brothers of the devils , and the Devil (Satan) is ever ungrateful to his Lord. (27) And if you turn away from them (kindred, poor, wayfarer, whom We have ordered you to give their rights, but if you have no money at the time they ask you for it) and you are awaiting a mercy from your Lord for which you hope, then, speak unto them a soft, kind word . (28) And let not your hand be tied (like a miser) to your neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach (like a spendthrift), so that you become blameworthy and in severe poverty. (29) Truly, your Lord enlarges the provision for whom He wills and straitens (for whom He wills). Verily, He is Ever All-Knower, All-Seer of His slaves. (30) And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin. (31) And come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is an immoral sin, and an evil way . (32) And do not kill anyone whose killing Allâh/God has forbidden, except for a just cause. And whoever is killed wrongfully , We have given his heir the authority [(to demand Law of Equality in punishment- or to forgive, or to take blood - money)]. But let him not exceed limits in the matter of taking life (i.e he should not kill except the killer). Verily, he is helped (by the divine law) (33) And come not near to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength. And fulfil (every) covenant. Verily! the covenant, will be questioned about. (34) And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight. That is good (advantageous) and better in the end. (35) And follow not (O man i.e., say not, or do not or witness not) that of which you have no knowledge. Verily! The hearing, and the sight, and the heart, of each of those one will be questioned (by Allâh/Yahweh). (36) And walk not on the earth with conceit and arrogance. Verily, you can neither rend nor penetrate the earth, nor can you attain a stature like the mountains in height. (37) All the bad aspects of these (the above mentioned things) are hateful to your Lord. (38) This is (part) of wisdom which your Lord has revealed to you (O Muhammad ). And set not up with Allâh/God/yahweh any other god lest you should be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected, (from God's Mercy). (39) Has then your Lord (O pagans) preferred for you sons, and taken for Himself from among the angels daughters? Verily! You indeed utter an awful saying.(40) And surely, We have explained [Our Promises, Warnings and (set forth many) examples] in this Qur'ân that they (the disbelievers) may take heed, but it increases them in naught save aversion. (41) Say (O Muhammad to polytheists, pagans): "If there had been other gods along with Him (God) as they assert, then they would certainly have sought out a way to the Lord of the Throne (seeking His Pleasures and to be near to Him).(42) Glorified and High is He! From High above (the great falsehood) that they say! .(43) The seven heavens and the earth and all that is therein, glorify Him and there is not a thing but glorifies His Praise. But you understand not their glorification. Truly, He is Ever Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving.(44) 🌺🍊🌹💐🌺🌹🍊💐

[@Misses-Hippy]

@equalism 42 Excellent. I'm so tired of religion, its damage, and the idiots who profess it, I do not bother to put these thoughts down anymore, but it is fine to read them. Thanks.

[@Misses-Hippy]

@equalism 42 I know you are right, but after the 4 years of BS out of the last US admin., the willfully ignorant have burned me out! At age 63, I am tired of it all. Now I watch the US with morbid fascination, from a safe distance in France.

[@Magik1369]

This is the most plausible theory. The story in the gospels if obviously mythology. It is obvious that syncretism is at play here and typology. That the gospels were thought to be written between 70-150 CE fits perfectly with the thesis that the Flavians were behind the creation of Christianity.

[@caesarsmessiah]

You are trying to place the origin of the 'Pope' religion in the fourth century. Christianity emerged during the first and second century struggle against the militarized messianic movement. This is why the entire story of Jesus is about the Roman/Jewish war. - Joseph Atwill

OHhhh..that's right!! That explains a lot. Look at what the Book of Acts contains (no, I don't believe Pentecost actually happened). Look at the story of "Saul" /Paul killing Stephen. Look at Paul's later writings talking about the Romans. How many times does Paul [and his Christian invention or the FLAVIANS invention of Paul ] talk about persecution from the Jews or "messianic" Jews? A lot. So by encouraging Christians AND MITHRAS worshippers, to realize the Jews were killing them...this helped the Roman christian soldiers and Elites (who did exist...there were Mithras worshippers and christians among the soliders ranks ) feel okay about killing the Jews and their followers. HOw am I doing? Am I right or did I get it wrong?

[@caesarsmessiah]

1) The Flavians wrote the Gospels as a response to events during their reigns, not looking foward to the future. 2) In 313 Constantine issued the Edict of Milan legalizing Christian worship. The Christians Rome persecuted were Jewish messianic zealots. If Rome wished to end Roman Christianity it could have done so in minutes. 3) Popes were in Rome from the first century on. -Joseph Atwill

very good point. For about a year now, I have bypassed your videos and beliefs about the Flavians. I even saw a video "DEBUNKING" your video. But a lot has happened to my research in a year. I left the christian Faith about 4 years ago, but still have done research. NOW...I have finally been "ready" and listened to your videos. I am STARTING to really underrstand what in the heck was going on politically and religiously FOR THE ROMANS in the 1st Century. One of the biggest arguments against you and your views is that "...but the roman emperors persecuted and killed early christians". No, what they did was have lunatics like Nero and others emerge. BUT, widespread killing and persecution IS A LIE AND MYTH perpetrated by later Catholic historians and christian scholars. Persecution did not happen all the time and it did not happen EVERYWHERE in the empire. The Flavians did indeed create this, as a response socially and politically to what was going on around them. THEY ALSO SAW the rise of Mithras and new that AND CHRISTIANITY was big time. Constantine merely finished what the Flavians started.

[@VulcanJedi2006]

How do you know? Just because of one book and a KZbin video?

[@puritycapsulestv.8556]

catsintexas what source are you quoting from, don’t make an intellectually lazy assertion, bring a credible source from a First century historian that Christianity was invented by the Flavians

[@christinafidance340]

@@puritycapsulestv.8556 I can also request a valid source that God actually wrote/inspired the Bible, right??? It just MAKES A HELLUVA LOT MORE SENSE THAN THEBIBLE, so I’m gonna go with it. THINK. People have ALWAYS utilized religion in order to control people and they STILL DO! Just look at the GOP in the U.S. it’s OBVIOUS.

[@nataliejorden1783]

This study will never age and many must conclude we were bamboozled hoodwinked, blinded and deceived. It's painful to know you fell for a fairytale and dangerous. People wii kill to keep the facade alive.

[@Transpower]

This scholar has nailed it!

[@altarush]

Was Nero a myth? Where does Paul fit in to this? Was Paul a myth?

[@degibs]

It kind of makes sense considering how each gospel seems to get increasingly pro roman and anti Jew.

[@eseses2448]

A room full of doctors and nurses will help save and sustain more lives then the myth of jesus ever will. Too much people are making money off this story of a man that could do extraordinary things. Stabbed to death and then by some divine miracle comes back to life? Why do people believe this? Live humbly, peacefully and praise your fellow men.

[@JohnOShaughnessy]

very interesting indeed,,, but not surprising at all :)

[@PfctvsPontivsPilatvs]

The Romans used to DEIFY their emperors by mounting their wax images on CROSSES at their funerals and proclaiming them gods by inscriptions. (Justin Martyr 1 Apology 55; Francesco Carotta, Jesus was Caesar, ch. III: Crux)

[@caesarsmessiah]

I believe that Rome intended to divide Judaism in order to conquer it. Jews that wished conventional Judaism were given Roman controlled Rabbinical Judaism. Jews that looked to a messiah were given Roman controlled Christianity. Rome knew that it could not extinguish Judaism so it broke it into controllable elements. -Joe Atwill

[@TheologyChad22]

It's interesting because I feel as a student studying theology, the Pagan religions of room very very differently from that of Christianity, and Christianity was also different from Judaism, hence the crucifixion. I don't think the Romans would have come up with a story about Jesus like how it is presented

[@manuelenrique9220]

I think the Flavians intended to make a religion to control the Jews in the province of Judaea. They never intended it to spread in European Rome but when it started to happen they took advantage of it.

[@anthonycarbonaro7890]

He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.”

[@anthonyjohn9000]

There is no heaven nor he'll, so there is no gods. The biggest religion is HUMANITY. Rest everything is fantasy.

[@Mrch33ky]

Fascinating. Thank you for sharing this. Makes me see the historical Roman Catholic Church as a "perfect" extension of the Roman Empire. It swept through large parts of the planet the armies could never reach, didn't require all the resources of standing armies, though tax/tithe money flowed in from every corner. Maximum control with minimum expenditure. Perfect.

[@Misses-Hippy]

And they are still tax-free today! There is no excuse to be religious today, but people do not want to wake up.It often means acknowledging that your parents were unthinking suckers, which they were, and that is hard to do when your culture sys to hoor your parents. Insideous religious.

[@deborahnorris4613]

Not perfecrion, or it qould have been hidden forever. I am pretty sure that was their hope. One tiny slit of imperfection, and here we are! I grew up with teligious fanatics, and began to question, which to them, makes me heretical. I am vindicated, but have no need to say anything in their churches.

[@anthonycarbonaro7890]

Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: “‘“You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.”

[@Misses-Hippy]

So our "free-will" is based on misunderstanding the facts. And then you get punished for choosing behavior based on zip! Great idea.

[@themaverickfan]

I see a video full of many unsupported hypotheses

[@Paulbarbato]

Well Peter's and Jude didn't write gospels they wrote epistles. Absurd? Really? Even though every credible scholar both Christian and non-Christian universally affirms the validity of the gospel accounts affirming Jesus as a historical figure? And dude Read Luke 1:3 where Luke says "since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning I too decided to write an orderly account for you, Theophilius." Luke was a Historian and a Physician, of high class, it was his job to ..-cont

[@caesarsmessiah]

The new documentary "Caesar's Messiah:The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus" will clarify most of these issues. It comes out Sept 28th 2012. You can see it on the CaesarsMessiah website via a video streaming player or you can buy a DVD/Blu-ray. It will be playing at the Laemmle Music Hall theatre in Beverly Hills for a week.

[@Paulbarbato]

I think the dates of copies do make an incredible difference especially if you're talking about accounts from contemporaries. And of course there are contemporaries aside from Paul! You have Matthew, Peter, John, James, Jude, all of whom were alive and witnesses to Jesus and knew him personally when they wrote their accounts, Even most historians concede that Luke (as a Historian himself) was most likely a witness since he was an affiliate with the other apostles. If you collect ...-cont-

[@Paulbarbato]

-cont-... Furthermore most scholars (both Christian and non-christian alike) comply to the notion that Paul's epistles were written even earlier possibly in the 40s and the book of acts before AD 70 due to the fact that it cuts off on a cliffhanger prior to the destruction of the Jerusalem in the battle of Masada (which hadn't happened yet as it was written) There are various papyri documents that are on display in various galleries (sometimes travel around the world) that you can see!

[@FAITHandLOGIC]

I'm almost convinced. I watched the documentary and ordered the book. I have some serious reading and research to do and will see where the evidence leads.

[@chadmires]

Throw in Douglas Vogt & the Diehold Foundation & you’ve got some major information. I’ll be honest, it’s like going to college again. Too much information to take in at once.. about 50 hours or so but he connects everything!

[@chadmires]

@equalism 42 it’s not that simple.. Old Testament IS the truth but it needs some deciphering. 27 yrs left before the big event & I’m just suggesting a bit of knowledge before it goes down. Science proves this to be true & Douglas Vogt puts it together

[@chadmires]

@equalism 42 you’re claiming so many things to be fact and it’s apparently clouded your vision.

[@chadmires]

@equalism 42 I agree with the thread or jigsaw puzzle analogy & the blocks seem to fall as easy as the thread is pulled. Sure was hard to fit them together or pull it apart before I learned about the Diehold. You keep on quoting the Piso/Roman writings & it will continue to frustrate the mind as if the puzzle has the wrong piece or a snag has occurred.

[@chadmires]

equalism 42 that explains a lot.. Diehold Foundation with Douglas Vogt or suspiciousobservers with Ben Davidson... look it up on KZbin & if you really do care, let me know what you feel afterwards. I would like to know if it’s a crock but it hasn’t been debunked so far

[@rufinadarpoh6352]

Is there a book on this? If not, how can I get a copy of the thesis?

[@urbanevintner105]

This goes to prove that the letters PhD don't mean much of anything.

[@Minoltalphafan]

What about the Christian persecution by subsequent Caesar’s? I have heard that addressed only once, something to do with them being the wrong flavor of Christianity but I think it needs more, like under which Caesar did this start, under who did it end and why.

[@Grayraven777]

What they are calling Christians were confused Jews trying to figure out which god to pledge their allegiance to... "they chose poorly" because Ceasar is god.

[@armchairwomanmao2922]

I am both elated to confirm my inkling of Jesus Christ being a fictional character, and sad at the same time that he was well, a fictional character. Quite conflicting of emotions.

[@JayWest14]

I’m no scholar but I follow biblical scholars and their work. I’ve said it many times, while we see the references to Christians in the historical records outside of Judea, first century Palestine had many leaders claiming to be the messiah. And in year 69 AD, the year of the four emperors, Vespasian laid low in Alexandria. This was the same place where highly intellectual Jewish elites were living, elites that were friends of the Empire like Philo of Alexandria. It’s hard for any rational thinker to think that this new paradigm was introduced by a carpenter and some fishermen, and Jewish elites later carried the torch. The stories and theology is too complex to have been derived from a lowly uneducated class of people. Paul himself claims to be a Roman citizen, a highly educated and intelligent individual. As for the stories, Dr. Dennis MacDonald other Mimesis Criticism scholars have pointed to distinct parallels in the gospels with Greco-Roman literary works like the Odyssey and the Aenid. As for parallels to other writings, what I’ve noticed are the names and the hidden layers within those names, like Jesus and Joshua. Joshua was the OT Israelite general who took the people across the Jordan to the Promised Land. His NT counterpart is Jesus, which is an alternate form of Joshua, also carries the now ‘Jews’ into the new Promised Land. The name Joseph is the link between times, like in the Exodus story where it starts off that the new Pharaohs didn’t know Joseph, their link to the previous chapter the Book of Genesis. Likewise Joseph is a link to the Davidic Line and the stories and prophecies of the Messiah being from the line of David. The name Mary is English for Maria the Latin form of the Greek Mariam, which some have translated to meaning ‘rebellion’s. So if Jesus is representative of the messianic movement that began in 6CE, with the initial revolt of Judas of Galilee, then one could metaphorically claim that Jesus was indeed born of a virgin, in the sense that the rebellion was it’s birth. Then there’s the name Judas, the Greek version of the name Judah, the same name of the brother that betrayed Joseph in Genesis. I have always suspected that the Book of Matthew follows the Hero’s Journey format, which is a transitional format, the transition being that of a physical nation that is betrayed from within, Josephus blamed Judas of Galilee for the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple, which were destroyed only for the spirit of the nation to continue in a spiritual state, one without a physical nation of temple. Looking at it through an allegorical and metaphorical lens it’s clear as day what these stories represent.

[@Paulbarbato]

Interesting theory, however I don't think I can ascribe to it. There seems to be too many holes in the logic flow, for example, why on earth would the Romans proceed to persecute the very people who followed the ideology they presumably created and advocated? Plus, if the Romans were catering to the Pharisees, why did Jesus rebuke them so much? Also his existence itself is already universally attested by mainstream historians, even Atheistic scholars like Dawkins and the late Hitchens.

[@joselay4355]

It was the Eastern Roman Empire that adopted christianism. Not the Flavians

[@rudybaldovino9528]

Religions money, power, politics!

[@jamespenix9452]

why are we not doing something about this. get the truth out. I been reading on this for 5 yrs. can not find a church to go to.

[@claudiofalchi9175]

The man called "Jesus Christ" did not exist in Palestine. We went there, we checked everything. But the messiah who performed the miracles, whose name is "Yahushuah Ha Mashiach" , did in fact exist. The last thing they told us: "the messiah was not blond nor white". They told us he was a man of color. In the end, I do agree with the professor: Romans created "Jesus Christ" for political purpose. At the time, there were 22 gods all over the Roman Empire. The most powerful god of that time was "Mithras Christus", in the city of Rome. And "Isis Christus" in Greece.

[@peterhenry939]

And it's not only Christianity that was molded by the Romans and specifically the Flavian dynasty, it's also Rabbinic Judaism that was formed out of the collaborationist Pharisee sect by Rabbis allied with the Flavian dynasty. In fact one of the founding Rabbis of Rabbinic Judaism was Onkeles, a convert and nephew of Titus the destroyer of the Temple.

[@dribblesg2]

You didnt watch the video did you? He spends an entire section (with its own title) discussing just that claim.

[@TheSmithDorian]

@ Paul Barbato "... With Jesus we have roughly 24,000 written within 30-70 years" Again you are a little out with your figures. The actual number is 0 (zero) We have no NT texts at all (even fragments) from within 70 years of Jesus death. This is the difficulty one encounters when trying to assess the evidence for the historical Jesus. - Christians like yourself tend to lie about it.

[@avikraft2695]

Well Bart T. Ehrman was a man of truth . Thats why he couldn't live with the lie any longer

[@JazzEnthusiast]

The Romans couldn't pull this off without the betrayal of the Jews by Josephus. Josephus, a Jew, in an attempt to save his own life played Titus Flavius by telling him that he was a prophet and that it was revealed to Josephus that Titus would be Emperor. Titus conscripted Josephus as his translator and historian. This was a literary war.

[@ophirdog]

This makes so much sense.

[@Paulbarbato]

After meticulous scrutiny of Atwill's claims I think I can say his theory is very poorly contrived and weakly speculative at best. Sure they sound "fun and enticing" but there's too many facets that don't add up in terms of how the Romans operated and what history has proven. If the Flavians really cared that much to maintain the Jews under their control they did it in a way that was totally in opposition to themselves, (Not to mention costing way too much money) which doesn't make any sense.

[@4trahasis]

@smadeintheshade Re: Falk, I have hoped to get that book, but this hasn't happened yet. I believe Elijah Benamozegh provides a similar notion in his (albeit abridged in translation) 'Israel and Humanity'. He is more nuanced than this, though I have much to read in it yet, so cannot provide further depth as of yet. Will you ever make videos? I'd love to know your take on Xtianity's construction, grafting, and cultivation.

[@sagerider2]

Remember, give to Caesar that which is Caesars.

[@marcduperron6062]

That means "Pay your taxes"!

[@אחיהשראחיה]

Extremely counter to the philosophy of the Nazarenes.. of which sect if he did exist, he'd probably be from, since Nazareth wasn't called so in his lifetime.. also under Roman rule robbery wasn't punishable via Crucifixion .. so it's highly unlikely he'd be crucified between two..

[@shaun1293]

R P Romans’ had already conquered Judea in 1st century BC and we’re taxing the Jews. The Jews of course rebelled a lot, believing a warlord messiah would free them. The Romans made the messiah a pacifist; the New Testament instructs you to submit to Rome without hesitation.

[@yasi7655]

Brilliant!!!!!

[@Fritzheede]

The book is "Caesar's Messiah:The Roman Conspiracy to Invent Jesus". The Flavian Signature Edition

[@jasonfrederick1258]

He has put together a rather simple two and two....and has unbeknownst to maths gotten 22,000,000.. Amazing.

[@456zounds]

How come I am not able to do a "thumbs up" on this poster?!!!

[@wowojeejee]

Paul was the first one to write about Jesus, circa 60CE, even though he never met him like everyone else who wrote about him. Jesus is all myth!

[@barrystalder5889]

Guess who wrote Paul and luke....the whole new testament was authored by the Piso family look up Arius Piso, Fabius, Justus, and Julius wrote Revelations......look up Douglas Vogt on you tube...5 part series on this and the family who wrote the New testiment.

[@nickvanr.8584]

Παύλος, Saul, sol.

[@Misses-Hippy]

@Asterix I was enjoying this very interesting debate. Asterix, go find Obelix.

[@thebennettd]

The parts referenced in 5:30 to about 7:00 or so, what is that and where did this part come from?

[@PfctvsPontivsPilatvs]

Exactly. According to Jewish tradition, the Yeshu who was hanged on the Eve of Passover was active in the first century BCE.

[@Paulbarbato]

Believe it or not there's more accounts for the life of Jesus written within a close enough timeframe then there are for any other historical figure in ancient history, by contrast we only have about 10 copies of Caesar's accounts and Gallic wars which were written 1000 years after his death. The only thing outside of Jesus that even has any ground are the 643 copies of Homer's life written 500 years after his death. With Jesus we have roughly 24,000 written within 30-70 years. and ....cont-

[@barryseaton3121]

In the enquiry and argument relating to the creation of Christianity Dr. Blackhirst's analysis and presentation is clear, uncluttered and precise, a delight to listen to.

[@YourAscents]

Jewish Oral Tradition admits that one of the mistakes they made was in being too zealous and not wise enough in their interactions with the Romans.

[@vedinthorn]

And yet Christians existed before the flavians were in power at all.

[@PuhiPureBloOdYT]

Who cares

[@TRichmond1964]

They co-opted the movement, early on🤔

Prove it, Martial. Prove it. YOu cant historically or with reason. YOu only say that because you beleive the Gosples and the Book of Acts was a real thing. yes, there was some CAtholic saints that wrote stuff in the 2nd and 3rd century. But they were agents or deceived by those who exaggerated and lied about early christian events. And keep in mind, that most people did not label themselves as Christians, at that point. Most people did not have access to newspapers so they DIDN'T EVEN KNOW that at Antioch at one point, they were called Christians. They saw themselves as believers and followers of Jesus. So how do you know if they were not MITHRAS worshippers or how do you know if those early writings were not invented later by the Cath church, and we were "told" that they are from the 1st and 2nd Centuries?

[@johnp6859]

Christianity was already well established before Flavian Hegemony. Nero blamed the Christians for the great fire of Rome in the early 60's. There are also references to Christians during the reign of Caligula. The issue for the Flavian hypothesis is whether the Nero Christians were the Christians described in the New Testament or followers of a Messianic (warlike freedom fighter) character. If they were of the latter class, why were there so many openly Christian people in Rome in the AD60s and before? It would be like open ISIS followers parading in New York today! No, this hypothesis has to be wrong, the Christians of the pre-Flavian period must have been a purely religious group like the Christians of today. Clearly the early Christians were not following the Gospels, but the words of preachers. This was the mechanism back then, just like the story of Adam and Eve, Noah and Abraham were passed down before being written down by Scribes. We now know that it is all purely Mythology and did not actually take place. Modern Humans actually arrived in the region as nomadic hunters many many millennia before agricultural settlers with their surpluses and freeloading religious leaders!

[@lulubelle8484]

Sometimes conspiracy has no basis in fact, and this is one of those times. Read Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius, to totally debunk this nonsense. There were Christians in Rome well before the Flavian Emperors, and Christian martyrs were put to death by Nero, mid-60s AD. The Flavians, with the compliance of Josephus, did not invent Christianity. A small group of academics, etc, are trying to make a name for themselves by selectively reading and interpreting what is, nowadays, an obscure period of history, eg, Ancient Rome.

[@avikraft2695]

I wish you would hear what your mouth is saying .Talk about conspiracy ideas .Every time I see a video on you tube about Jews or Israel I see numerous comments from hate filled xtians with invented lies and slanders against the Jewish people and although these slanders have no actual evidence from historical sources and only a mindless idiot would believe such invented tales the perpetrators of these myths use that vile book of lies the nt to make the unbelievable sound believable . After all aren't all Jews god killers as if you could actually kill god ?. Don't they all belong to the synagogue of satan? .Isn't their father the devil? After all once one accepts the nt as true then what it says about the Jews must be true and therefore every evil that xtians claim is the fault of Jews must be true since they are the spawn of the devil . What a sick evil religion xtianity is . It must build itself up by destroying another religion .It must claim it is true by making up the most vile lies and slanders against millions of innocent people . How many innocent men woman and children have been tortured to death and murdered by the sadistic followers of jeebus fk. crust? Now just Jews but millions of indigenous peoples on 4 continents

[@renatocprimo]

The christians mentioned are the messianic movement which was militaristic. Obviously they were being killed. Josephus says in the war of the jews, "this book is for the ones who want to read the truth of the events and not fantasy" - I am sure he was referring to the new testament that was being created as this fantasy mixed with the truth as it is. He talks about a couple different Jesus and also about the Jesus, the brother of James who was the high priest at the time. And also, talk about their Messiah being murdered by their tyrant leaders. Which I can assume was preaching about a peace treaty with the romans.

[@DaniyalRahman-yc8ip]

lulubelle8484 and what do you have a PHD in again ??? Oh yes reading bullshit

[@caesarsmessiah]

Caesar's Messiah Documentary RELEASED!!!!!!! Sept. 28th, 2012 Available at CaesarsMessiahDoc website - Stream it now - Download it now - Buy DVD/Blu-ray

[@sammyjacksonofhollywood1245]

Good job 👍

[@anthonycarbonaro7890]

So, did Jesus really exist? With his new book, Did Jesus Exist? The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth, Bart Ehrman, historian and professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, wanted to provide solid historical evidence for the existence of Jesus. "I wanted to approach this question as an historian to see whether that's right or not," Ehrman tells weekends on All Things Considered host Guy Raz. The answer is straightforward and widely accepted among scholars of all faiths, but Ehrman says there is a large contingent of people claiming that Jesus never did exist. These people are also known as mythicists. "It was a surprise to me to see how influential these mythicists are," Ehrman says. "Historically, they've been significant and in the Soviet Union, in fact, the mythicist view was the dominant view, and even today, in some parts of the West - in parts of Scandinavia - it is a dominant view that Jesus never existed," he says. Mythicists' arguments are fairly plausible, Ehrman says. According to them, Jesus was never mentioned in any Roman sources and there is no archeological evidence that Jesus ever existed. Even Christian sources are problematic - the Gospels come long after Jesus' death, written by people who never saw the man. Most importantly," he explains, "these mythicists point out that there are Pagan gods who were said to die and rise again and so the idea is that Jesus was made up as a Jewish god who died and rose again." In his book, Ehrman marshals all of the evidence proving the existence of Jesus, including the writings of the apostle Paul. "Paul knew Jesus' brother, James, and he knew his closest disciple, Peter, and he tells us that he did," Ehrman says. "If Jesus didn't exist, you would think his brother would know about it, so I think Paul is probably pretty good evidence that Jesus at least existed," he says. In Did Jesus Exist?, Ehrman builds a technical argument and shows that one of the reasons for knowing that Jesus existed is that if someone invented Jesus, they would not have created a messiah who was so easily overcome. "The Messiah was supposed to overthrow the enemies - and so if you're going to make up a messiah, you'd make up a powerful messiah," he says. "You wouldn't make up somebody who was humiliated, tortured and the killed by the enemies." So Jesus did exist, but who was he? Ehrman says when historians focus on the life of Jesus, they discover a Jesus who is completely different from the one portrayed by popular culture or by religious texts. "The mythicists have some right things to say," Ehrman says. "The Gospels do portray Jesus in ways that are non-historical." When Raz asks Ehrman about his relationship to Jesus, Ehrman says that most of it is very historical but that Jesus teaches us valuable lessons. "Jesus' teachings of love, and mercy and forgiveness, I think, really should dominate our lives," he says. "On the personal level, I agree with many of the ethical teachings of Jesus and I try to model my life on them, even though I don't agree with the apocalyptic framework in which they were put."

[@stjo4756]

Research Abelard Reuchlin

[@456zounds]

This is not spam. It is someone's opinion and, in my book, has some legitimacy. Spam is religious rant, and ignorant profane junk. Carry on!!

[@degibs]

Joseph Atwill is attending a conference in London on the 19th where he claims he will prove this to be the case, so watch this space i guess.

[@Lhein33]

There are 2 texts: the Masoretic & the Septuagint. Most protestants (and you also as I see) believe that the Masoretic is more reliable b/c it's written in Hebrew, the original language, while the Septuagint is in greek. That's wrong b/c the Septuagint version is older (3rd-2nd cent BC) while the Masoretic text was formed only in the 6th cent AD. Also, the NT quotes at 86% the Septuagint & the Dead Sea Scrolls proved that the Septuagint followed an established BC Jewish tradition.

[@soteriology1012]

Here is the HUGE problem I see with this thesis. There were basically 3 ways for Christians to avoid persecution in Rome. (1) Join a pagan mystery school guild similar to the free Masons Rev 2:20 Rev 2:14 & commit immoral acts & idolatry.(2) revert back to the Judiastic Sacrificial System orLegal System that had a covenant with Rome Hebrews eg Heb 6 & Galatians. (3) Join the Imperial Cult of Rome. The problem is that many Christians were put to death for not burning a pinch of incense to deify Caesar.

[@Paulbarbato]

..-cont- both Christian and non-Christian alike will tell you that Jesus at least existed, where they disagree is on the divinity of Jesus, (For example Hitchens and Dawkins, famed Atheists will proclaim Jesus was nothing more than just a revolutionary Jew but not God) Paul writes of Jesus as a historical figure AND of his crucifixion multiple times in his epistles! Have you not read them? Even Peter (who was Jesus' apostle) affirms Paul's writings in his 2nd epistle. I'd say that ...cont 2-...

[@PfctvsPontivsPilatvs]

You are absolutely right about Minucius Felix!

[@tmcdon4ld]

Wiki search Serapis and Ptolemy Soter. Serapis was devised during the 3rd century BC on the orders of Ptolemy I to unify the Greeks and Egyptians in his realm. The god was depicted as Greek in appearance, but with Egyptian trappings, and combined iconography from a great many cults, signifying both abundance and resurrection. Serapis continued to increase in popularity during the Roman period, often replacing Osiris as the consort of Isis in non-Egyptian temples.

[@mbrowshan]

Great Video....

[@KevZen2000]

This thesis is too much like a Dan Brown novel. Christianity, is not a creation of Rome, it is a creation of a radical Jewish sect, that originally followed the 'messiah,' as Jesus was this figure. When Jesus failed to bring in the long awaited Jewish kingdom when crucified, he was deified, as a god, to create Christianity. Now, Rome did play a role into establishing a state religion of Christianity, which enabled it to become the large cult it is today.

[@altarush]

Why would Flavian Caesars not declare themselves messiahs since they were gods already? It would work for Romans but for the jew, they would need a living one, not a dead unless you conceive them that Jesus did resurrected from the dead.

[@DominicFlynn]

Rome does not suppress Christianity.

[@B1G_ChUnG5]

Mark Twain stated "The best cure for christianity is reading the bible."

[@MosheHaMayim4591]

Sorry for typo, Yahushua = Yah is Saving.

[@thebennettd]

Except that Josephus and other Roman documents discuss that there was in fact a man Named Yashua in that time that was executed.

[@b4tm4n42]

christians forged letters

[@stjo4756]

Research Abelard Reuchlin

[@yohananlevi8539]

What is the name of this book please?

[@Paulbarbato]

Are you serious? No Christian persecution? What History book are you reading? We have ancient accounts of emperors like Nero and Valerian who write gloriously about the various techniques they would use to publicly slaughter the "pestilent Christian fools" such as "burning at the stake, feeding to lions, limbs torn off" and so on. And you're wrong about Hitchens, he's quoted at Talbot for calling Jesus a "charismatic deluded Rabbi" but nonetheless real as a person in history. Just not divine.

[@Lhein33]

Firstly, please don't write more than one consecutive comments. KZbin doesn't inform me for more than one & I don't like searching & reading 4 or 5 of them & trying to reply in only one. Secondly, I didn't see you saying anything about the relationship between the Septuagint & the Masoretic text; that was our matter & that was my comment about. Thirdly, you are a bit confused about the jewish history; Mattathias (Matityahu) revolted against the Seleucid Greeks 230 yrs before Titus.

[@THERAPTURECOMES]

How do you explain away the Apostolic fathers?

[@maltokilyofas5753]

How com Titus got his book in d Bible?

[@Paulbarbato]

Wow are you serious? That sounds completely off the mark in terms of historicity. First of all the vast majority of Jews didn't even like or accept Jesus because he didn't fit their ideal image of a conquering warrior messiah, if the Flavian's objective was to counter the Jews then why on earth would the gentiles become the largest demographic converted? the target was totally missed! That would've made their goal a huge failure don't you think? I honestly don't see any of the validity in that.

[@Mumon010]

Maybe if the Gospel of Caesar thesis has some validity, then "I came, I saw, I conquered" became "I came, I washed, I saw" because it was the Roman aristocracy had come to understand the Old Testament? Fishers of men, not the rather absurd thesis, it seems to me, espoused here, as spearing to death the remnants of the "Jewish" resistance in the waters off Palestine. Not that I think the task of spreading the knowledge of the ancient Hebrews was completed by Constantine, there was, and still is, it seems, some way to go, IMHO.

[@munyaradzimunodawafa7745]

the truth is unbelievable!!

[@davebeecher6579]

wow! comments are proof of how such a con worked so well, really sad

[@Doriesep6622]

What do you think the world would have been like without Christianity? I know science would have advanced more rapidly. So, there would have been Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, and Europe would have persisted in the Greek and Roman gods? Thanks.

[@yadinyarden]

This makes a lot of sense. I mean just comic book heroes. It went from cheap dime comics for children to a multi age group multbillion dollar industry just in under 100yrs. Take away the age of reason and science and this same industry would be a religious philosophy 2000yrs ago

[@Paulbarbato]

...-cont 2- ..make an account of things in a professional orderly fashion. And it's very possible that Jesus could've just told his disciples about his temptation in Luke 4. Simple. Nothing wrong with that. We tell people about accounts that actually happened that they don't witness all the time. That doesn't necessarily mean they have grounds to distrust you as long as you're honest. Also, every claim by Prof Callahan has already been refuted by F.Moore Cross (Harvard) & John Lennox (Oxford)

[@johnhunyadi6695]

Well, it's an interesting thesis, but should not both you and Joe Atwill give some credit to Ralph Ellis? As I understand it, Mr. Ellis has been investigating both this and other matters related to the Bible more or less by himself for more than three decades. He comes very close to proving, for example, that much of the Old Testament is a kind of inversion of actual history -- the Israelites were the Hyksos, and the Hyksos were actually rulers of Lower Egypt, not slaves in Egypt, and oppressors, not victims. After several centuries, pharaoh Ahmose finally managed who drive them out. Jerusalem is where they sought refuge.

[@ישעיהובן-תורה]

The Pharisee movement was not anti temple...this guy is obviously a Christian of sorts.

[@PfctvsPontivsPilatvs]

How do you explain indigenous Christianity in India which was much closer in practice to Judaism than western or middle-eastern Christianity, and claims to go back to 52 CE when the Apostle Thomas allegedly arrived? And as far as i know, you can't disprove Thomas' arrival in India.

[@priyangshukla1132]

They belive that jesus of student of buddha in india

[@gvjudd1289]

why not ,it is just a story created during the british occupation

[@judithsanders9801]

Why choose Greek as the language for the Gospels?

[@neilzientek]

+Judith Sanders Because everyone in the eastern half of the Roman Empire spoke Greek?

[@judahkatz2402]

Because the Septuagint was written in Greek and it was ready made hellenistic version of the Torah.

[@bleirdo_dude]

Google each before equal sign.Rostra=Golgotha,Janus mythology=Alpha/Omega Tropaion=sacred cross,Temple of Caesar=Deified Caesar,Rhea Silvia=Virgin First Triumvirate=3 wise men,Clementia=forgiver of sins,Capitoline Triad=Trinity Caesar's Comet=* of Bethlehem (compare 2 images) Chi Rho=1st Christogram Lictor=12 disciples,Victoria mythology=angel,Saint Longinus=speared Jesus watch?v=wwfY069iPVI watch?v=31cOKXxn1NU Saturnalia=Before there was Xmas

[@bsaver5942]

Don't forget that the Jews took over Hebrew history as their own too.

[@avikraft2695]

You mean like the book of Esther Daniel Nehemiah and Ezra which all mention hayehudim (Jews in Hebrew)or hayehudoi(Aramaic version of hayehudim ). Thats funny . I always thought that only the Jews celebrate Purim as they were commanded to in the book of Esther . I'll have to read the book again to see where it says the Hebrews were commanded to celebrate Purim

[@smadeintheshade]

@IWannabeJew - Wayman sent me this link. I'm done with the J-man. I've been focusing on the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov & Breslov Hasidism. Yet, for me, the most likely explanation is that there was a historical "Yeshua," who started his own Teshuvah Movement. He was a wonder-working, itinerant moralist, who took issue with Annas ben Seth's family & he was martyred by Rome. Not unlike the Lubavitcher Rebbe, he fell victim to the cult of personality & things spun out of control from there.

[@yohananlevi8539]

I meant the book by Yoram Hazony where he talks about the distortion of the Hebrew scriptures.

[@RiverFlow58]

The Age of Aquarius is dawning. Thank the goddess (or whoever or whatever!) for Rod Blackhurst, Joseph Atwill, et al, and videos like this.

[@Lhein33]

Ofc I know Vespasian. He lived about 7-8 decades after Christ who according to the estimates of the historians was born in the last decade BC. But who says he performed miracles? Do you know the ancient roman sources like Suetonius? Does he or any other historian say anything about miracles? Also, even if there were rumors & myths about an emperor I cannot see what you conclude. That Vespasian & Jesus are the same person? That's stupid. A Jewish carpenter who was crucified & a Roman emperor??

[@elie6769]

Flavians wrote gospels they wanted slaves in their empire and 5o change Judaism and they were both persecuted. That's why against Jews. Flavians are a royal. Romans were the ones who controlled literature they had monolithic control. Its hard to write books and everything

[@namispondjamispond9282]

So they must be teaching different things at different universities around the world. My friend has a degree in religious studies yet is still a practicing Catholic, and an arrogant one at that. I just don't get how you can study religion and yet then continue to follow a religion. It's so true that it's almost impossible to get through to some of these fools. It's about time things like Ceasers Messiah and Allah and Mohammed have nothing to do with Islam are shown in every school on earth. We are still allowing people to live with these falsehoods their whole lives. It's totally bloody tragic.

[@lakevacm]

Rebirth and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is still alive and well. Believe to your hearts content that Christianity was created by men. There will always be people making the assertion that there is no spirit world, and there is no audible communication between man and God possible, because they have no first hand experience. As Jesus said, according to the Flavians: "He who seeks to lose his life will find his life, and he who seeks to gain his life will lose his life," illustrating that a process of surrendering to God is in order, a process of staking all in God. Thus you have a supernatural anointing into the five-fold ministry. Maybe read the "Flavian Gospels," doing what Jesus said, with both feet in, and see if God does not show up.

[@hkrainman]

Yeah, now just explain who it was in the Shroud of Turin?

[@jpmacc94]

hkrainman I can tell you who it wasn't

[@amerramday]

A lie fabricated by the Romans.

[@maxwattage6631]

Leonardo Da Vinci, the Medici family happened upon it. 🙄 🐂💨💩 Need I say more?

[@aethelwulf8753]

Well we seem to be on the same page here, but I would like to examine a few things myself because this does interest me. Yes the Romans did burn the Great Library, but of course by that time the term Roman meant something quite different to when Julius Caesar was alive (The God, AVE CAESAR, of course Gaius Julius didnt think himself a god, he just thought himself to be the greatest man to ever live). Very few Gauls were citizens at that time as the Roman nobles were sort of racist back then CONT

[@bgs03548]

Sorry.. You're going to get stood up and very confounded when he doesn't show up.

[@YourAscents]

@smadeintheshade You're an addict of the historical Jesus industry, Madewell. As an addict, you're too busy looking for your next fix or shaking from withdrawals to recognize the most likely explanation, especially since it reveals that you spend most of your time in a dreamworld. Blather on with your hypenated words.

[@PaintedHoundie]

If christianity is judaism for gentiles what is islam?

[@A.C31]

The third branch of the Abrahamic tree.

[@PaintedHoundie]

Hmm... I'll take that i guess. Was lookin for something else though.

[@avikraft2695]

Islam is a second ripoff of Judaism as well as a ripoff of xtianity

[@PaintedHoundie]

Avi Kraft Damn i was looking for something with continuity.

[@lucasdebruin]

Thegrandkru made by the roman church.