How To Beat a Noob Box (Rome: Total War)

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I know this video sucks but its the first time I've tried to really edit something together so bear with me.
Thanks to Naacal and Hami for helping me with the test battles for this video.
I also took footage from Prince of Macedon, Piper, KittySN, and Naacal.

[@lukeinvictus]

N.B. : I am aware that artillery exists. 9:21

[@RazorsharpLT]

Uh... archers?

[@lukeinvictus]

@@RazorsharpLT I covered all these in the video >.

[@rbfishcs123]

I remember the 1998 intel world championship qualifier where all opponents made noob boxes, only to be completely demolished by the Nigerian prodigy xxx_n00bCannon_xxx who won the qualifier by fielding only ballistas. I'll never forget that day.

[@lukeinvictus]

Lol

[@Yusuf-ok5rk]

L O L

[@JoJoKaiser1504]

1998? Rtw was released in 2004. What game are you talking about?

[@lukeinvictus]

@@JoJoKaiser1504 it’s a meme comment

[@0MVR_0]

@@JoJoKaiser1504 and intel hosting a world championship for total war

[@Emperor045]

I came here to watch a tutorial about a game I havent played in 12 years.

[@lukeinvictus]

Then you’re my exact target audience. Trying to remind people how awesome RTW is :)

[@realkekz]

Every box has structural weaknesses, that's the key to a successful box cracking

[@TheTonyMcD]

I prefer the term noob square, or the Crassus gambit.

[@Kerry59]

Crassus gambit is a banger name

[@tyul]

This was the first video game I ever played, had no idea people still played let alone competitively, awesome video

[@lukeinvictus]

We are a small but dedicated community

[@ArstonKoltor]

Same

[@myth4751]

Currently playing it on the phone

[@ArstonKoltor]

@@myth4751 What faction are you playing for?

[@Pink.andahalf]

Wasn't that an amazong discovery? I was thrilled to realize it was on smartphones. ​@myth4751

[@deeznoots6241]

Imagine building a box when you can just cornercamp smh

[@Vehrec]

Total war with crowd/crush would be totally different. Overlapping units, or marching them through each other is very dangerous irl.

[@lukeinvictus]

Yeah total war isn’t realistic whatsoever but I love it anyway

[@sergeandou9853]

Rome: TW is not bad at it as some other titles. It's quite hard or sometimes imposible for a unit to go through another one at least. They dropped it in later games.

[@Steven-cf1ty]

​@@sergeandou9853the old engine actually modeled collision, but with Empire onwards they had to script the look of it. That's the root of why the games became weird stat stacking auto resolve heavy campaigns

[@realkekz]

Frustrate the enemy into making a foolish assault on your pike unit

[@gabork5055]

I don't even know why i still watch videos about RTW because i can't even run it and BI anymore without them crashing and remastered just sucks and crashes the same. :D But pretty much the only way i would fight a box is with missile units. This gave me a bit of inspiration to try to run some old TW games like Medieval 2 or Empire TW though. The elephant mounted mortars would be pretty good at busting those boxes.

[@0Vladislav0]

Everything about this video is perfect. Low resolution, bandicam on top, audio! It's actually charming. But on a serious note, respect for people who still playing Rome.

[@winndypops]

Very cool, most of the info is very applicable to other Total War games as well, especially 6:17 which is great for weakening those solid shielded front line units you see in Med 2 boxes.

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

Just not total war warhammer. Cause mages, motors and rockets exist

[@JoshSweetvale]

Total warhammer: Laughs in Wizard/Artillery

[@mauriciotonn1146]

now i have a ideat why the are power

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

Yeah noob boxes are categorically a terrible idea in warhammer. With the amount of things that could one shot all the units bunched up to the level of debuffs able to be mass applies....baaaad idea.

[@angels2online]

People blob in warhammer just as much if not more

[@capadociaash8003]

@@angels2onlineand it’s much much worse for them when they do

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

@@angels2online Yeah but it can be a very punishing. In total war a single aoe could potentially destroy like half your army if you did the same level of blobing as seen in some parts of this video. Those really tight boxes would find themselves free kills. It's a rough tactic to do if fighting wizards.

[@BoomPunchPear]

I once fought against a greek player that corner camped with bunch of armored hoplites, archers and onagers. I played the romans and I concentrated all my urban cohorts on just one uniit and when he saw I was about to pierce his formation he tried manovering other units to support the attacked one and then his back line got wrecked with my praetorian cav. He exited pretty quickly lol

[@dzungtran314]

Did his onager maul your stacked units? How did you got through?

[@BoomPunchPear]

​@@dzungtran314 Onagers are not that precise IIRC, I was going wide until I got close and them quickly amased on the one side while harrasing with my cav. I think he hit maybe twich with it

[@Lili_Chen2005]

Really great advice, I think you covered virtually everything. I'd add two small tactics that I find useful. First, you can do hella damage if you manually instruct Javelin armed infantry to throw at the rear rank and then spam the halt button before they follow up with a charge. It works great in all situations, like if your foe is using archers or light infantry to screen the heavier troops. You can just target the unit you want and hit halt after they throw. Secondly, placing your infantry into a column, guard, and manually walking them through the spears by clicking on the empty ground opposite of the box is a great way to break into the formation with minimal losses. The narrowness of the column provides the smallest front that the pikes can damage and guard formation ensures they don't go places that you don't want them to before it's time. Just remember to disable it once you're into the formation. After using up all missiles, I like to surround the box on four sides. On three of those sides, I use a loose formation and a single long line that sits very close to the box. It serves to pin them down with the use of a minimal number of soldiers. If that side of the box shifts, I attack it whilst out of formation. Next, I concentrate my army at the weakest point of the box, place one unit into a column, and manually run them through it. It works more often than not and once you force enough of them to switch to a sword you can send in reinforcements and run the whole thing into the center of the formation. Archers are incredibly powerful at whittling down a box, but just be mindful of ammunition consumption. Always target the rear of the enemy, but this might not always be possible prior to the melee. An experienced defending player will place another unit directly behind each line and facing the opposite direction. This will mean most of those arrows will be striking the shields of that second unit and not the back of the unit you intended to strike. I find it more effective to shoot them to 50% - 25% of your ammunition and then save the rest. Once you make inroads into the box they will be forced to turn that unit around to help. That's when you use up the rest of those arrows on the rear of the soldiers.

[@lukeinvictus]

Sometimes manual pila isn’t worth it because the pila damage decreases a lot with distance. Sometimes it roughly cancels out with the rear effect. But yes I do manual pila like that that in a lot of cases!

[@zacheryludwin3058]

Great video! Important point you made about firing archers from as far away from their target as possible. Would like to add some details about boxes at the competitive level. Boxes are one of the primary reasons it needs to be specified before battle which player is attacker and which is defender as a standoff situation can easily occur. Also there is something to be said about using fire arrows vs boxes. They can have a psychological effect due to their slow rate of fire extending the time that the person using the box has to sit and watch their soldiers die. Also, slingers pair very nicely with boxes due to their greater base defense stats than archers. They can serve as ammo sponges which means less arrows going towards the box. Lastly, pike regrouping obviously greatly increases box effectiveness against any cav attacks.

[@lukeinvictus]

Zeke! Glad you liked it. Good points, I definitely didn’t touch on everything important.

[@realkekz]

Attacking a box is an art

[@thirteen6659]

Finally, Leonidas won't know what hit him. He'll rue the day he said no to joining my kingdom.

[@phobics9498]

I don't think Carrhae is a good example. That battle was won primarily by persian archers, which are a type of unit that don't benefit from concentration of force as they all always attack so I think it makes sense your advice was not followed

[@lukeinvictus]

More stuff like this or normal commentaries?

[@Baldwin_IV_69]

more videos and more livestreams at all

[@JarthenGreenmeadow]

yes

[@thegermanhero204]

Music around 3:40 ?

[@lukeinvictus]

@@thegermanhero204Chopin’s Waltz in Bm Lofi version

[@Makofueled]

@@lukeinvictus Schwerpunkt and Chopin all in one video. What a good day.

[@florians9949]

Also one thing to keep in mind is that at Cannae, the romans were so compacted that the legionaires couldn’t even lift there swords to fight. Total War doesn’t take this into concideration.

[@Eruner279]

Troy singlehandedly destroyed the Box with Flanking rework.

[@foxplot7287]

it's been a while since RTW but I got VERY good at busting dwarf boxes in TWWarhammer, very satisfying

[@NeiasaurusCreations]

I cast Tzenchs 2 aoes on your box.

[@brianjones9780]

Like that scene in Gladiator where he gets the war vets to make a porcupine. It's effective. Attacking any part of the formation is gonna suck.

[@jameslockhart4507]

I'll pass this information to my wolf friends, thanks man

[@lukeinvictus]

@@jameslockhart4507 thank god I’m tired of seeing them lose to amateur musk ox builds

[@SpeartonMan]

I love this low quality video with the shitty microphone. It looks like it was posted 10 years ago and not 2 months. I'm not sarcastic. This is what peak 2014 KZbin looked like. Content is great, too. Great inputs on how to fight such kind of formations.

[@lukeinvictus]

And stick war was a peak 2010 flash game ;) I have nyc rent and tuition to pay, leaves little for a quality setup. Thanks for your feedback 😁

[@SpeartonMan]

@@lukeinvictus someone remembers :') I'm an old man

[@simplified8717]

Instructions unclear, told my mother I could not help her carry boxes up the stairs. "I do not do boxes, I am no noob" I stated proudly, boosted by the wisdom of this video. She beat the absolute crap out of me.

[@nonya1366]

Should have boxed up before being hit, smh.

[@nicholasfuller8501]

Oh man, for a first its pretty solid!

[@realkekz]

OPEN UP HOLES IN THE BOX KEK

[@matthewearlywine5535]

This is why I only play campaign in Total War. I'm actually trying to use strategy and formations like they were used in those time periods not trying to cheese

[@cruelmole]

Feeling personally attacked by this video 😂

[@MrAnihillator]

And that is why the tercio/pike and shot had supporting units to drive of attempts at breaking the "box".

[@wargriffin5]

*(Artillery Intensifies)*

[@thekaiser3815]

Luke Invictus: how do you beat the box? me: hehe, Onagers go wooshhhh

[@lukeinvictus]

What’s that like a black Irish person?

[@thekaiser3815]

@@lukeinvictus sorry i ment Onager. let me put this another way. General: commander of my Artillery. Commander: Yes General. General: Do you see that Square. Commander: Yes General. General: I don't want to.

[@realkekz]

A well made box

[@KittySN]

I always called them noob cubes.

[@lukeinvictus]

no way

[@realkekz]

Fire on the rear side

[@realkekz]

Use your wedge judiciously when attacking boxes

[@CanaldoBeck]

Catapult , you noob. With Fire

[@kfg_ghost8821]

never played this game but still enjoyed this video thanks

[@lukeinvictus]

Wow how’d you find this?

[@realkekz]

I go through people's subscriptions to find new channels to watch and I have to say, you have a highly highly highly controversial sub list OP, so many based channels and so many awful ones

[@lukeinvictus]

@@realkekz lol you convinced me to go through and do the same Based: Sam o nella, emplemon, Tom scott, turkey Tom, coffeezilla, colossal is crazy, primer, internet historian ( even if he did steal that one video), lemmino, Bobby broccoli, explosm entertainment, Fredrick Knudsen Cringe Hamza, all the weird wojack channels, crowder, weeb incel shit

[@damaskusseraph6046]

I remember one of my first games in Rome totak war was against a box. Spartans. I had a normal roman army so i surrounded him. Threw all my pilum abd fired all my arrows then stood there for 30 minutes waiting. It was an hour lonhmg game of just standing there until he got bored ajd attacked at which point i broke through a crack and won

[@ussrcat5127]

иногда ящик это вынужденная мера, совсем недавно, на Кубке Наций, был момент, когда мне пришлось его строить, хотя у противника был 1 отряд стрелков и немного тяжелой кавалерии, стрелки подходили очень близко к моему ящику, что позволяло прогнать их с поля боя, если бы я этого не сделал, тогда, может быть, я бы проиграл.

[@aninnymouse1069]

Cast some fire magic

[@adamcipka5873]

Nah. parthians archers goes brrr

[@vm.999]

Like #1000 👍🏻

[@lukeinvictus]

thank you sir!

[@spitfyr9566]

This is great. Will tired archers do the same damage as fresh ones with their arrows?

[@lukeinvictus]

Yes

[@lucyfrenchie9470]

I dont ply but this vid is 🔥

[@lukeinvictus]

thank you! I was worried it wouldnt be approachable for non-hardcore mp fans.

[@Headcrabman9999]

I don't play this game, but I appreciate your well delivered information

[@lukeinvictus]

Thank you sir

[@DiocletianLarius]

Idk why YT recommend me this but I'm glad, I love this game! Just a question: why do you use the original RTW instead of the Remastered one? I too love the original more than the newer version, but I recognize the latter is less crashy/more stable, and I would think multiplayer players would rather use it than the former one. Last time I played 2004's RTW online I had to use third party programs like Game Ranger :p

[@lukeinvictus]

They changed the mechanics for remastered, and the UI is a lot worse, and while the game looks better up close it looks significantly worse from far away which is more important for MP

[@lukeinvictus]

Glad you liked the video! I used to use GR too

[@DiocletianLarius]

@@lukeinvictus Ohh, got it, thanks!

[@realkekz]

POKE THE CORNERS OF AN ENEMY'S BOX AAAAAAAAAA

[@lukeinvictus]

@@realkekz tease it yk

[@realkekz]

A chasm in her box

[@LucasCunhaRocha]

pretty sure the "sword-side" thing has been debunked, Units only have 3 "sides", Front, Back and flanks, which side the weapon/shield is doesn't matter. At least I know this is 100% true for med2.

[@lukeinvictus]

It’s super easy to observe it mattering on Rome 1.

[@rabidlorax1650]

I heard that sword side isnt a thing in rtw or m2tw and that either flank get half shield bonus while rear gets none.

[@lukeinvictus]

You heard wrong

[@Yugdax]

KZbin recommendation w

[@tomc4459]

Love myself some Rome 1

[@baranbeytemur5451]

idk about total war but horse archers decimate real life noob boxes

[@Baylonfrisbee]

Noob square was only used a few times and only by the Roman’s Every other square formation had either muskets or arqubuers

[@realkekz]

A single point ramming into a box ahahahahahaha

[@lukeinvictus]

@@realkekz don’t forget to make your boxes as tight as possible!

[@realkekz]

@@lukeinvictus reàl

[@Gloin79]

I assume in a competitive match there's always a defender and attacker with time limit? Or what compels the other player to attack the box

[@lukeinvictus]

Attacker is usually defined as the more mobile player for tourneys. Theres a long line of tournament precedent that says you do have to attack the box. Its not really a problem though because boxing isnt a particularly strong tactic unless you've already accomplished other goals in the game first.

[@adambarys1685]

British military tactics in napoleonic era was noob then

[@realkekz]

heh BOX.

[@sergeandou9853]

Wouldn't it be easier just to shoot them in the back with arrows or javelines? Ranged units are bane of phalanx, right?

[@lukeinvictus]

you do know i spend like half the video talking about ranged units right

[@celtibero599]

How to beat the Noob Box? Gonzalo Fernández de Cordova: Arcabuz

[@theyedmeister6981]

Will never be able to play multiplayer, due to the copy of the game I have; however, informative!

[@lukeinvictus]

Mac?

[@maycontainnuts3127]

@@lukeinvictus probably pirate lol

[@se7enseethes]

@@lukeinvictus no players in mac :(

[@juncheok8579]

I never play multiplayer, but i have made a humongous noob box in shogun 2 when i fought against 2 takeda armies with high tier cavalry when i only had 1 army of ashigaru

[@realkekz]

More vertical than horizontal spread ekekekekekekek

[@1893Mauser]

With no time limit i used parade my units back and forth till they got bored

[@lukeinvictus]

The way attacker/defender is designated in competitive games prevents you from doing that. Even in a random match I’d only recommend doing that if you have no other options to destroy the box.

[@balduccioliv]

lmao failed attack with light inf and successful attack with cataphracts. dude you re a stategic genius, nothing less

[@lukeinvictus]

@@balduccioliv I mean, those were just visual aids, not experiments. If you would like a demonstration, feel free to hop on rtw for some 1v1s, though.

[@balduccioliv]

@@lukeinvictus are you arguing that a light inf build will win my pikes noob box ?

[@lukeinvictus]

@@balduccioliv I mean with the right amount of light infantry I certainly could break a box. Especially with cav like my opponent had there. But again, like I said, that was just a visual aid. I was more suggesting that if you have any doubt about my qualification to make this video then we could just 1v1 :)

[@georgelucas7125]

Why are catapults banned in the ruleset? Are they too strong? Too random?

[@lukeinvictus]

@@georgelucas7125 there’s no reason they absolutely need to be but in general they are pretty random like you said, and they make the games a little more rushed. Imo for flat maps it’s better to not have them but a lot of people host hilly maps and they should prolly be allowed to bust campers.

[@ArstonKoltor]

Just, use, horse archers👌

[@DasGuntLord01]

Okay where do I go to watch RTW esports?

[@lukeinvictus]

It’s a small community and not everything gets streamed but republicarena.ru is where most of the stuff gets organized. My discord also has tournaments.

[@alejandrop.s.3942]

Playing Rome II lately and I had to come up with an army strat for beating some powerful late game Nomads empire (Roxolani I think) , and I used a "noob box" , but based on the Spanish Tercios, with lots of missiles inside, Merceneary Thureos (superb unit for this) and skirmish cav harassing them at their own game. Properly used, the square is deathly.

[@henka4166]

what annoys me with noob boxes, and also camping on a hill in napoleon, is that they expect me to go on the offensive, but they are as much on the offensive as i am. what if make my own noob box, or camp on my own hill? i havent played the later games, but players should be penalized for being passive, or get assigned attacker/defender roles

[@lukeinvictus]

@@henka4166 there are such roles. In competition, we generally say that the player with the mobility advantage is the attacker. How we precisely define mobility advantage is a little vague, but it’s normally not an issue

[@lukeinvictus]

@@henka4166 in other total wars they define attacker/defender differently.

[@henka4166]

@@lukeinvictus ok thats good. i have just played casual multiplayer in mtw2 and napoleon, not organised competitions

[@HalIOfFamer]

What if one simply shot the box?

[@lukeinvictus]

Wow I never thought of that before

[@zyntril6404]

the fact that anyone plays this game at all in 2024 is crazy.

[@encapsulatedslime]

TRIARII

[@uristmcary]

Falxmen, play thrace.

[@Redtecho]

It's called Seige Weapons.

[@BERNTRR]

I just leave the match. Why would i bother? Wastes their time too

[@lukeinvictus]

@@BERNTRR because sometimes boxing is a valid tactic if your opponent has lost all of their cavalry. Just leaving the game at that point is losing.

[@BERNTRR]

@@lukeinvictus loading in and seeing a spartan hoplite noobbox. In any real conflict that is not a valid strategy. If i could tell my men to throw rocks at them their strategy fails. Its only within the confines of the game where this can be an unbeatable strat. Who caref if you "concede defeat". People who box like that are boring af, and want to win by breaking the game. If i come across it i just leave, let them have tgeir fun with noobbox alone. Im not speaking of those rare occations in mp where the missile units have been depleted, enemy has cav superiority and you have some melee infantry including spearmen or some pikes.

[@realkekz]

I'm a pro at box destruction hahahahahaha

[@WissHH-]

I remember just playing a TW for the first time, it was Rome TW, i was almost done with my first campaign when i saw this dude in my friend list had also TW Rome, i asked him if he wanted to try an online game since it was my first time i was curious. This mf with over 500h decided to use this although he knew it was my first game, i almost won but because i found it boring i was reckless... I didnt play an online game for years because of this lamer.

[@ascottishgamerx9728]

corner camp better ^.^

[@lukeinvictus]

Also banned in competition

[@Yoo-Kang]

It’s not really a “noob” tactic when there were lots of good examples of box formations through nations throughout history

[@lukeinvictus]

Most generals throughout history were not, in fact, experienced Rome: total war players.

[@Oliver-li4vi]

@@lukeinvictus😂😂😂😂😂

[@johnroscoe2406]

*Formation that is generally effective, has few glaring weaknesses and works against most adversaries lacking ballistic capability* Gamers: "NOOB!" If the point is to win, then I'm going to do what it takes to win.

[@roman8197]

k

[@0MVR_0]

you sound very sweaty

[@johnroscoe2406]

@@0MVR_0 What is the point of a competition? Answer the question, and don't say "fun" like that's clever. I am asking what is the SPECIFIC point of a COMPETITION.

[@0MVR_0]

@@johnroscoe2406 to develop insights from a simulation that meaningfully reflect reality. But if you want to lose yourself for a couple hundred dollars, that is legal behavior.

[@Campernicus]

@@johnroscoe2406 what about gamers using the word noob makes you so upset? it is only a word