How to BEAT Gunline Armies in Warhammer 40K - Tips + Counter Tactics

[@keyanklupacs6333]

I notice you did not include the tried and true "Socially engineer the community into thinking the matchup is oppressive until it's nerfed."

[@PlayWii360tm]

Guard feels this. Doesn't help that our rules, and stratagems also suck.

[@AWPtical800]

(weeps in Tau)

[@CaptJPurdie]

If a nerd cries in the woods and no one hears it...

[@jonathanellis5811]

@@PlayWii360tm your stratagems do suck, your rules are just okay, but your units are fantastic. Indirect fire was nerfed because Guard players were bringing manticores and basilisks to games, lining them up in the backline, then pounding their opponents with indirect fire hitting on 2’s. Considering the fact that Astra Militarum’s winrate hasn’t been below 49% this entire edition, I’d say the army is doing just fine. Meanwhile Orks are sitting at, what, 38%? And Space Marines haven’t been able to pull themselves above 41% ever since their codex dropped. I don’t even wanna mention the poor AdMech players.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

@@jonathanellis5811 ^ Student of said ability.

[@EruCoolGuy]

Instructions unclear, my entire army has been set up in deep strike.

[@keyanklupacs6333]

Paul??? is that you Paul? ;)

[@fi4re]

Codex Astartes calls this maneuver “Steel Rain”.

[@percymacdonald6657]

You fool! I infiltrate my entire army onto the board

[@lizadon0740]

Me when I play blood angels. Oops all jump packs, just as Sanguinous intended.

[@intlidave]

Quick, deploy the Kroot Konga Line!

[@antonious1685]

As a custodes player, the part of playing the objective is key and then daring them to come take the points! Great video!

[@behemoth9543]

Terrain is probably the single most important part. A lot of people use self-built or third party terrain because GWs is so expensive that you often end up with terrain thats more decorative than actually useful to a lot of armies in my experience. If for example a unit of Bloodletters can barely hide anywhere because of the standard bearer sticking out from behind the terrain that REALLY isn't enough.

[@David-b3v2d]

Let's face it it should b u have to c the body to shoot at should b the rule,it won't b long before we get folk converting all there models to crough with weapon or banner held very low hehe

[@bigboybastard7162]

​@David-b3v2d while i agree with you whole heartedly, reading that gave me a stroke

[@bigboybastard7162]

Yeah, its always annoying when people try that. Its why i always establish beforehand a few key things. Are we looking at the base of the terrain or the actual terrain piece as obscuring/cover and are we basing visibility off base or model?

[@jacket2848]

@@David-b3v2d Literally none of that matters. Ruins are all which are used in competitive play, you're either visible or not. Height basically doesn't matter at all.

[@David-b3v2d]

@jacket2848 a board full of ruins basically how boring is competitive play hehe

[@MedTech37572]

As I just learned as a Tau player vs World Eaters, just charge up the board and get into engagement range while the battle suits are in reserve.

[@im_flat]

Ion Riptides and pairs of HYMP Broadsides are your friend in that matchup. Ion Hammerheads can also be useful but I prefer the Riptides for fall back+shoot and their higher toughness.

[@MedTech37572]

@@im_flat Yup, I needed more ion weapons. My biggest mistakes were keeping my battle suits in deep strike and not knowing how fast World Eaters can actually move. I've never played them before then.

[@im_flat]

@@MedTech37572 In general against melee armies assume they’ll going to come at you fast. Overestimating a threat range is better than underestimating it and being caught with your pants down as Eightbound or Skorpekhs tear your Crisis Suits open like cans Also just have to play cagier. The more stuff you have on the field, the more stuff they have to get stuck into before fighting the targets they WANT to melee. The nice thing about World Eaters is unlike Blood Angels they’re very lacking on Jump Packs, so they can’t use FLY to go over your screens. Angron is still a threat, though.

[@honeymanod]

Now, do a video on how to win with a gun line.

[@patrickdawson6281]

Deploy.

[@hedless4788]

So much of this revolves around terrain and knowledge of it. Wish terrain placement and line of sight was more standardize because so much just relies on "be excellent to one another" when there's an obvious difference between fighting World Eaters and Tau in terms of putting it down. Age of Sigmar 4th edition helped this dramatically with terrain suggestions and much more easier to understand terrain usage, although there is MUCH less ranged to deal with.

[@ilPrinni]

If your playing daemons: Bring Belakor, his aura that prevents everyone being targeted can win you games straight up against shooting.

[@Azakamak2401]

I've had several games where my opponent and I finished setting up the terrain and thought it was good only to finish deployment and realize just how open it was for them to shoot my Orks. I've definitely lost a few games to that.

[@W385TER96]

Reserve, then Rapid Ingress... profit

[@drexmartell9803]

The way I see it is -- when you take those shots on the people in the back it is not that person technically making that save -- just the guys in the front dying and another guy moving up and taking their place aggressively.

[@noahkalmes7716]

Guard player here! I hate it when my opponents do the following: 1. Target my guardsmen. I use those for screening, doing actions, and taking primary. If you kill enough guardsmen, I won't be able to do all three, which really hurts. I haven't played other gunline factions, but the same is probably true of their battleline units too. 2. Deep strike. Even threatening it will force me to put guardsmen in the back to screen you out instead of using them to take primary or do actions. 3. Tagging vehicles in combat, as mentioned. Absolutely crippling. Even if your unit isn't a strong melee threat, you either stop me from moving or stop me from shooting.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

It's from back an edition or two ago, but Tau had an even harder issue with 1 because they also were using Pathfinders/drones for Markerlight as well, having to balance all four of those. I doubt that's the same now especially as drones are tokens now, but I'm sure it's close enough that unless you're rolling Kroot heavy your infantry is for objectives.

[@averykellogg3766]

I 100% agree with this, locking tracks in melee can be crippling sometimes

[@ChopperMeir]

I'll have to remember this. At the local club there's quite a few guard players and I've always struggled with the amount of tanks they have. Thank you

[@noahkalmes7716]

@ChopperMeir yeah, the tanks are scary, but if you kill the guardsmen instead, you force them to choose between shooting you with the tanks or scoring with them

[@conked944]

What do you think of my primaris party bus & Mario kart with bikes? What about infiltrators? Buddy plays orks just asking

[@everettcolby8976]

This is helpful! I play Eldar, and I’m getting my friend into 40K. I think I’ve made a problem however as he plays tau, and in our 1000 point games, he brings 2 hammerheads, longstrike, a riptide and a ghostkeel 🤷‍♂️

[@scrubgrunt5105]

I thought longstrike went to legends? Unless you have no problem with playing against legend units?

[@im_flat]

Fire Dragons and Fire Prisms are your friend. Dragons’ll fuck up the Riptide and Ghostkeel once they’re in range, Prism linked fire shenanigans can help shut down hammerhead sightline play.

[@AncientIrishCelt]

Thats what you get for encouraging Tau

[@im_flat]

@@AncientIrishCelt You must not have many friends

[@Supermatmike]

The answer? Use a gun. And if that don't work, use more gun.

[@nomassgoer8350]

Said like an ork player 🤣

[@hiashi1943]

​@@nomassgoer8350 nah, we don't use guns, we use DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA

[@solowingborders3239]

Spoken like an Engineer

[@Jay-zk7uw]

@@hiashi1943 Did someone say dakka?

[@Rahab198]

​@@nomassgoer8350 like a TRUE Ork player. WWWWAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHH

[@Mark_Batcheler]

Going to my first tournament soon, play as guard Good to get some insight into how other factions might try to get me :)

[@bigboybastard7162]

They tell us all their secrets

[@Shikari21]

Played a Tau player last night so this is nice video to help learn what to do better next time

[@lewisburrough2745]

Thanks for the videos. After returning since 4th edition (yep 4th edition) it’s good to catch up and listen to you explain more about other factions!

[@litigation_jackson]

Heh me and my friends are just playing 4th edition again

[@MillionRabillionz]

tl;dr: if theyz got lotz of dakka, youz beat em by usin even MORE DAKKA

[@NornQueenKya]

Cannon fodder. Endless waves of cannon fodder

[@Jeff-pm5zc]

Not all of us play Orks or Tyranids.

[@concrescience3642]

I literally just watched a video of yours and the next video was this!

[@alexandrudorries3307]

“Endless Swarm” ain’t lookin’ so endless…

[@NornQueenKya]

@@concrescience3642 that's funny lol

[@NornQueenKya]

@@Jeff-pm5zc I'm okay making custodians cannon fodder

[@beardwierd2783]

Jump packs love the jump packs

[@srdjadzogaz286]

12inch fusion crisis gunline 😆

[@tiberiumnp8030]

Step 1: hope that your opponent doesn’t have kataphron breachers. 😂

[@92Audun]

One time back in 4th or 5th edition, I played my normal force org army against 2 of my friends armies, each using their own force org with maxed heavy support slots, and we certainly didn't use enough terrain in the middle of the board. There was no turn 2.

[@Evil0tto]

Yeah. Back then I played a lot of games against a friend who sat on his back line with an Astartes army with almost nothing but heavy guns and a bare minimum amount of troops. I was playing 'Nids, and rules-wise I didn't have a lot of options to get across the table. I regularly got wiped out. Then they introduced the Seeding Swarm option, and suddenly I was all over him with genestealers turn 2.

[@gavinziozios1431]

I just go with my tried and true tactice. Don't stop moving up the field. It's amazing how panicky gunlines can get once you close the gap

[@LordyT34]

World Eaters: Take +2 to movement with Advance and Charge

[@AWPtical800]

Tau: eat Photon Grenade.

[@Waagghhboy]

​@@AWPtical800+6 auto advance ... ops you dead

[@benjackson8731]

basically hide and bait them into coming towards you. Its objectives that score at the end of the day, not kills (couple of exceptions)

[@robertwilson5475]

Watching this to look for weaknesses to cover in my scary gunline

[@litigation_jackson]

Looks like the answer is indirect fire

[@freed991]

My buddy played tau and I played space marines. after 2 games of him melting my land raider I said.. screw heavy armor. then turn one I had one thing on the table. My little land raider in cover. turn 2... Drop pods, drop pods and dreadnaughts with stern guard with melta guns.. tac squads.. all up in his gun line. I laughed he said a curse word then the land raider charged with assault termies inside when everything was distracted. it was a good game. the look on his face when the land raider was the only thing turn one lmao. priceless.

[@NBeaver-bx4yl]

How I do it with the leagues of Votann ( who are indeed quite a shooty army, but better balance than TAU) Is that I hide my unit for the first turn or 2, only expose sagitaurs and hearthkyn to cap obejectives or missions, sagitaurs can usually smash equivalent transports. Then when my opponent has to come foward or exposes himself to get my little squads off the objectives. I deepstrike my Hearthguards and pop up my 2 hekatons, get my thunderkyn out of reserve and do a massive alpha strike on all the enemy anti-Tank options. Once these are down, they will not kill the Hekatons or hearthguards. This got me to like 10 wins and 1 loses against multiple Tau players. The single loss, we had barely any terrain available to us, he got turn 1 and the loses were catastrophic, was still able to table him by turn 5, but lost my 2 points.

[@conked944]

I have 2 squads of infiltrators; I hope to theoretical encourage a gunline to get closer and charge them with intercessors who spend the first turn catching up to the infiltrators

[@charleswatson2605]

I lost bad recently. I went 1st moved a few units up to take objectives and set up for t2. Mission was the mortal wounds in deployment zone one. Opponents ran 3 dreadnoughts and jetbikes to mid board. Lost half my army turn b4 turn 2 was done. My teammate faired a little better as he was in rhinos, but by t3 he had lost most of his army, and I had 2 units left.

[@redxarmy7807]

Im struggling with fighting Necrons with my Tyrandis. Everytime I shoot Immortals with my Exocrine my opponents just use a CP to give the whole unit lone operative.

[@kevinvanaken8633]

Your opponent is cheating then, the Strat can only be used on canoptek units, not cryptek units

[@fenristhor9204]

Non of the cryptecs have canoptek keyword, only things lite wraiths, spiders, scarabs etc.

[@Fofostarfighter]

Noted, developing counter stratergies

[@BillyEichelberger]

As a vanguard spearhead player, gunlines are scared of me.

[@MookelDookel5623]

I run a Vanguard Salamanders list, and I vouch for this

[@trippsclips903]

When I play guard, I generally don't go too hard on my alpha strikes because it can just destroy an opponents morale. I do maybe an open bombardment with my artillery and advance everyone else. More flavorful, more fun.

[@scrubgrunt5105]

What artillery do you use?

[@trippsclips903]

@@scrubgrunt5105 mainly a wyvern and an earthshaker carriage. Sometimes I use a field battery as well, but sometimes I swap it out for other stuff.

[@finneganjensen6351]

Eyyyyy useful info!

[@ArkChanneltrue]

I need to know how to deal with melee armies, I play T'au, and I usually lose a good part of my units due to engagement range.

[@im_flat]

Learn how to screen effectively. No joke, that’s your solution. Don’t be afraid to take a unit or two of Carnivores/Hounds as chaff just to tie things up. Stingwings can also be useful for it due to the 12” move+deep strike.

[@im_flat]

Piranhas are also great for screening due to their fast movement and large size. Make sure they get off their alpha strike with the fusions and seeker missiles, maybe grab a secondary (which they’re also great for), and then you can throw them in. They’re super fast, and tough for 55 points, so they won’t be instantly one-shot by a melee ball barreling forward, and can block them enough to prevent the melee from getting to your juicy backline.

[@ruslanburnashev1294]

If we close doors/windows on first flour of a ruin can infantry go through the wall? Or it must go around it? What about inf with jump packs?

[@hyrumcastaneda1427]

Infantry can essentially phase through ruin walls. It's assumed that they would either use existing holes or make their own. This can lead to hilarious situations where bigger infantry like Ghazghkull kool-aid mans through a wall.

[@lizadon0740]

Is Gaz not a monster.

[@hyrumcastaneda1427]

@lizadon0740 While Ghaz and Markari take up 16 transport spaces, he has the infantry keyword. Which I at least find hilarious

[@solowingborders3239]

You beat a gunline by getting a bigger gunline. I'm perfectly happy with my opponents sitting still, I'll just keep hitting with my Basilisk Battery.

[@THRASHER-kq5ij]

This makes my nails stop biting

[@suleimansufianov5702]

Never play GW layouts, use WTC medium layouts. GW is waaay to open.

[@internetuser320]

Now please make how to COUNTER-COUNTER gunline army -gunline player

[@Latarius]

Do Eradicators reroll trigger in overwatch?

[@lizadon0740]

I think so but I you still only hit on sixs.

[@Tac-Tactikus]

Honestly, beating gunline is rather easy. Have alot of Close Combat Squads as Scouts and Infiltrators, hide everything behind ruins close to objectives. Win. I do feel like Melee is far better then ranged at the current time.

[@concrescience3642]

Gunline = Funline

[@The_Engineer1001]

On one hand, perhaps terrain is my problem. I've never once gotten to play a game where a majority, or even a good amount, of my army has been safe behind cover, and I play an oops all chainswords army, while every single person I commonly play against is an oops all super heavy guns that can kill your entire army yet are still a tenth of the point cost. On the other hand, nah I just need to spend more money

[@BartEmbregts]

Strike at zero hour, with overwhelming fire power.

[@rbsicheroli2545]

You are 24h late, got destroyed by Eldars in the morning :(

[@RevanR]

The best way to deal with gun lines is just *RUN!*

[@dpshadow7276]

I could really use the exact opposite video right now. Playing a shooting heavy UM army and every melee army i faced, had models with 10-12' movement and thus arrived in my deployment zone turn 2 ._. Like how would I even play Tau or Eldar, when everything is in my deployment zone at turn 2. Additionally, I also have to get objectives... (Played vs Necrons with Scorptecs, Orks with beast snagga rider thingy and Tyranids with Screamer Killer)

[@im_flat]

What detachment are you playing with your UM gunline? Vanguard, for example, has plenty of tools to play keepaway from melee. The good thing about Marines is you have plenty of melee counterpunch units

[@dpshadow7276]

@@im_flat Gladius and a more melee focused army worked for me in the past, but sometimes i want to play a more range centered army and it is usually alot harder. I also have death guards and in comparison, its stupidly easy...just walk Forward and you will reach tem eventually (if you stay in Cover of course)

[@im_flat]

@@dpshadow7276 If you want strong gunline stuff, play Vanguard. Gladius is much more of a hybrid list detachment

[@drewbg333]

Blood angels

[@liamcuttell7905]

Me - Spacemarine Friend - Tau Both us started end of 9th, both just painting as a hobby then thought lets give this a go playing. Early on I had a lot of losses due to us not realising we had not enough terrain. Get to now its been a while since we played each other but I've been doing a lot of small local 1k-2k tournaments, doing pretty well (never first) but quite a few second places. Even beating my friend in rankings on the same tournaments we entered. Last tournament we did together for first time we actually had a pairing vs each other. Want to start this salty rant to express I still had fun and so did everyone around us listening to me moan, who at this point we knew pretty well due to how often we've attended the venue. 1500point tournament, terrain is okay not terrible, not amazing. Tau playing mon'kar detachment, me on ironstorm (lots of armour and techmarines)... due to his list, he was able to wait till last to deploy crisis suits and broadsides... due to his combo, broadsides were capable of a turn 1, 17 inch alpha strike, with broadsides.... which would give him an angle of any piece of armour he wanted, no matter where I tried to hide during deployment. We spent 40mins deploying both us trying to take every mm of advantage we could get. He got turn 1, he did his 17inch alpha strike, took down my repulsor executioner... it blew up, 6w on my redmeptor 5w on two techmarines both with enhancements, 3w onto my intercessor squad... his alpha strike took out around 150points of ny HQ with enchancements, 220points with the tank, half of my 210 dreadnought and a third of my 80 point battle line unit... so around 500points of my 1500point army and my first cp (for armour of contempt to give me a 6+) gone due to 3 broadsides, that got scout move due to a near by crisis suit enchancement, auto advance 6 due to a 1cp start and assault due to mon'kar, its getting spotted by stealth suits... so its hitting on threes with some rerolling fun, wounding on threes with rerolling fun, ignoring cover because stealth suits, ignoring hit modifiers because broadsides... Was impossible to hide, impossible to out range, cover wasn't a thing, hit modifiers wasnt a thing, impossible to overwhelm, I didn't have the units to tag him in combat... but if I did he had 3 teams of breachers ready to punish me... all three hiding in devilfish... I understand my tank exploding and rolling high d6's wasn't great for me and not somthing he influenced... but all this felt really bad still... luckily I was able to claw 46 points due to scouts, eliminator and a lieutent with combi weapon and drawing the best secondary objectives of my life each turn but him maxing out objectives and pretty much tabling me, I am a salty boy about it... and I don't want to have to tailor my list just to survive him in the chance we pair in a tournament... his tau are the only ones I struggle against

[@benjackson8731]

As a Tau player, this feels a bit off. Sounds like you didn't have enough terrain. Were the three broadsides in one unit, or three units of one? Use of the abilities and strats would suggest one unit, but the range of targets would suggest three units (due to the split fire penalty of FtGG) I've had armour of contempt eat an entire round of shooting before

[@liamcuttell7905]

@benjackson8731 was 1 unit of three, got a scout move + normal + advance... all went into reuplusor... was the repulsor exploding my deployment that damaged everything... marker light from stealth suits made me ignore cover, then the targeting system on the broadsides made them ignore hit modifiers so smoke would have been useless... repulsor is a 3+ normal save

[@benjackson8731]

@@liamcuttell7905 ah, so bad luck with the deadly demise then, I had been getting the impression that they had targeted each of those units separately. Sounds like he played a strong, expensive combo in a synergistic army that has to preemptively take out stuff because they will collapse like a wet paper bag if retaliated. Sounds like you needed more terrain and not gather 1/3 of your army around one spot

[@liamcuttell7905]

@@benjackson8731 yeah was the deadly demise that really hurt me! But I felt salty anyway :D

[@dancallan7907]

Idk i dont think "just use cover bro" is very constructive. What if youre a World Eater player? You cant just sit in the ruins in your half of the table. You need to go get objectives. And if you have no shooting or close range shooting like Death Guard youre not gaining anything while hiding in the ruins. Teleporting a Primarch behind enemy lines will only get you so far, even daddy Angron has limits.

[@jacket2848]

You can contest objectives in cover, it really is that simple.

[@hoplite-1986]

Use wtc terrain problem solved

[@DeusExMachina10001]

Set up a bigger gunline.

[@QisforQadim]

Or play a ruleset with alternating activations?

[@TheFella69]

Easy answer: Thousand sons with sorcerers for being targetable from 18 inches, Problem solved😎

[@BauerRoxanne-b3o]

Gabe Cape

[@MrFiremagnet]

Gunlines can be pretty tough to play against. Especially if the opponent doesn't put all eggs in one box and doesn't just sit in his deploy but moves his gunline to the midfield and has units for secondaries and cannon fodder for screening. Usually I build a "take all comers" list with space marines, but sometimes, when I see my opponent having an upper hand in melee, I just put them together and in cover and force the opponent to march into my forces. That worked well against even the armies that are good against marines, but it was more of a strategy to lose with dignity instead of instantly lose - that's how I usually run gunlines. My point is that the inherent disadvantage of that army type is lack pf mobility, and more mobile/agile armies with better scoring can be a counter. When I play against them, I personally just focus on the main damage dealing units and kind of ignore the rest, trying to do missions. If I manage to destroy the DD, rest is situational, missions are priority. Also melee armies tend to be a natural counter for obviously reasons, but you gotta really commit into having the powerful alpha-strike and every charge reroll there is. If you manage to tap into the most dangerous units turn 1, the rest is manageable.

[@zandosdwarf-king]

don't bring choppa alone to dakka fight

[@lizadon0740]

Bring 60 choppas

[@wolfontheroad9767]

Just play imperial knight. They shoot, they stab.

[@gusfring8451]

I’ll definitely use this video with my nonexistent army!

[@pm.covers803]

How are you supposed to beat Tau with a melee army? Tau have cheap heavy shooting, AND mobility AND long range AND tricks to ignore cover and modifiers. If i play dreadnoughts i get outranged and oneshotted. If i play jumppacks i get overwatched and also oneshottet. 9 inch deepstrike charges are not reliable.

[@ICantThinkOfAFunnyHandle]

Outscore them. What are they going to do when you're sitting on every point and they're cowering in their deployment zone?

[@pm.covers803]

Hammerhead and Riptides have 10 inch move. They will find shooting lanes and just shoot you from the objective. After that just a 55 points piranha takes the objective. Hammerheads for 145 points will always trade up. And Riptides will take more than 180 points to kill them.

[@hahaureadmyname]

tell them youre going to bring your normal marine list then whip out the 240 guardsman youve been working on in secret for weeks

[@wesleyw7908]

​@@pm.covers803If your opponents are having such an easy time getting firing lines, you're probably not using a good terrain setup. The current GW nexus terrain layouts are actually quite good, and in general either favour melee or balance things out. Jump pack infantry based melee armies especially love the ruin based terrain layouts.

[@TheViolentjester]

Lone operatives, and teleport tricks with GK and necrons

[@jumlord5888]

yooo

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...

[@Axiom_Dominus]

I'm the gunline army. Tell me how to beat speed armies like tyranids and orkz because even though I'm winning in kills and board control I end up losing massively in victory points.

[@Luzarioth]

Well if you play one of those cowardly Melee armies, you hide in Deepstrike, hide behind ruins and than hide in Melee.

[@eidannishidan3794]

i'm playing most of the time against my brother. Astra against Custodes ... fuck deep strike. 50% of his army, wtf is even that. i just spam 12 Russ now, so he reacted with with 3 Calladius. We stopped playing ... Bring back detachement army restriction pls ....

[@PlayWii360tm]

List tailoring is unsportsmanlike like.

[@Waagghhboy]

You guys both suck as individuals and ruined the game for each other. You are examples of what not to do.... list tailoring your only opponent...so childish

[@bsuns123123]

If him deep striking his custodians is a problem for you, then you just need to use your infantry to screen more. 10 man infantry squads are 60pts and 10 man catachans are 55. Put them in key positions and spread them out to the edges of coherency to deny your opponent good ground to actually deep strike their units in. If you do it right your opponent won't be able to deep strike an your half of the board at all. trading 60-120pts to keep 200-300pts(or more) of custodians stuck in reserves is a great trade for you. Also remember that stuff that started the game in reserves is destroyed at the start of the fourth battle round.

[@bsuns123123]

Also forceorg charts wouldn't have done anything to stop 3x caladius. most detachments had room for at least 2 heavy supports, if not more

[@im_flat]

…you know you have Bullgryn and Hydras, right?

[@peppermintshore]

The biggest issue with gun lines is not gun line. Its the god awful rule that allows a unit to blast a unit off the table that is behind an Obscuring Terrain but one model is visible. If GW changed the rule that says you can only target models that are not behind obscuring then gun lines would be easier to deal with and also table would become more interesting to set up rather than getting a protractor out to make sure all los lines have blocking terrain. Im an old 2nd-4th edition player and thats how the game was played back then and it wasn't an issue. Even star wars legion gets round this by saying you target the leader and shoot from the leader. Hide the leader and your golden. Dumb ass rule and the only way i will be playing 10th now is with boarding actions that doesnt have this stupid rule

[@samhunter1205]

Agreed I really don't like this rule. The game may not need to be quite as terrain dense if this were not the case (allowing larger models to actually move a little more freely). It is also totally, completely immersion breaking, at least to me. I know there is always a level of abstraction involved but that is a massive step too far for me. Honestly I don't like 10th for multiple reasons (power level in place of points and no customisation options being the other main two), so my playgroup have re-written the core rules to create our own edition. Changing the LoS rules was one of the first things we agreed on.

[@peppermintshore]

@@samhunter1205 I wish that was the case for me. Unfortunately the people I play with play Tau and Imperial Guard so they love the rule. So now I don't play full 40k. I'm going back to kill team and on playing 10th via boarding Action that does have the rule you shoot the models you can see not the unit. My fist and last game of 10th was my votann Vs tau and he removed 70-80% of my army in turn 1 as he could draw los to one model in each unit I fielded. My vehicles are now going to be terrain in Kill Team.

[@samhunter1205]

@@peppermintshore that sounds pretty horrid, terrain set-ups should always be such that you can hide units, even with that stupid rule it shouldn't be possible for your opponent to get LoS on so much of your army.

[@peppermintshore]

@@samhunter1205 it was enough for me to say I'm done with 10. I have loads of terrain from collecting kill team since 2018 but nothing is big enough to full hide a 10 man unit. I guess I just prefer 4th edition where rules made sense and tables we not just a dense collection of ruins.

[@gigamesh780]

As a Tau player, I hardly see the problem with gunline

[@cavemansam8400]

“Tau Bond? Embarrassing. I cast ‘Da Jump’ and teleport my 30 Ork Boyz in the rear of your gunline. WAAAGH!! Mr Bond.” 😏

[@terminaro]

What do you mean "counter" gunlines? The game itself is against gunlines from 8th onwards ...

[@tyroberts2866]

Delete this before my friends see this!!!!!

[@Teeleer]

As a Tau player, I'm watching this video to continue to just shoot off the other army off the table

[@anthonyblea6906]

overwatch is a trap in 10th

[@im_flat]

Ehh, depends on the unit. Certain things are plenty scary on the Overwatch. You don’t want your advancing infantry on the other end of a Baal Predator.

[@TOOTHBRUSHDUCK]

Still so unsure about why the community is so anti-gunline/ranged, like 40k isn't a range focused sci-fi that just has better melee options on some units if they get close enough to use em. Is this just an overflow from people who think tau shouldn't exist, hate the concept of skew existing, or play with 0 terrain?

[@samhunter1205]

I think it is a product of multiple factors. Shooting has traditionally been simpler, meaning there is often more skill in using a melee army. Skew has always been an issue, it is aone of 40k's two biggest design weaknesses, along with alpha strikes - both of which are usually most problematic with gunline armies. Then there the historical context of the game not having any guidance on terrain set-ups for many editions. I certainly know people who got used to the game with very early editions and basically think any amount of LoS blocking terrain is some form of cheating. Incidentally, skew lists are a massive problem. It is by no means gunlines that are the sole or worst culprit here, but it is another reason why I think 10th made some really bad design decisions (removing any form of restriction on army building definitely makes the problem worse).

[@Excellfreedom]

U don't. U just play the game

[@benjackson8731]

Solution: play space marines you have guns that are just as good, if not better have stupidly strong defence (armour of contempt has eaten an entire round of shooting for me in the past) oh and you get to play with other aspects of the game (like melee) really well -Tau player

[@Evil0tto]

Not helpful. "Buy a new army" doesn't help the problem.

[@benjackson8731]

@@Evil0tto sorry, was meant to be a dig at the poster boys having shiny rules that have to play better than anything else in order to sale, especially being better than specialist armies at their specialism without being bad at other stuff

[@XealotCoils]

​@@benjackson8731 I'm sorry but SM are mid? Guard tanks are better than all of SM tanks. Tau guns are better than SM guns. What weapons that SM have that are better? What?

[@benjackson8731]

@@XealotCoils it was more of a dig at the poster boys getting preferential treatment. compared a tfex, gladiator lancer, a broadside and hammerhead the other day. The only thing that stood out for the tau guns was dev wounds. Every other stat either didn't matter or was done the same or better by one of the others. Had a game where a brutalist dreadnought took a whole round of shooting to bring it down, only for a riptide (supposedly the tau's best defensive unit) brought down by a lancer in a single attack.

[@XealotCoils]

@@benjackson8731 getting preferential treatment for what? They don't have the best of anything, they just do everything alright. That is the whole point behind marines. Marines aren't the best at anything. And I've had a Brutalis die more often than it has killed. So what's the point you're trying to make here? Sounds like the Lancer spiked, it happens.

[@calif1411]

Couldn’t really watch bc of an accent

[@Paumonsu]

As an ork player, with more dakka

[@ParaFoxxen]

As a casual 1000p-1500p Death Guard player, you know luck must be on your side when playing against Tau. If Tau gets first round and you make one mistake, your opponent shoots your models off the table. When luck strikes hard - my PBC+Typhus killed a Stormsurge in Round 3, but that sure was one hell of a lucky game.🫣