How To BVR Fight In War Thunder (ft. MiG-29) | War Thunder

[@kermit5399]

Also to add here, it can be useful to get into the habit especially at high altitude BVR, to fire off your missile and then crank left or right to the gimbal limit of your radar (edge of the radar screen). This has two effects: the first being that because you are flying somewhat diagonally to your target, if they return fire, their missile has to travel further to hit you all the while turning bleeding some of it's energy (even with a sustainer). Secondly, because you are on your gimbal limit (anything from 50-60 degrees, it means that you can get into the 90 degree notch faster than if you were flying head-on, increasing the chance of beating the missile, with the caveat of breaking lock and trashing your missile (better than being dead). This applies to all SARH BVR gameplay.

[@bpop2148]

Also it's a good idea to dive down into thicker air to incrase drag on the enemy missile.

[@kingghidorah8106]

aw why di he kermit sewicid

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@bpop2148 Only sometimes though.

[@sol2544]

With aim 54, you can turn away and break much earlier if you are confident it will lock and track correctly on its own

[@FeatheredDino]

@@bpop2148 Most BVR engagements in war thunder don't really happen far enough for that to matter.

[@ErikMoroni]

The thing with phoenixes is that when you launch them from really far away, like 30-40 km, high, and keep guiding with tws, by the time they get to the target, they're really really fast. Then it becomes pretty hard to dodge.

[@boenk3742]

yep, its engine can give up to 1700 m/s aceleration but it burns 27sec, but it also means that it wouldnt loose speed after flying over 30km, for comparison aim-7F/M have 900m/s and 27ER 1200m/s

[@biromate2237]

@@boenk3742 and obviously the benefit of using the phoenixes are the safety you get from the range of the missile. You don’t even need to guide it about 19kms or so.

[@jetfighter200]

" they get to the target, they're really really fast. Then it becomes pretty hard to dodge." wouldn´t less an issue if air density would´be added so you can drag the missle to ticker air on the deck but because of lack of it the missile stays always the same velocity

[@MrBboy95]

I tend to fire Pheonixes below 30km whlie flying at least mach speed and above 3000m so missile still burns and doesn't lose energy when leading, on avarage I get 1 of 2 hits with this tactic per battle

[@MythicPi]

@@jetfighter200 air density IS modelled. Air density changes from temperature is modelled as well. Thats why missiles have longer ranges at alt vs targets in WT, its why you maneuvre worse at alt, its why engines use less fuel but have less thrust at alt, and why tank shells have different drops depending on the mpa

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Thanks!

[@JegSkaSkiido]

8:16 You wouldn’t actually know it’s a pheonix, because you can launch the 27ER using TWS and then lock the target when your missile gets close. This would appear to the target as if it was an ARH, despite it not being the case.

[@SeekerHead]

You have to use common sense to figure out what missile it is. If you’re facing US, you know it’s a phoenix if it does that.

[@commandoepsilon4664]

@@SeekerHead Then your only problem then is if you are fighting US and USSR, not that it ever happens given the match maker...

[@grumpyshumpy]

@@commandoepsilon4664 no never lmao

[@BedCat1432]

@@grumpyshumpy i got a us ussr match today but that was Givin I had a group half was on us and the other half was on ussr

[@Taurickk]

Great video! I'll be sharing it with a mate who has just gotten into BVR combat. He might not have the mig-29 but your advice on cranking, notching, and recommitting is extremely useful. One note. at 8:17 you mention you can identify the incoming missile as AIM-54 because you got the RWR nail very late, unfortunately this is not 100% reliable any more. The mig-29 has datalink for R27-R and R27-ER. They can briefly nail to fire the missile, then switch to IRST (from your RWR perspective this looks like someone who failed to lock), once the missile is close they can switch back to radar track and the missile will reacquire for terminal. From your end this appears exactly the same as an incoming AIM-54 edit: I see later in the video you covered this but with TWS instead of IRST :)

[@skilz2kil528]

You can datalink the r27er towards the target with irst too, it's actually stupid easy to do so long as your within IR range and gives a much more accurate track compared to tws.

[@albatross8868]

Limit is around 30km with hot targets like the f-14 and 20 for less hot targets like most of single engine fighters. Also if burner is off, lowers it more

[@TheDAWinz]

Thank you BVR goat, I will spread the word as your prophet.

[@acheronianrose]

This was really helpful, just being able to watch BVR fights without being in them. Thanks!

[@bpop2148]

"Pheonix is the only radar missile you can reliably dodge in the game" R3R: Am I a joke to you?!

[@helloturtle3749]

he said "Top tier" radar missile

[@cloroxbleach9222]

I've gotten a few 7km R-3R kills at 5-6km alt and I think it works because the motor burns for such a short amount of time the enemy doesn't even maneuver

[@SeekerHead]

Not a top tier missile

[@skilz2kil528]

@@cloroxbleach9222 Longest range r3r kill i have ever gotten was a 10km cold/side aspect shot down from 9ish km alt into a poor unsuspecting draken without rwr. Took its sweet time getting there though lmao. But for sure 5-6km is somewhat reliable as people dont really treat fox1's at those br's as a threat a lot of the time, and they dont see the missile due to short burn.

[@bpop2148]

@@SeekerHead Technically you can have them on the mig21bis which is 11.0, but I get what you are saying

[@nicholasjensen8016]

Did a test with the r27er. At 10km altitude I could kill my friend from 45km and it would hit in roughly 25 seconds. Absolutely nuts.

[@bob-hg5qj]

We just hope that f16 kids dont complain until it gets removed

[@nicholasjensen8016]

@@bob-hg5qj I’m more surprised that there are still so many Russia mains crying that it isn’t more op. Truly a bruh moment to not want the game to be balanced. Like I get r73s are cool and whatnot but the mig does not need them right away.

[@itzerikftw24]

Idk but it could be a combination of skill issue (not being able to use the r27 r/er good) and the fact they want to club everything like they were geting when the f14 spam was in power (i dont think it was that bad)

[@rekreator9481]

@@itzerikftw24 I think its because there are so many new players who just bought some tier 6/7 premiums and grinded into top tier with them.. I often see in games players with very low amount of battles and low level, which honestly just don't have enough hours with the game and cant compete in top tier... Then they complain how unbalanced game is, and here is the result. Experienced players are a minority, which is bad, because game should be balanced upon what those players can do with a plane, rather then someone who is not able to get a full potential from it. But since they are minority, much more noisy are the new players that suffer in the game. Sad what warthunder has become:/

[@quarreneverett4767]

@@nicholasjensen8016 you have youtibers and people that dont understand the game blaming the game instea of having fun and adopting better persoective. They thinks its like other games and just rng or somethimg crazy. But thsi game is a sim using real stufff. I study real stuff fro. Pilots and it replicates well in game

[@PvtPartzz]

The sparrows have to be bugged right now because they’ll consistently miss targets flying straight at you with zero evasive maneuvers. Twice in one match I had both the 7F and 7M miss an ai target flying towards me with maybe a 20 degree offset. Missile just under lead them each time. Other scenarios I’ve had with them is that they just lose their mind at the last second and swerve before hitting the target if there’s more than one aircraft within say 500 meters of the target (so every group of AI bombers/attackers).

[@anchovy1892]

Have had the same issue with the F-16 and EJ Kai. The Aim7Fs were way different last patch and it is noticeable

[@Storlans]

They arent Russian that the issue.

[@the_jingo]

Don’t launch them at AI

[@archerknight988]

This is the true top jet knowledge we need.

[@dushannjbg]

The bit about locking and unlocking from PD to TWS and back was brilliant, i wonder if you could do that with the tomcat and the viggen as well. Or maybe its the missile much as the radar. Great stuff as always.

[@cristobalalvarez5491]

You always could

[@dushannjbg]

Interesting, I never knew that. How come nobody talked about it??

[@MessInMines]

@@dushannjbg You can only do that if your missile has datalink (so only AIM-54 and R-27ER can do this at the moment). With other missiles you actually need a radar lock to fire them, otherwise they would just go and explode mid-air.

[@dushannjbg]

Thats what i was thinking, i just didnt know it was called datalink, makes sense though. Thanks anywho

[@desertfalcon1539]

​@@MessInMines may I ask you what Datalink does concretely?

[@saltysteel3996]

The AIM-54 has a range of 100 miles, reaches Mach 5, had 3 firing modes, and for long range shots it climbed to 70-80 thousand feet. It does none of these things in game. It's severely nerfed.

[@jetfighter200]

if you want that better play DCS, but even there when you shoot at an aware target your will miss

[@appa609]

@@jetfighter200 No reason they couldn't model it correctly once other countries get good bvr fighters. EC maps are big enough.

[@gadafwar5520]

It actually has loft, and about range it also has 100+ miles range. In DCS it was overbuffed, I had 140 NM shots on it(not kills, but NEZ would be about 80-100 NM)

[@Maktumekal_Ilzrei]

See the funny thing is, the Phoenix can reach that range in game. Just 90% of WT's gameplay loop, and the map sizes don't really work for such. Because to *get* that range, you need to climb to 10km or so and get that sweet sweet fuel guzzling mach 2 in the tomcat. The lack of lofting though, does definitely feel strange on the WT phoenix.

[@tergam4523]

Legit the Phoenix is such a meme missile. When you get a kill its funny but its not at all a consistent thing.

[@anthonyonorato9529]

I probably average to about 1-2 kills per match with the Phoenix. Sure, some I get 0 kills with them, but some I get 4 kills, but more than 50% of the time I get at least 1 kill. You have to be high and fast, and not every map is good for them. When I have a map that gives me enough space to get fast enough, I take minimum fuel with 6 Phoenix’s, blast to 700mph and start climbing to about 6k feet before starting to fire at targets that are no more than a 45 degree angle from me. It’s been pretty consistent.

[@HighRiskV]

@@anthonyonorato9529 I also do this for the lolz and then RTB when most phoenixes turn active, but usually I would have a better chance of winning the match if I just carry the aim7f loadout in the first. Which distance do you start firing your phoenixes if target is head on?

[@bpop2148]

@@anthonyonorato9529 Just wondering, how many of those kills are ML's??

[@kingghidorah8106]

if you launch them at low altitude like all the tomcats of course it aint effective (thus sideclimbing in top tier being a trick)

[@braedynhoward3644]

​@@anthonyonorato9529 Getting consistent kills with Phoenixes means you are relying on the stupidity of the enemies to not now how to evade it. I bring 2 Phoenixes, because it keeps my opponent on the defensive so I can Sparrow them. I get a kill with one like once every 5 games to so, and it's usually because they either flew straight and did nothing top evade (they thought chaff acted like flares), or because they ere too slow to dodge (also their problem for climbing like that).

[@CharliMorganMusic]

Thanks for making this video. These new radars are just beyond me.

[@Jesus-Skywalker]

This is the best vid I've seen from you, and that's really saying something bc before this I would have said that the sarh missile video you made awhile back was essential training for War Thunder players but this tops it. This is really well done. You da best!

[@rex669]

This video changed my life. Getting 2-3 kills a game now lol

[@kostab92]

Very educational video, I don't remember anyone covering this topic since aim7e2 was the top dog.

[@quarreneverett4767]

Tims variety

[@ccclll987]

Very interesting. In sim some of the tactics are less viable and the range advantage is still more important on average, for two reasons: when you notch you're very likely to lose sight on the persona attacking you, making the other maneuvers harder because you basically have to guess them, and the second is that you dont really see the missile or the range of the opponent, so taking decisions like when to re-engage is harder. Also, phoenixes are much more effective because of no rwr warning and of course you really dont see them coming when they're fired from afar. A tactic that, instead, CAN be used very effectively in sim (but I think probably not so much in rb) is that in sim you can lock and fire the r27er to force your opponent to maneuver (if you shoot first) and then, when he notches, you switch to the irst sensor making him believe the notch worked. Then you fire the r27t on the por unaware soul and finish the job. It makes wonders, for the same reasons as before, that is that targets lose sight/are not really aware of your exact position and distance and dont/cant see the missile fired.

[@Maktumekal_Ilzrei]

I keep seeing people say the Phoenix doesn't give RWR and I could SWEAR it does... I'm not typically facing them myself, another sim player here with my highest non-US being the 25K so I typically avoid the furball servers anyway, but every time I've launched a phoenix myself within the pitbull range, it pings off me, and from the fact many of my targets start maneuvering at about that distance, I'd assume they are getting an RWR ping otherwise they'd be trying to break my track way sooner...

[@ccclll987]

@@Maktumekal_Ilzrei it does set the rwr off but only in the last seconds, so sometimes you dont really have time to react

[@Maktumekal_Ilzrei]

@@ccclll987 Yeah but those last seconds are technically supposed to be like 10km too.

[@ccclll987]

@@Maktumekal_Ilzrei but it lasts a few seconds. Try sim and you ll see.

[@Maktumekal_Ilzrei]

@@ccclll987 I basically exclusively play Sim. With a very sparse few matches in other air modes.

[@DaBestEmperor]

After reading through a lot of the comment section I just want to add in my two cents here. I would say that the F-14 is still probably the best top tier fighter in game right now, simply because I think it fits the meta much better. Sure the F-16 may be able to outmaneuver it and has Aim-9Ls, and the MiG-29 has 27ERs but the the F-14 still has fox-2s with very good range and flare resistance and can carry 6 BVR missiles whilst the 16 and 29 can only carry 2 each. What this means is that even if in a duel between a 16 or 29 and an F-14 with good/equal pilots, both planes will defend each others missiles, but the 16 and 29 will run out of long range missiles far sooner than the tomcat which gives it a distinctive advantage as it can fight a war of attrition against its opponents. Now sure maybe you can just keep defending and push into the merge but doing so makes you slow and vulnerable to all the other Tomcat's Aim-7s or 9s and other fighters on the enemy team. Also it should be noted that there are always a couple monkeys that get Phoenixed at the beginning of the match which gives the other team a large disadvantage right off the bat. An F-14 can bring 2 Aim-54s to yolo to try and get speculative kills and still carry twice the amount of Fox-1s compared to the F-16 or MiG-29. Simply put the F-16 and MiG-29 are very dangerous at the opening of the game but as missiles are launched the Tomcats become much more dangerous as the match progresses. I have died MANY times because I run out of missiles and have to RTB whilst there are still F-14s pushing me because they still have weapons. Combine this with the fact that it is often USA vs everyone else at top tier, the fact that F-16s compliment the F-14 weaknesses very well and that everyone other than America is filled with premiums right now just makes the US completely dominant at top tier at the moment. That being said I don't think the MiG-29 needs to be buffed or anything, I just wish I could play a match that lasts more than 10 mins without it becomes a 1 vs 6 and not enough missiles to deal with the huge F-14 missile spam. TLDR; War Thunder is ultimately a team game and the F-14 fits that meta better because of its large amount of missiles. Giving the MiG-29 better missiles will not change this fact as it already has the great 27ER and everyone but America is filled with premium dumb dumbs at the moment. As such everyone (including Russia) will have bad win rates against America at top tier and nothing will be changing that. The F-14 may not be great in 1 vs 1 but it is spectacular in team games.

[@MrL4ne]

And your'e not even considering the f15 in this?

[@DaBestEmperor]

@MrL4ne My dude I made this comment before F-15 was even in the game.

[@MrL4ne]

@@DaBestEmperor i realize this now sorry bud.

[@illegalaryan823]

*taking notes like a good student*

[@Omniscient_01]

As a US Main, watching you break the 54s ankles so easily, really disturbed me 😂

[@Noahm_skrumsager]

Lets gooo bvr goat finally uploaded

[@Doomer35]

Best BVR tutorial on youtube.

[@FeatheredDino]

Phoenix is the king of BVR. In fact, the AIM-54C went 100% unmatched until the last 5 years or so - and it's a missile from the 70's.

[@SeekerHead]

this is war thunder

[@FeatheredDino]

@@SeekerHead Yes, I know. The Phoenix is still by far the best BVR missile lol

[@SeekerHead]

okay

[@okakokakiev787]

with the latest conflict r77 is king now

[@mikehawk2158]

The AIM-54C isn't in game and war thunder isn't representative of irl scenarios

[@KillerSniper55]

The Phoenix is still nerfed keep in mind. If it was at its full capability then we could see launches of 60km+. By the time it would get within launch range or the ER it would be going faster.

[@appa609]

150 km launches are possible. There may even be an irl kill at about that range.

[@KillerSniper55]

@@appa609 yes but we don’t see ranges quite that far at the moment. It would also have to be at quite a high altitude with a target flying head on the whole way.

[@MD-wn4ui]

Cant wait for when the 7M is actually modeled.

[@SeekerHead]

it never will be, except MAYBE lofting. The only difference is a mono pulse seeker, and all the SARHs act as if they have mono pulse seekers right now. So if anything, they’d just nerf everything except the skyflash and 7M, which i don’t see happening

[@MD-wn4ui]

@@SeekerHead L War Thunder.

[@subiesaint839]

Great video man!

[@Registered_Simp]

Was doing individual testing of the ER at long ranges and while it technically has less range than the Aim-7F/M, that is only on paper. If you loft the missile at 10,000m as high up an angle as you can and squeeze the trigger at long range, the missile will still be in a kind of "long-range guidance" state where it doesn't pull very hard to prevent itself from expending energy. This means that the upward angle you gave it is held for a while, and the missile appears to go as much as 3,500-4000m higher than you initially launched it at. This slaps it into even thinner air, making it have absolutely ungodly amounts of speed. Now gravity is helping it in the way down. Tested a shot at 40km and the missile hit the target at 21. While I admit the R-27ER currently is 100% the best SARH in the game, I all also say that most real in-game fights are determined by who sees who first (and therefore, who uses their assets the best. If an F-16 spots the Mig-29 first, gets a lock, and shoots before the Mig-29 can properly process what bearing the shot came from, the F-16 is gonna win that fight unless the Mig-29 notches. My general rule of thumb is that if you get locked, and then you either don't see anything, or see the aircraft in question about to shoot, it is far better to notch than to try and get something off on them (since you will likely just die in the process)

[@SeekerHead]

Okay, but if you do the exact same thing with the 7M you’ll get it to be longer range again. You’re giving one an unfair advantage and then coming to the conclusion that it’s further range in practice, when in reality you’re essentially just cheating the test.

[@Registered_Simp]

@@SeekerHead Oh I'm aware the same trick works with the 7M. Just found the time it takes to reach the target was nutty. Even if both missiles have similar ranges, the time it takes for ER to reach the target in either scenario is notably faster. Not trying to bullshit a response (at least not intentionally)

[@SeekerHead]

Ah i see what you mean, on an actual maneuvering target though not having the sustained burn is really gonna bite in those goofy 30km shots

[@Registered_Simp]

@@SeekerHead Yeah. Though the ER is better off than many because of the high weight. Super high Ballistic Coefficient (mathematical term describing a projectile's ability to resist deceleration)

[@xXRapToRiXxGamer]

As a sidenote, TWS seems broken atm for this plane (I know how it works on F14 and Mirage 2000). The targets jump around in this mode, once they don't the missile will be guided very nicely im tws in the general direction.

[@collander7766]

You need to set up a keybinding for “select radar target”

[@canadianbacon5716]

Very helpful video thank you!

[@madfoxlabs3436]

Eow, Thanks for showing that the Mig-29 and Russian missiles are superiors to the US counter parts in every way that matters. Illustrating that it doesn't matter that a F-14 can even find you and lock on to fire either AIM-7 or 54s , the Mig-29 player will always have the ability can simple overpower the situation and the US planes will have a roughly 80% failure rate and has little option but to flat out lose, even with 2 to 1 odds.......good to know the rules of War Thunder....Thanks for the info and the video.

[@DominicGreen432]

Thank you for this

[@jackgamer6307]

Me in my F-4J, looking at the 15 R-27s flying towards me at the start of the match: This is fine.....

[@bpop2148]

Launching in TWS is obviously very good however it can be tricky at times because you end up locking the wrong target in the end or simply can't get a lock on target, hey maybe you end up locking the enemy missile instead!

[@leto2582]

Yh I hate it tbh but it’s really good for low ground lock especially in 1v1

[@skilz2kil528]

Another thing u can do in a mig 29 is datalink the missile to the target with irst, and nice thing is it's a seamless switch toggling between them once you have a lock.

[@gsilvy4k570]

Thats why you observe their speed and direction to determine if its a missile or jet.

[@Vinicius-cp3bm]

Nice content, greatings from brazil

[@hectorjosuegarciacortez5895]

Thanks for all Bro I LOVE you

[@Gunship]

Useful, thank you!

[@galaxlordcz3933]

Great video, but just as an FYI currently the Aim-7M is the same as the Aim-7F, even in the files, but I guess you know that since you were using the F-14 to launch them and it doesn't get the Aim-7M. I'm also surprised by how much people cry that the F-16A ADF was added and that the R-73 wasn't, it wasn't because people were complaining too much, adding the F-16A ADF was always the plan, if not this update then the next one, and the R-73 wasn't added because it didn't work properly at first they hoped to fix it using simple config files, but it was found out that the missile needed a complete rework.

[@MagentaFerret]

Soooo once they give it R73 and R27ET it will become both the best BVR plane and best dogfighter. Sounds very balanced.

[@jetfighter200]

different jets are never equal there don´t exist something like "balance"

[@Frozander]

@@jetfighter200 That's a cope response. This is a video game they can artificially keep things balanced by not adding R73 until similar capabilities are added to other aircraft. WT does not need to be a flavor of the month sealclubbing where each major patch there is a new OP vehicle that destroys the matchmaker.

[@jetfighter200]

@@Frozander if you want a similar/better performance from an Aim-9 you need AIM-9X and only F-16C and if you don't want to get splashed improve your flying skills and learn to use chaff/flare and when to take a fight and when not

[@SeekerHead]

that’s why ive been so on the mig29 this update. all these shitters are going to complain until it is buffed into oblivion and be blatant power creep

[@eaststarling7805]

@@SeekerHead Exactly. All the Ameriboos whine whenever russia gets anything worthwhile. Meanwhile they get F-16-F-14 Combo spam in air rb and complain about balance.

[@andreikokot8927]

Note that R-27 in game is slower than IRL. In IRL it has mach 4.5 speed, but in game only 3.5 mach speed. Many things are gaijin nerfing regarding Russian tech. R-27 in game also has shorter range etc. MiG-29 also has worse specs than IRL. Radar same story. Everything Russian is heavyli nerfed.

[@leftnut7508]

The thing about how you defeated the phoenix is the fact you saw it coming and could see the smoke trail. The best launch profile for the phoenix is far enough that it's motor runs out of fuel making it unseen and fast. I tend to launch a bit outside the indicated predicted range just to let the missile burnout by the time it acquires lock. In ec maps, your just dead anyway. I'll put you defensive, close with more phoenixes to keep you defensive all the while going completely cold or notching the r27. Phoenix is still king in BVR, just can't be a moron with it. That first f14 pilot should be notching at the very least.

[@birthdwt8859]

That work in theory, but with a weak arh like the phoenix it's not great. I use the same tactic since the phoenix was released, but I just recently grinded the mig29 and its not a competition unless your enemy is very bad. Maybe f14b will help

[@CharliMorganMusic]

I really wish there were an objective at, like, 10km in the sky so American planes could have a real advantage

[@zdarky_6623]

you should make a video about how to bvr against mig29s with f16 or f14, because i feel like sometimes its impossible

[@Pouzdraken]

so glad I’ve never come across any competent mig-29 pilot yet. it’s kinda funny killing them using a phantom

[@bagelmaster2498]

Hey one thing i didnt see mentioned is how you can notch your radar against them where you see them fire first you launch as well then you go almost 90 in order to notch there radar but not far enough to break your lock

[@solid_fire9388]

great stuff thnx for the tips :)

[@Jojooooooo]

Speed is really important with these, so many times I die in the mig_23 because I'm too slow after climbing to dodge even phoenixes sometimes.

[@quarreneverett4767]

Yes one.kf.the biggest differences wth supers and props is speed is life force

[@UUUU-dn9wz]

Great and well explained video, but in this video you notched missiles that i am not able to notch so easily in game: for example at 6:22 maybe it’s the fact that the MiG29 turns better than a stock 23mla, but i’ve died multiple times in this exact situation, eg: the sparrow was launched a bit closer (~7-6kms) but I was near the ground (denser air) and turned 90 degrees and chaffed… the aim7 kept tracking and hit me. In my experience notching in this game doesn’t work very well (it certainly works worse than in DCS), while making aim7s pull into the ground has been far more reliable for me. Especially considering that the radars we have in game are from the 80s (f14 from the 70s) notching should be easier. There’s a reason why in real life IR missiles exist and are preferred under 5kms. R27ER being so fast will only make notching harder.

[@collander7766]

You’d be surprised at what an AMRAAM can do at close range, just sayin

[@UUUU-dn9wz]

@@collander7766 sparrows are not aim120s, and while impressive the air force still uses IR missiles at close range

[@collander7766]

@@UUUU-dn9wz I know. You said “there’s a reason why in real life IR missiles exist and are preferred under 5kms.” I’m just saying that today, even the non-IR missiles can do crazy stuff at close range

[@jansatamme6521]

@@UUUU-dn9wz the mig 23 incident:

[@russell33313]

lets see how well this works when the f14 fires 6 missiles lol

[@SeekerHead]

At that point you simply notch all 6 of them and he’s out of missiles with no kill to show for it. Not hard.

[@russell33313]

@@SeekerHead aha. Then you got half the team in F14s and 16 missiles your way. Aha simply dodge them all and kill them all. Simple

[@SeekerHead]

@@russell33313 if you’re insinuating you regularly get 16 54s launched from various f14s all at once, i would call you a liar

[@russell33313]

@@SeekerHead bro I'm just messing with you 😆

[@SeekerHead]

i can never tell in these comments man, please forgive

[@ardap3966]

Do you think its worth GE'ing at least the R60Ms and flares on the MiG-29? Or whats your opinion on stock grinding these in general (Happy new years btw)

[@SeekerHead]

I don’t find it worth the money really no. The only thing i’d recommend GE is countermeasures. If you have money in abundance then by all means though lol

[@crispy_338]

You can notch the F-16 radar at like 45deg. It’s so dogshit. Then I fly perfectly 90deg for 10-15sec vs a Mig-29 and he still kills me. Very cool.

[@neelpurohit4143]

dont forget the fact that a competent F14 pilot launches their phoenixes early at about 30km and maintains a soft lock until 25km, if the R27ER is getting launched at me from 20km the F14 has enough time to notch it (keep in mind the F14 doesn't have to hold a lock for the phoenix whereas the Mig29 needs a hard lock)

[@SeekerHead]

the difference is the phoenix is dodgable with 1 hand, ur eyes closed and the monitor turned off. There is no dodging the 27ER, which can also be soft locked if you watch the end of my video.

[@skilz2kil528]

Depends how good they are with their r27er datalink, i have been launching at people at 30km and keep it soft locked with tws till they ~15-20km and switch to hard lock. At that point they should have a r27 barreling towards them at like 4+ mach with maybe 5-10km of warning so probs 6 seconds max of time to react only to a rwr spike and an invisible missile due to short burn time. It's extremely potent when launched correctly - though i have seen people dodge them if they are quick enough to either notch it fast af or panick chaff and break turn at the same time, as rn the r27er will sometimes momentarily go for chaff despite a solid lock.

[@danielmostert993]

I do not have the MiG 29 yet but in the F14 if you are in TWS and you use your hard lock key it automatically switches to PD. Or it used to. I haven't seriously played it in a while. Point is with the R27 TWS track you may not need to switch radar modes if it still functions this way. Just turn on TWS and then hard lock from track and it should put you in PD and if you unlock it should have you back in TWS to guide it until you hard lock for the kill.

[@DeadSkyWT]

Top 5 planes after Apex Predators, would be epic

[@zackwaffen9210]

Shout out to your 1 patreon. What a boss

[@bubblesofthecoast6393]

One thing I’ve noticed about the Phoenix is thst I’ve not been pinged by it on TWS when it goes pitbull and I’m not sure if it’s a bug or not

[@ghost0d077]

Bro you have saved me I love my mig29 but I am still having trouble avoiding f16 missles and f14 missles

[@firmaneffendi2801]

12:50 turned out I used this trick by locking friendly ahead of me in TWS, launched ER into him, before switching target into real F-16 in SB. I'll called it Fox-1.5 😅

[@warthunderman2379]

The tws strat works with track IR

[@CharliMorganMusic]

My takeaway is that I should be using the AIM-54 because I'm gonna die anyway

[@blackairforceone]

You sir are a God... A religion! I worship!

[@IMasterChiefII7]

Did the aim7m get a nerf recently? I find that it now tends to fly off in some random direction about half of the time, and sometimes it just explodes even if I maintain lock. Especially when they try to notch while I’m in non-pd mode. The aim7m worked pre patch against notching targets as long as you were in non-pd mode, but now if they even think about trying to notch it will no longer hit

[@cataclysmicdelta1828]

Nah that’s just the f16 having a way worse radar than the f14 as far as I know

[@asadchatha4184]

White Bread is goated.

[@KillerAndro]

what are the tips for sub 5km Aim7 launches, as these for me are the biggest pain in the arse. They feel near undodgeable. I have had f16s lock me whilst flying perpendicular to them, dumping chaff and manoeuvring trying to stay perpendicular to the planes radar but yields nothing. I find it easier to dodge head launches in the same range where i generally weave towards or dive under the launch arc to force the missile to over shoot.

[@grumpyshumpy]

I find it hilarious how there were players complaining about the F-16 being so much better than the MiG-29. When I saw that this missile had hypersonic speed I knew they were smoking the purest copium. Meanwhile the F-16 is the only top tier jet with a realistic 9g pull limit while others are pulling 11g-14gs. Not saying the F-16 isn't over powered though. Six aim 9ls and it's power to wait ratio means you can go to space come down launch your missiles and rtb in relative safety.

[@lunarcultist6214]

It's not so much that the F-16 is more powerful, it's just utterly infuriating to deal with due to the tactic you've mentioned. Somewhere from 50 to 70 percent of my deaths is just due to some F-16 orbital striking from 10 kilometers up, and there's always one more just waiting for the first one to miss. And generally speaking, F-16 is in a more comfortable position due to having 6 equally good missiles, while MiG-29 gets 2 cracked ones (that can still be avoided, the radar is quite easily notched) and 4 crappy ones that require you to get into knife range and sometimes even ignore full afterburners for flares. MiG-29 is not a weak plane by any means, but it doesn't really feel comfortable to use due to how mid R-60M is compared to AIM-9L. On top of that I'm pretty sure R-27ER wasn't actually hypersonic, it just had an extended range compared to R-27R. I kinda just wish it wasn't as stupidly fast, but we'd get R-73s... Without the broken flare resistance, naturally.

[@grumpyshumpy]

@lunarcultist6214 right. Your normal small maps just favor the F-16 too much right now. EC maps make the MiG-29 and F-14 shine. Some new game modes or a revamp of how air realistic plays at top tier is what's really needed. Less players in one match, but kills counting for more RP and SL would be nice. 24 people in one small map with machines as fast as the F-16, F-14, MiG-29, each with 6-8 missiles just makes for chaos and less close games.

[@thomashanson6603]

I'm curious how this flight plays out with less altitude(or indeed, more altitude, where I imagine the r27er has even more of an advantage?).

[@Takamiya_Mio]

12:05 This TWS guidence is unhistorical, and It was a definite bug. Due to this, For now on, There is no DL update for 27ER without STT. You can't update position of 27ER from now on.

[@SeekerHead]

No but you can still fire it, unlock, let it fluids, then relock again. It’s still pretty much the same thing

[@cuddlefloofer]

quick question im using j7e and clearly we dont get radar missiles and stuff like that would would be the smartest thing to do when facing mig 29's , f16's because it seems like i just get targeted when i stick low to the ground or even wait for the furball to start?

[@Sky_King7]

Hey man, cool vid, you need to be cranking though, would help even more with that closure rate ;)

[@soto1649]

Dude do you have tips for using f4ejkai again f16,mig29,f14 horde?

[@braedynhoward3644]

The sad thing is, most of the high tier player base is to incompetent to learn how to do any of this, and so they will just complain about Phoenixes and 7Ms as though they are undodgable, and won't hit their own shots. I'm not saying they aren't powerful, but they aren't "free kills" as some have put it. I'm getting tired of the Mig 29 and Russia players saying the Mig 29 isn't powerful simply because their teams lose a lot, it is a VERY good jet.

[@jetfighter200]

if you don´t dodge and deploy countermeaures you deserve to be a "free kill"

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@jetfighter200 That is true. Most of my 7M kills are because they did nothing, or not enough, to evade.

[@stevenortiz9008]

The sad thing is,most of the high tier player base is to incompetent to learn how to do any of this,and so they will just complain about R27ERs and R27Ts as thought they are undodgable, and won't hit their own shots. I'm not saying they aren't powerful, but they aren't ''free kills'' as some have put it. I'm getting tired of the F-16 and America players saying the F-16 isn't powerful simply because their teams lose a lot, it is a VERY good jet.

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@stevenortiz9008 Great, awesome original comment.

[@spartanx9293]

0:43 yeah I got into an argument with spitflyer about that he says that the radar on the F-16 and f14 makes the aim sevens better

[@SeekerHead]

It doesn’t really matter in the end. All the radars and radar missiles are countered the exact same way. I found it funny how he showed an example of the F14 radar “not being notched” by someone being “almost entirely perpendicular” meanwhile the guy was flying damn near straight for him 💀

[@Jojooooooo]

Do you think the tornado ADV will be good when it comes in game? It has weak engines and poor manoeuvrability but had a powerful radar and skyflashes with a different motor giving it longer range and maybe different speeds.

[@farmcat9873]

But can you do this while 3 or 4 sparrows are fired at you at around the same time. Like say jet 1 shoots then jet 2 shoots 5 seconds later then jet 3 shoots about 10 seconds after jet 1 and the final jet 4 shoots at 14 seconds. Could you dodge all that .........😁

[@SeekerHead]

Yeah, u just don’t recommit and continue to notch and chaff all incoming missiles. That’s a foolish move on their part bc they’ll be out of weapons with no kill to show for it.

[@skaylars]

Mimimimi AIM-7M OP or AIM-7F OP US BIAS!! Gotta love that people call things OP when lacking skill.

[@robw8838]

Curious question... how does going cold defeat a locked missile or radar?

[@mrsteel250]

Multiple ways, you either outrun it or the chaff appears more prominent to the enemy radar than your plane (not too sure on the latter point as it seems the only way to reliably defeat a missile with enough energy to hit you no matter what in DCS World is to turn almost perfectly 90 degrees to the enemy radar, but it seems just turning anywhere beyond 90 degrees is reliable in war thunder)

[@andytheotaku6894]

Pulse doppler radar which was used in those missile and also radar can stay lock the target only when they coming to the radar itself fast so if u notch or go cold the speed which you heading towards the missile or plane will be really low so it cant lock

[@jaummm2854]

hey seeker, could you do a video about the best premiums to buy in this new year sale

[@Sneakymnms]

Great video. Now tell me how to beat the f-14 when you are in a Mirage f1c.

[@SeekerHead]

stop playing france

[@tomsonlarrson3318]

@@SeekerHeadthe real way to win

[@rpgenius2851]

u should do a video on the ja37D viggen

[@iconickiwi4952]

Hello, Can you please post a demonstration video for the British Phantom FGR 2/ FG1 on how to use it against top tier opponents, since it constantly faces mig29's and f16's. Love your vids, keep it up.

[@quarreneverett4767]

In sim it wont have to in the 10 .7 .3 bracket as the max br

[@Tom-jt1mr]

Genuinely doing everything in this video and I have found it totally impossible to notch Sparrows, and my R-27ER's get instantly chaffed in any aspect and can't ever connect

[@bwhittv1446]

So is it better for either, or both, the AIM-56 and R-27ER to TWS most of the way while it is in the air and then when it gets closer, to lock with PD or PD HDN or for especially the AIM-56, do i even need to do a hard lock with the radar?

[@SeekerHead]

for the 54, you can TWS the entire time, and in fact, once the MISSILE (not you) is within 17km of the target, you don’t have to point your radar on it at all, as it has its own radar on the missile that will activate at 17km range to finish homing in. The 27ER though will have to be hard locked once it is close to the target, because it does not have its own radar in the missile like the aim54 does. If you can, do the TWS trick, but it might be tricky at times to stick to the same target.

[@Monsieur_Petit]

hi Seek, how did you get the radar lead indicateur ?

[@braedynhoward3644]

12:33 Is this a glitch, or an actual capability of the missile?

[@SeekerHead]

Actual capability

[@braedynhoward3644]

@@SeekerHead That's pretty neat, thanks.

[@jacobbaumgardner3406]

I’m hoping we see the Aim-7P for select NATO aircraft in the future which was an M with the datalink for mid course TWS updates.

[@appa609]

datalink is gonna be a shitshow. It's literally the perfect killsteal technique.

[@jacobbaumgardner3406]

@@appa609 it IS a shitshow, it’s already here.

[@ITmotoNoob]

@@appa609 There should be assist reward in such case, equivalent of "according to intelligence kill" from GRB.

[@Anon-yi9yn]

Good tutorial. Unfortunately not every match is ideal as this. How about how to dodge BVR missile when you're 500-1000 meters from the ground?

[@SeekerHead]

there’s no difference

[@Frozander]

Altitude does not matter, in fact it is easier to dodge at lower altitudes because you can pull a lot harder usually. The main change here is distance you are not going to dodge an AIM7F fired from 2-3km from a head on. You will not have time to do it.

[@_S.T.A.L.K.E.R._]

@@SeekerHead I feel that a downward evasion would just result in crashing into the ground

[@SeekerHead]

you can do the inverse as well, bring it left or right and pull back in while slightly pitching up.

[@Anon-yi9yn]

@@Frozander hopefully my wings didn't just randomly rips off when maneuvering to dodge that missile (spoiler: it always rips off )

[@EnteSuessSauer]

why does trashingthe missile with chaff work? I started to only bring flares as pd / pdv's aren't chaffable? Why does it "trash" the missile then tho? I go 90° in such a situation, too, but rather to break the pd lock then to "trash" a missile with chaff. Could you pls explain that further? Would be interesting to know if there actually was any mechanic that made bringing chaff to top tier not a waste of space for flares?

[@SeekerHead]

Yes, because if someone is locking you in normal SRC radar mode (not PD, and thus can hold a lock on you when you’re 90 degrees) you’re screwed without chaff. Chaffing fools the radar in SRC mode. From there, you have to take into account the missiles guidance. All of them at top tier will be CW guided, meaning they can distinguish between chaff and the target. Going 90 degrees makes you look like the chaff, and this even the CW missiles will be fooled

[@arandomperson_e]

@@SeekerHeadthats not how it works. Pd try recognise the velocity of a target so it can tell what is ground, what is chaff and what is target. That’s primarily why most pd radars don’t have iff. By turning 90degrees the radar simply doesn’t see the difference between you and the ground so it cancel lock.

[@xXRapToRiXxGamer]

Dude!!!! Your vid made my Day. It worked like a charm. Normally i always turn cold for a pheonix but this is way better bc. i get to kill those F14 morrons LoL

[@braedynhoward3644]

Bruh, I'm an F 14 player :(. I only use 2 phoenixes, and they mostly miss.

[@MD-wn4ui]

Skill issue.

[@roebuckpayne]

So the mig now has the best bvr missile in game, and it is the fastest and most maneuverable jet in the game. Perhaps this is why it still has crap IR missiles? The thing only gets 2 bvr missiles, and you need to maintain lock on the target which means if the enemy decides to do a half loop dive and go cold, you just wasted your missile. And all I get after those 2 R27ER’s are 4 R60M’s. So basically any after burning jet just drops afterburner and pops a single flare and that missile is done for…That’s not as competitive as an F16 with 4 all aspect IR’s or the F14 which can still carry 6 sparrow or Phoenix missiles. I do believe the Fulcrum still needs it’s R73’s to be where it should be competitively. As long as enemies are paying attention and flaring, they beat the Mig29’s IRs. What the mig needs is the off-boar ability to attack from sneaky angles, forcing anybody flying at 11.7 to adapt and become even more aware of their surroundings. Overall I think it’d be a good change to get the R73 on this Mig, because if they don’t….you all know they’ll just add another mig29 after this one and THAT mig will get the R73 and we’ll AAAALLLLLL have to grind an extra plane just to have fun.

[@SeekerHead]

keep coping brother

[@Chineseguilt]

My brother in christ ALL IR missiles in the game from EVERY plane are defeated by paying attention and flaring, and thats how it needs to be. Holy fuck

[@v0id683]

In the start on how to dodge the AIM-54 why didn't you crank to the left or right after you launch your missile?

[@SeekerHead]

because you usually don’t know ur being shot at by aim45s until they’re within visual marker range. I was simulating this to prove you don’t have to be ready for it.

[@v0id683]

@@SeekerHead yeah but you were locking onto another aircraft, even if you are not anticipating a enemy missiles you should try to decrease the relative velocity between each other

[@spacekraken666]

Okay, now how do i survive BVR in the F-4F Phantom (Germany, 11.0)?

[@FreeAvenIGERI]

you just cant, F4F time is over in the current meta. Its like the F4E sure you can have a good round but followed of multiple bad rounds where you simply get smacked. If you want to play German Top Tier jets, play the MiG23 MLA.

[@Mibarri]

Dodge an ER in sim. In an F16. Really struggling to defend against this missile, especially since you do not know the distance of any enemy, locked or not.

[@CloudEcho]

must be nice to have enemies that never notch and just fly straight forward like npcs

[@SeekerHead]

have you considered that it’s a demonstration?

[@CloudEcho]

@@SeekerHead yeah - my point is that it would have been good to include what to do against defending aircraft because the 27ER while great at defeating straight line aircraft, seems very much weaker against CM and notch than other missiles in the game

[@Anon-yi9yn]

R73 will be added... Eventually

[@StiveGuy]

So how to counter when you are not in a top tier jet. Been getting clubbed by aim54's and seemingly can't do anything about it.

[@justus_invictus991]

how do you keep your radar locks? mine just refuse to stay on target and my missile is trashed

[@eleveendays]

what if your enemy chaffs and flares? hitting it without any kind of dodge move is pretty easy, this we know 90 degree and chaff dodge lol

[@Loganclarkemtb]

If they add the aim120 do you think it will be better

[@jansatamme6521]

no, its american, they'll pull a russian conspiracy paper missile from 2024 and put it on the mig and it'll have 300km range and moves at mach 11 with a burn time of 7 minutes and it can go active instantly and its radar can easily spot an f-22 at 500km