How To Fix Druid | Dark and Darker Discussion

[@craneotp]

Mem cap for forms is a good idea just so they have to build another stat but saying they can be everything at once means you haven’t played the class that much I know this video is just a rage bait but if you wanna build a jack of all trades kit that is actually good you need to drop 10k and there are a lot of counters to you if your dying to a Druid in trios because you got cut off by tree 9/10 times it’s a positioning issue when you build a good Druid kit you only have luxury of specking into 2 stats and if you have hella bread maybe 2.5 stats bear gets countered by shield and rangers panther gets countered by pdr and panther chicken jump gets counter by recognizing that he’s gonna do it and strafing one way when they jump at you they are locked in a straight path

[@thedapperrat]

Love the comment and its wisdom. Also as a public announcement since a few comments are pointing out druids current state, production of my video started pre-hotfix 67. Not saying their comments are invalid its just when I started Druid and by extension the shift forms were MUCH better off

[@marcelogodoy5510]

nowadays the druid doesn't even transform into animals anymore, if you watch a video of the kazaren who is the main druid you will see that he has been playing HUMAN and healer like a cleric for the simple fact that he has no reason to turn into panther and bear in fights anymore that a simple shield COMPLETELY counters the bear and the panther takes a hit kill for anything

[@ingohregg688]

4:01 acurate panther value next to no damage and gets 4 shot by a poor dagger

[@pryingwyrm9062]

Maybe shapeshift is on a cooldown but with stacks lack backstep on ranger?

[@Charlie-tq8cg]

I like the idea of needing mem cap for the forms but they have to add some more skills to the class so you can choose to play no animal or no spells

[@lorddrac7824]

Tell me you have not played druid without telling me.... Put another 200 hours on the class and you realize yes they can do a lot but never enough. The only time druid is actually good is in duos.

[@LaughingDepressed]

i feel with the hitbox manipulation in this game in general the models and hitbox should have like a "noodle effect". for example with panther and bear when you turn it should start at the shoulders and then the lower torso follows afterwards. i feel something should be the same way with actual player models as well but i dont know the proper way to put it into words other than more natural and sluggish instead of a beyblade spinning (think of how a snakes lower body flows when it moves) that way less hit box manipulation would be used. You could still duck swords and stuff but not just become a yoga enthusiast out of no where.

[@coltonpence1424]

These youtube shorts ain't so short

[@ingohregg688]

i really dont like the argument that they can do everything at the same time because he just cant not only is fighting in animal form just flat out worse than fighting in human form you have to build for the specific form its not like he has high burst on bear and high dps on panther at the same time since they each take their own attribute to stack and the higher gs you go the more value it is just to stay in human form. the only thing he really has in squire is barb health and slightly less damage in bear form, panther is terrible 85% of the time youl just die in two if not one hit, movement tech that goes on cd *arguably worse than ranger backhop* and some cleric esq spells, worse heal since its over time, and a ranged dmg spell that traded some offensive util for defensive util

[@dougobrien3361]

said "more powerful transformations like panther," then shows a video where the panther is 4shot by a dagger before you took 1 quarter your hp in damage. I think some of the stuff you mentioned could be adjusted but I'm surprised you didn't offer any buff options for the weakest class in the game.

[@thedapperrat]

buffs can easily come in the form of numbers. I also could've given suggestions for better perks and alternative skills to use along side a spell caster or shape shifter druid. The Panther being 4 shot already was hit by my barbarian friend and this was all in a squire lobby. I should also note that this is a very old clip. It took place during Hotfix 53

[@eatdirtdouche]

@@thedapperrat please go play panther. show me it surviving more than 4 hits from literally any weapon or spell

[@Asalent]

Requireing an item that cannot be supplied by squire to kill rat form in not a "skill issue" also druids build raw hp meaning they dont insantly die to fire bottles thats bullshit.

[@thedapperrat]

its not required it just makes it laughably easy

[@A3urden0nU]

It's SO simple. Cooldown on shapeshift. That's pretty much it! And then maybe actually give them a bit of range.

[@CurrySage]

Honestly, just having a casting time would be fine. The problem: There's already a casting time, but the instacast perk has a 100% pick rate, so you wouldn't know.

[@dalej4241]

I feel like ironmace will never make a balance pass on Druid that way

[@ivanfranebijelic7009]

Simple fix: instant transform perk limits you to 3 forms. This instantly lets them dramatically buff other stuff (like anything human related) without making the class overpowered.

[@dawnbreakerii204]

I think that this would not be enough to be honest considering most druids just use panther, rat, and bear forms.

[@ivanfranebijelic7009]

@@dawnbreakerii204 No movement tech makes bear form far less useful and you have to run up to someone in panther/rat/human to have a chance at hitting someone with bear. This is a risk

[@finny220]

Hot take but druid is garbage right now, besides their mobility their damage is absolutely garbage and completely useless in trios

[@Mrfaisalariffin89]

Tell me u suck without telling me u suck. Druid is broken if ur good enough. Its literally almost unkillanle in ruins and the mobility is crazy. Imagine being able to cross the entire map without fighting pve in a minute. U know nothing.

[@dark3y296]

@@Mrfaisalariffin89 its unkillable but your teammates will die because you only run away as druid

[@JohnSon-df3zz]

Druid In lower gear score lobbies sucks yeah, but you gear up for either bear or jaguar, it’s killtopia

[@craneotp]

@@JohnSon-df3zz have you played high gear vs good ppl he’s very hard to play when people actually know how to play the game unless there’s a caster and you have 50 agi the class is bad

[@dootie3698]

if they "nerf" forms suchs as using leap / chicken / and rat means you HAVE to buff druid with range ...... nerfing forms is nerfing mobolity and the whole point of druid not having a real range option is becuase they can gap close or run. chicken/rat serve the same purpose mostly , if they would remove the scale nerf to chicken and actually fix the hitbox with it then i would include it as a real form. forms are not spells , and should not need a nerf , but if they were then those forms needs buffs cause panther loses almost all "fair" fights and bear is easily kited or out spcae unless cornered. Im in favor of mobolity nerfs for combat buffs . most people btch at druid cause they run away and reset because they HAVE too they are not a class that press W key and have no range to chip you down. Since patch 69+ barb/ranger became meta if druid was this bad you would see alot of them but people dont cause being 1 tap in panther/rat or not being able to turn into bear and dieing is enough to make people not want to play it. hopefully in the future there are actually more spells / perks that you could play a melee human form or spellcaster druid and for go forms if you wanted

[@thedapperrat]

Provided that it becomes difficult for Druid to utilize both healing spells and shift forms I am 100% down with animal forms getting buffs across the board with exception of rat. As much as I love rats I'd say this is the most balanced state they've ever been in and any more substantial nerfs would make rat pretty deplorable. To be fair a lot of this video was done before the release of patch 69 and I'd agree that currently Druids are pretty dogshit but no amount of tuning numbers is going to fix the inherent broken concept of the current druid.

[@ZestyBirb]

While I agree that Rat form isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be, your conclusion is flawed Because of how risky it is to be in rat form, if a druid is using it defensively its probably because they are dead if they don't When a druid uses rat as a last ditch effort to survive an otherwise unwinnable situation, it can feel really cheep if it works That said, introducing memory to the forms already addresses this issue if the opportunity cost is high enough, using rat in such a way is no longer a free escape attempt since it would take up space in your build

[@CurrySage]

Also doesn't mention that HP pool shifts when changing. So if you drink a health pot and cast regen on yourself, you can heal to max faster than a warlock hydraining. Also, because of the way the calculation works, +Max HP rolls on gear carry over to rat form. So you can actually have a pretty beefed up rat with 30+hp pretty easily.

[@ZestyBirb]

@@CurrySage That's fair, I forgot +health applies after the max health cut for some odd reason that said, unless I'm missing something, rat form has a 95% heal cut. combined with the fact that you retain your proportional health between forms, you don't get any more healing as a rat and a beefed up rat makes that healing even less effective

[@thedapperrat]

I didnt know you could get rat beefed up that high but with regards to healing the 95% reduced phys and magical healing feels like it should be enough and if not can easily be increased. Realistically I feel like rat form is more of a "final nail in the coffin" type situation since the rest of druids kit is relatively overturned.

[@ZestyBirb]

@@thedapperrat yeah, like I said, the memory requirement for the forms would work really well as a limiter you said it best, each individual part of druid isn't too much of a problem, its the fact they have it all at the same time

[@AndrBR0]

Druid is a Barbarian, rogue and cleric , but worse. He lacks barbarian's stock damage and attack range of two handers, rogues' stealth aspect(also panther deals even less damage due to knee cap height) and cleric's multiple buffs. He is a mobility jack of all trades class with extremely limited ranged options

[@thedapperrat]

fair but at the same time he can close distance better than a barb making attack range less prominent, can jump as panther to hit torso and potentially head since players need to look down to hit you and makes up for the lack of buffs with raw healing and crowd control that makes you want to rip your hair out. As for stealth, check out www.youtube.com/@YourBoyBlinn , his fighter is sneakier than a rogue.

[@MooCow8140-e1w]

I disagree, the druid is great how it is, its rat form just need a speed increase by 2x or its a waisted ability.

[@MachineCorp238]

i love the content you are making i agree with this other comment i´ve seen, this channel is going to be big, keep going!! nice vid btw

[@thedapperrat]

thank you, I appreciate it

[@dark3y296]

druid is already unplayable in normal fights and u want to nerf it more... might as well delete the class. it's only good for running away atm

[@marcosbulhoes119]

this channel is going places dont give up on the grind👍

[@BlackVegie]

Yes druid shapeshift mastery/shifting a million times and chicken flying into bears should be nerfed into the ground... But then they'd need to hugely buff and rework each form so they can individually stand on their own. This is the part thats always left out of everyone's "nerf druid" whines - if they do a rework, how do you actually buff the forms too? Coz go and play any game without shapeshift mastery? Or with only bear form and no other animals? I hate chickens flying over rooms as well, but the class is literally unplayable without it. Panther swivelling at the shoulders is actually a really good suggestion though imo

[@thedapperrat]

For buffs to the forms I think a hybridization between the basekit damage tweaks of hotfix 67 and the scaling similar to prior hotfixes would be a good place to start. For a while Bear Form was inferior to using a spear in low level lobbies. I didn't do any hard numbers for buffs since realistically its hard to say how anything will feel without a reference point, and a lot of my suggested changes would shift druid around so much that giving strict numbers is kind of a shot in the dark. EX: if bear costed 8 memory slots and you couldn't instantly shift how much base damage and scaling should bear have? well that depends on how many slots rat takes and what changes rat needed to make those slots in line with its strength well then rat has [insert #] of slots and [insert #] moves peed and hp and so on. essentially I'd be doing the ENTIRE job of the devs and without a build to test anything so I tried to stick to overarching problems that could make druid easier to balance going forward.

[@BlackVegie]

@@thedapperrat I didn't mean you need to have all the numbers or do the devs job, just you can't have one side of the debate without the other. Its not fair to make a video called "how to fix druid" that only talks about nerfing it, and nothing about how to make it actually playable. If so the title may as well be "how to delete druid" not fix it. But imo its not even a matter of numbers. Damage is mostly fine, bear does less than barbs and panther does less than rogues but that's fair for a hybrid class. But what druid really needs is utility for mono-forms coz that's essentially what you're taking away with removing the quick shifting chicken dash rat jumps. So you'd need to add in some kind of gap closer for bear, escape mechanic for panther, etc. And especially if you go down the mem cap for forms route, then the utility would need to come from the animal forms themselves because you wouldnt be able to rely on spells like treant/roots nearly as much.

[@JimboBosomworth]

ironmace do not listen to this man

[@thedapperrat]

ironmace do not listen to this man

[@dawnbreakerii204]

I have had people religiously chewing me out for even suggesting nerfing "the weakest class" in the game. It's great to see people who know what the heck they're talking about address why the class is overtuned and 100% needs a nerf, primarily with the shapeshifting!

[@O9DH]

quit crying and just get better

[@thedapperrat]

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