How To Kill An Iconic Character - Chris Gore

[@filmcourage]

Watch Chris Gore on Why 99% Of Movies Today Are Garbage - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2PJYZ-fnNyGa9U

[@fellowcitizen]

An off-topic lead: I'm just watching a really interesting interview from Steve Paikin CBC about 'Beans': 'Tracey Deer: Telling Indigenous Narratives Through Film'

[@UrMomsChauffer]

I'm curious if Mr. Gore believes that the current audience is partially to blame for the way movies are handled by studios. I watched the video on 99% of movies being garbage, and wholeheartedly agreed.

[@richardcall7447]

You seem to have missed one of the PRIMARY reasons why 99% of movies today are garbage. CULTURAL MARXISM!

[@StardustX24]

Chris nailed this 100%

[@HankMeyer]

Kind of like Newt's and Hicks's uncerimonious deaths in between Aliens & Alien 3. Lame.

[@GOBIAS.INDUSTRIES.]

After Han died, I literally felt the slap in my face when Leia hugged Rey before even acknowledging Chewy...

[@Sol5Tice5921]

lol

[@gix2lee]

Exactly how I felt. I couldn’t believe it! So many unbelievable things where happening that not a lot of people noticed but I did and it was heartbreaking.

[@melodysdanceoff]

Some dip shit at the Star Wars story group wrote the explanation for Leia going to Rey and not Chewie and its because Rey represents the orphans of Alderaan... I kid you not.

[@greenmonsterprod]

Even more, I understand they actually filmed a scene for TLJ of Luke mourning Han's death, but they cut the scene out.

[@melodysdanceoff]

@@greenmonsterprod they cut it out to make room for a your momma joke and a drunk goblin using BB8 as a slot machine.

[@andrewstout5400]

"This Franchise is in the wrong hands" - could be the shortest best condensed review of Disney's work Ive heard yet.

[@LV-1969]

Sad part is I had hope because of the marvel movies

[@Youllpayforthat]

ive heard that from children 5 years ago, who is this and why does this even mean anything special?

[@RogueWolfArtist]

Ironically, the most well-handled death in my mind is Tony Stark.

[@Maxisamo1]

You'd think they'd have a plan or something, but instead they just threw shit at a wall hoping it would just work out

[@RogueWolfArtist]

@@Maxisamo1 - I get the approach, and plenty of long form stories of turned out great with little in the creator’s foresight; but it’s exponentially better to lay out the story’s skeleton. Rain Johnson in a way did this with Last Jedi as he took his time developing what would realistically happen with in the context of all that was canon up to that point.

[@harryhoffer9804]

"The way Han Solo was treated is offensive to me" amen, brother.

[@mauroalves317]

ileft the cinema after solo died of how bad it was !!most offensive was they add rey that just meet han to cry for him? too bad!!!

[@GrAYvTrAnE]

same same

[@Zavitor]

I wonder if they didn't spend much effort on his death because of how eager Harrison Ford was to leave that role behind once and for all, since he despised playing the character.

[@Muck006]

Luke was killed before he was dead ... and his murderesses are called Kathleen Kennedy and "rampant feminism".

[@PAGrunt]

@@Zavitor He couldn't have hated it that bad. Granted they probably backed a Brinks truck up to his house...but he came back in ROS

[@THEODSTKING117]

I just think it’s insane that Luke, Leia, Han, and Chewie never shared one frame together in the entirety of the sequel trilogy. That’s what stings the most to me. They had one opportunity to have those characters be together again and they didn’t even try

[@souperstar7050]

Totally agree. I've said the same thing. What a waste.

[@deanmartinassociation]

Jurassic World Dominion got some bad criticism, but they treated Jurassic Park's legacy characters with respect and actually had them together side by side, true to themselves and each other.

[@KevyNova]

They didn’t even bring Lando in until Luke, Leia and Han were all dead.

[@seanelstob5922]

They kept the OT characters apart so thoroughly, I had a theory that in the sale of SW to Disney, Lucas stipulated contractually that in any sequels, the 3 main characters could never be onscreen together. As I say, it’s just a theory but I could never rationalise why they wouldn’t take the opportunity to reunite everyone on screen while still alive.

[@KevyNova]

@@seanelstob5922they didn’t even have the new main three characters together until the third movie. I think Rey and Poe didn’t even meet until the end of the second one. The makers of these films just don’t understand that we can’t bond with the characters if they’re not bonding with each other.

[@gippy101]

It’s a disgrace Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie didn’t even have a single scene together in the sequels

[@Pondimus_Maximus]

Perhaps THE most egregious sin in cinema history.

[@JetEngine787]

Criminal

[@redicanprime1181]

Oh yeah... they made sure they didn't meet up. No one could compare to them.

[@DeathBringer769]

There's a quote from Kennedy or another higher-up saying something similar to "We can't have these old characters stealing the scenes from the newer characters." They literally had a pre-established agenda from high up that they wanted to kill off the characters (both literally and figuratively) to "make room" for the newer characters. That's how insecure they were about the quality of the writing and portrayal of their newer characters. They wanted to assassinate the character of the older characters (like how they ruined Luke's character,) and/or flat-out kill them off, to ensure the newer characters would shine more. And it ended up just making the whole thing stink rather than improving the newer characters anyway. Very counter-productive. This is likely why they intentionally *never* had all the main powerhouse characters from the old trilogy all have a scene together. They were too worried it would take away attention from their newer characters or make people just care more about the old (we already cared more about the old anyway though, regardless, so they failed there too.)

[@andyjcurtis]

The Bch betrayed us all. Fmism at its best

[@marychocolatefairy]

That was a great point about Han dying like a villain. I remember Mark Hamill complaining that he didn't get a reaction, and he said something like, "I get that there might not have been enough time to show it... but they somehow had enough time to show me drinking green milk???"

[@trevorgardiner-hardy8211]

That’s what got me, Chewy kicks his door in and Luke asks him ‘Where’s Han’ and they cut away to a different scene. I almost walked out of the cinema right then!

[@ebaugh7320]

@@trevorgardiner-hardy8211 Did you now?

[@ebaugh7320]

Ooh, sounds like an excuse

[@82dorrin]

Compare Luke's death with Iron Man's When Iron Man died in Endgame, it was powerful and emotional. You felt a genuine sense of loss. There were literally tears in peoples' eyes during the funeral. This was a character we'd gotten to know over ten-plus years of films. We were invested in him. Tony Stark died like a true hero, saving the whole damn universe! That's how Luke's death should have made us feel. Instead, people just felt confused. "Huh. Okay. That happened, I guess..."

[@rouninpanda6318]

@@82dorrin I didn't even understand Luke's death. Like he died from overusing the Force or something? It was as meaningless as Han's death. They turned both characters into parodies of their former selves, while Leia was stiff as a board.

[@diegodrenoso]

Send this video to the guys that killed John Connor in the last Terminator movie. Couldn't believe they killed one of the most important characters in the saga.

[@DarrenJSeeley]

I always thought if they wanted to 'kill' John Connor from the franchise, then they should do it, but not in the cheap way they did. It would have more meaning and gravitas if the character died to save the life of the "new hero" of the resistance. In a way, it's also passing the torch.

[@diegodrenoso]

@@DarrenJSeeley A last movie as a protagonist to say goodbye.

[@GrimGoblinLives]

It was what, third time at that point? Terminator is a mess

[@jandeenphoto]

The worst treatment of a franchise ever.

[@diegodrenoso]

@@jandeenphoto Indeed

[@radboy707]

Most shocking to me was how Disney killed off Admiral Ackbar. He was a veteran commander, he led the defense of his home world, Mon Cala during the Clone Wars, and then masterminded the rebel attack on the second Death Star at the Battle of Endo. The guy (fish) was a damn HERO and he is dismissed and killed off screen so they can introduce an unknown Vice-Admiral Holdo. I believe the mission was to eliminate(without fanfare) the established beloved characters and replace them with new, more shallow ones. Doesn't seem to have gone over too well.

[@EpicJoshua314]

It wasn’t Disney, it was Rian Johnson who killed off Ackbar

[@user-ed4fv9nd3b]

Even worse was how they put the actor. Tim Rose in tears after being unceremoniously given his pink slip along with a bad pun and a cheap cardboard Millennium Falcon.

[@notreallymyname3736]

You're absolutely right. Holdo was an insultingly unnecessary character. Akbar was an established, trusted admiral, and if any naval officer had to sacrifice themselves in a huge way, it should've been him. He deserved to have the acknowledgement that he honorably went down with his ship instead of a 4 second cut scene and an explosion.

[@Serrifin]

@@notreallymyname3736 I didn’t hate the character of Holdo, because even if it felt bad they were moving characters to the background, or just killing them off, at least the new characters were going to matter for more than one movie, right?!

[@faultyinterface]

@@user-ed4fv9nd3b I didn't hear about this, could you explain?

[@malbowz1257]

Not only did they botch up Han Solo's death, they assassinated his character by making him a deadbeat dad with a failed marriage and regression from general back to smuggler.

[@AndreNitroX]

Yes. In the EU Han was still a mess but he never went back on his character growth

[@jayce9206]

I mean he became those things after trauma then came back and reverted every one before his death which I think plays well into the type of flawed but triumphant character he was

[@garym6315]

They were determined to make that film a soft reboot, and reset everything back to A New Hope. Any and all progression was lost. In addition to the characters, the whole political state of the universe was reset. I feel sorry for folk like Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau who now need to try to come up with logical reasons and explanations for that.

[@sackofpeas2470]

@@jayce9206 The trauma that came from his son wiping out the Jedi because his uncle tried to murder him in his sleep because he felt he was "beyond saving". The same man who believed space hitler still had an ounce of good left in him, contemplates murdering his nephew because he senses darkness in him. At the same time Han showed in the oridge tridge that he wouldn't abandon his friends and those counting on him, yet he abandons his post and all those that looked to him for guidance in their hour of need against the rising First Order. Leia remains staunchly at her post, but she never had to prove herself as she was committed to the cause from the moment we were introduced to her, while Han has his entire character growth erased only to end up with him having a stupid death.

[@real_Nadventures]

another example they play for us of toxic masculinity. GO WOKE - GO BROKE.

[@rileyernst9086]

Another great death: Boromir: sacrifices himself to protect the ring bearer and to stop the ring getting into orc hands.

[@brickmissing8295]

Yes but it was to protect Merry and Pippin. Great death scene though - with the awesome Aragorn - Lurtz fight coming in the middle of it too. Jackson really outdid himself with that whole sequence (except for making Boromir’s Horn-of-Gondor sound like a kazoo).

[@rileyernst9086]

@@brickmissing8295 yeah you're totally right, in any case he dies like a the captain of the west and knight of Gondor that he is. And got to be the first Gondorian to fight in the service of his king for like centuries. I also love how Lurtz beats the crap out of Aragon, think of how much it would have cheapened Boromirs death if Aragon just walked all over Lurtz, and that is something you see a lot in movies.

[@BillyTheBigKid82]

Yeah, Boromir redeemed himself after trying to take the ring from Frodo, that added greatly to the effect of his death.

[@rileyernst9086]

@@markv785 You know atheists have no concept of hell, and nothing to fear after death. I'd argue that firstly the men of Gondor worship the gods of all that is good and noble, so I'd imagine their morals would be in line with that, what's more they literally have Mordor on their doorstep, which is essentially hell on earth, to point to as an example of what happens when you do not followthe right teachings and morals. Secondly they are a stable and strong nation and presumably have effective law and order, so if you do break the law its likely you're going to get caught and punished. So I'd argue that your point is flawed.

[@scottf5791]

Lol

[@jardelelias5625]

"Falling down an endless chasm is a villain's death." Damn, that's so true.

[@bcs2em625]

Right away I was thinking about Kirk kicking Klingon Captain Kruge in the face and him falling into the lava on the Genesis planet in ST III or Darth Maul falling down a shaft while split in half in SW episode One.

[@madscientist2621]

Well unless you're Gandalf, but that technically worked out in the end.

[@TheNevar18]

@@madscientist2621 not to mention Gandalf threw HIMSELF into the chasm to keep the balrog at bay

[@bcs2em625]

In DS9 Captain Ben Sisko also threw himself and Gul Dukat down into the fire pit to imprison him there forever, but the Prophets rescued Sisko out of it later.

[@Instarius]

What about Mufasa lol

[@wacokid30]

The fact that we never get to see Luke Skywalker react to the death of his lifelong friend Han Solo is unforgivable.

[@liamphibia]

Actually Luke did have a reaction to his best friend's death... In a deleted scene!

[@JimmyTownmouse]

They not only killed Han without any respect, they undid all the character growth from the previous trilogy first.

[@PAGrunt]

As I said, Dead beat dad? Check. Becoming a low level/failed smuggler? Check. Lost the Falcon for years unexplainably? Check. This was purposeful

[@ProjectRedfoot]

Honestly, that bothered me the most

[@PAGrunt]

@@GawainSSB While I am angry over what they did to my favorite Character Han, and later to Luke, you are correct. Finn could have been a really interesting character with a great story (former storm trooper). Instead, Lucasfilm made him the sequel trilogies Jar Jar Binks, and completely wasted the potential. Poe basically the same, but not as bad as Finn. No wonder Boyega is pissed.

[@SamvedIyer]

@@PAGrunt Jar Jar Binks is not half as bad the character as many would purport. He is vital to the forging of an alliance between the humans and the Gungans of Naboo, that eventually helps them prevail over the Trade Federation. Lucas knew what he was doing when he conceived of Binks as a clumsy character; he wanted him to be a character children could feel amused by. There is this wonderful channel named "So Uncivilized", and the gent there explains the various themes from Star Wars in a pleasantly concise way. It was rather bold of him to devote his very first video to appreciating Jar Jar Binks.

[@brettb8033]

I enjoy listening to this guy talk Star Wars lol. He is spot on!

[@lampad4549]

He must also hate the way Obi wan kenobi was killed off.

[@jameszbierski391]

@@lampad4549 the self sacrifice so he could help Luke throughout the three movies?.

[@Ryan_Winter]

@@lampad4549 Obiwan's death was the opposite, it had meaning, he did it on purpose to teach both of this students a lesson.

[@djandjb1]

@@lampad4549 - Disney trilogy fan was offended

[@theheavymetalhillbilly7152]

Well with Han...I kind of feel like they did that for Harrison Ford...he wanted him to die in Return of the Jedi...did they handle it well...ehhhh....but I knew one of the old guard was going to die in the Force Awakens...that was going to happen.

[@leftyfourguns]

"How to kill an iconic character" Sell it to a billion dollar corporation

[@TekkLuthor]

Put this on t-shirt

[@christopherdrohan8245]

*don't*

[@thelaughingfoxx]

Put it on a t-shirt with Disney font

[@lewstone5430]

Too late, I stole the idea and am selling t-shirts now.

[@Jakommo]

and put a clueless woman into general director position

[@mattclassics]

Spock's death is also great because it ties in so much of the Spock story in those simple words, "I have been, and always shall be, your friend," which brings to the audience not just all the adventures, but also the whole story of Spock and his relationship with emotion and the very idea of friendship. It's perfect.

[@ankaris5129]

Message Spock? None that I am aware of except, Happy Birthday, surely the best of times.

[@cluustudio]

Emotionally compromised

[@greenflagracing7067]

I don't remember anyone thinking he would be brought back to life in the next movie.

[@seriousmaran9414]

After the original series movies they should have moved on. Recasting has not worked well. Mostly because the scripts/directing have been disappointing.

[@cleekmaker00]

@@ankaris5129 "Were I to infer Logic, Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the Many outweighs the needs of the Few." "Or the One." "You are my Superior Officer. You are also my Friend. I have been, and always shall be, Yours."

[@Bezzell_Rocket]

Han's meaningless death was completely intentional. They turned him into a loser bad husband and Dad. Into a swindler and a cheat, not a smuggler who was late on one payment because he got boarded and was busy saving the galaxy. Then they chucked him down a hole like garbage so Rey could steal his ship and his best friend. Horrible.

[@19megamustaine85]

well blame Harrison Ford, he had the power to say no, but he wanted to die so blame him too !

[@IndyDefense]

@@19megamustaine85 No, blame the writers. They didn't have to give him the death they did. And they could've had him reunite with Luke and Leia for at least one scene before he died.

[@19megamustaine85]

@@IndyDefense like i said Ford could say no but hi didn't .

[@MrKodachii]

@@19megamustaine85 He wanted to die off yes agreed, but HOW it was done is what the problem is.

[@DemoDick1]

They literally hit the reset button on Han in TFA. When we first meet him in Ep1 he’s a shady, shallow, self-interested smuggler with only one actual friend who initially abandons those who need him and only changes at the last minute. By ROTJ he’s become an admirable, selfless leader who gets in the fight and risks his own ass for what is right. He had become someone else. Someone better. Someone noble and admirable. Then we get to TFA and he’s right back to being a selfish, self-interested smuggler again (also an absentee father/husband) and is dispatched in a meaningless way that’s only designed to make the audience feel shocked and saddened. Well, we were indeed shocked and saddened. Not that Han died, but that the filmmakers did it with ZERO respect and understanding for a character that millions grew up loving. If the Disney sequels had any balls at all we would have seen elements of the EU in the movies. Leia becomes a beloved political figure who eventually becomes hated when her parentage is discovered, for example. So much wasted potential.

[@farharbor3178]

Regarding his comments on Han Solo ... it's insane to me, that with doubtless thousands and thousands of people working on these films .... they failed to put Mark Hamill, Carrie Fisher, and Harrison Ford in just one shot together (let alone a scene). Now, in terms of plot and real life circumstance -- that can never happen again. That chance has been missed for all time.

[@rkitchen69]

I think it speaks to the level of incompetence and lack of planning on Disney's part. The whole sequel trilogy is a train wreck.

[@baronvg]

You say insane, I say unfathomable. And yet here we are, years later and it’s not only happened but history. Absolutely disgraceful the big 3 never even shared the screen one last time. Even more maddening when it was obvious the producers never even had a story planned out ahead of time.

[@dominantprime]

It was because JJ Abrams admitted in interviews, they did think of versions of the Force Awakens story where Luke for example had a bigger role, but he always ended up stealing the show from Rey because he would be too bad-ass. So because they needed to force these new characters on the audience, and make Rey especially the new hero, they needed to sideline the old characters (especially Luke) and basically neuter them and make them suck as much as possible. A reunion of Luke, Han and Leia would've been the obvious highlight of the film, and stolen all the spotlight from the new characters. I suspect that also goes for Han having a more meaningful death, he is basically just a side character at that point, that is thrown off a bridge, not a main character anymore. The big thing about it is supposed to be the New Main Characters reacting to it and shouting "No!", but they barely know the guy, so it's completely pointless. If it was Luke, Leia and Chewie reacting to Han's death, and Han actually dying to save everyone, it would, again, steal the focus from these New Characters we are supposed to care about. Well, we know the end result: no one cares about these new characters because they all suck, the writing sucks. And the fate of Luke, Han and Leia sucks because that is by design. You can't force the audience to care about the new characters, you actually have to make them a character we care about first.

[@standarddef8769]

We'll always have the original trilogy, and those are the only three films that really matter

[@theblackestvoid]

It's truly bizarre Disney didn't pull a Disney and make it happen. I hate Hollywood play it safe shit but I find it unbelievable that not even an exec said "Why aren't they even in a scene together". Incredible the amount of power Abrams wielded for such a dogshit director.

[@stingray4567]

Im really torn on if Han or Luke had the worst death - they were both treated disgustingly.

[@christopherdaffron8115]

At least Luke had knowingly accomplished something before he died.

[@emberfist8347]

@@christopherdaffron8115 Except it makes no sense he died.

[@kevinerose]

@@christopherdaffron8115 Do you mean the part where he sucked the milk out of a teat of an alien seacow?

[@yamatoking]

I think there's a change in their Agenda on how to portrait such themes by the new comer directors or whatever.

[@stingray4567]

@@christopherdaffron8115 Looking for positives in how those characters were treated in the disney trilogy feels like a desperate search for scraps.

[@princesse0920]

My dad was both a Star Trek fan and a Star Wars fan. When Spock died, I remember it always gave him chills and made him tear up a bit. When Han died, I think he was so pissed off he just sat there in silence and disbelief.

[@constancemiller3753]

My son said "he KILLED HAN SOLO. Turn it off" and walked out of the room. He only came back for Mandalorian.

[@Thornbloom]

About as much as NJO dropping a moon on Chewie.

[@ghekor]

@@Thornbloom Say what you will but Chewie went out like a boss in that book, saved a whole bunch of people and died a true hero...

[@f.r8580]

This guy is such a gem, actually being honest in this day and age is rare. Intelligent, well-read AND honest? Chris Gore.

[@hillarybm92]

For sure, A big part of the problem are sites like Rotten Tomatos and "woke" social justice reviewers like Chris Stuckman who give a false sense of which movies most people actually enjoy watching. Most people don't want to be lectured about female empowerment or see contrived race switching- it feels factory made.

[@williamrayburn5314]

And may I add...a pure and honest, fan. You can tell. Cheers 👍🏆

[@williamrayburn5314]

@@hillarybm92 I enjoyed at some point watching Chris Stuckman, yet I never considered him to be a woke or to be a sjw....maybe I truly don't know what one of "those" are, really. I personally feel he is a bit too smug and whiney for my taste. KZbin, and well life in this day and age affords luxuries of choice... I drifted elsewhere. Honesty and intelligent criticism, as well as fandom are popularly underrated. Just one man's opinion...😉

[@AkuraTheAwesome]

@@williamrayburn5314 I understand what you mean. I think Chris Stuckman is a valuable critic with excellent observations of the art, but he is sometimes quite pretentious and can often seem "fussy" or out of touch with modern audiences. I always take his reviews with a grain of salt.

[@BoleDaPole]

One thing Al and Tip Gore did well was raise him.

[@GraceandWisdom]

Interestingly enough, like Spock, Tony Stark had a similar death scene in "Endgame" as described by Mr. Gore. He sacrificed himself for the greater good, he had his closest allies and loved ones nearby, He even had a funeral scene. So it's true that beloved characters need all of things to have a sense of closure.

[@depressedasfook2893]

@BK Beatty omg the joke thing killllsss me the only jokes after a death should be bitter sweet ones like happy talking to starks daughter when she says she wants a burger and he says ill get you all the burgers you want cause it's a joke a callback to iron man 1 and is also painful cause she is like her dad whose dead its a painful reminder

[@F34RDSoldier805]

@BK Beatty it shows how the new people in charge of making the mcu films want to get rid of the past and make their own thing. They would even go out of their way to disrespect a character and the audience in an attempt to get a cheap laugh. They just have these huge egos and it really shows when they talk about the fans and how they treat the source material.

[@joebove4]

That was my immediate first thought. As a huge Marvel fanboy, I was sad to see Iron Man die, but damn did they do it right. He died for a good reason, he had a final big hero moment, his friends and allies all had an opportunity to react to it, and it even directly called back to Tony and Steve’s iconic argument in The Avengers. They NAILED it for Tony. And going back a bit earlier, Yondu’s death in GotG2 was perfect too.

[@shinobi-no-bueno]

@@F34RDSoldier805 MCU? We were talking star wars

[@JOECANDELA22]

Very good example Ian.

[@MIKELIN8]

Spock's last words to Kirk make me well up every time: "I have been...and forever shall be...your friend". Also, the change in Kirk's demeanor from elation when the warp drive kicks in and he congratulates Scotty, to concern when Scotty says "Captain, you'd better get down here". He turns, sees Spock's chair empty, and he knows...

[@randywest1185]

And in his funeral oration, when his voice cracks as he speaks of how "human" Spock was. I remember it well.

[@gregsmith7949]

Such a powerful scene. Film making at it's best.

[@godzilla0083]

Spock's death to me is the greatest movie death. He died heroically.

[@joeross6523]

Top 10 movies ever made.

[@datacipher]

Not “forever shall be” - “always shall be”. “Forever” would be awful! lol. Would turn it into some medieval cheesy line. It was a tour de force of acting by shatner and Nimoy. It’s always been fashionable to bash shatner but when all he can do is mumble a plaintive “no” and slumps motionless in shock, it conveys how the dynamic and assertive Kirk has no idea what to do now - absolutely perfectly and realistically. the depth of both his anguish and the fact that he’s never faced a loss and failure like this before. The main themes for him in the movie, facing mortality and failure.

[@Glitch969]

Han being put into Carbon Freeze in ESB was treated with MUCH more respect than his actual death.

[@earlofdoncaster5018]

Disney also degraded Han before they killed him en-passant. They turned him into a worthless deadbeat dad.

[@MALICEM12]

Happened to alot of Harrison Ford's characters unfortunately

[@map3384]

It’s the feminist narrative in all areas of society to destroy the strong moral character. Make him look like a fool who doesn’t take his responsibilities serious.

[@elzoog]

Yeah, didn't they learn from Vietnam that it's supposed to be death BEFORE dishonor, not the other way around?

[@danmccann8813]

Additionally, in Solo, they devalued his character for being a great pilot and the Kessel Run honor he held by making it more about the virtue signaling robot's data core being integrated into the Falcon's Nava computer. It was subtle but it's there.

[@misterpinkandyellow74]

How is he a deadbeat dad you moron?

[@cameronc1509]

Bill Whittle said it best “princes Leia found out about Han’s death and looked like she just got a letter saying she’d maxed out her credit card “

[@BedlamAndBones]

Do you not recall her reaction to seeing Alderaan destroyed? She looked, at best, inconvenienced because all her stuff was gone.

[@dr.boring7022]

@@BedlamAndBones I cant argue with you there. That was her home for 19 years.

[@anthonycameronnajera8471]

Soooo... Carrie Fisher's acting was bad?

[@davidvidya9657]

@@anthonycameronnajera8471 The death star didnt make enough explosions to make leia's soul break

[@thelegolistme3250]

@@BedlamAndBones thats Leia being stubborn and not showing weakness in front of her most hated enemies

[@davidshoemaker4437]

I agree, Han's death did it for me and that franchise as well. Consider Yondu from Guardians of Galaxy, in just two movies, they give his character a better death, with more meaning and respect. Most people never even heard of Yondu before the first movie, and the theater was filled with red eyes and tears during the funeral.

[@mikestorms4752]

and that after even stallone's character told him he would never recieve the glory and respect a scavenger gets after he dies

[@kalesmart1]

Yeah that got me teared up man, it was honest, vulnerable and heroic

[@shaunom8363]

I remember using this as an arguement as to why DCEU movies' characterization needed work bad. Both Yondu and Superman (dceu) had 2 movies before they got killed off. Why were people more emotional over Yondu's death compared to Supermans.

[@davidshoemaker4437]

@@shaunom8363 I have used this as well when talking about the lack of character development, as well as storytelling with most of the DCEU movies, there are a lot of great visual moments but no real connection to the individuals.

[@dragonstryk7280]

@@mikestorms4752 It also gave weight to his sacrifice. He had no illusions, when he gave his life, as far as he was concerned, he was going to hell, and that was that.

[@bryanstillman2125]

Rogue One's two lead characters were not iconic by any stretch, but I felt like Rogue One was the best-written of all of the Disney Star Wars movies, and I really appreciated the emotional effect the deaths of those two characters had on me. It felt necessary for the story to resonate with the audience.

[@BethelAbba]

And yet now comes the news that they're going to do a Rogue One "Prequel" ..... to milk that one-shot movie. To me, Rogue One was one of the finest post-Lucas Star Wars moments. It told an insular story that had a complete beginning, middle and end. It was masterfully done, well acted.... and we knew the stakes were high the moment things took off. The fact that noone survived only added to the brilliance and beauty of it. Now Disney wants to take a complete dump on it and milk that one as well.... just to see what kind of $$$$$ they can pick from our pockets. Not only am I outraged and saddened by this.... I've come to see that it completely cheapens what was actually beautiful about it in the first place: A non-modern hollywood movie that held merit on it's own. Imagine if Hollywood had tried to do a "Prequel" to The Maltese Falcon.... or worse.... Casablanca????? How horrid that would be.

[@MooKyTig]

I doubt most people could name a single character in Rogue One, except for Vader. I can't.

[@BethelAbba]

@@MooKyTig You forgot the CGI Leia that shows up at the end.... Suffice, I could probably name all of them, but K2S0 stands out because I am a HUGE Alan Tudyk fan and follow him everywhere he goes. (You'd be surprised at where this man has turned up!!!) That said, you're right... most people forget the characters because they all died... and simply remember that it's a pretty good movie.

[@peterw8835]

@@BethelAbba I love that droid but I never remember his name, he is just the murder droid voiced by what’s his name, right him! I cannot remember the names of the two Chinese actors and Jiang Wen is one of my favorite actors. He is just Guy with the big gun.

[@julietvalcouer]

I was just relieved the a-holes were dead. I would have been fine with just killing Jyn and Cassian, actually, the others felt cheap just for the shake of shock. The movie could have won back my respect if they'd left Cassian dead in his fakeout and then just had Krennic shoot Jyn in the back without her pointless "I am the child of that annoying bitch who couldn't follow directions and your ex-chief engineer whom my new friends kind of killed sorta-intentionally sorta-by-accident" speech. Krennic's the only character in the movie I have any sympathy for.

[@fandude7]

Chris 100% nailed it. Those in charge did not care about their audience nor fans.

[@citycrusher9308]

Sadly, he did not nail it 100%. If he did he would be hounded on social media. The new flicks blow because they have been damaged by feminist infiltrators. He can't say that

[@fandude7]

@@citycrusher9308 Ok. 95% nailed. You're right.

[@citycrusher9308]

@@fandude7 It's painful!

[@kieroncampion120]

@@citycrusher9308 Feminism is precisely why the sequel trilogy are the only Star Wars films worth watching. The original trilogy is racist sexist garbage.

[@davidjacobs8558]

@@kieroncampion120 If Feminism is so great, make your own Franchise. Maker your own stories and characters. Don't f**k with existing Franchise that people love. If Star Wars was racist sexist garbage, why use it as your propaganda platform?

[@marklechman2225]

I have no idea what you’re talking about, the Star Wars Saga ended with part six.

[@FunSizeSpamberguesa]

The Star Wars Saga ended with part three. I know a lot of people look at the prequel trilogy with nostalgia goggles, especially after the most recent trilogy, but they're still bad movies full of wooden acting and CGI that really wasn't that great even at the time. They're better than parts 7-9, but that's a really, really low bar to jump.

[@kingnothing8570]

@@FunSizeSpamberguesa i don't entirely disagree they were fine movies expecting them to be 4-6 level good is delusional but the recent trilogy was garbage maybe that's insulting to garbage (canonically, they tell an okay story as a standalone i guess tho i tend to have a trash taste i media).

[@DenderFriend]

Just plug your ears and close your eyes and pretend they don't exist...

[@gotchewz]

@@FunSizeSpamberguesa I agree fully. Right now it feels like Hollywood encased a great trilogy in a shell made out of shit. You just can’t watch all nine movies without ruining your enjoyment of the original movies. The only sensible thing to do, if they really want to attach the Star Wars name to other movies because of money: Make reboots or tell stories so far in the future or the past of the fictional SW galaxy, so it could not ruin the existing story. I just don’t see how they could dig themselves out of this sh*thole. Star Wars is 40 years old, why not leave it alone and start something fresh that is just a remake. They successfully did it with other old franchises, like Battlestar Galactica. Be meta about it, SW in the 2020s can’t be the same SW made for people from the 1980s.

[@thatHARVguy]

@Mark Sheymus Lucas had a cool big picture, but he needed better writers and director to make the small pictures he couldn't. Lucas' ego was the major flaw.

[@Elohist2009]

If any characters deserved a ride off into the sunset, it was Han and Chewie.

[@smokeyverton7981]

At least Chewie got a respectable death in the Timothy Zahn novels

[@MatsThyWit]

If you wanted Han as played by Harrison Ford to ever be seen on film again you had to accept Han was going to die. That was the only way Ford was going to agree to return and basically everybody knew that.

[@desslaven7935]

And that's why I'd rather they never brought back the beloved legacy characters at all. I'd rather have them totally absent than be treated with such utter dismissive contempt.

[@soundbombin23]

@@MatsThyWit Still shat the bed with his death..ah well.

[@Blaaz91]

@@smokeyverton7981 Chewie was killed in Vector Prime, by R. A. Salvatore, but he still got a respectful death.

[@Myrdden71]

I think part of what proves Mr. Gore's ideas is that, decades later, fans can still tear up when watching Spock's death and funeral, knowing that he's going to come back. It is just so well done, it still gives chills. Han Solo's death, on the other hand, didn't even affect me in the theatre while watching it, and I grew up with him and Star Wars since I was a small child. Huge difference in how their deaths were handled.

[@AS-fu1kd]

Same, it was sort of a flat "okay, that happened" moment I enjoyed some flashy lights but all I all was just lamed out by that movie

[@robertreid2931]

Absolutely. I can queue up Spock's death scene and only that scene to this day, and still feel the emotional impact after many viewings. I *want* to watch it again. Solo's death scene had no impact and I have no desire to see it ever again.

[@Seluecus1]

It kind of felt like their was a radiating aura of annoyance, in theater, at how Han's death was handled... Like, it was upsetting but not in a sad way.

[@davyboy9397]

When Spock died I cried. When Han died I got angry at the movie writers and was completely taken out of the movie ....

[@deadlyrobot5179]

Joel's death from TLOU 2 was terrible too.

[@davyboy9397]

@@deadlyrobot5179 I couldn't watch it. It was so horrible.... I hope the same fate that happened to him happens to the game creators ......

[@buuuuuuurn-the-heretic]

@@davyboy9397 Amen, brother

[@jhonathantejada3345]

Something in common their deaths have they are empty of purpose, they died for nothing, their deaths meant nothing, they left nothing, not to any character and specially not to the audience

[@davyboy9397]

@@jhonathantejada3345 Nihilism... Something many of the Hollyweird crowd believe in (or don't believe in I should say 😅)

[@Vpaid]

I'm so glad you addressed this. In Phantom Menance, Qui-Gon Jinn was mourned much more than Han Solo did in Force Awakens. Admiral Ackbar was killed off screen without ceremony in The Last Jedi. It's jarring how poorly the writers understood how to handle the legacy of these characters that had been with the fans for decades.

[@aredjayc2858]

Ackbar should've been the one to replace Leia, Holdo was a piss poor OC

[@TheNiemand]

I strongly suspect that the writers are actually non fans of the franchies. Otherwhise I cant explain why some characters (or shows) get so poorly written the longer they run

[@undeaddave9671]

They did it like that on purpose. To destroy the original characters so they could pump up their own lazy low IQ trash.

[@samr8603]

Someone had daddy issues and wanted revenge.

[@MrValarMorgoth]

it almost looks like they are doing this on purpouse

[@lathspell87]

I think the death of Borimir is still one of the greatest death scenes put to film. Heroic, redeeming, and heartbreaking as well as expertly performed by the greatest actor at dying on screen.

[@drica76]

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@davidfarrer4332]

Sean Bean gets plenty of practice! 😀👍

[@DavidRLentz]

Boromir

[@_Amilio_]

Han Solo's death was a metaphor for how Disney killed the Star Wars franchise

[@AS-fu1kd]

And everything else they get their greasy paws on

[@TBass050]

Kylo in that moment was like the franchise… okay, they’re teetering on good, where does this go? And then completely overtaken by the dark side. New blood destroyed what we liked about the originals.

[@yankoelgueta1116]

@@AS-fu1kd their disgusting filthy fat greedy paws

[@Oblithian]

I would be ashamed to bear the name Disney, and Disney's heirs should be pissed off about the tarnishing of their literal name.

[@toxic_revenant3]

Which they’ve been actively doing with Marvel now ever since Endgame.

[@Hustada]

I think some film studios actively despise their core audience right now.

[@boogerstastesalty]

Without question. Their egos are such that any disagreement with how they choose to run things is met with contempt. They also don't care about the legacies of the properties they own. They only care about leveraging the name of the franchise to tell the stories they want to tell because they know no one will see their drivel if it's not Trojan Horsed inside something that people love.

[@Hustada]

@@boogerstastesalty couldn’t have said it better.

[@josephmcbride1239]

That is why they have their media buddies write hit piece after hit piece about the fans.

[@Zac_Frost]

That'd likely be why so many of them are failing lol.

[@nathanmorgan3647]

That's what happens when communists get hired and remake movies from eras of anticommunists

[@eggchin9721]

"how the character of Han Solo was treated in his death in The Force Awakens was offensive to me." I felt that...

[@david2727]

I bet Harrison Ford could give a shit..he hated that character so much I bet he came up with an idea to make sure they can't bring him back! And that's why I loved it!

[@Larsholden702]

@@david2727 Man! I felt that! Stop being so offended, It was a fine death scene. It was different. How? Well, i think this video explains that pretty well.

[@iamawatcher9201]

@@david2727 Except they did bring him back in Rise Of Skywalker.....

[@chriskelly6574]

I felt that.

[@krissuyx]

"They're just movies of space wizards for children." ...in which heroes turn into depressed failures in their old age and die horrific deaths, with pretty much nobody left to mourn their passing.

[@mikavirtanen7029]

Yeah, i must say that i was not very thrilled how Kirk met his end in Generations movie at the time, but compared how it would be done today that can be considered as an epic death scene...Oh My.

[@krissuyx]

@@mikavirtanen7029 At least Kirk got to say his last words and had a nice little burial(even if he did get buried under a pile of rocks lol).

[@FP194]

@@mikavirtanen7029 Kirk died helping save a solar system and the crew of the Enterprise D so his death was meaningful

[@mikavirtanen7029]

@@FP194 Nothing to do with meaningfulness, i just wanted Kirk's swan song to have more panache...because that's what the character always projected.,..at least to me.

[@slygoose7740]

@@krissuyx I actually hated that, I personally believe any Starfleet officer worth a shit would've brought his body back to earth at any means, not to rot in some nexus world.

[@MrApostolis78]

The man literally needs a form of therapy after watching disney star wars. Literally how we all feel. I feel you man.

[@Oblithian]

Go play KOTOR, it helps (probably skip the remake)

[@rynehall9990]

In the 70s a few scary movie s advertised having a doctor in the theater in case the terror was too much for a viewer..maybe movies nowadays should have grief counselors in theater lobbies to help heal the pain caused by the current wave of mass ineptness running Hollywood off a cliff one vandalized version of a proven winner at a time.

[@Slaphappy1975]

To imagine Han bleeding out in Chewies arms as he sacrifices himself for one last heroic deed, then Chewie letting out the most agonising howl... goosebumps.

[@Zaloomination]

Wow dude. You arent kidding

[@robwalsh9843]

In one comic series, Chewie died and Han was left broken.

[@irregularassassin6380]

If they wanted Rey to use the Falcon (which they clearly did, they wanted it to be her ship), they could have used that scene to have Han hand the Falcon over to Chewie, and tell him he needs a new co-pilot. "I know she's young, and inexperienced. Kinda a lot like that farm boy we picked up once, remember? Like us in the beginning. You need her Chewie, you need these kids. Don't be alone." This lets Harrison Ford step out like he wanted, gives Chewie the respect he deserves, sets up audience interest for Solo (which they had to have already been planning), and brings the new cast onto the Falcon as its crew. If they had the original cast together, you now have Chewie, Luke, Rey, and Finn at a minimum on the ship in the next film. Let's say Finn learns how to fly as Chewie's co-pilot, while Luke takes on Old Ben's role teaching Rey how to use the force (and avoid the dark side). Or, have Rey do both things and have Finn do something else. You can split its story line with that crew going to do something, while Po learns how to be a leader from Leia since they both stayed with the Resistance.

[@synnical77]

Cliché.

[@carbon-based-lifeform9172]

@@synnical77 would have still been way better than all 3 of the new sequels put together. Instead we got this woke dumpster fire.

[@Cattle_Snacks]

The film “Logan” handled the death of an iconic main character REALLY well. Perfectly to me.

[@costaricashitposting7140]

yeah you right

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Agreed..Excellent performances ..pretty good scripts & characters..introduces X-13..the mutants kids..the torch being passed , the heroic sacrifice/ end of several X- men..

[@jamesmaybrick2001]

@Alpha Shepherd ...im not crying....just been peeling onions....

[@JetSetRadiumFuture]

I agree, Logan = GOOD and Han Solo = BAD.

[@eggsbenedict2251]

....you will die with your heart in your hand.❤😓

[@danielmartin8913]

The fact that we didn't get to see Luke's reaction to learning of Han's death in TLJ is inexcusable! Been saying this for years: the audience needs to see the other characters' reactions to an onscreen death! Thank you Chris Gore!

[@philipmakupa5662]

Ahsante

[@rugr82day]

Have to say a female fan looking forward to a new female lead in Star Wars I was so disappointed in The Force Awakens that I haven't seen the other 2 movies. In the mid 90's I read a lot of the books that followed Return of the Jedi. So I got to see adventures with Luke in his prime being a badass Jedi. I got to see Han and Princess Leia as a married power couple, even their kids had adventures. Also got to experienced Leia hiding out on Chewbacca's homeworld. Not all of the books were great but it was great to see the adventure continue. I did finally get a tiny taste of Luke in his prime in the Mandalorian series. Wish they would do like the Ghostbusters franchise did with the reboot and pretend the last 3 movies never happened.

[@chrisstory563]

Luke reaction was cut in TLJ. yep it ending it being a deleted scene. how disgusting,

[@jimjam51075]

This is why nobody's looking for JJ to write or direct since he started on Star Wars.

[@chrisstory563]

@@jimjam51075 It's that chick that Lucas past the torch to. Kathlyn Kennedy. she been screwing star wars more then JJ. btw, there been dozen of rumors that Harrison Ford been lobbying to get Solo killed off since return of the jedi.

[@Dav_Inver]

Imagine the scene of Han Solo flying for the last time the Millenium Falcon, which is being teared appart by enemy ships. He is holding the line and keeping the enemy busy in a desperate effort to give his allies a chance of surviving. Bu the enemy force is so overwehlming that eventually he goes down with his ship or self-destructs it, after saying a last goodbye words to his friends. That would have been epic

[@jaeylo]

Perfect end to his arc too. Selfish to selfless

[@arthurgodwin6571]

Han Solo's death felt so cold and ugly. I was wondering why everyone was saying the movie was so great. Mr. Gore's observation that he was killed in the way a villain would be was quite astute.

[@ironcladnomad5639]

Disney/Lucasfilm didn't care how you felt during or after the movie, only how you felt leading up to your ticket purchase.

[@nifftbatuff676]

I was also wondering the same thing. I was scared by the positive reactions to that movie.

[@tiergeist2639]

This abomination even calling a movie, is an infinite insult to all movies itself. It's just perversion of wt culture and destroying it

[@mikavirtanen7029]

Well, just wait and see how Ford will get Indiana Jones killed next. It's bizarre how anyone has that kind of hatred of the very characters that propelled them to stardom. It's not just directors and producers, actors have always the choice to say no.

[@Сайтамен]

@@mikavirtanen7029 Ford hated Han so they killed him off. But he loves Indiana so they keep making movies even when he is 80...

[@Brian_B505]

Han's meaningless death (and Luke's) was both literally and figuratively a character assassination; as someone else commented, they were unceremoniously thrown out like trash.

[@geoffreyharris5931]

Well it sure got rid of a lot of customers, middle-aged white guys who had been buying their stuff for themselves and their families for decades.

[@ShaneJoshua1980]

They need to retcon the sequels as the more I think about it from a storytelling perspective the more I think it was just a complete waste of time.

[@Rabijeel]

Friend asked me after the Movies what I think. My Answer: *"Hello, I am the "meaningful Storyline". I was laid off for cutting unnessesary expenses by Disney after taking over."* Another friend laughed and we had a short discussion with them disagreeing that the Movie was bad. Then I asked: "Well, had you more fun discussing this now or watching the Movie?" That was when they realized how bad the Movie really was. The second one? Half a year later, Friend told me he had not seen it yet - and we were in the Cinema together on release. He just entirely forgot about this. Fun Fact: This happened half a Year later again.

[@brivington2011]

I completely agree with your comment. Shame on you Disney, shame on you.

[@hulkhatepunybanner]

*Luke dies? Gawd. Will Abrams and Disney ruin everything?*

[@TheKulu42]

I remember seeing a video of a little girl watching that climatic moment in "The Empire Strikes Back." Luke's beaten and wounded. Vader addressed him as "Luke." The great reveal comes. And the little girl is hugging herself, almost in tears. 'Oh, he's going to turn to the dark side ... don't do it!" Yes, NOW I understand why Lucas had that moment.

[@Dowlphin]

Excellent storytelling can push the boundaries of what material is acceptable to children. Also consider "Avatar - The Last Airbender" - an animated kids show involving plenty of themes of political scheming, war, struggle, all the deep stuff. And kids love it. Feeding our children a cheap diet is folly not just in the physical sense. It is a patronizing attitude of adults who feel insecure in the face of children's often less corrupted state. Fear that they might actually start understanding politics better than adults do.

[@HolyMith]

@@Dowlphin The trick is to show them it through the lens of characters they can empathise with. Then they are more likely to understand (at least subconsciously) the larger themes at play. Avatar did that incredibly well. I can tell even though I sadly only watched it as an adult.

[@Rabijeel]

Yep. And what Disney made wrong in all the Ways possible. In the Cinema one Guy shouted "goddammit, kill him already" short before Ren stabbed Han. Noone protested or minded it. Noone mindaed anything. Second Movie, some People had talks midpart of the Movie on.

[@WizArtChelo]

@@Rabijeel So sad that Han's death was so poorly done. I usually cry a lot when my favourite characters die, but I felt nothing at all with his death scene.

[@jeremypnet]

And that’s why you need to watch the films in the order in which they were made and not the in Universe chronological order. The prequels are are a massive spoiler for the best film in the whole series.

[@irorosun6990]

You've expressed how telling a story that goes deep into our hearts is a true art. Han Solo example, a 3-second death, left us speechless - it was so hollow. That's a strong and striking example of what not to do, how to destroy years of an iconic saga.

[@glenmcl]

They missed a huge opportunity to reuse "I Love you" "I know" In a scene with Leia holding Han right before he dies.

[@Dooger414]

Holy crap...

[@mattneal5257]

Jesus - not everything can be dragged out and loaded with fan service. He died. He died trying to save his son from a terrible future and fate. He died a hero - the same way he lived. They can’t make people happy all the time. Han was my favorite character and I thought his death was handled well. This nitpicking by Star Wars fans gets really old. He fell down an endless chasm that was filled with white light - signifying that he was at peace

[@hcaz5818]

That would be just as awful as what we got

[@danielh377]

What you just wrote gave me a greater emotional reaction than the scene itself did.

[@BogusLion]

Forget about that, they missed a great opportunity to have all OT characters together one last time on screen for at least 30 minutes, then you could kill them all, I just wanted that, all together one last time, but no, the idiots with their propaganda and agenda had to kill them one by one and have them all separated through all the movies...

[@charmawow]

Any director who calls himself a `fan` of Star Wars who doesnt have a scene showing Chewie and Leia, mourning Hans death is NO fan of Star Wars.......on top of that he`s also a useless storyteller and director.

[@francoisregis2155]

But but but the mystery box is the answer 😂😂😂 im kidding but you are damn right

[@oldmanwinter3597]

Leia went to REY when they arrived after Han's death. The had known each other what? 2 or 3 days????

[@tsrav5]

@@oldmanwinter3597 They didn't know each other. That was the first time they ever met.

[@Taojas]

Spot on. They absolutely botched SW in every way.

[@Grimloxz]

But when I and others made THE SAME ARGUMENTS we were called “silly fanboys”, “nerds with fan theories they couldn’t let go”, or just “didn’t understand the ‘high art’ of ‘subverted expectations’”… 🙄 Those sequel movies were PATENTLY BAD and it’s clear the writer/directors had no understanding of the characters, source material, and little actual creativity: “First Order”, “nu-Death Star”, “the Resistance”? Oy vey…

[@edthewave]

Not gonna lie, I just discovered this channel a week ago and have been practically binge-watching watching all of the videos featuring Chris Gore. This is all very interesting.

[@filmcourage]

Welcome to the channel. We still have more segments to post with Chris in the coming weeks.

[@PaulaAllenPaulasPlace]

Just found this channel two videos ago. Watching videos NR after another.

[@Suger5zero]

Is anyone noticed how movies nowadays also stay away from physical closeness. He never seemed to see characters dying in each other's arms anymore. It's always looking at them from across the room

[@AS-fu1kd]

There seems to be no genuine affection in movies between characters at all anymore. No chemistry anywhere

[@The_Husband_of_Jane_Lane]

The way he explained Han's half-ass death, is spot on. I'm glad I didn't see the sequel trilogy.

[@ken2all]

I wish I could unsee it

[@lovelovelove5744]

Lucky

[@brunsomarrr]

@@ken2all I stopped after ep. 8. absolute trash

[@jakemoran9655]

i think the sequels sucked but it’s a hell of a lot easier to critique them having actually seen them than taking someone else’s word for it

[@roadrash1021]

I went and watched them. But they, like the prequel trilogy, will never grace my home.

[@KamilDevonish]

"if there was a child and we had just finished watching Return of the Jedi, I don't know that I'd want to skip to the next movie to see what happens." This line right here is why no one will be watching any of these movies 100 years from now. They don't have any overarching sense of connection. There's no throughline. One movie ago, Han was a triumphant hero giving up his selfish ways to be part of something greater. The next he's a washed up hasbin knifed through the heart by own son and tossed down a chasm. That's not storytelling. That's just story beats put on screen for shock value.

[@stretchmonster]

Not true. They'll be watching these films a hundred years from now - in film schools, on how NOT to ruin some of the most iconic characters in cinema history.

[@stoneyd63]

My kids and I loved the IV-VI and even the prequals to some extent that we watched them annually. Since TFA, we ended our tradition. The story arch was so broken.

[@Giloudu27]

@@stoneyd63 You stopped watching Star Wars annually as a whole or just did not add to the roster the one Disney made ?

[@lisetteeliseparis7070]

Exactly!

[@FZJanimated]

thats what alot of writers do now a days. kill the popular character and replace it by a new character that is a one dimensional mary sue or gary stu.

[@danieldb631]

I figured a character like Han Solo would have gone out in a "Last stand" kind of scene.

[@rifz42]

ya it was so stupid, if they had to kill him it should have been him instead of hodo jumping into the enemy ships.

[@anastasiosgkotzamanis5277]

he should have gone out in a "against all odds-but never tell me what they are" space battle, first being afraid of dying, then accepting it, then going all in, throwing Solo-like quips and one liners.

[@JStryker47]

Yeah, that would've been way better than just having him straight up murdered - and by his own son, no less.

[@charlesborden8111]

Sadly the main problem, in my opinion, is Harrison Ford was whiny enough about his character (which he is about a lot of the people he played) for so long that the only way to get him to sign on was to promise to off him unceremoniously. When he doesn't like a project he become a lazy actor.

[@BishopWalters12]

I could forgive it if A Force Awakens focused mostly on the big 3, It should've had Luke, Leia and Han sharing the majority of the screen time. I think episodes 8 and 9 could've been more passing of the torch and focus on the younger characters.

[@richardbell7678]

I saw a very good death scene in, of all places, a children's cartoon show-- "Roughnecks: Starships Troopers Chronicles". The character Higgins has stepped on an antipersonnel mine that will detonate and kill him when he steps off of it. CHAS, a combat humanoid artificial sentience, places its foot on the mine and is about to throw Higgins clear when Higgins says to CHAS "But you'll die.". CHAS replies "I was never alive.". Higgins is thrown clear and runs off to the waiting Roughnecks. CHAS stays on the mine, until it is surrounded by 'bugs', when it steps off and takes a horde of 'bugs' with it. Higgin's closing voice over for the episode was "It was decided that the CHAS was not cost effective. It's a good thing us roughnecks are cheap.".

[@RavengerX1]

Thank you for reminding me of that scene, it was such a damn good one. That series doesn't get the love it deserves, it was great for what it was.

[@BillosUK]

I still remember that scene from a kids show I watched 20 years ago.

[@heyyourlenscapson2588]

This was such a great series.

[@FrederickLopez]

Great interview. It’s crazy how Han Solo and Kirk die on a bridge in the 7th installments of their series. The deaths that rubbed me the wrong way were Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, and then John Connor in Terminator: Dark Fate.

[@Free-JackWolff]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. It's just a movie but respect your audience!

[@Hustada]

Connor’s flippant death was on purpose In my opinion.

[@geekhomeworld4248]

I agree, though I am such a super fan of all those franchises. Terminator Dark Fate wasn't a bad film, but I love all of those films even the not so good ones. Very astute observation about Han and Kirk and how they died.

[@boogerstastesalty]

To be fair, Kirk died being crushed by one. haha

[@ShawHortonMusic]

I think Luke’s death itself was actually pretty fitting for his character, but it wasn’t nearly as emotional as it should have been because his role in the rest of the movie was so poorly written.

[@toob1979]

Reading through the comments section months later brought to mind another "death" handled better than both Han's and Luke's deaths: The destruction of the _U.S.S. Enterprise_ in _STIII: The Search for Spock._ People sat in theaters, stunned, crying for a ship. An iconic ship, mind you, but still a ship, and not a living, breathing character. When something made of metal and plastic generates more emotion than two heroes, something went terribly wrong.

[@halciber]

Excellent point. It was painful to watch the Enterprise blow up in ST3. I didn't want to believe it.

[@37view37]

Nice statements. Although I simply enjoyed the first 3 Trek films, and maybe I’ve seen most of the original series over 50 years of chance encounters, this “death scene” gripped me like no other. Immediately after seeing this film on its release I bought an 8x10 of TV show Kirk and framed it in my office…on the sheer weight of this scene and McKoy’s answer to Kirk bemoaning his choice, asking, “What have I done?”: “What you had to do, what you always do. Turn death into a fighting chance to live.” Even today, that response to the “death” reverberates as a prod to me to carefully choose the best option in response to life’s dilemmas. Really superb writing that stayed true to the iconic “character” of the Enterprise.

[@MajorGaton7]

A bit different but they did this really well in One Piece as well. The first ship the crew has for years was as much as part of the crew as anyone else riding her. I had never cried because of an anime till then

[@ankaris5129]

"My God Bones, what have I done?" Even Kirk understood the gravity of destroying the Enterprise.

[@MigoLinden]

@@37view37 As far as the iconic death of a ship goes, I was weeping when the TARDIS died in The Doctor's Wife....

[@censortube3778]

They shit all over all the original characters, I was so done when Rey was fixing the falcon and showing up Han Solo. I knew at the moment that Star Wars was dead

[@Criner05]

The minute "The Force Awakens" ended, I thought "that was the worst Star Wars movie."

[@missourimongoose7643]

At this point I just wanna see Hollywood burn

[@nochpo4230]

I have never met a woman who could successfully change a car tyre on her own, much less care to learn how, yet in the movies these women always seem to be technological/engineering geniuses. They just don't reflect human nature anymore and so they feel abstract and tasteless.

[@fingersmcoy]

@@nochpo4230 yes. majority of women today, what do they gravitate toward? nursing. not engineering. our brains work differently. but saying that is sexist lol

[@blacklake13]

To add to the value of the Spock death, it was 100% *in character*. It was selfless from a human perspective, but from a purely analytical Vulcan perspective it was the only logical option - everyone dies, or one who will die anyway saves the others by dying in a prescribed manner. (In case this was missed by anyone, he of course states as much explicitly.) It worked possibly uniquely well for Spock.

[@cleekmaker00]

"I never took the Kobayashi Maru test until now; what do you think of my solution?" He was fulfilling the mandate of a Starfleet Captain; solely and totally responsible for the lives and safety of his Crew, including the sacrifice of his life, to carry out said mandate.

[@UrMomsChauffer]

Learn the lesson of Optimus Prime. Though it was only a cartoon, the amount of backlash received over his death, caused Hasbro to not only cancel future theatre releases, but completely rewrite the ending of the G.I.JOE movie, and they had to bring back Optimus Prime from the dead.

[@art4truth]

Ah, someone else who brought that up. :)

[@UrMomsChauffer]

@@art4truth great minds...

[@tigerbread78]

Thing is, Prime's death helped make that movie so iconic, we all know the reason for Hasbro killing off so many characters, but to me it showed that this war was real, with real consequences, as a result Optimus was elevated to become a true pop culture icon. Obviously I'm pleased they brought him back though

[@art4truth]

​@@tigerbread78 The deaths fit well with the story the movie wants to tell. Compartmentalized as a stand alone movie it all works. It's when you take into account the treating important returning characters from the series as death scene extras (not a satisfying character arc or send off), and the lasting effect on the series of Prime's death that there are problems. Keep in mind they intended to replace Prime with Rodimus for the rest of the series, and only brought back Prime after backlash. Though he does come back near the season 3 end the damage to the series was already done as it only got about 4 episodes for season 4 and then was canceled. I wonder why Megatron sort of survives as Galvatron when Prime actually dies? Assuming Prime was replaceable, but Megatron wasn't seems odd as they're the basic building blocks of the good evil struggle in The Transformers.

[@johnfoster7950]

I've watched two videos of the guy. He communicates so clearly how I've felt about movies. Thank you.

[@chand911]

I can understand why someone who just foams at the mouth when women are present would value that.

[@KopperNeoman]

@aarswft Hah, you think really highly of the women he knows if you think they'd make him that lustful.

[@michaelhart7569]

You can tell he was really choking up a bit, trying to keep his emotions under control, when he was talking about the improper death of Han Solo.

[@JA-SF2TX]

I saw that too but I feel his disappointment and emotions.

[@BlayneWeaver-hg8nb]

"It needs to be done with some level of respect"... Absolutely. Chris put into words what I couldn't quite put my finger on.

[@tzeege]

Leia should've been there, crying next to mortally wounded Han. Leaning over him and whispering: "I love you." And Han replies: "I love you too."

[@josephmcbride1239]

Don't want another "I know" lol?

[@jaythejayzer]

or han saying "I love you" and leia saying "I know"

[@tzeege]

@@jaythejayzer You're right, modern Star Wars is all about "role reversals". Women are absolute Chads.

[@mistaboogeyba3358]

Funny thing is, this should be the bare minimum

[@MSPplusmore]

@@tzeege someone hasn't seen Jedi

[@angrypirate6666]

I'm sure it's already been said but that's why Boromir's death in the LotR film was, for lack of a better term, perfect. He started to get corrupted by greed for the ring and then redeemed himself in his sacrifice. He didn't have a funeral BUT the characters still acknowledged him and he's not just forgotten about/glossed over. You need a reactionary scene anytime something big happens. You can't just off a character or something and then be like, "Aaaaand moving on."

[@AS-fu1kd]

Movie makers nowadays just expect people to have a 3 second attention span and not care what happens scene by scene

[@mysticonthehill]

And even dead Boromir continued to play an important role and wasn't just discarded and forgotten.

[@nastrael]

The crazy thing about Boromir's death in the films is that it's *even better than the books*. Peter Jackson and Sean Bean took one of the most bland characters in the books and made him one of the most beloved in the entire Trilogy. Even better, they did it without undermining the source material.

[@Oblithian]

I don't know how they are so bad at deaths these days. In the hunger games the one girl who died, I sat there trying to understand why it had no impact at all, you weren't made to care about the character, the death itself wasn't impactful either. Sure the scene was pretty but it's supposed to have a sense of tragedy. I have more emotion losing a hapless marine in Halo. Or if a random NPC in Oblivion gets killed by a monster and I couldn't save them.

[@lilithiaabendstern6303]

he got some kind of funeral - vikingish style, they put him into a boat with his sword & his horn and let him go down a river (and a waterfall?) - this is also how Denetor learns about his death between films, Boromir's broken horn was delivered to him - I just don't know if that was only part of the extend version, I just don't watch the cut version for cinema

[@CoachCraigKenneth]

Han trying to save his son makes a lot more sense than what they did to Luke. Last Jedi was the worst move I’ve ever seen. I can’t even watch it a second time. I have never been more infuriated over a movie.

[@mikew815]

Once was too many times for me. Worst POS movie ever made.

[@geoffreybrockmeier3765]

@Jason l Me neither. After watching the RedLetterMedia review of the film I just refused.

[@solouno2280]

...

[@ianmichaelsmith]

I grew up in the early 1980's playing with the action figures, watching the original trilogy over and over again until the tapes wore out. I read the novels. Played the Star Wars pen and paper RPG with friends. Bought models and read Star Wars comics. I bought the PC games, invested endless hours into Star Wars PC RPGs. I was never a huge fan of the prequel trilogy, but I lined up a dozen hours early for each of the premiers. I would have gladly continued to consume Star Wars content after the Disney purchase... but they literally killed the golden goose. I cannot look at any Star Wars content the same way now--especially knowing how my beloved childhood heroes got done dirty. It is a shame. I literally haven't touched a single piece of Star Wars content since I watched a review of the Last Jedi.

[@thomasmason3122]

100% agree, I saw it once in theatres and I swear, never again will I watch that shit

[@countcoupblessings979]

My hard as nails , staunch (never showed fragility) Grandma , wept at the dying & funeral of Spock . This a woman who disliked make believe / fantasy stories. Was captivated by this movie on TV . Well done story teller .

[@ROLEPLAYA64]

The "no" Kirk says when Spock dies totally sells it - it's so small, yet filled with such helplessness, shock and tragedy. Cuts me every time.

[@darkhighwayman1757]

You and me both...his broken no, hits like a ten ton hammer straight to my heart. And them he just slumps into a broke heap. Amazing.

[@bigal6352]

For all the many years of 'William Shatner can't act' jibes that went around, his scene at the end of Wrath of Khan is a piece of astonishingly good acting. From the look of hopelessness and despair on his face as his friend died in front of his eyes, to the tremble in his voice during Spock's funeral...it was absolutely top drawer acting. Even through much of Search for Spock, Kirk was a far less jovial and mischievous character than he had been previously, with Shatner managing to make it seem that a part of Kirk had died with Spock in that reactor room. The death scene wasn't just an 'audience shocker', it held real weight and ramifications for Kirk long after and was masterfully acted by Shatner.

[@joeylodes]

M me Noooooooooooo’s we’ve gotten hit over

[@keeptexasfree7361]

Kathleen Kennedy didn’t care about the characters or the Audience. She had an agenda to push.

[@MrFrostien]

Maybe just the female characters

[@mblair5327]

@@MrFrostien She doesn't want to even put in an effort with her "strong females".

[@Butiguessilovememore]

@@MrFrostien tHeRe'S nO aGeNdA

[@LittleMopeHead]

The force is female = The force is no more

[@Saieras]

Care to elaborate?

[@ToyFiend]

The single greatest failure in Hollywood history is the Ep7-Ep9 total destruction of Star Wars.

[@YourCRTube]

Well, the destruction of Star Trek on TV comes close.

[@nameofthegame9664]

The absolute best movie death ever made in my opinion was when Artax sunk in the swamp of sadness in The Neverending Story. That scene emotionally destroyed me as a kid.

[@TheFleahost]

Still too soon!

[@sheldoncooper8199]

@nameofthegame9664 Me to that was the saddest Death i had to see as a Kid Years later i understood why it was called the Swamp of Sadness.

[@yankoelgueta1116]

Oh that shit was intense

[@radmomthoughts3507]

Same

[@varsityathlete9927]

the first time this happened, the author had to bring him back. Sherlock Holmes.

[@christianbjorck816]

But at least Holmes went fighting his most deadly and iconic adversary. He died a hero. Doyle could have left Sherlock dead honestly as Moriarty was the man behind the curtain so to speak for most crimes in Europe.

[@varsityathlete9927]

​@@christianbjorck816 I think it is the first time, the public demand for a popular character made an author bring him back. nowadays, the contempt for the public from the creative would lead to a film showing in fact, holmes was a worse villain. after all we must subvert those expectations. no fun allowed

[@christianbjorck816]

@j anon Oh yeah I agree on that part. In Holmes case his death was earned was my point. He just could have ignored the publics demands. Today it usually isn’t earned for a character that is killed off, and they would never bring said character back. And like you say, probably try to make the iconic character into a joke or a villan instead.

[@ragnes18]

@@varsityathlete9927 'The backlash from the fans was incredible. Some accounts claim that people walked the streets with black armbands to mourn and protest the death of Sherlock Holmes. Another story says that Doyle was actually physically attacked by a woman with an umbrella for the sin of killing off his greatest character.'

[@UrMomsChauffer]

The second time was Optimus Prime.

[@chapman2001]

They destroyed luke skywalker’s character before they killed him lol

[@leonvalentine3748]

I suppose Ben Kenobi would be like: "You see, he was already dead...in a since."

[@TREVORVADER]

@@leonvalentine3748 from a certain point of view

[@hullbreach33]

They destroyed Han's character before they killed him too. Completely undid his character arc from the original trilogy.

[@hideousruin]

@@hullbreach33 Well yeah, but you don't expect them to give more than 5 minutes thought to one of the biggest characters in one of the biggest franchises in movie history, do you?

[@logicmanX]

This, but without the lol.

[@ShinAkuma204]

When Leia hugged Rey instead of Chewie I cashed out.

[@presidentrogue5668]

This holds true even in video games. In “The Last of Us 2”, the way they treated Joel’s death was basically criminal.

[@Asher8328]

Yup, Joel may have been a flawed character, but that doesn't mean he didn't deserve a hero's death, if not for him than for the fans.

[@liamphibia]

Agreed, and I don't care what people have to say. Killing Joel Miller, one of the most popular and beloved video game characters of all time, was so disrespectful. And that's just the first two hours!

[@maxheadroom4659]

The whole sequel "trilogy" should be trashed and made non canon. All three films are terrible.

[@gokux75]

I already consider the sequel trilogy fan fiction.

[@xo4812]

Yes

[@FP194]

Unfortunately with Darth Kennedy in charge it will not happen

[@xo4812]

F P I want someone to show her the video of her saying she would "protect the characters" and then ask her why she killed all three!

[@alexandermckay9521]

They’re not canon, they’re fan fiction. The original universe still remains. They can throw money around and call it “Legends” all they want. That doesn’t erase decades of brilliant pre established content that I grew up studying like actual history.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

The current Star Wars films and _Star Trek: Picard_ are cultural pollution. The creators know it, too.

[@eternalhalloween1]

Even villains deserve to go out with a bang. Even a villain should get a respectful death.

[@eternalhalloween1]

I refuse to watch the sequel trilogy or "Picard." Cultural Pollution describes them well.

[@PHDiaz-vv7yo]

Watched 20 mins of Picard. Then binned it and watched The Expanse. For the 200th time

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@charlieclemens5798 Picard is actually garbage.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

@@charlieclemens5798 Sorry, I meant trash.

[@inquisitor4635]

The Wrath of Khan and The Empire Strikes Back are two sequels that surpassed the previous movies. And two of the best villain portrayals ever in the science-fiction genre. The way Ricardo Montalban delivered his lines and played that character was acting at its best.

[@AndrewSmith-vh3gu]

you mean "overacting" at its best but I loved him, too

[@brian197686]

"He tasks me and I'll shall have him!"

[@ProfSplendorFaction]

Not even to mention one of the first if not best was the death of Colonel William Blake in M.A.S.H. No one saw him die but the announcement was all that was needed and the fact that only one actor, Radar, was the only one who was told about this decision so the entire cast was actually distraught and the slow pan over the operating room as everyone took a moment of stunned silence before having to continue surgery.

[@randylevy]

Chris Gore talking about deaths in Star Trek followed by Star Wars left me in tears followed by rage.

[@Dowlphin]

OH, that makes me remember something that can bring contrast: Tasha Yar. She died an arguably meaningless death. But, cynically, she was quite new to the show, and uncynically, they worked with that fact of her death. She was a dramatic character, also with a childhood story that seemed surprisingly dark and gritty for the show's general vibe. They accepted that things are not always fairytale stuff, heroic deaths full of drama and buildup, but they did so in a respectful way, and Tasha became a very fan-famous character - and this will sound funny - while she was mostly just dead. - Surely her relationship with Data was also like a beautiful storytelling anchor that kept the memory alive. - Such beautiful writing! Game of Thrones probably has a reputation of quickly killing off crucial characters so that it conveys the brutality and ruthlessness of the setting, so in that context it might work, too.

[@hawkticus_history_corner]

@@Dowlphin Tasha's death is so weird. It was done so she could get off the show, I don't recall why she needed to but she did, and so they did it and it was almost insultingly quick. But they didn't just leave it that way. Star Trek, at least used to, be good at this. If a character dies, there's generally some weight to it. Yes we all know the red shirt meme, but after that, we would have plenty of memorial services, at least a scene or two of the cast looking a bit down. For Tasha she had a memorial service. Weight goddamn, weight.

[@Dowlphin]

@@hawkticus_history_corner Haha, yes, Crosby achieved to strike vague terror into any non-red shirt. 😄

[@wiltarthebarbarian1988]

Crying and feeling rage over how a fictional character died in a scifi movie? Man...you need to get out more lol

[@filmcourage]

Do you agree? Were you offended by Hans Solo's death? What is the most disrespectful death of an iconic character you can think of?

[@Flamebloxer]

Yes. It was shocking! Iron Man death is most disturbing!

[@varsityathlete9927]

i was more offended by not getting the 3 together on the screen. i knew about han's death from spoilers so it wasnt such a shock, more a meh.

[@SparkZ1420]

John Connor in Terminator Dark Fate. What a garbage movie

[@Flamebloxer]

@@SparkZ1420 LMAO

[@mattt2277]

What's really surprising is that jar jar Abrams literally stole that iconic death scene for spock, flipped it to kirk, AND IT STILL FAILED! Idk why this person keeps getting jobs when he clearly can't write

[@notmyrealname3167]

Casually stabbing Han and tossing him into oblivion like trash was a metaphor for how modern Hollywood views their customers, the legacy star wars fandom, and American culture in general.

[@timothypryor7952]

How to kill an iconic character is best shown in the death of Optimus Prime in the original transformers cartoon. This was the first death many children ever faced in their life and everyone who was a fan of the series remembers exactly where they were when they saw that episode.

[@datboi42]

I actually want to know more about that. Can you explain further? I was born the year 2000, so I might not have grown up with the show. I remember me and my brother watching a Transformers cartoon, but he was more into it than me at the time. I’m wondering if that’s the same show I’m thinking about

[@docsavage8640]

Not a movie, but Rorschach's death in "Watchmen" (the comic book) was perfectly handled and utterly in character with what we had seen as well as a logical conclusion to his arc.

[@lafuffarosa562]

His death is memorable in the movie too

[@Garrus1995]

Mike MCBain, That show was stupid for so many reasons.

[@brandonphilander661]

@Mike MCbain I stopped watching Star Wars when they turned the entire empire into a bunch of Nazi's.

[@Cre8tvMG]

Thank you for being offended by the stupidity of Han Solo's death. Anyone who respects the audience should be.

[@colleenross8752]

Even Killmonger, a villain, gets a beautiful death scene with iconic final words, as he watches the Wakandan sunset with T'challa.

[@oddballl9128]

Qui-Gon ticked all the boxes for a meaningful death.

[@viscountrainbows6452]

People like to trash the Prequels for being too cheesy, which yeah at times they were, but they at least were building toward a coherent story, midichlorians aside. Everything that thematically occurred, all the story beats, they worked in service of the Star Wars story. Not just some ADHD addled, shiny objects everywhere, key jingling that just barely even Elmers Glues together a loose set of scenes to force the narrative to progress.

[@CleverGirlAAH]

@@viscountrainbows6452 Pretty bad when you lower the bar with your newly acquired franchise.

[@George-um2vc]

Fun fact, it’s called duel of the fates because if Qui Gon lives, Anakin will have a father figure, if he dies, he gets Obi Wan as an older brother who is incapable of supporting him the way he would need to be supported in the future.

[@robpolaris7272]

Even the always calm Kenobi lost it when Qui-Gon was killed

[@irshadazeez4764]

One of my favourite fight scenes in any movie I've seen.

[@michaeldavidnvitales]

Look up a man named Jonathan Pageau. I learned a great deal of his analysis about the difference between a story and a propaganda. A story has elements of the pattern of reality embedded in it. It resonates with us because, unknowingly, we experience this pattern in our daily lives. It makes sense to us. And seeing the pattern in a grand scale, as portrayed in movies, allows us to experience the pattern scale up to mythical levels - and we can’t help but be moved by it. Because it’s real. The twist makes sense. The solutions make sense. The characters make sense. Because it’s a real story. But a propaganda is not a real story. A propaganda has a pre-set agenda to tell, and uses story-like elements to convey their message - but it’s not an actual story. Things don’t make sense in a propaganda; it’s always one-sided. The only thing that matters is shoving their message to the audience. Propagandas are predictable and boring. There’s no true element of mystery or the enchantment of life. Only stories possess those qualities.

[@trojan403]

Amen to that’s Jonathan is awesome.

[@kellyevans3254]

Learned how to recognize archetypes in litterateur from Dr Jordan Peterson, and they got everything wrong in this movie, they didn’t want to make a compelling story, they were too busy pushing an agenda.

[@radmomthoughts3507]

Great point, thanks for sharing.

[@caiomarastoni1031]

The entire sequel trilogy feels like a waste... They wanted so desperately to kill everything "old" in the franchise that they forgot to write something meaningful. And lets be honest, they created/added nothing to the franchise with this movies.

[@logicmanX]

None of the new characters had any character or soul. Few would care what happened to them in the future. StarWars is dead.

[@corpsefoot758]

@@logicmanX It can always be rebooted. They did it with Spider-Man, and even the Joker

[@alexielmarquay]

@@corpsefoot758 sure but now Carrie Fisher is gone and Harrison Ford will likely refuse to be part of it so that's an opportunity that will never come back.

[@corpsefoot758]

@@alexielmarquay I mean … they might have to pull a Paul Walker, yeah 😬

[@virgogaming6488]

@@logicmanX I think they can be better characters if they're written better in the next trilogy.

[@NelsonStJames]

The current generation of Hollywood writers have such disdain for nostalgia that they seem to be intentionally finding the most disrespectful way to kill off any iconic character. We won't even discuss their ideas about remakes, and reboots.

[@theblackestvoid]

@Gzus Kreist The communist manifesto is like 40 pages and is about class war, what the hell does this have to do with Star Wars? A movie that started off inspired by leftist guerilla war and fantasy and was inspired in part by Soviet filmmaking. "The communist manifesto is killing my fantasy movies" absolute no pussy getting energy here.

[@nivekleveb8872]

@@theblackestvoid They want to blame "wokeness" and "communism" for what can be explained as stupidity and shitty writing because their brains have been melted by social media and fox news

[@Fiveash-Art]

@@nivekleveb8872 If you think your world view isn't being manipulated deliberately through the entertainment .. you're not paying attention. Hollywood is probably the most effective method of brainwashing, .. much more so than any mainstream news platform. Fox News... CNN... Vice... what ever flavor of Kool Aid you're drinking ... Cultural engineering is real, and you better believe those who control Hollywood most definitely have an agenda when it comes to directing said 'culture'

[@nivekleveb8872]

@@Fiveash-Art I do believe that, which is why I don't watch any tv and have barely watched any new films in the last 5 years or so...but there's also such a thing as shitty and thoughtless writing done by hacks. Occam's Razor.

[@Fiveash-Art]

@@nivekleveb8872... I agree with you about the bad writing ... maybe that's why the subliminal programming works best on the weaker minded people ... we're being conditioned to be thoughtless and maybe that's why the writing, quality of production, etc reflects that. It's also easier and much quicker to shit it out ... people have short attention spans, .. if Hollywood's not continually throwing nonsense at them, they might start finding other ways to 'entertain' themselves.. more meaningful ways to spend their time..... The 'Bread and Circuses' are psychological warfare to keep people docile and happy ... got to keep them distracted or they might start trying to have a peek at the guy behind the curtain.

[@mar10ssj1]

What happened to Han Solo is happening to many legacy characters not just in Star Wars. Look at what is happening in Star Trek, Terminator, Aliens, James Bond, and other classic characters. They are essentially being terminated and replaced with the "new" and better versions that all seem to just HAVE it without EARNING it. Mary-Rey Sue is perhaps the best example of this. It is too much work to establish these kinds of characters on their own so they just superimpose them on established characters. It's disgusting.

[@PogeyMane]

I don't think James Bond applies here. There's just too many of them with good films by multiple Bonds. Also the theory that "007" or "James Bond" is simply a title and not specific to any person in particular actually works as long as they're not going crazy with switching up the actor who plays Bond.

[@mar10ssj1]

@@PogeyMane James Bond is now a woman. More than that, the very essence of being a sex icon is reduced to being a laughing stock, an old relic of the cold war. 007 better days are behind.

[@ltchugacast131]

People don’t make new franchises anymore. There are a lot of young aspiring writers that came up watching those classic franchises and they wanted to be writers too. They have ideas for stories but they are fixated on forcing those stories to fit in the franchise they grew up in. Not every story can be told by the aliens franchise or the Terminator franchise or the Star Wars franchise. Sometimes the stories you write might draw from or be inspired by a world but by the time you finish the last page it is not something that would fit within the realm you initially pictured it and when you realize that it’s time to create something unique to yourself. The issue is large studios know that doesn’t work for sales you sell more by slapping an iconic name on it and it doesn’t matter if the story itself doesn’t fit with that iconic name the iconic name gets people into the movie theater.

[@mar10ssj1]

@@ltchugacast131 Hollywood is full of cowards. 20th Century Fox took a chance on this little property back in 1970s called Star Wars and it paid off Big Time. Nowadays, nobody wants to take any risks and will only back established IP. Worst than that is all the identity politics that are a plague to any creativity. So what you get is political correctness and classic movie characters with the end result being fucking dumpster fire.

[@crashoverwrite5196]

you forgot my beloved predator in the upcoming movie ,native young and brave woman vs not so badass alien anymore. and soon probaly neo with the new matrix 4 movie. my opinion: the way ridley scott fucked alien with david as the creator of them is the ultimativ sadistic troll move to let fans cry. i was so pissed after watching covernant. I thought that i would walk out smiling because i watched a alien movie in cinema but it felt more like my true love cheated on me and send me a porn with her and her new boyfriend.... fu.. you ridley

[@daybertimagni4841]

Brilliant, so well articulated. Pity so many screenwriters haven’t heeded this… too busy ‘subverting expectations’ at the expense of the fans

[@essexexile]

My god this man is on point. He’s actually made me realise that at the end of Star Trek VI they ride off into the sunset and that was one of my favourite endings.

[@jonathanroode6409]

100% agree! The little trilogy of Star Trek 2, 3, and 4 is done really well.

[@Chordonblue]

If only they had done that with the 3rd Indiana Jones movie. It should have ended there as it was so brilliant.

[@Zaloomination]

What does "ride off into the sunset" mean? That they die? Or that they leave the scene in peace to fill the viewer's minds with more adventures or some kind of rest? Would frodo and gandalf sailing away at the end of Return of the King be another example?

[@Chordonblue]

@@Zaloomination Yes, your example would definitely count. It effectively means a happy ending, or at least an ending that leaves it to the audience to imagine what happens next. Riding off into the sunset was popularized in old Westerns, where after a gunslinger saved the town, the girl, the saloon, whatever, he'd silently mount his horse, and the last camera shot would be of him riding towards a setting sun. This is exactly how Indy 3 ends, and by God, it should've ended there.

[@stepheneaton4978]

@@Chordonblue As far as I'm concerned, the Indy franchise did end there. I actually forget that a fourth movie was made every now and then.

[@Rhys-Lightning]

Around 5:00 is when you can see visible anger. Yep. The deaths of the big 3, the complete undoing of Han's character, the character assassination for both Han and Luke, and also the fact that they NEVER shared the screen, is mind-bogglingly criminal. An absolutely outrageous decision. Kathleen Kennedy is beyond incompetent, and you can see on stage during a panel that Mark Hamill (who said many times in interviews that he "fundamentally disagreed with their decisions on every level" and that this was "not his Luke", referring to the character as "Jake" from then on) was beginning to rant and was about to say something that would have been a PR nightmare and Kennedy takes the mic and cuts in. She knew he was pissed.

[@geoffreyharris5931]

Most Americans are more supportive of Mark Hammil than of KK.

[@hawkticus_history_corner]

He clearly enjoyed Star Wars and is angry, like a great many of us, at the utter incompetence of it all. Like, I've read some friggin stupid EU stories, but at least the main cast felt, at least mostly, like themselves in those stories, no matter how dumb they were.

[@EWR2LAX]

The entire Disney Star Wars trilogy, is an example of creative malpractice.

[@michaeljago4869]

Han Solo's death was the biggest slap in the face, but the actual making of the sequel Star Wars Movies was the biggest kick in the balls to fans.

[@Lianara]

"Why didn't the reaction of the test audience result in Han Solo's death being taken out?" Because KK and RJ didn't give a F what OG fans thought. They had an agenda: Kill the old male + have strong independent woman

[@thelegendaryman5504]

The way you word it almost implies they're doing it almost politically which is very much not true. And is also an oversimplification of the real problem. They cared so much as it fell within Disney's influence and likes and corporate goals. To them, the goal was to recapture the same experiences and feelings found within the original trilogy but they failed miserably. Killing off old characters was not for an agenda to promote the "sTrOnG wOmEn" like a lot of people say, but rather just to get a shock from the audience with no substance to it whatsoever and to add more focus to the new characters. It may sound the same to you but there's a very clear difference from just a simple agenda.

[@Riggswolfe]

I gurantee it's not about that. I 100% think Harrison Ford demanded Han be killed off. He wanted him killed off in the Return of the Jedi.

[@Lianara]

@@Riggswolfe Yeah, we can add HF to that list, too. But I don't think he has lots to say how he is written off. He wanted a meaningful death even back then. And getting f-ed by his son thrusting his light saber into him, I assume wasn't in his top 100.

[@ChoaticCrater]

@@thelegendaryman5504 You have one point however in Disney the force is female apparently now, huh guess that's not political, just innocent propaganda. Jokes: Han dies, Finn becomes joke of the trilogy for example 'Reeeeeyyyy!', Lukes pathetic then dies on a rock, Poe gets belittled when saving the rebels, Rey saves Kylo but then Kylo saves Rey... then dies. Then we have Leia, she survives impossibly is the last Jedi only to randomly die in Rise due to the death of the actor RIP Carrie Fisher. But at least unlike Luke she 'trains' Rey even though Rey never needed it, still they show a flashback to Leia beating Luke lol. Then we have Holdo who gets what Luke does not (worthy sacrifice) even though no one likes her due to belittling Poe throughout because he would like to know the plan, you know Poe from the last film which help save the galaxy,eh whatever I guess, could be a spy. But sure we'll say they never had a secondary motive in these movies, maybe people believe the "sTrOnG wOmEn" thing because there's evidence to back it up like right here. Everyone knows the main motive was to use the old characters to get people buying tickets then they could prop up the main characters but you gotta be pretty ignorant to not see a pattern in all this media, hey ho some people like to bury there heads in the sand and are too afraid to speak out against "sTrOnG wOmEn" agendas.

[@donjohnson2758]

You mean JJ* Abrams not RJ

[@RickF7666]

There's been a consistent trend in movies of franchises that off-handedly kill off the main characters of those franchises to replace them with new characters. Can we chalk the poor handling of their deaths to incompetence and stupidity, or was it done that way on purpose with malice of forethought?

[@ianmichaelsmith]

In the case of the Han, probably stupidity (JJ is not a super deep thinker), in the case of the Last Jedi, malice, Round Head hated Star Wars fans, and his handling and murder of Luke was based in personal sadism towards those fans.

[@elzoog]

Ok, but when Star Trek The Next Generation first came out, they didn't disrespect Kirk, Spock or any of the other characters of the original series by killing them off in a disrespectful manner. They simply put it 80 more years in the future so that the old characters would naturally be retired (or not active anymore) and just started the story with new characters.

[@defenstrator4660]

Both. People who resent the past are busy trying to destroy it in favor of their supposedly egalitarian future without understanding why the things of the past were valued.

[@Scrobes]

I think some of it is incompetence yes. But unfortunately as time goes by, more and more I do believe that it's being doing on purpose with malice. This is cultural reprogramming. It's insidious and awful.

[@elliottgaal9774]

I'd say more ignorance and malice. They hate what they can't be; creators so they go down the dark path; destroyers.

[@TankUni]

I couldn't believe how poorly they treated Han Solo in TFA. Here's a massive forty year pop culture icon and he gets stuck with a light sabre, tossed down a hole and forgotten about 10 minutes later. Atrocious. And Disney wonder why people weren't as engaged as they'd hoped. But that's JJ Abrams for you - nothing's earned and nothing really matters.

[@belmont1960]

Some rumors told that disney get rid of the character like that cause harrison ford was going to demand more payment for each new film to get into. Lame excuse to dissrespect a big character.

[@iforgot87872]

He had like all the best lines and was a father figure to Rey. I don’t get why everyone is freaking out. Characters in pg-13 movies can die.

[@belmont1960]

@@iforgot87872 it´s not that he died. But that han solo was killed in a way that lacked respect for the character. And yeah an icon character respecto for everyone can be killed and people will accept it. Take an example on Logan.

[@TankUni]

@@iforgot87872 Leaving aside how poorly Han's death was handled, by resetting everything back to ANH, it meant all the struggles and victories of the characters from the first three films (Han, Luke, Leia), were rendered pointless and sad.