How to make your Mesa Mark V sound like a real IIC+

ml-sound-lab.com/

[@d3adlym3rcy25]

This is super cool never expected the Graphic Eq’s to be as wildly different

[@travisfritts6262]

Wow! This is the magic slider EQ I've been seeking for Ch3. Never occurred to me to take the 6600hz that low. Slider setting also works great on the Mark I (Ch2) with the 6600 slid back up to just over halfway up. Game changer! Thanks for posting this!

[@seanmackay6739]

It's closer with the Mark IV mode because they're both the same circuits, but in different configurations. The IIC+ mode has a smaller coupling cap after the preamp that was uses on non-GEQ models, and the Mark IV mode has a larger coupling cap before the GEQ that was used on GEQ models allowing more bass through. And the Mark IIC+ mode has PULL DEEP disengaged, when the Mark IV mode has PULL DEEP engaged. But they're both essentially IIC+ modes in different configurations. And since you were comparing to a GEQ model IIC+, that Mark IV mode is the one that matches that.

[@FedericoMK]

the Mark IV circuit has the mid gain feature, which is not present in the C+ and give the mark iv its own flavour

[@seanmackay6739]

@@FedericoMK I’ve examined the schematics thoroughly, both the Mark IIC and Mark IV modes on the Mark V are just the Mark IIC+ circuit, but as I said the IIC mode has the smaller coupling cap from non-GEQ models and PULL DEEP disengaged, and the Mark IV mode has the larger coupling cap from the GEQ models and PULL DEEP engaged. That’s the only difference. They were going to name the modes Tight, Thick, and Extreme, but they decided that referencing their older generation models would be good for marketing. The Mark IV schematic itself is very similar to the IiC+ anyway, but it’s unique differences aren’t actually represented in the Mark V.

[@FedericoMK]

​@@seanmackay6739 to my ear the mid gain switch in the MK IV head is also creating a notable difference in sound and gain structure. check the MKIV preamp schematics online, under the V2A cathode. Furthermore the IIC+ has EL34 in Class A triode, while the MK IV head has 6L6 in class A pentode. But if you are saying that the mark V rendition of the MK IV has no mid gain active, this is really a shocker for me, I will definitively choose a MKIV over a MKV then :) thanks!

[@FedericoMK]

@@seanmackay6739 regarding my previous comment, what do you think of the MKV's relays RYM8RL (used by MKIV mode) near tube V6A? it is is involving additional cap in and out the mk IV mode in the same circuit position as the mid gain, before the mode master. Let me know!

[@dougmorisoli6482]

Sean.. well put. So many miss these details that are buried in the manual. Mesa probably should have went with the other descriptors for that top switch.

[@MarkSDD]

Tried it on the 25 and it sounds amazing.

[@mlsoundlab]

Awesome! :)

[@rattlehead001]

I’ll try this on my 35

[@markelder2484]

That's where mine sound great too. I have the 35. turned the volume down a bit to saturate more and brought the MIDS up a tiny bit.

[@tomh4244]

@@markelder2484 The volume down to saturate more?

[@tman6495]

@@markelder2484 did you run it at the full 35wts?

[@cameronhensley5745]

Wow, those settings really are crazy haha. Nice work finding them.

[@Nsypski]

It's very similar but you can hear in this video only the 2C+ has that extra percussive attack on each note. It's evident in chords where you can hear each note sparkle more. That's what the 2C+ is all about. Otherwise the tone and tightness is exactly the same.

[@philjw3539]

…this one goes to 11

[@1969MARKETING]

I have a Mark Five 25 and I use the IIC+ mode with a Mesa Flux Five in front of it so I have further ability to EQ. If you haven't tried a Flux Five as a preamp do it! It will be the best high gain tone you've ever heard in your life :) I also have a noise gate. It's a must.

[@serenitybroken]

Damn! That's pretty close! Awesome video!

[@thrasher10000]

Nailed it. Pretty interesting that you used pentode and IV mode ha. I was trying to match a Mark IV to the C+ the other day and similarly found I had to ignore the manual's suggestions to get close.

[@jimmybailey7198]

Nearly identical, newer sounds a touch tighter and more controlled, whilst the old one is a little more wild and fuzzy, perfect for old metal

[@Alek_Archer]

Say Hi to Matias, I've been a huge fan of Stratovarius since the early 90s when Tolkki was there. But their last two albums are just fantastic! And a great job of course with these mesa tones. Hail Petrucci!=))

[@mlsoundlab]

Cheers buddy! All awesome dudes. :)

[@SilentNightBodomNight]

I love this tone!

[@robvoyles]

I have 5 of mark series amps, Green stripe, Red stripe, Blue Stripe and a a IIC+.. if they were vastly different they wouldn't have just swiped each version with just a magic marker swipe or a black dot or a + sign. The big difference in the IIC+ and the Mark III was the third channel. Mesa got noticeably different with the Mesa badging vs the Boogie badges. The Rectifier series,The lone star, Road King,Nomad, etc came later and did sound different... The stiletto was probably the most different being EL34 based shooting toward the Marshall tone. Even my newer Mark 5 EL84 based amp sits in my studio with the older mark III'S and IIC+ it too sounds really close even all these years later with totally different power section/ tubes. The petrucci amp is a modern Mark amp and you can line up all the Mark series amps and NO one in the audience would ever know the difference and most guitar players blind folded couldn't pick them out one from the other especially with the transparent EVM 12L black shadow speaker or an MC-90 black shadow. The IIC+ landed production in the right time to become the flagship vintage boogie. Thats when 80's music was huge and that amp was produced at the right time for the players who made it famous. it didn't make them famous. I would argue a Mark III purple, red, blue or green stripe Mark III could have been used by the players who made the IIC+ famous and those albums and concerts wouldn't have sounded any different. They just weren't available at the time those bands recorded those albums. They stopped the IIC+ when the mark III came into production. They stopped the III when the Mark IV started and so on....they are all great amps and tonally are the same. Most of those bands stopped playing the IIC+ and went to the mark III when it came out because the sound was basically the same but the 3 had a third channel, everyone loved that.

[@NickvanKempen78]

I tried it on my Mark V and it’s glorious 😎🤘🏼

[@mvyper]

You used a real cab or an IR?

[@jcalla28]

Thanks a lot for this Mikko! The Mark V IIC+ mode has so little gain it's ridiculous.

[@mlsoundlab]

Yeah it's not quite the IIC+ thing unless you max the gain. :)

[@mvyper]

I can generally get enough gain at about 3 quarters with a reasonably hot pickup. I have a set of Donlis pups that are insanely hot and that sound really high gain on 2c+ mode just below half.

[@ernestdenov3599]

I used to have a Mark IIc+ combo and sold it a good while ago (like an idiot). I picked up a Mark V a little over a week ago and quickly noticed that the Mark IV mode sounded more like the IIc than the IIc mode. The original IIc had a couple of push/pull tone knobs that were midrange boosters; one accentuating lower mids and the other voiced in a higher register. I wondered if and how that would be worked into the Mark V... and it wasn't. Not a problem because the Mark IV gets really close to that sound I loved so much!

[@Fl7x]

It’s crazy how different is the EQ sliders on the Mark V to mimic the “V” shape on the IIC+

[@Dr.Lee.Guitar]

The 6600 slider is key to taming the treble in the V. Not a lot of people know this.

[@Ontariosound]

Have recorded with both amps. The cherry on top is the speaker cabinet being pushed to its limits. It is clearly audible on AJFA at times.

[@FedericoMK]

I tried the same on my iic+ drg with on board geq against the Mesa 5 band eq in the loop and the result was almost similar. Had to raise the 2200 hz a lot and lower the 6600 hz in order to remove fizz from the eq pedal. It's evident that the frequencies and Q are very different from the old models!

[@jakebenigni]

as important as that 6600 being low is, the 2200 being that high is just if not more important. upper mids. great job.

[@jordandupont7430]

Right on it and yeah that EQ is nuts

[@kellyjackson7889]

EQ makes perfect sense that 6600 needs to be down and 2200 is where the crunch is 750 fully scooped check

[@nicolasrivera5310]

Killer Mikko! I did a MOD to my Mark III that gets it close too. Man i love the Marks Tone. Cheers.

[@mlsoundlab]

That's awesome. This definitely feels a lot like my Mark 3s used to feel.

[@kristofferleecampbell4103]

How did you mod it? I want to do it but it costs too much to ship to usa. So I will be trading for a mkV 35

[@tianlee3487]

Very close! Listening carefully I think the IIC+ has a smoother top end, while the Mark V has harsher mids, even with the 750 slider all the way down. Good enough not to matter though.

[@bebopsamurai_music]

This sounds extremly close! I still have one question left! Is the Mark V in Triode or Pentode Mode?

[@mvyper]

Pentode. He told that in a comment.

[@jared8324]

The mark 2c+ mode of the mark v is modeled after the “non eq” equipped version of the mark 2c+, which had a slightly different circuit capacitor components which made them sound brighter, so no the mark 2c+ mode will not sound like the eq equipped mark2c+, it will sound like the brighter non eq version.

[@vaportrails7943]

I have a Mark V, and I have to say, I don't understand the worship of the IIC+. It sounds really muddy for high gain rhythm. On the Mark V, "Extreme" mode, with Pentode chosen (all the most "modern" options) completely crushes anything from the previous models.

[@mlsoundlab]

Yeah I actually prefer the V over all other models.

[@ArtGuitarLTX]

I like the extreme channel on my 35. That’s all I use. It’s tight, beefy and chocolatey.

[@1969MARKETING]

i have a mark five 25 and mark iv mode is my favorite for high gain. using it with a gibson sg that has a duncan sh5 in the bridge. sounds amazing. best money ever spent on an amp.

[@m.thephilosopher]

Absolutely agree. and I love the MARK IV Mode in Channel 3 for my Sound.

[@leosun8469]

So, first thing I want to say is that I love Boogie Mark amps as well, and they all have their own “thing” and they ALL sound different. That being said, the earlier Mark amps also all have different versions. I personally own two C+s, and Mike Bendenelli has gone through them both and they’re both in top perfect working order. One is a DRG 75/15W SimulClass and the other is an HRG 60/100W. The SimulClass is definitely a darker amp, but is more “liquidy” feeling and good for single note stuff. The HRG absolutely kills for metal and hard rock, AND does all the solo note stuff well- and personally my favorite. John Petrucci’s favorite C+ as well, and also what they modeled the JP2C after. I have had several MkVs, which I love, and I think I got closer to the C+ tone of my actual amps in the Extreme mode, but the MkIV mode is great too.

[@shanelyon15]

Holy shit dude…..I owned a mark iic+ for years and I sold it 😭…thank you for doing this!!!!! Can you do a lead sound???

[@SHREDTILLDEAD]

I have the taf Kemper profiles for this iic+ amp and sounds amazing with boost. Have to get it if you make a high gain Kemper profile for it.

[@h3lio5]

0:07 - you might even say, he likes to Boogie

[@lablespaul5610]

If you set Triode on Mark V with effect loop connected (just like original C+), then the setting on GE wouldn't be that extreme?

[@TheGazza83]

Fucking hell man. Sounds bang on

[@tomh4244]

Alright so i'll go ahead and say it, you're one of the best regarding "Matching tones" so i'll just ask, would you consider making a video where you would tell what settings would work best to match the different Dream Theater albums? I have a JP2C and i can't always do it because my ear has a hard time to say "on this one there's more mids or more bass" etc, what's the key to these different albums, it could be a great video! Thanks man you rock ^^

[@mlsoundlab]

Well that's a bit complicated. I can't really match the sounds accurately without having the cab and amp separated.

[@tomh4244]

@@mlsoundlab Man i didnt see your answer, yea i get it now i learned a lot, so many factors

[@jkdsteve]

Mk IV mode is the best mode on ch3

[@mookytc]

Picked up a Mark V this week. Will try these settings! Curious what you set your other channels to? Thanks for the video!

[@mookytc]

These setting are nice thank you!! Now I would really like to see your settings for the other channels - modes.

[@jimmysavage258]

I’m thinking about just getting the mark 7. The five seems like it has to many issues

[@WintermintP]

Hey can i leave a feedback on your ML5 2.0 plug? Somehow the switch doesn't actually stay in the mode I set it to so I can't even tell if the plugin really is on Extreme mode every time I boot it up eh?

[@Stoffendous]

Is that an attenuator on top? Which one is it? People say Mark Vs don't need one, but you think they do?

[@OfficialSNMvids]

Could you tell me what tubes you were using on the amps in this video?

[@alexblankenship2486]

Do you think these settings would have similar results on the Mark V:35? Sounds killer!

[@mlsoundlab]

Someone liked these settings on their Mark5:25 and liked it but I haven't tried it myself.

[@alexblankenship2486]

ML Sound Lab thanks for the quick response! I’ll report back. I’ve also subscribed. Keep up the awesome content!

[@EdwardKayeplus]

This is very interesting. I shall have to try this on mine. People have been telling me I should sell my Mark V to fund a JP2C, but how close do I really need to be to that sound? So many other sounds to explore too.

[@mvyper]

Those that doss the v are just feeding on nostalgia. It's an awesome amp. It's just the old saying that goes like "vintage is better" . The v has a ton of versatility that the older marks didn't have. And of course, 2 different amps will not sound exactly the same.

[@jamesmurphysimp4806]

With that 1984 amp you can basically sound exactly like Metallica, 1986 or 1988

[@sygyl]

i wanna hear master of puppets on this

[@TIGHTENmetal]

Making it sound the same isn’t the hard part. Making it FEEL like it is. That said good job on the tone match.

[@mlsoundlab]

I would say that the feel is really good on both. The V is more compressed so maybe even better for leads. Still they feel very similar. The palm mutes in the end show the dynamic character and it's almost identical as well.

[@joshtmg9317]

Was this on the Mark V 25 watt head?

[@fredrikandersson2553]

Great! 👍🙂 90w or 45w? Pentode or triode?

[@mlsoundlab]

Pentode on the V. IIC+ is Simul-Class as well.

[@reamptones9925]

You can see in the vid it's set to 90w

[@YsAbTones]

is it plugged into the X load ?

[@kellyjackson7889]

KA-KUNG!

[@dudefrombarrie]

what pick ups are you using in your guitar? I am struggling with my M5. I use Les Pauls with 57' classics. I think that could be causing me some grief. Thoughts?

[@NickvanKempen78]

dudefrombarrie I have a LP Traditional with Burstbuckers and they are great pups, just not for metal. I struggled for months getting a great metal tone from my Mark V. I ended up changing the tubes and trying the “saturation mod” and using a mini TS in front of the MK5. It sounds great now, but I will get a guitar with EMG’s or another high output pup. It’s just better for heavy riffs I think. Btw, Miko uses a John Petrucci sig EBMM which has Dimarzio pups, if I remember correctly.

[@dudefrombarrie]

@@NickvanKempen78 Thanks Nick! I am running a TS in front now and it sounds better for me. I think maybe tubes are my next stop. I honestly wonder if there is something wrong there. If I plug straight in and try to get a distorted sound it's really kind of sad. I ran the exact settings from those Petrucci videos and could not recreate the tone. I won't give up just yet, I know there is something hiding in there, just need to dig it out!

[@NickvanKempen78]

dudefrombarrie it sounds like it might be your tubes. I bought my head last January and found out the former owner didn’t know anything about tubes or changing them. I played the amp with crappy tubes until last month. I changed them all and the amp sounds so different it’s unbelievable. It’s a beast now. Your pups are a little hotter than the BB’s I have so it shouldn’t be a problem getting a good metal tone even without a TS. If you have any questions let me know! I know how frustrating it can be. Took me over 6 months to finally get a great sound.

[@dudefrombarrie]

Mark V tube replacement from MB: 4x MESA Matched 6L6 Tubes - GC STR-440 7x MESA 12AX7 Preamp Tubes 1x MESA 5U4GB Rectifier Tube - Short Version Also available are the SPAX7 Premium Grade Preamp Tube upgrade for an additional $21.00 I would do the upgrade also.

[@NickvanKempen78]

dudefrombarrie great choice! I use a SPAX7 in the V1 position. Perhaps interesting to know is that Mesa ships the Mark V with STR-441 (Tung Sol) power tube these days. They mention it on their website. These are unfortunately not available here in The Netherlands, so I got the Tung sol 441 (same tubes, just not rebranded by Mesa). I also put a NOS Jan Philips 12at7 in the V4 position (saturation mod) This opens the amp up and makes it les compressed sounding. It does lower the gain a bit, but you can actually dail in more gain before things get fizzy sounding. There’s a lot more range on all the knobs. Anyway, I think the tubes you mentioned will make a huge difference. Little tip to change the tubes: remove the reverb tank, so you can access all the tubes easily. It’s easy to do, there is a vid on YT about this, which is approved by Mesa themselves.

[@mjeetje5850]

Triode or pentode? Also all mesa tubes?

[@RickMold]

Nice tone matching. Not exactly the same but really close.

[@RickMold]

Would be difficult to say which one is the original in a blind test.

[@kenmasters007]

I'm curious... besides the "tone"... what else differs between the V and iic+? can you generate the same surround/3D effect from the V?

[@Guitarsthatkill]

Get 12at7s in the V4 (drive stage) and V7 (phase inverter) and yup

[@kenmasters007]

@@Guitarsthatkill your quite knowgeable! Thank you... What do you think about the jp2c+ vs the original? Cheers

[@Guitarsthatkill]

@@kenmasters007 Limited experience in person on the JP2c, but the big Transformer, and the rawness are appealing in a metal way, but I'll stay with III, V, V:25 for now, all can dial in heaven in all styles. Especially with that tube config. The vintage gear often used em.

[@justingiles7163]

@@Guitarsthatkill what do those specific do to the tone of the V? I’m new to the world of tubes and all their nuances. Thank you for your time!

[@Guitarsthatkill]

@@justingiles7163 The gain stage tube swap makes it feel 'sweetened' in the way the breakup and drive is. More vintagey in its flavour a lost more like the gain structure or sound of the 80s..seems to lower a gan stage and make it warmer/cleaner making the distortion seem less compressed and more of a warm open feel.. The Phase inverter tube switch seems to make the signal hit the whole power/EQ stage better in a way resulting in bigger purer livelier sound overall. Plus you can dial bass higher without flub and more treble without icepicky range being focus, redefining preamp dial range and allowing tones hard to get before.

[@XChristianNoirX]

Now do it ahain with a jp2c and a an actual Mark IV. Those yow are my interests tight now.. :D I guess doing them all for my befit can get kinda pricey though hehe

[@mlsoundlab]

Yyyyyyup. But honestly I think the Mark V is flexible enough to sound like any Mark series amp. After this test I knew I had the amp that can do it all. :)

[@MrOzkarlopez]

Matias rules!

[@carlossalazar4508]

Triode?

[@eriksardela6344]

Tooop!!!

[@3000KTM]

i have a mark v 35 combo ... these settings sound absolutly terrible on it , muffled , completly killed all treble . so obviously very different than the 90w head

[@mlsoundlab]

I'm thinking the GEQ is different on these amps...

[@3000KTM]

@@mlsoundlab it has el34s instead of 6l6 , some differences but i have to push the treble up like the V curve to make it sound right , your model packs are killer !!!

[@tnorris403]

I recently bought a MarkV 35 head...and found that if in C+ mode...2 outside sliders all the way up, and 3 inside sliders all the way down...i can get a really good metallica tone. I think I had the gain around noon.

[@elgoogkcuf]

@@tnorris403 Iv'e got the same amp as you. l'll try this out today! Also, have you ever tried the headphone jack in the back of the head??

[@tnorris403]

@@elgoogkcuf no i have not tried that yet. Have you? Hows the reverb on yours? I need to send mine back, reverb quit

[@davidepannone6021]

Then i use your plugin with the same exact settings and it doesn't sounds like that AT ALL lol.

[@mvyper]

The plug-in is not great. I have the real amp and the plug-in doesn't react at all like it.

[@Funny-bf8xf]

I've seen many of these video's on how to get it to sound like a cii+ when it's in the manual how to get it. lol . Just read the manual. the guy that invented the cii+ tells you how to get the sound in the manual. :P

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

Scott Harrison manual settings are garbage

[@vaportrails7943]

@@Starch1b2c3d4a Like he said, the manual is written by Doug West, and details how they went about creating the IIC+ mode using his own favorite IIC+, then tells you how to set it. There wouldn't be anybody who knows better than him. But if you want to sound like Metallica...their engineers wired up a hybrid with Marshalls for MoP. It's not clear that they ever used a IIC+ by itself for anything. All worth knowing.

[@Starch1b2c3d4a]

@@vaportrails7943 dont be a Boomer.

[@vaportrails7943]

Em B Facts suck.