How To Sell Your VR Game

[@inoob26]

My opinions on why VR games fail is that most of them don't bother polishing/develop other parts of the game aside the one thing they are good at. Stuff like being good at gameplay feel, campaign design, level design, graphical fidelity and art direction is something I imagine most gamers want but VR games usually only focus on one of those things and neglect the rest

[@Skrenja]

I know. There's no excuse for any game to feel jankier than Alyx at this point. The blueprint for polished, intuitive VR game controls has been established.

[@virtualinsider]

Trying to emulate what Valve did with Alyx as a small developer is pretty much impossible and in some ways Alyx has set an impossibly high standard most developers cant meet.

[@inoob26]

@@virtualinsider I guess the only hope VR has is for someone to make a proper VR Engine that makes game development easier instead of harder

[@Skrenja]

​​@@virtualinsiderGraphics wise? Sure, I don't expect indie devs to match Valve's capability -- but control wise? I am not so sure. Many VR games feel like they are _very_ close to emulating Alyx's feel -- but they almost always make bafflingly stupid decisions with their control schemes and/or reloading mechanics that could be (seemingly) easily fixed. The backpack reloading and grabbity gloves should be standard in every VR shooter that doesn't prioritize realism.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

​@@inoob26the vast majority of VR games use Unity. Unreal Engine actually has very robust VR support.

[@hisdarkestfear]

Having you offer game consulting feels like a very natural next step, I'm glad you've stuck with what you seem to know best without having to completely rely on KZbin 👏

[@yasho437]

It's cool to hear that you're offering game consulting. I think that having someone like you to talk with would be very helpfull to game devs.

[@gopherchucksgamingnstuff2263]

Beat saber is like 3 colors and bland shapes. it does well because it knows what is important.

[@Skrenja]

Yeah, but beatsaber is a simple rhythm game where graphics aren't a priority. Any type of story driven, immersion focused, singleplayer VR game _needs_ aesthetically pleasing graphics. The "graphics doesn't matter" mindset doesn't apply to these type of games where immersion is everything. Graphics _do_ matter in VR (way more so than in flatscreen) and I won't let anyone gaslight me into thinking otherwise.

[@victoriouswinner7745]

@@SkrenjaI think you missed the point.

[@DinoGoober]

It doesn't know what is important, it does well because it's overrated, and there isn't something you can really do wrong with beatsaber because it's just music, so technically you can't go wrong with something so simple.

[@Pam234]

@@Skrenjagraphics dont matter. Stop imagining things

[@roonvr7115]

Yes they do in certain games

[@roonvr7115]

You are hands down the best vr KZbinr. You give such a in-depth review of stuff. It’s very impressive.

[@PkStarstormAlfa]

more companies should also try to do normal games with vr capabilities, i would love to play Dragon Quest XI the exact way it is, but seeing it in VR, also other JRPGs like the trails series, persona and games like those with beautiful art styles and low PC requirements. I know there are some mods here and there, but adding just a normal VR view of the flatscreen games would be a huge incentive to buy games

[@Skrenja]

Yep. All games really need for basic VR support is headtracking, decoupled aiming and gamepad support. There's so many games I'd love to play with this setup.

[@KaosDeathLord]

Please for the love of God no... What is the point of a VR game if it isn't immersive, you may as well play on a regular screen at that point.

[@PkStarstormAlfa]

@@KaosDeathLord to me JRPGs are already immersive, watching the game world in VR feels great. I played a little with the model viewer of Trails into reverie in VR, and i cant help but wish all game was in VR, it looks beautiful

[@Skrenja]

​@@KaosDeathLordGamepad VR can be really awesome. (Subnautica and Alien Isolation come to mind.) Hell, I even _prefer_ a gamepad over motion controls for certain games if the motion controls are implemented poorly and break immersion.

[@KaosDeathLord]

@@Skrenja I can't play gamepad in VR it just doesn't feel right.

[@Azuracorp]

i have this thing where i refuse to allow a game to die in my eyes and keep playing it until every last fiber of my body starts screaming out of boredom and i love this because it makes me satisfied with the game i bought

[@djp1234]

I don’t care about VR gimmicks like climbing walls or pulling levers. I just want a AAA story and graphics in VR.

[@ondrejeder8816]

great video as always, I love watcvhing your content. Your consulting services sounds good too, hopefully we can get beter and better games for VR

[@ImaplanetJupiteeeerr]

Very cool that you are giving out consulting! May it lead to even more truly great VR games in the future!

[@nmatses012]

Glad to see you putting your skills to good use! Any dev who spends 10 minutes on your channel should want to hire you for a consultation.

[@virtualinsider]

Thankyou so much for the donation. Really appreciate it.

[@SargonDragon]

My biggest recommendation to game developers is: _PLAY OTHER VR GAMES!_ I feel that for many games that come up short, you can tell that the developers are not familiar with the VR landscape in general. They appear to more or less only use VR for their own game and otherwise live in a vacuum. Consequently, they make numerous bad choices about even simple stuff. It's like buying a car made by engineers that don't themselves drive and have no experience with cars made by other companies. So they put the steering wheel at a bizarre angle in front of the passenger seat at the rear.

[@Tyretes]

playtesting everything when developing a vr game are much more needed than traditional games.

[@diogo763]

I started a new playtrough of Lone Echo 2 and I still get impressed by the hand interactions in that game

[@infera1]

Really great idea with the freelance consultation offering, hope you get big support because your words have big value every time.

[@izzieb]

While I appreciate the Quest is popular, there have been quite a few games that have been downgraded on PC (Blade and Sorcery for example). I would say "scalability" of the game is important too. As with normal "2D" games, they should be able to scale with different hardware, instead of all platforms being downgraded for the worst hardware.

[@cheapbongs]

so what do you suppose is the solution? the quest isn't capable of running certain games like Blade and Sorcery at the same level a PC does, so the graphics have to be donwgraded

[@Picklespit]

Blade and sorcery hasn't been downgraded on PC though. The Quest version is completely different (hence why it is called nomad)

[@Valcuda]

​@@cheapbongsThey're complaining cause some games downgrade the PC versions graphics, on PC. Obviously Quest 2 will have worse graphics, but some devs downgrade visuals on the PC version as well when they make the Quest 2 version.

[@izzieb]

@@cheapbongs That's not the issue at all. The issue is downgrading the visuals or physics (for example the skin textures on NPCs in B&S) on PC to match the Quest. To give an analogy, I don't think people would expect a PS5 game to be downgraded to match the version on the Switch. Normal games seem to have no issue scaling their graphics etc for different hardware.

[@cheapbongs]

@@izzieb oh wow, i had no clue B&S graphics were downgraded on PC. when did they do that?

[@jungleboy1]

As a gamer i find it nearly impossible to find decent VR games. That is because they get hidden away by the thousands of cheap knock off VR demos and unfinished games. Its hard as it is to find decent 2d games, but in VR this takes it to a new level because there is fewer people playing it to really push the latest and greatest.

[@Glitch5970]

9:06 also make sure it has good looking particles at the front end of the gun when firing, with good hit particles where the shot lands also with nice impact sounds, with both that also change depending on what material or thing you shot, with maybe some nice bullet trails, maybe the bullet trail could be thicker and more visible if it's a more cartoonish game for example There's also the vibrations/haptics of the controllers for making the guns feel satisfying to use in VR aswell. RE8 on PSVR2 imo has the best feeling guns I've ever tried personally, the adaptive triggers and sick haptics and vibrations of the VR2 controllers that are all unique depending on the weapon or reload with the nice hit particles also different depending on what you shoot etc. It legit all comes together to make guns that feel absolutely incredible to use! When I unlocked infinite ammo for the regular shotgun my goodness reloading and shooting that shotgun constantly almost made me wanna cry...God I wish the game ran at higher than 60 fps at least.. But to be fair it's also because some of my points apply to non VR aswell, and RE8 is a very well made game outside of VR to begin with. God I can't wait for RE4R on PSVR2 since that game is better than RE8 and has way more and better action & gameplay and you get to use your guns way more aswell

[@migueeeelet]

Classic weapon feedback stuff, agreed. VR games tend to go for peashooters for some reason. I guess it's the lack of real life feedback? Still doesn't excuse my pistol not soundy CHUNKY.

[@Ecksehrin]

Definitely agree with the desktop/spectator view. I think its super nice to have high fov views for content, and it just makes the game itself look amazing from a 2D perspective

[@norjia]

i do hope you enjoy the occasional stride arena session :P I voiced the enemies there for the English version. it's not my best work to be honest, but it was the first job i got.

[@migueeeelet]

Hah, that's neat! What is VA work like?

[@norjia]

@@migueeeelet it... depends. i was mostly doing it freelance. obviously there's days where you're really not feeling like it, tho when i had my own vocal booth it could be pretty fun cause you get to scream your lungs out without anyone hearing you XD

[@feraligatorade99]

vr arms are more important than most developers realize. It makes the game look so much more appealing, at least for spectators.

[@virtualinsider]

Yeah, that was the main point I was getting at. People buy games from footage on a screen not how it looks in the headset and Arms really make the gameplay footage look much better from a spectators point of view.

[@feraligatorade99]

my hope is that full body tracking becomes effortless and high quality, so that vr bodies are easier to implement.@@virtualinsider

[@Lord_of_Dread]

It makes a massive difference for players too. I didnt appreciate how much difference it makes until FRIK came out with two handed weapon handling. In base FO4VR you are a floating gun, no body, no hands. FRIK makes the game about 30-50% more enjoyable to play on its own.

[@VirtualBroVR]

What would be your dream VR game? I would have to say either a competitive PvP arena game based on Tron: Legacy, OR a co-op story game based on two-players piloting a Pacific Rim-type mech.

[@davidlewis2171]

Both of those sound insanely fun

[@migueeeelet]

Second one, closest you may get is Mechwarrior 5 with the VR mod

[@randy343]

What a great video! Hopefully some devs will get some tips here and expand on them!

[@VirtualBroVR]

DEVELOPERS, PLEASE HIRE THIS MAN.

[@rez774]

I really appreciate your commentary on the VR scene. I've been here since the original Vive and it's hard to stay positive when it feels like I hear nothing about it, but it's always pleasant to see your videos pop up in my subscription box to keep me in on it.

[@davidg8010]

Good luck with this venture, i hope this works out for you - as this will also benefit VR user's too! Hopefully game developers will come to value your input as demonstrated by your excellent content

[@El-Burrito]

I hadn't heard of Against before until you showed it in this video! It looks cool, I'm gonna check it out

[@WanerRodrigues]

Really in depth analysis, agreed with everything, thank you

[@robperin5365]

Posting your resume on KZbin....Brilliant. I enjoyed your video, and hope game developers use your insight on game development and use your consultation services.

[@jsivonenVR]

We’re making a VR game where you shoot cartoonish soldiers and fully destructible terrain with cannons. I’m gonna pitch your consulting to the team 🙏🏻

[@clonechoopa31]

I'll be honest, Lone Echo got me really interested in vr, it's rather unfortunate that the setup to run such a great game costs upwards of $15K, not something you can get within five years with a security guard's annual salary here in Canada.

[@SargonDragon]

How are you calculating $15K? That's multiple times what even top end hardware costs.

[@Skrenja]

$15k? Even a top of the line 4090 rig won't run that much.

[@clonechoopa31]

@@Skrenja Seriously?! I looked up alienware and some of their best hardware is upwards of $10K CAD bro.

[@clonechoopa31]

@@SargonDragon I ain't no damn techno wizard lizard so of course I look at sites with already assembled hard drives (5TB space with highest possible GB ram and the 3090 graphics card) and that shit coupled with vr and vr-related sensors (haptics and motion) is very fuckin expensive dawg.

[@4879daniel]

​@@clonechoopa31But that isn't what's required to run the game which is what your first post said. I ran the game fine on a 1k setup.

[@ashb899]

I'll keep you in mind for my future game testing. I've already used a lot of your opinions in the past.

[@mudai_]

One of my biggest gripes with VR story based games... Is CONSTANTLY being taken out of control, or being forced to sit still while the most bland story and phoned-in voice acting occurs. Take Asgard's Wrath for instance. I hoped back on after years of not playing it, and it didn't save my progress so I had to go through the whole intro again.. It's horrible. The game is generally great, almost AAA... But those wait times in VR are something else...

[@n0xxm3rcyxx]

I wish bonelabs was co-op that would be fun. The physics are top notch.

[@socks2441]

8:20 i agree on selling a game arms is better for footage. but in game, i personally far prefer floating hands. some games i dont even play because of the ik arms. i can never get them the right size, length etc. the elbow is always in a weird place or too bent or too outstretched. since the elbows and shoulders are not actually tracked, its all just guesswork. in vr your brain immediately adapts to no arms. but having arms in your view that are not in the right place can be very distracting and immersion breaking. i understand this opinion is not most peoples opinions though. and every game should have both options. or better yet, all three: floating hands only, ik arms, full ik body.

[@thijsvandercaaij5968]

I find it so interesting how most of the "VR" games that I want to play are VR mods/versions for normal PC games. So far I have played HL Alyx, Walking Dead and Boneworks as VR standalones and of course I will probably play games such as Blade and Sorcery, Bonelab and Beatsaber in the future. I have way more time in VR mods/modes however, such as Outer Wilds, Valheim, Green Hell, Elden Ring, No Man's Sky and Red Dead Redemption 2. Currently saving for a better headset (only played on a WMR, hope the next Meta is gonna be good) and a beefy PC and will probably play Cyberpunk, Resident Evil, Skyrim and Subnautica then. I have little idea how much effort it is to VR mod a game, but it makes me wonder why studios themselves don't develop "VR DLC's". Is it just not worthwhile for them? I'd pay at least 10-15 euros extra for an official VR version of the earlier mentioned games. Man I really hope Starfield is gonna get a VR mod quickly...

[@AverageFantaEnjoyer7]

Marketing is a big thing. If you want your game to make it even a month you *have* to release it on quest. You could release on both quest and pcvr but if you do you really should include cross play if it is a multiplayer game.

[@gopherchucksgamingnstuff2263]

Also, Hard drive space is real estate to me. Pay your rent or get evicted. I tried Hubris but the controls are wank. having to hold down a button to walk is just wrong. That is what touch controls are for. It is my gripe since I still use a Vive.

[@4879daniel]

The climbing in that was super frustrating and it kept sending you back to earlier in the level to repeat long boring sections. Barely managed half an hour.

[@WikiPeoples]

I really hope game developers take you up on your offer to do consulting. I've grown to tired of the slew of VR game after VR game that doesn't seem to give a shit what the community really wants. Everyone wants to try and figure it out the hard way I guess. Good luck man, I hope for the sake of VR that you get tons of requests.

[@virtualinsider]

Thanks I appreciate it.

[@froggyblocks]

I know it's more of a sim than a game, but h3vr is amazing in term of guns variety and gameplay.

[@KaosDeathLord]

Something important to me is VR bodies I don't feel right when I don't have a body it literally gives me axistential crisis

[@asimdeyaf]

Very insightful video. I signed up for your consulting Patreon tier. I look forward to sharing my VR game idea to see what you think.

[@virtualinsider]

Awesome, thank you!

[@pimi8522]

Your videos are very good, but you need more footage. I'm tired of seeing the bonelab conveyor level and the propagation blue bathroom in every video!

[@virtualinsider]

Noted!

[@jooeyyjn]

I wish more developers considered passive first person gameplay like the Moss series and Demeo. Standard first person is kinda bland to me unless it's in a social game.

[@stephen8132]

I find i need vr games with good storytelling and and depth. Are great example is No man's sky in vr. It has depth/storytelling and can crossplay with friends on all platforms.

[@F2t0ny]

I badly wish I could make games. I want to make a VR Dishonored knockoff

[@lucasbonatti1664]

That's good game dev tips overall, not just VR.

[@chrisd5016]

Maybe you should do a video on the top 10 sellers on PCVR, Quest and PSVR and if these titles meet your assumption on gameplay, graphic, unique selling point etc. of this video.

[@brucerain2106]

They fail because no aaa company bothers to make them. There’s only so much an indie company can do

[@_oBSOLEte_]

I'd rather have KZbin influencers starting to put more 3D SBS content out there than developers focusing on ingame camera for 2D streaming or recording. It has zero value for users and is only holding the tech back.

[@4879daniel]

Steam reviews are another big factor. These small games release with flaws and get crucified meaning others won't bother giving them a go even if the developer has kept working on it. Also, a lot of VR games seem to be a work in progresss with a high probability it won't get finished. I had some amazing experiences in VR but there weren't enough of them and now the headset gathers dust.

[@davidlewis2171]

On the other side of the spectrum, there's a decent amount of really promising VR games that don't have enough reviews or players for Steam to show it off to anyone. One of my favorite VR games, Musical Range, is like this. It has a lot of polish and is actively being worked on to make it even better, but barely anyone knows about it because it only has a few reviews on Steam.

[@4879daniel]

@@davidlewis2171 True, I quite enjoyed Iron Guard VR which is the only game of its type I know of in VR - just 74 reviews in two years and no signs of life on steamcharts. Really sad.

[@barricadestudio]

Great video, Alex! You really have a good eye for VR games I feel, I might contact you for consulting when District Steel is closer to the full 1.0 release :) Best, AJ

[@virtualinsider]

Thats great to hear. District Steel is a real hidden gem in my opinion and will be great when fully released.

[@4879daniel]

I played the demo a while back and it seemed pretty good in terms of overall feel. The big gap in VR for me has been a single player games with a story/progression. I have no interest in multi-player or sandbox which is what everything seems to focus on.

[@dan3a]

I usually hate marketing/direction departments, but for those small VR studios, maybe they're better off having them.

[@KhanaCreate]

I mean it doesn't help that VR tech is so bloody expensive for such a niche interest that there's far fewer people out there that are willing to buy a VR game than people who play non VR games

[@vega7865]

As a consumer, YUP, these things r definitely what have gotten me to check out games

[@ronm6585]

Thank you.

[@buijki]

Hi! I'm PR manager at the Gamedev studio. How can I contact you? Email doesn’t work :(

[@virtualinsider]

If my email isnt working for some reason you can message me through Twitter twitter.com/Virtual_Insider Or my discord discord.gg/mAumknnu

[@migueeeelet]

6:15 reminds me of the trailers for Fallout 76. Swooping camera pans of... forest tops. At this point it's becoming a cliché in my book - rather than showing gameplay or actual scenery, they just show this big pan that might as well just be a picture taken from wikipedia.

[@ForestRaptor]

Well done with this video. This is a great "introduction to VR" for gamedevs :)

[@davidlewis2171]

I've tried to give feedback for VR developers to help them make their games better, but sometimes it's hard to know what to change in order to make things better, or how to express what I think could be improved. What are some ways that you've learned to give better feedback on VR games, or just games in general?

[@Horendus123]

Well, you should always open up by trashing talking there hard work and make them feel as unless as possible. Comments like “your game looks and runs like trash” is a good opening line. Then follow up with some personal attacks and finally some tips on how to improve the title screen

[@specterman603]

Your a legend

[@BigSunn0]

It was really sad that the PC VR champions on Steam were so positive on Lonn when that was clearly such a trash piece of shovelware

[@dogadarko3783]

12:30 what is the game is it hellspit arena?

[@virtualinsider]

It is, I had the wrong tag on the top left. Sorry about that.

[@jakefarm6994]

Is this a reupload? This video is familiar ngl

[@virtualinsider]

No

[@nafsiammara]

At this stage all I want is content and optimisation. I want to play stuff and I want it to work well. I spend all my time trying to get things to work properly and when I finally do there's not enough to do. Also no one is really using their imagination which is disappointing.

[@harounalkaabitalaldehrab3621]

All I was doing while watching this was look at the names for the games so I can find good games😂

[@ravenheartwraith]

the overwhelming majority of VR games have little depth, they are kind of like mobile games, real long time gamers don't play them because they are use to so much more. I don't put any hope in "new vr" games, if something decent comes out I'll check it out, mostly I'm looking for VR games on steam early access, this is where decent vr games are coming from.

[@demonpride1975]

the truth of the matter, most vr titles don't cost hundreds of millions of dollars. no company is going invest that kind of money on a none established title. sure something like fallout 4 cost 150 million, but that was not originally designed as a vr title, and it already had been established. secondly having arms in vr or a body is not immersive, what am i staring at my body all the time, no i am not i am paying attention to the environment, plus one of the major tools that vr developers have at their disposal, is to not develop things into a game that don't add to the game. vr games require far more processing power then stand flat screen games, because their all done in a 3d environment. so trimming the fat makes games more accessible to people. not just the 1% that has the beefiest of rigs.

[@rubensantos557]

don't forget that the VR ecosystem is a complete mess right now, (i don't even understand it lol) you have multiple platforms to just start a pcvr game(with a standalone headset at least) so many performance tweaks to do(altough now things are easier too) dll downloads with instructions on how to squeeze a few more fps and let's not forget the remote layouts as well ahaha! love your videos btw man!!

[@MR.MACH1NE]

I'll do it for £115 🤪 In all seriousness good luck and I hope you get lots of interest as you certainly have a great eye for these things

[@Skyhook77]

awesome

[@kevskikane]

Can anybody tell me what the gameplay is at 00:13

[@4879daniel]

It says it on the screen in the top left. Defector - looks to be an Oculus PC game from 2019 - I'd never heard of it.

[@kevskikane]

@@4879daniel oh yeah so it does. Thanks for that. I appreciate it.

[@Blubbpaule]

They fail because they go for the quick buck (quest) while compromising their product for it. Not one game in VR i know that was developed for quest is Very good. And games that once were good got slaughtered for Quest. They get watered down or are just some gymmick game that gets boring after 2 hours. We are coming as far as getting usual PCVR games as Quest exclusives now, completely fucking over their PCVR fanbase. Games that usually got updates monthly don't get any updates for years because "we are trying to water down the game to fit on the quest" (a township tale) They don't go for fun, they go for quick bucks. That's the problem.

[@mikeylarsen5627]

Quest 2 is why

[@Randomnameidk]

3:27 demonetized

[@Evilkingus]

So it was an ad all along 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@virtualinsider]

Not really but im glad you found it funny at least.

[@bonnie2537]

Balls

[@RusShiro]

let me know if you get any jobs im curious if someone actually hires you.

[@arenam79]

after 20 minutes of gameplay on any VR game it just gets repetitive. 98% of all VR games are just demos..

[@Pellejones]

Contact the developers of Ghosts of Tabor. It is a wonderful game but jank. Combat Waffle Games they are called.

[@virtualinsider]

I will add them to the list. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@Burgerflippa]

Second ):

[@magpineapple]

150$ is way too much for some random youtube guy to play your game

[@virtualinsider]

Its actually very cheap considering it will be pretty much a full days work once I have done testing and edited up a video with all my feedback. I have already had one person sign up through patreon but thanks for the feedback.

[@magpineapple]

@@virtualinsider Actually yeah since your editing it and stuff