How To Turn Your Passion Into A Business Without Sacrifice - James Hoffmann

First 200 get 20% off the annual premium subscription for Brilliant: brilliant.org/deepdive
Visit curiositystream.com/deepdive to get 42% off annual plans at Curiosity Stream and complimentary access to Nebula.
📚Check out my New York Times Bestselling book Feel-Good Productivity!
Amazon: geni.us/JFhDr5?...
Website: www.feelgoodproductivity.com/...
Many of us dream about turning our passion or hobby into the thing we do everyday, but very few of us actually do it. In this episode I talk to World Barista Champion and co-founder of Square Mile Coffee Roasters James Hoffmann about how he had the confidence to make a career out of coffee. Expect to hear how he built a bricks and mortar business from scratch, his regrets about hustling and burnout, and how he’s amassed a KZbin following of 1.23M subscribers.
Season 2 Episode 10
00:00 Coming up...
2:28 Becoming A World Barista Champion
10:41The Economics Of Starting A Coffee Shop
14:03 The Business of Starting A Business
20:08 Profit Is Seen As A Dirty Word
22:56 Lessons In Entrepreneurship
33:10 How Important Is Having A Purpose In Business?
39:28 Bricks and Morter Vs Digital Businesses
46:28 The Dangers Of Hustling and Burnout
54:24 Enjoyment At Work & Sustainability Of Square Mile Coffee
01:10:44 Stepping Back As A Business Owner
01:14:39 Getting Into KZbin
01:24:36 What are your streams of income?
🔗 CONNECT WITH JAMES
🎥 KZbin Channel - @jameshoffmann
🐦 Twitter - / jimseven
📸 Instagram - / jimseven
💻 Website - www.jameshoffmann.co.uk/
☕️ Stone Mile Coffee Roasters - shop.squaremilecoffee.com/
🔗 CONNECT WITH ALI
🎥 KZbin Channel - / aliabdaal
🐦 Twitter - / aliabdaal
📸 Instagram - / aliabdaal
💻 Website - aliabdaal.com
👥 Linkedin - / ali-abdaal
📚 RESOURCES MENTIONED
The E Myth Revisited by Michael E Gerber - geni.us/l82ef
The Great CEO Within by Matt Mochary - geni.us/jrMmh
Seth Godins Blog - seths.blog/
11 Reasons Not To Become Famous (Tim Ferriss' Blog Post) - tim.blog/2020/02/02/reasons-t...
📄SHOW NOTES & TRANSCRIPT
Visit the website for the transcript and highlights from the conversation - aliabdaal.com/podcast/
🎙 ABOUT THE PODCAST
Deep Dive is the podcast that delves into the minds of entrepreneurs, creators and other inspiring people to uncover their journey's towards finding joy and fulfilment at work and in life. In each episode our host Ali Abdaal talks to his guests about their philosophies, strategies and tools that have helped them along their personal path to living a life of happiness and meaning. There's no manual for living a happy life, but we hope that from these shared experiences you'll leave each episode with practical advice you can use to help you along the way.
Want to start your own podcast? We use Transistor! go.aliabdaal.com/transistor
🎧 LISTEN FOR FREE
Apple Podcasts - podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast...
Spotify - open.spotify.com/show/7gZkflC...
RSS - feeds.transistor.fm/deep-dive
🙏 LEAVE A REVIEW
If you enjoyed listening to the podcast, we'd love for you to leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts to help others discover the show :) podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast...
🧠 SPONSORED BY BRILLIANT
This episode is kindly supported by Brilliant, the best way to learn maths, science and computer science online. Brilliant focuses on helping you learn through interactive courses that work to develop your intuition and first principles knowledge, rather than just memorising methods and facts. Sign up at brilliant.org/deepdive - the first 200 people will receive 20% off the annual premium subscription.
🍿 SPONSORED BY CURIOSITY STREAM
This episode is kindly supported by Curiosity Stream, the leading streaming subscription platform that gives you access to thousands of documentaries and non-fiction titles. Curiosity stream also support independent creators on their platform Nebula which is run by me and other creators where you can access exclusive content including the original episodes of Deep Dive which you won't find anywhere else. You also get early, ad free access to mine and a bunch of other creators videos. Sign up at curiositystream.com/deepdive and you'll get 42% off annual plans as well as FREE ACCESS to Nebula as a part of the bundle.
👋🏼 GET IN TOUCH
You can also Tweet @AliAbdaal with any feedback, ideas or thoughts about the lessons you've learnt from the episodes and we can thank you personally for tuning in 🙏
PS: Some of the links in this description are affiliate links that I get a kickback from 😜

[@brandon-leelucas3534]

Here as a James Hoffman fan, hearing him drop the f bomb is a lot like hearing your grade school teacher curse for the first time.

[@KTOWNK1D]

It's so satisfying :)

[@paradise_valley]

Caught me very much off guard. 😬😁😅

[@szymonbalcer]

literally

[@mahesahoesain5587]

true true

[@blahdy]

what time does he drop it?

[@zapbas]

"I don't believe in legacy, but I think it's a shame not to leave something better than you found it." That's a great way to live life

[@felicialally5703]

"Get the grind on" "pour yourself into it" Coffee business motivation

[@theburgundynetwork3432]

As a coffee professional of 11 years, I've found that pouring hot water into it is much more efficient. Pouring yourself into it usually end up in a mess with ground coffee all over the counter, a broken v60/chemex, and still no brewed coffee to drink.

[@tomgoulden3339]

@@theburgundynetwork3432 interesting point, however I’m not entirely convinced that you’ve done adequate research to come to such a bold conclusion as that. Where is your evidence?

[@vjkwaeguiv12]

"Get the right grind size" "Pour over with the right volume of boiling water" haha

[@heygraceshockey]

I love how he is talks about the specific details of his business, but also the larger mindset around it (I.e. not grinding yourself into a bad mental health state). So refreshing to hear this from very successful entrepreneurs!

[@Coffee-es7uz]

Xxxxx P

[@jpkatz1435]

It's a paradox, these very successfully folks tell a similar tale of working thier buts off and then having SOME regret that they had too work so hard to get successful. "The harder I work the luckier I get." ?

[@heygraceshockey]

@@jpkatz1435 That's true.. I have heard many entrepreneurs say this. **My personal feeling** is that our system is set up so you almost HAVE to work really hard at something (doesn't mean you have to be miserable tho) before you can experience freedom.. I don't personally believe this includes working FOR someone. It's really hard to create freedom doing that

[@consultingcharlie6044]

Huge fan of James Hoffman, have been since I discovered him in 2020. This is perhaps the best episode of Deep Dive. Particularly liked the anti-hustle culture angle. Would love if you have him back again in the future

[@candiceevawilliams6]

Up there with Huel! Still my fave.

[@user-iw7qu6ri5o]

​@@candiceevawilliams61:46 1:38

[@thankfullynonumbers]

Part 2, please. This was an excellent pairing.

[@DeepDivewithAliAbdaal]

Noted! Did an episode with James on my main channel too if you're interested :)

[@yiannis_p]

“I often think about the staggering lack of long term thinking I had” what a line

[@MrFennmeista]

I would to say that Mr. Hoffmann is a rare cultural phenomenon with regards to the world of coffee. Such dedication and passion to the art. And the passing of knowledge to the next generation is invaluable

[@bphh]

James is incredibly generous with his passion.

[@ipetiz]

James could teach any subject.

[@EuropeanCoffeeTrip]

Okay, we need to do a better job, so Ali knows more than one coffee KZbinr:) It was exciting to hear James talking less about coffee and more about business. Great conversation!

[@janhilado]

Hope to see you in ine of his deep dives soon. A fan here. 😊

[@EuropeanCoffeeTrip]

@@janhilado thanks Jan! It would be a pleasure to meet Ali.

[@t0m714]

Brilliant video, James is articulate, amusing, insightful and candid about the joys and frustrations of making a business out of your passion. Ali is a genuinely curious interviewer who pokes and prods away to uncover greater layers of depth, and the resulting conversation is engaging and engrossing. Top job all round.

[@SquidandCatAdventures]

I've been getting into James' channel and the really nice thing about this format is that he can talk about his own story much more than he ever would on his own channel. You're fortunate to have such an interesting guest. He could talk about anything and be fascinating. Almost wish that I could find something where he's talking about Eastern studies and philosophy now, lol.

[@_lublub]

I think the most important factor to do any business is to love what you are doing. Without purpose, there's no meaning. And yes finally the full episode!

[@brekkoh]

"I suffered I would like you not to suffer" james would make a good parent as well, too many parents just feed their children into the vicious cycle they got raised in.

[@robertmarsh8334]

James Hoffman is a global treasure! I always love hearing his perspectives on things and since I am starting a coffee roasting business, this was especially insightful ❤

[@whynot7242]

So glad he shared the comment about not running yourself to the ground. I feel like we are taught that you have to endure periods of intense suffering to make anything work in life but I believe that’s really short term thinking. You need put things into perspective and view them in the long run, the more you can enjoy whatever you’re doing (building a business, a relationship, etc.) the less burnout and the more overall life enjoyment

[@nickdlf]

A great interview I can't wait for that second round.. I was fascinating hearing James talk about himself and his journey in such depth. I agree with Ali I would love to learn more about the history of coffee too!

[@CaritoCarrion]

One of the best chats from this season!!! Much great advice and sincerity around the raw + unedited feelings about the "entrepreneurial life"...

[@laurenmelissaj]

This was such an enjoyable episode. You and James are probably my two favourite KZbinrs. Good vibes all around

[@trevortriano]

Fantastic, I love both you guys and it was really fun to see you both in conversation. You both are very special people, keep up the great work!

[@nurelhuda5684]

I love this conversation. His philosophy in life and his drive are insightful and refreshing from all the "how to make a million dollar". I was already a fan, now I am even bigger one.

[@KNURKonesur]

What a fantastic discussion! I'd love part 2 to be more about photography and the ethics of coffee, the process, farming, working with the farmers, sourcing etc.

[@schraderclemens6122]

It‘s amazing how good you have become at interviewing people. One great question after another and you really delve into what your guests are saying hence exposing some really great insights!

[@espressofun6091]

Hey, this was a very long video, but I watched the whole thing. It felt so casual and enjoyable like I was sitting there with you. Thank you very much.

[@nathanorchard201]

I really enjoyed this, been a fan of James Hoffman, but this format of discussion was really insightful. Newly subscribed member… look forward to watching the back catalogue.

[@CarolineJuneee]

Loved this! Love the attitude towards business and not inflating lifestyle etc. Fab episode, thanks Ali & team 🙂

[@anupedhanday1197]

Great conversation, fascinating insights especially on crossover and differences between passion, skill and running a business - of the best deep dives yet.

[@bradyvilhauer4445]

As a business owner this was so dope and kindred to our business & reaffirming of our desires as a business. Absolutely love how deep you guys get into business detail

[@algauthier]

I follow both of you and found this conversation to be a excellent one. Very well done. Thanks for the open sharing James! Lots of value to be found here.

[@FlorianLinscheid]

James made me really love coffee and this episode and James‘ thoughts were highly insightful and enjoyable! Thanks for that and I also would love a second round.

[@ThatMarkGilroy]

I started watching James’ channel long before I got into coffee. It’s just awesome hearing people who are so passionate about something enthuse about it. Looking at his content through this lens gives my perception of him seemingly enjoying his output a totally different slant.

[@capturedbyfabian]

I recently started watching these interviews from you and they have been the greatest discovery in youtube in a long time. Great stuff and amazing guest 👏🏼 great job ✌🏼

[@RyanContreras72]

Managing money is different from accumulating wealth, and the lack of investment education in schools may explain why people struggle to maintain their financial gains. The examples you provided are relevant, and I personally benefited from the market crisis, as I embrace challenging times while others tend to avoid them. Well, at least my advisor does too, jokingly.

[@blessingpaul5484]

Investors should exercise caution with their exposure and exercise caution when considering new investments, particularly during periods of inflation. It is advisable to seek guidance from a professional or trusted advisor in order to navigate this recession and achieve potential high yields.

[@KatherineAnderson-lm8bw]

This is superb! Information, as a noob it gets quite difficult to handle all of this and staying informed is a major cause, how do you go about this are you a pro investor?

[@RyanContreras72]

Through closely monitoring the performance of my portfolio, I have witnessed a remarkable growth of $483k in just the past two quarters. This experience has shed light on why experienced traders are able to generate substantial returns even in lesser-known markets. It is safe to say that this bold decision has been one of the most impactful choices I have made recently.

[@alicebenard5713]

Wow, that’s stirring! Do you mind connecting me to your advisor please. I desperately need one to diversified my portfolio.

[@user-cr8nd1sy8e]

I’ve actually been looking into advisors lately, the news I’ve been seeing in the market hasn’t been so encouraging. who’s the person guiding you?

[@amandashelley221]

Such a captivating conversation that is answering so many questions and alleviating so much fear in launching of a brick and mortar business. Full of gems, thank you!

[@user-vc6yf8ef2i]

A collaboration that I never imagined I would get, but definitely the one I needed

[@Zenmaruu]

Absolutely loveeee both of your channels. I hope this video blows up

[@stumurch]

Omg the collab I’ve been waiting for!

[@emmaguapo7759]

So many interesting things about this. I love his drive but amazed by his drive and ethical considerations and fresh perspective on not overworking yourself in a business. Sadly not everyone has the chance to build up enough capital so they don’t have to work themselves to death but I think it is still an important philosophy.

[@DaleClaassen]

Plenty of great points made on building teams and fostering healthier workplaces. Brilliant episode

[@mcmaschio]

The full episodee … yesss 🔥 A comment for the Algorithm 💯 also love ur approach of posting clips before the full episode as compared to what other podcasts do … effective mini trailers 😝

[@CreativeTies_]

Brilliant Conversion and so much value! 🍀 I do wish there was a little bit more talk about YT and how James manages that. Is there a team, how far ahead do they plan, how do they choose topics .... Maybe next time.

[@brianburtt7053]

I've fairly recently discovered James' work. So I really enjoyed this look into his backstory.

[@matthewweimer5861]

Two of my favorite KZbinrs in one room! Thanks Ali!

[@latristessdurera8763]

James is an awesome guest! Love his insight into business management. *I also think his hair is amazing 🤩

[@ChrisInmanDrums]

Amazing interview! So many good points. Of course the umbrella one - don’t kill yourself in the name of becoming “successful” - is my no. 1. There’s been so many times when I’ve had to battle the urge to go “all out” just to achieve a certain goal knowing it’s healthier to take my time, settle for achieving whatever it is over a longer period rather than in the short term at the cost of something more important, like my health. Conversations like this just remind me to keep up with that. On another note - I cannot wait to order some of your coffee! I have a friend in London who raves about your business and the coffee quality! I was halfway through the podcast before I realised this was the same guy 😅 Next weeks mornings are gonna be 😍 ☕️

[@BearsOnASubmarine]

Very sage advice at the macro and micro level. Great Deep Dive!

[@ALEXAWRIGHT]

Really enjoyed this interview, and I love the plant-filled set! Excellent production and conversation. The way James Hoffman speaks reminds me of Alain de Botton.

[@hfaria80]

Thanks for sharing, Ali! Great interview.

[@christoph4794]

didn't expect so much openness and honesty 😅 could have listened for another 2h 👍

[@jdhayes]

Just awesome. A great, honest conversation that was extremely insightful.

[@jenniferdeshon389]

There is so much great information here! Plus! James Hoffman and his wonderfully charming self!

[@JoseAguilar-vt9zt]

James H is one of my favorite channels. Great video!

[@ballroomred]

Couldn’t wait to watch this one! I love James Hoffman. Also, got a kick out of Ali having no idea who Howard Schultz was 😂 (former longtime CEO of Starbucks)

[@mrduke6101]

Such an enjoyable episode. Keep it up!

[@pglickman]

Oh man. Really enjoyed this one. Loved the bit about his approach to working with small businesses. The goal wasn’t just to sell them beans, but to help them to have success in business.

[@AlexandruAtudosie]

I can’t believe you got the Hoff on the pod. My favourite episode to date!

[@DrBrunoRecipes]

Excellent interview 👌🏻Thanks for sharing this honest interview 😊 Greetings from Scotland 😊 Have a wonderful day everyone 🌻

[@eviefromthemummy]

James's excitment over being able to swear is priceless

[@shabbytrip6630]

It's really effective podcast with hoffman , I found a lot of experience about business

[@AndyJamerson]

Oh yessssss!!!! I already know this is going to be an amazing episode! 🤩

[@lukerobertson1000]

Super insightful! thank you both so much!!

[@eigojiyouzu]

immediate like. Two of my favorite blokes

[@DaftRebel]

I've been following this guy for several years now, Ibelieve that from the blor era! I'm very satisfied with this interview and I hope there more liek this to come! Cheers from Argentina

[@mynock250]

James Hoffmann is amazing.

[@makemoneywithjoannaleyan]

This is great! thanks for sharing this video. More power!

[@bernard4realz]

This was a deeply insightful video. It was really interesting to see how a rise and grind culture can really eat away your passion for something if left unchecked. We should rather optimize for sustainability. Love this interview!

[@OutOfDevOps]

Thanks to both of you. Lots of insights and lessons. Very inspiring.

[@zoechu9385]

My two most favorite men on KZbin in one episode. Thank you Ali.

[@evindrews]

What an unbelievably successful person - I had no idea. Great interview

[@mestrebarista]

Loved the interview, Both there are great, smart people

[@ehhabox1256]

What a collab… GREAT

[@paulakidd9532]

This was fantastic. I have been following James for quite a while, and this was quite interesting. Thank you for your insight and probing questions to James.

[@DeepDivewithAliAbdaal]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@lindseydavis-jordan4113]

James is the man, man.

[@seempaq]

This has been such an amazing conversation for me (as a coffee business owner myself) its sooooooooooooooooooo cool to have 2 amazing people discuss my favourite subject: entrepreneurship & coffe!!! :D wow +1

[@petercomitini6308]

Excellent interview. Nice to know more about James Hoffman. Very insightful stuff. ☕️

[@missredhead5995]

Omg what am I watching THIS IS SOME PARALLEL UNIVERSE IN MY DREAM AND IT IS HAPPENING

[@lagoona2099]

The two content creators I love 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@ChanelGreco5]

Great thoughts and discussions. Thanks Ali & James.

[@ninetieskiddo]

The crossover we never thought we needed! ☕️

[@isidiazj]

Wow James is quite a special kind of business man. Lots of respect

[@awesomfog345]

This was phenomenal

[@BBAsAsya]

Great interview! Got many insights 👌🏻thanks.

[@jazzmoon77]

I hate coffee but this was fascinating. I know a lot of digital people probably don’t think they’ll ever have the same challenges with stepping out of the ops side of their business and installing and MD, but I know it’s a concept that I need to prepare for and really appreciated his insights on that area.

[@benharries8965]

Best interview yet 👌👌

[@johnnykirkinnes7872]

Hi Ali, I stumbled across your interview with James and just finish watching it. Or should I say the algorithm pointed me towards your video as I subscribe to James and watch all of his videos. 🙂 Anyway I just wanted to say it was an excellent video and I really enjoyed your interview style, I'll subscribe to your channel and be sure to watch some more of your interviews. Thanks again, Johnny.

[@charlesmartineau]

that was dope -- so much good learning

[@zinhlemlangeni01]

James Hoffman is very relatable 🤞🏾

[@Bernoulliflyer]

Ali, you are a kind soul. Thank you for all the insights that come through your guests.

[@fuadimunzir]

It's just very satisfying to get better at something

[@perforatedfold]

as an artist i completely relate to this, esp 18:34 art of creating (the craft) vs profit and the shift needed to make it sustainable biz. read e myth based on ur rec, eye opening!

[@WackyPacky]

Been waiting for this

[@MDrishad-td9xj]

A great Interview, i just started this podcast with this video

[@DebojyotiDutta680]

keep up the good work Ali

[@manuelabusuttil4361]

This was great! Thank you

[@arthuslim]

Wow, James Hoffman. Love these channels of Ali.

[@siddarthauppugandla8780]

I just learnt a new lesson: If you don't like a product, dont say the product is worse rather say I dont enjoy it....lovely...

[@ghost-user559]

Well also don’t lie? I mean if it’s genuinely terrible tell people that or you are lying. People should be honest, and you will look much worse if something is genuinely bad if you say you don’t enjoy it and people get scammed. So it’s a fine line between optimism and lying to save face.

[@aqasanu1992]

Great conversation

[@fincayabisi]

Loved this!

[@abram413]

Wonderful interview

[@samuelvarga3223]

This was great!