How We Solved the Worst Minigame in Zelda's History

[@Linkus7]

Hello Everyone! First of all, thank you so much for the incredible feedback on the video, it makes me so happy to see that so many people seem to enjoy it! However, nothing is perfect, and I can tell that there are a few common questions that I have been getting in the comments, so I would like to clear up some of the most asked questions right here! First, I have seen a lot of people mention that the audio seems a bit low? Personally for me, I did not notice that the audio was low, with my headset and audio settings. The audio seemed perfect, however, after a lot of people commented on it, I did notice that my videos are much more quite compared to other videos, so I will try and tweak that in the future, and I apologize for this mistake. Second of all, I have heard a lot of people ask if this can be used in Randomizers, or for normal playthroughs, and if that 5.5 Million RNG Steps we talked about in the video is locked in. Thankfully this is not the case. When using the App, you can set the value to whatever value, and it will apply the same logic explained in the video, to any part of the RNG Steps. So lets say you get to windfall, You save and reset the game. You could set the program to look at steps 0 to 300K for example, and the program will work perfectly, so there is no issue setting this to whatever value you please, we only used 5.5 Million as an example. And third and final question I have seen a lot, is if this does not make the run a Tool Assisted Speedrun? I know that this is a bit more complicated, because this comes down to opinion. Commonly when it comes to TAS, or Tool Assisted Speedruns, we mostly consider tools that directly interact with the game itself, Tool Assisted Speedruns. For example, it is a very common practice to use Metronomes to help time difficult tricks in speedrunning. Yes, this is an external tool outside of the game that is assisting the speedrunner, but it does not make it fall under TAS. Livesplit that we use, helps you remember the route, you get the idea. And if someone is really not for using this program, this program does not save time compared to playing the game without it, all it does it make it consistent so you don't have to reset as often. I also heard a lot of people bring up a slippery slope argument, and that is why Screen Capturing was voted down for this tool, and was kept to only manual. Because if one screen capturing tool was allowed, then if we allowed more screen capturing tools, it could give players a huge advantage on many parts of the run, while how it currently stands, this manual program cannot be applied to any other part of Wind Waker. This type of program to predict RNG has also been seen in many other Speedrunning communities in the past, so this is not the first time a program like this has been implemented. I hope that covers most of the questions people had! And once again, thank you all so much for the amazing support on the video!

[@seancamab]

I think it was Karl Jobst who mentioned in one video that when considering rules tweaks that the fun for the runners and entertainment for the audiences is also important. If you think about it from this perspective this tool is super important becauee restarting runs on bad RNG is unfun for the runner and not entertaining for the audience.

[@bendrowned8506]

Linkus7 thanks for the essay

[@IllusoryMaze]

@Wonder You would have to search for the first board in all 7 trillion possible RNG outcomes (that's the period of WW's RNG function stated in the video) instead of just a few hundred thousands as shown here. That would give you so many results you would get a flat heat map. One thrown board would definitely not be enough, so you'd have to throw another board and search for all the matches. The video doesn't show enough details, but I've got a pretty good hunch two boards wouldn't be enough either. In fact, I'd expect you need several boards to succesfully narrow it down. On top of that, the computational complexity of that search would massively increase; I have no idea how efficient the search itself is, but there's a chance each step would take non-negligible time to complete. In other words, it'd work but wouldn't save time.

[@NinjarioPicmin]

@Wonder yes i was thinking the same, also i guess once you know the code it is pretty easy to convert any given random number to the board it generates by just applying the same code, but reversing that process, meaning to have a board and get back all the different random numbers that could have generated it...like what???

[@Hexagonaldonut]

The funny thing about this to me is if it does anything to the runner's time, it actually *slows it down,* but the massive increase in consistency is more than worth the tradeoff. I saw the 100% run at GDQ a while back. I saw how much time was sank into Sploosh Kaboom. It wasn't enjoyable as a viewer and I know it sure as hell wasn't enjoyable for the runner. So if this makes all that go away, hell yes!

[@Nanaki404]

How to cure cancer : 1) Create a game in which the cure for cancer saves a few seconds in an unskippable part of the game 2) Wait for the speedrunning community to develop a cure for cancer

[@Hello-qg4yk]

GENIUS

[@person_perhaps]

YES

[@peterarendt7283]

That is very close to being reality: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foldit

[@mrsomebody5087]

@@peterarendt7283 haha yes FOLDIT!My chemistry teacher had the whole class sit for a couple of minutes each class and play.

[@yourmomsboyfriend3337]

“Yeah so this part used to be unskippable but linkus found out that if you rewrite your genetic code to mutate and specifically target cancer cells you can completely skip the whole cancer section of the game, which ended up saving 4 seconds in RTA”

[@SyphistPrime]

This is a testament to how dedicated speedrunners are towards hating RNG. I love it.

[@keenanthornley7680]

Dude right? Basically the bane of lots of speedruns. Speedrunning is best when it's the player's skill put to the test, and not a chance where RNGesus can choose to screw someone over every single time while others have him on their side. Hundreds, if not thousands (hell maybe even more) of hours of practice can be pointless, which is exactly why a large portion of the speedrunning community almost always show support for programs like this. While RNG is accepted as inherent for some speedruns, it's awesome to see how much damn work went into this attempt to help level the playing field for WW speedrunners everywhere. And, in my opinion, the best part is that it isn't automatic, it's manual, so it now brings the minigame down to the skill of the player.

[@SyphistPrime]

@@keenanthornley7680 yeah. It's even worse when it's something like this that can just kill runs. This is kinda like Dampe from OoT, where bad RNG could be a run killer. Thankfully now people will not have to worry about it. Any run killer RNG that's snuffed out is a victory for all speedrunners.

[@Someguyhere111]

@@keenanthornley7680 Just pray to Lord Helix adn you'll get good RNG every time. If you get bad RNG it's because you didn't pray hard enough. Or you angered Lord Helix somehow. Or Lord Helix is just being a dick. It's honestly pretty random whether you'll have good RNG or bad RNG.

[@Salted_Fysh]

And yet largely RNG based games have some of the biggest Speedrunning communities. I don't think it's accurate to say, that dedicated Speedrunners are opposed to RNG in general or they wouldn't run these games in the first place in favour of more technical runs. It's just an assumption, but I believe the reason why RNG-heavy runs have such a big following is because the completely optimal run is almost impossible and there is always the hope to improve on the time just by getting better RNG rolls. The reason why this particular example irked so many people is probably because when you play a minigame like this that marks a mechanically very different moment, it breaks the illusion that you are somehow able to do anything to improve your odds. It's just pure luck throughout and it's also very obvious.

[@aggese]

Half make me want to make a game with a hardware true random number generator in it :-D

[@wallywalrus2]

Linkus: Finally after 10 years we can solve this minigame! Peter: But first, we need to talk about parallel probability curves!

[@Estus1999]

You misspelled "parallel universes"

[@christoffar]

@@Estus1999 This isn't SM64, """"""""""Henry""""""""""!

[@dtracers]

Also denoted as PPC but if you noticed there were 4 parallel probability curves but in there second one we were down to 1 this is because we were alligned on the PPC grid also known as PPCA

[@pcachu]

@@dtracers Solving Sploosh-Kaboom With 1/2 PPCA Presses

[@clockworkclementine4136]

I am so happy I am not the only one who thought about this

[@miskdjen2996]

As a stat teacher I'm tempted to show my students your breakdown of heat maps that was a great breakdown

[@zacheray]

If I had known stats apply to my favorite hobby, I probably would have loved to learn about that application.. I say do it

[@chrisborgars-smith2439]

Ask them what's wrong at 10:35 for extra credit :P

[@tom0557]

@@chrisborgars-smith2439 i dont see anything apart from x/y missing

[@lock_ray]

@@chrisborgars-smith2439 should be probability density instead of probability?

[@jarrakul]

There are a lot of things that are /technically/ wrong in this video. In that particular frame, for example, we see a continuous probability distribution shown for discrete events (there's no such thing as a 14.5th RNG call, for example). That means the use of "probability" is appropriate here, as opposed to "probability density," but the probabilities would not appear to make a smooth curve at the resolution shown at the 10:35 time. Another "error" is that the video also contains a lot of overly-strong-language, in the sense of "we know that it can't be these possibilities because they're outside our bell curve". Assuming these are discrete Gaussian distributions, they technically extend infinitely in both directions, meaning that even these unlikely events have some non-zero probability of occurring. But these are details. Given the level of statistical understanding required to make the tool, I have no doubt the creators are aware of the places where the video is technically wrong. Instead of spending a long time to say the literally correct thing, they've spent less time saying something that's correct-in-essence. That's also probably much easier for most folks to understand, which was obviously a goal in putting this explanation together. All in all, I think they did a fantastic job.

[@BioYuGi]

This is literally the episode of Yu Yu Hakusho where the genius kid memorized every possible sequence of questions in a quiz video game but needed to wait for the first five answers to go by, and then he was able to answer every question correctly before the question even came up.

[@RoundShades]

YES!

[@vrenus8296]

A true man of culture i see

[@yamiryushi]

And also why Kurama is the scariest of the quartet after what he did to Toguro because of it.

[@debayeuxchats5607]

I’m watching YYH for the first time, and every time I see this comment I go “heh, not there yet!” and basically immediately forget. I’m excited to actually see it, at this point!

[@crawmslor5943]

@@debayeuxchats5607 why would you look at this comment so much

[@Wauly]

7:16 Huge props to whoever animated that heat map. Very easy to understand. Also incredible breakdown for how the whole thing works. Wow

[@a3roflow90]

The creator of the app did, he said it in the video.

[@peterschmidt-nielsen3577]

Thank you so much! I spent probably like 40+ hours on just the animations alone (they were done 100% in Javascript, and took about 2,500 lines of code). It's wonderful to hear how much people appreciate them.

[@squeegeemcgee]

Peter Schmidt-Nielsen how the fuck do you even implement JavaScript animations into a video? that’s wild. it paid off though, I always appreciate these sorts of visual aids, I can only imagine the difficulty and effort that goes into making them

[@ShakerGER]

@@peterschmidt-nielsen3577 So did you actually compile ALL OF THE FUCKING MAPS into the big flat heatmap or did you just wing it?

[@TheDrake1066]

@@peterschmidt-nielsen3577 Great job, that was about as great as the animation 3Blue1brown does!

[@vincentpol]

1940s: "We will make a $13million digital computer that is able to eliminate all possible combinations of the enigma machine that the nazis are NOT using to find the one we need!" 2020: "We can use that to solve a minigame for speedrunning!"

[@GarryDumblowski]

It also sounds like computing has gotten much farther than it was in the 1940s. The first computer used to solve the enigma machine was absurdly expensive, but now they're fast enough, small enough, and accessible enough that some random guy can just program an algorithm to solve some random minigame. It's a testament to how far computer science has come.

[@Hexagonaldonut]

@@GarryDumblowski Hell yes!

[@Josuh]

Comment thread turned out oddly wholesome

[@Someguyhere111]

The Allies used that machine to speedrun WW2.

[@pandakekok7319]

Someguyhere If the Allies just learned how to BLJ, they could have save a year

[@TacetTheTerror]

I can't wait until someone tries explaining this during an AGDQ run. XD

[@dalemonshateu6948]

Tacet the Terror It’ll be something like ‘we use bell curves to calculate-‘ “we just use statistics.”

[@seansimonalle8896]

First we need to talk about parallel universes

[@nameless-zw8qh]

A third of the way into the run someone pulls out projecter, screen and laser pointer.... 'So... Let's start with bell curves....'

[@DanielDugovic]

They could spend the first half-hour explaining this, in anticipation of the minigame. It would be great.

[@dooplon5083]

@Haley Fucking Halcyon - Gaming Channel Well that's actually pretty compact actually

[@astropocalypse]

I'm actually going to show this to my dad, he's a mathematics professor and is really interested in this. He has never played a video game. Well done.

[@mikuenjoyerXD]

Update?

[@astropocalypse]

@@mikuenjoyerXD Showing it now, he thinks it's cool. Greatest achievement of my life.

[@braytongoodall2598]

what sort of math does he do?

[@yonatanbeer3475]

@@astropocalypse that's sweet ❤️

[@astropocalypse]

​@@braytongoodall2598 Applied Maths

[@amberlee4536]

The amount of effort for so little gain is inspiring. A true testament to "we did it because we knew there had to be a way"

[@iBasheveryone]

5 hours!

[@buttonasas]

The video said around 75% of speedruns get reset here and so for 25% of the runs where you spend 30 minutes until here, you also spend 1.5 hours (which is not part of the speedrun but it _is_ part of your life and time allocated for speedrunning, which means a LOT) so I'd say 1.5 hours for every run that gets to this point is not "little gain".

[@Jdietz43]

"Grandpa, what did you win this Nobel Peace Prize for again?" "Sploosh Kaboom, Timmy." "Sploosh Kaboom..."

[@pablorojas6219]

1800 likes and no comments lol

[@shinypichu1819]

@@pablorojas6219 could be an KZbin name lol

[@TheWayOfShawn]

As a person who just enjoys watching speedruns casually, this blows my mind just how much thought goes into all of this, and watching the point when Linkus clicked on the correct inputs perfectly based on the probability generator had me audibly say: *No fucking way*

[@erm_5557]

lol same

[@proxy1035]

then you should look into some other speedrun techniques, there is a lot of crazy stuff out there kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z4Sql4yhjdR6oMk RGME is a great channel for this

[@Owfore1]

spoilers

[@kane8165]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/roPQk3l5e6qCgcU explaining the creation of mario 64 run without mario

[@TheWayOfShawn]

@@proxy1035 ill check them out, thanks

[@NoshuHyena]

I'm glad it was voted to be legal. Too often, rulemaking gets stuck in a loop of "this rule is here because it matches the rule before it" and the rules start getting more and more arbitrary because of that. But making the program legal keeps the spirit of why rules are there in the first place: to make speedrunning a better experience.

[@amethonys2798]

Honestly removing unnecessary RNG makes it more competitive. You could have a god tier run of all gold splits going up to some RNG section (like Dampe in OoT) and get your run completely ruined due to no real fault of your own.

[@seanissomething]

Hear hear

[@WoodymC]

Actually, rules are (well, should be) in place for overall consistency, i.e. to make different runs and runners comparable to each other. Same goes for any other kinds of rulesets like jurisdiction, operation procedures, etc.

[@andrewp6738]

I think this also still fits with the general framework of what’s considered legal for most speedruns anyway. Notes, calculators, timers, etc. are all considered legal because they can help a runner’s perception of what’s going on in the game and maximize their utilization of their own skill.

[@arrestedeffort]

Same could be said about certain laws as well, but I agree.

[@vahe1813]

"Kaboom ! Kaboom ! Kaboom ! - Wouhou ! Wouhou ! Wouhou !" First known human communication with a machine, 2020.

[@epicgaming7813]

va hé cleverbot

[@elliejohnson2786]

"When will we even use this in life?" Here. This is when we will use this in life.

[@myrpatroll]

If they actually could show us, it would motivate better.

[@elliejohnson2786]

@@myrpatroll EXACTLY.

[@IndagoCo]

This is the first time I've ever been 100% on board with using an outside tool for a speedrun. It takes a completely luck based section and puts skill back into it.

[@tartantulakid666]

Exactly. I love watching 100% speedruns for Ocarina of Time but fuck Dampe. Technically I would consider myself a purist but I would be completely fine adding a tiny rule where runners can cheat a heart piece if it means skipping Dampe. I love watching old Nintendo speedruns but I hate how many runs die to RNG. I think that speedrunning communities should be lenient on making exceptions to skipping parts that are out of the runners' control. For those who don't know Dampe is a gravekeeper who you can give some rupees for a chance to get a free heart piece (1/10). There are a dozen graves that he can pass by during the night cycle which increases your chance of EVENTUALLY getting a heart piece. Problem is that you lose 10 seconds every time he moves towards the next grave and the worst part is that you are not guaranteed a heart piece even if he passes all the graves during the night cycle. OOT 100% runs are nearly 4 hours long and it's such a shame how many runs die to dampe.

[@andrewp6738]

I’m not even sure it adds that much skill - once you learn how to operate the tool (which is straightforward), you just click the hottest tiles in the grid. But it absolutely does remove the insane random chance which is a positive all around

[@PapaBadDadcumsuckgod]

SpunkyMonkeyEUW Yeah that requires actually modifying the game which is such a different issue. Outside tools that do not interface with the game pretty much have to be allowed. Theres no way to definitively prove someone did or didnt use it in a run, and if you banned a tool like this you'd have to ban any spreadsheet or notepad document used to keep information about patterns, setups, routes, backups, etc... Splitting hairs on which outside program to allow and not allow would be stupid, so this program obviously should be allowed to be used. Modifying a game though is an entirely separate issue, and the top runner of the only category affected by Dampe doesn't think Dampe should be modified because hes a part of the game like everything else

[@tartantulakid666]

@@PapaBadDadcumsuckgod you can cheat cheat single heset pieces with glitches. No need for mods.

[@maxireigl1919]

@l L I think you're slightly underestimating the complexity of a speedrun. If I sat down with, say, Ocarina of Time right now and started playing with the assistance of a programm as described by you, I'd probably still suck because consistently performing very precise tricks without having practiced to the point of it becoming muscle memory is really difficult. And if I took the time to learn these things, then I'd basically have to practice like every other speedrunner with my one advantage being having the latest developments and best routes summarized for me by an AI rather than having to look these things up myself.

[@marcgomez8391]

The editing is crisp af, makes the video so easy to follow. I freaking loved it.

[@andrewp6738]

^ 3blue1brown is shaking

[@emlun]

So I guess the minigame will just be called "Kaboom" from now on?

[@mattiviljanen8109]

Too bad it's not a glitch or a simple trick to use; it would sure have been called just that! Now, let's wait for the first GDQ to have this in a run!

[@tenkenroo]

I prefer splush

[@TheMadZocker]

@@tenkenroo Not "Splaboom"?

[@victoriachamberlin3461]

I was expecting a simple play through or smth, but instead I got a lovely zoom lecture on RNG, heatmaps, and SK. And a little bonus of a "whohohohoo" blessing

[@Senen33]

The editing is out of this world. I've taught math and computer science. Making something like this enjoyable and easy to understand is definitely a feat. Great work.

[@keyurjoshi458]

Most speedrunners: pray to RNGesus! Linkus et al.: BAYESIAN ANALYSIS

[@RenatoGrigoli]

That comment represents the victory of Science over Religion. Thank you for the words!

[@Rush2201]

@@RenatoGrigoli RNGesus isn't beaten so easily. Unless you've got one of these to tell me if my shot will hit or miss in XCOM.

[@manaquriazertyuio4555]

@@Rush2201 I can tell you that with 99% confidence.

[@luke1jones]

@@RenatoGrigoli And in strolls Auction.

[@red__guy]

@@RenatoGrigoli Only because the seed isn't timer based

[@Roman-fv4rv]

Thank god Linkus complained so much he basically saved 100% and many other catagories

[@Thunder-Sky]

Randomizers have been saved too

[@localSunMan]

@@Thunder-Sky New randomizer category: Random seed.

[@gamingtime9716]

Eventually, after you generate enough boards, you'll be able to determine which seed you started with

[@174Anime]

what about non tool assisted runs?

[@Roman-fv4rv]

@wes 174 Because of the fact that you have to manually enter the information, it’s not considered tool assisted. Linkus mentioned it in the video iirc Edit: It’s also in the pinned comment at the bottom

[@Wyattporter]

It’s so weird to me the number of different names this is known under in the Zelda community. The two wikis (Gamepedia and Wikia) refer to it as “Squid-Hunt” and “Sinking Ships” (respectively), and this video refers to it exclusively as “Sploosh-Kaboom.” Does Salvatore ever name the game out loud?

[@Majinhero]

I think it's because it's not in english

[@bubba200874426]

I'm still going to call it battlesquids regardless of what anyone else says.

[@Majinhero]

@@bubba200874426 I personaly call it "that fucking mini game"

[@Doctorzzim]

The minigame is nameless so fans have to name it themselves, but Squid-Hunt is from the prima guide. The other 2 were made up.

[@UndeadCollector]

@@Doctorzzim i think the name fits, because all ppl that did playing the minigame, have this "miss=splish" or "hit=kabiim" in there head of the guy. Making it sounds better and there we have "Sploosh-Kaboom". But yeah, it's Sinking/Battle Ship with Squids, so using double "oo" fits. (like in Splatoon)

[@Sagolel4797]

I think as a programmer this has to be my favourite speedrunning related video. Incredible what effort the community puts in to help beating a little minigame and the presentation here in the video was so cool i was literally so engrossed also thinking what would be the next step to solve this and what problems might arise!

[@Celcel512]

Worst? WORST? The sound effects are the best in the series!!!!!

[@aruwaurachi9649]

SPLUUUUUUSH

[@SifArtorias]

KA_BOOOOM!

[@mzxrules]

i know right, this isn't anywhere near as bad as Dampe's Heart-Pounding Graveyard Tour

[@Kumquat_Lord]

I mean, if you're a speedrunner it can (and will) often kill your run

[@Actiomedey]

Kumquat Lord I think they’re aware since they’re subbed to a speed running channel

[@nappingcoral]

The credit of the tool: "Linkus7 for complaining about sploosh enough to summon an army". lol

[@mrLegoLL]

Alright, I take it back. When I said to my mathematics teacher: 'When in our lives (provided none of us actually get a job with statistics) will we ever use this kind of stuff???', I never thought it would be at sploosh kaboom............

[@Martykun36]

statistics and probability are heavily used in literally any job related to programming, engineering or accounting

[@orangejuice3235]

When it comes to math, it’s mostly not a question of whether or not it’s useful, but how much you allow yourself to make use of it.

[@General12th]

All math is useful to some degree or another. But the key point is you *want* a job where you use lots of math, you *want* a job where you can make use of everything you learned in school, because it's more likely to pay well.

[@Pluveus]

If you work in any kind of retail, your sales and projections reports are literally just statistics. Statistics are the MOST commonly used math in everyday life.

[@tyrannicalthesaurus4672]

This is not the only time this has happened. Take for instance the any% paper mario the thousand year door tool assisted speedrun by malleo, where they used number theory, and geometric series in order to manipulate a 1/60000 chance.

[@DerSolinski]

Math teacher: Why you're so good at it? Nobody in class get's that... Student: I'm a speed runner. I had to, to win at battleship.

[@HardToBeAPoopGod]

I have close to zero understanding of speedrunning OR mathematics for that matter, and yet I a) watched with utter fascination and focal attention b) *understood the whole thing* Nothing but mad respect for y'all nerds ♥

[@helloolive295]

Seriously, I wish I would've learned math classes from them, I would've understood it so much easier!

[@UndeadFil]

"And remember kids, this is why probabilities are important."

[@samuelthecamel]

Math is truely everywhere

[@TaranVH]

How was this animated?? Surely not with after effects. This looks like the stuff I see from 3blue1brown...

[@Linkus7]

The animations were made from pure code using JavaScript. I started working on this video and manually making the animations, but I quickly realized it would take way too long, specially the parts where we rapidly update the odds etc, so Peter helped out by writing a script that could generate these amazing graphics.

[@Scaramouche122]

Hmm no easy ways eh.

[@MrRedstonefreedom]

Linkus7 which libraries did you use for the tweeting? Kind of looks like heavily modified D3

[@gabrielnicholas6698]

@@MrRedstonefreedom Seconded! Really interested to know what library Peter used.

[@peterschmidt-nielsen3577]

@@gabrielnicholas6698 I did all of the animations where the screen has that grey background with just d3. The code is up here: github.com/petersn/web-sploosh-kaboom/blob/animation/animation/animation.html

[@mistermista2927]

"Over ten years after release" I think "almost twenty years" would've been a bit more accurate, haha

[@mecisbuvelle4025]

but he said over 10 years so its ttt

[@yourbrother7835]

@@mecisbuvelle4025ttt?

[@mecisbuvelle4025]

@@yourbrother7835 technically the truth

[@josh2101]

Hes talking about wind waker HD

[@mistermista2927]

@@josh2101 WWHD wasn't released over ten years ago though, and he says that this applies to both versions of the game.

[@danieladams8847]

Link: "You've Splooshed your last Kabloom"

[@skipjackdoesstuff7110]

This is the “watch for rolling rocks” of the zelda series

[@crispydonut9553]

SkipJackDoes Stuff nah, i at least got to know what parallel universes are

[@ABurntMuffin]

not even close watch for rolling rocks was an intense setup created by a human being. this was mathed out into a program that can make heatmaps on the fly. It's a fucking TaS and it's sad that it's allowed in speedrunning.

[@creepystalker3966]

I mean it's like using a calculator in a speedrun, it literally just removes rng and that's about it

[@GeorgeD_]

@@ABurntMuffin As long as it isn't grabbing data straight from the game or changing inputs, it should be allowed. Speedrunners often stream their runs and chat can tell them useful tips or things they may have missed, which could be unfair to solo runners. Lots of runners keep important data on other monitors or on post it notes, which could be unfair to runners who don't do that. This tool is just the logical conclusion of allowing all of those things, and it's probably the endpoint for that logic.

[@ABurntMuffin]

@@GeorgeD_ you're comparing a 'useful tip' to 'hey I can determine exactly what board you have out of millions of possibilities?' That sounds rather silly.

[@ianjohnson7583]

There was a young strimmer called Linkus, Whose chat had a bit of a thinkus, As Splooshing is cruel, They invented a tool, Now those squids no longer will sink us! Credit to GinkgoGian for the limerick :)

[@vitemallight8818]

Squid is squish

[@WoodymC]

Hilarious & genius! :D

[@ianjohnson7583]

@@WoodymC Why thank you

[@DeathBringerBecky]

streamer*

[@MisterAppleEsq]

Perfect.

[@ZeldaUniverseTV]

This is awesome!! Very informative and it's making me want to retry the mini game again for myself.

[@joelcomer]

Lol yeah totally

[@calemr]

RE: using this device: I see it as similar to a having a clock in your room to get timings right, and a Google document or something with useful info available. Only way more advanced. So long as it's not connected to the game code itself (Which this isn't), I'd say it's legal.

[@LittleVolii]

i agree with you & i also think removing the headache of sploosh kaboom will invite more runners to categories previously fucked by it. more competition means more innovation. this tool is a grey area but it does way more good than harm.

[@krisalis_]

Yeah, I was kinda comparing it to a calculator, it is a "tool" but since it doesn't access anything from the game it makes sense that it's allowed

[@SupLuiKir]

Yeah, it's just spreadsheet calcs, but with a dedicated UI for an improved user experience.

[@taylernrock]

I think one signifcant consideration though is that different games have different amounts of rng. I could imagine games like Pokemon being rng heavy being blown open by programs like this

[@SupLuiKir]

@@taylernrock IIRC the 3rd gen pokemon games do a moderate amount of RNG Abuse to get good IVs and such. Pokemon is actually one of the easier game series to do this with since you always have the advantage of save and resets, and that the RNG calls are constant, except for things like spinning trainers on screen, etc. No need for this kind of statistical analysis. In 4th gen, you can even confirm your seed at any time through flipping the coin app 10 times.

[@KronoLight]

Linkus: "The beautiful people at the NSA..." Me: "Nice... Hol up"

[@r.pizzamonkey7379]

Well they did make a pretty sweet open-source de-compilation tool. As with just about anything they have good and bad aspects to them.

[@hairtox7498]

Damn, this, the barrier skip, wind waker history really have some big plot twist

[@titansjojo1445]

You should look at Skyward Sword history too.

[@catlew004]

Skyward Sword: when the hero time traveled without the master sword

[@plagueducks]

nintendo: lets add a tricky minigame that'll take lots of attempts! linkus and the speedrunning community: foolish mortal, you think you can stop us

[@ArgentumEmperio]

I mean... You be fair, it took folks quite a few years before figuring it out so... XD

[@want-diversecontent3887]

ArgentumEmperio It took quite a few years to discover the barrier skip HD.

[@incutainment5284]

Nice! This is absolutely insane, I think my mind melted a little while listening.

[@gabrielallen6827]

I think its Jank and all the glitches make WW the most jank speedrun in all of speedrunning.

[@HalrondoFilms]

I'm noticing the video's audio is a bit low. Besides that, I'm really happy getting to see how this minigame is broken!

[@jaredparks4713]

Ikr, I feel like I'm going deaf.

[@ximertracks-subtome9907]

turn up your volume then

[@mavi4697]

There's a limit on how high one can realistically set audio without losing quality. This is way below that level. I have my speakers set so that 50% volume on my desktop is about right for most things, and I adjust up/down in the OS as needed. Even after cranking my volume to 100%, Linkus is a bit to the low side of what I'd consider comfortable volume and the dev is still very quiet. If I had any significant background noise I'd miss out on whatever they said. That's not an issue of other people having their levels too high, that's Linkus not mixing his audio properly.

[@Demonstray]

His audio may not be low in terms of "decibels full-scale/dbfs" aka raw decibels below the 0dB threshold of distortion, but the important audio measurement is decibels RMS; the AVERAGE loudness. Yes, it is very easy to achieve a standard loudness level without clipping above 0dB. Use compression to reduce the levels of the loudest portions, while keeping anything quieter at the same volume. That will give you headroom to push the master volume up ("make-up gain") closer to 0dB again, increasing the relative loudness of the entirety of your audio. I had almost forgotten that being an audio engineer isn't entirely useless. 😎

[@r6scrubs126]

@@ximertracks-subtome9907 I had to turn my volume up to about 5 times louder than it normally is, then I got a notification from something else on my PC and it was LOUD AF! Just saying "turn up your volume" isn't the answer. Every other video I watch on youtube doesn't have this problem, so not really any reason why I should have to do it for this one

[@Nightstick24]

That was actually super interesting. Amazing job breaking down the RNG generation and the tool by the two guests, they both kept it incredibly easy to understand even though it's a mindblowlingly complex topic.

[@sherman8r726]

See now if they taught math like this in school, I would be interested! This is something fun I watch in my free time, great video!

[@Dimbo4466]

This was genuinely one of the most interesting videos I've watched in awhile. The intertwining of speed running computer science and statistics is so elegant in this solution.

[@kaldogorath]

Have you ever watched the Super Mario 64 parallel universes video?

[@robertsides3626]

I still hear "sploosh" in the deepest recesses of my nightmares all these years later....

[@Zykked]

kaBOOOOM

[@canadiangopnik7007]

*S P L O O S H*

[@greatyng442]

When you said the RNG seed was constant over all game starts I got very excited, because I immediately realised that would be incredibly helpful in determining the current RNG state when playing the battleship minigame. It's really cool to see people have actually reverse engineered this stuff to the point it can be used in speedruns.

[@mewkoamew6940]

This is one of the reasons why i love speedrunning and the speed running. Delicious histories of progression and getting better. Stories of working together to break obstacles to go faster. I love this.

[@aidenpons9584]

This is ridiculously impressive. Amazing work to the so many discoveries of so many people along the way - you really brought out that this was a community effort. Also, as a nerd myself, I love it when silly math turns up in silly places XD

[@VioletEnds]

Linkus over here giving a shoutout to the NSA 🤣

[@hankhill7827]

Thank you NSA, very cool!

[@Monuver]

Why did he give them a shoutout? After all, they already know how he feels. Seems a bit redundant.

[@garnet1918]

I know this comment is a joke, but the NSA made an internal tool called GHIDRA to reverse engineer (take apart and analyze the code of) programs across many different platforms. Last year, they released the source code to the public, enabling everyone to take advantage of its features for free, rivaling the dominant tool in the field IDA Pro, which is insanely expensive. It's pretty cool!

[@VioletEnds]

@@garnet1918 Yeah, I know, I remember hearing about that back when it happened. Not exactly my area of expertise in software engineering, but close enough that I took notice.

[@garnet1918]

@@VioletEnds Cool :D

[@CrispyBaconYT555]

I watch speedruns when I’m trying to avoid doing my college algebra.

[@michael_betts]

Well be glad this is statistics.

[@CrispyBaconYT555]

Michael Betts Uh-oh. I need to check my grades.

[@frankcommatobe8009]

Me too 😑😂

[@AmaroqStarwind]

I watch speedruns *to learn* College Algebra~ (and Calculus)

[@orsonzedd]

I kind of feel bad for telling my algebra teacher I was never going to need it

[@sdgdhpmbp]

I'm gonna avoid weighing in on legality of this tool and say this: IMHO this minigame is still pretty bad. Luck minigames have existed and will continue to exist. However, this one causes headaches even for playing WW casually. Killing runs? How about all the players turned off by this battleship simulator, let alone those who find out it has unique rewards locked behind it? I remember a chest minigame in ALTTP that had lots of randomness but 1 unique. That wasn't exactly the best designed minigame out there but this makes it looks positively brilliant design. And I mean that literally! It's 100 rupees to play, you pick 3 chests out of I think 15-20, each chest contains 1,20,100,300 rupees and 1 heart piece. Not only is there some ROI even when you fail to get the best prizes, not only is there visible variety in prizes, not only is it likely enough to get your target prize; but there's no all-or-nothing aspect to a fucking random minigame! So if this tool kills the purity of speedrunning or something, cry me a fucking river. All seeing Linkus failing at sploosh-kaboom did was revive memories of my frustrations.

[@TheArbiter17]

There's one game where you pay 20 rupees where you pick one of three chests, each holding either 1, 20, or 50 rupees. Your wager is more likely to return to your pocket than it is to be lost! And even then, you get something even if you lose.

[@yonatanbeer3475]

@@TheArbiter17 assuming the minigame really is fair, you could get infinite money from it.

[@julienbrightside8635]

IN Ocarina of Time there was a minigame involving opening chests. First time I played it I ended up bruteforcing my way through by recognizing a pattern. (You're supposed to use lens of truth.)

[@bubba200874426]

The one with the heart is only 30 rupees, but there are also bombs and arrows in the pool. It's still profitable in the long run unless you get exceptionally unlucky. The thieves in Hyrule aren't very good at being thieves, I guess.

[@IAmNotASandwich453]

Come on, this minigame isnt THAT bad. Youre over exaggerating a tiny bit

[@rajivkrishnakumar2451]

Amazing video! The actual great quality work behind making the tool, the background of why it's important in the game, all the steps to how it works (including the fantastic visuals) and the explanations of why it is allowed in speedruns. All around one of the best technical videos I've ever seen. Bravo and thank you so much for this!!

[@jacobjude6319]

Me: “watching this” Also me: “doesn’t understand any of this”

[@sethcoleman8423]

This was super cool because I learned about some of these concept in my stats class recently. I don't know enough about wind waker speedruns to suggest a topic but another video like this would be super cool.

[@GSPV33]

This is an incredible and beautiful tool. I love this highly-technical application of computer science in speedrunning - it doesn't alter the game itself, and it was created with a lot of effort and genius. It's like a speedrunning method of the future.

[@TheNets]

That was one of the most amazing speedrun discovery video that I ever see! :D Amazing job. Congratulations to everyone! I loved the technical information.

[@davidjackman3750]

This is nerdy on a whole new level. I love it. Great job to all who had a hand in putting this into action!!

[@Argennon]

The animations in this are incredibly good, huge props to Peter for making the infographics to illustrate his point and making it so much easier to understand

[@ChaoProfessor]

"But first, before we get into..." *prepares to nuke sponsorship* "...let me breakdown what Sploosh Kaboom is" you're off the hook this time.

[@goldenirie]

Shadow leg.... Oh sploosh kaboom phew

[@Matio25091]

My finger was so close to smashing the right arrow key

[@EdddSaid]

Yeah fuck content creators for trying to earn money for food and rent. They should be starving and homeless.

[@Matio25091]

@@EdddSaid woah calm down there buddy. No one said that but you. _We're_ making jokes. Don't know who pissed in your cheerios.

[@ChaoProfessor]

@@EdddSaid you sound real fun. life of the party right here

[@PanzerTF]

Those visual explanations of the RNG are so well made.

[@Webberjo]

Back when this game was first released I was having trouble finding my last heart piece, so I went on my family's computer and found a site called NeoSeeker. It was on there that I read that you could get a heart piece by beating this battleship minigame without missing a single shot. So, not being familiar with internet trolls at the time, I took this as fact and started grinding. I played for several hours straight, and in that time I learned that the location of squids was not truly random. I used that information to memorize the possible board layouts and fish for hits in the places the squids were most likely to be, then zero in on the remaining placements. Eventually I had finally gotten lucky enough and managed to beat the minigame without missing a single shot. I was ecstatic, all my hard work was about to pay off, and then my glee slowly faded into confusion when I was rewarded a single purple rupee. I was 13 at the time.

[@lobster9059]

thats rough buddy

[@TheDanielradio]

The animation for this video is so fucking good!!! Good job Peter! I'm getting chills, people have dug so deep into so many games, it's so fascinating! :D

[@yesno4628]

"you may be thinking, 'well, you could reset the game to get the rng state to 100/100/100 and then do a frame perfect setup to get the desired board', but it's actually much more precise than that" I love speedrunners

[@helloitismetomato]

23:00 when you realize prng manipulation is the closest thing to actual magic in this universe. Really nice work and great explanation. I used to mod a Pokémon rng abuse forum and it's definitely hard to explain how it works, but this seems like it's a perfect explanation for anyone no matter how much technical know-how they have.

[@Accrovideogames]

Now solve the Heart-Pounding Gravedigging Tour, the _actual_ worst mini-game in the speedrunning community.

[@Xaragon64DS]

ZFG has already solved this. He rolls dice each time you dig and will eventually exhaust his pool of prizes. If you have bad luck, just keep going and the heart piece will be inevitable; even if he has already looped around the graveyard, you never lose your chance at it.

[@hoodedman6579]

@@Xaragon64DS That's absurdly slow, so it's never used in speedruns. They just guess and hope because it's so much faster to do that.

[@Kaiwala]

@@Xaragon64DS Yeah no that's not good enough

[@Unforsin]

Does OOT actually have any RNG manipulation strats like this? (Not 100% familiar on how stuff like GIM and SRM actually work)

[@GhoullyXX]

I'd like to see a speedrunner complete the Endless mode on the Cucco dodging minigame in Link Between Worlds. True 100%.

[@Dirakiaa]

Now all that is left, is to solve the Mystery of "How do i turn the Volume past 100% to hear anything without earplugs?"

[@olynodren]

I was searching for a refresher on the best shots to take in sploosh kaboom, I didn't realise the minigame had been cracked wide open. Incredible work to everyone who figured it out and made this happen. Speedrunning strats never cease to amaze me.

[@nivyan]

"Why teach me math? I'll never ever use it in real life"

[@Vim_Tim]

They even wrote the core math in Rust and shipped it to the browser as WebAssembly... truly awesome work.

[@pfeilspitze]

Oh cool! Rust is a great language, and this kind of compute-heavy low-interaction stuff is a great use of WASM.

[@peterschmidt-nielsen3577]

Yes! I originally wrote the probability calculations as a backend service in C++, but then CryZe (the livesplit developer) rewrote it in Rust and included it into the web page via wasm-pack, which was super cool!

[@BlueKhaotix]

Could this knowledge of how Wind Waker's RNG works be used to manipulate other RNG dependent things in the run? Like auction or helmaroc

[@maistho]

Probably not, since the reason this works is because it has a range of values that it can narrow down on. I assume the same thing would not be possible for auction since that is a single value, with no way to figure it out once it's been set.

[@JusDoc]

@@maistho On top of that, how would you manipulate the auction? wait a specific number of frames that have unpredictable numbers of RNG calls before starting the next auction? The play is still just "start the next auction ASAP" if I understand how this all works correctly.

[@BoatsAndJoes]

Not really, but maybe a little. For sploosh kaboom you only have to know what rng value you got; for helmrok and auction house you want to manipulate the rng value to get a specific one. A runner could power cycle the console and try to get to the auction house at a specific point early in the RNG cycle, but there will be some variance. If there's a quirk in the sequence where some range early on has a greater chance of getting the swift sail, it could help. Probably no such quirk exists, but it's worth a look. Power cycling before helmrok wouldn't be practical.

[@SilverwindVtuber]

I kinda doubt that. As mentioned in the video, there's about 604,000 unique boards that can be generated. The exact board is based on the current RNG value, but since there's so many possibilities, there's a fair bit of time between repetitions, making it way easier to narrow down and control. Plus the tool has the benefit of multiple board inputs to make it more accurate as it goes. Meanwhile, other instances of RNG (at least as far as I can tell) have significantly fewer possible outcomes with even less player control over when the RNG decision triggers. I could see a TAS run being able to manipulate it to a degree if we can figure out exactly when each decision is made, but I don't think that it's viable for humans outside of this minigame.

[@BlueKhaotix]

Aww :/ yeah that makes sense

[@BlooBlenBlop]

Can't wait for terminal montage to show us toon link the ultimate gambler

[@5MadMovieMakers]

Subtitles changing "RNG" to "orangy" 😂

[@keenanthornley7680]

Everyone on that list of contributors, amazing work. And "amazing" is an understatement, I don't think I could ever have figured out any of this in a reasonable time (honestly, at all). Some incredibly intelligent people with extreme patience & dedication, and the kindness to develop something with the intention to help all speedrunners out there. Definitely the most interesting and engaging "how it works" speedrun strategy breakdown I have seen. I have been watching speedruns for a long time now and my mentality of "why don't these people just play the game normally? where is the fun in just hauling ass to the end just for a stopwatch?" was very quickly replaced with "These people play the game MUCH more than 'normally'. Not only do these people explore EVERY single crevice & seam with extreme dedication, but even explore games' structure down to the byte". I used to think "what the hell, why are they doing that, don't they know they're skipping content and will never know what they're leaving behind?" but those thoughts have been replaced with "Oh, they KNOW that stuff is there. That sword I love that I found? They DO know that is there. They have played this game hundreds to thousands of times more than me, they know this game's map 1000x better than I do, to a level I never thought possible". It is fascinating to watch these people figure out these games with such precision and dedication.

[@JohnMembraneIrken]

This is amazing. I can't imagine how many runs I've seen lost to this minigame, it's so great to see that there's finally away for runners to mitigate RNG losses. What can't speedrunners accomplish?

[@prizm9515]

When being frame perfect just isn't precise enough. Lol. Love the content!

[@joshuasmith6909]

Now see, THIS is what would keep my attention in Statistics class.

[@Giftig--Daniel-P]

THIS IS SOOOO COOL I just spent literally an hour losing every single battle ship game--like seriously 45 games (I am TERRIBLE at battleship). Then I went and used the webapp version. After 15 tries, during which I only lost ONE GAME, I beat the high score and won in 14 shots! YOU GUYS ARE SO AWESOME!

[@NumdegasedUHC]

Right at the 14:20 mark when you paused the video, so did I and I was in awe at the cleverness of it. I could tell where you were going with it, and wow. Hats off for making this happen!

[@MrYudas]

absolutely amazing breakdown. wish some of my university courses where this good explained!

[@l.j.hopper2727]

facts

[@ineedaname1341]

May I ask what you did at Uni? I'm curious

[@MrYudas]

@@ineedaname1341 well a lot of statistics and Things like normal Distributions

[@atomcinimod2016]

This is next level speedruning, imagine a few decades from now when there are tons of tools to predict RNG like this.

[@IammeoramI]

For old games assuming anyone would still play them, yeah for sure since they're always using the same algorithms and number sets, for far future games probably not. I imagine that with the internet of things that RNG would probably rely on outside sources (like a server) or sophisticated console hardware tools (like a noise generator).

[@General12th]

@@IammeoramI I wonder if avalanche diodes have gotten cheaper and more reliable in the past few decades, and if they'll continue to improve in the future. If so, there may come a point when every console uses true RNG.

[@rhiannonmackenzie8368]

I absolutely love zelda speedrunners, the fact you guys have broken this is absolutely insane😂

[@notexactlyrandom1070]

I don't even speedrun, but seeing the lengths people go to breakdown the way the games work internally and exploit them is something I love to see.

[@CaiHy-Bri]

I was never into the Wind Waker speedruns but I always remember hearing about this being the scourge of Wind Waker speedruns. It makes me really happy that somehow the community managed to beat an RNG component. Well done to everyone who worked on it.

[@harrylane4]

"the worst minigame" dampe would like a word

[@johngoldberg641]

“...in wind waker”

[@maeveelizabeth9739]

Me, having failed every single math class I've ever taken: fascinating...

[@johngreen3996]

I love these breakdowns!!! This is all really interesting to me. This speed running community is awesome!!

[@ashb2483]

This is truly impressive. I have no idea how all these graphics and transitions were made, and it seems like a ton of work just to make this video. Love it. Great job, guys.

[@peterschmidt-nielsen3577]

I created the animations 100% in Javascript using d3. The code is here: github.com/petersn/web-sploosh-kaboom/blob/animation/animation/animation.html

[@RickRaptor105]

I love that "Sploosh Kaboom" is the universal term for this Battleship minigame

[@matthugenberg8869]

I saw this video and went "OH MY GOD THEY FINALLY DID IT!!"

[@boellilol9551]

I very rarely comment on youtube. I also don't watch any speedruns of wind waker any more despit being a huge Zelda speedruns fan. But that minigame killing millions of runs just cut the joy for me. I hate rng. Knowing, my favourite speedrunner can do nothing against the rip is devastating. Like Double Lapis in the Carry Armor fight in Final Fantasy VII or not getting Irvine in the starting trio against Ultimecia in FF8 (when you are already 8 hours in). This tool will make me watch speedruns of wind waker again. Also this is by far not the first tool, that helped making a speedrun consistent. In Final Fantasy VIII there is a tool that gets you the right key numbers which are also "random" generated. You have to count masts, put in the numbers in a program and the program will get you the right key code that you need to get into General Caraways mansion. To get the number, its normally needed to go to a specific location and just look it up. Rng is purely what the number is. Still that tool, for the sake of cutting time is still used in FF8 speedruns. This tool helping out the wind waker speedrunners is extremely helpful. I appreciate all you guys work. I am amazed how deep into the rabbit hole one can stumble on his way to get around an unpopular hurdle. In my opinion, this tool goes toe to toe with the great barrier skip. Well played you all!

[@1un4cy]

The overall audio is incredibly low. One would say to just turn my volume up, but if I do something else without lowering it I'll get my ears blasted.

[@revenevan11]

Oh my god thank you for acknowledging this! I got ads twice during this video and my eardrums were absolutely blasted and I had to scramble to turn my volume back down to a reasonable level 😭

[@Aeroczema]

This was SUCH a cool video, everything was explained so clearly and it was really neat to see folks figure out solutions to these kinds of problems. Awesome work to everyone involved!

[@itsaguy6728]

I don't understand why this was in my recommended, but it was very entertaining. Good job bro!

[@bodbyss]

8:10 Hold up, there's RNG built into the lighting of objects? Are we serious or was that just a random hypothetical thrown in the explanation? You can theoretically develop this kind of tool for many different RNG issues for many different games as long as you take the time to build one and understand the RNG calls. Speedrunners don't rely on tools for other 'pure' speedruns of other games, so it seems like the community only favors this one purely out of wanting to avoid RNG frustration.

[@LordOfSilense]

Most lighting systems use RNG because it's much cheaper to calculate "about" what the light should be than what it "actually" should be. Quake's graphics were famous because of the "Fast inverse square root" formula, for example, which gives a "good enough" answer for lighting

[@BrightNightmares]

@@chyza2012 What i actually think is happening, is that every object that is on screen will call a "UpdateRandom()" function every frame, but only some objects actually use the number. This is probably done as a way to try and create something closer to "True randomness", so that the game can use the same seed, and the rng is harder to manipulate.

[@IronicHavoc]

It is very difficult to build these kinds of tools for most RNG games. The fact that Nintendo used a fixed seed on boot and the RNG follows a consistent sequence for each run was a big help. If other games also did this, these sorts of tools would maybe be more common. But as mentioned in the video, it's standard practice to use system time or something as the seed, not a fixed value.

[@IronicHavoc]

As for the tool being "pure" - generally as long as the tool only provides info and isn't a means of actual execution, it's not an issue. Again, tools like this are rare mostly because games usually don't use fixed seeds and/or can allow for more direct RNG manipulation.

[@seemoore9175]

good video, but the sound effects alone turn the worst minigame into the best.

[@snbeast9545]

Linkus shouting out the NSA was unexpectedly wholesome

[@nothing4mepls973]

Beautiful editing, wonderfully complete yet easy to understand explanation. I want to see more now.

[@alexnime3303]

Me: Once I get out of school and become a speedrunner, I'll never have to do complicated math ever again! Videogames: "that's where your wrong kiddo"