How were the Old Republic Soldiers able to Take on SITH in 1v1's?

[@Emberheart_]

The same as how clones defeated Jedi: with surprise tactics, superior numbers and very big guns.

[@geetslys]

One could argue that a lightsaber is the *biggest* gun...

[@hristodimitrov1178]

@@geetslys An elegant weapon for a more civilized time, eh? Well guess what? Times have changed.

[@danzansandeev6033]

@@geetslys not according to hk-47. “aside from grenades, mines, rocket launchers and orbital bombardments”)

[@ryanthompson2723]

@@geetslys Guns are just big ballistic lightsabers.

[@matthews5shade925]

@@geetslys but could it block everything? Cut most things sure but it probably doesn’t come close to blaster deaths I bet

[@Ganonsmork]

That soldier that took on Malgus and survived that bomb was a absolute savage.

[@topdog5252]

Ye he was the real deal

[@NP3GA]

Is that the guy that had fan with Satele Shan?

[@Ganonsmork]

@@NP3GA I'm pretty sure.

[@PigeonArmy03]

I think his name was malcom or something

[@valkeery1216]

@@NP3GA yes he was and he fathered an offspring with her as well

[@kanekikingstorm2113]

Jace malgus trucked the shit out of two sith as he tried to stab Malgus. That man had no fucks to give

[@paolopesare3566]

He also banged the Grand Master of the Jedi order, he's definitly the alpha male of the old republic

[@obkworld1]

He was actually using the knife to divert the electricity away from him if you watch closely the knife is taking the brunt of the lightning.

[@kanekikingstorm2113]

@@obkworld1 Malgus had to make a effort to up the ferocity of his lightning to get Jace off him. That man earned his rank

[@mar71n32n0v1lLL0]

@@paolopesare3566 Not only banged, but also knocked her up... alpha and omega, none greater before or after...

[@jesusmurphychrist7580]

Malcom pulled what some would call a pro gamer move

[@ShadowQuickpaw]

I would argue that Republic Military Troopers, and Havoc Squad specifically, had a far harsher training and experience gauntlet than the Clones of the GAR. I mean no offense to the clones, but the stakes of the Great Wars era were far higher, and the number of Sith far greater. Your average soldier in the Clone Wars were far less likely to encounter Savage, Maul, Tyranous, Ventress, or even Grievous, whereas Great War Republic troopers knew and were specifically trained to go up against full-blooded Sith on the regular. Remember, the Clones were born to fight a proxy war against an enemy they'd struggle with, and trained to Sidious's specifications to be effective against the Seperatists' droid army, to cut down unsuspecting Jedi, and little else.

[@711Tevin]

I agree, this really has nothing to do with which sith were stronger. Havoc Squad can basically be equated to Null or Alpha ARC troopers in the GAR, and they're the only ones to canonically kill sith on a regular basis. As far as I know there isn't any instances in TOR MMO of sith being killed by other squads.

[@devilsgame7335]

Its the Jedi's ignorants leading to their dimize they never over look things and always trusting the full pledged Jedi not the grey

[@ladywaffle2210]

@@711Tevin There are other events, they're just about what you'd expect. It's not "Oh, B Squad took down six Sith Warriors!" It's "A Squad, B Squad, and C Squad pinned down six Sith Warriors with a massive volume of fire, and D Squad threw enough explosives at them to obliterate a small village before shooting the corpses in the head to ensure they didn't get back up."

[@711Tevin]

@@ladywaffle2210 True, but I meant more how we see in the cinematic trailer and the MMO that the Havoc squad leaders can 1v1 Sith with actual feats like Malcom holding off Malgus with sheer physical might which is insane since we know what Malgus is capable of.

[@gmailquinn]

Clone akso had life fire exercises

[@gamebrainjagras4193]

Let’s put it this way, “If they weren’t good enough to survive Sith, they died.”

[@mine7172]

Such a deep quote.

[@thalmoragent9344]

True. I'm sure the 501st could handle them

[@gamebrainjagras4193]

@@thalmoragent9344 that’s not at all the same. Malcolm went 1v1 and did some work. The 501st outnumbered the Jedi to a 10 to 1 level and that was very much an unfair comparison.

[@dragonlord498]

@@gamebrainjagras4193 ya clones are a tad overrated much like many things during the clone wars era the top jedi like mace, yoda etc and things like the clones mainly seemed so super because of how low most other things during the time were for example the clones were one of the only true military forces of the time period most other planets and such only had police forces like naboo had for their security and how most jedi hadn't really touched their lightsabers past basic training so those that had tended to seem that much better.

[@gamebrainjagras4193]

@@dragonlord498 they aren’t clones buddy

[@commandercody2224]

as any han solo player in bf2 would know, the way to defeat a sith with a blaster is to roll all the time

[@tanith117]

Grenades, mines, and detpacks, Also tons of space behind you to back pedal.

[@Mr_Kiwi]

Han Solo players give me aneurysms whenever I try kill them

[@NODnuke45]

Ah, of course, nothing is better than the best tactic of all, COMBAT ROLL! COMBAT ROLL! COMBAT ROLL! ad infinitum

[@mousermind]

That only works if the Sith is an idiot.

[@tchoythao1730]

Han is from Dark souls disguised.

[@EdaugEthanbYT]

The answer to that is easy. To quote that one guy, “Good thing those Sith can’t aim.”

[@thefrenchkiwi9435]

*Monsters Inc theme starts playing*

[@Only1199]

immediately gets force choked.

[@olafgurke4699]

Immediately gets impaled by a thrown lightsaber.

[@sbsbz5509]

gets fucking yeeted out of laat

[@johnfulcher8448]

My headcanon was always that it is due to Grandmaster Satele Shans battle meditation

[@TetsuShima]

Jace Malcolm: *Beats up mighty Sith Lord Darth Malgus* Revan: "You have earned my permission to bang my descendant" Jace Malcolm: "Thanks, Dad"

[@thalmoragent9344]

Wait, I'm confused, Revan is this guy's dad?

[@cipherxi8513]

@@thalmoragent9344 No he is not.

[@andersbuchjeppesen5493]

@@thalmoragent9344 no. Satele Shan is a descendant of Revan

[@TetsuShima]

@@thalmoragent9344 "Dad" is a loving way of referring to your father-in-law

[@fattiger6957]

Not exactly beat up Malgus. Satele had to save Malcolm. If you watched that video, you'd see that Malgus and his Sith were about to execute all the troopers.

[@hunterkiller1440]

Reason why Prequels Legends are much better than Post ROTJ Legends.

[@jordanhendrix2619]

To be fair, there’s also just a whole heck of a lot more fresh opportunities to be written before the movies, as opposed to after the movies. After the movies you have to deal with established characters and genealogies, but prior to that is a good 25,000 years to be explored and filled with new (old) stuff. The farthest into the post movies we’ve seen is 45ABY for books, and like 105ABY is the farthest I think anything has gone. Edit: 140ABY, not 105ABY.

[@LTMaverick27894]

@@jordanhendrix2619 I think it was more like 140 ABY for the comics.

[@forthencholordofadmirals2763]

@@jordanhendrix2619 41 ABY in books and 140 ABY in comics

[@forthencholordofadmirals2763]

That's an arguable IMO I love post ROTJ lore but revan, satellite, malgus bane etc were fantastic

[@jordanhendrix2619]

@@forthencholordofadmirals2763 Crucible takes place in 45ABY (I have a legends book in my hand and am looking at the timeline). Then the Fate of the Jedi books and the final X-Wing book take place at least 43ABY. But thank you for the correction, nonetheless!

[@EdwardVelez]

“Warriors are animals. Agents like Darth Maul have their uses, but can never expand beyond their limited set of tasks.” - Darth Sidious Sith Warrior, Emperor’s Wrath and Outlander: “And I took that personally.”

[@quintinjansevanvuuren9638]

Vader would probably be a Sith Juggernaut. And Sidious got yeeted down a pipe by him, he should have chiggidy checked himself.

[@PrinceoftheDeadd]

The Sith Warrior was an absolute unit.

[@akatsukii-_-]

Sith jugg I walk into a room 4 seconds later I walk oit not scratch

[@VampyreDante]

@@quintinjansevanvuuren9638 IIRC Juggernaut subclass used Vader as inspiration, so he certainly should be.

[@dontcare7086]

You seem to forget sidious followed the rule of 2 because thousands of sith were weak. It os easier for a sith to reach their peak faster but they are limited by that speed. Jedi take longer but gain vastly greater amounts of knowledge in the force and are far superior to almost all sith. Sith lords presented the only real challenge.

[@piercepayumo4212]

Jace: "We must fight... to victory or death... For The Republic!"

[@geetslys]

FOR THE REPUBLIC!

[@anastpro1558]

FOR THE REPUBLIC!

[@commandercody2980]

FOR THE REPUBLIC!

[@AndrewAce.]

VIVA LA RÉPUBLIQUE!

[@251spartan]

POR LA REPUBLICA! / FOR THE REPUBLIC!

[@dagdamor1]

I think the nationalism and relative altruism of Vitiate’s Sith would have disgusted most Sith Lords but pleased Sidious greatly. He would never have considered them true Sith, but their loyalty to a government over themselves would have appealed deeply to Palpatine’s narcissism.

[@spadesandshades-pc9tx]

That's very good way of looking at it

[@asdfasdf3989]

Nationalism is loyalty and self-determination for a nation, not a government.

[@ianharrison5758]

@@asdfasdf3989 I mean the republic, empire and old republic were all considered a unified, single body. The individual worlds would be less like countries on earth and more like states in America, separate to a degree but still unified under 1 authority and one over arching identity. Someone in the Sw universe could be deeply nationalistic for the republic, their sector, and their planet all at once. It’s the same as when people use their country, state/province/area, and their town/city

[@fattiger6957]

I think there were plenty of Sith who would have killed Vitiate and seized his throne if they thought it was possible. I think the reason why they didn't is because the Emperor was so powerful that those Sith didn't even want to risk it. The Sith of that period were just as ambitious, greedy and selfish as any other time. I think it was only their fear of the Emperor that kept them from going into a massive civil war.

[@ianharrison5758]

@@fattiger6957 true, and let’s not forget that fear is often mistaken for loyalty, so how much the sith of that era were LOYAL to him was probably less than those who just feared his power and stayed in line

[@bigdaddyperry1993]

One thing to consider is that the republic troopers knew that they were going to fight against sith. So they could have been trained in ways to help them fight. As far as the clone troopers, they were not trained to fight against the sith or even knew that they were going to fight against them. So that's why the clones couldn't handle fighting the sith.

[@Super-Godzilla99]

the most perfect answer because it is true. the way in witch soldiers are trained determind how good they are against an enemy. in the old republic the soldiers where trained too fight sith, the clones where trained too fight against droids, the stormtroopers where trained too fight human like aliens, thats the important difference between these 3 armies. so if the enemy is the opposite then they all killed easily. it´s like the same in the real world here soldiers where trained too fight humans.

[@tomaskops7119]

And same the oposite side. These siths warior are more trained to fight than regular army. Its the same weakness as Jedi have during clone wars. Most of them learn to duel agains lightsaber not to deflect fire

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Considering the clones were secretly under the control of the sith and considering the sith had faded into myth and legends before the clone wars they were never trained to fight sith. So it makes sense why they never rivaled sith they were never meant to.

[@tzaphkielconficturus7136]

Yes, they actually had training for it, and equipment better suited for it, but also the average sith of the time was nothing like the sith in the movies. Palpatine, Count Duku, and Darth Vader were all leaps and bounds ahead of the vast, vast majority of even the most powerful sith lords of the time. Even Darth Maul, though perhaps undertrained in many other respects, was far better at lightsaber combat than most old empire sith lords. It's a closer comparison to the average jedi of the clone wars, and we've seen them fall to droids, even while many of them would have specialized training in blaster deflection, as opposed to lightsaber combat, which wouldn't have been the case for many sith. So, yes, they often fought often underprepared, often arrogant enemies with specialized training and equipment.

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

@Adam Khan if i recall correctly only a few jedi escaped the temple that night.

[@AaronDarkus]

We also take in mind the context of those conflicts. During the Clone Wars, it was way more probable to combat against battle droids than against dark acolytes. The overall training of the GAR (Grand Army Of The Republic) was more focused on battling those mechanical treats, leaving the force users more in the background. Instead, during the Great Galactic War, the Galactic War and those conflicts that followed the average Republic Trooper had not only to face battle droids such as the Sith War Droid MK (the one that looks like the grandpa of the Droidekas) but also conventional Sith Troopers and Sith Warriors, Inquisitors and Assassins. Compared to the Clone Wars, they had more problems to deal with. But a warning must be given. Those Republic Troopers that appear in the cinematics of Return and Hope are ELITE REPUBLIC TROOPERS that belonged to the Havoc Squad (commanded by Jace Malcom, the man who stood pretty well against Darth Malgus), BUT YOUR AVERAGE REPUBLIC TROOPER (who looked more like the one in the minute 6:50) was NOT THAT ELITE. Their skills were comparable more or less to the average Clone Trooper, but they weren´t as extremely skilled as the elite ones (the ones that had a more complex armor and appear in the cinematics).

[@onotinikow]

My son once asked me and my wife who the strongest character was in Star Wars. I played that cinematic for my son and pointed out the soldier charging the Sith. I said "That guy. He just just charged a literal space wizard, with a lightsaber, shooting lightning, while armed with nothing but a pointy bit of metal. That guy."

[@optimustattoo2940]

100%

[@fabiocosta3830]

Jace Malcom (said trooper) is an absolute unit.

[@CT-Clone]

Considering how much more common sith were back in the day, it does makes sense that they could take them on. Plus there were also the fact that some weren't that experienced either. But imagine if clones had gotten that type of training too. Order 66 would have been even more brutal if clones also engaged jedi in melee, well besides those specifically trained to do so of course.

[@CorvusCorone68]

2 problems with that, Jedi might've noticed that specific training, and SIdious didn't want them being able to defeat him as well

[@tchoythao1730]

That and it’s still a losing battle. The troopers you play as and see in the cinematically for SWTOR are the best of the best. They have the experience of multiple engagements with Sith and are essentially Bounty Hunters in skill but also in production, meaning they are nearly impossible to replicate.. The Clones probably were trained in CQC and CQB but they all lack the experience and power to actually fight a bladesman close up. It’s like what Cad Bane said when facing Hunter about the uniformity of the clones including Hunter, a mutated clone. The clones are clones from Jango so they have the potential to become a force sensitive killer, but they lack the experiences that he and the troopers of the past have that lets them fight force wielder besides the overwhelm strategy.

[@Pudding--_--]

but weren't the clones already jedi killers since they were cloned from jango the jedi killer

[@tchoythao1730]

@@Pudding--_-- no. They have the potential but not the skills. The reason why bounty hunters and mercenaries are capable of killing Jedi is because of their skills and experience, and even then it’s like 0.001 percent of the entire bounty Hunter and mercenary population that can regularly evident from why the same bounty hunters/mercenaries keep getting hired when dealing with Jedi. In Star Wars you can mass produce a person’s physical, but not their life skills unless they’re strongly connected to the force apparently.

[@arkangelgaming35]

Old republic Sith, and Jedi, werent as strong as modern Sith and Jedi are. As many people will cry because that includes Revan, but it's true. While they're still no pushovers, the power equilibrium was more on par across all entities. Sith and Jedi qerent as focused with the force, thus their power as the modern era and the troopers were more willing, more devoted and held an equal experience against the force users. The modern era.. the droids were cheap and expendable, the clones were vast in firepower but lacked experience against Sith and Jedi and the force users were ever more powerful thanks to the Rule of 2 pushing only the best Sith to power and the Jedi learning for aeons of knowledge of both light and dark from beings such a Malgus, Revan, Vitiate and Bane.

[@toby1061]

But they aren’t just New Republic soldiers they are a special forces unit, they are most definitely stronger than clones no doubt.

[@thalmoragent9344]

True. These guys were like the Old Republic's 501st, better than most

[@danielhughes1711]

*old republic

[@shade8816]

We also have to remember the times the two groups fought in. The Republic Troopers fought with the knowledge that they would semi-regularly contend with force users, and were given weapons, training, and tactics to fight them. The Clones were not trained or equipped as such, as Sidious didn't want an army that could be turned against him and easily overwhelm him. Further more, as mentioned in the video, the average sith of that time was far weaker than any darksiders we saw on screen. The 'sith' armies of old were akin to the average Jedi in the Clone Wars, whom could be taken down without needing elite soldiers or weapons to do so. Only Special Forces regularly scored victories against Sith, and even they struggled when they had to actually fight a competent or powerful force user, typically needing a Jedi to bail them out.

[@theGodfather5870]

Truuuu, stock standard republic soldiers are akin to what we see in KotOR laying all over the floor in the opening ship section hehehe 👽😁

[@reavenmarshall5319]

New Republic soldiers?

[@MikefromTexas1]

"... and fight to the death. Despite that, they had a high survival rate..." Well damn.

[@TheMightyCrucibleKnight184]

Damn indeed.

[@frankblazer6377]

In the actual game, one of the Vanguard's skill trees is a tank.

[@robmit1113]

@@frankblazer6377 he becomes a tank?

[@blingwraith6951]

@@robmit1113 yes, a fish tank

[@Erreul]

@@blingwraith6951 lol'd

[@ironclamp5325]

The explanation on the weapons actually greatly explains why just about every Republic Trooper looked so jacked.

[@fallenfeller9712]

It’s also fair to note that the troopers were trained to fight the lesser sith, on top of vitiate’s Sith being weaker. The clones were also expected to fight droids/separatists in brutal warfare, and weren’t taught about Sith abilities and whatnot.

[@Henlak-]

The fact they were special forces and one went hand to hand against a sith lord and firmed force lightening directly I can only say they are definitely more elite than clones. These men built different

[@fattiger6957]

They also had more to fight for than the clones. The clones had no emotional ties to the Republic, just whatever was programmed into them. Citizen soldiers were fighting, not just for the Republic, but for their homes and families.

[@scottphillips8607]

The average sith was much weaker then - we're not talking about the most elite here. The guy that grenaded Malgus though? He's amazing, but there's no reason to think Jango or some of the more elite clones couldn't do the same. Jango killed several Jedi with his bare hands and Boba was known for killing Jedi with a lightsaber in legends. Jango only lost because his jetpack was broken and he was facing one of the two best warriors in the Jedi order. Windu would have trashed Malgus in a fight too, so just because that guy did better against Malgus than Jango did against Windu doesn't mean much. The elite clones would probably be on par with or better than the old republic commandos (except that one dude - I see him as more comparable to Jango or Boba) imo.

[@korstrom]

@@scottphillips8607 Mace windu is my 2nd favourite Jedi but he would end getting killed by Malgus

[@Pudding--_--]

@@korstrom 🧢

[@scottphillips8607]

@@korstrom Mace Windu beat the most powerful Sith Lord of all time and lived in an era where lightsaber combat was at it's peak (per things Lucas has said). He's one of my least favorite Jedi personally, but I cannot imagine a scenario where he loses to Malgus. Of all of the powerful Jedi/Sith of the time, Windu is the only one who went completely undefeated in combat, dying only because Anakin intervened.

[@jonkv23]

I think there is another factor here: purpose of the army. In the time of the Old Republic, the Republic troopers would have been specifically armed and trained to fight against force wielders due to their abundance on the battlefield. In the Clone Wars, not only were Dark Siders few and far between, but the Clone Army itself was designed by a Sith Lord. When Order 66 was issued, the clones seemed to mainly rely on surprise and overwhelming numbers to kill the Jedi, which is why if Jedi were able to escape the initial ambush they generally tended to survive. Why was this? I doubt Darth Sidious would have wanted the clones trained in anti-force user tactics just in case some turned on him later and passed on these tactics to any rebellious elements.

[@princeofpokemon2934]

You're definitely on the mark. Though the way he explained it is a bit confusing to me.

[@thalmoragent9344]

Well, don't underhand the Clones now, cause they did well in Operation Knightfall, and they're often acclaimed to be the Republic's finest army.

[@shade8816]

Also, if I'm not mistaken, these Republic Troopers were, in a sense, similar to Clone Commandos. They got the best training, weapons, and equipment, and were sent to the worst battle fields. They stood well and above the rank and file troopers that made up the vast majority of the army. I think that would have been a better comparison.

[@MkJamm]

If only Disney gives us some Old Republic movies or shows… then we would see how amazing these soldiers really were!

[@trongtrong8168]

There is a show thats coming out called the high republic but dont get you're hopes up Kathleen Kennedy is leading it

[@davidordaz5251]

@@trongtrong8168 I’ll pass on that than

[@trongtrong8168]

@@davidordaz5251 i mean if you're having something based on the old republic what i expect is massive battles between sith and jedi not some pirates as villains you dont have to be that creative to think that or at least show jedi vs mandalorians and they say the pirates are more dangerous than sith but i know a load of bantha shit when i see it i mean if the pirates were mandalorians maybe

[@davidordaz5251]

@@trongtrong8168 yeah you have a point there

[@trongtrong8168]

@Exar kun The dark side cosmic entity remember clone wars a perfect kids show where you're every day clone gets stabed threw the chest it also taught me politics guerrilla warfare and how to smell profit

[@stickthelanding4785]

Back then both sith and Jedi had quantity over quality. They kept training force users all the time but not all of them were able to hone in there skills due to them being in a war. There is also the fact that most sith fought each other a lot thus lowering their skills and numbers.

[@sisigs4820]

They were probrably far more experienced in duels than modern sith and jedi since dueling was such a common occurrence at the time.

[@bobbirdsong6825]

@@sisigs4820 Maybe, but also consider that later on sith and jedi practiced far more in the dojo than any old republic jedi or sith could have on the battlefield. Sure, the battlefield is the best teacher, but it's also the harshest, and any mistake means death. Hence we could say that even if later jedi had less duels to the death, they were probably more proficient compared to those in the old republic, just because they got more practice before being sent into battle for the first time.

[@jrsanders1212]

I think the line of thought that the Sith were less powerful in the dark side is flawed. While the Sith Empire trained its force users to be loyal to the empire that in and of itself may not be a limiter for becoming powerful. If each Sith is only interested in their own power without an existing infrastructure then the amount of power than can amass is far more limited than rising to a high position in an existing frame work. Even Palpatine used this idea. One could argue that he never really conquered the galaxy. He was legally handed power by a legitimate government.

[@JABN97]

Indeed, it’s a focus on individual Sith power instead of the power of The Sith as a group, an institution, a state. And their state was much more effective, see them planning and existing for over 1000 years and actually taking on the Republic & basically winning. Opposed to Sidious, who while as an individual wielded extreme power but the Sith order was handed absolute authority over the entire galaxy with public acclaim and basically no Jedi order left, and they still got destroyed within 17 years.

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@@JABN97 Facts. Only 2 decades and the Sith fell again

[@bgcvetan]

Malgus will beat Vader, hands down, hell even Revan will beat Vader, our boy is just biased.

[@dragonlord498]

@@JABN97 yep also one thing many people ignore is those sith weren't a bunch of psychos like the dark brotherhood or the ro2 most were fighting for something more then themselves they had friends and family they wanted to protect against a enemy that had in the past multiple times shown a open willingness to commit torturous genocide on them where the ro2 and the dark brotherhood had none of the legitimate motives their predecessors had behind some of their actions. for example look at marr he was more or less the defacto leader of the empire during that time period when vitiate wasn't pulling rank and the sith loved him for being the hero for them he was one reason most other sith didn't get him involved with their squabbles is they respected him to much both for his power and his views and objectives to try and over throw him along with he had tons of supporters as well including most of the dark council and higher up sith and military seemingly included.

[@Cody.357]

I still love watching that one soldier kill 3 Sith and tackle Malgus. He was a fucking badass.

[@TheHawkeye0725]

The clone will always be legends. But those OR troopers were built differently. I really wish NR troopers could’ve been as epic.

[@HawaiianForgeStudios]

OR Troopers take the phrase "Im built different" seriously.

[@Cyaner]

Truthfully I disagree. I believe the reason those of the Old Republic were able to go toe-to-toe with Sith was because they were trained for it. Meanwhile, Clones were trained to fight droids. If you had an old republic soldier up against, say, ventress, he'd have a much better chance at taking her down than a Clone.

[@embodying8moth82]

They were also equipped better than clones. They did train to fight force sensitive but it doesn't take a genius to figure our the grenades, wrist flamethrowers or even Mandolorian Slugthrowers Grant's a greater chance of survival in combat with a Sith

[@dadagan8815]

Don't forget that this was the time of the great Galactic war and the great hyperspace war. This was a period of decades if not century's of constant conflict, the fact that elite Republic commandos could take on dark-side force users isn't a case for them being weaker, it's rather down to just plain experience ie the fact that they had done it many times before. With far more force users in the galaxy at that time in history then the means to combat them was much more common. By the time of the clone wars the sith were thought to have been extinct for millennia, so the means of combating them was probably lost to time. Personally Id say that the Jedi and sith of the old Republic era were much stronger than the high Republic era as there hadn't been any kind of huge conflict for generations, so without the sith threat the Jedi lost their edge and the Republic armies had long been disbanded. as a consequence the clones that replaced the old Republic army would have no knowledge of How to fight force users at all.

[@NODnuke45]

@@dadagan8815 That is a very good point, and arguably the more important detail. I'm pretty sure the average Sith of the old republic era were still weaker than the clone wars Sith though. In the lore at least it is heavily implied by the fact that ultimately Darth Bane saw the need to purge all other Sith to create the rule of two. Because he saw that the Sith were becoming incapable of winning against an evenly matched opponent. Although I definitely think Geetsly is overstating how much weaker the old Republic era Sith were, because they were definitely no joke. But Darth Bane's purge also led to millennia of apparent absence of Sith. So it would have seemed like a waste of resources to try to continuously maintain a military with soldiers capable of fighting on par with force users. And this kind of thing happens in the real world as well, when a certain military threat is more significant, militaries tend to adapt to counter that threat, or otherwise tend to be overwhelmed by it. When those significant threats give way to new ones, the adaptations to counter the old threats become obsolete. So it is easy to see how a military would no longer even be keeping track of information on countering a certain threat after not facing it for millennia.

[@lleroux4979]

@@NODnuke45 I think Bane completely misunderstood the brotherhood of darkness. He saw weaklings who abandoned the old ways for unity, and equality. When in reality Lord Kann was firmly incharge, because he could use the force to manipulate everyother sith master into being his pawns.

[@NODnuke45]

@@lleroux4979 Clearly, they were neither as strong, nor as cunning as Darth Bane, though, or else he wouldn't have succeeded.

[@nerysghemor5781]

The Sith of the old Empire were not necessarily that weak. Some of them were, but the Inquisitor and Warrior player character is incredibly formidable even when s/he goes totally Light Side. I would actually like to see the philosophy of the Light Sith from that time frame better explored.

[@Raiders1917]

In Malcom's case (the badass who charged Malgus with a detonator), yes. In every regular Troopers case. Can't say don't really see enough of them outside the game. Just remember though they are volunteered/conscripted, not literally made for war.

[@akale2620]

To quote kreia: we are as children playing with toys; compared to the power of the old masters. This applies not only to the multitude of sith of vitiates empire, but also to the farmed clones meant as a stopgap measure for palpatines planned coup.

[@blackshogun272]

We can use that Kreia quote with actual feats to back them up but I swear some fans would kill themselves before admitting 95% of TCW Force users would get clapped if they had to fight ancient Sith and Jedi (and other Force-wielding) combatants...

[@justjoking5841]

I'd imagine that fighting force users is common enough in the Old Republic era, to the point where advanced Anti Force User training courses are a requirement for special forces and regulars. The Sith Empire was looking for any numerical advantage they could get considering how small their military actually was in comparison to the Galactic Republic's. The Sith the Republic Troopers fought were probably (by majority) Acolytes looking to earn their place as Apprentices to Sith Lords or Darths. Many of them are likely inexperienced in open warfare; only being used to 1v1 duels. Hence why Elite Republic Trooper Teams could take some numbers of them down, almost single handed. The Sith Acolytes were likely given armor, a lightsaber, some minimal training, and deployed mostly as a force of intimidation. True Sith Apprentices and experienced fighters were also mixed in. In essence, Sith Acolytes were Imperial Conscripted Force Sensitives, not fully trained Sith Warriors.

[@blackshogun272]

May The Force have mercy if they run into a Sith Acolyte that's good with lightsaber deflection and a prodigy with telekinesis. But even then, one would rather face a few of those over and actual Sith Apprentice or Sith Lord on the battlefield...

[@SuccubiSage]

There are actually several instances in SWTOR where NPCs will say they were specifically trained to fight Sith. Of course, we wipe the floor with them due to being the player and highly skilled, but I imagine against the average sith acolyte and apprentice, they might actually have a chance.

[@weeboftheleft5113]

@@SuccubiSage There are also times where as the PC Trooper, you can solo Darths and Council Members...soo...I would argue this actually goes both ways. They were in fact trained to fight ACTUAL Sith, but chances are any true sith was also quite used to fighting against Republic Commandos.

[@neono0dle631]

well it was the time of the actual mandalorians who where known for their abilities to slaughter force users (not only because they had beskar like its told in mando) so if they could do that then maybe elite troopers who were trained from day one to fight force users on a day to day basis could also learn who to do that and dont forget the most impressive feats of their "darths/lords" was literally just throwing lightsabers and single target force lightning until revan poped up and literally fucked everyones shit up with how powerful he was while still having none of these super cool sith feats like being literally unkillable (sion) or just passivly feeding on the life force of everything around you with the power to literally suck a whole planet dry (nihilus) or literally blowing up planets with your version of the force lightning/just riping them apart with your force power (palps). obviously dudes getting trained by these beasts will become so much more dangerous than the ones getting trained by the people that can only do what a new republic padawan can do and the rule of the 2 basically just ensures that the sith can only get stronger because everyone just tries to be this number one guy and for that they have to defeat the existing number one guy so the leader gets stronger with every new one.

[@erichdegurechaff9515]

Exactly this, it is even part of the plot, the majority of the Sith army was acolytes, the Sith were weaker, not the soldier that was super soldiers

[@The3DW4ffle]

The answer is obvious. Old Republic troopers just had better gaming chairs.

[@geetslys]

They had the XBOX mini-fridge.

[@lily-gi2ow]

The Chad Republic Trooper vs The Virgin Storm Trooper

[@kevbarron6501]

Mega lolz

[@lindowamamiyaofthefareastb4296]

@@lily-gi2ow I can't imagine the amount of disgrace and embarrassement the storm troopers are as conscripted soldiers to their Old Republic counterparts

[@vampirictheshadowpriest7538]

I haven’t watched the video yet, but I would guess that one of the reasons why they’re able to take on sith is because during that era, there were more sith so they were most likely trained to take down lightsaber-wielding opponents, compared to clones who were trained to be extremely efficient at dismantling droids.

[@SamuelMcAlpin-ft3uu]

“No dark acolyte was killed by a clone trooper throughout the war.” Pong Krell would like a word on that one.

[@viperson9818]

I will say in desperate times these guys are more aggressive then clones.

[@johnto744]

Yeah but that's not entirely fair as the clones were made to be less aggressive then Jango. I think if you compared the nol class arcs to the old republic troopers it would be much more clear who was more powerful and a more apt comparison

[@NODnuke45]

Except maybe clone commandos, granted it would probably have to be a whole squad of them to be equal to a single force user. But I'm pretty sure that would still be relatively impressive compared to regular clone army clones.

[@katsarelas1947]

I like that a lot of content creators are giving SWTOR content another scoop recently

[@fattiger6957]

I am so glad SWTOR has lasted as long as it did. I remember being so hype for the game and playing the open beta weekend. I played for a couple years then took a long time off. Last year, I resubbed for a few months and still enjoyed it (apart from the Revan expansion) I'm probably going to resub again soon for the next expansion.

[@katsarelas1947]

@@fattiger6957 same! I’ve played on and off for a few hours every few months since launch but only recently really got into it as my main game !

[@supremeleadergnkdroid3202]

“alderan stood as a beacon of hope, but then the empire came.”

[@intoHeck1964]

I think its more about experience. The old republic troopers commonly fought actual sith and so developed tactics and training appropriately. The clones rarely saw them and so weren’t experienced fighting them. Look at the animated series where they straight rush grievous and maul.

[@danielthompson6207]

I haven't played SWTOR in quite some time, but I remember the commando class being OP as hell. That was the only class I could solo with and not have much trouble with anything.

[@fabiocosta3830]

Things got a bit more balanced. Gunnery is a jack of all trades and very OP as long as you keep that alacrity high. Assault specialist is crit dependent but very powerful, as long as one does the rotation correctly (is not newbie friendly). Combat medic is the easiest healer to learn, but would say is not the best for single target (is pretty good at AoE healing tho).

[@HamanKarn567]

Not every force user is a one man invincible army.

[@argiedude3762]

Sidious' quote is quite ironic when you consider that Maul actually became, for a brief time, a rival.

[@alipanz.]

who tf is "Mail"

[@murderousintent7838]

and then Palpatine kicked his ass in a duel, killed his brother, and destroyed his shadow collective along with killing Mother Talzin like he was knocking over a jenga tower

[@williampaulsinghharika2627]

A rival? He only believed so. He was never more than an ant.

[@cloudnein8114]

@@murderousintent7838 Talzin and maul would've killed sidious if it wasn't for dooku

[@murderousintent7838]

@@cloudnein8114 doubtful, would've certainly been tougher, the only person who could really stand up to Sidious was Yoda, being Sidious actively tried to flee from him

[@AdeptKing]

I can see those guys being above the standard clones, at least Havoc Squad and other special groups but I think the commandos and the Arc Troopers would give them hell.

[@olafgurke4699]

For sure. Especially since the Commandos are basically Mandalorians with shields.

[@owenhardy7035]

I don’t know, I personally think Jace Malcom would rock an arc trooper or clone commando’s ass.

[@AdeptKing]

@@owenhardy7035 Ok yeah I can see him doing good against a standard no name commando or Arc granted I think they would still give him trouble. I was mainly talking about the "standard" Havoc squad or other special operative vs a standard commando/Arc.

[@olafgurke4699]

@@owenhardy7035 Well, obviously. Jace Malcom is the leader of the special forces of the Republic, the best of the best of the best. If we want to pit him in a fair fight against a clone, we'd have to take a Null-class ARC trooper. Or maybe an Alpha, but I think that one would go to Jace already.

[@Fr0st1989]

It should also be noted that a single random bounty hunter just up and killed a staggering amount of Jedi on his/her own in the Old Republic era

[@OwlsPoniesDragonsandWolves]

The player character?

[@dankmemester1362]

"How were the Old Republic Soldiers able to Take on SITH in 1v1's?" Because my SWTOR character is level 70.

[@christopherg2347]

Some remarks: - Clones are not that much better then human soldiers. The main reason the Republic used them, was that it needed a army _now_ It did not have a centralized military. Insituting a Draft. Creating Training regimens. Testing the regimen with a first few batches. Refinment and then getting a workable army out. Such a thing takes years to get off the ground. The seperatists expected a quick victory - and propably would have gotten it - before they realized the Clone Army existed. - Sith were indeed that much weaker. The average Sith Acolyte had not much more training then a Republic Trooper. By the time of Alderaan and the Sacking of Corouscant the empire was seriously running out of steam and manpower. The Empire needed a truce badly at that time. The sacking of corouscant only happened to get a more favourable deal. - The rule of two also exists to focus/concentrate the dark side in fewer beings, making each one more powerfull.

[@murderousintent7838]

no, Clone Troopers are vastly superior to common recruits being not only extremely strong and tactically intelligent, but also loyal as in they don't usually question orders, and they are trained from birth making them more capable in combat than any recruit could be local psfs and recruited armies against the Droid Army often got messed up bad during ground battles due to the Separatists' numbers advantage, but Clones had a 20:1 kill ratio with them which heavily nullified their ground advantage, that along with their ability to think creatively in combat to come up with clever tactics allowed Clones to beat back the droid army again and again

[@clonetf141]

Youre fastly underselling the clones, they are among the best soldiers in the star wars galaxy, easliy in the top 10 if not top 5 if you ignore force sensitive like the jedi and the sith.

[@michelecastellotti9172]

The problem with canon clone trooper depiction is that its weak and more often than not useless. In legends, clones were only ever defeated when met with vastly superiorly trained soldiers (mandalorians) or having EXTREME disadvantages, such as the battle of jabiim or extreme numerical inferiority against droids.

[@Anzyn]

@@murderousintent7838 That’s the thing, clones at least in canon are mostly trained to fight droids, not the living. And often times they are seen as disposable clone slaves who are also very expensive to produce. It’s better to have recruits who can do just as good as a clone for the main army. Clones are better off as special forces or something

[@kevinwalker6840]

The clones physically speaking are a slightly upgraded version of an Olympic athlete. Sure they are still human, but they are still far superior than any recruitment would be, and that's not even looking at training.

[@Scarface39212]

Yes please, to the idea of Old Republic era videos. Pretty much one of (if not) the best eras of Star Wars in my opinion, so I'm all for it.

[@fattiger6957]

Agreed. I find the Old Republic era to be much more interesting than the Clone Wars era. I like the Rebellion era, but the idea of armies of Jedi fighting armies of Sith is just so awesome.

[@jandalenito6968]

I know everyone loves jace and all but can we acknowledge that malgus took a grenade to the face, smashed on to a mountain, smashed THROUGH said mountain and SURVIVED?!

[@fattiger6957]

Malgus is a serious badass. That guy has survived a lot that would kill most others. I'm so glad they didn't kill him off.

[@kratacosnatuu7082]

@@fattiger6957 They did. He got better.

[@justsomeotherguywithamusta9949]

@@kratacosnatuu7082 *worse.

[@kratacosnatuu7082]

@@justsomeotherguywithamusta9949 Well, he probably felt that *not* being dead was a healthier state, but I see your interpretation. I meant to reference a joke about characters who remark on coming back from being presumed dead. Apologies for any confusion.

[@justsomeotherguywithamusta9949]

@@kratacosnatuu7082 got it, in hindsight, I dont know why I didnt catch your meaning, I just thought you meant his character, not a big fan of malgus, fucker doesn't know how to stay dead. He's basically the living incarnation of "bitch, how dare you still live."

[@crazyscotsman9327]

My headcanon is that Havoc Squad were originally trained by Mandalorians or were Mandalorians who were still loyal to the goals of Mandalore the Preserver. And those Mandalorians or the trainers for Havoc squad refused to listen to Mandalore the Lesser or the Vindicated and fight for the Sith.

[@mordredpendragon1235]

Cuz everyone during the Old Republic era was simply just built different

[@lerneanlion]

The Old Republic era is just as interesting as the Clones Wars' era to say the least. Not only that the Republic was heavily militarized but the so-called True "Sith" unknowingly performed a reformation for the Empire's stability. This just shown how far both sides have become and what they have evolved and developed to get to that point. So yeah, this era in the history of Star Wars is just as interesting as the Clones Wars' era.

[@HarrowKrodarius]

Please note some spoilers from SWTOR are present in this comment Also I find the weapons from SWTOR to be more advanced because there was a dark age of technology were much of the technology was lost. I mean look at the Sith Empires weaponry in the inquisitor storyline I mean one ship with one weapon could wipe out an entire fleet in one shot. while the death star could only every destroy one ship at a time. Or during the Jedi Knight story were the Sith stole republic superweapons combined them into a ship weapon and could kill planets. So I would say it is more due to the constant war the galaxy lost nearly all of its technological progress and during the movies the technology was slowly starting to catch back up to how it was in the past

[@Voltaic_Fire]

You can fit in a lot more training when you're not aging at twice the normal rate. You can learn to really carry off that plot armour. 😁

[@jacobwolgast3005]

You can fit in a lot less training when you have a life outside of the army

[@crazyteck99]

@@jacobwolgast3005 training is nothing, experience is the most important things. Even captain Rex say that "Experience outranks every things". So if you live long enough you have more experience than just training.

[@TheHawkeye0725]

@@crazyteck99 I agree. You won’t know what it’s like to fight a battle until you’re IN a battle

[@DawidKov]

"Republic troopers" replace with "special forces". All Republic servicemen were "Republic troopers". Regular troops did have inferior weapons and armour, but they still had access to the heavy armour similar to the clones'. Special forces wore *durasteel*, not plastoid. There is also nothing in any of the games to indicate that blasters were less powerful. Clones' armour just isn't all that great. Sith weren't all weak during this time. Even an apprentice Sith was a threat similar to Ventress. But because Special Forces had training specifically to fight Force users, and there were more than enough opportunities to test tactics, they were much better prepared than the clones. If you can accept that a droid like HK-47 can kill Sith on his own simply using tactics designed to counter Force users, then I think it's completely believable that a squad of Special Forces troops with the best equipment and training in the galaxy can do the same.

[@viperstriker4728]

Exactly. And HK-47 might have been the first but HK units were later mass produced and we see several other models fight or report to have killed Jedi and Sith. So that is not just one special droid but rather what happens when you don't care how much it costs and put all the tech from that area to use, same as IG droids.

[@archemides1517]

hell ill argue that the fighters of the old republic days are stronger compared to GAR, sith, or jedi because of expiernce. by the time the separatist crisis jedi and clones were unexperienced in fighting, hell the jedi were know as peacekeepers rather then warrior monks of the old republic

[@DawidKov]

@@archemides1517 Yeah, both the Jedi and Sith were very powerful back in those days, just because of natural selection and experience. Sith had to survive the Academy on Korriban just to make it out. Weak ones were culled. Jedi who didn't prove to be capable of fighting were eventually killed off, whether on Coruscant or elsewhere. And while clones were an example of peak human physical condition and rigorous training, people fangasm over them so much they refuse to believe they weren't necessarily all that special. Some clones were amazingly good - mostly ARC troopers, and from what we see Captains get a similar level of training. But a lot of them were just good soldiers, nothing extraordinary. They also only fought for a few years. The soldiers of the Old Republic endured almost 30 years of on and off conflict with the Sith Empire, some of them having fought since they were very young. They had tons more experience, and certainly an extraordinary amount of experience fighting Sith.

[@viperstriker4728]

@@DawidKov "Beware old men in a profession where men usually die young." Not sure where the quote is from but I think that applies to the old Republic troops be the end of the war.

[@Raffterman2003]

@@viperstriker4728 Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young. Old warriors did not get old by accident; they got old by being wise, having the right knowledge, and being tough. Never underestimate an old man who has grown up in a rough profession or a rough environment. These men have been around. They have done things, and experienced things, that you probably have never even thought about. They are tough, their minds are tough, and they have the knowledge, the skill, and the will to finish you off, if you force them to do so. A boy will fight you, but a older man will hurt you. Bohdi Sanders, Modern Bushido: Living a Life of Excellence

[@majiel2709]

In the Days of The Old Republic people had been engaged in war for decades and weren't slowing down because the War was still cold and only beginning to heat up, but in the days of the Clone Wars and Anakin Skywalker, most of the galaxy was still snug and relaxed from 1000 years of peace

[@endlesswaffles6504]

Republic troopers had it rough. Instead of fighting incompetent battle droids, they had to fight elite empire infantry, battle droids with more firepower than a light tank, and actual force users. Anyone who could survive that would be dangerous. The reason Havoc squad charged Magus' Sith army is because that's what they have been doing since day 1.

[@Butter_Warrior99]

When my uncle figured out I watched the old republic trailer with the old republic troopers in it, he got me to try it out.

[@chrisreilly1290]

I love this Era. Full out war between armies and force users! Not a planned war between republic and separatists, or a civil war where one side is forced to use guerilla tactics to have any chance of victory.

[@fattiger6957]

The Sith were very numerous during the Old Repubic era. Thus, there were a lot of weak Sith during that period. I'm sure for every Master-level Sith, you had 1000 weak Sith. While I don't think Troopers could take on a Master Sith, those weaker ones would go down much easier.

[@Ilovevidgames123]

It's also worth noting that the Sith and Dark Acolytes of the Clone Wars era rarely, if ever, personally waded into the thick of actual battles between the GAR and the Seperatist armies. The only times they ever fought clone troopers were in small skirmishes in what might be called "special forces" missions, and they usually had their own special forces troops with them. Less exposure to the chaos of a serious, bloodbath battle means fewer chances to get cornered after a lot of exhausting fighting.

[@armoredplacoderm]

Not every trooper can solo a Sith, but Havoc Squad is built different.

[@nickvinsable3798]

Yes, certainly! I’d like to understand the Imperial Agents, the Smugglers, & the Bounty Hunters. However, I’d also like to point out that THAT Empire did have Imperial Troops in Black armor, which is pretty polar opposite to the Republic Trooper’s White Armor (follow up video on the Imperial Troopers). Thus, lets combine SWtOR’s Imperial Intelligence’s Imperial Agents with Republic’s Strategic Information Service’s equivalent before moving on to Smugglers & Bounty Hunters, both Imperial & Republic, followed by the era’s Jedi & Sith. I personally still like the idea that, despite making Light Sided choice (in-game content), Sith can still be power hungry enough to horde power through people & such; being Kind is just a tool to more power & such…

[@DarthSpock1]

Yup, you nailed it there. With the numbers they were fielding, you know they were giving up quality for quantity. Similar to how low tier Jedi could fall pretty easy during the Clone Wars.

[@heliosjollywolf9552]

Tbh if you compare the 2 erass the old republic sith had just as much powerfull ones as the ones in the clone wars and galactic civil war, they just had waaay more cannon fodder

[@TSmith-yy3cc]

Honestly, the trailers for SWTOR are my favourite SW media.

[@quintinjansevanvuuren9638]

I think the same can be said for Imperial troopers having to fight off Jedi. I rate someone like Lt Pierce could send a Jedi back to Coruscant in pieces.

[@allenbroussard1451]

Ahh.. Old Republic. So many good memories. I was actually the reason that Commando class got nerfed so hard a few months after release because i built an unkillable medic commando that could tank 3 sith beating on him in PVP.

[@alejandroelluxray5298]

Republic troopers looking at the clones: Our worthy succesors

[@KingCARROT19]

The soldiers are apart of Havoc squad, and specialized in killing Sith. I'm sure you know that, and as you said they lived in a much different time and expectations and training was much, much different

[@eds1942]

Republic troopers knew what they were fighting for. They had lives, they had their loved ones, their friends and their home worlds to live or die for. And doing so against fascists along side their Jedi allies, who fought and bleed the same as they. Whereas Clone Troopers were breed, raised and trained to be solely used as cannon fodder against a similarly dispositioned enemy who’s only real difference was that they’d plug-in instead of regularly needing to eat something. If one of them died, they’d just be replaced by another who looked, sounded, and had lives identical to themselves. What were they fighting over? A bad trade deal. As far a they knew, even their Jedi commanders would hardly loose any sleep if the whole battalion that they led were wiped out. And the majority of the Sith were by and large weaker back before the Rule of Two because of their numbers and infighting, which was the reason for the Ro2.

[@fattiger6957]

Agreed 100% The instinct to protect your home and loved ones make soldiers fight all the more fiercely.

[@heliosjollywolf9552]

Also hes comparing sith who were all personally trained by a sith lord and sith of who the majority were trianed in an academy and sent to the battle field so its obvious that on average the old republic ssith would come out weaker but therr are hundreds or thousends of them while the clone warss and galactic civil war have maybe 20 of them

[@eds1942]

@@heliosjollywolf9552 Their philosophy of dominance and apprentice selection and training under the Sith Rule of Two was just different and more rigorous. Plagueis’ theory about strength through concentrating the Force into fewer individuals merely played into his brand of Sith philosophy in regards to his greater theory as to why the Sith were stronger and the Jedi were primed to fail. Another part of Plegueis’ theory was that there were so many Jedi actively exerting their influence on the galaxy (via their use of the Force) that it perhaps ironically created an imbalance in the Force. Another part dealt with the Order’s ignorance of just how much power (in terms of influence) that the Sith had amassed. While the last part had to do with the fact that the current members of the Jedi Order had never had deal with any Sith, no Jedi had in about a thousand years. So their skills set would be lacking against the Sith in general if it came down to a one on one match. Another truth to the matter that perhaps the Sith didn’t know was that the Jedi had lost part of their connection to the Force as they had put aside listening to the Force for guidance and holding up the spirit of their code in exchange for following orders and the letter of their code. Rather than being a religious order of warrior monks who followed their heart in addition to their mind and what was right and just, they became an members of a institutionalized branch of the diplomatic and security core employed in service to the government via the will of the Senate. Rather than David Carradine’s wandering Shaolin monk from the old ‘Kong Fu’ tv show, they were an ex-military FBI agent on assignment or a the head operative of a diplomatic security detail. What they would or could do didn’t extend too far beyond their mission parameters.

[@heliosjollywolf9552]

@@eds1942 well then at least since we can see how powerfull the sith are in both era's the first part of plaguous ( idk how to write his damn name ) is false since there were hundreds of sith in the old republic but the sith lords were still either on parr or above the ones seen in thr clone wars/ galactic civil war

[@eds1942]

@@heliosjollywolf9552 Plague + is. He was sort of a biologist, attempting to play god to suit his goal. He Is a Plague. That’s the way I remember how to spell it. The first half comes from the Plagueis novel and ‘Book of Sith’. For all of the Sith running around in the Old Republic’s civil war era, there were relatively few Sith Lords of any major influence (in Sith territory), and half of them were caught up in their own political games. In the Clone War era, the Sith Lords exerted a lot of influence over the known galaxy as a whole, and the Force tipped the Balance in their favor. The other Sith in both eras were either pawns, aspiring Sith Lords, useful rogues and pretenders. Comparing the troops is like I said in the OP. Commandos fighting with their Jedi allies for the fate of the galaxy vs rank and file soldiers breed to be cannon fodder under their Jedi superiors fighting in a war that seemed to have no point beyond a means to justify the need for a massive war machine.

[@jeremyzang8802]

That analogy with the situation being like the jedis is perfect for this video we all know the clones ended at Lot of jedi during order 66 including grand masters of the order

[@ginkitsune6867]

Keep the old republic lore going! Love hearing about this time period

[@walkerspectre]

7:00 im sorry but i don't think that's really a good argument... i mean, it's true that being a sith acolyte is different from being an actual sith lord, but during the old republic times even an acolyte would use extremely op powers, powers that were rare in the clone wars.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

That's the most obvious bias in the whole thing.

[@steamrocker5401]

Simple, they had balls made of *Durasteel*

[@LAV-III]

Cortosis is more like it

[@magnustherad3291]

@@LAV-III I was gonna say that

[@void335]

Nah more like beskar

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

Nah they're made of Kyber krystals in a sac of beskar with nerves of a zillobeast shell

[@Aikurisu]

Well... one could argue that both Jedi and Sith fielded inexperienced members on the front lines. Granted, the Jedi at the time were complacent and began a mass recruitment of force-sensitives to counter the Sith's emerging numbers, many of whom were selected among slaves, which they had a vast supply of. That and the Sith were perfectly fine with sending the untrained to their doom in order to weed out the weak among their ranks while the Jedi simply didn't have enough time to better train their newer acolytes. As for the Old Republic soldiers, they were trained to combat Sith. Clones were trained to combat droids. Huge difference. They were trained for different roles.

[@rockymountaingypsy]

I think its worth noting this was before the rule of 2 which meant only when the apprentices skills surpassed the master could they take on their own apprentice so the sith slowly grew more powerful with each new generation

[@radicalcentrist4990]

Take into consideration that the numbers of both Jedi and the Sith were much higher during the Old Repiublic era, they were a pretty common sight, therefore it was more common to engage them in battle, so soldiers were more prepared to deal with them.

[@alphaironheart]

In BF2 Me and my squad was all Heavies so we used our Z6s to mow down the Sith from multiple angles.

[@scribblerstudios9895]

Which was a viable way to take out a force wielder. At that rate of fire even a master of form three would have a hard time blocking every single blast.

[@alphaironheart]

​@scribblerstudios9895 Only takes a handful of shots to get through to take em down.

[@Plastikdoom]

Ehh, they (republic troopers) are far more bad ass, they were regular people who volunteered for it, not tailor made in clone labs, from one of the best genetic sets. Sheer grit, and training, backed up by great equipment is what them so good. And better on a one to one basis, from their starting point. They are the superior warrior. Especially from an economic stand point.

[@wizard_of_poz4413]

I suspect they would have a tough time against someone like a null arc. Plus a dc-15 would probably render that armor little more useful than a Halloween costume

[@bishop631]

Well 3000 years of advancement tend to do that. Like it’s comparable to firing a gun at some Roman armor and laughing about how weak it is

[@puppetstudio4989]

also there were alot more siths then than now

[@cowboydoggo6168]

@@bishop631 The universe didn’t really advance that much, sure technology got slightly better (in 3000 years!) in some places but in most places it stagnated or even declined. Like compare an ISD and a mandolorian battle ship, the mandolorians clap. Their technological progress isn’t strait up like ours, it’s a curvy mess.

[@bishop631]

@@cowboydoggo6168 i know but its a established fact blasters got a lot more powerful in that time. And the republic troopers got equipped with the best equipment all around so if you take it to the clonewars we are talking about atleast katan level armor as their whole thing was the best training and equipment available. Maybe a better comparison is our weapons against ww1 stuff all very similar on a mechanical level but vastly different output

[@AGaiman]

The weakness of Sith soldiers may give credence to Bane's theory of the Dark Side as a poison to be concentrated instead of a spreading fire.

[@fattiger6957]

I think it just comes down to it being a big group. Whenever you collect a bunch of people together and have them do the same thing, there will always be a lot of mediocre people and a few stand-outs. I'm sure there were plenty of mediocre Jedi during the Clone Wars.

[@Animusical216]

You and star wars theory are definitely my favourite lore channels.

[@D1craigRob]

Easily explained in the darth banes books. The dark side of the force is at its strongest when wielded by one and sought after by another. When 100s, maybe even 1000s of sith, share the force it is severely weakened.

[@thesilence223]

I'm going to say It's mostly thanks to the fact that Sith were far more common In their Era It's similar to a standard Infantrymen trying to take down a tank Near Impossible alone but In a squad your chances have skyrocketed.

[@goisles6728]

One interpretation I heard was that the Rule of Two was created so that two Sith Lords could have the entire power of the dark side to themselves. If there were thousands of Sith Warriors, then by definition, post-Bane Sith Lords would have been thousands of times stronger than the Sith that the Republic Troopers were fighting.

[@ColonColonel]

this is exactly how it's explained in the Darth Bane novel trilogy

[@RallasterAsuremen]

@@ColonColonel Bane also failed comically, he died with Apprentices that were weaker than him...not stronger (and honestly that was what he considered to be the real weakness of the Old Sith, the Master dies to a Weakling due to circumstance not Skill and the New Master is weaker than the Last). He was also an idiot! His "Master Plan" resulted in the Sith 'winning' for about 20+ years then going extinct shortly thereafter...while the Old Sith survived for more than a millennium (despite their dysfunctional behavior).

[@dreadnaught6842]

I always thought that it was before "The rule of two" was implemented into sith and the sith in the old republic were just weaker compared to modern ones, since the modern ones have been around longer and have been only growing stronger when each new apprentice betrays his master.

[@cortybooth8428]

It’s neat how the sith didn’t really become powerful until the rule of 2 and that helps explain this video

[@Colonel-Cornelius-CornJulio]

Now I feel even more of a badass when I play a Republic Trooper. Gosh, I love this era so much!

[@Adam4s]

I always thought it was because Sith warriors were given less training so they can replace their casualties quicker.

[@richardschneider7629]

I've played all the Classes in Swtor, but my personal favorite and my main is the Female Republic Trooper. A lot of that has too do with Jennifer Hale's performance.

[@fattiger6957]

I guess I should finish that class story. The only ones I haven't completed are Trooper and Smuggler.

[@mejman2]

Loved her performance to I think she is the one who does female shepherd

[@richardschneider7629]

@@mejman2 Yeah, playing the Female Trooper at times does feel like playing FemShep in the Star Wars universe. Fun fact: the Male voice for the Trooper was Captain America in Avengers EMH

[@mejman2]

@@richardschneider7629 I do remember the male voice being familiar to

[@DawidKov]

Absolutely. I know most people consider Trooper's story to be the worst Pub arc, but I liked it. I never enjoyed playing a Force user because it kinda forces the whole Light/Dark stuff onto your RP, while non-Jedi chars get to make actual choices based on their own principles, instead of some higher standard. Plus, I felt like Trooper's story is one of the most fitting KOTFE tie ins. OK, the Force mumbojumbo isn't very well presented, but it feels very natural that a former Major in Special Forces would form this guerrilla insurgency. Having a Jedi, or even worse, a smuggler as the Alliance Commander feels weird to me.

[@emzonik8851]

7:23 - I don't remember when did he say that, but propably those words are adressed to Plagueis. In truth Sidious considered Darth Maul an actual sith lord and taught him the ways of sith keeping his master unaware of that. So what he partly means says here. Yes, to him casual warriors are lesser beings, as he describes "animals". But to him Maul was beyond that.

[@bryanmoore3927]

What? Sidious distinctly left Mall in the dark on may Sith tehcnicques Mall was only ever a pawn not his preferred padawan

[@emzonik8851]

@@bryanmoore3927 He couldn't teach him some things just yet as Plagueis would find that out. He kept from him mostly the sith alchemy rituals and more ambitious powers like force lightning, so that during the fight maul would present himself as an assassin to plagueis, relying mostly on combat. But he taught him most of the sith history, the rule of 2 and even the grand plan. Also, Maul was very loyal to his master but he wasn't blindly loyal, he was supposed to hate sidious as a sith should. During that time Sidious was different, he still wasn't a superpowerfull master who switches apprentices all the time and seeks for the most powerfull one in the galaxy. At that point Palpatine was proud of himself that he has a sith apprentice on his own at all. He considered Maul a true sith, not just an assassin. I know he kept some things from him, but still, he taught him much more about the sith than Plagueis allowed him. That was the time that he already knew he doesn't want Plagueis in the future. And he gave Maul the darth title. Once he found out about Mauls apparent death, he called it a terrible loss. So like I said, despite he violated the ruke of 2, Maul was a true Sith Lord.

[@respiratoryfailure3780]

Basically, siths were common and most aren't as strong cause they were never handpicked like the ones selected during the rule of two and soldiers at the time were trained to handle siths.

[@manipulatortrash]

it probably also has some stuff to do with expectations and experience. old republic troopers were very much aware of these crazy space wizards and their laser swords, while most clone troopers were fighting battle droids and were certainly never going to take an initiative to take on said space wizards. they were always going to leave it up to the jedi and knew they couldnt take them on by themselvves. heck, even the guy who "1v1'd" malgus, didnt even really do it solo. He caught malgus off guard mid-saber fight in a suicide stunt where he blew both of themselves up, with not even enough force to kill either of them.

[@Getsugaru]

The argument that the Sith Warriors and Inquisitors were weaker than even the Dark Acolytes doesn't really hold up in the long run, considering that the clones never even put a scratch on Maul or Savage, and there were plenty of "mere" warriors and inquisitors who routinely slaughtered Republic Troopers. I also disagree with the statement that building and supporting a unified empire does not constitute power. Power is power, no matter the form. Is having people follow you commands personal power? No, but does that matter when at the end of the day your leadership brings Victory? As Lana Beniko puts it, "it's only natural that the strongest should lead, but the goal should be strength--not necessarily leadership. If one is truly strong, leadership comes inevitably." So if anything, building and supporting a unified empire requires power all throughout, with the strongest rising in ranks to better lead. In the end, the philosophy of the Sith is still upheld, it's merely the methodology that receives a new approach. Also, Darth Malgus would like a word with you after class, Mr. Geetsly's.

[@dx_n3774]

Thank that exactly the same thing I said to someone else just shorter but with more example

[@Storm91000]

So these guys where basically ODST’s

[@christopherhanton6611]

THEY WERE HAVOC SQUAD and several other special units.

[@shadeshadow007]

i would be really curious to see what a Jedi or this era would make of the order during the clone wars

[@therat8401]

The main reason as to how the can take on siths was the huge sets of balls they were dragging.

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Pretty good video but I am noticing some bias, so the Sith of this era were weaker because there is a lot who focus more on the Empire then themselves wouldn't that also apply to the Clones and Troopers? The Clone troopers were just created to just fight for the Republic in large numbers, while the Trooper was the best of the best they trained for the worst situations. So the whole point at the 6:50 time doesn't work does it? Also is there any proof the Blasters were weaker, it feels like the Galaxy went into a dark age as there is pleanty of tech back then that is way more advance then in TCW, Planet Prision anyone. Also no these Sith are the true Sith because the Sith race became part of the teachings of the Dark Jedi which wasn't to replace the Light side but allow the freedom to choose ones path.

[@fattiger6957]

I don't think nationalism was as big as the video makes it out to be. For the rank and file Sith, yes. But there were plenty of Sith Lords who were scheming against each other even if it did damage the Empire. Hell, there is even a plot about a Sith Lord trying to usurp the Emperor. And Malgus abandoned the Empire to start his own Order.

[@viperstriker4728]

I agree, there are several technologies that are clearly way more advanced. Hyper space beacons that can allow in atmosphere navigation, planet prison which is the death star but on a smaller version of the isd, desolator which can wipe out a fleet in one shot, HK droids which hunted force users on mass, stims that let normal humans survive blaster fire.... I can name superior tech from that era all day. Or I can just point out that we see many of the same creatures show up in old republic and no evidence that the blasters are weaker when using these creatures as a standard to compare across time. I think Eck is assume Star Wars is like Earth (as he also makes some great history videos on his other channel) and thus tries to explain the technological stagnation. Our dark age didn't result in the loss of much technologies just a decentralization of it so why would it be any different? The answer being hyperdrive tech was losted during the dark age causing almost a complete collapse of the economy as some planets would have been completely cut. Something like an island chain losing boats and having to swim a mile with floaties to get any form of trade done. I don't think Eck has considered that which creates his bias here.

[@viperstriker4728]

@@fattiger6957 Even that rank and file Sith was constantly scheming to replace their master, even if they had to due it in the middle of the battle or betray him to the enemy. Though some of the nationalism from the military does certainly seep in their ranks a few times.

[@Dark_Magnus]

I always wondered why blasters seemed less effective in the Old Republic era as opposed to the Empire era. Partially that's due to unconsciously conflating them with bullets (a bullet from a musket will still kill you today, assuming it hits you). But knowing that blasters were less effective and less powerful makes a lot more sense. Plus 3,000 years of development probably didn't (or did lol) hurt

[@majiel2709]

I've played SWTOR and met plenty of Sith Acolytes while playing as Sith Warrior and I'm not saying your wrong about some Sith being weaker cause they had no ambition but there were plenty with enough ambition and ego to drown a Hutt in passion, there was alot of weak ones but there were plenty of strong ones

[@DarknetDude]

Republic Trooper Equipment Then: Chad Energy. Republic Trooper Equipment Now: Wack

[@adamr6686]

Omg bro ur intro brought back memories to the original battlefront games wow . I haven’t heard that sound since my childhood . Thank you for that nostalgia