I always just have to shake my head in silence when i hear or read negative comments that are made against that which is taught in the book of mormon. It usually starts off by saying roughly that "current research has shown that there was never warfare found in the americas, thus showing us how the BofM cannot be true." And they say it as though there is a competition or something. Yet in every single case, time has shown us the truth, and has been unchangeable in its statements and teachings, and has shown that every unknown piece of knowledge can be laid to rest by simply reading the book of mormon to find the answers for both learning of christ, and understanding the historical record more clearly. We may not see the elephants yet, but before one gnashes at the idea, just give it some time and rest assured that the truth will eventually reveal itself, and those elephant bones will be dug up and made known.
@sherrieash98524 жыл бұрын
Exact location of all this is not as important as the messages sent from Heavenly Father as to what we are to do and to grow spiritually. The other things like proof of locations and arguing over where it all took place will be revealed when we are suppose to know it. Right now we are to focus on Faith, learning repentance and growing spiritually as well as sharing the truth with others. This other stuff is a distraction from the important things.
@xman-ms3mp3 жыл бұрын
Yes my goal is to be a righteous man. Names and locations are just that but it’s the righteous message I’m interested in.
@Rope_yogurt Жыл бұрын
What about how the book of Abraham was translated? What about Joseph Smith being a polygamist and having a fourteen-year-old wife on the sole purpose of procreating and wanting to have children. What about the kinder hook plates? These types of questions can't go unanswered.
@KB-nv4bl Жыл бұрын
@@Rope_yogurt you sound like you’ve lost your testimony. Polygamy was a part of our church history. Get used to it. The church does not practice. Plural marriage or polygamy anymore. Thank goodness…. one mother-in-law is plenty.
@Rope_yogurt Жыл бұрын
@@KB-nv4bl it's hard to keep my testimony when i learned that Joseph Smith was a terrible man. He has a wife that was 14 while he was 37. That makes him a pedophile. He didn't like black people. Which makes him a racist. Then in 1976 god changed his mind about black people?? Then the translation of the book of Abraham turned out to be a burial procedures scrolls. Which he "translated" horribly. Then he translated the kinderhook plates which ended up being fake. That makes him a liar. We're supposed to think he was a profit? He was a liar, he was a racist, and he was a pedophile.
@kleosa40026 жыл бұрын
So the howlers are the critics of the Book of Mormon. Would not a better title be Howlers and the Book of Mormon. Howlers in the Book of Mormon implies that howlers are a character found in the book itself. Just my humble opinion.
@davejohnson72496 жыл бұрын
1:20 - howlers are in the book.
@stevent66142 жыл бұрын
Michael Coe was always so condescending when it came to the Book of Mormon, yet he was proven to be wrong in pretty much all of his claims.
@Hamann96317 жыл бұрын
I am disturbed by the speakers certainty about where The Book of Mormon took place. He said "must". Why didn't he say "probably" or "I am convinced"? I am not sure if I would have spoken with such certainty about where it actually took place. To those confused about where The Book of Mormon took place I say, "You are a fellow saint. Please stay active and we will be certain when we are rubbing shoulders in the Celestial Kingdom.".
@jameseverett49767 жыл бұрын
Jim Caponzi - dude...what happened to you? Why do you even care? It sounds like a matter of life or death for you. People all over the world believe stuff that other people don't. OK so you don't believe mormonism. But don't you have a life? Why would you even be watching this or reading the comments?
@KB-nv4bl Жыл бұрын
You can be disturbed all you want, but that’s his objective. He’s not doing an “I think it is project.” he is like someone defending their dissertation.
@Hamann96317 жыл бұрын
I thought the Book of Mormon took place in Meso America when I was younger and had done less research. The evidence points to North America.
@robertrosskopf46416 жыл бұрын
Joseph Smith never called it the hill Cumorah. Oliver Cowdery appears to be responsible for jumping to the conclusion. Moroni tells us that he had to leave the land of his birth, because they were killing anyone who wouldn't deny the Christ. Why would he go back to bury the gold plates? I think it is more likely that he went in search of the northern Nephite colonies.
@karlshaner24535 жыл бұрын
@@robertrosskopf4641 He did wonder for more than a decade after the destruction of his people, which would be easy to get from southern Mexico to the New York region in that time.
@robertrosskopf46415 жыл бұрын
@@karlshaner2453 , exactly. I believe the Mound Builders were a Nephite colony, and that we don't have their history in the Book of Mormon. The original Hill Cumorah may well be in Nicaragua, where there is a very narrow neck of land and an ancient stone carving people just to the north.
@karlshaner24535 жыл бұрын
@@robertrosskopf4641 They know who they were and where. All I need know is that the record is true and beyond that trust in the Lord to reveal all things in due time. I also think it more likely the Meso-American model fits, but that is just my limited opinion.
@roncook90975 жыл бұрын
Actually there is more evidence for Meso America than for North America. There are two maps given by Joseph Smith that are now in the church library north of Temple Square that shows the travels of Moroni coming up from Mexico, through Utah dedicating temples lots on the way, across the midland to New York and back because he did not have enough gold and copper to make more plates. There is a line of defense near a village called Paradon, meaning big wall. It is written about in Alma 22:32 and in Helaman 4:7 that the line of defense was a days journey and then again a day and half journey for a Nephite. According parts of that wall is found near Paradon. There is also an area there where the land is divided by the sea on the western coast. The ismas of Tuantitepec is the narrow neck of land, just as an example.
@copisetic11044 жыл бұрын
Damascus steel has been around the Middle East for thousands of years, the technology migrated to other parts of the area. The problem with the Howlers in the 1800s, they were ignorant of these points of fact. When Lehi came to the new world they brought the technology with them and Labans sword with them. Nephi copied the sword as stated in the B.O.M.
@RdrB677 жыл бұрын
Ditto the cimeters and swords--they are abundant in the Hopewell sphere
@DIYWeekend7 жыл бұрын
Wayne May has a video which features a scimitar found within the Hopewell sphere of influence. The videos are quite long and he has numerous presentations so I'm not sure which video and at what time stamp, but I have seen it.
@RdrB677 жыл бұрын
Fair Mormon I understand that is the standard answer, but I have a hard time accepting anyone's opinion regarding anything's authenticity from that time period. There has to be more, of course, and I see that broad consistency more in the Heartland Theory than in any other. I also have nothing but respect for those scholars working on their own theories and points of interest. I don't dismiss them casually, and I would caution against doing the same with Heartland theorists.
@RdrB677 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the note. I do enjoy the stuff you post, here. I'll check 'em out.
@RdrB677 жыл бұрын
I should note, too, that while I really enjoy the stuff Wayne May and Rod Meldrum talk about, I'm more persuaded by what I would call "common sense" for lack of a better term. I hesitate to call it that because it implies ignorance in those who disagree. Not what I mean. I mean that with the mountains of information at our fingertips today, and with most of it being BS, one has to rely more and more, I think, on personal impressions and perceptions of the direction of the Spirit and their own instincts. Study is important and discussion equally so, but there are so many things in the BoM that, on its face, do not in any way match the MA model that I simply can't take it too seriously. Just reading the descriptions of the "Promised Land" it's pretty clear that it's not talking about Mexico or Columbia. Moreover, the references to missionaries being sent to the "Lamanites" in the D&C and historical documents was not related to them going to Mexico or Central America. Finally, so much of the scholarly water is polluted at the source. The early "experts" were largely self-proclaimed and self-authorized and were promoting a statist and tyrannical agenda in a political sense. Their philosophies were rooted in Darwinism and an attempt--as with other statists-- to translate those false ideas into a political and governing philosophy which included branding Indians as "savages" (and, I might add, the Mormons as "barbarians") which soothed whatever bruises their consciences may have sustained at the forced exodus of both groups. Again, I would not make light of your study, your opinions, and your insights. I am just starting from a different set of established beliefs, I think, than you and other MA model proponents are.
@RdrB677 жыл бұрын
Understood. All the best to you, and thanks, again, for all you do.
@stevent66142 жыл бұрын
This talk is absolutely correct, and so great that they too have understood the concept of time calculations and how their year was slightly less than our current year of 365 days, and not 360 days as was the "tun." That is such an important step in making sense out of the inscriptions. The only thing lacking is fixing the start date, which has been 3114 BC, but SHOULD be, 3642 BC. With this date in place, many of the other dates wilp start to make perfect sense.
@thehoneybadger80893 жыл бұрын
And then we stumble into King Tut's meteoric nickel steel dagger which predates the Book of Mormon by 700 years.
@thehoneybadger80893 жыл бұрын
@@mikkifrompreston You're only half right.
@RdrB677 жыл бұрын
The 600 year issue needs to be re-examined according the the reckoning of time in the Hopewell civilization, as Meso-America is NOT the Promised Land.
@robertrosskopf46416 жыл бұрын
That would be difficult, since the Hopewell left no books behind. The only books in all of the Americas were found in Mesoamerica.
@tonyjames1953 Жыл бұрын
Nice to hear a return of sorts to favorable commenting about Hugh Nibley. Have yet to read anything by moder-day LDS scholars that comes close to the works of Nibley.
@warrenlee5867 Жыл бұрын
Someone should compile a dated report containing the text of the CES Letter and All of the known Howlers.
@georgesweeney62046 жыл бұрын
Great lecture except for Meso-America. Why assume the Prophet and Book of Mormon have to be modified to make it work in Meso-America when it does fit North America? I.e. Swords. A blade made up of shark teeth is not in the likeness of the sword of Laban.
@briannorbury88402 жыл бұрын
Everything claimed in the Book of Mormon can never be proved wrong because it comes from God himself. This I have found in 47 years of study. What about the Hebrew Egyptian cultures in ancient America? New amazing evidence that many Indian tribes are of Jewish origin. Didn't you know that.? Sir.
@ddbrosnahan7 жыл бұрын
Judges 5:26 To "smite off" in KJV english/Hebrew does not mean "to cut off" but to "deal a death blow to." You cannot cut off head with nail to the temple.
@ddbrosnahan5 жыл бұрын
"smite off the head" does not mean to sever the head from the body. According to the example in Judges 5:26 Jael "smote off" or delt a death blow to the head of Sisera using a nail.
@johnroberts66956 жыл бұрын
This is a GREAT presentation. Any chance you guys can put it in a PDF format and make it available? That last part by Sorenson is especially great. I could sure use it in my missionary work!
@tansershinasi29327 жыл бұрын
Thank you Keep up the good work
@nancygallahue48925 жыл бұрын
It really isn't that important where the Nephites landed when they left Jerusalem, the most important thing to remember is that the purpose of the Book of Mormon was saved for us in the latter days as a second witness to the Bible that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world. I. myself , tend to believe the Nephites first landed in or near Columbia, South America. Forty years ago I found an article in the San Diego newspaper of a dominican monk by the name of Father Miguel Santa Maria Puerta, who claims on thirty years of his own research that the Native Americans are descendants of the Jews. He claims that Columbia's Chibcas natives built up two rival states. He found a stone with the inscription which read "Shivot Zion," meaning the rest of the people of Zion. In the Book of Mormon, there were two rival states, the Nephites and the Lamanites. The Nephites were destroyed latr because of iniquity which left the Lamanites in the land of America in which they are the ancestors of the Native Americans of today.
@copisetic11045 жыл бұрын
Damascus steel was well known throughout the Middle East, and has been around for thousands of years. It is perfectly reasonable that Lehi and his family knew about making steel with iron and carbon from the fire.
@jameseverett90374 жыл бұрын
Especially since Nephi mentioned mining and smelting ore to make tools for ship building.
@davidstout60516 жыл бұрын
I thought a howler was a nasty letter in Harry Potter 😁
@donnavaughn94096 жыл бұрын
Why do people mistrust the church LDS, because we don't know exactly where Lehi came to. Obviously they ended up in the upper US states, but as likely they could have started out in the lower Americas.
@briannorbury88404 жыл бұрын
Because of ignorance and deception by the adversary, like I was before I was baptized in Italy 46 years ago. Signs and revelations and profound and absolutely amazing factual knowledge follow the believers who are doers of the word.
@carmencolon80124 жыл бұрын
Question: If it all happened in North America, then who built Tiwanaku and Puma Punku in South America?
@boopus2214 жыл бұрын
There were people here before Lehi and his family got here.
@thomasandsheilarock54543 жыл бұрын
People scattered from the tower and/or other sheep. No one denies that there are other children of God that have been scattered
@thehoneybadger80893 жыл бұрын
Many of the structures in South America will eventually prove to be Antediluvian, as are many of the other mysterious and unexplainable stone structures all over the world.
@DavidNellTheHarbinger7 жыл бұрын
Love it!
@kleosa40026 жыл бұрын
The pattern seems to suggest that where questions continue to exist, the best course of action is to simply remain faithful until secular knowledge catches up with the truth of the Book of Mormon.
@3ksbeterthen15 жыл бұрын
I loved it but mesoAmerica to me makes no sense anymore
@jonathanfoote26214 жыл бұрын
I think the name Nephi possibly can from the Israel tribe Naphtali .
@DIYWeekend7 жыл бұрын
Did not take place in Meso-America. Joseph Smith said so.
@Seek-God-First6 жыл бұрын
Joseph Fielding Smith said it may have taken place in both areas North and South america.
@robertrosskopf46416 жыл бұрын
Actually he suspected Guatemala to be the home of Zarahemla, as recorded in the Times and Seasons while he was the editor.
@SmoothRuffian6 жыл бұрын
@@robertrosskopf4641 That was not Joseph's words. He didn't sign it, or sign off on it as editor.
@ryanclark39674 жыл бұрын
@@robertrosskopf4641 That would be strange seeing as how the Lord named the location of Zarahemla right in the D&C.
@robertrosskopf46416 жыл бұрын
Another volcanic eruption, even greater than the one near Puebla, is that of Apoyeque in Nicaragua, also dated to the time of the death of Christ. Here we have very visible evidence of the changes described in the Book of Mormon, as a large part of Nicaragua now lies under a huge inland lake, a lake that was tiny prior to the eruption. We also have a narrow neck of land - the narrowest of all the proposed necks of land, one that could be crossed in the time allotted. It wasn't just a major trade route, it was the only trade route between Peru and Mesoamerica, except for sea routes. To the east were all but impenetrable mountains. No one would prefer a route through those when this easy coastal plain was available.
@davidhepple94607 жыл бұрын
Why isn’t one of thr prophets, seers and revelator doing this?
@bradleyhowell41554 жыл бұрын
The symbol on the upper right bothers me. The Book of Mormon people were semitic and therefore had no symbols for vowels, why is there an Greek omega? Also, the eye symbol makes no sense since all alphabets derived from the Egyptian alphabet like Hebrew, demotic, and Assyrian had only very simplified versions of the original hieroglyphics.
@beefmaster4 Жыл бұрын
Never heard of the beheading of Shiz before, interesting
@jameswillett9237 жыл бұрын
Just cannot make this make any sense at all.
@johnaccurso38496 жыл бұрын
I would re-title this video _Grasping at Straws for the Book of Mormon_ .