Huge NERF for Leagues of Votann - Are They Still Good?

[@sadis72]

We all expected the rules/points update but not literally 5 days after a box came out with not even their whole model line released. Not a single 2k point game has been played with the full model line, so no one can tell how broken this book this book even is. Everyone should get a refund on their codex in the votann box set. This need is based on 0 data, this is just a over reaction by the community and GW, this is not a good thing. Only a 6 on a hit roll that auto wounds is treated as being a 6 for the wound roll when eye if the ancestors rule takes place. Fixed their codex for them I think a soft points update should look like this Iron master 100pts Grim 90pts Kahl 80 Uthar 160 Hearth warriors- 12pts ion guns are free Beserkers- 25pts Hearthgusrd- 42pts (For no Reroll wound) they’re 2 wound terminators with no invul. Pioneers- 100 Thunder Kin- no role so no one will take these even at original cost Land fortress 275-300 is fine

[@TinBearStudios]

Some really nice suggestions there, I really like your soft points update suggestions! You also make a solid point that not a single 2k point game has been played with the full model line yet, so it is surprising how quickly this was rolled out. The auto wound I think is a bandaid and will get another pass at some point (hopefully) soon, the auto wounding is still amazing but it's such an odd dynamic in that it works against some of the core abilities like Magna-rail and some Strats/other things. I think I'll end up splitting fire for now, throwing all my guns at a judgement target except those with special rules on 6 rolls, which will go into something else. Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment, really like your insights.

[@kamivalthrax1924]

The nerf was too much. Engineer should have gone up more. The tokens should still auto wound on nat 6. The melee guys went up by waaaayyy too much. Land fortress should have been 270 not 300 Termies should have only been up by 5. Heavies should have gone down. Massive synergy is ruined now

[@TinBearStudios]

Yeah these changes would have been nice, especially the Land Fortress as well as the heavies!

[@futurewinter777]

I’m excited to see more of the leagues of votanns models when they come out, and see if they are broken or balanced.

[@TinBearStudios]

I can't wait to get my hands on more! Very excited.

[@ireneparkin3360]

They went from released to op to nerfed in a week was a confusing sight to behold...

[@TinBearStudios]

It really was! Pretty surprising.

[@swiftdetecting]

there also very very slow so if u dont use the land fortress, then there easy betable

[@TinBearStudios]

Yeah the 5" move is definitely slow!

[@Theobeastieboys]

They could make them the worst army ever and I will still play them. I have already named my champion and Kâhl after my old dnd characters and have already planned their galactic domination.

[@TinBearStudios]

Yeah I'm exactly the same, I said before we saw any rule previews that I'm getting them regardless as I love the Dwarves and they really call to me as an army! I've nearly picked up Imperial Guard for a similar reason so many times, I love the theme that it's just the men and women of humankind throwing themselves against these ridiculous odds.

[@benlewis2130]

It still autowounds on 4+ but 6+ hits don't spill over so you can still autowound easily, but you can't use Ulthar's ability to auto-spill damage with his ability to give a roll of 6 for hitting or wounding so magna rail is still good but not God tier

[@TinBearStudios]

Yeah that makes sense and the autowound are still really potent, just lose a few abilities so you need to consider your targets a little more and if you want to risk rolling the wound on a target without a Judgement Token and potentially landing a 6 or having the easy autowound on a larger model which is still so powerful. I'm also not convinced this is the final iteration, probably just a quick bandaid from GW for the moment.

[@benlewis2130]

Yeah probably more changes coming

[@tomislavkipcic6421]

You can still use Uthar , his ability didn’t change

[@TinBearStudios]

I don't think it's his ability people are concerned about, it's the fact that if you wanted to use Uthar's ability on the hit roll for a unit which has any judgement tokens on it at all then it will trigger the judgement token which will auto wound but then that auto wound won't cound as a 6 and so you don't get the ability on say the Magna-rail Rifles to overspill the damage. It was "god tier" before as Ben was saying because we could reliably use Uthar's ability on the hit roll for an enemy unit which has a judgement token on it, which would then count as an auto wound 6 roll which would then trigger the special ability - so a Magna-rail Rifle would overspill. You can still use Uthar's ability and do similar cool stuff of course, let's say you target a unit with no judgement tokens on it and get the hit roll, you just use his ability to get the unmodiifed 6 on the would roll. It's just odd as an interaction where you're almost avoiding doing things like his ability now on units with judgement tokens.

[@jackgarison]

I think people miss it says if a 4+ or 5+ hit it’s an auto wound. 6 are auto hits/wounds. I think the points where ok maybe readjusted later. The note didn’t make a lot of sense to me.

[@zadakielfrostaxt1825]

Yes they are still Good they aktuell one of the Strongest Army in the Game

[@TinBearStudios]

I'm excited to finish building mine and try them out 😊

[@lesdestruques8715]

So no one actually made the calculations on the Leagues actually getting hit... Just made five games usins harlequins, Aeldary, CSM iron warriors, Tau and Orks... Four out of the five games so many of the little buggers were dead it was GG at turn two.... ypu yup, op for sure... if they are in optimal range with full cps skills grudge tokens etc.... laughable, the kneejerk reaction of the community is laughable!!!

[@TinBearStudios]

Yeah things definitely happened fast!

[@finnewar]

Leagues of votan is a mad army now. i will not buy warhammer 40k 10th edition.

[@TinBearStudios]

Yeah it’s a bit crazy!

[@jaychrist4437]

People who say these kind of things are usually people who aren't very good at the game, which is the majority of 40k players. It's ok, but annoying that people who are not very tactical get to decide the power level of an army. Kinda sad

[@finnewar]

Warhammer 40k has bad rules.

[@Fpsdood]

doubt you play so it doesnt effect you

[@TinBearStudios]

I manage to get a game in most weeks