HUGE TORPEDO AND INSURANCE CHANGES | STAR CITIZEN 4.0

[@Space-Tech]

So what do you think of the new changes to the cost and what do you think the insurance should cover today and in the future? Join the discord here! discord.com/invite/g6D2NsjZx2

[@hurtfixer_]

I use my Polaris for Salvaging with my Vulture and for Hauling with its cargo hold 500 scu

[@Bob-jy6hm]

Great video, particularly the part highlighting the contradiction of releasing the Polaris and making its only valid targets immune to torps. 1. I agree that the new changes to the costs are bad and I'd add this change to the pile of evidence that the devs are out of touch with the bug ridden live experience. 2. Insurance today should remain unchanged. In the (far) future when stuff works (enough) they can pump the price & remove them from claims.

[@KeeperOfDGroove]

highest level of insurance should cover everything, cheapest just lets ya buy a replacement, all others has some varying degree of ship and ship+component replacements

[@KeeperOfDGroove]

@@Bob-jy6hm i agree with ya there, don't touch insurance till we are relatively bug free from random ship go BOOM! bugs

[@tabmaster4457]

I think it would be better to have the s10 torps at 200k a piece at most. It would still make the ship more of a drain given the economy and would take under 6 million to replenish all of them. Given that this doesn't factor the fuel, s6 guns, and repair costs in would say that's a fair estimate. 15 million would make sense on a Javelin in terms of operating cost. We are talking about an entry level capital ship. The s6 ballistic are really designed for taking out PDC/turrets because they punch through the shields, though I would say the precision aiming will be optimized more. I'm interested to see the prices they raise on ballistic ammunition.

[@LordCritish]

"Let's make missiles and torpedoes super dirt cheap!" "Now let's make missiles and torpedoes insanely expensive!" ^ CIG's idea of balance.

[@jugganaut33]

This is how you balance a game. The game is still in alpha. Seeing what meta develops ahead of release based on each polarity means they can range and place the economy properly. The money is imaginary. It’s wiped regularly. Why are you mad?

[@geofftuck8979]

​@@jugganaut33agree, balancing takes time

[@pawe6199]

I can't wait to see when CIG realizes how they shot themselves in a foot by selling capital ships. When caps are going to be sustainable only by large groups of players (orgs) we are going to see sales going down drastically. Why? Because those Polarises, Idrises, BMMe or 890s are not sold to groups of players, they are sold to individuals. And many of them wish to run them solo with NPC / Blades with occasional grouping.

[@seanwarren9357]

If i have a choice to hire a captain with ai vs a human org, i like the idea of a different premium. Stratification is a good thing. That said, you're absolutely right and I think it enriches the game to provide different playstyles, with the cap on ability lying in the hand if the players. Time will tell, but until we get there, there is alot for us to do, finally, which is pretty cool.

[@baconbliss4796]

depends on the level of "skill" they give the ai might be a good idea to make them bad shots so they do more than nothing and sometimes they help fine and if you go against other big ships your not missing out on to much but also makes it easy to run or fight back in smaller ships then unless the ship has a ridiculous amount of turrets or you fly in front of the guns you are not getting blindsided by the whales but they still have a somewhat effective ship but if they go to far in either direction with how good the ai is it could be troublesome

[@baconbliss4796]

@@seanwarren9357 yeah but we are gamers we don't do human interactions lol

[@Glathgrundel]

I had misunderstood their position. I thought that the insurance would replace all missiles EXCEPT those that had been fired. That we lose ALL ordinance, whether used or not is insane.

[@Space-Tech]

We're just not ready for that yet imo, too many ways to get screwed

[@Majectics]

That is the way the system was intended to work for live and the way it did during wave 1 EPTU. You get all ordanace back on a claim except for the ones you actually fired. I don't even think that would've been a bad change if they'd not increased the prices this drastically or at all. Even 20k per torp hurt enough as it stands in the current economy with an ERP bounty paying 25k AUEC. It would've cut back on insurance fraud and make people actually consider whether to use their ordanance or not without bankrupting player every time they decide to actually use a torp, missile, bomb, etc. In my opinion they've reverted the wrong part of the system. Should have not given back used ordanance on a claim but reverted the prices...

[@greywulf31]

It would be wrong not to return an insured ship back to the way it was. That was the original deal with LTI insurance that people worked towards since Star Citizen began years ago. That fact that they are even discussing taking that purchased stock load outs away now or in the future is ridiculous. Cig created this mess and now can't figure out what to do and want other people to pay for their mistakes in judgement.

[@thezipper359]

You forgot to mention that you can not restock ammo and countermeshers whitout restocking missiles to so for ships that want to run balistics you will be forced to restock missiles aswell when resuplying.

[@vik12D]

Torpedoes are insanely easy to shoot down with a turret or fighter and are 1100 percent for a PDC.Chris Roberts also said that the ships would be expensive, you wouldn't make money, but it wouldn't be cost prohibitive. You could still use it, you could crew it with NPC...they seem more interested in scooping up millions of dollars while ignoring what they promised.

[@mikelowrey1930]

Really good vid! Thanks.

[@Space-Tech]

Appreciate the kind words!

[@lameisthenewcool5277]

all the missile and torp prices should be about 1/10th imo 1.4 million is plenty expensive enough

[@Space-Tech]

1000%

[@bigarmydave]

I'm a solo player and my Polaris is pretty much useless to me......Really disapointing.

[@geofftuck8979]

Try ROC-DS Mining, or using it as a storage point for Vulture salvaging, or even a Mobile FOB hospital for Merncenary missions, I find lots of uses for the Polaris.

[@Stormyy6310]

Do not be mistaken this change is also very restrictive on small ships, now to use 1s3 missiles it costs you 7.8K and to use 8 s1 missiles it costs about 20K, these prices are insane, remember that in those ships you're expected to do contracts that reward you less than 10K as in completing one of the hardest bounty levels doesn't even repay for a full missile load on a small ship and you're fighting sub-capital sized ships with escorts or medium-large ships with escorts, this is pure insanity, the devs don't play the game if they think this is a "fair" balance change, already paying 200K for almost all torpedoes after doing the save stanton event is already making you lose money as a Polaris user and they think "nah 500K for ONE torpedo is perfectly balanced"

[@Nianfur]

There is a way to balance torps. Leave the current torp easily countered to PDC's. Then have armour and shielded torps that do drastically reduced damage but have a high chance of surviving a PDC.

[@jzodieru118]

Well not only that but you’re supposed to use fighters to disable the PDCs and then fire torps. They were clear this isn’t supposed to be sent out alone

[@Nianfur]

@jzodieru118 You say that. But then the Idris can almost one shot a Polaris with it's main gun. Where is the need for fighters in this situation?

[@jzodieru118]

@ yeah but that has nothing to do with the torpedos. The torpedoes work fine but the ship isn’t designed or intended to go in alone to handle a larger threat you need the support crew. Whether or not tho idris is properly balanced with its firepower or the Polaris is properly armored is a different subject

[@Nianfur]

@jzodieru118 Em no. The Polaris is the intended threat to an Idris. It's the predator in this fight.

[@Takeoverartist1987]

Not to mention the idris has over 6 million health. Meaning even if you have all pdc destroyed. Shields completely down. Would take over 10 torps. They nerfed the Polaris the moment the released it

[@k0mm4nd3r_k3n]

The intention, as ive understood for a few years, is that scanning/targeting is dependent of more data game play systems coming into the game, which is it's self dependent on server technology being ready before its worth building. Then, ship computer power will affect an ai/blade turreting competence too.

[@Mannskas]

One of the issues I see is also the durability of parts of Polaris like the bespoke guns almost always falling off in combat or the engines ( usually due to ramming or shields getting ignored), same goes for torps... them being tankier would fix it, the 500k doesn't make sense right now because they simply are destroyed too easily, lets say the idris didnt shoot them down, it still takes a couple so with 400k payout wasting 5-7 torps wouldn't really make it even worth bringing a polaris

[@Minatox4th]

many of my friends have already checked selling Tops in 4.0 they will not allow you to sell any torps that are stock

[@gravy9280]

I can see a pirate market for Torps though. Pirate groups take out (pre-emptively salvage) a Polaris, then offer the salvaged torps at a fraction of the half mil.

[@TheFriedIndustry]

It is probable that they are keeping insurance pliable and will piece it out to maximize profits. Some, like myself, only use LTI, and they know exactly how to capitalize on that. For example, only being able to buy one LTI Intrepid Game Package per account. Thanks for your thoughts, "the Polaris is already starved for content" and "players will optimize the fun out of the game" really encapsulates where the swing range of the pendulum of the experience is, at the moment.

[@Banzai51]

They are piling on more layers to insurance explicitly to negate LTI.

[@spacecowboy4804]

Yep. Waited for years and years for the Polaris. Now that its out, I cant stand flying it bc torps have been nerfed into oblivion. The only way to use the Polaris effectively is by not using it as intended. I really wish CIG would get their act together.

[@chawkes70]

lol we use our Polaris all the time and not just for combat missions. It makes a great base ship for several different activities for a group of people.

[@mrpuck68]

How does the hammerhead not have PDC turrets?

[@azntactical4884]

They should have missions that pay in the millions, but you have to use a certain tier of ship.

[@Maxxmentum]

Class high level weapons as mil tech, no sell or add a trip in person to the admin to get the 4 forms that need approval by 3 different committees. 😅 Then you can sell a small number

[@FishOnPC]

I still think warranty and insurance could have been super simplified by just renaming LTI to LTW - warranty you get your item back - insurance typically you get $ back

[@Conner_2100]

Any real money ship has "LTW" but not LTI, so you would need to purchase an in game insurance to reclaim non LTI ships once the timer expires.

[@germfreepizzawi1839]

As an owner of a polaris, the balance is you need a crew and that crew is going to be difficult to come by for most players unless it is NPC crewing. Even then, it will cost you a lot of money to maintain that ai crew and you are relying on their automated targeting systems to function. On top of that, the cost to repair a damaged Polaris from what I experienced with just the main forward turret down and the forward hull damaged, it cost 1.5 million. To rearm the 15 or so torpedoes I fired, cost me about 200k. I would say that is pretty balanced. But remember, you are not meant to be able to take these ships down with a single fighter, just how it needs a crew to run, enemies need to have better numbers and know how to use tactics. This is not a cod match, complaining about someone having a bigger better ship that can kill you when you stupidly try to shoot it down with just 3 fighters is absolutely idiotic. Because if I lay 1k for a ship that needs a crew of at least 12 to run, I don’t expect it to be an easy target for people. Especially once engineering and the new fire system is in game. Because that means the ship is going to require a whole lot more to stay afloat, it cannot be one manned and will at the very base need 3 people to even be moderately functional, that means no turret operators. Because once shields go down, ballistic weapons can damage the internal modules and with ease have it go dead in the water if they already know where to aim. It is not going to be an invincible ship to kill once 4.0 drops and as stuff continues on. It just requires the enemy to have the numbers and knowledge before going up against it.

[@alexdafreguesia]

Great point

[@manualmonster]

I think torps should detonate if destroyed en route to their target. They should do damage to their target based on proximity, so even if you don't land a direct hit, your torp is still putting in some work. This should include structures on the outside of the target ship, like PDC cannons and turrets, that might be in the way of the blast. They should have all missiles do this, actually.

[@Stormyy6310]

they already do detonate and cause damage though ? It's already in the game

[@manualmonster]

@Stormyy6310 Do they really? I thought they were just useless. Maaaybe they should increase that damage, since it's so negligible I don't even notice it.

[@Space-Tech]

Yeah it's just usually detonated far enough from the enemy ship that it does basically no damage. With the size 10s at least I'd appreciate a little bit more splash

[@Stormyy6310]

@@manualmonster The damage they do on explosion is very high, the problem you're having most likely is that none of this damage ever reaches the ship that's being targeted by the torpedo since they shoot down the torp far before it gets anywhere close to being able to deal damage. But torpedoes do explode and do deal a ton of damage on explosion, for example when I and a couple of my buddies a week ago were fighting the Idris, we tried to dumb fire a torpedo close enough to it but the Idris' turrets actually shot down the torpedo as we were still launching it which caused the front of our Polaris to go red instantly

[@hamitron]

I dunno why they don't scale prices according to average launch rate. As servers get more stable, they will then be increased till the game gets to that stable state.

[@rewerker566]

Well - they wanted a real economy…. Maybe they should allow reclaim levels. 1 Full reclaim quarterly. Another idea is to reduce the number of torpedoes available overall. Hopefully CIG will figure this out.

[@22nicodemis]

Once people can create their own with blueprints and mining etc then I could see that price being a baseline so people could sell there own home made torps for 200-300 or whatever vs being raked over coals at a space station. I believe that's what they have in mind for the long but didn't relay that when they just hiked prices and said nope for reclaiming.

[@ddavis5442]

Heres the thing.... they shouldn't be puting an UEC sink on ammunition of any type. The 3.24 prices for torpedos and missiles were perfect... here's why: Different Capital ships (among other ships) will use ammunition that doesn't need to be replenished (think Idris k, Ion, BMM... etc) there is no ballance in that. Where should the money come from? Repair and refuel ONLY. That way each ship is ballanced in running cost, and ships like the Polaris isn't limited using its main damage dealer (anymore then it already is). And repair and refuel both will have gameplay ways to minimize cost in the near future where ammunition creation is very far off.

[@mrpeterpan07]

Simple fix make it so insurance doesn't replace missiles and torps if the owner or a friend of the owner destroys the ship

[@chaosmedia3275]

It would be better if insurance covered unused torps and missiles...

[@xiuhtezcatl8161]

thx

[@baconbliss4796]

idk maybe make the game keep track of your torpedo and missile count when your ship is destroyed or you die etc so you net neutral the torps not net positive or negative sure the players will complain but you don't loose ridiculous amounts on ammo unless you use it, that way you also can't sit there with an infinite money glitch/exploit via insurance

[@IvannaNukya]

So even if you spend thousands of dollars on these ships you want to fly, the cost to maintain them prevents you from enjoying the ship long term unless you play with an entire org. CIG just keeps making horrible decisions that scare off casual players.

[@adrianbarreto4225]

Its all about speed man

[@wisewasabi]

I think they are on the right path, yes it sux you can’t play with an endgame ship when there is no endgame. You will just need to wait and use it as a cargo ship.

[@QBITASSASSIN]

I do believe that calming your ship shouldn't restock the ammo. If you are looking for a more realistic view. But as of right now. I don't think it's fair to the player with all the other bugs. Just yesterday when playing I just randomly died by opening my inventory after spawning in.

[@Space-Tech]

100% eventually the free torps needs to end, I just feel like now was too soon

[@DaxBane-x5e]

Allow orgs to build torps in factories they own .

[@GARfearfak]

i dont think that the price of a polaris torp should exceed the price of an aurora. afterall, if you taking the technology that makes the aurora is cheaper than building the guidance and propulsion of a s 10 topedo, one could just use the thrusters and flgiht controlls of an aurora, slot and the explosives in the same chassis they use to build the size 10 torps and send of an alternate size 10 torp for a fraction of the price. or one could extend the chassis, include the quantum drive and build a still cheaper s 10 torpedo that was independantly quantum capable, but had to be launched out of the cargo doors.

[@jimrussell4062]

It doesn't make sense... now... in "alpha" but neither do most things because it's just too buggy. The IDEA of high priced torpedoes of course is a very GOOD one because they should be as they are in "real life." The equivalent is a million dollar cruise missile. They're not supposed to be cheap, and you're not going to use them much. The Polaris isn't just "a torpedo ship." That's a secondary role in the rare fleet battle. It's role is a patrol ship for militias to deal with pirates, criminals, search and rescue, medical emergencies, disaster relief, reconnaissance, transport, etc. It's more like a Coast Guard cutter. So the torpedo thing isn't really a big deal. It could have NO torpedoes and only load them in the event of war (during events) when the game would provide them to you for specific missions. If you're using torpedoes at this point, it's for goofing off and not because you need to. The PDCs are meant to target missiles and fighters (like real life) but again, taking a cue from real life..while they are VERY effective (at short range) they have LIMITED AMMO, like any ballistics. So yes, they are balanced in that way. They can stop one salvo coming in or a few, but each station should only get 3-5 shots and then it's out of ammo. Over time you just run them out of ammo. That's how it works. As far as spawning ships, they should probably spawn basically "empty" like real life ships, planes and trucks to. You don't build a warship or airplane with missiles/bombs on it. You built it.... then take it to get it loaded out. It'd be another deterrent against "wasting" ships in game. Now again, this is problematic when ships randomly explode but in the end game when the game is actually NOT crashing every 30 minutes it should be part of the process. You spawn a bare hull with basic stock components and any upgrades and weapons you have to add yourself. Or, you could pay more for it (like haulers can pay to have their cargo loaded automatically vs manually for free)

[@MagnustheRad]

Tag the items/ammo/torps that spawn with ships as (none tradeble by owner/party members)

[@SkyForceOne2]

doesnt do anything, just get a friend outside of your party to sell them??

[@satanielgaming]

Treat torpedoes like ships - they have a Time To Disable and are harder to destroy. Damaging them reduces their yield (maybe by up to 60%) and affects their trajectory (due to no thrusters/tracking - turn into broken dumbfire torpedoes basically). Torpedoes need to be useful. Dont do this to my baby..

[@moriyokiri3229]

They work when used as intended. Go back and watch the citizencon talk about capital ship combat. You’re supposed to disable the layers of defense first.

[@louhodo5761]

The price of missiles, weapons and components increase is fine. CIG needs to get the economy balanced sooner than later.

[@Stormyy6310]

there is absolutely nothing balanced about this change, any sane dev would make a complete economy rework and not just a partial economy change that conveniently only impact negatively the player, no matter how you spin it it's again another case of CIG having no idea what they're doing

[@updrivedownthrow4557]

It's not fine! First of all it's not the time to make those changes. As long as we have so many bugs that can affect gameplay Loops in a way that they make you spend in game currency, all it Archives is making even more players quite the game. Those player's are needed though financially and to get the game done without so many game breaking bug's! I quit the game because I lost so much money due to bugs while mining that I quit the game. Because of buggy servers. So CIG should get their stuff straight and should do Final Version things towards the end

[@louhodo5761]

@updrivedownthrow4557 when ships didn't spawn with missiles or torps after claim i would have agreed with you. But now that they do, no it's fine. I did the math to equip my Cutlass Black the way I like it would run me 494k auec. That is without missiles. 686k auec with missiles. My Redeemer will be over 1.2mil. And the Taurus 800k. I know I can easily with the new payouts get that in about 6wks playong 2hrs every other day.

[@updrivedownthrow4557]

@@louhodo5761 Dude we're you listening? I said losing money with bugs and I'm not talking about claim's! If you buy new components for your ship and 3 new mining head's and your low on fund's and then your ship explodes during mining because of extremely bad servers and this happens a few times in a row you will have simply no money left to do it again your stranded and can't do your game loop anymore!

[@louhodo5761]

​@updrivedownthrow4557 perhaps you are not familiar with Eve Online. Rule #1 Don't fly what you can't afford to replace. Rule #2 Undocking is consent to PVP, HTFU. Rule #3 Trust no one.

[@RN1441]

That CIG is trying to balance the game when we're still held hostage by fundamental and frequent bugs in year 13 is the real problem. I'm not sure how they're allocating their effort over there but they are somehow turning 'fast, good, cheap choose two' into 'extremely delayed, buggy as heck, and nearly a billion dollars spent'.

[@Banzai51]

They rarely invest in squashing bugs and game stability because iT's An AlPhA! But they are hellbent on putting in all the negatives (time and aUEC sinks, death of a spaceman, etc) before settling on the positives. Lo and behold, it causes massive problems that disincentivizes players from playing the game. CIG doesn't remotely game out their changes to see how it will work.

[@magosryzak7477]

Ngl, I am firmly on the side of ordinance should not be restocked automatically on claim, but I also hate missile spam with firebirds, shrikes, etc. A pvp problem yes, but it would also mean an economy for missiles would emerge as salvage groups could make a killing on selling missiles looted from wrecks across the verse. But no, we are left with this and now Polarii will be abandoned en mass every time torps are used because it's more convenient.

[@MikeP2510]

If the torps actually hit the target I'd be OK with the price but at the moment your better off just pissing your money up a wall.

[@Space-Tech]

Yeah it just isn't nearly reliable enough

[@kaltenp7870]

just make it so you cant sell size 10 torps atm

[@Civilunit]

Look the first thing that CIG needs to correct is needing to claim your ship in the first place by making any 'lost' ship return to the hangar within an hour. They did this awhile ago as cargo ships kept getting lost after a server 30k, it needs to come back. if a ship is not flagged as destroyed, it return to the hangar. That gets rid of like 40-50% of claims right there which are server relaxed. Second if they need to come up with a way to handle collision damage, which results in allot of needless exploding. Cargo boxes, vehicles and the like, just turn off the collision damage. Maybe they can just allow collision damage for the item instead of the ship, I don't know. The game is in alpha but there are allot of stupid rules in place that are forcing us to smash the claim ship button when we did not get the ship destroyed. We all want CIG to make a polished and stable game but there is no reason to put the cart before the horse and making the game enforce rules for 'balance' when its not ready for them makes the game not fun to play and if its not fun, whats the point?

[@UAF_ViVi]

CIG need to get their priorities right. The number one is to fix their game instead of worrying about all this balance stuff. People will quit if they lose millions of aUEC due to bugs.

[@Maverick966]

Maybe you don't realize this is not a game yet, it is just a playable alpha, they need to introduce such things to start to balance the economy

[@OneTomato]

Literally what the guy above said Also, this stuff is work at the same time, two different teams

[@bossco8264]

I agree with the revert regarding the insurance claims too. The game and economy were not stable enough for such a change. Adding to this I think there is something to consider. If we can step away from gameplay and talk about trust and respecting people who have already made pledges. #1 LTI insurance, is it fair to take peoples money and change the rules? #2 Is it fair to take peoples money $185 Firebird upto $950 Polaris. Then increase the running costs to mission reward ratio so someone who pledge cannot use what they bought? After you have their money? Make the balance changes but dont break the trust of people who already made a pledge.

[@Lampislife]

Till we can craft our own munitions, it should not cost more than 1 mil total.

[@gravy9280]

Is anyone really surprised at the ham-fisted "balance" attempt? Look at the Redeemer and Corsair, and any of number of other "balance" changes, and there's not just a pattern, but a culture.

[@KeeperOfDGroove]

14 million to fully restock a ship that can currently be taken out by a small ship ramming into it at the speed of Mach "F U" not to mention potential in game bugs where you lose your ship for no better reason than just sitting there. I can understand Torpedoes being more expensive, but 14 million is FAR too expensive, a couple million is not unreasonable of a time sink to get the polaris restocked in my opinion, but right now I don't know how long it will take to get 14 million to restock a Polaris. If it takes a whole day to get a ship ready then its a ship that punishes you for just playing the game. Missles honestly should never have gone up so much in price seeing as how they have limitations and as effective as they can be when they hit, they can just as easily miss. Now I've seen the reward pay outs on missions in the EPTU and those are just he beginning missions, I will have to see what the end game missions will pay out before I finalize all my thoughts on this subject but as it stands, right now the change to missles and torps seems a bit too heavy handed.

[@frogger2011ify]

Taken out by a small ship ramming? I literally rammed 16 ships with it to clear one of the save Stanton missions

[@Stormyy6310]

@@frogger2011ify Yes, you can easily destroy a Polaris by ramming it with any ship, you met braindead npcs and you rammed into them, youy've always been able to survive that, it's not the same as a player ramming you at 1000m/s

[@KeeperOfDGroove]

@@frogger2011ify i've had several hit me and i lived, then i've had one hit me and i went BOOM!

[@davewills6121]

Not at all, groups/Orgs have Cost Of Ownership sorted, it will not be an issue at all, encourages sensible, meaningful gameplay. Like everything there is a cost. Luv the rebalancing

[@68Lima]

Maybe they should be dirt cheap in the patches they don't work and crazy expensive in patches they actually do anything lol.

[@ADEM-JASHARI]

Egal was die Torpedos kosten. Wichtig ist dass die Einnahmen bei den Missionen entsprechend sind. Sprich man muss die Möglichkeit bekommen genügend UEC zu verdienen um ein finanzielles Polster aufzubauen. Nach rrr sollte die hälfte der Einnahmen noch auf dem Konto übrig sein. Weniger als das dürfte es sehr schwierig bis unmöglich werden. Bankrott ist vorprogrammiert.

[@Space-Tech]

Ich stimme zu, das Scheitern einiger Missionen sollte dich nicht einfach bankrott machen

[@FNLastname]

currently, there is no real economy in the game. you have missions to do to get a small income, and item you can buy from a vendor to use up that income. trade and selling materials are not really a big income, since it takes about the same time to make the same earnings per hour. the highest income is from selling illegal stuff with no repercussion for doing so. personally, i think CIG should make ammo expensive, but effective. making most opt for lasers. as for balance for missiles, i think they just need to do away with the 'missile' and 'torpedo' categories. they are functionally the same thing. a long phalic device with a explosive tip that goes fast at a target. what they need to do is change from a single payload type, to a modular payload type; EMP, High Explosive, Kinetic, etc. kinetic missile types don't contain any explosives and act like throwing a really big bullet at a target, they deal high penetration damage to both shields and armor, but are cheaper and more resilient to PDC's, where they cant be destroyed by them, requiring a pilot to dodge. the EMP does high damage in the form of power drain, disabling some systems near the area of collision, including shield emitters, PDC's, turrets, lights, etc. to balance this out, it does little physical damage, and can easily be disabled, but not destroyed by PDC's and the cost for the missile is very high. the middle ground would be the traditional high explosive missile dealing blast or concussive damage to shields and armor, and causing a knock down force to be applied to the inside of ships, potentially damaging nearby components and injuring meatbags. the weakness for these weapons are that they can be detonated by PDC's prior to impact. tracking systems for the missiles should be the same as they have it. but add in a new propulsion system for missiles. fast and maneuverable but expensive, slow and maneuverable and less expensive, or fast and not maneuverable and cheap. then you add new rails or tubes to launch these missile systems. giving people more options to mount missiles at the cost of weight to their ship. we should be able to basically duck tape a size 10 missile to the underside of a gladius and fire it at a big target, at the cost of speed and maneuverability of the ship. think of it as 'build a missile' workshop you fly too, to rearm missiles. with these options, you can choose how effective you want your missiles to be against different targets. and allow for a new range of game play where you select the correct missiles to be loaded. similar to loading tank rounds. with these options, you can now have cheap missiles to confuse PDC's while you fire one or two super effective missiles to deal with a target. and ofc, smaller missiles should be more effective against smaller targets, and bigger ones are more effective for bigger targets. when i say targets, i am talking about components on a ship, rather then the current place holder 'hit point pool' each ship has. as for it being costly to fire missiles, well yeah, all missiles should be expensive. they need to be hyper effective with a proportional cost. that cost alone should be what keeps people from just spam firing missiles. what CIG needs to do, is make cannons the preferred big ship weapon, and smaller caliber weapon systems more preferred against fighters and softer targets. the real issue, is the fact that damage per second, trumps damage per hit because there is no armor resilience threshold. imagine a tank against 500 people with hand guns. currently, the 500 handguns can kill a tank faster then the tank can kill 500 people. but if they factored in that hand guns do no damage to tanks, the tank can essentially kill until it runs out of ammo or fuel. this is the current issue with star citizen. TL/DR: wait for CIG to add a real player economy and physicalized damage before asking them to waste time balancing something that will be replaced/removed.

[@akrozarkx7996]

fire a T10 torp must be something... Right now is realy hard to balanced economy... but they need to make that realy expensive other way... that gona be Star Polaris in 4.0 (i say that and i have a Polaris)... but imagine 3 -4 Polaris who can shoot at will... The ship even without torp still fun to play... The game is just not ready to that kind of torp.... And yes shoot the Idriss wave 3 was a pain in the ass... but its because of lag and desync imo

[@alandab]

It's a CAPITAL SHIP!!! It's supposed to be OP! WTF?!

[@dr.warner2288]

torpedo's should at least be armored and simply unable to lock on to smaller ships

[@dr.warner2288]

that way, bigger ships are still threatened but fighters and aurora's // newer players. OR veterans won't be as concerned about being one shot

[@Auldus]

Very bold move to take torps fron the polaris upon destruction when hangar elevators alone can destroy a ship. Why are they making these changes when the game functions 10% of the time. 99% of my deaths are lag, falling through ekevators or geometry killing me. Yet you want us to pay for ordinance every time we claim our ships.

[@PsyEm-p1j]

It’s a challenge but it’s also not a complete game, if you can call it a game yet at all? I’ve been around long enough to see and hear all the knee jerk reactions to this but these things always change or make better sense after time. I do wonder if E War ships like the Sentinel will become more of a thing, running in passed Cap Ships and temporarily shutting down PDC’s for a missile shot window of opportunity 🤔

[@turlok6591]

En fait vous voulez une corvette capitale hyper armée, super blindé, et des munitions pas cher ???... 1 petit café avec ça ?🤣

[@EmberHarvestRaven]

I agree with all your points here. It’s a good change, but the game is not ready for it yet.

[@hemisatellite6168]

capital ship's are military ships and the military is funded by taxing the people. military ship's as a rule do not make money they operate at a negative cost due to there role. so in all reality operating a military capital ship should end up costing more than what you make. it should require large group's/orgs player's to all help fund the operation of these ships as they are a money drain to operate to begin with.

[@Marvin315]

Balance? Just block pvp - leave risk areas and thats all.. block friendly fire and you have a balance xD

[@MikeB-ng3ol]

If everything costs more than the reward of using, why play?

[@Space-Tech]

I believe eventually capital combat is meant to be primarily a money sink. So you'd need other ways to make money, then combat is how'd you'd spend that money (and secure yourself other ways to make money again)

[@MikeB-ng3ol]

@@Space-Tech It's not exclusive to capital combat, it's all combat. The game is going to become 1 part industry simulator, 2 parts trucking simulator.

[@twelvewingproductions7508]

0:54 I disagree. What we hadn't seen before is a ship that honored the amount of time it took to actually crew it. What CIG did was to remove the era of the one shot Hammerhead. Now that ships can actually take a beating... people are actually using them as designed. IMHO CIG should make it so ships NEVER explode. And yes.. I do mean NEVER. They can bring back ships exploding later... but for now... they should NEVER explode. They should go into a destroyed state depending on the type of damage... but not explode. It's easy enough to bring that back later in a more measured way.

[@Space-Tech]

I do belive the intention is to reduce ship destruction across the board, which I completely agree should be the goal. Opens up a lot more gameplay

[@aso6437]

Simply make torpedoes UN-sellable.. nothing to gain, and also my them impossible to remove from the ship.

[@DevilbyMoonlight]

it will make using torps uneconomically viable

[@Haedryan]

just because you have the ability to try and make news or content does not mean you should, unless you plan to work for fox and need a portfolio

[@vegas6908]

The only reason CIG is adding insane prices to torpedos is because players are killing other players with torpedos for no reason at all. CIG is trying to figure out a way to correct this problem.

[@KaribdusBG]

Real torpedos cost of 500-700k dollars

[@Terran0va_Plays]

The Polaris is a salvage carrier with great defense. That’s all. Combat is not worth it in this ship lol

[@davewills6121]

''Lol'' what are you 5?, your an adult, comment like one.

[@Terran0va_Plays]

@ what a weirdo 😂 life is so rough you gotta fish for validation through putting ppl down in youtube comments. Get a life David

[@Chermal]

simple fix is to just make it so the torps in the ship when claimed are the same as when it was lost, and remove the ability remove torps from ships.

[@rockheart3645]

Don't spend money.. They know they can't build it and want it to die.. 790mio laughing to the bank...

[@General.Falcon]

I really don't care. In this stadium of the development you actually can't discuss regarding some subject, because everything keeps on changing, is being nerfed, prices aren't even solid from patch after patch. First of all, after each patch we start with an X amount of aUEC. Second, earning aUEC in the verse is very easy, but not for the fast leveling nerd who will be ready fast in every game I think of course... 😂 Third, to discuss the most subjects regarding prices, lti, gear, system, it seems "everything", I think it will be useless. Speculations after speculations and still nothing happening in the verse... So, I don't care... We'll see

[@siriusscepter]

CIG is ruining the game

[@moriyokiri3229]

Then go play a different game

[@Stormyy6310]

​@@moriyokiri3229 imagine defending your game by telling the already pretty limited community to stop playing because you think they "shouldn't complain", what a ridiculous notion

[@DJLoveNoise]

Big facts!!!

[@updrivedownthrow4557]

He is right Men the people defending the game are so good at it if everyone would follow their statement the game would be dead before it's finished

[@henkolsonpietersen2242]

@Stormyy6310 well said

[@Gametester]

for what? the torpedos are useless

[@Mordekaiserize]

I love how everyone is freaking out about all this but everyone who thinks this game should be balanced… ITS ALPHA this where where we find balance

[@ToitleInTime]

These guys are only good at taking things away from players

[@doubledigital_]

Insurance fraud is such a bs statement to make in this game anyways.. The onlyyyy people who care about money in this game are SCRUBS or Chinese gold farmers who have nothing better to do .. LOL

[@artax3576]

Did the thought that they want us to craft the torpedoes cross your mind? This is simply upper limit set by CIG. The price of torpedo will be based on resources value plus players effort and profit

[@Stormyy6310]

ah yes, the crafting system which they don't even have plans for yet and barely even have concepts of a plan for, that is at least 5 years away. The issue here is that the new price of torpedoes is insane and there is absolutely nothing that justifies it

[@CalabiYau-s7f]

CIG lies.

[@davewills6121]

Simple answer: ''if you cant afford them, you dont need them''. Cost Of Ownership is finally being fully realised, Stop-Gaps being removed, and the economy being rebalanced to reflect worthwhile gameplay and meaningful progression. Choice is now being given value, fleets are also going to reflect gameplay and bothe Solo/Group play. So if you want to go aimlessly dumbfiring torps and missles.....please do. CIG knows that some cant help themselves, the : ''fox and the Scorpion'' mindset will gleem valuable data mining, hence.....rebalancing. My game is growing up quickly, and No, they'll be No Insurance Fraud, total nonsense.

[@Talic_Wildwood]

The complaints are very weird. Oh, no! You'll actually have to play the game to afford restock. Torpedoes IRL are almost 3 million each. Restocking the largest torpedoes in the game should be very expensive.

[@SkyForceOne2]

you did not get the point. 14Mil for a torp means days, if not weeks of grinding for that single thing. Get a life, if u think that that is reasonable. Not even talking about the instability and unreliability of the game

[@Talic_Wildwood]

@SkyForceOne2 Good. It's a capital ship. It's not meant for one person to have to eat the cost. It's NOT a solo ship. People need to learn how the game is meant to work.

[@mjlee8013]

Playing 2 weeks to restock missles on your virtual space ship! Balanced! Bwahahahaha 🤣🤣🤣

[@Talic_Wildwood]

@@mjlee8013 I see you didn't read the comments.

[@SkyForceOne2]

@@Talic_Wildwood you still dont get the point that 14 Mil is ridiculous in an ALPHA, even for multiple people xD It has no purpose currently, no real value. so no need to inflate prices and deny testing for torps. again, you did not get the point. maybe try again

[@_SPKer]

We "all" make 10s of millions of AUEC per hour, with most people who actually play this game having literally 100s of millions and NOTHING to spend it on... Why are we crying about end-game content actually requiring end-game earnings?

[@randyscharf1505]

worst game ever made its not alpha its a live release 2020 its why i am starting my lawsutie CIG see u in court SC ends 2025 with bankrupt