I Challenged Stockfish: Queen Vs Rook 😮 Queen vs Rook Endgame Practice - Advanced Chess Endgame

Q vs R FEN: 8/8/8/3kr3/8/3KQ3/8/8 w - - 0 1
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[@rufusjasko]

The general way to beat the 3rd rank defence is to move the queen further away, so that you have access to a lot more checks.

[@minimino9878]

Near the middle would be the best option also separating the enemy rook and the king by checking and blocking the king from nearing it's rook that way its easier to fork

[@bobbyb5710]

then you switch corner to force king i figured out

[@rogergeyer9851]

General hand waving re specific complex chess themes is not good evidence than, say, flat earthers or anti-vaxxers have. You remind me of the endless commenters on investment sights that confidently predict short term stock prices -- yet they have NO idea in reality, any more than anyone else.

[@HemantPandey123]

"The ability to play chess is the sign of a gentleman. The ability to play chess well is the sign of a wasted life." - Paul Morphy.

[@nix4110]

Seriously. Who wants to study this endgame just to be slightly better in a couple potential games and forget the lessons anyways? Very painful

[@askinnyshademan]

But then who’s Magnus? Vishy? Hikaru? They’re out there living their best life.

[@askinnyshademan]

And yes I know Paul is considered a great chess player

[@HemantPandey123]

@@askinnyshademan Wasted life in intellectual sense (social cause) and not personal well being.

[@EsaamEpic]

@@nix4110 I think these endgames aren't about general use but more about problem-solving. They aren't tips, kinda like watching someone play a video game. not for learning but for entertainment

[@AustinNagy]

I love how you don’t edit out mistakes or if things don’t go well. I learn from those mistakes too

[@civilengineer057]

I didn't knew it was this tricky to win a qween vs rook endgame Now I don't feel that bad

[@ItIsYouAreNotYour]

I'm the king, no pun intended, at the rook forcing me to capture him with my queen.

[@SinisterMJ]

I had a daily game where I had the queen, he had the rook. I just couldn't do it, we drew. That was when I realized that this was NOT an easy endgame, even if stockfish says +5

[@reubenmanzo2054]

Rooks are seriously undervauled. Despite a mere 1pt difference, I have played 2 rooks vs queen and the queen never made it to move 3.

[@halfaheartbongobongo]

Queen vs Rook is a very hard endgame to win, I remember a story about an IM drawing a Grandmaster in the endgame because he was one of the world's leading experts in it. Doesn't help that some positions are Mate in >50 moves.

[@CottonBG]

Queen*

[@Brewermb]

I think a good idea would have been to swap places and see if Stockfish could mate you. Edit: sorry I meant, see how quickly Stockfish beats you.

[@cwjalexx]

stockfish 100% woulda mated him with reversed roles

[@babayga94]

Agree, seems like good way to learn to mate with queen Vs rook.

[@zenorite878]

A human and fish mating?? 😳

[@vitusdagalkjr4622]

@@zenorite878 it’s how Magnus was born

[@brandyking._]

@@zenorite878 why are you gay 🤔

[@Trelmayas21]

Thanks for this video Nelson. It's helpful to see how you work through a problem you've never done before, as opposed to a prepared lesson. It illustrates how you think through positions and learn, which was very enlightening to me.

[@user-su3zn2xt3z]

This one is amazingly complicated, I've looked at it on and off for more than 5 years and still it holds on to several secrets

[@roblodocus2539]

I love the variety of videos on this channel, it’s just one of the many things that make it great!

[@Amoeby]

Oh boy, I remember how tough it was when I was studying this endgame. However, studying it helped me twice to win with a queen and once even to draw with a rook.

[@34Zero]

At 2.20 doesn't h7 win the rook?

[@Amoeby]

@@34Zero carefully, black's move on 2:20 was with check.

[@tristan6773]

@@34Zero i’m thinking at 2:10 queen to C5 gives a fork. or am I missing something

[@aura809]

@@tristan6773 King F4 or E4 both would protect the rook after Queen C5 check

[@tristan6773]

@@aura809 thx I think i’m about to get into chess. idk how these chess videos came up.

[@somerandomweeb4836]

I would've just taken the draw by insufficient material 😅 saves me the absolute humiliation that would undoubtedly follow if I tried to win

[@rykehuss3435]

Remember that your opponent is about as good or bad as you are. So they could blunder the rook to a fork if you keep trying

[@somerandomweeb4836]

@@rykehuss3435 euhm, you do know the opponent is stockfish right?

[@rykehuss3435]

@@somerandomweeb4836 For some reason I thought he was talking about if he gets into that endgame in a real match

[@reubenmanzo2054]

Except that it's not insufficient material. Both sides could potentially win.

[@somerandomweeb4836]

@@reubenmanzo2054 I think you misunderstood my comment, in the position in the thumbnail, I would've taken blacks rook with my queen and drawn stockfish

[@samgreebo]

Congratulations - it was fascinating to see the learning process of an accomplished and serious player. Great video.

[@martinstephens7057]

Looks easy enough; only four pieces. Involves some of t he most subtle concepts of chess. Very cool!

[@rogergeyer9851]

Yes, like K+P endings very often look easy and can be BEASTLY complex to play properly. I scored a lot of extra half points in such positions (re endings being the only part of chess I actually have a real clue about -- if I could just survive to the ending).

[@Switzerland_489]

8:08 Queen A5 and queen B5 is a Skewer

[@nihits]

maybe give stockfish queen and have a rook yourself and see how it wins

[@invenblocker]

6:16 Mate in 1 Goes for a fork instead. Chad move, show the machine your human superiority.

[@reachdbd815]

where is mate in 1?

[@pradyuniyer7508]

@@reachdbd815 queen to a4

[@silent9fighter]

@@pradyuniyer7508 not m in 1 but a fork

[@silent9fighter]

@@pradyuniyer7508 he played qa4

[@francissmall3529]

Two words: Derek Grimmell. When the future of civilization depends on someone solving a Queen vs. Rook problem, Derek will be on the black helicopter landing at the White House. He has a whole series of videos along with a ginormous ChessBase DB covering just this problem. I'm a crap chess player, but I've gotten obsessed with figuring this out and have spent literally hundreds of hours on it - and I haven't even finished all the Grimmell content. I found that I could (usually) solve the problem shown by Nelson, all the while muttering things like "No, form a Cage here. Ah, he's gone to a Distant Defense. Cover that checking square. Here you check adjacent to the rook's diagonal. Hah! I can form the Javelin - you are totally mine now bwahaha!" Look at the Grimmell videos, and consign yourself to the fact that Queen vs. Rook is between 10 and 100 times harder than King+Bishop+Knight vs. King.

[@ioannisleventis30]

Thanks!

[@nekp2034]

hello aspiring chess player! I need your advice! I have downloaded the database of Derek Grimmel but it is a huge volume of positions and as you are a graduate on this I would like to ask you if I have to study all of them or I can study the most important of them.. thanks

[@francissmall3529]

@@nekp2034 If you want to cover all situations... then yeah, I think you have to cover them all. Derek seems to think that it only takes about 25 hours to go through everything, but it took me at least 10x that. Maybe he's talking GM level. Honestly, if you are simply interested in increasing your overall rating you are probably better spending your time on something else. In my limited experience I have never encountered a queen/rook endgame, but I have played several rook/pawn endgames, and learning the latter should help you win/draw more endgames.

[@nekp2034]

@@francissmall3529 I know this endgame isn't practically much usefull but it fascinates me and I want to learn it. So what should I do? just to study the positions in a row?

[@francissmall3529]

@@nekp2034 That's what I did. They do tend to build on one another.

[@gregmartin3425]

This is one of the most difficult end games. I tried playing my computer this end game a few years ago and could not win against a lone rook. The irony is if black has an extra pawn it is easier to beat him, because there are no more stalemate tricks!

[@homie_official4569]

No but then it will try to promote the pawn keeping rook behind and king with rook .so our king will be infronþ of the pawn and and queen will be hoping to fork something

[@kuei4604]

Really an awesome and one of the most difficult endgames. It's even harder than bishop and knight checkmate for me.

[@jasonhe5578]

it is supposed to be harder than the bishop vs knight mate which is technically elementary

[@rahuswati1492]

NO IT IS NOT

[@kamnasharma6143]

Great video as always! Had a question: Will you be continuing that Proof games series?

[@ChessVibesOfficial]

Maybe eventually! Saw your email as well! It'll probably be a while though before I get back to proof games tbh.

[@kamnasharma6143]

Ah, ok, np! Was wondering if you had got the email or not, lol.

[@grandvoid6940]

Bookmove/mistake at 0:25 Mistake at 0:34 Bookmove/ok move at 3:25

[@slyy4096]

Best way to beat Stockfish is to downclock her CPU.

[@timeholder4068]

not enough, even stockfish running in an old cellphone could beat a gm

[@atomanni-k5m]

I have an old Pentium 2 on this its easy to beat

[@junglerat7247]

I like this video because so many focus too much on the Lucena and Philidor positions. And I'm sitting here thinking that I don't know how to force them in the first place. So its nice to know its actually not easy.

[@philkersonchong9848]

17:50 Black Rh6, white Qf7 or Qf3 (Blocking Rh7+ and threatening Qf8+ with fork on rook)

[@joecatalan]

3:43 actually if queen f4 check and rook blocks than queen to h2 is mate

[@Misteribel]

6:16, fork to capture the rook? Better to just go Qa4#.

[@sharpnova2]

this is one of my most haunting drawn endgames that kept me from a norm at a key moment in my life. was a humiliating draw. i'd looked down on beginner endgame books like silman's. but it's these tough beats that force you to learn things in a way that you'll never forget.

[@TheAngelOfDeath01]

The 3 hardest endgames to play. 1) King and Queen vs King and Queen. 2) King and ONE rook vs King and ONE rook 3) King and TWO rook vs King and TWO Rook.

[@calebmon]

These positions are drawn assuming that the initial position is fair for both players

[@ЯнМатвеев-г9я]

the actual hardest endgames: 1. king+horsey+bishop against king 2. kingn + 2 horseys (drawn assuming perfect moves and fair start, but possible to pull off if opponent makes inaccurate move)

[@laiton_]

If you move the queen to e4 here isnt it a fork? 2:59 if not please tell me why i cant figure it out

[@rogergeyer9851]

It's a fork, but if you don't win material from forking, it's WORTHLESS.

[@Hello86257]

Queen d4 at start forking the queen and rook, after this the best thing black can get is king vs king stalemate 0:34 just move one square left for a pin which puts him in check 2:11 fork on c5 5:50 put queen in corner 9:35 up with queen forces his king down and closer to corner

[@purplesun3792]

That was a satisfying checkmate.

[@rieiejenej]

2:08 you move your queen to c5

[@HassanIQ777]

bruh fork

[@mrunknown4647]

wont work black can move the king to f4 or e4

[@powch9717]

@@mrunknown4647 and he takes the rook

[@Chomta]

Bruh he can block with rook bruh y'all crazy​@@powch9717

[@Kommandjsdf]

King f3, king e4 or rook blocks all save the rook

[@_____Shadow_____]

2:59 you could have forked the rook and the king, therefore creating the advantage

[@RunDNJ]

Stockfish would've just moved the king up to protect the rook tho

[@tezzla6358]

pov 4 elo

[@rogergeyer9851]

SO WHAT? K defends rook, and you trade down to a dead draw? A fork is only of value IF it actually WINS material in this ending or forces a mate -- and in the middle of the board with the K and rook close together it does NEITHER.

[@redloke4456]

4:10 подскажите почему король не может срубить а просто уходит

[@amazinghdgamer870]

I love your videos

[@jasonhe5578]

great, now time to do 2 bishops vs knight

[@ultimatejoshua1082]

I believe that 2 bishops vs knight is usually a draw because of the fifty move rule.

[@леофедотов-ю1р]

4:15 why didn't he take the rook by the king??

[@elby2076]

Black king would have no spaces to move to, thus a stalemate

[@Waitend_gaming]

Its stalemate do not take rook

[@TwDjLsT]

Reading comments and realizing .. Y'all know this dude is way better than most of us put together right... the Depth .. .. . Of how crazy people are. ';..;'

[@lunalove2259]

Great video!

[@onniruusunen9444]

you should also try this against a human who knows the basic ideas to defend this position

[@Skyler.Dreamer]

2:12 queen go to C5 is forking

[@shreyjain3197]

i once had this kind of endgame in a match and i had the rook it ended in a draw i never knew it was winnable

[@pyagangtallu8588]

6:12 what if king move b8

[@blanik48]

In position King f6, Qb5, Rc7, Kc8 - if black goes Rc1. How can white block them in the same corner?

[@intoxictor]

2:07 He missed c 5 with the queen,it checks the king and if he moves it he takes the rook

[@grawr09382]

Re5 defends this.

[@PabloYakushi]

​@@grawr09382 oh gosh, you're right. I was already calling him blind but it was me who wasn't seeing 😅

[@TottenvilleMiddleSchool]

Good checkmate, Nelson.

[@andrewdant2780]

This end game is so much harder than I thought it would be. I spent like two hours figuring it out myself without help today. I wish I'd watched your video first.

[@EsaamEpic]

if at 8:05 you moved your queen down to B5, would it have been a fork?

[@Samir12357]

Nope.. Then the king goes to e6 and you can't take the rook.

[@ehetleosgr]

In 4:12 you can just take the rook with the king.....!!!

[@owenbartrop8963]

The goal is to win not draw

[@CowboyGaming23]

at 3:02 would ke4 been a good move?

[@Karupangan69420]

Chess is just like a wheel, whenever you checked his king it will move and whenever you've been checked by his rook, your king will move

[@sonnyeast3862]

At 11:49 if you shimmy down the a,b file using a series of checks from the queen you will eventually fork the rook-lights out.

[@sonnyeast3862]

Dude 17:00 I totally called it! It feels good to be learning , I wish I had friends that played chess.

[@tottenvillelegend826]

This video makes me feel much better about this endgame. Even a GM like Nelson finds Queen vs Rook difficult.

[@evgenyzinman2755]

6:16 why do you need to fork if it is mate queen a4?

[@alexandernetuzhilov5805]

See the Study of Derek Grimmel (2008) about this endgame (Queen vs Rook). There are 21 positions: Philidor, diagonal1, diagonal2, diamond, bodycheck, Euwe_turnWhites, Euwe_turnBlack, corner defence, absolute 7th, 3rd rank defence, 4th rank defence(=harasment defence), 5th rank defence (by Grigoriev), ect.

[@jadhavpritin]

PLEASE READ THIS @Chess Vibes It is a strat that Nelson unfortunately did not see to take the rook in 1st game Qh7 is a strat to force to move the king (Nelson played kc4) to open up the diagnoll for the queen and take the rook since the king can't defend it. Timestamp 2:23

[@adit3186]

he's in check, he can't move the queen

[@meanderingmarley3910]

Can you set it up as Stockfish vs. Stockfish?

[@SrGabito]

6:16 is a4 checkmate or a1 check and take the rook with checkmate

[@alextalksalot2712]

18:08, he didnt move his rook to the h file cause queen d5 checks and you can figure it out from their

[@dexternelson9094]

3:41 queen f4?

[@jonathanchen1834]

2:20 Qh7 take rook?

[@HeadSpaceCreations]

My very first thought at @2:22 of the video is work it like all you have is pawns and a king and you're trying to work the king into a corner work the king into a corner with your queen and your king

[@josiahstreetman8806]

3:04 Qe4+ fork? Just missed, or is there another reason I am a dodo?

[@trollcart]

at 2:59 u could do Qg1 which will force the king to move and a free rook

[@m4m313]

2:22 missed the pinned rook

[@r.ebenezerpaul6850]

At 2:13 why not fork the king and rook and win the rook??

[@ayushrajwani7376]

please make a video on two knights Vs a pawn checkmate

[@GlobalWarmingSkeptic]

It's amazing because it's supposed to be a theoretical win, but it's so practically hard to remember what to do in every kind of position against every kid of defense that it's one of the few endgames that is a win but you don't resign.

[@kambuntschki6314]

At 3:47 you couldve just moved the queen to e4 forking the rook and the king. If the rook moved infront of the queen you couldve simply taken it and won

[@philou1467]

The black king can move on h3 if you do that.

[@gibbo3714]

At 3:46 i dont understand why u wouldnt go e4 and fork them tbh

[@rogergeyer9851]

I followed computer chess progress relatively closely from the early 80's through the point Deep Blue beat Kasparov in the 1987 match. After writing a decent program as a final project in college for credit, and being very interested in tournament chess, it was pretty natural to follow the literature and watch the progress (with top GM's strenuously denying computers would ever beat top GM's the whole time -- though the math re search depth and strength CLEARLY showed otherwise as computers kept getting faster). Computers got good enough in the 90's that they forced chess ending theory to evolve. Larry Christiansen, a top GM at the time, couldn't win a "won, per current theory" game with a K+Q vs. K+R endgame in some major tournament with some strong computers playing. The problem was that when normally, a human with K+R would keep the rook near the king to avoid being forked. But at the critical juncture, the computer would move the rook way away, forcing the human to find a fork. And in the positions that was happening, Christiansen wouldn't find such a fork OTB. I don't remember the exact date, the tournament, etc. but I do remember the principle. Like you, Christiansen went home, studied the endgame, and found how to beat the computer against that defense. But it's interesting (and unsurprising), Given Christiansen was a top GM, he had to study the thing, he was pursuing the win under tournament (slow) conditions, NOT 3 minute chess, and that Stockfish might be playing better for this position than whatever strong program was doing 30ish years ago -- you did DAMN well, even if you can't do it every single time. Plus, generally, humans will NOT want to separate the K and R in that ending, given how hard it is to find ALL the forks several moves ahead (exhausting over time -- you WILL miss something against a strong opponent playing the K+Q side). So interesting, and I'm surprised you were able to win AT ALL in 3 minutes (nothing against you -- more about the state of computer chess in difficult positions against humans). Thanks for putting this together.

[@dashingmlg601]

3:42 queen e6 to cover g4 when you move your king down sp he cant check you and then mate at the back after qe6 kf4

[@adit3186]

qe6 Rf2+

[@brockthornton3928]

What if the rook went f2?

[@manuelmurielcagigal9971]

If the king moves there it's just checkmate, no? 6:17

[@אדרששון]

i think the camp mate king rule makes endgames more intresting (if kings goes to the last rank its a win) but thats also fun

[@happyroom6482]

3:58 why couldn't you go down, then enemy could go only down with tower, after you kill it, you win... But tower also could go left, but you could do checkmate after that

[@Fahimlol]

Its a stalemate trap.

[@carsonkremlik4747]

nice going!

[@tottenvillelegend826]

Thanks for sharing this. The queen vs rook endgame is indeed difficult to win.

[@shirleycarter9210]

3:35 QE4 ? I'm sure somone will tell me otherwise. But this wins rook with check ?

[@בראישטה-ה8מ]

He missed a fork

[@בראישטה-ה8מ]

At the first game

[@acejohnson448]

Did I miss something? Or was there an opportunity for a skewer at 3:04 ish

[@adit3186]

no there wasnt

[@bobbyb5710]

here an example where i do it 8/8/3kr3/8/3KQ3/8/8/8 w - - 0 1 1. Qf4+ Kd7 2. Kd5 Ke7 3. Qc7+ Kf6 4. Qd8+ Kf7 5. Qd7+ Re7 6. Qf5+ Kg7 7. Kd6 Rf7 8. Qg5+ Kh8 9. Qh5+ Kg8 10. Ke6 Ra7 11. Qg4+ Rg7 12. Qf5 Rb7 13. Qg5+ Kh7 14. Qc5 Rg7 15. Kf6 Kg8 16. Qc8+ Kh7 17. Qh3+ Kg8 18. Qh5 Rg1 19. Qd5+ Kh7 20. Qe4+ Kh8 21. Qa8+ Kh7 22. Qa7+ Kg8 23. Qxg1+ Kf8 * Notice how i avoid getting checked

[@hamzaalsholi3333]

Could've moved queen to e3 to e4 forked the rook and King took rook but I don't know if it's auto matic win as its it could be insufficient pieces so yeah missed that

[@Sweet_Bed]

4:11 JUST EAT ROOK!!!

[@remorostudios2899]

it's a stalemate

[@michaellautermilch9185]

You needed to use more pins. In this endgame, the opponent usually has around 4 king moves and 12 rook moves to choose from. A pin forces your opponent to choose from about 75% fewer moves.

[@arthurrtang9670]

at 19:10 Kd5 would actually reach that critical position, but with Black to move instead of White.

[@34Zero]

2.20 queen to h7 wins rook

[@arthurrtang9670]

@@34Zero white's king is in check in that position at 2:20 so white doesn't have time to play Qh7.

[@toothlesstoe]

I was getting frustrated trying to figure out this endgame. Probably never will, but now I don't feel so bad.

[@diro9311]

2:57 e4

[@loiclariv]

at 3:00 theres a fork with the queen moving one scare up

[@M3inelRaC4raft]

This Acctuaky Should Be A Draw The Queen Can Trap Black's King But Black's King Doesent Have To Move He Has A Rook And The Rook Will Check The White King You Think? No, Hell Trap The White King So It's A Draw

[@arcythecube]

No, you can win lol

[@Chomta]

17:57

[@shaunmcisaac782]

13:30 Soundtrack - "I think I can fight with Mike Tyson"

[@MrRando]

why didnt you just move your queen to d4 in the first game?

[@GuzaoPazug]

Porque ele iria mover a rainha pro e6 e se o rei matasse a torre a rainha iria matar o rei e iria ficar 2 rainha e o jogo nunca iria acabar

[@educat1on166]

17:13 the moment

[@Wtfkys]

3:52 qd4

[@daniellitton4764]

At 2:20 isn't gueen to h5 the winning move?

[@verbfrombonsai8852]

he's in check tho

[@lazylucas2964]

How many forks can you miss

[@KR-P]

Have you done pawn and rook vs queen?

[@34Zero]

At 2.20 mark doesnt qh7 win the rook? Or am I seeing my own things

[@davidketterman961]

Watch Derek Grimmell go over Queen vs Rook endgame very helpful...Just type Derek Grimmell on KZbin.

[@nynagorli5074]

Had a doubt that what happens with Qd5 instead of that Qb4 at 19:51

[@directspeak07]

Yeah!that was way cool but ka7 was a Step there

[@nynagorli5074]

@@directspeak07 then Qd4 and h8-rook is lost!

[@v1.vortexx126]

What about queen e4 fork at 2:58?

[@pedramtajeddini5100]

Kh5