'I don't believe universal suffrage has been a success' | Peter Hitchens

[@vladivanov5500]

“Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become more corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters.” - Benjamin Franklin

[@Henchman.24]

I'd love to know what an unfaithful philandering drug addict's definition of "virtue" is, and why he thinks he possesses the authority to render this judgement

[@GeorgeOrwell-yz6zx]

Yup. The corollary is that people elected the leaders they deserve. If people are greedy and lazy they will elect greedy and lazy politicians

[@robinwells8879]

Democracy only works with an educated and engaged electorate. We currently have neither in much of the Anglo sphere world but I am optimistic that current tyrannical trends may reengage the electorate with the process by showing how valuable democracy is and how fragile it is.

[@raidermaxx2324]

well he's uninformed with this take. Dictators like Donald TRump or Hugo Chavez, "Hijack" democracies and use the fact that the opps party respects norms, while his party breaks them. And that s when the democracy stops functioning.

[@shaunwhite1504]

America is not a democracy.

[@HebrewsElevenTwentyFive]

AND *morally upright.* This is the great tragedy of moderrn humans. Missing the fact that Christian values are crucial to upholding a stable system in the West.

[@shushanto]

We have no educated populace in the Anglosphere?? Have you ever seen the REST of the world? People might as well be animals they're so brain-dead. In India the Prime Minister says Jump and people say "how high is the bridge I should jump off?"

[@PerkpopperDotcom-qu3hk]

@@HebrewsElevenTwentyFivethe United States will live to see Christian theocracy die. It’s the only wau

[@sirwholland7]

Liberty under the law with citizens that are vested in the system (net tax payers) should only have the vote. Otherwise you get a critical mass of net tax takers voting themselves more benefits and eroding the rule of law and the checks and balances that would normally keep centralized governments from ever growing and intruding.

[@ReekieReels]

That wont work friend, we had that before Universal Suffrage. They just changed the requirements until almost all had the vote, then used this to justify eliminating all property requirements. I think we should have voluntary national service, civl or military, the right to vote is earned on completion of this service.

[@davidhawley1132]

The real issue is that professionals, bureaucrats and the like, have taken over real power, and they don't need or want citizens to make decisions. So why not give everyone, citizens, sojourners and illegal aliens, the vote, and simply pander to them?

[@roluss4297]

​@@ReekieReels banning marxists and marxism from the system as an example of a secular religion is the only safeguard against the current threat. This is due to the inability of any democratic system to recognise specifically marxist threats, since they are essentially trojan horses.

[@XMeK]

@@ReekieReels These arguments aren't mutually exclusive. Whether through taxation, or sweat equity in lieu of taxation , both classes of citizen have a vested in the health and success of the nation as a whole. This is, essentially, Heinlein's government, and I think it a more sustainable relationship than that which we currently have.

[@PerkpopperDotcom-qu3hk]

@@ReekieReels why would this help the average American, what if you are unable to physically or mentally

[@radicalrodriguez5912]

correct. democracy matters, parliamentary democracy, but it isn't *the* jewel in the crown. Rule of Law, Liberty under the law, free speech are all much more important

[@robertholland7558]

Speech should always be free, even if it is false or a lie. If so such false lying speech need to be called out and explained why it is so in order for us to learn from it. When damages occur then justice will address the appropriate consequences for reparations.

[@danielkrcmar5395]

​@@robertholland7558No

[@kaniel_outis1]

However if the rule of law is used to undermine democracy, it cannot be the crown jewel. Rather the roles must be reversed when exploitation is taking place …

[@robertholland7558]

@@danielkrcmar5395 care to explain?

[@willek1335]

@@robertholland7558 In general, I think that makes sense.

[@triphophoney2981]

Today, I learned the meaning of the word "inimical" courtesy of Peter Hitchens. Thanks!

[@dion6146]

Must have representative government with checks and balances as well as hard limits on government authority. Greece understood that democracy devolves to crowd rule and authoritarianism. Communism/socialism is wrong even before it starts. The trouble is there has been no economic system that awards merit (which it mus), which allows wealth generation and is not gamed for the advantage of a few. We must have individual ownership economies wherein virtually every hard-working person owns a meaningful/significant piece of the means of production.

[@Si_Mondo]

"I don't rely on democracy to defend the things I love.... it's just something I put up with." *Hans Herman-Hoppe has entered the chat*

[@heycidskyja4668]

Hippity-Hoppity who?

[@tonyclifton2230]

Hhh?

[@richardhunter132]

I wonder if Peter would mind democracy being restricted if he was one of those who was no longer allowed to vote?

[@cometclear]

If tomorrow I lost my right to vote in perpetuity, I wouldn't give more than a minute's thought to it. As a public employee, there is a good argument to be made that I shouldn't have a vote. My right to free speech/expression/thought/conscience is infinitely more important, and the chipping away at this right and other fundamental rights often come about because of the masses, not the few. Pure democracy is "might makes right" in action.

[@richardhunter132]

@@cometclear who do you think the government would favour in such a society: the people with the vote or the people without?

[@cometclear]

@@richardhunter132 Then the object is to have something other than a pure democracy, rather than trying to impress the despotic ruler.

[@richardhunter132]

@@cometclear that's not answering the question

[@DontDrinkthatstuff]

​@@richardhunter132The problem is Democracy relies on an informed and somewhat proactive citizenry. I prefer it but I do see issues especially when you have such a divided citizenry like we have in the West.

[@marvinbrando722]

Well, UK has "hate speech" punishment now. So, they distroyed free of speech with their democracy. Same Australia, Canada. I think you are correct. Just USA is kinda left, but I dont know how long

[@youbigtubership]

Supporting liberty under the law, I often wonder why the 'self-regulating society' is not explained more often. Citizens exercising their integrity by obeying the law even when no one's watching and there's no prospect of being caught.

[@Userhandle7384]

That’s what exists in Japan and Korea in many ways. But they are highly conformist societies with strict social rules and a shame based control mechanism.

[@AllanTidgwell]

Because that's not how people work. People aren't self-regulating. You're taking a Rousseauian perspective on human nature, and that's simply demonsterably wrong. Hobbes was correct by noting that man in its state of nature will live a life of "continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short" (Leviathan, I. XIII. 9) Humans are savages. It's society which directs us to do good (but of course, can also direct us to give in to evil)

[@owenmartin3307]

Freedom of speech is a crucial part of democracy, you can't have one without the other.

[@jasontownsend9460]

Cicero was right when he advocated for a mixed constitution with elements of monarchy, democracy, and oligarchy. The UK used to have that when the House of Lords was all hereditary. Now, not so much.

[@Steve-sg3uz]

Liberty under the law = Republic.

[@sithersproductions]

No, Monarchy is the best system you leftist

[@dabby249]

well hes a well known avid monarchist so the antithesis of a republican

[@Steve-sg3uz]

@@dabby249 What monarch makes the laws he lives under?

[@Steve-sg3uz]

@@dabby249 It depends. My understanding is the king over there is in charge of enforcing the laws. Sorta like a president does. Remember, the US is fairly modeled after the British system but without a monarch.

[@Mcaark]

Democracy is a tool. An enabling mechanism, it can be used to reinforce liberty, or destroy it.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

People should know. It's very possible for Democracy to elect an Autocracy. And when that happens they can't vote out of it.

[@mickeyrube6623]

If you live under the law, you should have a say in that law, period. That doesn't mean out right total democracy, as it would be impossible for the average person to vote on every single issue, every court case, every preposed bill, etc. But every citizen should have a vote for SOMETHING, be it a representative, a party, or at least on the type of system that choses those things. Leaving anyone out will gaurantee that they will suffer exploitation by those who get a vote.

[@Plugitinbby]

Peter yearns for feudal englands return.

[@Durram258]

what makes you think each and every citizen has the wisdom to have that power?

[@nathanaelheil2818]

I don't think liberty under law can really express at without democracy. If the people can't choose their government then they don't have liberty.

[@cathoderay305]

In the US, originally, you had to hold property and/or own a business to vote or hold public office. It meant you had skin in the game and wouldn't pass laws that overtaxed those capable of paying taxes or pass laws that would adversely affect homeowners, farmers, and businessmen (including the poorer types of these).

[@norbertdolles1106]

Full interview please

[@iggyblitz8739]

Just got to John Anderson's channel

[@PComp-t3y]

DEMOCRACY IS AN ILLUSION, you're dictated to by beaurocrates and big business who own the politicians therefore own your choices. The 2 party system of government around the world has proven that ... big business owns both parties.

[@malcolmthorne9779]

Democracy and capitalism both end up in the same category of things with inherent dangers, injustices and drawbacks we have to endure because we haven't found a better solution yet.

[@christophertaylor9100]

Almost nowhere uses pure democracy.

[@chrism3790]

No system other than democracy is capable of defending liberty. But it's no guarantee. A democracy can destroy itself too.

[@christophertaylor9100]

How about a republic?

[@newtonia-uo4889]

People were living freer and more local lives under feudal monarchs. Modern nation states are so powerful and their reach so ever present that its common rule is equal to the most tyrannical feudal kings.

[@chrism3790]

@@christophertaylor9100 Well, if you want to be very specific, I guess I meant a representational system. Republics are virtually always democratic.

[@MrMicronano]

Love Peter Hitchens someone who makes you smarter by just listening.

[@TheWayOfRespectAndKindness]

😂

[@MrMicronano]

New study indicates people who respond with emojis only are bed wetting sociopaths and are probably groomers

[@TheWayOfRespectAndKindness]

@@MrMicronano your reply demonstrates just how ridiculous your comment is. How smart is it to make up bs to protect your fragile ego? Thanks for the laugh 😂

[@walterkaiyuenpang3556]

​@@MrMicronano... 🧟‍♀️🧟🧟‍♂️

[@e-naa4118]

How's being the dumbest person in the room at all times going? @@MrMicronano

[@seanmoran2743]

do not say that democracy has been more pernicious on the whole, and in the long run, than monarchy or aristocracy. Democracy has never been and never can be so durable as aristocracy or monarchy; but while it lasts, it is more bloody than either. … Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious, or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy. It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history. Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of simple government, and when unchecked, produce the same effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty. When clear prospects are opened before vanity, pride, avarice, or ambition, for their easy gratification, it is hard for the most considerate philosophers and the most conscientious moralists to resist the temptation. Individuals have conquered themselves. Nations and large bodies of men, never. John Adams

[@musiclover9361]

Anybody who opposes universal suffrage is really not worth heeding.

[@izaaklea8702]

I miss Christopher.

[@jeannievrantsis445]

Me too

[@awesomeface9081]

Me too

[@sit-insforsithis1568]

I don’t

[@newtonia-uo4889]

Christopher Hitchens is a sophist, much blabber, no real insight

[@scottbirch968]

I did for a while, but not any more.

[@gullf1sk]

I was about to write that this guy sounds exactly like Christopher Hitchens until i saw his last name

[@jayw2841]

Liberty under the law is indeed a good thing, though without democracy who is it that decides what the law is? The King? The Archbishop?

[@bourbonyoung6237]

That’s not the fault of democracy. At least not the democracy that Socrates advocated. And there appears to be a correlation with religion and conservatism, particularly when populism is claimed to be the equivalent of democracy, and the loss of freedoms. And a similar link to injustice as well.

[@timrichardson4018]

Right! The great insight of western civilization is that there are certain transcendent goods that all people (including and especially the leaders) must be subject to. These goods include justice, liberty, truth, and duty to name a few off the top of my head. And in service to that, they determined that a well thought out balance of power would be the best means by which to achieve a society where everyone lives according to those transcendent goods, to the benefit of themselves and society as a whole. That balance of power includes voting and term limits on those in power. The idea wasn't pure democracy or universal suffrage. It was a way for the people (at least those knew what was going on and had incentive to care) to check the power of the government, and the individual branches of government to check one another. "Democracy" as such wasn't the plan. Representative republicanism with a new model for balance of power was the idea.

[@johnrea2115]

Now we have politicians who are only divided only by their franchise loyalty, parties full of individuals from the same the same backgrounds and embracing the same concerns and promoting virtually the same perceived solutions, there should be the option on the ballot paper to reject what is on offer rather than the turn to the other cheek option which only provides a smokescreen for a system that governs for the entitled minority

[@jercasgav]

I have always thought it was wrong that people benefiting from welfare and/or not paying taxes got to vote on laws to increase taxes for others when they aren't going to be paying it. Or for non property owners to be allowed to vote on increasing property taxes, etc. When there are two foxes and a lamb voting on what to eat for dinner, the foxes will vote to eat the lamb! It isn't right or sustainable!

[@carlpanzram7081]

Where do these votes to increase or lower property taxes take place? This is not how the system is set up.

[@thomasayling6328]

What about the people who need benefits to live? If you exclude them from the voting pool then the taxpayers will vote in favour of paying less taxes and the most vulnerable in society will not get the money that they need. Do you not see how you can flip your argument both ways? If you increase tax, one group benefits, if you decrease tax another group benefits. You can't just let one of those groups vote because there will be a bias.

[@DestructoDisk]

​@@thomasayling6328the difference is, you're stealing from one group under threat of violence to give to another. You're a bad person 👍

[@belfastbhoy5679]

Anglosphere 😂😂😂😂 Glad to see british exceptionalism is alive and well

[@heycidskyja4668]

It's definitely not a bad thing.

[@belfastbhoy5679]

@@heycidskyja4668 it actually is, british exceptionalism is a blind belief, by the brits, that somehow they outperform every nation in every field, simply because its Britain. It is in complete conflict with the facts. E.g. almost every brit you ask would perceive the country to be outperforming its former colonial possession Ireland. When the reality is, Ireland ranks higher in the human development index, a league table of developed nations based on multiple metrics. So yeah, british exceptionalism is a good thing if you're happy for eternal stagnation due to ridicolous ignorance.

[@SmelOdies]

I assume there was a follow up question as to what he prefers to democracy? Someone after all has to choose the leadership.

[@Tqoratsos666]

How was one brother so gifted with his thought process, and the other being an utter imbecile? The wrong one died...

[@donalddude7568]

The one who promoted degenerative atheism and supported Iraq war, believed in end history ? If you consider him the gifted one then you are not suitable to take part in intellectual discussions.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

​@@donalddude7568 Yup. If the Iraq war when well he'd advocate a Secular Crusade against Islam.

[@xedasxedas]

Indeed we need to prune our assumptions

[@ianwilliams6042]

He is right in what he said, but what would he replace it with?

[@silverhawkscape2677]

That's what we should seriously ask ourselves. Or maybe change the Voting requirements to be of 21 years old and take a test to show you are fully aware of how the Government actually Functions for starters.

[@courtcounselor]

De Tocqueville warned about tyranny of the majority. Were Copic Christians better under Mubarak, a dictator or under the Muslim Brotherhood?

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

The wider the right to vote became, the less freedom resulted. Society has steadily declined since women got the vote.

[@foxibot]

lol.

[@bencorbo1]

Would you rather have a corrupt tyrant or a corrupt MP?

[@michaels8638]

Liberty under the law has never really been in acted in hardly any democracy, its been liberty under the law for those that can afford the best lawyers, and the few who can afford civil court costs

[@alicelander9058]

Who took the vax just to go on holiday, Peter?

[@A-Roman24]

This is what obviously true

[@NoosaHeads]

He says that democracy can lead to autocracy and is inimical to the rights of the people - and he citess Turkey, as an example. Can anyone explain what he means by this? He's a deep thinker and a highly respected man of letters but i don't follow his logic in this instance.

[@mrward6510]

Service guarantees citizenship

[@foundationsrus6469]

How can you take someone who speaks like a caricature seriously?

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

Do you mean as you in the comments?

[@artistjuliadocherty]

Who does he not believe should vote?

[@newtonia-uo4889]

Not Peter Hitchens but women and most men shouldn't vote.

[@artistjuliadocherty]

@@newtonia-uo4889 That is a really sad perspective…

[@newtonia-uo4889]

@@artistjuliadocherty how is that sad?

[@Adsper2000]

@@newtonia-uo4889Why do the anime pfp degenerates always think that everyone else are the real degenerates?

[@jamesstrawn6087]

Something is wrong when one must essentially compel others to vote. Yes, "liberty in law" as the hymn says, but also equality before the law.

[@lordwhoopi9132]

Oh yeah, couldn't possibly see that leading to anything bad. Take the vote away from working people? Yeah because that's historically lead to wonderful things.

[@rmvanravesteijn]

But what about alcohol?

[@1pridelion]

It doesnt exist in Canada. A house divided cannot stand. Quebec is a thorn that should have been plucked in the 60s.

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

Do you really think that Quebec is the problem, the reason that Canada is overrun by migrants and you can't oust an awful president because you haven't got the will?

[@justaguy328]

I agree with something that Peter says but universal suffrage is the just way to structure a society so we take the good and the bad with it

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

I don't think I agree. The U.S. experience is that as it became more inclusive, it was opened up to corruption and now hardly anyone trusts the process.

[@frauleinhohenzollern]

Based!

[@bradonchristian6017]

Democracy is cringe. Republic forever.

[@sirrodneyffing1]

The US is a democracy WITH universal suffrage..what's it being a Republic as opposed to a Constitutional Monarchy got to do with that?

[@bradonchristian6017]

The United States is a constitutional republic.

[@andrewgreeb916]

This is probably why we need properly educated people and anyone immigrating needs to go through a process to get voting rights. I thought that was how it was

[@axelbruv]

Thankfully, immigrants keep the Tories out of London. If only there were more immigrants in the rest of England.

[@toddr.6209]

Pure democracy is simply mob rule. A simple majority is allowed to subjugate any minority they desire or at which they are directed. I used to believe we would be better off voting for every law by referendum until I thought through the protection of the minority forced upon us by the Constitution's 3/4 rule for Ammendments.

[@deaddocreallydeaddoc5244]

With freedom that minority can go off and start its own country and see how that goes. But they no longer do that. They use their minority status for political gain as the Bolsheviks planned.

[@junipeperina]

Giving Turkey as an example raise a question: When their values match with yours its called liberty but when you don't like their opinion it's called very dangerous authocracy?? 😂

[@michaelmurray7220]

No, what he’s saying is that people can use democracy to end democracy. Democracy can’t be an ideal because sometimes people vote to get rid of democracy.

[@norawheeler2555]

In The Netherlands in some of their regions they had high concentrations of Muslims and they voted to have Sharia type laws -that is a failure of democracy

[@robinfox4440]

There's a reason Plato ranked it the worst of all forms of government.

[@Spacecow78993]

Is not “liberty under law” is a nice way of saying democracy? Maybe it some flaws but so far it’s best it was invented

[@paulk3681]

Proportional representation is all very good on paper, but in reality allows extremist parties a seat in government

[@truthwizard]

I propose a small vote tax. If you want to have a right to vote you pay a symbolic fee... Oh wait that's how it actually started...

[@lokpikr999]

The problem is allowing others to vote to abridge our freedoms.

[@cathoderay305]

Here's an idea. Only allow those who've served in some capacity the right to vote. If you've been in the military, the police force, emergency services or a teacher for a period of, say, four years, than and only then should you have the right to vote or seek public office. Doing so proves that you were willing to sacrifice on behalf of your country and demonstrates loyalty to that country. Alternatively, conscript all able bodied people for a period of four years and only allow those people to vote or hold public office. And don't dismiss the contributions that the handicapped can make as public servants either.

[@pocketmouses]

Doesn't work logically because you'd waste 4 years of everyone's career. Also, not all people are in those careers are good people, educated or wise

[@cathoderay305]

@@pocketmouses No, but they put themselves in service for the greater good. It's a social contract, you accepted responsibility to earn benefits. Most people enjoy the rights and privileges of citizenship but don't fulfil the responsibilities inherent in that citizenship.

[@peterharding1551]

I think Hitchens' razor (the other Hitchens) might apply here.

[@TheLastWalenta]

So he’s suggesting that the only way to avoid autocracy is autocracy? Christopher would not be proud.

[@agricolaregs]

No. That’s not what he said at all.

[@TheLastWalenta]

@@agricolaregs What would you call the system whereby suffrage is removed? I suppose you would be correct in that autocracy is not the sole beneficiary of democratic failure - theocracy comes to mind - but Hitchens is not speaking of any system here other than autocracy. He is, and I am paraphrasing of course, stating that autocracy is not an ideal but that democracy has not always been the deliverer from autocracy that we claim it is. Unfortunately, and since I am a biologist and not a politician scientist, I don’t know of any system of democracy that does not involve universal suffrage in some way. Perhaps you have one and I genuinely would be interested in hearing about it.

[@donalddude7568]

Christopher is 6 feet underground I don't think anyone cares what he would have thought.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

​@@TheLastWalenta Simple. Replace Universal Suffrage with Qualified Suffrage. It's the same thing why Aristotle hated pure democracy. Democracy works best when the people are the crew of the Ship and the Captain to lead is elected. Not a Popularity Contest which our democracy devolved into. People who are low information voters who might as well not given the right to vote out voting people who took the Time to think about their votes. That's the real Problem

[@TheLastWalenta]

@@silverhawkscape2677 Who decides who gets to vote?

[@peterroberts2952]

Like America and the EU.

[@markroberts6403]

Based

[@filipedias7284]

From Reddit: "It's so strange to see someone so nihilistic, combative, and cagey about a topic they wrote a book on while simultaneously complaining that nobody read it and everyone hates it. I wrote a whole book on this, but I hate talking about it, people don't want to hear about it, even if they do they won't agree, even if they will it won't matter."

[@filipedias7284]

"Ya, that part of it was really weird. He seemed very fatalistic about it. My dude, you wrote a whole book and you have written numerous other works about drug decriminlization. Obviously you care. But you are saying that nothing you do matters? That you’re just recording history so that someone in the future can look back from the wasteland and say you were right?"

[@tareknassar1521]

Paid for by the Propaganda Machine!

[@johnperry-nx3gl]

Okay, Mr. Hitchens, please cite an example of an autocracy or totalitarian state that has honored basic human rights.

[@xedasxedas]

He didn't said he knew other forms of "goverment" that couldn't lead to supression of freedoms. He said that with democracy it wasn't a garantee (as some are lead to believe). I just love the way he puts his sentences together. Like poetry. The content is another dimension.

[@johnperry-nx3gl]

@@xedasxedas The 'content' of what he said was nonexistent. And I do not share your delight with the 'poetry' of his way of speaking. Glib oversimplification does not impress me. He did explicitly state that democracy is inimical to freedom, a peculiar statement given that democracies are the only governments where real freedom actually exists.

[@PerkpopperDotcom-qu3hk]

@@johnperry-nx3gl yes why did no on catch that that all he said?

[@nicholascartwright1894]

Democracy inevitably decays into tyranny. See books 8&9 of Plato's Republic (or Wikipedia's decent synopsis of it) for an uncanny description of the world we live in now, authored 2,400 years ago. It reads like prophesy.

[@johnperry-nx3gl]

@ayyleeuz4892 It's a pretty broad category, but, for example, and by no means exclusive, freedom of thought, freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom of association.

[@zx9mel]

I'm with Hitch. Where is the Utopia . . .

[@jackhanafie8903]

This is not Hitch. This is his less interesting, less thoughtful brother Peter Hitchins. There is only one “Hitch”

[@KhanSahinkaya]

Imagine using turkey as an example this is hilarious, look like a toad, have a British accent and say big words. People will believe you

[@sarahcover7248]

Where is the libk to the whole conversation? Seriously getting tired of interesting shorts that I'd like to see more of where the poster didn't do the most badic thing regarding shorts. Pin in the description and at the top of the comments.

[@thebham24]

We are asked to worship the arabic warlord 5 times a day but despise the germanic warlord when both of them did the exact same thing , albiet the arabic one killed 10x the number

[@samphelps856]

What was he doing off camera the whole time? Like is he changing into biking clothes? Just pacing.

[@steveharris8248]

Whomsoever Peter thinks should be barred from Voting should also be excused paying taxes.

[@tonym2464]

The people Peter thinks ought not to be voting are the ones who don't pay taxes,. I agree with him.

[@morhanny]

If not, then what?

[@jimrobinson4786]

The great atheist is learning in the heart of human kind (you to women), is not good.

[@davidbamford1971]

Honestly Hitchens P is the most overrated commentators in Britain. Wrong about nearly everything War in Russia, break up of the UK political system. Drugs policy, he couldn't stay the heat with an admittedly awful alex king in the interview and had to walk out. The sum of the parts is smaller than the whole.

[@ironsideeve2955]

He also thinks that fMRIs are bad science so... Don't care much what he thinks

[@mikeoneil5741]

how about a constitutional republic?

[@raidermaxx2324]

a constitutional republic IS a democracy you silly sausage. All republics are democracies.

[@mikeoneil5741]

@@raidermaxx2324 -yes, but they are not pure democracies. constitutional democracy might be a more apt description.

[@Etherchannel]

Peter is the more arrogant and less intelligent version of his brother.

[@sussyboy7043]

I find Christopher to be far more arrogant and abrasive although I appreciate his wit and humor

[@christendomempire5657]

No Peter is more humble then Christopher. Christopher was arrogant.

[@christophzeit6282]

This argument is nothing but a platitude. The non-democratic systems of rule haven't been all that successful either. It probably depends what metric you decide to use.

[@lonewanderer3456]

He is specifically talking about the modern universal suffrage democracy. Democracy can also be limited to people who have met some criteria that ensures they have an interest in the nation, be that the traditional military service of ancient democracies (Athens) or economic (most nations up until the suffrage movements that gave the vote to everyone regardless of their ability). Under universal suffrage, up to 50% of voters can't be bothered, or aren't engaged in the nation's politics. Of the 50-60% who vote. less than half have a genuine stake in the nation, or have the capacity for individual thought...hence we have effectively created systems were the same political power groups remain in Govt for generations. People vote for demagogues,...a danger that Socrates talked about as being a disastrous consequence of expanding democracy to 'the masses'.

[@AlanHovell]

Pity that he has outlived his brother. Who really cares what Peter thinks about anything. No wonder he has now grown a beard to covert his triple chins. Such self importance and shallowness of thought.

[@silverhawkscape2677]

He's the better brother

[@elliottstevens8564]

He's right you know...

[@kyleolcott1769]

He ain't.

[@stevelux9854]

True democracy is mob rule. Anything over 50%, or the majority, can do anything to the minority.

[@nerdyali4154]

That's why you have a constitution and many hoops to jump through in order to change it. The mob can do anything they want anyway, legal or otherwise. Pointless waving a bit of paper at a revolutionary mob.

[@stephensuddick1896]

Bloviations and drivel.

[@Mark_Dyer1]

I think that - in order to vote - you should have to prove that you are a CONTRIBUTOR to the Exchequer (ie a PAYE, and NI payer), and not a beneficiary. Thus, I would have lost my vote on retirement. This should apply across the board; with no exceptions.

[@PerkpopperDotcom-qu3hk]

This would only benefit the rich

[@alsoascot02]

Jings that would have meant a whole different outcome to 2016. And what about folk who served the state snd were disabled so they cant work?

[@Mark_Dyer1]

@@alsoascot02 I'm retired, so am no longer a CONTRIBUTOR to the 'state'. Ergo, I'd lose my right to vote. A person who has been disabled - unless still in paid employment - falls into that same category. So, we cease to vote. As for 2016, many young people today simply don't fall into the CONTRIBUTOR category; and so they would not vote. If they were in HM's Armed Forces, or in paid employment where PAYE and NI were being contributed, they have a vote. "No taxation without representation". Many OAPs are sufficiently wealthy that they still pay Income Tax: thus they have a vote.

[@nerdyali4154]

Perhaps you should rather demonstrate absence of a personality disorder in order to vote. As a taxpayer in the UK I was actually pleased that my taxes would go in part toward helping the less fortunate. Opinions on this subject appear to depend on personality.

[@PerkpopperDotcom-qu3hk]

@@nerdyali4154 bro I don’t think trump supporters could vote then

[@kpala64]

Look who is talking the colonial lot lizard 🦎 preaching the world once again how to live your life. 😂😂😂

[@nofovos]

you joking? there is no democracy in Turkey :P

[@thomashanlon9764]

Thanks democrats

[@stevenvater8720]

Love him or hate hitchens he's a very wise man. Been right on everything

[@nerdyali4154]

Been wrong on a lot. He's very arrogant and doesn't know his limitations. He seems to have bought into the anti-Ukrainian propaganda and when Sweeney tried to pin him down on why Ukraine should negotiate and abandon their citizens to systematic persecution, he didn't have an answer but didn't want to change his position.

[@el-sig2249]

I totally agree with him.

[@danmartens8855]

Christopher's smarter brother.

[@nerdyali4154]

Nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is.

[@Alex-mj5dv]

But he is. He doesn’t fall into the sophistic traps his brother often did. I disagree just on premise with Peter on religion.. I’m an atheist. But on matters outside of that, he’s often spot on.

[@puck61luck64]

Just like in America with Joe Biden.

[@danielmartin25]

He’s not really up to his brother’s standard I fear. Oh my….

[@newtonia-uo4889]

Yeah, Christopher Hitchens is a hedonistic rhetorician, Peter Hitchens is an actual thinker and seeker of virtue.

[@markbenjamin1703]

The only people who vote should: be over 25, be property owners and have both parents born here

[@eprd313]

Lol what an elitist pos

[@Noah-cm6ek]

Restore the Monarchy. We were better off

[@jeronimotamayolopera4834]

CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCHY!!!!

[@eprd313]

😂😂😂

[@filipedias7284]

From Reddit: "It's so strange to see someone so nihilistic, combative, and cagey about a topic they wrote a book on while simultaneously complaining that nobody read it and everyone hates it. I wrote a whole book on this, but I hate talking about it, people don't want to hear about it, even if they do they won't agree, even if they will it won't matter."