I felt this when I joined netflix animation

[@LordLuigi_Rigs]

Last year I got the chance to work on an amazing Netflix animated show. Too bad it got shelved temporarily and eventually cancelled. I felt gutted! I had turned down other opportunities just to work on their show! Unbelievable they still do this! ☹

[@shakeemwinn3647]

Was it Bone?

[@Kyurigachz]

😢that’s so unfortunate and unfair

[@Neatrior]

I’ve heard a lot of horror stories of Netflix just shutting down animated projects unexpectedly. It sucks, because animators are treated like cattle or something ;/. Having your work purged before your eyes is really demotivating. Awful.

[@tux_duh]

​@@shakeemwinn3647they're probably under a nda so can't disclose if it were

[@sad.3x3]

thats awful :[ did you at least get paid well?

[@BLAHBLAH1000shop]

I haven't worked with them, but heard a story from a production friend about them pitching their show/movie (which was basically done filming btw) to this "new" era of Netflix. According to them, Netflix made it clear that they were basically only looking to adapt the production to whatever preexisting vision they had instead of just, ya know, taking the show that's ready in front of them. They would throw everything out and completely change everything about the show. If that's the case though then why even bring people in to pitch? It's also incredibly demoralizing to hear Netflix shift into a strategy of production purge. They would save way more money if they just committed to a handful of productions instead of making sacrifices later. Such a waste of talent. For a lot of artists breaking into animation we think the hardest part is building a portfolio and landing that first job. The idea of actually landing the gig and dedicating years to that job only to have it cancelled and locked away for nobody to see is... nightmare situation. How do you get another job after that? Is it just back to square one? It all seems like a disgusting waste of time and resources. I've personally kind of given up on pursuing studio work and am prioritizing the day job with animation on the side. I'd love this to change in the future, but the entire entertainment industry is in shambles right now.

[@AlexHuneycutt]

Yes, you have to continue creating personal work on top of your art job. A majority of your work won’t get shown from a major production until years after, and that’s if it makes it to see the light of day. By the time it does release, you’re also 3+ years beyond when you originally created it (at least if you’re on preproduction or some production roles), and you wouldn’t really want to show it anyway because your skill level has improved. Your second job isn’t guaranteed, nor is your 3rd, or 4th… you have to hit a fairly established reputation to get work more reliably and even hence you have to upkeep on skill because there’s millions of people gunning for the same limited art roles.

[@BLAHBLAH1000shop]

@@AlexHuneycutt Thanks for the reply! I don't often think about that gap from production to release. Explains why the majority of my professional friends don't make a huge deal about their contributions once the show releases (though I always wanna see them share their stuff). And yeah, job security is always an ominous threat. Wish there was a perfect world were always guaranteed years of work as opposed to months at a time.

[@koffeekage]

Another problem is probably these executives not thinking animation is a real medium.

[@jacobnapkins1155]

Unfortunately the hays codes and decades of censorship has made people view animation as "for children"

[@dkeys86]

I worked at an animation studio that was growing extremely fast only to go bankrupt out of nowhere. Always pay attention to this pattern with studios

[@jacobnapkins1155]

It's sad how much is going into live action remakes that could otherwise be used to make new ips or expand existing ones, kind of sick of people playing dress up and making a million dollars while ab army of special effects artists carry their story

[@saramations]

4:45 holy crap, thank you. People dont realize how some creatives are not decisive, and in an industry thats all a out making decisions, thats a bad thing. 😅 its especially bad for higher ups and department heads *coughs gray g haddock cough*

[@CushionSapp]

I find it hard to convince myself to start watching shows (animated or otherwise) since I've been burnt too many times on getting into something that just gets up and cancelled (or starts getting bad after a certain season).

[@superjboy16]

NDA at Netflix finally expired huh? Lol jokes aside, it's very interesting to hear how it was at Netflix when they were really open to many different ideas.

[@OctopusOwl]

The worst thing about this process is so many people’s great ideas and stories that never get made, that can’t be made now cus they’re still owned by Netflix. It’s frustrating because they could be shopped around in the future, but it’s gonna be a long time before they can because of Netflix owning the IP.

[@ChrisCrazyHouse]

Thanks for doing this video. your experience sounds very familiar to mine during the early days of Web/Flash animation (WildBrain, Mondo Media,ect.) There were a bunch of studios hiring animators and we also thought we would be able to do more creative projects since we were not just tied to the TV and film animation industry. That bubble popped and many of those studios went under, leaving a lot of animators stressed and out of work.

[@moa-anims]

Bro just confirmed invincible season 2 and 3

[@nathanhollow0]

Season 3 got confirmed like 2 years ago

[@LucHD]

ayyo invincible season 3 confirmed! let's gooo

[@jjstarrprod]

Something you mentioned that made my ears perk up was that until a couple years ago, Netflix felt like a gold rush. Well, that's the thing with gold rush. They're only as good as long as there's gold. Once the gold is entirely mined, there's only rocks and mud left. Sadly, I think that's exactly what Netflix was. A gold mine that looked beautiful, but like every gold mine, the more people are rushing to it, the faster it runs out. The studio identity issue is also an interesting one. Unlike Disney, Pixar or Dreamworks who have a well defined visual and narrative identity, Netflix didn't particularly have one. But I would say this is n't exactly a problem. The lack of focus on a particular style was exactly what made them so attractive to creators all over the world, who didn't have to adhere to a strict and restrained inhouse style like Disney or Dreamworks to be able to exist. It was, in a sense, a perfect incubator of talent and diversity, without even needing to brand itself as inclusive. It just was the way it was. Sure, it's sad that this era is now over and people are shitting on Netflix for not going through that promise, and I certainly understand that it sucks massive balls to have spent years on a cancelled show and have nothing to show for it, but hey ! I'm seeing this more as a miracle that they were able to pull off for all the years they could put some of the most creative series out there, and we should actually be grateful that it actually existed in the first place and gave so many people different opportunities, instead of cursing them for yet another leadership change because of their stock market plummeting overnight last year. Like everything in life, bliss comes and goes, like the tides, and now, after a massive blissful wave, we're in the rip current. Gotta keep swimmin' hard if we don't wanna get dragged in the ocean. Until the next wave.

[@shakeemwinn3647]

This is why it's best to do it yourself. Having too many hands in the pot is ridiculous. You lose the vision of the author. It might take awhile to get it done but, at least it stays true to the vision.

[@allanredhill8682]

there are projects you just cant do on your own and working with other passionate creators can be a lot of fun. I think the issue lies more with the industrialization of the art industry - studios like Netflix are way out of touch with the artists working for them and they will drop a show just for a tax write off. If anything we need more independent studios like cartoon saloon that are built by artists for artists

[@shakeemwinn3647]

@@allanredhill8682 Tell that to Gint Zibalodis the director of the full length animated CG film. "Away". He did that by himself. If he can do it. So can we. However, yes. Having an independent studio creating and animating a film is fun and rewarding but, what happens if the studio can't finish it due to funding and other obstacles. Do you let the project die? Hell no. You take the reigns and do it yourself. There are just too many examples of people who are not waiting for the stars to align. They just decided to get it done and they completed it. Anyway. Sorry about the rant Allan but, I'm passionate about this topic. Especially, when i'm also putting my money and time where my mouth is.

[@allanredhill8682]

@@shakeemwinn3647 just because one person can pull it off doesnt make it realistic. Most people dont have the skill or luxury to do this lol

[@shakeemwinn3647]

@@allanredhill8682 It's all about sacrifice and developing the skills to get it done. It's no different from developing any other skill or trade. You just have to put in the time. I will send you a copy of my film when it's done.

[@Robin_House]

@@shakeemwinn3647 Your comment reminded me of this video. Not quite the same as what you're talking about, but might be an interesting perspective. I think there is a lot of value in being less precious with your art, especially if it means you get to make more art. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bHPddHeMh5KnqJo&t

[@marcoa.2912]

The cancellation of Lauren Faust's new show still hurts 😢

[@somebum4087]

She’s so talented. She can never seem to catch a break.

[@rotgutted]

i love you and your art so much! keep it going :) I'm really glad you're working on my favourite show too

[@zanettilla]

invencible season 2.... AND 3??! I didnt even knew there was a 3rd one lol

[@rotgutted]

third one is still being worked on!

[@zinzolin14]

Glad to hear this experience, as difficult it must've been to deal with at the time. Gives me something to keep in mind when searching for job opportunities.

[@gachaalexstudio9744]

Man can't believe they cancelled your hard work felt the same shit since they cancelled upcoming dark horse comics Matt Wagner grendel series

[@DominickvdHoff]

Great video! I love these insights

[@shakeemwinn3647]

Damn right. Keep it going bro.

[@Hyolf]

I remember i watch wolfsong from 7 years ago it was my favorite wolf story

[@whatif5465]

Netflix sounds like a Nightmare...Thank you for the info.

[@bervicksimien2848]

I truly appreciate you sharing this experience with us. Hopefully everything works out for you. You mentioned something about having a hand in Invincible. Can you share details on that?

[@blkdrphilart]

Within restrictions is creativity. Many animators have never worked in team settings or have enough freelance experience to help know their creative limits.

[@metatrongroove2824]

Very cool insight. As a VFX worker, good to see someone else sharing industry stories.

[@psalmsworld7050]

This guy just let it slip that Invincible has got a S3….😢 Yessss

[@animatorFan74]

Yeeeeh giving FULL creative control to the creatives doesn't sound healthy.... even though we hate being told what to do, we sometimes need some guidance from people producing the animation to keep us on track for the fnal product. Sounds like many, many resources were wasted....that's not good. Hope you're in a good role now, Toniko. :)

[@NY_Mountain_Man]

Digital art seems so overwhelming. Good for you. Regarding Netflix... I don't know anymore. Everyone seems to have vested interests and trade perspectives that all seem equally valid. All I understand is the end consumer / pedagogical side of things.

[@shakeemwinn3647]

I would rather you work on your own projects bro. Your talent is off the charts. However, we all have to make a living so, I understand.

[@kristinberthiaume7634]

I have a question, as somebody who’s just a fan of animation (no direct involvement): I’ve always been under the impression that good stories have been re-written. I’ve seen a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes content that talks about an initial direction for the movie that’s distinct from the final product. (The movie Frozen comes to mind.) Conversely a lot of bad movies have noticeably half-baked storylines. How can production companies strike the balance of allowing re-writes, but limiting them so that a lot of work doesn’t go to waste?

[@phillriley9688]

This explains a lot!

[@timlevang]

Did Netflix make all their new animators and employees etc make a drawing featuring the red N and post it on social media and tell the news that they’ve gotten a job at Netflix? 😅 There were so many people doing it!

[@TonikoPantoja]

Oh man I totally forgot about that. They didn’t but I did to join the trend lolol.

[@upumpkin]

Hi Tim!

[@timlevang]

@@TonikoPantoja Hahaha ok!

[@timlevang]

@@upumpkin Hahaha what’s up Tyler?! 😃

[@Cinetiste]

The real question is... where will we see the adventures of this little fierce mouse ?

[@SmashGuyROA]

I really think Netflix is capable of making and producing great animated features like Klaus and Back to the Outback. Hopefully they will find their footing and continue to make high quality animated projects.

[@simondragon206]

I wish i can be better artist than him😢

[@antoniomalavoltaandrade2637]

Do you know how to export a high quality 2D drawing in Blender?

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

Is this why there is still no season 2 of Dorohedoro 😭😭😭

[@aeoifjapefijl]

I loooooove your mouse character! What's his backstory if he has one?

[@gottafindacoolname]

“Insanley”

[@aoihitori]

Probably Netflix only like shows that will flop. 😂

[@GoodMomo]

No wonder we got multiple crap from Waco O'Guin and Roger Black.

[@vacnuo]

U used to make cute and inspirational animations before, I hope you go back to those peaceful times.

[@Eddisdedd]

He could've made those videos at his worst

[@NekoBoyOfficial]

TL;DR Netflix's incompetent leadership wastes everyone time and money. Yikes.

[@Thefinsqauad]

What happened with Tunga? I thought they bought the script in an auction. Did the script still need rewriting?

[@sarahuchoa4018]

I gave up on Netflix the day I received the news that they had canceled Final Space😢 Now I NEVER watch ongoing shows.

[@loodgack]

okay, but how do you even get hired to anywhere :/

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

I think this video of yours is kinda all over the place.

[@m3z784]

interest rates from the fed

[@KE-yq2eg]

Corporations, man.

[@simondragon206]

You want fun? Ill show you fun.

[@marckez4420]

la lalal alal lal la

[@FelixTheAnimator]

UBI would be awesome, yeah?

[@MrSilentProtagonist]

The writing of Castlevania was terrible after the first 4 episodes (the 4 episodes from the cancelled movie script that actual underwent rewrites). If the stories were constantly being rewritten, then why do they feel like a first draft?

[@MrSilentProtagonist]

@bleh329 That is such non-opinion. The least worst part of the show is its terrible pacing and that is enough to call it a badly written show.

[@MrSilentProtagonist]

@bleh329 Do you really think anyone likes people spouting through terminating clichés and acting like they are part of some kind of intellectual class because the person who disagrees with them doesn't constantly acknowledge common knowledge? Literal children are expected to understand what is or isn't an opinion without the speaker needing to prefix it "IMO". Saying something is an opinion adds nothing to a discussion.

[@KaterynaM_UA]

I quite liked the writing. It fit the genre and carried the tone of the games pretty well.

[@MrSilentProtagonist]

@@KaterynaM_UA The writing is bad sci-fi disguising itself as horror. It is GoT if it skipped to season 8. If you played Castlevania and can't tell who is the badguy, you would probably think that it carried the tone of the games pretty well.

[@Vexcenot]

I used to think youtubers getting slashed by youtube was bad but damn this is basically 10x worse

[@GREATANIMATIONS]

W

[@shirakawamaseru]

Well to me, as a consumer, Netflix always felt like an extremely greedy, very typical, big budget company that tries everything to make money as fast as possible. And Netflix Animation is just that. A project whose intention is to make Netflix as much money in an as short time as possible. Everything you described sounds exactly like that. Management oriented chaos. Everyone is just there to make money and as soon they have the slightest feeling it wont work, its done, over. Netflix doesn't chase any vision (neither artistically nor in any other way), they chase money. Always did, always will and you can see and feel it an pretty much all their productions. Its a money making machine working with silicon valley methods.

[@JakinsStudio]

Anyways, thats all bye.

[@ZipDraw]

I disagree with it being a bad idea giving creative contr to the creatives. You can give control but still set objectives in a pipeline.

[@KaterynaM_UA]

I have never known a single creator able to deliver stuff on time without producer managing the timeline. Worked in game development, comic books and publishing. It's just how it is.

[@ericsart6474]

The real problem was that working at Netflix animation was like working at an activist organization and not a studio. The whole thing about the higher ups leaving the artist alone was the biggest mistake. It was letting the inmates run the asylum. This is exactly the reason why they fired everyone.

[@AlvynArt]

This.

[@bloodyidit4506]

Going into mainstream media animation is straight up UNSAFE. You're better off on your own or with a discord group or something.

[@magicinkstudio]

Do they add LGBTQ to every idea pitched?

[@lemond2007]

Every show must have a gay couple and a mixed race couple.

[@ivanmatveyev13]

Yes

[@asscheeks3212]

Lmao

[@Cyynapse]

no one "adds" anything. stories are stories. lgbt people are normal so no one really cares. go outside

[@magicinkstudio]

@@lemond2007 I learnt there were going to do that to avatar . Add sex scenes etc

[@gavenhobbs3124]

Hey man I just wanted to tell you Jesus love you. If we turn away from sin and ask for forgiveness we will be forgiven. Romans 10:9 if we confess with our mouths Jesus is Lord and believe in our hearts God raised Him from the dead we will be saved. Heaven and hell are real and Jesus loves us so much that He died in our place to take the judgement of our sins if we believe. Heaven is available to those who seek God. Jesus loves you have a great day. Christ is the only way to true peace and Heaven

[@quintessential7515]

Why are you here