I Have... SO MANY EMOTIONS | We'll Be Fine/Love in Paradise | Epic The Musical Reaction/Analysis

[@omarsalem1219]

Calypso: ody get away from the ledge Poseidon waiting in the water : do a flip

[@Theedanishviking]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@mark-felixhencsey943]

Flip in the water 🗣️🗣️🗣️😈😈🔥🔥🔥

[@Karii_Sophiee]

LMAO HELP 💀

[@TiredOcto]

NO BECAUSE SOMEONE SAID THAT IN THE LIVESTREAM CHAT WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING

[@jiingflower]

LMAO I SPIT MY DRINK-

[@Jmnl-b2l]

Just some quotes from translations of the odessey “In the nights, true, / he’d sleep with her in the arching cave - he had no choice - / unwilling lover alongside lover all too willing” Calypso is singing with her “breathtaking voice” and weaving at her loom while Odysseus “sat on a headland, weeping there as always, / wrenching his heart with sobs and groans and anguish, / gazing out over the barren sea through blinding tears” "She lulls him, always, with soft seductive words, intending him to forget Ithaca. But Odysseus, who yearns for the mere sight of the smoke rising from his own country, only longs to die" Consent is really cool, coercion is not that, and neither is kidnapping. Good day to all

[@weirdgamer1594]

Yeah ngl im kinda hoping that in this version, ody doesnt get S.Ad and instead just gets trapped. But i might be biased cuz i love Barbara Wangui so damn much

[@karutasilver]

​@weirdgamer1594 Barbara isn't calypso. You can love the actor and despise the character. You can definitely interpret the story however you would like, but I think it's important to portray the villainy of power dynamics when men are SA'd. I say this as a survivor of one such situation. Still, I love Barbara! Just think calypso needs to be alone forever for predatory behavior like that.

[@Jmnl-b2l]

@@weirdgamer1594 you can love the actor entirely, people play villains all the time after all, can hate and love to hate the villain and discuss the real world scenarios some villains play out, with absolutly no effect on the actor. Because those are two very seperate things. Barbara is a wonderful singer, her voice is stunning. Calypso is character. All them are characters. Old characters, from an old tale, with a cultural impact. But not their actors. Odyssuess very well may be one of the oldest witten, explicit depictions we have of male sa that we can trace. That much is important to discuss, and that discussion has no ill effect on barbara

[@omarsalem1219]

@@Jmnl-b2l this does not happen in epic, the next saga opens with a song that makes you sympathize with Calypso, she is not like that in epic

[@bluebay1031]

​@@omarsalem1219 It kinda does. Plenty of people still hate her, just with a touch of added sympathy for her plight. The two arent mutually exclusive though

[@hsninja4]

"Fun" fact, Calypso accidentally triggers Odysseus with three different things. The most obvious is of course the "open arms" of Polities. Second is "stay in your heart" which was said by Odysseuses mother in the underworld. The last is a bit of a stretch, but Eurylochus is the only one who has used the nickname "Ody" in the Epic the musical up until this point, which is why we hear them all in the end.

[@secondsea2]

I believe it. Those are the three singers that echo around him

[@MattJWaters]

you forgot quotes around "accidentally", he talks in his sleep, she definitely did this on purpose

[@madame.rosier]

@@MattJWaters honestly i don't think so, this takes place around the end of the seven years, so clearly by now Calypso would know enough about him, but she has nothing to gain by triggering him Calypso WANTS Odysseus to stay on the island, triggering him is more likely to make him jump and i'm pretty sure she knows that or maybe she thought it would help ? idk but she definitely wasn't doing it with the intention of triggering him

[@boo9781]

@@madame.rosierthank you for having common sense, it annoys me how people claim so boldly things about calypso just because she ain’t likeable

[@Felix0802]

​@@madame.rosier I think she triggered intentionally bcz she said the exact phrases of his most loved ones. She doesn't seem super shocked after seeing Ody on the ledge, it's likely he came many times before, and to prevent him from taking action, she triggered the traumas which froze him temporarily so she could buy enough time to get him to safety ( which makes her more manipulative and horrible)

[@TheDTSZ]

Mortius: “I apologize if my opinion of calypso might be biased a little bit” Me to the screen: “trust me it’s gonna change soon”

[@officialmortius]

Real…

[@phoenix_Talaria]

Me in the previous one....

[@kiratheusagiisworkshop5266]

Fr, when he said he liked PJ Calypso I litterally went "Ohhh Boi, you are NOT gonna share those feelings with this Calypso"

[@phoenix_Talaria]

@@kiratheusagiisworkshop5266 I feel so bad for past mortius when I go back now!

[@sigridhorn2408]

Me rembering how the odyssey is even more explicit about what happened on that island😢

[@rlcbofficial871]

I’m honestly just glad to see a media where a man being emotionally manipulated is taken seriously instead of people being like “lucky guy, he’s on an island alone with a goddess” and brushing it off

[@Eeliphant1]

Agreed

[@rhov-anion]

For real, I hate that

[@MammalianCreature]

There will still inevitably be some of those people as Epic becomes bigger and bigger, the audience will grow and those people will slip in. Best to ignore them when it happens.

[@Faith276]

@@MammalianCreature I mean to be fair, the fandom is pretty big already and I personally haven't seen any of that nonsense. I think there's always gonna be horrible people but the majority of listeners are a good bunch and understand that it's a messed up situation.

[@boomgirlbucko]

If this came out in like 2015 people would definitely be saying shit like that

[@CFEntertains]

this life is amazing :(

[@I_Draw_A_Lot_Get_Used_To_It]

When you great it with open arms :(

[@lvkasyndrome]

whatever we face we’ll be fine if were leading from the heart :(

[@CyrahLia_459]

No matter the place we can light up the world here's how to start :(

[@thatonegirlwithtoomanyfandoms]

Greet the world with open arms, greet the world with open arms :(

[@yanchoman]

(Welcome!) :(

[@a.i.1328]

*Mortius rants without headphones on with video paused.* *Mortius puts headphones back on, then starts video* "This life is amazing" *Mortius instantly pauses and throws the headphones off* "Nooo"

[@AniMeL0V3R92]

I may have rewatched that bit a few times 😂😂

[@Frostbite08]

Odysseus in My Goodbye: "What's a title that a Goddess could lend if I'll never sleep at night?" Athena in We'll Be Fine: "Maybe if I helped you reach that goal life could be that bright, I could sleep at night."

[@Eeliphant1]

Ooh I didn’t make that connection and now my heart hurts more

[@nezis5149]

Im not okay😢😢😢😢😢😢

[@mushroom4286]

Love in paradise made me go from “yoooo! this is a vibe!” to “why must you kick a person while they are down Jorge?!” 😭

[@Tricia.e25]

His nickname is jalapeno for a reason😅❤

[@tetragaming6332]

'We'll be fine' exists just to raise your mood so that 'Love in Paradise' can kick it down later

[@SingingSealRiana]

She is so creepy

[@Nemial-l7i]

This is the song that made me quote Mortius with the "Jorge... oh when I find you Jorge. I'm joking... but like for real did you have to hit us so hard in the feels????"

[@telkei3365]

because fandom is a glutton for punishment

[@abthedragon4921]

"Sweetheart you might be as dense as your father" LMFAO, damn man XD

[@amandahibbs3690]

Depends on how the next sagas go tbh 😂 at least little Arrow is young and has an excuse

[@lavernasilver6999]

8:42

[@allietiess]

That made me laugh so hard xD

[@jp3711nc1]

Who

[@jessnalulila5552]

​@@jp3711nc1 the titan Atlas

[@makaramuss]

hey everyone, this is your daily reminder: CONSENT MATTERS

[@giant_pigeon]

Also idk if it's been said but I think it's so important to get representation for male victims in media. Like so so important

[@liminalpsych]

@@giant_pigeon agreeed. And just the idea that women can be perpetrators of abuse too (regardless of victim’s gender-only ever depicting men as the perpetrators makes it REALLY hard to identify, name, or talk about it when your abuser is a woman. Hard enough as a nonbinary victim, and I can imagine it’s even harder for men who have the additional layer of “men can’t be victims, right?” due to lack of representation).

[@giant_pigeon]

@liminalpsych literally. I'd buy a yacht if I had a penny for every "man up" and "you're just taking attention from female victims" I've heard in my life

[@sigridhorn2408]

​@@giant_pigeonthe amount of people fighting for their lives on tiktok screaming out how Odysseus is a victim and almost as many saying he wasnt. That he was willing, that greece had different notions of consent esp as shes a goddess so it wasnt 🍇, that he 🍇 her, that he drugged and 🍇 circe everyday for a year (???!!!)), that hes a hypocrite for asking if Penelope was faithful and so on. Its insane. People will ignore the twxt itself and say that Homer's odyssey itself is not sufficient evidence to prove that Ody was a victim

[@giant_pigeon]

@sigridhorn2408 yeah mfs will believe anything exept that men can be victims and women can be abusers and 🍇ists. The hypocracy of humans never cease to suprize me

[@thebitten1]

"How dare you use "Open Arms" against us right now" 1 Millisecond Later "Noooo..."

[@Miss__Mystic]

You know, it's even sadder when you realize that this is Ody's lowest point. While Zeus did spare his life in Thunder Bringer, he is nowhere near home and now, he's being burdened by his demons and his guilt. So, him calling out to Athena after their very tense fallout years ago, his luck finally ran out and he is out of tricks. He is desperate.

[@OdysPupper]

The fact that he had ZERO faith Athena would come, he truly believed Athena was done with him after their last song is tragic as hell, he's definitely at his lowest during that, thinking his time here is worse than death, which prompts him to be at the cliff in the end.

[@thatonegirlwithtoomanyfandoms]

Also Athena was the one person he knew for sure was still alive 😢

[@OdysPupper]

@@thatonegirlwithtoomanyfandoms The one he knew could one in a million have a chance at reaching back anyways!! He knew the rest of the gods he came about hated him (Minus Hermes and maybe Aeolus but Herme's probably not the strongest god to help him in THIS situation and prob him and Aeo can't find the unknown island) And Athena was actively searching for him enough to hear his cry. ody was 100% expecting to rot on the island. :(

[@seanchesteralexisexamen5964]

The fact that in the back ground Eury sung the line "You rely on wit-" just as Ody calls out for Athena

[@OdysPupper]

@@seanchesteralexisexamen5964 " Damn is he actually gonna be smart? " Eury says as him and Polites watch from the Underworld on a ghostly TV eating popcorn (The 598 other men left because they didn't believe in ody)

[@dphantom1314]

"He's calling out to the only person that helped him who he didn't see die." Uuuuuuhhh. God Games is gonna be rough for this man.

[@CyrahLia_459]

The face is the only correct reaction to Love in Paradise- Also, I love how in Thunder Saga, the happiest song is called 'Suffering' and in Wisdom it's the other way around, the darkest song (in my opinion) is called, 'Love In Paradise'

[@icemagiciangh]

I definitely made that face during that song

[@DinoGeekLOL]

Calypso: Ody, get away from the ledge! Meanwhile Poseidon and his dead crew (minus Polites): GET IN THE WATER-

[@mythicalunicorn4530]

I CANNOT wait for this song

[@freddieadams8435]

Poseidon: DO A FLIP

[@Nemial-l7i]

Poseidon, probably: Come to my open arms, Odysseus! >:D

[@Feedback72]

@@freddieadams8435 You got a loud cackle out of me, sir

[@rainbowshiningstar2770]

​@@Nemial-l7iOh my Greek gods. Stop.

[@liminalpsych]

Gonna pre-empt anyone who might want to say “EPIC Calypso may not have SA’d Odysseus” to excuse her: Even without SA, it’s *still not okay.* Please, please, *please* do not excuse her behavior just because she’s also potentially tragic in this depiction, and just because it *might not* involve sexual assault in this version. Even the most generous reading of this song *still* has a major power dynamic difference, and *still* has boundary pushing on Calypso’s part even after Odysseus said “no” more than once, and *still* has her pressuring *emotional* intimacy even if we choose to believe she’s not pressuring sexual intimacy (and I *do* think the lyrics still imply pressure for sexual intimacy, at least in the beginning). Even the most generous reading of this situation *still involves emotional abuse.* And that’s still incredibly harmful. Don’t downplay it. Don’t excuse it. Don’t dismiss it. Emotional abuse is still abuse. Abuse done in the name of love is still abuse. Abuse done out of fear and loneliness and pain and woundedness, abuse that wasn’t intended as abuse, *is still harmful and abusive.* Calypso’s a great character. Wangui’s vocals for her are fabulous. Calypso is sympathetic in some ways. If Jorge’s going with the likely more modern “cursed to stay on an island and fall in love with people who arrive there” version, she’s also incredibly tragic. There’s nothing wrong with sympathizing with her or enjoying her characterization. (I personally appreciate how skillfully this difficult topic was handled in the musical.) But you can be wounded, you can have your own trauma, you can have unreciprocated love, you can have pain and loneliness and *still respect someone else’s “no”.*

[@mythicalunicorn4530]

‼️‼️

[@SwirlingSkies-w4u]

THIS!!! I’ve been struggling to put my thoughts about calypso into words and you did it in such a well constructed way, thank you!!!

[@liminalpsych]

@@SwirlingSkies-w4uI've been struggling with it all week, and seeing some reactions to Mortius' (excellent and very validating) reaction finally catalyzed an essay, heh.

[@SingingSealRiana]

Abuse stays abuse, no matter how sympathetic or well meaning the abuser appears, her sad story does not lessen the damage she afflicted on him!!!

[@Nemial-l7i]

Honestly well said liminal and wholeheartedly agreed. I don't care if it's a curse like in pj or otherwise, what she does here is very much not ok.

[@baldberryz]

The "I don't know who your friend is" has twofold meaning in We'll Be Fine. Firstly, he doesn't know that Athena is talking about his dad, but ALSO he DOESN'T KNOW HIS DAD. He knows practically nothing ABOUT him except for those stories he's been told!!

[@shadowcreature5732]

The next line, " I don't know what he's like," can also mean telemachus doesn't know who HE is since athena said he was a lot like her 'friend'

[@sammy0493]

My fav headcanon when Athena said to Telemachus "And then his light went dark" she actually meant Polites since Polites is Odysseus light 😭😭😭

[@coolava2952]

Yesss that was my immediate thoughts when I heard that lyric especially since it fits her knowledge at this point

[@whitenobeard]

OH! Y'know you didn’t have to say this!

[@mohammedaldalan359]

It doesn't make sense though because she's talking about monster polites dying happened before Athena left she said then we grew apart THEN his light went dark

[@TheCanderemy]

​@@mohammedaldalan359they were "growing apart" even before she left him in My Goodbye. Her literal introduction song, Warrior of the Mind, was her telling Ody to get his shit together and not stray from the path she laid for him. They were growing apart (fighting, not seeing eye to eye), then his light went dark (Polites dies OR his spark of wisdom dies, becoming emotional)-- which is the stroke that broke the camel's back.

[@poisecritikal]

Go ahead and grab a torch for me😭☹️

[@ajax068]

15:53 I think Athena's eye reaction was more of horror than fear. Like "is this really what became of my friend?" kind of horror

[@IcecreamCat23]

WAIT. When Athena is going through Ody’s memories… when we hear Athena’s motif and she’s “watching”, is that actually future Athena visiting the past ????

[@leolen8029]

YES! I COMMENTED THIS SAME THING ON THE LIVESTREAM!

[@WittySomething]

I had the same thought myself. So many people, myself included, thought various piano things that weren't attributed to other specific characters meant Athena was still keeping an eye on him. Like I had always thought the reason she never intervened in Ruthlessness was maybe because someone had called on a God for revenge and maybe she had no jurisdiction to stop it. Same with why she never got involved with other matters, they all were things that for whatever reason she just couldn't step in. But then the opening sequence of LiP started and I'm like "Wait, Athena *hasn't* been watching him?" and had the thought that all those piano things must have been an indication of her looking back at the past from the future. Which is crazy to think about. Jorge thinking so far ahead for one, but also just the idea of a character looking back at things we're perceiving as the present when for her it's the past and she's in the future instead of our present...

[@natalietepaa]

Yeah, that sequence has become known as the time dive. She’s actually going back into past events and realising everything that has gone on. That’s why she says let’s see where you’ve been and then asks where did you go… She doesn’t know because he’s out of the jurisdiction and control of the gods with calypso. My thoughts anyway.

[@feistsorcerer2251]

​@@natalietepaa A lot of people hypothesized that the piano bits in other songs were Athena "watching". If I understood correctly, the OP is suggesting that the piano happening in other songs is the result of the time dive in this song.

[@RedFeralWolf]

Calypso: Ody get away from the ledge” Poseidon in the water: Don’t worry I’ll catch ya. 😈

[@geeksoldier451]

NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT MICO'S RIFF. His first riff in the song is mimicking his father's, but when he says "if not his friend, then mine" he does his own personal riff, as if contributing his own influence to the relationship!

[@qwerty_qwerty]

mico is so PERFECT for telemachus I've been saying this forever

[@SeidrSnowsong]

Calypso hit three specific trigger phrases in this: "ody"-Eurlyochus is the only one in the show who has called him that directly (and at all at this point in the show. It changes with God Games but still) "Ill stay inside your heart"-Anticlea/Ody's mom in Underworld says that near the end "open arms"-Our sunshine boy. Then all three of their songs kick in. Its brutal

[@SadfaceCM]

😮 Oh crap! God, that must be so triggering… And I thought just the open arms part was bad 😭

[@rubycraft673]

not only the "open arms" lyric being a rip off of polities but also the "ill stay inside your heart" is one of odyseus' mom's lyrics

[@gemsngold]

and “Ody” is a tip off to Eury

[@Alexgaming-wf2nj]

Mortius: *crys from epic* Jorge Rivera-Herrans: haha victory

[@Oleandra-13]

I am the Monster, rawr rawr rawr

[@devonsantiago7637]

I noticed a cool detail in the time dive part of Love in Paradise. While Athena goes through the memories things play out normally except during Tiresias' part he turns and looks straight to the camera and Athena which doesn't happen in any of the other memories. He's the only one who acknowledges Athena. Since he can see all of time he knows Athena would time dive and see that very moment and he looks right at her/us. Now I imagine at some point during No Longer You he's just looking to where Athena is going to be during the time dive while Odysseus is just standing there confused about what he's looking at.

[@Azziyaisalwaysonline]

So you’re saying, during the Underworld livestream that one ghosty thing that flies at the camera might have been Athena?

[@ArtofCrimms]

Something I haven't seen many people point out is how the "tone" that Athena uses to say "He needs my help" is the same that Ody uses to say "I have to see her" in Thunder Bringer Also, those high notes implying he's outright screaming tore my heart out on the stream.

[@AislingNausicaa]

Watching Mortius suffer through poignant and painful Epic moments is my comfort viewing after suffering through it myself. Edit: Good Lord, after watching the video (I posted this before the premiere), I kinda feel bad for writing this! Mortius, I'm so sorry you went through what you did, and thank you for being so candid and honest with us. I hope that you will find solace in watching Casper lose his mind over it. 🙃

[@justanaveragehumanbean]

@@AislingNausicaa BRO FR

[@justanaveragehumanbean]

@@AislingNausicaa I IMMEDIATELY was like “oh man I can’t wait to watch Mortius lose his s*** over this” as I’m crying over Love in Paradise

[@fernandonava6693]

​@@justanaveragehumanbean Same

[@officialmortius]

….. I can’t even be upset at this that’s what I use Blind Wave for tbh

[@justanaveragehumanbean]

@@officialmortius I don’t blame you, Gravity Falls Blind Wave is dope. WAIT A SECOND MORTIUS IS HERE-

[@siddharthofmannargudi8110]

*Looks at Mortius's face* Mortius was, in fact, not fine

[@siddharthofmannargudi8110]

I wrote this comment before the video was out, did not estimate just how much Mortius was going to suffer

[@laurasibob1106]

I love how Calypso is shown to be a textbook abuser here. Not only is she abusing her power to force Ody into being with her, she uses all the words possible to trigger him into breaking down to control him. "Ody" "Stay in my heart" "Open arms" all of them to make him collapse.

[@OdysPupper]

Pretty sure she didn't mean that on purpose, she knows how much Odysseus is suffering and sorta sweeps that aside with the whole " You'll be fine if you come back " type deal, plus Ody would be a very common nickname so she would've triggered him by accident. Sure, Calypso did horrible things to Ody in the source material, but she still "loves" him so Ody being at the cliff would obviously make her sad, even if it was just because she'd lose him. (Spoilers for next song of the next saga "Sorry For Not Loving You"). Calypso seems genuinely sad when Odysseus is leaving the island, and despite the cruel acts she put him through, she seems to genuinely care about him. And he seems to understand since they have a cute song together after Wisdom but Ody's perspective during that is more " Sorry you couldn't have me" buisiness.

[@animustudios2257]

.... I COMPLETELY FORGOT THAT "Stay in your heart" WAS EVEN A LINE IN THE UNDERWOLRD SONG!!!

[@Autumn-xs1bt]

@@OdysPuppereh you can feel bad for someone without excusing their actions

[@karutasilver]

@@OdysPupper bro canonically talks in his sleep. She's heard the entirety of epic up to this point several times over. Nah, she knew exactly what she was doing. Monster, even after knowing all the words to the next song, I can't see her as anything other than a manipulative, gaslighting, greedy god just like Zeus.

[@KnightMysterio]

​@@karutasilver A standard Olympian, then.

[@Arzenic]

Odysseus when he sacrifices his whole crew and gets stranded on a island with a different woman: "My disappointment is immeasurable and my 7 years is ruined."

[@akaittou]

The soft "No..." and stepping out of the frame when That Moment came... Mortius being Every Single One of us. (Also the paused animatic almost makes it look like Ody is looking at Mortius' reaction like "Is this guy... okay?" 😂)

[@МорфейМутноночный]

26:45))))

[@icemagiciangh]

Oh. I wasn’t silently doing it. I was “BISH STAHP.”, _getting my baseball bat ready_

[@justanaveragehumanbean]

That face is exactly what I expected haha The second half of Love in Paradise seriously made me and my friends lose our s*** during the livestream haha

[@CyrahLia_459]

Who didn't- I actually started crying ...

[@amyedwards6922]

What are ya on bout mate?

[@MammalianCreature]

@@amyedwards6922 All the callbacks to Ody's dead best friend, dead second in command, etc in the second half of Love in Paradise (the ledge scene) made them lose their shit while watching during the livestream. Use context clues, bruv.

[@jonevarty2205]

​@@MammalianCreature Dont forget his dead mum😢

[@DuskShadow235]

15:42 - Often when it comes to a pupil dilating its due to seeing someone you love be it romantically or familiarly or just someone you in general care about, and I think the pupil shrinking when Odysseus said “I Know” was a form of shock, like she was expecting to see some terrible shit but she wasn’t expecting to see him chose himself over his crew Also quick note at 14:39 in hopes of making you laugh, THERE IS A TWERKING WINYON THERE

[@mr.eldritch1589]

26:25- She didn’t just push Odysseus’ trauma button there, she pushed EVERYBODY’S trauma button there…

[@KSmith-kp5jz]

Calypso may be the worst obstacle Odysseus faced in his journey because you’re right: her false love is essentially a mockery of everything he’s done to get home. Odysseus’ love for his wife and son is a core tenet of his entire being. Calypso attempts to pervert that beautiful piece of him by forcing her warped sense of love and desire on him, by doggedly trying to claim Penelope’s place in his heart despite being firmly rebuffed. It’s like the fates themselves arranged for him to be brought to her island to throw everything he’s done back in his face. Odysseus has sacrificed everything for love… and he’s being rewarded with “love.”

[@ashleykabbes9316]

I completely understand how triggering this song is (love in paradise)! For me it was the scene on the cliff. Without warning it hitting me with the cliff scene was so hard and as many times as I listen I can't not cry. It's so hard! I really appreciate your compassion to others that this was all triggering to. We are all more than our trauma! 💖

[@qrtxl3625]

I don’t usually comment but hearing „you’re more than what you went through“ made me tear up. You’re such an amazing content creator and don’t shy away from discussing such important topics. Thank you, we appreciate what you do

[@AlexGukgak]

The stern "HOW DARE YOU" to such a soft "no..." as soon as Polites started singing... 😭

[@garethmorton5620]

7:47 "Light went dak" refers to Polites dying. A song that wasn't in the final cut was "Your Light" which was a Polites song

[@arclight117]

It's a double meaning as it is also refering to Ody being a monster

[@RandomGuy1Billion]

​@arclight117 I think the only problem with that is she left after polyphemus. She wasn't aware of his trip to the underworld.

[@arclight117]

@@RandomGuy1Billion jorge who wrote the lyrics as a double meaning does know about him going dark however

[@slushyoilers]

@@arclight117girl but it doesnt make sense for athena to use that without her knowing abt the underworld

[@raineseth5661]

Mmm, yes. _Dak._ I was in shambles when Polites _dakked._

[@k.s.a9597]

I have a headcanon for "Love In Paradise". This isn't Odysseus's first time on the ledge. Odysseus wanted to unalive himself many times before. He went to the ledge without Calypso knowing for at least 3 times a month. He managed to restrain himself while holding some hopes left before he completely breaks. On the 7th year (The last year but Odysseus doesn't know that), he was fully determined. He was done and went to the ledge for possibly the last time. Unfortunately for him, this time, Calypso found out you know what happens next.

[@blossom6792]

How dare you take my headcanons from me >:( /j

[@МорфейМутноночный]

That sounds very Wright

[@MinecraftPigSniper]

I don’t think so, I bet he’s jumped off before only for calypso to edit the terrain like she does in the beginning. He’s totally trapped on the island to the point where he can’t even Kermit.

[@icemagiciangh]

I definitely believe he’s been there before. Maybe Calypso hasn’t caught him so close to jumping before, but I 100% believe he’s been there in prior instances.

[@Lupikus]

The attention to detail in Athena's eyes makes me happy. When she sees Odysseus her eyes immediately soften and her pupil dilates showing compassion and joy. Then the second she realizes what's going on her eyes widen and pupils constrict showing panic and fear

[@aniflowers1998]

How quick Odysseus denies Calipso compared to Circe also makes sense if you consider that there is nothing at stake anymore. With Circe, the live of his man was at stake, which is why he considered it. With Calipso? No man on the line, nothing to gain, nothing to risk. (Untill she brings up the power dynamic inbalance between them.) His only goal is to go home, and her bed can't offer him that.

[@julianaxihluke3748]

Anyone else getting flashbacks to the "all you wanna do reaction?" 😭 Sending all the hugs to you. Also knowing you love Athena as much as I do, I'm really looking forward to next week 💖

[@ashross5860]

I really appreciate your confrontation of the power dynamic issues. The reduced capacity for consent is talked about nearly exclusively in terms of age and, if you're lucky, inebriation, but it's really heartening to hear someone immediately and explicitly recognize and highlight the abuse this situation intrinsically is. I don't you know your story and I'm sorry for the circumstances that lead you to that awareness, but as a brother in that particular realm of trauma it's a validating and cathartic take, so thank you

[@SpooookyKitty]

Most people probably realize this by now, but Calypso like triggers Odysseus’s ptsd when she says open arms. Also a little detail I noticed in the animatic for that scene is that, as Ody’s dead loved ones start to add their lines, Ody looks at where the lyrics are, like he’s looking through the screen at the lyrics.

[@kittycatzuka]

He's looking for their ghosts

[@wynnefox]

Ody, the personification of PTSD wrapped too tightly in a human shell on the brink of breaking. Calypso: "I am going to do the naughties with that man..." Me: "Calypso, you're immortal. Just hang in there and Davie Jones will be there for you."

[@SkyWingFeather]

26:29 So, I’m glad you caught it here. But just a stanza earlier she said “I’ll stay inside your heart” which were his MOTHER’S last words.

[@maggies.224]

I caught the triggering "open arms" line because duh, it was the most obvious one. It immediately crashed into Odysseus and made him remember Polites and everything. I caught the "I'll stay inside your heart" after a few listenings, his mother's line. And ever since I've been wondering if Eurylochus also had a line somewhere in her words, since he's also one of the voices signing as Odysseus screams. I JUST realized that Calypso called him Ody just then, and the only other person to have called Odysseus that in this musical (to my knowledge) is Eurylochus, and in such a vulnerable moment, "Ody we're never gonna get to make it home". Like OUCH! So basically, calling him Ody and saying she'll stay in his heart was all (unintentionally) bringing him to finally break and seek help, but open arms was the one that really did him in. I am not well 😃

[@drlily8091]

22:45 Future clarification for those unaware, Calypso is (as far as I know) the daughter of the titan Atlas

[@arnavkhetan076]

i think when athena said his light went dark, jorge is referencing the cut song "your light", so athena is talking about polites dying and odyseeus starting doing non sensical things like doxxing himself

[@diablovia6950]

Yes! Thank you! I went through the comments to see if anyone commented this. It was the first thing I thought of, when Athena sung those words! I find it weird that neither mortius nor Caspar picked up on this, when they reacted to this. Especially because they are the ones who introduced me to 'your light'.

[@kateb3lle]

The way Mortius began to discuss unhealthy power dynamics in relationships, I INSTANTLY knew he had endured something similar because of the passion with which he spoke about the topic. We indeed are not our past- it does not define us!

[@acetraineraster5171]

Genuinely, thank you for this reaction. As someone who relates to specifically the ending of LiP with Ody on the ledge.... thank you.

[@anyathepanther7977]

Mortius opend my eyes. I never even thought of what People who were in an abusive relationship would feel while hearing Songs like "Love in Paradise".😨

[@Chromaggia]

I love how fast you went from being excited for Calypso to being ready to throw hands with her

[@CyrahLia_459]

I started crying during We'll be fine, Athena and Odysseus' relationship is my favourite, I love them SO MUCH (My Goodbye is what introduced me to the musical) so you best believe I started tearing up at Athena's part I can't wait to see your reactions to both of the songs! :)

[@LilacDoodle505]

We'll be fine is my favorite because of how wholesome it is! Telemachus is just like, "You're my friend now :]" and it's just so sweet

[@akaittou]

I used to think Athena and Odysseus had one of those really unhealthy power dynamic things going on, based on lines (and the way they were delivered) like "i see you changing from _how I've designed you",_ "have you forgotten your purpose", "don't disappoint me", "you failed the test", and "this way you'll know what your place is". Just, not the romantic relationship example of one. It really felt like she was taking advantage of the fact he saw them as friends to use him for her own ends, and saw him not as a person but a tool. We'll Be Fine showed that she didn't, that what mistakes she made weren't intentional, which makes all the difference. She actually realised the mistakes she'd made, even if it was too late to prevent the fallout, and is trying to actively fix things. The Wisdom Saga is so much about her redemption, and that's honestly so beautiful.

[@adamsfamily286]

This song made me tear up too, because I watched an animatic where a young Odysseus (or Telemachus I'm not sure tbh) run towards Athena with a little wooden statue of her. Then it closes up to the statue and the wood aging, which means Athena kept it and it's things like this that ALWAYS get me. I'll look up the channel so y'all can see for yourselves ❤❤ Edit: the name is YourLocalAnimations

[@Autumn-xs1bt]

@@adamsfamily286it's Telemachus from what I know

[@erosennin211]

Someone brought this point up to me earlier, but in relation to Ody saying “Just let me close my eyes” remember the last time we saw him do so in both Keep Your Friends Close and Thunder Bringer when he did so he saw Penelope and Telemachus. So in a sense he’s begging for a chance to see them again, even if it’s only a dream 😭

[@readingwizard2394]

Just came from Casper’s video. Both of you reacting the same to Calypso saying “Open Arms” is hilarious and honestly completely accurate. “HOW DARE YOU”😂

[@reneehunt5590]

While Ody is on Circe's island, the clock ticking sound stops; symbolizing time does not pass. Very cool and lore accurate detail

[@RBLeMoyne]

If I'm not crying by the end of We'll Be Fine, I will be by the end of Love in Paradise. Without fail, those two songs hit me right in the feels.

[@micah_eagle]

I unfortunately was in a similar situation for 7 years. So when Calypso was crooning “you’re mine, all mine” I felt my skin crawl because that’s exactly how abusers sound. They sound so sweet and gentle but their words are always so filled with violent undertones. That ex did something similar in telling me that I was his and his alone, and I unfortunately felt extremely trapped by him. The way she kept disregarding his wants and desires and forcing him to stay there and be what she wanted him to be made me shed a tear because it’s so horrible to be in such a relationship where it feels like you’re on a deserted island with them, with no way to escape, and I imagine it’s worse to think of that as reality. He genuinely had nowhere to run and nobody to help him, and he screamed for the one person he had left who could help him and even then he wasn’t sure she would even answer his call.

[@wintersong1235]

Love in Paradise was so much heavier of a song than I anticipated but yeah like you said, it’s really touching to see topics like this addressed so well and in such integral way to the story

[@JewelShadow]

Big hugs for you 🫂💔 This one hurts. And it's also beautiful Also "How DARE you" is exactly my reaction to her using open arms

[@sarahhandberg5185]

Not mortius going “and then I didn’t!” And me going “okay John mulaney”

[@officialmortius]

I’m so glad you caught the reference that was 100% intentional

[@dorothyrosenberg1301]

Thank you for sharing your trauma. Unfortunately, most have experienced abusive power experiences. Your example and assurances are appreciated. Survival leaves scars but also makes one stronger. Again, thank you.

[@Insert-Name-Here16]

I'm pretty sure no one else mentioned this but during We'll Be Fine, Telemachus' part where he goes "Athena, I don't know who your friend is", It's the Open Arms Instrumentals. So, technically, Polites gets to be mentioned three times: Athena saying Odysseus' light went dark which is a reference to Your Light, Telemachus having Open Arms Instrumentals, and Odysseus hearing the faded voice of Polites in Love in Paradise. I am never listening to Open Arms the same ever again after the Wisdom Saga. :')

[@madame.rosier]

Actually, kinda four times, because when Telemachus says 'tell me Athena why you came to my aid' is the same melody for Polites' 'what keeps you up so late at night my friend?' in the cut song Ismarus

[@K1yoshu]

One interesting bit is that when the voices cut out, Eurylochus is saying "You Rely on Wit" as Odysseus calls out for Athena.

[@sammjaisais7135]

23:45 yeah, and also, Calypso is at the same level as the Olympians. As in, she fought against them during the war between the gods and the Titans and that's why she was sentenced to be stuck forever in that island. The gods occasionally send her men that she remarkably unsuccessfully tries to get to agree to stay with her in exchange for herself and immortality.

[@DinoandGalaxy]

Didn’t she fight on the side of the titans cus atlas was her father?

[@sofialu226]

You didn't get much into detail but I appreciate you talking about your own experience. I always hated how society barely talks about Male Victims or usually don't take their statements seriously. That "You are more than your Past" is a great say. Happy you got out of that situation and for anyone going through the same or similar, I hope your future awaits with a Bright light, fight for it and ask for help if needed.

[@batgirl8973]

Oh bro 1. Youre very strong and I respect you for bein in your feels on this. Its a mighty thing to do. 2. You aint gonna survive God Games. I wish you luck

[@x_glitched]

29:30 when you started to cry I did too, it's a very emotional heavy song and it's honestly beautiful how you turned this video into a teaching and healing thing for us to watch. Sending you hugs 🤗

[@HeelOfAchillies]

I recently saw a tiktok that was the Odyssey from Athenas pov and it was specifically Ody telling Penelope about what he went through with Calypso and Circe and it genuinely had me utterly heartbroken because you could feel how powerless he felt in those moments. Hes a soldier and King and hes fought a 10 long year war and just wants to get home and to be treated like that and feel so utterly useless and powerless is something immagineable like everything youve built up lost, all that strength because there really is nothing you can do with a power dynamic like that.

[@Felix0802]

Was it a book? What's the name?

[@HeelOfAchillies]

​@@Felix0802sorry just saw this but I think the person was writing a book about the Odyssey but from Athenas perspective it's not out yet as far as I know

[@puttpupper]

28:24 thanks very much as someone who is still on my healing journey this song hurts a lot and this helps very much!

[@clairethompson5549]

28:29 Mortius! Buddy! Out here just encouraging everyone while you’re also reliving trauma 🩷 My tissue budget increases significantly on Epic drop days. You are such a gosh darn gem of a human being

[@linnywines8014]

Calypso is absolutely in the wrong here, no doubt, but she reminds me of the cycle of violence and the adage that “hurt people hurt people” She’s an immortal goddess living on an island she has complete control over, but she’s alone. She has absolutely no one and isolation can drive a person mad Her response to finding what she at first thought was a dead body on her beach wasn’t “ew” it was “I think I’m gonna hang out with this corpse for a bit” Girl is absolutely fucked up in the head to the point where she thinks she’s grasping at straws, but in reality she’s gripping a knife by the blade so tightly that it’s sliced through to the bone-and she’s so convinced that the searing pain has to be something good, that it has to mean something, that she hasn’t even noticed the infection setting in Odysseus needs to get home asap because there is no reasoning with this level of desperate-and Calypso needs a dog or a cat or something

[@liminalpsych]

This is a beautifully nuanced description of the situation. Thank you for demonstrating how to sympathize with someone and wishing better for them while also not condoning their actions or the harm they've done and also noting that the victim cannot (and shouldn't) reason with or change or rescue the other person in this dynamic.

[@zjmiller6627]

I know there’s so many people saying “haha I love seeing other people experience the sad parts of the song haha” but honestly I just love seeing the look on your face when you hear a good harmony or high note, brings me a lot of joy as someone who also loves those moments.

[@AwakenedRAGEJustin]

21:40 CAPTAIN! CAPTAIN! CAPTAIN! *CAPTAIN! WHY WOULD YOU LET THE KZbin LIVE WHEN RUTHLESSNESS IS MERCY!*

[@rayanlima1799]

ALL I HEAR ARE STREAMS

[@Artemis_wolf.]

KZbin: Die Winions: CAPTAIN! CAPTAIN! CAPTAIN! CAPTAIN!

[@kyrabergen3553]

Thank you so much for your kind words about healing from trauma. I deeply appreciate how honest and open with your viewers you're able to be about your past and moving forward from things like that. On top of that, stellar reaction overall. I definitely cried over Polites too.

[@akaittou]

After watching Mortius do is ICKY! ICKY! at neal's thunder bringer Zeus, I couldn't wait for this reaction... I didn't know lil morty had a crush on PJ Calypso though, that makes me feel a little bad for him... Since, you know, Calypso was the explicitly clear and undeniable case out of the situations where Odysseus suffered SA in the original Homerian telling of the story 😬

[@breannadahlinghaus8209]

4:48 I've been waiting for you and Casper to notice the friendship!! I'm so glad you picked up on that!!!

[@maddocks97]

I've heard this so many times but that latter part of Love In Paradise geniuely breaks me everytime. The pain in Jorges voice is so perfect and the cries of desperation. To me, this song is such a perfect culmination of everything so far. I could go on about it for hours. And thats without delving into the amazing artists that made the animatic and the threads they all weaved.

[@darrylspicer5535]

just so you know, Calypso used words from hias loved ones to convince him to come back inside we know she hear odyssey talk it his sleep eurylochus "ody" his mom- "I'll stay in your polites sorry- "open arms"

[@ParsureArts]

AAAAAAAAHHHH

[@Internetrando01]

Yea but there's a difference between she hearing the name of his wife and her hearing his tragic backstory while he sleeps

[@geoguessrplayer1]

you mean polites for open arms, right? /nm /info

[@Astrophel24]

@@Internetrando01 She doesnt have to hear the entirety of his tragic backstory; it's already told to us Odysseus sleep talks and its said in the song how he can "hear their screams". I think it's pretty obvious he had nightmares about those specific moments; the moments before Polites died, seeing his mother in the underworld, and eurylochus saying Ody when referring to him during a tense moment.

[@Internetrando01]

@@Astrophel24 if she knew that'd trigger him how would that benefit her? It's not like she has control over the situation and is manipulating him to stay, the thing she'd want would be for him to like her more. She'd seem genuinely worried for his wellbeing (although coming from a more selfish perspective) and doesn't seem manipulative at all since we meet her. The animations are cannon and we see her being very expressive and not really caring to keep thingsnin her head. she seem more childish that anything. When he talks in his sleep we only know he says Penelope. Also the whole point of he hear their screams is that he has trouble sleeping because of it so I doubt he's been getting much sleep anyways. Again, idk how triggering him would benefit her in any way. Her number 1 goal here would be to get him to like her more, and this doesn't help that. Even if she was actually super manipulative, she doesnt need to convince him to stay there by breaking him emotionally, he has no control over that. It's messed up that she keeps him trapped but I don't like when people assign extra faults to make a character look worse for no reason

[@Cherypopin7]

"its enough to make a grown man cry, and thats ok"- Officer Earl Devereaux, cloudy and a chance of meatballs

[@Omega_WoIf]

Hugs for Mortius and anyone else that has gone through something like this 🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂🫂

[@drana150]

It's always been our belief that Polites represents hope, especially after he's gone, and that's why Ody holds his memory so close and treasures it the way he does. In that moment, all those voices, hope, love, and reason resonate in him. And it's our belief that, since Athena is looking back on this through his memories, he stepped away from the ledge himself, which we find incredibly powerful. We're all on this healing journey together, and there might be someone out there waiting for you too. If things can't get worse, why not hold on a little longer? Why not try to reach out, even if you're sure there's nobody willing to help you? We called ourselves the hope system for a reason. It's a reminder, more than a name. For those of us who have seen hell hope can be hard to find. But it's always there, or we wouldn't be here. We really do appreciate how Jorge has handled the topic of SA, and are hoping he brings it home with other songs. Male SA victims are so RARELY focused on or even believed that it would be really refreshing to see Ody go on his own sort of healing arc (I'm sure most of us have seen comfort animatics where penelope talks to him and doesn't blame him which we find increidbly healing) Also fun fact about LIP: This song was the first time we heard our fictive Polites speak (he may well have split during it) and the thing he said was when Calypso said "ody, step away from that ledge" He said "DONT YOU DARE CALL HIM THAT" (he was ready to kill a b!tch 😆). So yeah, Polites agrees with you

[@samerathalthedragon1920]

Thanks for acknowledging the nuance in works having these themes. Also, In "We'll be fine" when athena says ody lost his light, I always took it as him loosing Polites; and thats why there was such an emphasis on finding your light in the song. As like a callback to cut song? I really like your take about him losing himself tho. Take care Mortius

[@PupGamer93]

Someone on another reaction of Love in Paradise pointed out that Polites' "This life is amazing" being softer might mean that after 10 years, Odysseus is starting to forget Polites voice and I sobbed so hard! It's hard when you forget what your loved one's voice sounded like!

[@rudderfluff1307]

The scene with him on the ledge is so expressive from the animators work, Jorge killing it with the screams, the recollections of all the people he has loved and lost all coming to build into a cacophony in his mind only to call out to the last possible being that could maybe help is so beautiful and so tragic. The screams in particular get me every time. I have been where he is in my own life before and it hits that traumatic well deep inside. That said i love this song so much for all the things that make it so painful. The first time I heard this song I had to stop it after he cried for Athena and ugly cry. So moving and so beautiful.

[@trial_with_an_error9687]

A month late but I love how at the end of Love In Paradise the first ghost Ody hears is Polites. His spirit has been the one haunting Ofy for the longest, yet unlike the visage of Penelope singing Waiting, or Eurlochys' mutiny, Polites isn't singing at him, but to him. Then the final gutpunch isn't Polites being the faintest voice, but becoming the last voice Ody hears before calling out for Athena. Even in death, even in his memories, Polites has been singing Open Arms to Ody, and finally at the end of his rope, Ody gives in. His opens his arms, lays his heart bare, and screams out to Athena for help, and she answers him. Polites saved his life, again.

[@ktq410]

After seeing him cry, I really want to give him a hug

[@MarrowCrest]

I have a headcannon surrounding Love in Paradise. towards the end of the sone when Calypso uses the line "stay in my open arms", its my theory that her using that line pushes Odysseus from a borderline panic attack into a full blown dissociation, because that's her last line in the song. Given what we've seen so far, she's not one to shut up, so its not that she isn't singing anymore its that Odysseus can't hear her any more, because now literally all he can hear are the screams of his men and the only thing he can think of to help him in that moment is to call out to Athena, the one divine that might help him.

[@alexfierro6834]

Also jalapeno is genius with lyrics and the actress nailed the tone because look at her wording and tone:"she's my wife""anyways" her brushing it off like it doesn't matter to her because it doesn't. It doesn't stop her. "You have all that you want here all that you need here" she's trying to manipulate him into staying by giving him resources, basically saying:"hey if you stay here you'll have anything you want" she's bribing him. It's a gr**ming tactic ppl use. She knows she's higher status than him. "Last I check goddesses can't 💀" look at her tone. It's saying:"oh you sweetie it's adorable you think that'll work we're not on the same level I'm better than you more powerful" just look at her tone. It's the same tone you'd use for a dog. She's basically saying:"I'm more powerful you can't do anything to me". Next one:"your mine all mine" it's the final nail in the coffin. She's telling him:"your mine and there's nothing you can do about it

[@Emunah_]

Man this reaction touched me because I haven't heard too many other folks touch on the power dynamic issue. Also when you got all teary I was like "Are you okay?" and then was like frick he can't hear me! Looking forward to see what you think of God Games! My friend and I flipped lol.

[@Aureus_Snow]

30:40 When I first listened to this song I immagined him reaching up and then falling to his knees because there's no one there to hold him up at the time. I immagined that when he was smaller and tired after a day worth of training he whould hold Athena's hand to stay upright as they walked back towards Ithaca, so now he reached up... Hoping for Athena's hand to holdhim upright until he got home once more. But it wasn't there so he fell to his knees.

[@josefinagonzalezdamico4538]

Calypso said 3 things that triggered him: Ody, what Eurylochus called him (how much longer until your luck runs out), I'll stay inside your heart, what his mother said in the underwold (waitingggg) and open arms (this life is amazing) So yeah. Just to make sure we're all crying

[@Ekami-chan]

I LOVE the change in Calypso's voice with "goddesses can't die. You're adorable, bow down to immortal." It's so powerful! ...and yeaah, in original Odysseus both Kirke and Calypso...forced Odysseus.

[@disableddragonborn]

"We'll Be Fine" is the best show of character growth I've ever seen. Act One Athena was incapable of that level of self-awareness and considering how her behavior could make things worse. Now she understands that she contributed to Odysseus's devolution into an evil monster. She could've handled things differently.

[@Karii_Sophiee]

He is not ready for the second part of love in paradise 💀

[@phoenix_a9344]

One thing I'd like to point out is that with Circe, Odysseus knew that she would try to seduce him (as Eurylochus had warned him that that's how the rest of their men got captured) and was playing along with her as he knew it was partially going to be a battle of wits and also had a plan (with the help of Hermes). With Calypso, he is at his lowest point, having lost Polities, Eurylochus, and the entire rest of his crew, and is farther away from home than ever (he doesn't even know where he is), and literally just desperately wants to collapse in his wife's arms again. This man is TIRED and has no more patience for seduction tricks or games, so yeah he will absolutely immediately pull out his sword on Calypso. This song did a great job of showing his desperation and hopelessness.

[@SiIker.]

EPIC the musical is just a bundle of "But WAIT- there's more 😃"

[@gegenlichtblick]

the tears i shed when you said that you are so much more than your past and we are too... mortius you didn't know how much i needed to hear this right now :( thank you for being so open and vocal about these things whenever you are analyzing triggering topics ♥