I hope this BTS analysis ISN'T a bombshell!?!

[@icebergmike]

I think the problem here is that the NPR Tiny Desk sessions present themselves as stripped back performances, so by introducing this high level of post-production, it feels like a betrayal

[@bencheshire]

The home concerts were like take home exams. Anyone could cheat.

[@klienart]

You cant escape this with Kpop nowadays, everything gets touched post. Even for really talented vocalists who are actually performing live- the recording that gets uploaded to youtube is still touched up. Its so frustrating! So many fans want to hear the raw performance.

[@kristin123a]

That's not only Kpop. Everything is. Even Idol, X-factor and whatever show is auto tuned and all the pop stars do it.

[@DavidB.Rockin]

I've checked out 90s/00s kpop I prefer that over modern kpop because it rminds me of 90s/00s jpop. There is this one modern kpop singer that kinda sounds like Aimer.

[@asianiewie9142]

With the growing popularity of kpop (I'm a fan myself, because it's an interesting idea of selling music, quite different from ours), it would be interesting to hear from you some longer analysis of live performances by kpop artists - for example at concerts. Because kpop fans are often convinced that their favourite kpop groups just sing live so perfectly and at the same time dance very complicated choreographies.

[@SongwritingDeconstructed]

There's a video by the youtuber Sideways called 'the problem with autotune' that touches on this, with BTS specifically, showing them performing on uhh The Jimmy Kimmel Show I think, and pointing out where live vocals were replaced with lip syncing because it is simply not physically possible to dance in a manner that causes jolts to the diapghragm while singing, without that 'jolt' coming through in the voice. It doesn't matter how much vocal coaching you have or how much you practice while running on a treadmill (though that's still def worth doing for improved breath control in general). You can't beat biology on that one

[@GaynorThomas]

I've wondered for years what was going on with modern music and thanks to you I now do. I had no idea auto-tune could be used for "live" performances until watching your videos, I'd previously assumed it could only be applied in the studio. I wish someone would start a non-auto-tune chart! I'd listen!

[@eileenmcchrystal8471]

You do realise that there are tons of BTS video live performances which aren’t auto tuned 🙈? Don’t always trust what you see on the internet 😂😝.

[@randall5073]

@@eileenmcchrystal8471 How do you know they aren’t auto-tuned? Maybe you shouldn't trust everything you see on the internet.

[@eileenmcchrystal8471]

@@randall5073 because I can actually hear & there are sharps & flats while they’re dancing 🙈. I’m 62 I know the difference 🙄

[@randall5073]

@@eileenmcchrystal8471 So what you're saying is they sound crappy with auto-tune and they sound crappy without Auto-Tune. I prefer musician to actually try to sound good.

[@eileenmcchrystal8471]

@@randall5073 good try for the twist 😂 but no they don’t sound crappy without auto tune. Have you had a listen?

[@lisat776]

I like hearing the human quality in their voices. Like Freddy Mercury, Simon and Garfunkel, Neil Diamond! The harmonies. Frank Sinatra. Darn. I enjoyed Fred Astaire who could “sing a little” Because they sound human. You explained it perfectly.

[@kristin123a]

That's also the problem. There are clips of Freddy doing an amazing performance despite being a little to very pitchy and/or having to alter the melody to be able to sing it. Now we're only exposed to pitch perfect singing all the time. Even "live" performances are either live auto tuned or corrected in post production. When you actually hear people sing live you'd hear one note off and think they're a bad singer, when in fact that is only natural.

[@eileenmcchrystal8471]

@@kristin123a there are loads & loads of video of BTS singing live, a Capella and clearly without auto tune (while dancing), disingenuous to choose these Eng language pop songs (nowt wrong with a good 3 min pop song btw) when they have 8 years body of work and sing in Korean dealing with complex themes.

[@MsAppassionata]

@@kristin123a That pitch perfect crap is a colossal bore. They might as well save their money, stay home and listen to some of these people, if that’s what they want to do. I really feel nostalgia for the days before auto tune. You could very easily separate the great singers from the more mediocre ones. Now, it’s hard for kids to know who’s doing what in live performances. It really is a shame, plus it stifles creativity and the unique qualities of each singers voice.

[@triplej8666]

As a classic rock fan as well as a BTS fan this is the last video I expected from you 😆I also didn't like this performance very much, as the vocals sound obviously autotuned, but It doesn't bother me since I know these guys can sing live, and they do in many of their full live concerts, although I don't like the direction their recent songs are going, the song "'Dynamite'' in particular was their first full-english song, and was the start of their ''generic western pop'' sound and since then they have released 2 more full english songs, and they all have 1 thing in common - they are autotuned into the ground to the point where it sounds unpleasant. Please don't just take away that they can't sing from this, these guys are the full package, professional dancers, rappers, vocalists, great performers, actors, producers, lyricists, songwriters (yes they produce and write their own music unlike 95% of todays artists) I would recommend to anyone to not judge them from this, there is much more interesting songs in their discography.

[@eileenmcchrystal8471]

Cheers, exactly what I’ve been saying 👍. Not fond of the English language songs but they’re targeted for a specific market. Not that there’s anything wrong with a good 3 minute pop song (Beatles - She Loves You & many more). Hope they get back to Korean songs soon though.

[@lovepilie]

I agree with you, I feel that the songs picked are actually amongst their most autotuned ones... Their Permission to dance Live in Seoul (the one live streamed in theaters) was, I believe, very light on autotune and backtracks, and would make better material for an analysis! Their english songs are autotuned, and Save me is part of their EDM style tracks so per definition... for these songs, when live, they do use voice effects (if one singer comes too close to the one using the effect on his mike, both voices get distorted), so I don't know, some might call it cheating, other might say it helps sounding more like the recorded version for selected bits? I am no autotune fan, I genuinely feel like they usually don't over-use it and rely on "helper" backtracks mostly for their choreography heavy performances. Ok I'm biased lol

[@Athanza]

Thank you TripleJ! I second this comment. BTS can actually sing very very well, I have no idea why tinydesk felt the need to auto tune this performance. I also agree with the point that their new music is more about trying to please western audiences.

[@kailambert95]

Yeah. There are plenty of videos from v lives or just random videos of them singing randomly or whatever and they sound amazing. I really hate when people just take things out of context and especially their English songs. It’s like, let’s hear other singers who’s native language isn’t close to what language they are singing in and have them do it. Or try to sing in Korean or another language they don’t know how to speak at all and see how difficult it is and how out of tune they are as a result.

[@t4phage2003]

Bravo! Excellent discussion and hypotheticals which may eventuate in the very near future.

[@Daverotherham]

As a small time singer who started before auto tune and has never used it, what I see as problematic about using it in real time is that surely it would push you off your pitch further and further, until you sang so far off that it snapped a semitone out and sounded really terrible. If the pitch you hear in the monitor is not the pitch you are really singing , I would have thought it would be disorienting

[@JonHarris77]

No direct experience, but I would think it might have the opposite effect. When you hear what the pitch is "supposed" to be in your ear, that would tend to draw you back to it, not fight it and get further away. Much like singing along with a pre-recorded track, where you can hear/feel the beat frequencies of your voice against the reference. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has actually tried this!

[@deltab9768]

Not to saturate the comments with "she who shall not be named" but here's what's allegedly a recording of an in ear monitor track for a pop singer: m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/bp3Scp9-itissLs There's tuned instrumental cues, and also their untuned voice so they can compare and adjust. Obviously different vocalists have different preferences. Some might want to just listen to the drummer and their own raw voice.

[@kristin123a]

I've seen one clip of Justin Bieber struggling with his live auto tune at least. If you want to improvise a little it'll be a total mess.

[@kristin123a]

Actually in several of their behind the scenes videos from these "Covid live" performances you can hear longer or shorter snippets of their non-edited voices. They do actually perform live without auto tune, but I guess the view among pop singers(or their companies) is that if you _can_ edit the voices in post production before they're posted to KZbin or showed at Corden, why wouldn't you? This is what people expect now. Pitch perfect to the point it sometimes sounds like a machine. And these are boys with lovely voices who possibly could be "allowed" to be lazy about their vocals because their company is gonna edit them anyway. And people in the West pretend like this is some Kpop issue? Have you listened to Bieber? Ariana? Charlie Puth? They all do the same thing both those who are average vocalists and those who are excellent. That being said, there are many killer vocalists in Kpop as they will be able to get professional coaching and train every day for, usually, at least two years full time before making their debut.

[@johnnymoondog]

I call Autotune " Irritating Vowel Syndrome ! "

[@diannelovejoy5514]

I don't know the proper terminology, but there is no richness to their voices. That's why I still prefer vintage videos and artists with no auto tune.

[@michaelbradley7529]

This makes me wish autotune had never been invented. I see it as a crutch for the under talented.

[@chicagogirl4everanda]

That may be true for a lot of artists, but BTS proves consistently they are incredibly talented without autotune as well

[@michaelbradley7529]

@@chicagogirl4everanda With examples like this that is increasingly hard to trust.

[@adrxdeedrich5091]

Erm, this man is bull shit , if u knew anything about bts vocalists u would know they not some autotune singers, they always sing without mics randomly on their vlives, they sang on Ryan seacrest radio show , they sang without mics in Many interviews and many enfineers hve broken down , dissected their album productions and their live showshows and have concluded that erm 3 years of training afforded them the opportunity to sing well , 7 members stood after 50 trainees , 3 years of training , they chose the best , not shit , therefore they sing without mics regularly

[@michaelbradley7529]

@@adrxdeedrich5091 You seem like a super fan who only heard auto tune and pitch correction and decided to stop listening after that. He is showing undeniable evidence for these two performances only and not making the claim that every performance is using auto tune and or pitch correction. It's entirely possible that BTS wasn't even aware that it was done. Even someone as well trained as Dimash has had producers mess with his performances after the fact (unknown to Dimash). I recommend watching the video all the way thru before fan raging.

[@eileenmcchrystal8471]

@@adrxdeedrich5091 yep you’re spot on. Also there are many other live videos, including a Capella. that are not auto tuned that this person could have chosen to review.

[@AshYo]

This was interesting. I suppose that I might have something to contribute to the conversation because I do follow this group (your Karen Carpenter video is on my watch list because I LOVED her voice). I hope that what I have is helpful (more edits coming as I drop links). They’re known in their industry for singing with the backing tracks to their songs. Cue sheets have been leaked and when some other K-pop groups are lip syncing this group isn’t. They’re terrible at lip syncing. They have performances where they’re “off” a bit in their notes, where they’ve missed cues to come in…..in short they aren’t perfect. 🤷‍♀️ They have also released content where they’re in the studio doing the vocals too. I didn’t know auto tune was a pedal that had to be actively employed out of the studio….I guess I kinda thought it was in the mics and just always engaged….? 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ Anyway maybe watch these links? It sounds like using a pedal for the auto tune would be very complicated during a live performance, but they do practice a lot so it’s possible? But I don’t know about post production….that seems very disingenuous considering this is a group known for their sincerity, but who knows what the bosses would have decided or what NPR (wouldn’t they get in trouble too for misleading about this performance when they’re a reputable news organization if it wasn’t live and that’s how it was advertised? 🤔) would have agreed to. - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJbWY6Wwi96FrKM dynamite at MMA 2020 (missed cue) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hnqum4GXqqh7sMU A Song For You - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rJqwkJZje8hqqcU My Universe Coldplay documentary - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6nOXqhrrcqmfqs A song for a show they did, kinda for fun (also their 3 rappers sang) - kzbin.info/www/bejne/omTEgWyFpM2XsMk 1st concert in person in two years and “off” notes - kzbin.info/www/bejne/hKDblKWPjtuInKM last in person concert. Studio version of this song is heavily auto tuned to simulate drowning and mix their vocals as the song is about an artist losing their passion (their first death) and when it is performed that’s when you hear the differences in who is singing (I remember the fandom looked forward to the first performance to find out who sang which part because it was so heavily auto tuned)

[@heidichristensen7919]

Another very obvious use of a backing vocal is on the Saturday Night Live version of Mic Drop. Vocals are happening but no one’s lips are moving. Personally I don’t have a problem with lip syncing. I grew up in the 70s watching American Bandstand for Pete’s sake. Every group on there, including ABBA and the Carpenters, lip sync’d. To me it’s not a big deal. And as I mentioned before, BTS has tons of videos where there is no mic, just one of them singing in front of their phone - ever since they started in 2013. It’s easy to find their actual singing voices.

[@wingsofpegasus]

If the artist is 'there' performing, it is referred to as 'live' regardless of whether a backing track or auto-tune is being used. It's something a lot of people don't realise, thats a 'live' performance doesn't mean what it used to!

[@AshYo]

@@wingsofpegasus Ohhhhhhhhhhh! Thank you! Good to know!

[@drewpall2598]

@@wingsofpegasus So True Fil, 👍

[@chicagogirl4everanda]

Thank you for this, army!

[@dorylis56]

Ah, they do love effects, especially in the studio versions of songs. One of the reason they're so popular, though, is their live vocals in concerts (and perfs). I never like artists live but many BTS songs actually sounds better in concerts, in my opinion, because of raw-er vocals and ad libs. The rapline is also solid live performers. Most fans have favorite album songs, BTS fans have favorite concerts era and can give you their 3 favorite versions of one given song in concerts. One member, Jungkook, has done several lives where he does songs live on request, and he sings crazy good. (He does sing with the karaoke mic sometimes though, I tell you they like effects on voices)

[@michaeldougherty2807]

If they actually put those out, people wouldn't be questioning their abilities.

[@dorylis56]

@@michaeldougherty2807 It's all out, 8 years of live concerts, so many performances, with really high highs and, yes, a few shaky or off pitch moments. The videos from their concerts have so many many views. I don't think these choices are necessarily about ability. It's just how they chose to do it for pre recorded perfs. People can definitely think it would be better done differently, I personally love when we hear their rawer vocals. (I thought I would put a few links to live concerts but then I spent 2 hours watching lives I had not yet seen. He he he I had fun though )

[@bee12117]

@@michaeldougherty2807 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eYHIk2d_o7mJaqs kzbin.info/www/bejne/ema2f4GggtyAntE kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIXHpWiarqmcoas kzbin.info/www/bejne/o5O6c4CknqmCf9U There is 500+ more videos like this

[@dorylis56]

@@bee12117 Ah, thank you, Jungkook is a great choice ;-) He sings all the time. I was thinking live concerts but got lost in them and ended up watching them for 2 hours. Like this kzbin.info/www/bejne/jISTZoeeh8-HisU I think they sing in Japanese instead of Korean though.

[@lobaetoile8440]

That's true... And it's also because they're exellent performers, know how to communicate with the crowd, and because the live band is amazing and the arrangements are great. I wish they could release those versions, with the band.

[@jljones4839]

As a musician ,also, most people don't listen like we do. We not only hear the music but feel and crave the heartfelt, honest performance. Even us piano and string ( violin, cello -- fretless) work very hard to hit the pitch real close every time. And the electronic tuning seems to take some of the energy, the realness away. Maybe it's just me, but I do want a real, heartfelt performance, warts and all. There's a give and take energy between performer and listener that is so "magic" for both. I want to hear the wood for piano, and the flesh and emotions of the singer vibrate Sorry, I hope this makes sense. BTW, sure enjoy your channel.

[@janbarnes9377]

I totally agree with you! I like to listen to Cream's Sunshine of Your Love to hear all the musical nuances of the drums and guitars! I just think it sounds more musical than the electronically manipulated "music".

[@jljones4839]

@@janbarnes9377 YES!

[@the_bottomfragger]

Agreed. And while we work for perfect intonation in the practice room, some of the imperfections can make it even better in a concert. If you play everything completely equally (if able of course) without any interpretation in the intonation it sounds bland from a string or wind instrument.

[@theneonchimpchannel9095]

Auto tune is the reason we're seeing more movie musicals. In the past, they'd have to find actors who could sing. Now, they can cast Pierce Brosnon or Meryl Streep or whoever else and make them not sound completely tone deaf.

[@wingsofpegasus]

😂👍

[@helenjohnson7583]

This video shows how great your patience and breath control are! Perhaps we need a new category for vocal music. Thanks for putting it out there and on record!

[@Ascension721]

I admire the courage of you to analyse BTS, their stans can harass people for even talking slightly negatively about the group. I seriously wish I had the confidence you have. Great analysis of this group. Ive always wondered how fans dont get sick of hearing this all the time. Even the older fans...

[@wingsofpegasus]

I think it's easier when it's factually backed up rather than just an opinion, the vocal waveforms don't lie!

[@GordonHeaney]

I don't think Fil will be too worried, he's just pointing out facts. I'd just say there were shit, the vocals are a mess, but Fil is more diplomatic.

[@durabelle]

I think Fil is safe, an average BTS fan won't understand even half of what's being said in this analysis, and they can't get through 20 minutes without seeing their idols faces and dance moves 😆

[@chicagogirl4everanda]

@@durabelle you must have a really low view of humanity since BTS is the biggest group in the world right now then.

[@crelgen1588]

@@chicagogirl4everanda I think most people have a really low view of humanity. Also, popular appeal has never been a vote of confidence for quality. Not saying that BTS never produced anything of quality, I quite like a few of their songs like "Tomorrow" and "Moving on".

[@pookiepookie8669]

The nice thing about being old is I grew up listening to REAL singers and GREAT music where they had to created their own sound. If you couldn't sing, you did not make it in the industry. These people sound like the cartoon, The Chipmunks . . . ALVIN! Yes, you said their names correctly. M/V weren't my thing, I was into R&R or alternative. M/V had the look and could dance for the video. It was just a new form of the old payola in the music industry's non-ending sell-out. That was when music really started into the nose dive we are in currently. You must look and dance great to be a singer. Again, glad I'm old.

[@julzy3]

I wouldn't want to pay to see a live performance with this talk box technology - I could just listen on my device of choice in my venue of choice. But to each their own. You do you, boo! as is said today,😁🖤🤘

[@Anne-pd2hk]

It was their first time performing that particular song with a live band. They've toured with a live band before.

[@timfenton7469]

To be honest, I’m not happy with auto tune or talk box. Natural is best.

[@HailToTheMeep]

This comment section: Why analog phone is better than digital. Why fossil fuel is more organic than electricity 🙄

[@astrophelgates]

some of their live performances have been autotuned recently because it fits the aesthetic. I cant say theyve been open about it, but as you mentioned its pretty noticeable. I think almost all of their other live performances that arent from the last year or so arent autotuned. Their SNL performances are a pretty good example off the top of my head. Also just a note, its definitely not their first time performing with a live band. They have a live band at their concerts.

[@MrsHeeroYuy01]

I know I'm late on this video but I just found your videos. It was the first time singing THAT track with a live band. They've toured with a live band. They can play several instruments, but they don't USUALLY play on stage. I'd love to see your analysis of any of these: their cover of Fix You by Coldplay the performance of The Astronaut at the Coldplay concert in Argentina (a solo song by Jin which Chris Martin helped produce) House of Cards or Pied Piper (BTS) Jungkook singing on vlive (vlive is a livestream service for artists, JK likes to sing to us) if you like behind the scenes, the collab with Coldplay "My Universe" has a behind the scenes showing them in the studio with Chris Martin. & no definitely wouldn't be happy with talk box.

[@cherocu]

You Are wasting your time, this guy won't react to BTS ever again because his audience can't handle """"kpop"""" 😮‍💨 bts are amazing and they dont need this guys approval. Also, listen to ILL BE THERE by JIN!! Out NOW!!

[@cherocu]

@@DoubleMonoLRWe Are not talking about kpop in general here, we Are talking about BTS specifically. I don't really care about kpop because everybody knows lip sync and autorune is very common in pre-recorded "live" performances. The person above us was so nice and gave examples for bts' members raw vocals to watch and react. And if i remember correctly, the reactor made very crude and biased remarks without knowing any context about this tiny desk performance, so it's obvious he went with just this song in ENGLISH, pre-recorded and EDITED and ran with it, not questioning wether there are better examples or not. He WAS expecting this result because it's obvious he doesnt like the genre. And btw, there are a lot of very talented vocalists in Kpop (apart from BTS) with videos of their non-edited vocals out there, you just have to search. Commoners won't comprehend.

[@jimstiles26287]

I am glad that I am old because people won't think that I am weird for not liking modern popular music.

[@CTyotaBlue]

Thanks for the content. I think people are quick to judge BTS because of the word "pop." Bottom line is that they've had a hand in writing their own lyrics and producing their own sound since the beginning. They are the full package and they work hard at it every day. There's TONS of content out there to either reinforce or dispute any opinion people may have of them.

[@CTyotaBlue]

Would love if you reviewed So Yang's performance here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHfcn5eBbruCec0

[@SoneaT]

I really like Dynamite and a few others, despite the fact I did hear the autotune on it. I don't mind it if I like the melodies and the lyrics. But when they have a hand on everything, even on post production, why on earth would they put on autotune? I have heard a short acapella for Dynamite and it sounded awesome, way more beautiful than the recording! ( And they can put on filters with autotune on mics or do it in post productions after). Is it a thing all of the music studios in Kpop require nowadays? Or they don't have a say in it?

[@crelgen1588]

In Kpop even the "impromptu" encore stages get rehearsed, prerecorded, touched- up and lip-synced nowadays, unfortunately. It's less of a music industry and more of a parasocial marketing machine, with the people being the product, then the performance and the music being more of an afterthought.

[@jakeywilliams]

Why does the old smash advert comes to my mind when I hear these guys singing? 😁

[@janbarnes9377]

These guys are fun to watch. But the tinny nasal sound of their voices due to auto tune and or pitch correcting isn't pleasant to listen to IMHO. Thanks as always for your analysis

[@sugar2n]

Oh my. It's no surprise to anyone that BTS's music is highly produced nor that the rap line gets Auto-tuned when singing live. I did not think the vocal line was being Auto-tuned during live concert performances, but given the difficulty level of their choreography and the fact that they will perform 3-4 songs in a row before a break, it sure would be hard to keep a vocal stabilized without some help. That doesn't bother me. The beauty is in the lyrics of their original songs (in Korean), the intent behind the lyrics, and their incredible kindness and connection to their fans who are of all ages, genders, and ethnicities. Many of the commenters here might be listening to this one snippet of music that was not written by the band nor sung in their own language, then writing the band off. This is a catchy and fun song to sing, but it is not the reason BTS has such global popularity. Peace to you all from a 60 yr old ARMY, and thank you, Fil, for always being so polite and kind in your analysis videos.

[@SKB1955]

Well said 🤘🏻

[@TheSeeking2know]

What I’ll agree with is that singing in a chorus (multiple voices singing together) while dancing complicated routines and moving all the stage would be exhausting and not show whatever vocal skill is actually available. I will be interested to hear an analysis of a slower tempo ballad from BTS. Would they also use a heavily auto-tuned production? I would expect them to sing mostly naturally. “Dynamite” is a fun song with a catchy melody and bright fun video, I’ll give it that.

[@Koakoa45]

Maybe you should do a non-performance BTS video, where they are just singing around their dorms and not on stage. I have noticed auto tune on BTS especially V (Taehyung) which is sad cause Jungkook and Taehyung are very good singers. They are autotuning great singers and honestly I don't like it. I prefer them without it.

[@lobaetoile8440]

It's hard to find reliable videos of that, you are gonna set them up for this reviewer to look down on them. (Or maybe not him, but his followers... They seem very elitistic and judgemental.) It's better to leave it like this.

[@leandabee]

So I popped on over to check out Lorenzs talk box thingy. Pretty funny guy, and fascinating info. Thanks Fil🙋🏼‍♀️

[@rosieposie5852]

There are some K-pop girl groups who got huge backlashes because they sounded different from the studio version when they were asked to sing live in an encore. Some people blamed the girls' company for giving them songs which are out of their range. A vocal coach criticized their performance, saying they sounded pitchy, which made more sense to me. Then I searched around about pitch and found this channel, which has been eye-opening. Thank you, Fil! I'm having trust issues right now after watching your analysis videos. I've been isolating the vocals of the songs/performances I used to enjoy and watching their graphs on the vocal pitch monitor. It turns out that so many of the things I've listened to have been autotuned. Not only in K-pop, I listen to a few Japanese rock/metal bands, and their songs are also autotuned and I didn't realized it before. 😅

[@jmorris390]

I enjoyed your analysis of this performance. I don't have an educated ear, but I do know that when I first listened to this BTS performance the drums were really forward and I shared the video because it felt like, even with the backing track, the live part was fun. Very quickly, though, the video was changed to what you hear now. I liked the original so much better.

[@jmorris390]

This is the video I was describing kzbin.info/www/bejne/p6KxZYiNo8uWh6M

[@thathawaiiandude787]

I’m kinda surprised you haven’t heard of MILLI VANILLI. But, speaking of the talk box….it actually was used to massive success. The band, ZAPP, and one of its members, ROGER TROUTMAN, made very popular music with the talk box being its main “instrument”. You probably heard a few of their/his music somewhere….movies, commercial, radio etc. You should check out their stuff. Roger did a cover of “I Heard It Through The Grapevine”. He used the talk box to its max effects. Among his most popular stuff, his biggest hit was actually a slow jam called,”I Want To Be Your Man”. Very cool tune. -Doo Wah Ditty -Dance Floor -More Bounce To The Ounce ….mostly all dance music. It came out in the 80’s when Breaking and Popping dance craze was the thing.

[@buckeyeclayfan]

This was extremely educational to me. Makes me appreciate singers from before autotune even more! This new trend ties in with transhumanism. A little creepy, but I guess this band has some charm and managed to cheer some people up during covid. I prefer the human voice (warts and all) though.

[@Caperhere]

I’m at the point now where I don’t trust any KZbin videos anymore. It’s ruining my love of music.

[@mymasmith7848]

I started stanning a crossover group called Forestella because they sing live, as in live live. And yes, some of the TV shows pitch correct them anyway, even though they don't really need it. But then they hold concerts like this one from November 2021. Them, in front of a Real Orchestra. As I live an ocean and a continent away, I am grateful for all the bootleg fancams of the concerts, from every angle and amount of wobble. Here is one prime example "Hijo Della Luna" watch?v=gcJ85rnE34o You can hear the singers and the orchestra really breathe into the music. Its an old Monserrat Caballe repertoire song, translated to Korean.

[@tubenamel]

To understand BTS and their use of auto tune, you need to know a bit about the Korean “K-pop” industry machine. Competing entertainment companies put together “bands” based upon talent, yes, but even more effect, looks, group dynamics, and overall entertainment value. Members are expected to learn all the same skills. In BTS, for example, there are 7 members, hired officially to be on the rap line, the vocal line, or the dance line. But they all must “sing” (I think Dynamite might actually be around the time they started auto tuning so much, because they started to have the non-vocal line “singing”), and they all must dance-and BTS is known for very difficult choreography. So essentially there’s no way they can ever perform on stage live the way they sound on albums even without auto tune-who could expect the poor guys to be hitting and holding notes accurately while dancing their hearts out?! But from what I can tell, in live performances in the past they didn’t use auto tune-instead, they singing along with/over a recorded track that includes their own vocals. That way their real live voices can be heard at times but at other times-when they really break into dancing, for example-they’re essentially lip-syncing to their own voices. I’ve also noticed that since COVID their “live” performances sound taped-but very cleverly done. My theory is that they record the audio in the performance space beforehand and then lip-sync to it. Because it is clearly not live, but it always has acoustic sound that fits the size of the space they are in.

[@monabale8263]

a product of that electronic music class in high school, circa late 1970-80... :D

[@lydiaschelling2209]

It would be interesting to analyse a fancam recording of one of their live performances. Then we could exclude post processing.

[@kathyvangogh4034]

Not a bit shocked you’re right.

[@Annabell860]

The voices technology sounds a lot like devce we used to use for laryngectomy (vocalcord removal generally throat cancer)but much more advanced now.

[@audreywolf5470]

Please do other bts performance! 🤍🤍 Thank you for this

[@rexwave4624]

This series has been very educational. You've been training my ear to hear the artifacts. As for BTS, I think we're hearing a MIlli Vanilli moment where the auto-tuned track is heard live. I have Melodyne, so maybe I can be Justin Bieber, who grew up an hour away. Now, the holy ground is Pentatonix. Will you go where angels may fear to tread?

[@jessiem276]

I've been wondering about Pentatonix, also ...because they always sound perfect.

[@giddyaunt9953]

I beleive wht they do is use pre-recorded tuned vocals that are then sidechain compressed by the vocal mic. So some of them are miming and one or two of the better singers are replacing the pre-recorded vocal some of the time using the sidechaining. When someone does an ad lib or whatever of course it is not autotuned. K-Pop does not really value live vocals.

[@drewpall2598]

Teacher I keep waiting for you to give us a test to see if we have been paying attention on your auto-tune and pitch correction analysis. excellent job Fil 👍

[@maizie9454]

sometimes I don't mind being old. this is one of those times. I had dire straights, Neil Young, and Stevie ray Vaughan I m not sure this is music, let alone an art form.

[@garyguyton7373]

I understand the sentiment, but I'm certain it qualifies as music. Not very good music, but not pure noise.

[@monkmchorning]

Well, it has rhythm and intervals, but they're not very interesting.

[@garyguyton7373]

@@katevalentine7075 Irony

[@garyguyton7373]

@@katevalentine7075 I'm 71. Music died in '75. Popular music is in dire need of a reboot.

[@chicagogirl4everanda]

The comments are sad. Judging a band that's been one of the most hardworking in the last 8 years by hearing a few seconds. BTS has a huge repertoire covering so many genres--they have three of the best rappers in Korea in their group, they started out doing hip hop and only recently moved into "fun pop songs". We as BTS fans are well aware it's autotuned for effect, but hearing them live in concert with mistakes and all is still very clear they're incredible musicians.

[@randall5073]

So you're saying they're purposely trying to make it sound bad.

[@crelgen1588]

Imo "autotuned for effect" has become quite the cope

[@kristin123a]

@@randall5073 They're purposely trying to make it sound like every other pop song on the radio.

[@lovepilie]

@@randall5073 blame the trend, not the singers... remember synthetizers in the 80s??? Voice EDM effects in the 90s? And heck pan flute effects in the 90s too??? Music has always followed some trends, because people mostly enjoy them!!! it's ok not to be a fan, but it's quite sad to dismiss great songs just because you don't like the effects... When Stevie Wonders did his whole albums with synthetizers, he got mocked so bad, people were saying these were his weakest albums... and yet, almost 40 years laters, most of these tracks are iconic and have transcended the fancy medium used. At the time no one dared to say he could not sing or play an instrument because they knew his history... so please don't shoot at artists with easy mockery just because it's not your jam.

[@randall5073]

@@lovepilie I don't blame the artist I blame the company that created them and their silly fans. If the fans would not tolerate this nonsense there would not be this nonsense. And I remember when Stevie released all of his albums but I don't remember anybody mocking him, everybody loved Stevie and everything he did. Stevie actually played all of his instruments and he didn't have a program to fix and cover-up bad playing and mistakes.

[@dwaynewladyka577]

I don't mind this group at all. Thanks for sharing this analysis video. Cheers, Fil! ✌️

[@kinggames4668]

Great video yet again! I like bts, but their recent stuff hasn’t quite hit me like they used to unfortunately. I have a request if you don’t mind; considering how well your Bon Jovi at their worst video did, I was wondering if you could analyze what most fans consider their best performance. “Always” Wembley 1995. Keep this in mind if you analyze it: 3rd straight night at Wembley, vocals starting to strain, but still a phenomenal performance!

[@ΚάλλεΤάβος]

To add to the extent that k-pop is about production .... The latest trend is using AR (Augmented Reality) in the MVs and stage shows. A lot of groups experimented with this during their online concerts of the past year. The best examples of this that I can think of are the "League of Legends - K/DA - POP/STARS" videos. From the group "aespa's" bio: aespa, a combination of “ae”, which stands for “Avatar and Experience” and “aspect” meaning “two-sidedness”, symbolizes “meeting of another self and experiencing a new world” and consists of four real members KARINA, WINTER, GISELLE, and NINGNING along with avatar members of each.

[@Timmy1825]

I brought up the Milli Vanilli reference to you previously and yes, this autotune is M V on steroids. We aren't hearing the actual voices of the artists of today which was exactly what we got with M V. It really is depressing.

[@digitalbrand2930]

Bombs away!

[@Chishannicon]

I don't pay attention to BTS for the most part, but I did happen to watch this Tiny Desk video when it came out, and I was so depressed by the obvious auto-tuning of the vocals. What a terrible sound.

[@JonHarris77]

Pentatonix analysis please! Don't know if that is feasible with multiple vocals/harmony, but would be interesting to hear. They are too perfect to not be using pitch correction of some sort to my ear. Suggestions would be "Hallelujah" or "I Just Called To Say I Love You".

[@tracychavez7914]

I watched your recent analysis on Karen Carpenter and your description matched exactly to what I imagined. I'm not crazy about the new music that relies on Auto Tune to get the desired voice. I would love to see FIL make an appearance on the Kelly Clarkson Show. Thank you FIL for your very professional analysis. Talk Box live....wow! Hope that doesn't become acceptable but look how many artist take advantage of auto tune.

[@MrCuddlyable3]

I agree with Tracy Chavez that your recent analysis on Karen Carpenter was a delight. I suggest you analyse this aria by Sharon Cutworth because I'm sure you will spot the interesting bit! kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6jbnWitrqqAj9U

[@MrCuddlyable3]

I agree with Tracy Chavez that your recent analysis on Karen Carpenter was a delight. I suggest you analyse this aria by Sharon Cutworth because I'm sure you will spot the interesting bit! kzbin.info/www/bejne/l6jbnWitrqqAj9U

[@tracychavez7914]

@@MrCuddlyable3 Thank you for your message! I will do just that!

[@theneonchimpchannel9095]

I like the idea of talk boxes and vocoders as they're effects and not trying to fix something. It's not making up for a lack of talent or just laziness or whatever else, it's another instrument. 13:46 Milli Vanilli could actually sing, that's the sad part. It's just that was the way that the producer had always worked. It was the same with Boney M. However, Milli Vanilli had no idea they weren't going to be allowed to sing when they got signed. They were given a huge advance which they ran out and spent, then they found out they were only there to be the public face of the band. It was all hidden in the fine print and because they'd spent their advance, they were now caught in this web of lies and had to go along with it. After they got caught miming, they made an album with their real voices but by then the damage was already done and their careers were over. One of them fell into a deep depression and ended up dying of a drug overdose. The other one still makes appearances on talk shows occasionally, trying to tell their side of the story and proving that he actually is a really good singer. It's not too dissimilar to what happened to The Monkees. It wasn't that they couldn't play, they wanted to, but they weren't allowed. They had to fight for it and by their 3rd album they were actually playing most if not all instruments, but the idea that they weren't a real band had already spread so they were always going to be thought of like that, even though Te Byrds, The Beach Boys and several other bands used the exact same session musicians on their early records. There were other producers who did similarly shady things too. Stock-Aitken-Waterman's whole thing was to find someone who looked the part and could kinda carry a tune, but then have a professional singer double tracking their vocals and mixing between the 2, usually highlighting the professional. So that's just the pop world. That's how those sorts of producers and managers and record company types think.

[@urbanlarsson8252]

Maybe it was just the solo singers mic that where autotuned. Isn't there tempo controlled or midi controlled mixers now, and also the audio processors connected to it? Then it's just to program the times when to enable and disable different audio processors and have it synced from the kick drum. You can clearly hear voices jump from one tone to the next without any glide between them, like a robot and getting close to Cher's autotune song. The comments on the original video are hilarious. Another video of a vocal coach commenting on that NPR live session are amazed of their perfect voices.

[@wingsofpegasus]

Yeah it's interesting that a lot of singers and coaches on YT must not have a lot of real life live amd studio experience. It's very clear to hear if you've got a half decent ear!

[@kristin123a]

I've seen some vocal coaches calling out the auto tune on this performance and some fans go crazy because they can't hear it themselves. To some degree it could also be a stylistic choice, though some of the singers are better than the others and here they all sound "the same". In some of these performances you can actually hear that they "covered up" a bad note. Like in their Grammy's performance. The off note is not as bad as it probably was live, but the editing sort of makes it worse at the same time.

[@lynndow3185]

AHA! Would you look at that! 221,000 Subscribers now! Congratulations, Fil!

[@wingsofpegasus]

Thanks!

[@drewpall2598]

Your so right Lynn, Fil is racking up the numbers in his auto-tune analysis.

[@Krullmatic]

If you want to hear a great artist using a talkbox with a keyboard, look up Roger Troutman and his band Zapp. He was the one who made this famous. He had hits back in the '70s and '80s. Look up his songs Heartbreaker and Computer Love. I especially like Heartbreaker! He also was the one who did the song California Love with Tupac. I'm sure you'll enjoy his songs!

[@lindadescafano3749]

I have heard this song and you bring up some good points in your analysis regarding the use of auto tune in comparison to someone like Karen Carpenter who is using her natural vocal ability.

[@pauldouglas4158]

This stuff could be used for enhanced interegation by governments and the military around the world. This will make someone talk

[@stevencurtis924]

Fil deserves combat pay for listening to this stuff 😂

[@cindypowers4993]

YES😄

[@lelleithmurray235]

😄

[@briansd2772]

COTD!

[@matcoffidis1135]

Haha! Yes!!! 😂😂😂

[@BettyPark-tz6qn]

It was the worst sample of their song for some reason. I'm not defending them using auto tune. I hate it too. And they're definitely not great singers but this was a very poor sample of their music. U should watch all of their mvs to get to know their music & singing styles better.

[@nancy9891]

This song is designed to be done this way. They are directed by Big Hit Entertainment that creates the sound. If you want to hear Jungkook live, he appeared on The Masked Singer Korean television and competed against other singers. It can be seen on You Tube and would be fun to have it reviewed by you.

[@Marcel_Audubon]

"I just want to be a star, not a musician"

[@kristin123a]

What is a musician? A rapper who's written more than 180 songs for both himself, his group and other artists? Does that make you a musician? Someone who's a great singer, but is heavily edited by their company? Someone who plays guitar in their bedroom and posts to Soundcloud?

[@-amel-9896]

BTS are musicians. Just because they used autotune in this specific performance does not make them not musicians, especially considering the fact that they come from a background where they didn't have much chances of being "stars" anyway. If they wanted to be stars and not musicians they wouldn't actually be successful, considering the fact they had no big budget or big marketing team behind them to get it to that level. Been around for a decades and only took off after 5 years.

[@Marcel_Audubon]

@@-amel-9896 don't be naive, dearie

[@gutsfield3504]

I have heard that in modern popular music, that Ella Fitzgerald and someone surnamed Carpenter could be identified by singing two notes or less.

[@DyvmSlorm]

I'd love a breakdown of Home Free both live and studio. They are another a cappella band.

[@andreakormosnekacso4804]

OMG!

[@nightsampler]

Two of my favourite songs are on Herbie Hancock's album Sunlight. I thought it was you and come running to me. Not sung, played, and they're wonderful music.

[@waltjones40]

My G-D! I'd prefer Ozzy's "Mr. Crowley" to this.

[@Doing_Time]

wow, even I was annoyed by the autotune and I didn't know what that was a couple weeks ago (though I did always know intrinsically that most modern music was more 'electric' than human)

[@enelreh12]

Thank you for this wonderful perspective. I myself want to listen to artist’s authentic voice. Please if you have any extra time, could you check j-hope in Lollapalooza or any live performance of j-hope. I don’t know what we are gonna find out but I’m ready to know. Thanks very much

[@k.m.8399]

I do hope you listen and review other South Korean singers. BTS are the most well known in the West but they are not the overall representation of S. Korea music. If you could please analyze Park Hyoshin. He developed Dysphonia and had to change his singing style. There is a great performance of the song called Wildflower on the program for Yu Huiyeol's Sketchbook.

[@intuitivechoices4049]

You guys, he is only pointing out they use auto tune at times, NOT ALL THE TIME. We have all heard each of them organically, and they are a fabulous group. They ARE talented, they CAN sing and dance and write, and I personally, can care less if they use autotune at times. How snobby to presume only they do, I'd say 70% of 'famous fabulous' use it and truly are terrible most times without it, unlike BTS. BTS uses it at TIMES, and still can sing without it

[@lobaetoile8440]

People complain a lot about autotune and voice effects (that are pretty much a generalised trend right now in pop music, including on stripped down sesions... And mostly as for style, because it's often very obvious and used to modify tones...) However, I will say this: you can tell when someone is a bad or good singer, regarless of voice effects, if you know how these effects work.

[@teresamckeown5594]

I definitely enjoy BTS-that being said, I would have been stunned to learn that they were not auto tuned. I am also moved by the comments I see below. Fil said he was not familiar with the band - and he doesn’t have the history that you all do. I salute your passion. My daughter’s bestie is a big BTS fan.

[@TwoMiceOnMyBookshelf]

As a lover of music, from alternative rock, to EDM, classical, jazz, to pop, the comments I see under this video break my heart. People confused the reality of modern recordings with lack of actual talent. Clearly, no one here, even the supposed musician in this video, who is not a vocalist, really understand what "autotune" is. Autotune does not make a bad singer sound better. I am no musician and even I know this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aHTVfmCFqdKoe8k I am 52 years old so I am not that young. But I do not see myself yearning for the good old days, when recording quality is not as good. It seems like we have come to a time when you have to be bad to proof that you are good. The tail, wagging the dog. For those thinking they can make artistic and judgements on a ten year old band, based on this video alone, (and on the basis that they look the way they do, I have no doubt about this) -- shame on you, your stereotyping, and your prejudices. No one is fooled into thinking these comments are actually about music. Prejudice is a tiresome topic, because it just goes on and on. And on.

[@wingsofpegasus]

I'm a professional musician, singer and guitarist (endorsed by Fender), it's why I'm asked to make these videos 🙂 wingsofpegasus.com/bio Your understanding of auto-tune and pitch correction is obviously limited, as you state you're not a professional musician. It most certainly, unequivocally can make a bad singer sound better. Sadly that is it's primary function in the mainstream music industry as any producer will tell you! When it is used artistically then obviously it's different, as artists have it at their disposal for that end. The main problem is, it just sounds mechanical which is great if you're going for that sound, but not when it's made your favourite artist sound like a computer. Sadly it's that's obvious to the ear!

[@TwoMiceOnMyBookshelf]

@@wingsofpegasus As an average consumer, I can only hear what I hear (LIVE). The rest, I must rely on being informed by music producers, and sound engineers, as they explained what autotune is, and how they work. From what I understand an off pitched vocal will become exaggerated with autotune, and therefore made worse, with it. Not better. But. I will leave the professionals to debate this. There are so many of them out there discussing this. Your preferred musical genre no doubt has an influence on how you form your personal opinion. As you highlighted the context in terms of transparency and intention, I feel you have failed to highlight a larger context that is the modern recording environment in your discussion of this. At this point I can't help but return to your preferred genre in music. To use something I know more about, there are diamonds out there which on their certificates showed perfect symmetries according to the gem association’s formula for “ideal” cut that cost a premium but look like frozen spit in our actual eyes compared to hand cut diamonds from 100 years ago which do not fulfil this modern criteria, but look as bright as the sun. This isn’t a perfect analogy, I know. But I hope you get what I am trying to say. That is, ultimately, how something affects the senses of the average consumer must be taken into consideration, and the larger context of the purpose of music, as well as the reality of technology in all recordings and electronically mediated sounds, must be discussed in an analysis like this. Because although numbers and graphs do not lie, how they are presented can be far from the truth. As we can all see in this comment section, calling these singers talentless and how everyone is convinced by your video that they can not really sing. It reminds me of the "electronic music and instruments are not real music" argument. Electric guitars are not real guitars, because the sound they make are modified electronically. I can only imagine you would disagree with that. We all know that music is so much more than the sound it makes.

[@dxfifa]

@@TwoMiceOnMyBookshelf If you have a nice tone but can't hold pitch you can sing now at an elite level now. Pitch is where the expression is, and it's where the talent lies mostly. You can't change your tone, but you can sing in a nice tone without pitch control and make it sound good now

[@patlang3784]

Hate this sound as much as I do gangsta rap!

[@kata7628]

Heh, they don’t speak English (except one of them), so that why it sounds a bit “off” lyrically - maybe he was having a ping pong, dunno. I think it sounds a bit odd with the heavy auto-tune, a little artificial. A big part of their shows is the dancing and performance, so I doubt their fans would care about auto tune.

[@kristin123a]

From what I've heard Western song writers sends songs to Korea for them to choose with bullshit lyrics because the Koreans often write new lyrics in Korean. I think this time they got one of those bullshit lyrics and just decided to keep it. The lyrics make zero sense. I'd be a bit embarrassed if I was the one who wrote them and had them released. Although I'd probably be laughing all the way to the bank. Have these guys choose your song and you're set for life.

[@knarf_]

Next step after "talk-box", will be "image-box". You will just send an hollogram and only computer will "sing" live ! With someone else, somewhere in a back room or from their home controlling the process... 🙄😪 knarf from France

[@worstxb1playertylerteehc635]

Peter Frampton ''Do You feel''

[@rockingroyalty2108]

Gone are the days when actual vocal talent was a requirement. Glad I'm not of this generation.

[@andrewclough660]

extrapolate this out and "No darling I'm not lying, I'm applying an effect to my reality....

[@StateDrone]

Roger Troutman and Zapp used a talk box (or something like it) in some 80s hits, but it was definitely for the style it provided.

[@Coccinelf]

Saying this as someone who was a kpop fan 10 years ago, I'm sorry I can't listen to this.

[@marlowminingco]

I gotta see you do Mel Torme - The Velvet Fog. Love this stuff!

[@armyot7546]

Honestly, i think you should check their Vlive cause even though the performance you showed was pre-recorded, they can sing really good. The performances where they don't perform in front of people are pre-recorded and lip synced and are heavily processed but when they are performing with people live, like their concerts, it's them singing live with their real voices because you can hear that they are sometimes out of tune, off key, flat or unstable and crack sometimes. Take Jimin for example. The way you were explaining everything makes it seem as if you're saying that they can't sing when they can because theyre using autotune in non-live performance. You even said in the video that you don't know BTS that much so you don't know much about them With all of this, they can still sing really good but it's the company that adds all the unessecary effects

[@Tbspider2]

Can we find any modern pop that doesn't use auto-tune?

[@kristin123a]

No

[@patty7beth]

Alas, now all my illusions have been shattered!

[@crusadeelectronics2444]

I love when you pull the covers on these hacks. Keep up the good work brother!

[@BettyPark-tz6qn]

Hacks ?!??! Why this word. Sorry even if they aren't the greatest of singers they're very talented in music and dance. U sound jealous of their talents and success.

[@ann-archist7172]

Not first time with a live band. First time performing Dynamite with a live band.

[@ToddSauve]

The truly ridiculous thing about Milli Vanilli was that they won a Grammy award for that record. It exposed the Grammys for a bunch of phonies who knew little about music. They took it right on the chin over that affair, and everyone thought it couldn't have happened to a more deserving bunch. Almost everything about the music business by the late 1980s was "business" (money) and little about talent or creativity. It was all about what is the weirdest and most ridiculous thing you could foist on the music buying public. Enter Rap and Hip Hop. I actually haven't watched the Grammys since that time. And I don't think I have missed much of actual consequence.

[@jessiem276]

It's more like "token" awards now. I don't watch it anymore.

[@ToddSauve]

@@jessiem276 Clearly you are a lady and a scholar, and fine judge of musical talent! 👌😉😎

[@jo_ni_kay]

Milli Vanilli got a recording contract and went into the studio and recorded vocals for their debut album. The producer didn't like their singing and instead used studio performers to finish the final mix. Milli Vanilii wasn't told the truth until after the album was released and the producer talked them into keeping the secret. It was a sham perpetrated by a producer and maintained by the artists. The duo was awarded a Grammy in February 1990 and the truth came out November 1990. How was this a Grammy fail? In case you didn't know the Recording Academy 12,000-plus voting members are comprised of recording professionals (e.g. artists, songwriters, producers, engineers/mixers, musicians, conductors, etc.). Can pretty much guarantee they know a lot more than you about music.

[@ToddSauve]

@@jo_ni_kay I knew an audio engineer who was a voting member of the academy in 1988 and may still be. He knew his fair share about music and a lot more about engineering. I was a student of his. He was from the Toronto area and was a producer and engineer for both EMI and Decca in England. He engineered albums for Ella Fitzgerald and Black Sabbath among others, and did the post-production sound for some of Clint Eastwood's films like "Any Which Way But Loose," Francis Ford Coppola's "Apocalypse Now" and Burt Reynolds' "Smokey and the Bandit" at his Can-Am Recorders in Los Angeles. It is not _really_ the Grammy's fault for not knowing the label and artists were scamming them. But I can say that the Grammys are a manufactured "industry" association and that the "music industry" is just that--an industry. They are pretty flaky, trendy and contrived at times, as is evidenced by the people they award Grammys to who disappear from the entire music world a year or two later. It is much more about hype and what they can "sell now" than it is about genuine, long lasting artistry, mastery of music, or creativity. Thus their cratering viewership and less than sterling reputation. When you are replacing music with lesbian acts on stage, you can kind of bank on losing a colossal number of viewers. And they are ... 🙄🤷‍♂️

[@danolson4681]

Like that you added Korean artists . Do you take requests , if so , may I suggest another Korean singer ; Kim Sohyang .

[@marysalvi242]

I cannot even finish this video - bad enough their being auto-tuned, bad enough we see it "singing' and ooping out other sounds, what in the world do they look like on stage - and I mean even if they are great dancers..my head aches just thinking about what it must look like - an over load of moving about with noise.

[@kristin123a]

They're just sitting in this performance actually.

[@ShannonRochon]

We know...it's a stylistic choice...:) The 3 rappers and a couple of the vocalists are experienced producers and work closely with their sound engineers. Their live performances are often sung with processed backing vocals, more than autotune. They've also sung to us during their individual live vlogs with us and the difference is minimal. You just hear, as you said, a few pitch inconsistencies. What I dislike about people analyzing musicians they don't know is that they often just focus on one aspect. They fail to take into consideration everything else that goes into what these artists do. The boys have written 90% of their discography. They are heavily involved in every aspect of the music they make all the way to production & marketing. They are also heavily involved in the creation of the difficult dance routines they perform alongside that music. Music isn't just the voice. It's everything else that goes with it. We are not ARMY because they're pretty. If Pretty was all it took, I'd have been a fan of a shitton more artists out there. Their humanity, genuine care for their passions & music, intelligent story telling and personal struggles & stories are what keeps us by their sides.

[@chicagogirl4everanda]

THANK YOU

[@SKB1955]

Agree 100%. Thank you

[@paulmdt1]

But wouldn't you BTS fans rather hear these guys' genuine voices on their recordings, rather than having them so heavily digitally processed by the geeky recording engineers in the studio that they end up sounding more like robots than human beings?

[@ShannonRochon]

@@paulmdt1 We already know what they sound like. As I said, we've heard them all when they speak with us during lives. When we feel something's been overprocessed, and that's happened before, we say so. That said, we still respect their choices. They have their hands in every part of a song's progress, including being with those geeky engineers. The rappers have all created their own mixtapes start to finish and the vocalists have solo songs they've released where they work closely with their teams. As I said, there's more to their music than just their voices, whch is true for any singer who also writes and performs.

[@kristin123a]

@@paulmdt1 Yes, but what are we supposed to do? Not listen to something because it has auto tune? It doesn't work that way. That is why 18 million people tuned in to watch one of the guys have a live karaoke party alone in his studio late at night. We can't change what the company decide is the right amount of editing.

[@danayang7712]

I'm so happy I prefer old music... 🙈

[@melissamills31ytb]

GREAT information! I'm a huge BTS fan, and a classical choral conductor. I found this fascinating. I love BTS no matter how they produce the sound; I don't love them just because of how they sing or the actual music they sing. Their personalities and the messages in their music bring me joy. The autotune is a blessing, because they're not all equally-good singers, If I heard the real voices and they were out of tune, I'd cringe and it would be unlistenable. So, I vote for autotune when necessary! This was fascinating. Thank you!

[@KayEl58]

Never heard of them. Wish I'd never heard them. 7.03 - 7.20 reminds me of the sound I got when I was a kid playing 45's backwards. At one point when you said, 'I'll just stop it there', I honestly thought you were going to add, 'because I just can't listen to any more of this.'

[@briansd2772]

Ha!