I'm Tired of Kiriko... | OW2 Hot Takes #30

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[@gamechanger-455]

One of the most satisfying feelings is a backfill comeback game and feeling like "you" were the reason the game was a win.

[@jaydenkrebs976]

Yessss!!! This is why I don’t really mind backfilling it’s not like it’s something that happens often but when it does it can be so fun to feel like you led the comeback

[@dragonslayer7724]

Had a round where I backfilled into a team with 1 total kill, managed to turn it around and absolutely stomp them, one of my favorite games I’ve ever played

[@dbhDilemma]

Scalding hot take: making the shot with the basketball in spawn within the first 10 seconds of loading in should be potg no matter what. Fight me, I'm right.

[@PuttBlug69]

yes

[@joshp3446]

Play of the game means PLAY of the GAME. The game doesn't start until you leave spawn that's why you can't build ult charge in spawn before the game. So you're wrong

[@cpt.phillips2718]

@@joshp3446 well clearly you havent made the shot.

[@roalves8766]

​@@joshp3446you have been introduced to what we mortals call a joke. most times u just laugh and move on.

[@TheCouchCommando]

Too easy when you can reset ball.

[@MsElViktor]

Coldest take ever: Blizzard need to create a system of backfill that only search for games with more Than 1 minute remaning. Its frustranting to join a match with only 30 seconds left, dont matter the team you are

[@owenvanvenrooy]

I've backfilled games that were over before i could even pick a character

[@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong]

​@@owenvanvenrooy3 out of 10 games when I solo q qp were backfills. Of which 8 out of 10 of those were 1 min or less games.

[@noi_x9]

real, especially if you join when the game is already over

[@ratboygirl]

idk i feel like this is a bit of a non issue. it’s annoying but you get the priority re-queue immediately anyway, no?

[@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong]

@@ratboygirl If I have to queue 5 minutes to go back to queueing for another 1 minute, I'd rather take the full 6 minutes.

[@420RittzBish]

The part about the game not telling you things is so true. I still remember my first time playing Illari and I used her Ult and ended up floating in mid-air confused as all hell lmao. Nowhere in the game does that ability state that it makes you fly and that's a huge problem.

[@noi_x9]

Yeah, i think alot of descriptions on abilities is either way too simplified or way too complicated.

[@ratboygirl]

give us a “more details” section in the hero gallery at least. i’m so surprised you can’t see the ability of heroes from the gallery

[@joegarrison5911]

The teleport is even more problematic then the Suzu. I can have an enemy tank or dps dead to rights when they make a mistake and at the last second the kiri comes in from literally thin air and hits them with an immortality ability.

[@rawrbawr-wow]

Swiftstep is OP and needs a range nerf. Kirikos can get out of some truly looney-tune-ass situations and, unless your team die before you, you barely have to consider where your team are or what they're doing. The ability should be more punishable and she should have to be mindful of where her team is like Mercy in order to stay alive if she wants to flank. A bit of nerf to Swiftstep range would barely touch her viability. She would still be a really good support with the rest of her kit, *deep breath*... decent HPS; a get out of jail free invulnerable cleanse ability that can be used out of spawn to stall objectives; another invulnerability cleanse that denies many ults; a good, undeniable, un-nullifiable, often fight winning ultimate; verticality positioning and escape with wall climb (as if she needed another form of escape); high burst damage (albeit skill based) with NO range dropoff so her damage is better than Cass or Ash past 30 or 40 meters respectively, is better than Zen WITH discord on target, and indeed half the DPS roster in one situation or another. It's no wonder she's been a solid pick every season since she launched.

[@daviddiett2168]

Kiriko is a better DPS than some of the actual DPS, plus Suzu and ult is so good you can't blame people being sick of seeing her so often.

[@naw613]

Kiriko quite literally has lower TTK than half the DPS roster

[@darmanistan]

kiriko quite literally has higher TTK than half the DPS roster

[@wezzy6192]

Remember when bap did more damage than solider😂😂

[@Vik_Theory]

Kiriko does more dmg with a headshot than genji does with his ult

[@erikmccormick9331]

Agree. Horrendously awful hero design. Small hitbox, crazy headshot multiplier, best ult in the game, best cooldown in the game, fits into every comp, wall climbing on top of teleporting 30ft through walls... what the actual fuck were they smoking putting all of that into one character.

[@hoolly]

We need three different modes Comp - we already have Unranked - same ruleset like comp (also leaver penalties) Quickplay - just one side cause we want FUN and not sweaty games (no leaver penalties)

[@user-qk9ts6yd6y]

It would be cool but queue times could take a hit

[@hoolly]

@@user-qk9ts6yd6y legit doesnt matter - who cares about queue times - i want to play what i want and not queueing for a mode which is legit not valid cause nobody knows if its qp or unranked

[@user-qk9ts6yd6y]

@@hoolly a lot of people do. I literally cant play support in competetive in the morning becuase my queue times are >20minutes. Splitting that already small playerbase into two just makes it worse

[@hoolly]

@@user-qk9ts6yd6y you are not splitting the comp queue - you literally split the unranked/quickplay queue into unranked or quickplay. and also IF you are playing in the morning... jeah the queues are rough

[@user-qk9ts6yd6y]

@@hoolly I can agree with that but there would also be a portion of people playing unraked from comp. But like you said it probably woulsnt be as sizable as qp. However its still something that has to be considered

[@bbkey5]

Hot take: tanks should have a rear-view mirror at the top of their screen just like in racing games. Imagine how fun it would be for tanks to quickly be able to check their 6 if they want to push in without risking turning their backs to the enemy team. Edit: changed 'useful' to 'fun' because it would mostly just be a funny change rather than provide much value, come to think of it

[@madtonesbr]

Homie just turn around 😂

[@ace2311]

Ong or just focus on the front and let the others handle the back💀ill put my faith in the fact that my dps and supports can handle the 1 sombra or tracer flanking out backlines. And if they cant, thats just a skill issue

[@Lappmogel]

@@madtonesbr Turning around as tank is big brained because it hides the critbox. Imagine a sigma or rein 360 no scoping you all game while doing forwards backwards jump.

[@jacklesser6902]

Just 180 bud. Turn around

[@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong]

Why do you think us reins sometimes hold shield for like 2 whole seconds.

[@pizza4717]

In gold support queues are always the shortest and dps queues are always the longest, it might be different in higher ranks but i think dps is the most popular role for most players

[@noi_x9]

Yeah, i think it is bc its more fun to play dps

[@Tomwithnonumbers]

Yeah, at higher levels I hear support is more popular - but that's a small fraction of players. Most people just want to shoot things

[@Tomwithnonumbers]

Also the poster was right - the trinity will always lead to bad queue times. Games with no class system (so there is no tank / support difference) can queue in under a minute

[@gamechanger-455]

Kiriko Suzu is the opposite side of Ana Nade coin. Now we just need Zen ult to suzu on initial cast to be a better direct counter to other abilities and not be horridly outdated.

[@fallasleep3513]

I feel like kiris abilities should get switched. Like make her ult cleanse all negative effects and make her ability a small kitsune that only works on one person for like maybe a couple seconds just like how support sombra worked in the mirror watch event

[@lrainwater1608]

@@fallasleep3513she’d go from having one of the best ults to one of the worst ults. Not only that but junker queen ult would be literally useless if the enemy has a kiriko because the only time a kiriko would ult is for JQ ult. JQ is already struggling with it being an ability but that means they would be more likely to use it since they’d have easier access to it

[@fallasleep3513]

@@lrainwater1608 she needs a bad ult so that would still be a good thing. Also, kiriko can already cleanse everyone pretty much when JQ ults so it literally changes nothing besides making kiriko players actually have to think and making her a bit more skillful

[@cursedusd3939]

Hot take: I don't think it's fair to factor queue times whenever 5v5 vs 6v6 is brought up. There's been a lot of changes to the game itself that don't necessarily support this argument imo. The game being free to play, having a more balanced roster size, new fun heroes and a consistent content/patch output make a huge difference compared to ow1 which was abandoned for about 2+ years

[@bobothebob4716]

my favorite bit is that they had to narrow the SR gap between teams, which is why we have queue times that are in many times worse than what I ever saw in OW classic - even with 1 fewer tank..

[@Mkenran]

Also the removal of most CCs made the tank experience so much more enjoyable

[@noi_x9]

Real, I don't think queue times are barely an issue they're not that long, people are overreacting about them even if theyre long just play deathmatch or smthn while u wait

[@cagxplays9602]

@@Mkenran what??????????? huh?????? you know theres more cc in ow2 2 compared to ow1 right?

[@shanonfrancis5071]

​@@Mkenrantank experience? Enjoyable? In 5v5? What heresy!

[@chris61986]

One issue with leaver penalty is Mystery Heroes. Since there's no "Assemble your Team" phase, if you crash/lose connection/etc., then you immediately get penalized. I got my first suspension the other day. I lost power immediately after joining a mystery heroes game. Power came back, then I queued MH again. Soon as I joined, my dog came in the room and started asking to go outside. Had to quit and got the suspension. By the time I got back, I only had like 2-3 minutes left, but still. If it were QP, I'd have been in the "Assemble your team" phase and not received any penalty, but since MH skips that phase you can get suspended even leaving at the very beginning of a match.

[@PumPuum]

Hot take: There should be absolutely no penalty for leaving a quickplay match during the hero selection phase or the first half of the set-up phase. There should also be an avoid list for maps so that I don't have to instantly leave every time I get the stupid antartica map.

[@StarCrow77Gaming]

Great take but avoiding Maps would lead to longer Q times

[@boiqi]

You described the reason why that'll never be a feature perfectly, people will leave if they don't like the map and that's really boring. People will just play maps that suit their main, it would suck if you have a niche main on a map you personally like and half your team leaves in setup.

[@guywithopinion]

There should be no penalty for leaving a quickplay match period

[@bigjay506]

I’m gonna be honest there shouldn’t be a penalty for leaving quick play period… in my lobbies players are literally instantly replaced. I shouldn’t have to suffer during my warmups due to having bad tanks or bad supports

[@its_lucky252]

based.

[@_shiggi_]

Advanced tooltips for the Hero Abilities screen should be a toggle setting. This way new players won't be overwhelmed with numbers and stats, while veteran players can see EXACTLY what numbers abilities/primary/secondary have at any given time.

[@420RittzBish]

I don't even mind not having numbers, but they should at least tell you what the abilities do in the game. Go look at Illaris ult as a good example. It doesn't even mention that it makes you fly lmao. That's the kind of thing that needs to be in the game.

[@RemedieX]

20:20 ironically highlights why Suzu isn't healthy for the game. There's 0 reason so much balance should revolve around Suzu's current state to the point that many support players feel forced into playing her. Suzu is part of the problem, it's not just tp. Yeah, tp range can be toned down or its cooldown increased by 1, but she absolutely needs it to be strong, unlike Suzu. It should not give outright immort + high burst heals + intagibility + allows Kiri to shoot while its effect is up + being aoe applicable to everyone in the team if grouped up. It's an overly stacked ability from a design standpoint. EOS. If they need to rework her to move some of the power from Suzu away to the rest of her kit or even new additions, then that'd be great for the hero in general. Besides, it's about time they experiment with actual ways to address her issues, can we stop defending the lack of action? Because ik KarQ likes to stay neutral and be devils advocate, but it's been 10 seasons now, c'mon. If experimenting with her makes her take the bench for 1-2 season, nothing bad is going to happen and support players won't have a heart attack, but if we keep saying "but if Suzu is nerfed or if this is changed Kiriko will be trash" we'll have her be meta for the entirety of OW2. It's tiring at this point. Why is she an exception? We've outright had heroes deleted from seeing play when they got too strong at one point, but Kiri gets an exception?

[@somedude6991]

Not healthy for the game is the new way to pass your opinion as a fact

[@RemedieX]

@@somedude6991 No, that's not the case here at all. But if you want to be dense and ignore the actual facts that she's been meta since release and permanent in every pro environment because she's stacked, then that's your choice to be negligent. Cya 👋

[@pebl7735]

She's OBVIOUSLY the most precious

[@brokenbeaniegaming3263]

Scry some MORE

[@hammadvulgar5884]

Not even remotely

[@ChernoOfficial000]

I mean have you look at her blender animations.

[@jeffstone7471]

you can still do good, while being up to no good

[@danielortega5088]

Hot take: Practice range bots should have gotten the HP buff from season 9. It seems silly to have them be 200 hp, it just messes with the perceived TTK of an average hp squishy in the practice range.

[@rawrbawr-wow]

18:07 Am I the only one in feeling like the leaver issue only got bad because QP matchmaking got so bad? The harsh leaver penalty is just a band-aid fix for poor quality matchmaking.

[@trav8787]

I think adding a forfeit option, with 4 or 5 out of your team having to accept the forfeit for it to work, would be a better option than penalizing people for getting out of games that don't feel fun. The only negative is the 1-10 kd teammate doesn't click forfeit and gets flamed even more. It works in rocket league, sometimes your down and you wanna grind out see if you can get the comeback, other times your just like fuck, we have lost this game, just get me out of this game so I can get into another one.

[@thelowlybard]

@@trav8787 Agreed. In my experience the leaver penalties do nothing to stop leavers. If people rage, they're gonna leave if they wanna leave. It seems to make backfilling that much more frustrating because you're FORCED to play out a losing game that you just joined because you'll get the exact same penalty if you leave.

[@roland8357]

Cold take. We need end of season comp rewards back. I looked forward to a new season because i was able to get 1500 comp points and usually get a gold weapon. The comp point system now takes way tooo long. I under stand making it harder to get points but geez give us end of season rewards

[@volktol4432]

Exactly, end of season rewards were my favorite thing, I legit in play comp for gold/jade weapons, if not for that, I’d probably just play QP

[@FBBvivaj]

Kiriko suzu allow it to cleanse status effects, heal and provide a brief damage reduction (50-75% whatever). Give it a shorter cooldown. If this and other "oppressive" to tank cooldowns were similarly tuned down, arguably overstatted tanks (like ball, hog, mauga, etc) can also be tuned down heavily.

[@PhenomRom]

The lfg tool was so good. You just think it’s underutilized because you can find a stack anytime you want

[@aSuperPi.]

13:50 I think Brigitte Inspire is the best example of this problem. Literally no one in the metal ranks understands what that does lol.

[@Indeeeex]

Hot take: Save ally button are wrong in this game. I specifically target Kiriko and Lifeweaver as they both have those game breaking ability. An example of correct design is Baptist immortality field: the field can be broken; allies are still taking damages and remain weak. This ability requires a minimum amount of skill to be used correctly.

[@Bean._.]

Mostly as a joke ive said having a "healing recieved" stat would be awesome when i feel like I go three fights on tank without getting any help

[@owenvanvenrooy]

I've had games where i was in a 3 stack with our supports having insane healing numbers but everyone in our stack was like where did that healing come from

[@bobothebob4716]

Denial of play Abilities feel bad, and are proliferating at an alarming rate. The problem with suzu, petal, lamp, grip ect is that they make the buttons you have to press, especially ults feel meaningless. It harkens back to the days of mass rez. Baiting feels good if there is like 1 or 2 things you have to watch for occasionally, but when for example you grav, you have to wait for pedal, then you have to wait for grip then you have to wait for suzu, and by then petal and grip are back off cooldown, it feels terrible, and in my op is the biggest difference between ow1 and 2. somehow you have even fewer heros but it constantly feels like you are either getting denied or having to wait.

[@fallasleep3513]

Not you comparing petal and lifegrip to SUZU, MASS REZ and BAP LAMP 😭😂 I want to smoke whatever you smoked that brought you to a world where lifeweaver is a problem and that all LWs are getting constant value from their dog water kits 😭😂

[@apowers2862]

​​@@fallasleep3513 I mean weaver not only has bullshit but is the least skilled character in the game by far. A monkey could play that hero. The abilities and the ult are braindead. Even the healing is aimbotted for you. Mercy and moira players pick him because hes the only other hero they can play 😂. Suzu and lifegrip are on the same tier of bs but lamp is 10x more fair. Not only does it not outright cancel the dmg an ult does, but a bap is way more punishable for wasting lamp. All he has is the 100 heal burst while weaver has pedal (which most heroes cant do anything about), dash, and an ult that makes him virtually unkillable.

[@fallasleep3513]

@@apowers2862 I cant 💀💀💀 are you bronze

[@apowers2862]

@@fallasleep3513 masters 3

[@apowers2862]

@fallasleep3513 Probably higher rank then your peak. what about what I said didn't make sense. Weaver is objectively much lower skill and less punishable than bap. Lifegrip is more frustrating and interaction-breaking than lamp and comes on a shorter cooldown. Maybe you could argue it's more fair than og lamp which lasted much longer, had more health, and shorter cooldown. Now, I think lamp is the only immort that's fair.

[@Indeeeex]

Hot Take: New support heroes are bad design: they lack identity because they don't lack of anything anymore. Before, there was an intent to balance the ability kit and the ultimate to create something unique and complementary. As an example, Ana has strong healing, range at the cost of no mobility. The ultimate was design for to provide offensive option. Lucio/Zen are design to bring low healing, powerful passive buff, and a powerful defensive ultimate. The new support is design with no intentional weakness. If I take Kiriko or lifeweaver, they both have descent range damage, strong vertical mobility, strong single target heal, very powerful save allies button AND a game breaking ultimate. In my opinion, a good support has to be complete, in a specific part of the support spectrum, not covering the whole spectrum. I could develop a lot more, so I try to keep the text short, I hope you got my point :)

[@mysiklp2509]

“Self healing inflates the healing stat for supports” Cries in mercy

[@hartyewh1]

On lower ranks say gold and below many dps and tank expect that "healers" essentially pocket them and they don't use cover etc. Underlining that support does a lot more is a key distinction a lot of players need so they can play better as well.

[@Phouchg]

Pretty much same in plat/diamond. Sometimes tank is shorter but never dps.

[@justinwillis2112]

Hot take: Kiriko would be more balanced if Suzu only made you invulnerable to damage, not CC. For example, if Rein shatters a whole team, Kiri can't just Suzu them and UNDO all of the impact. She could try to time Suzu so her team survives the follow-up but they wouldn't just immediately stand up and run away. This would make the ability even more about timing and feel less annoying to play against, especially for opposing tanks.

[@Doub1eDose]

As a Kiri main, I totally agree. The only other hero that can cleanse others is Zarya, but her cleanse just removes debuffs like anti, fire, bleed, and dps passive. If they still want a way to cleanse cc, then it should be a different ability that doesn’t cleanse the other debuffs

[@nonmagicalwitch]

I think the opposite should be the case. It should cleanse negative effects and heal, but not give invulnerability. That way, Kiri keeps her nieche as an anti CC hero, but Suzu isn't the worst thing to go up against ever

[@AnakinSkywalker-gw2xv]

Hot take: Hanzo’s one shot was just annoying not oppressive. And if it ever felt oppressive in a game that Hanzo player was just that good. The skilless or lucky Hanzos that many complain about are not that hard to deal with. Maybe because i play Hanzo i know their habits and how to handle them. Same goes for Junkrat sure he is annoying but if you are genuinely struggling that junkrat might just be good. I also play Junkrat so I know their habits so I can’t get caught out by one. Im not sure if their oneshots should come back but they have been reduced to spam characters because the oneshot enabled other play styles Also people never give credit to the good hanzo or junk players I could hit the most insane calculated play on them and still get called lucky, RNG, cringe, etc… Hot take (maybe): tank should not have CC reduction I think CC is a necessary evil for example imagine a world where ball was good but there was no hack or sleep to stop him I love ball but that just not fun for anyone else. The route I think they should go is make the CC skill shots when I get hit with a Ana sleep I can’t really be mad vs the auto lock Cass grenade, lock on hack, or orisa spear the size or a truck.

[@aeni13]

Widows's oneshot is more oppressive than Hanzo's. Excluding spam shots, almost every headshot is a demonstration of skill of the Hanzo. I only feel oppressive against tanks, I guess, but now they have headshot damage reduction.

[@OracleMusicOfficial]

@@aeni13 the headshot damage reduction doesnt really mean anything for hanzo considering that he does WAY more damage to armor now and half the tanks have armor.

[@aeni13]

@@OracleMusicOfficial Does he? He literally have a increased damage against armor?

[@YazzPott]

@@aeni13more than he did before the armour changes, they mean.

[@boinqity4621]

@@aeni13armor works how it did in ow1 now where anyone with burst damage barely gets any reduction and rapid fire/shotgun get heavily reduced. reaper and tracer are bad against armor, hanzo and widowmaker are good against armor

[@Mkenran]

Hot take : instead of removing a tank, they should've focused on making tanks actually fun to play to help with queue times. Removing the second tank was the lazy and easy solution and made the life of the remaining tank even worse. Sub-hot take : give tank ult generation on damage taken to make them rewarding to play

[@leginious]

Hot take: Flashpoint control points countdown too fast. By reusing the same timer as other gamemodes it effectively means by the time a team has reached 50%, the other team has to keep contesting or there is just not enough time for everyone to make it back, regroup and make a coordinated push. The timer should be at least 10-15% slower. This also makes heroes with movement abilities more viable on flashpoint.

[@brokenbeaniegaming3263]

no honestely its really boring, it ends way to fast it needs to be a bit slower

[@oldertorresblanco3407]

U can add teleports, decrease the Time to capture, u can even add some speed boost from respawn, but It doesnt matter, Flashpoint Will continue to be the worst game mode of the game, It has to be remove...

[@AirLight1646]

Leaver penalties are a band aid fix for a larger problem. The question shouldn’t be “how can we discourage people from leaving?” It should be “why are people leaving so often that we are considering a leaver penalty?”

[@dropshot3313]

Hot take: Ultimates do NOT feel as impactful as they used to I feel like, yeah you can get your 4-5 mans but I feel like getting a pick early on with your ult is better and it feels like it’s more of, another ability on “cooldown” kind of situation.

[@trixx2369]

In metal ranks there is a bonus for playing Support 90% of the time and 10% for tank, so there Support is the least wanted role

[@beans12354]

HOT TAKE: there’s actually two different way to play with ball. The obvious one is to pick dive and dive with the ball. The OTHER way is to absolutely destroy the enemy tank when ball is pulling aggro in the back line. Ball gets tough to play with when you just flounder and get yourself killed trying to keep up when you could just murder the tank.

[@LFanimes333]

Ball is a terrible tank dueler, tho?

[@afynaardt16]

Dead of winter take 😂

[@sawah765]

ball going in solo is so easy to survive its almost ignorable. like a single brig would end this playstyle cuz the real healer wouldnt be distracted at all. or any dps that does big damage will send him out pretty quick

[@teejay1646]

What kind of ridiculous lobbies are you in where this works

[@beans12354]

@@LFanimes333 bro can you read

[@potadoc1157]

Hot take: toxicity is a nonissue in a majority of cases, and what the Overwatch team is doing with the “defense matrix” changes. Is a waste of resources because we have had the counter to that being the mute button. And I believe that unless someone is threatening to do something terrible to game end you IRL or something on that level. I believe it is unjustified.

[@ironman1458]

I kinda agree. I mean extreme toxicity shouldn't be enabled in the game but I think thats what you mean by "a majority of cases" But I fully agree with it being a waste of resources, like it is absolutely insane to me that they fired the teams for pve and owl, but kept the teams adding in the dumb ass qp bans and game wide profanity ban. Makes no damn sense

[@potadoc1157]

@@ironman1458 yup we on the same page

[@LilB0pete]

On console dps queue (quick play) is about 6-7 minutes, but healer is 1-2 minutes and tank is generally 2-4 minutes. Supports feel bad maybe even worse than tanks actually, because over healing bad tanks and dps just does not effect the outcome of a match and it feels like you have no agency over the game.

[@thelostradiant3953]

My hot take: QP leavers and backfill would be better if the "quality of matchmaking" was better. Noting is more unfun then a silver support learning damage is playing "respawn simulator" because of a diamond-master widow, genji, sombra, etc is playing like it's Comp and is curb stomping me.... Yeah, I would want to leave that game.

[@aeni13]

Bro, I felt that against a top 500 Tracer on a casual game... I tried even Brig, but the disparity of skill is fuckying too big. And it's quick play, not everyone will try to protect supports leaving spawn, because most of the time it isn't needed.

[@WhydTheyChangeOurNames]

Personally, I think the cleanse/immortality of Suzu should only be single target and any allies in the splash radius just get the heal from it. Then it still has a lot of value but it can only save 1 person at most

[@personalbudakai9161]

Hot Take: A possible solution for Mercy that she alone could circumvent the healing passive in its entirety, so she always does a base healing w/ no changes. The reason why I think this could work well for mercy is because her entire playstyle is to just buff a single other player at a time and keep them up. That means playing mercy means you have 1 less person shooting at the enemy team. Season 9 changes also affected damage boost so inherently its not as powerful for certain heros, so instead of buffing dmg boost or increasing healing numbers why not allow her healing to be not affected by the dps passive. You could balance her numbers afterwards if its too much, but atleast she would be consistent. IDK thats just an idea.

[@MeMyselfAndK]

Hot Take: Removing the impact of most CC abilities on Tank altogether would make the role both more fitting and more fun to play. To compensate, we could reduce tank HP, but the main issue for Tank is that you will get slept, naded, hacked, stunned, and hindered all at the same time and there won't be any opportunity to make a play. The idea behind this is to make tank feel tanky-er by making their most powerful position the frontline, and making them much weaker whenever they leave that frontline to attempt to attack the backline.

[@tamooz6649]

13:50 we already did have videos for abilities but they removed it with OW2 🙃

[@aquilanusUK]

03:26 From where I see things (PS4 player, lowish elo), no one wants to play support? Why? Because I can queue up for Support only, or All Roles and get put into a game as support within 30 seconds typically. Quickest game I got in All Roles was a support game. Seven seconds from the time I queued up. Typical queue times are: Support: 1-3 unless new hero. Tank: 3-5 minutes unless new hero DPS: 6 to 15 minutes unless new hero, which typically triples the wait time.

[@Dj_Lynx13]

The “healing received” stat is an amazing idea! It would give the team an opportunity to see if all the resources are being dumped into an overly aggressive tank or spread amongst the team

[@Wave420XX]

Devs really should rework the scoreboard system to provide and record data more accurately

[@Keeterbo]

Invulnerability abilities will always be incredibly op unless they are turned into ultimates. It wasn’t a problem in ow1 because it was ultimate vs ultimate. The complaint in ow2 is that you can counter nearly every ult by looking down and clicking a cooldown ability, not an ult.

[@LazerDisk]

That was a complaint with lamp in ow1, and it was the reason double shield was so strong sometimes

[@Keeterbo]

@@LazerDisk true I just miss ow1 tbh

[@LazerDisk]

@@Keeterbo same

[@MrHastygamer]

The biggest problem I had with the leavers penalty was we were about to win the game and then like 7 players all decided to just sit in the objective together and just kept contesting the objective, I tried to eliminate them but I was support so I was stuck for 20 minutes of everyone just emoting on the point or risk getting a leavers penalty.

[@KiperV2]

Not a hot take, just a take: QP has gotten more toxic recently and I think it's because of the wide match issue. People either can't get into comp games cause of the ridiculous queue times and then take it out on a quick play match. Quick play is suppose to be chill, practice a new hero, aim practice or just have a fun time with friends. Now I'm getting told to swap, see team mates trash talk one another or constant leavers after a bad team fight loss. Wide match was a mistake.

[@volktol4432]

Same here, I was playing QP earlier and had someone complaining cause I was hitting people with Torb hammer😂but when I play QP, I’m playing with no audio cause I’m watching KZbin, I feel bad for those losers, or take the game so serious and have nothing to show for it

[@austinmcmahan6267]

It's not because of wide matches it's because of leaver penalties. They said they wanted QP to be sweaty and they've encouraged competitive behavior, means more toxicity.

[@lethargicbobhope]

Was going to say just this​@@austinmcmahan6267

[@RemedieX]

Adding leaver penalties to QP has made it far more toxic and I see a lot more throwers and afk'ers than ever before. It's ironic how much people defend the changes when its been detrimental for the game. I find myself playing less and less OW despite loving it beacuse even the casual mode is competitive and sweaty. It's ridiculous how terminally on Overwatch players have grown disconnected. Most content consumers like us and people who actively speak about the game and give critique mostly play OW as their primary goto game, but the vast majority of players - casuals - aren't like this, and those are the silent majority. Making QP leaving 2 games = (now changed) 2 mins suspension just leaves a sour taste and makes people dip because the game punishes them for its inability to properly fix matchmaking that is also partly (although a big part) but absolutely being destroyed by the high amount of smurfs that grow every season because of the little action taken toward dealing with it. They even encourage it when they don't do anything about content creators and streamers on their 10th smurf "educational" vid, or the same person taking up several slots on the leaderboards - yeah that's fair. I made a smurf too, 99 cents and I am one of the 3-5 average smurfs per game (without including me)! I absolutely stomped all the lower ranks until I got GM again. Got accused of cheating/hacking and the enemies were constantly insulting their own teammates for being diffed. I felt bad for the ones getting insulted beacuse they're facing someone way outta their range, but idc because turns out smurfing is fun when I don't have to care about what happens to the ACC. Let's not forget smurfs tend to be x10 toxic for that very reason (although I personally never insult, just gg go next). Anyways, there's a lot of reasons why QP penalties being low is horrible for the game and its playerbase, but yk, loud minority wins. Lets not forget about when the server sometimes goes down, you check downdetector and there's a major spike, but when you log back in to see you were punished for "leaving" or learn the hard way that it counted toward whatever penalty you were working toward. They crack down on penalties without first making sure that they're not enforced by their own mistakes or that they're rectified aftward. Even gatcha games apologize when server mistakes happen and compensate players lol, not that I like gatcha's, but even wallet hounding games have that decency.

[@chrisperry4014]

Make swift step a movement speed buff for both kiri and the target and grant a bonus jump for the characters affected. A little hanzo dash and 20% speed buff for 3 seconds. Alternatively, it could be a lifeweaver dash so it grants a burst of heals but that might be overtuned but also maybe not bc of the brokenness of tp/cleanse on 7 second cd. This would also require a secondary target so kiri couldn’t just solo buff herself.

[@leul1551]

Hot take: In the wake of Sony reversing their unpopular Helldivers 2 scheme, Steam review bombing is actually one of the last ways players can punish big companies for ruining devs’ hard work.

[@soaksoped_feline9888]

“if you know you have bad internet or have stuff to do just don’t queue” i don’t think karq is thinking about the times when you just want to have a normal game in qp but your teammate decides your qp match is the perfect time to find a new best friend and throws your match to be friendly and keeps throwing themselves into the enemy team. so i ask what should i as someone who just wants to have a good qp game do when it’s a 4v5 because my teammate just so happened to be friendly (it happens way more than you’d think). “if you commit to a game just finish it” i didn’t commit to a 4v5 where my roadhog is feeding enemy ult charge, sorry i don’t feel like sitting in spawn for 10-15 minutes but also can’t leave because then i just cant play.

[@olleicua]

If support is more popular than dps then why is the estimated queue time for support always lower despite support being incentivized with credits???

[@shady468]

I have a hot take: I think sigmas gravitic flux change isn't as bad as people say it is. The ult is still counterable by alot of abilities, support ults still counter it, and there's so many movement abilities that can help you escape it. So people shouldn't be saying "there's no more counter play" because there's still so many counters to the ult.

[@aeni13]

But with the buff I think you don't need to always have line of sight, reducing the potential counter a sleep dart can cause, for instance. Or am I wrong? I think it only will make a difference in top level play.

[@shady468]

@aeni13 sleep dart is just one of many abilities in the game that can counter it. High/top level sigmas know how to bait out cds or hide during the initial animation of him rising up. Even then, there's still a cast time to flux. It'd not insane so there's still time to react

[@aeni13]

@@shady468 So, sounds like the community is overreacting. I really need more time to see if this is really that big of idea.

[@shady468]

@aeni13 pretty much. They way flux works is that it's a giant invisible sphere. The only thing you can see is the indicator of where you can grab someone. The reach does go up abit to compensate when trying to grab flyers (mercy, pharah, echo, etc) but that's been in the game since ow 1. Since ow 2 only has 1 tank I feel like this is fair to remove the Los since there's times where you could behind a car and flux would just whiff.

[@newera3787]

IM STILL WANTING COOLDOWN TIMES AND DAMAGE VALUES TO BE SHOWN ON HERO INFO SCREEN

[@didata403]

Cassidy needs an ultimate rework. That's not a hot take, but I have an idea about it. Hot Take: New DeadEye. Cassidy ultimate Marks a Target. The next 6 bullets from Cassidy does increased damage against this target for X seconds or until they're all shot. If Cassidy kills this target or get an assist with these bullets, it automatically reloads the weapon REALLY FAST and resets the damage amp for next 6 shots, this time for the whole enemy team. That's can reset indefinitely. Cassy can't use fan the hammer or reload (unless gets a reset) while the ultimate is active.

[@Watermelon_Man]

No

[@sirbongos]

@@Watermelon_Man agreed

[@Adiris_Shaw]

As a cas main since 2017 I actually really like this idea tbh, but idk Dead eye/ High noon is so iconic and satisfying

[@didata403]

​@@Adiris_Shaw Yeah it's there since the beggining. I think a lot of players love cassidy because he feels satisfying to play, his gun, his ultimate, even if sometimes he is not strong. It`s just an idea I had because I think it's very hard to balance his actual ultimate with only numbers, and this sounded to me like something easier to balance if the numbers are correct, just to bring something to the table to look at (:

[@Adiris_Shaw]

@@didata403 honestly yea I definitely would agree the satisfaction and if they were to buff it may be too oppressive.

[@johnbreadon4370]

Idk who wasn't using LFG bc I met almost all my current friends thru it, I'm so sad it's gone, I need a group now and idk where to go

[@Kuweiyo]

Nah Jose Rodriguez is 100000% correct. The majority of players choose DPS over any other class. This has only changed to support in OW2 because Support is now the strongest class in the game. But let's not forget that everyone was a Hanzo, Widow, and Genji main for nearly 5 years prior to OW2. And DPS has the most hero options even when adding Support and tank together.

[@tokyosterror]

Funniest part about that self healing take is that self healing was already removed from the scoreboard when they added the heal passive for everyone

[@RudeXII]

Hot take: Kiriko's Suzu and Swift Step should share a cooldown. Problem solved.

[@bende384]

Hot take: difficult heroes should be the strongest ones in higher levels of skill. For example a good ball/doom should have the advantage over a good orisa/hog, while it should be equal if the ball/doom are mid in skill. Easy to master characters should exist for less skillful players and should be viable in lower levels of play, but should be outmatched by harder to master characters.

[@jackobatgaming]

Hot Take: Constantly feeling like tanks need to be "buffed" creates a problem, instead of fixing it. The REASON tanks eat every CC and debuff the enemy team can manage, is the same reason why teams immediately counter pick a tank that is being effective: they HAVE to. When tanks complain that the play experience is "miserable" and ask for more buffs, it just further ensures that teams will go out of their way to punish tanks as often as they can. The REAL solution to this problem is to bring tank power down to the same level as every other hero so there is more reason to spread out those powerful abilities (or counter swaps) across the entire enemy team.

[@aeni13]

Tanks will be forever feel miserable to play. You get completly smashed if you play poorly or get outplayed by the enemies, and if you play well, you also get smashed by your counter, because in this game some counters literally negates the existence of the other character. Essentially, tanks will always be a rock paper scissors because they are the most important role. They were before, but with two players it wouldn't feel as miserable because you get covered by your partner. Unless we get 6v6 back, the only way to feel less miserable playing tank is if they are no longer that powerful, as you said. Because if they are too powerful, support will play dead by daylight and dps will play monster hunter. People can argue that is not the dps role to kill the tanks, but even if they try to kill supports, if the tank is more powerful and a good player, the support simply won't die. Ah, and we still have to consider that not every tank has the kit to really save someone, like Doomfist, Mauga, Hog and Ball.

[@jackobatgaming]

@@aeni13 Tanks don't NEED to be the most important role. They could be designed where they fill an important and useful role, but not an absolutely CRUCIAL role. Currently, too much of the team's power is tied up in the tank, which means the reward to negating or killing them is just too high to ignore. It warps too much of the game play. Your options are to play heroes the enemy tank can't reach (which is why Rein's lack of ability to reach or threaten high ground becomes so much of a problem,) play heroes that have enough escapes to evade the enemy tank, or you play the tank's counters and attempt to bully them and make their existence too difficult to get value. It also warps how the friendly team plays. Ever played support and felt like you couldn't spare the cooldowns to heal dps because the tank NEEDED to live? Every play dps and feel like your supports are literally not even trying to heal you, so you keep getting chipped out of the fight? This is a result of the tanks being too strong. And because tanks need to be able to survive that kind of punishing pressure, when your team ISN'T hard punishing the tank as much as possible, then tanks feel absolutely unkillable. I think ALL these problems come from the same place, when they decided that in OW2 tanks needed to be "mini bosses"... but of course the player base was bound to adapt and now we have all these other issues as a result.

[@aeni13]

@@jackobatgaming Yeah, exactly. I don't find that lack of support because I play Mei and Tracer, but when playing support, sometimes I really have to ignore my dps for that reason.

[@LFanimes333]

You’re just describing 6x6

[@bobothebob4716]

well in 6v6 tanks could easily be killed in 1v1 if you had skill. people forget so soon.

[@noi_x9]

Hot take: OW should have a point/score system in the scoreboard. I'm tired of toxic players using kills/deaths to their advantage, because it doesn't really tell anything, you could have 11 deaths because you're not being healed, or 2 kills because you deal a lot of damage for the team. An example of getting points is like a few points for your widow mine being triggered or a lot from sticking and killing with your tracer bomb. I got this idea from playing R6 (rainbow six siege) and it's honestly perfect for OW since both are team games that have toxic players, and it also pairs well with the idea of being able to see your healing received/output or other things.

[@noi_x9]

sorry it's long lol

[@boinqity4621]

i think an under utilized sym use case is in brawl comps on poke/dive maps she lets your team teleport from cover to cover and avoid the open space that makes those team comps strong. obviously this requires at least the majority of your team to be partied with you to pull off consistently but it's something to think about

[@ironman1458]

yea people did this in owl a lot. pretty fun to see but it does require an extreme amount of coordination like you mentioned

[@DokuDoki]

I agree that swift step is bigger problem than suzu, althouth rather than increase cooldown I would shorten the effective distance to 25 or 20 meters, I think that alone would lower the number of safe angles she can take while still being within ally's range

[@Diency.]

I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Kiriko. I try to play Mercy. Kiriko deals more damage. I try to play Ana. Kiriko deals more damage. I try to play Brig. Kiriko deals more damage. I want to play Lucio. His best team has Kiriko. My tank wants to play Orisa and Junker Queen. They both want Kiriko. She grabs me by the throat. I main her. I buy shop skins for her. I get to masters for her. She isn't satisfied. I have the most healing in the lobby. "I don't need this much healing stats" She tells me. "Do more damage with me." She grabs tracer and forces her to explode herself with the enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage if I flank." I can't flank, I don't have good enough aim. She grabs my Ana teammate. She doesn't have nano. "Guess this is the end." She grabs her Kitsune. She says "Let the Kitsune guide you." There is no hint of sadness in her eyes. Nothing but pure invulnerability and tp'ing away. What a cruel world.

[@saltyswann898]

Hot Take: all heros should be locked for new players until they complete really basic challenges (i.e. Ashe would be "kill a bot while unscoped & scoped, set 2 bots on fire, boop a bot off the map), that way new players have a better understanding of what each character can do.

[@katiekaliber]

That's basically what they did before and still nobody knew how to use anything so idk if that helps, can't teach people that refuse to learn honestly. It's not hard to find out what a hero does so if people refuse to do it they already don't give a crap.

[@julianebug8409]

"Nerf this" *twerking* *minion* WHY IS IT SO CAKED UP?

[@Adura10]

Cold take imo: Going off of what KarQ said at around 18:00, if a team has a leaver in comp, I believe the rest of that team should not lose rank progression if they stay past the 2 minute penalty warning the game gives. I've had multiple matches where my team is in a great position and we're winning just for a team mate to leave and we get snowballed till we lose. Call of Duty for example has this specific feature. The winning team still gets the win and the team that had the leaver doesn't get punished for something out of their control.

[@jonathansutherland5242]

Fantastic take.

[@PumPuum]

That sounds great until you realize the social aspect of this. 1. If the team knows they are going to lose, they will start massively pressuring the player that they perceive is performing the worst to leave because "they dont deserve this loss for such a bad teammate" 2. This makes non-solo queues so much more abusable, as you can prevent ranking loss by making your friend (who is using an alt) leave.

[@jonathansutherland5242]

@@PumPuum That makes sense, but I still hate the idea of deranking because someone bailed or gets disconnected.

[@joshp3446]

Thats when people load on a smurf account and they 5 stack. Then when they lose, the smurf account leaves

[@mxcristian11]

Stuff like this always goes back to the manipulation aspect of it though, there’s always going to be people out there that are just care wayyyy too much. They might que with a friend and be like hey this match isn’t going too great leave the match so I don’t lose any rank progress and sure the one person gets penalized but still I think you can see how this would be manipulated into benefiting some people.

[@Fazballs1954]

Hot Take: bap’s lamp and matrix abilities should swap. I think matrix would be more fun as an ability then lamp cuz it can be more flexible. You can use it defensively or offensively, you can use selfishly or combo it with teammates. It would need to be nerfed ofc. And lamp becoming a defensive ult similar to sound barrier could be more healthy for the game as well.

[@elitexxguy]

I always said they should replace discord with Bap window on a cd than make lamp baps ult

[@superi8802]

Hot take: Goats was the most goated meta there has ever been in ow. I just don't like dying like i do now :)

[@Omnicron800]

Hot take:lifeweaver is a healthier version of mercy with a higher skill floor and he should have his healing reeled back and his thorns should do more damage or have an added utility based on hitting the enemy a number of times similar to mauga.

[@Raddkann]

Overwatch actually used to have a mini video player

[@fayble7992]

Hot take: putting adding a healing received stat on the scoreboard will highlight poor support performance and directly lead to the improvement of all support players. If both supports have 10k heals at the end of a match and 7k of those heals are received by the tank supports will be flamed more. The flaming they get will drive them to try and spread the heals more equitably improving their decision making and prioritization!

[@ExTeeBee]

I do not at all think that "Healer" comes with the connotation that they have CC and buffing. Many RPG systems, and other games because OW2 is not an RPG anyways, have buff classes that don't heal, or have extremely minimal healing. "Healer" gives the connotation that their primary use, role, and effect, is healing. "Support" gives the connotation that their primary use, role, and effect, is to use tools to support their team.

[@kuddlethegamer]

Kirkio gets alot of hate but in my opinion she doesn't get enough hate. The age of Kirkio lovers is over, haters, rise up!

[@soundrogue4472]

3:39 1. No it's not the best "solution" to the problem. 2. Yes you are correct that support has the longest wait times, I LOVE playing support in games and not just Overwatch even if it is the most flamed role.

[@aeni13]

On higher ranks supports have longer queue than others?

[@soundrogue4472]

@@aeni13 I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if I'm honest.

[@soundrogue4472]

The guy deleted his reply after I called his response out lol.

[@aeni13]

@@soundrogue4472 Oh, when i answered it was already gone.

[@BandannaBread]

What feels bad about Suzu is that it can stop CC from your Ultimate. You're enemy messed up and you land the perfect Shatter? Suzu. You manage to corner a Roadhog after hitting them with Queen's Rampage? Suzu. You manage to finally push back the enemy team after landing Illari's Ult, lining everyone up for a chain Sunburst? Suzu. With anti heal and powerful CC available as regular abilities, a regular ability needs to be present in order to keep them from getting too out of control. That said, having your Ultimate rendered useless because the other team had one of their Supports pick Kiri feels very bad. Aside from that, Swift Step is a bit much, sure, but I don't think this situation can be fixed by only addressing one issue or the other.

[@mommyasmmr]

I feel like kiriko was suppose to be the support for flankers but she js ended up being the everything support. I think they should work on making her that.

[@salinaember9527]

hot take: the tank role should be optional. role queue should be a minimum of 2 dps - 2 support. the third spot is the "flex" spot reserved for a 3rd dps, a 3rd support, or a tank. this gives teams more freedom of choice. also, shield packs should be added into every map.

[@athena3177]

Support is the most "popular" role because its the roll with the least perceived pressure. Tanks get the most scrutiny and blame, then dps then supports. At most ranks if you just mindlessly healbot as support you are going to avoid most of the blame and toxicity that tanks/dps deal with. The reality of the impact good supports have isn't really felt in gold/plat, thats not to say you cant carry as support there but just inflating healing numbers is easy and safe

[@grombula721]

Supports get flamed before dps do in my experience

[@soundrogue4472]

5:40 a basic idea I had was, make her being able to do everything come at a cost and only more effective at closer ranges and make her abilities have a cost to them at further ranges, goes for TP, goes for healing, etc.

[@ArkusAutomaton]

Hot take: Kiriko and Ana are the tyrants of supports. With not only a high skill ceiling but with access to the most tools to disable/nullify all heroes, especially tanks.

[@pepekovallin]

I'll have to disagree on people wanting to play support over dps, not only DPS has the inherent appeal of not having as much responsibility (their only responsibility at a base level is doing damage and not dying) DPS also has a lot of variety on how to play and influence the battlefield, the fantasy of the DPS role is statistically more appealing to the vast majority of people that just want to log in a game, have some dumb fun, and log out. Even paladins that doesn't have a role restrictions sometimes suffers with this when most of the time the first 2 or 3 people pick their favorite damage hero and the last two either pick the hero they want, or they realize it'll be better for the team if they pick a tank and a healer

[@pepekovallin]

Hot take: people that don't want Hanzo's one shot to come back and their reason is "it's not healthy for the game" should take a step back and look at other characters designs, mei is annoying, so is moira, kiriko, Baptiste, mercy, junkrat, phara, sojourn, Zarya, Orisa, sombra; if you don't think they're annoying and actually likes fighting against them, there's someone out there that find them annoying but that's the nature of a game that wants to sell the "hero fantasy" of their game, some characters WILL force you to play a different way and nerfing Hanzo's one-shot just makes him feel not rewarding because his fantasy has been butchered to the point that torbjorn is a better projectile sniper than hanzo is, if you're gonna make me not feel rewarded for landing headshots on hanzo, and make me just try to hit body shots because it's easier I'd rather play Cassidy

[@kyoar3397]

Hot take: Symmetra's kit would work way better as a tank. Her primary fire ramps up too slow and ramps down too fast for how little health she has.

[@aSuperPi.]

5:20 Might be a hot take but she should have her Healing nerfed in some way. She is supposed to be the flanker support and at the moment she is being played as a Tank heal bot. She just has everything: High Survivability, High Damage, High Healing, and Immortality. She needs to lose something and I think losing some healing would make her the most enjoyable.

[@fettbub92]

8:00 this is something i hear a lot in metal ranks, from supports especially. They assume the tank's job is to fight off the enemy tank. They have no clue what staging, position, cover, or line of sight are; but theu can tell me what tank to switch to so i can counter their tank.

[@Kaisolostudio]

Comp wait time: Tank: 5 mins DPS: 8 mins Support: 1 min

[@12345kaizer]

Hot Take: If you simply remove healing abilities from the game and instead make healing healing packs the only way to get health back, a lot of problems go away

[@jrgmen]

I really want to play tank but it hasn’t been THAT fun.. depends on the patch now

[@french_toast223]

Well tanks do more than just tank damage but they are called tanks because thats 90% of their kits. All of the supports have healing abilities or passives that heal. Their PRIMARY fire is binded to their heal ability. They are supports as they do support the team (by means of mostly heals) But most of their job is to heal. Calling them healers is still fine.

[@Haakkon]

Hot take: It's really dumb that every Genji tech gets removed (Recently wall climb) but characters like doom, ball and even mercy get keep their techs or get them made easier.

[@OracleMusicOfficial]

Doom has had plenty of techs removed/bugged. each patch could mean some little thing changes for seemingly no reason

[@BackAlley0rchestra]

If there's no teammate within line of sight zen should be able to orb himself

[@katiekaliber]

no def not lmfao, healers already have mad self healing, a good zen is a monster, i think that'd be a terrible idea xD

[@Dfm25387]

Idk if this is a hot take or something people just need to here. if you want someone to swap flaming them often time they will stay at that hero as a f u for flaming them, but it you go about it like hey I see what your trying to do but I don't think we have the team comp for it. That would work much better

[@AloneInTheDork]

KarQ too nice today. I expected him to say "someone needs to look up the word niche". Cuz..yeah...niche.

[@DaLoserisYou]

Why'd the take at 12:52 get skipped?

[@Tichondrius-]

I guess editing mistake

[@TheKing0fBacon]

hot take: lucio boop should get +50 percent knockback each time you get an env kill and reset when you die with a cap of [phone] percent knockback

[@kingofnerds576]

I think swift step should have a cast animation, similar to Reaper's shadow step