I met Gramps! - A Conversation with

[@RenegadeScienceTeacher]

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[@DreadEnder]

I got it in your last video. It’s great! Even with the subjects I’m familiar with it showed them in a new light that taught me how to better understand them.

[@Cheesesteakfreak]

Forrest, the reason this guy isn't understanding you is because he doesn't have listening skills. You have to actually make him repeat you. Like a child. I know how these creationists are, they are either lazy, slow, or both.

[@dbzgod3529]

he said he would make a video to " highlight the essence of this video " do you think he will honestly represent you're points ??

[@Cheesesteakfreak]

Another issue with this guy is, he is constantly looking for examples of what he imagines are the best reasons to not accept Evolution is true. So you answer his silly baseless questions that demonstrate he has spent no time learning and then he is still lost. Instead of talking about his imagined reasons to not believe Evolution happened, it would be better to show the best evidence for Evolution itself. The best most incontrovertible evidence includes the fusing of Chromosome 2, retrovirus, genetics and olfactory similarities, ect.

[@FastAndEasy2010]

Now play tennis with him

[@Xaccers]

Gramps: I have studied all about evolution Morgan Freeman: He had not studied about evolution

[@Xaccers]

What would change your mind? Forrest: New evidence Gramps: Nothing

[@cion486]

I have studied it followed by I have never heard of epigenetics

[@Xaccers]

@@cion486 Yes! The number of times Forrest said something and Gramps just looked blank clearly not knowing what was being said. Did his "study" at the Discovery Center consist of just being told "Evolution is wrong", it sure seems that way.

[@parid1gm640]

Thank you Morgan Freeman 😂

[@michaelmay5453]

@a2225 Epigenetics is an amazing field. The idea that you could turn on and off genes helped us use designed treatments for everyone. It was my primary field for quite a few years (it's not as new as people seem to think). I got into it when we were studying HIV blockers. It's way too much to go into in a youtube comment but start here: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8156729/ if you are interested and then move on to more general searches regarding epigenetics. At some point you'll come across how that was used to enable a viral injection method to cure a form of cancer. That's where my work was.

[@vicenteochoa6498]

"I didnt know a lot about evolution, I just know I didnt believe in it" absolutely brilliant.

[@johnoglesby-vw7ck]

"I don't know much other than I disagree so WRONG"

[@ziploc2000]

I think this sums up Gramps. His mind was closed a long time ago.

[@calebdrawsstuff4446]

I held a similar view up until late high school because in middle school, my BIOLOGY teacher reaffirmed by bias by telling me and the rest of my class that 6 day creation was just as well supported as Evolution so take this lesson on it with a grain of salt. I think my teacher may have taken the "same evidence, different interpretation" approach that AIG expresses.

[@percy888ferry]

​@@ziploc2000Assuming it were ever open ...

[@dyerseve3001]

I wish Forrest pressed him on that, how can you dismiss something you don't understand. Ok a Simpsons quote that's similar: "Kirk, crackers are a family food, happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know." Same energy.

[@alicegaiba]

Gramps' whole argument is basically "I don't understand this, so it doesn't exist, therefore God"

[@yucky-yucky]

literally just god of the gaps

[@solacedagony1234]

Incredulity for the things that he's against.

[@EGOS42]

The argument from personal incredulity. My mind pinged to that phrase many times during this video.

[@Furry-ousNews]

he's just like his character from the movie! 😅

[@TalosCreepypasta]

God of the gaps is a hell of a drug.

[@TheVerySneakyCriminal]

The visual contrast between Forrest sitting with a library behind him, and James with a blank wall with a cross and candles is fantastic

[@thesingerintheshower]

It's symbolic of his mind 🧠 ...empty except for Christ

[@TheRealAdam85]

Bingo

[@JakeStrange66]

That's because there's only one book that matters. The wholly bibble.

[@TheVerySneakyCriminal]

@@JakeStrange66 the wholley stupid xx

[@jamesfetherston1190]

It becomes obvious that Gramps never before encountered anyone who knows what they are talking about.

[@John.0z]

I quite agree. He seems to be genuinely reduced to just sitting in disbelief that his treasured stock responses do have very clear, cogent, scientific answers.

[@jamesfetherston1190]

@@John.0z The penalty of living in an intellectual bubble.

[@xuxuang8574]

No. It's not that. He will do a "flerf reset". If you spoke to him in a day's time after this interview, he'd be asking exactly the same questions and saying they have no answer, just as if he had total amnesia.

[@lubrew5862]

He probably has encountered multiple people who have tried to explain these things to him, if what he is saying that he wanted to know is true. I have seen a lot of science deniers had their errors explained to them multiple times and those science denier just dismiss it.

[@ILikeMyPrivacytbt]

He said right from the beginning that you can believe in evolution or you can believe in God, but you can't believe in both. He said we would not believe in evolution no matter what because he can't believe in both. He is staying true to his character, this was never about trying to convince Gramps how evolution is true, it was his attempt to prove evolution is false and when he couldn't do that he just spun his wheels in the mud.

[@pedrg19]

Forrest, you are a true hero. Gramps begins the conversation saying: "I haven't heard a few of the terms you used, like epigenetics before." after he said he studied evolution and wrote a book about the topic, which clearly demonstrates the level of depth he has gone through with the topic. You explained things so well, you treated him kindly, I don't think I would have done the same here. You're awesome, dude!

[@philw6056]

He also said he studied evolution alongside his characters for his first book "reading, visiting the Discovery Institute and so on".

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Parker is an example of someone who learned just enough about evolution to not understand it, therefore god is an easier explanation to understand.

[@thuzUNed]

Yeah, Gramps admitted in the first 2 minutes that he is a bald-liar. His "movie" is clear evidence that all the studying he did on Evolution was listening to Ray Comfort KZbin clips. I'd bet my life that Gramps never read a book on Evolution that was not written by an apologist.

[@ChrisBreederveld]

I've rarely seen someone so graciously moving along with this level of goalpost shifting. Great job Forrest!

[@hamborger2200]

He seems to not respect his god's command that much either if he thinks he can write a book about evolution with minimal effort.

[@pyrobryan]

Forrest: [Describes the entire evolution of the eye and sight] Gramps: "That's a ridiculous explanation. First you have to wonder how sight could even come about." Forrest: "Is my microphone on?"

[@murph8411]

I know it’s very strange that Donald listens to this and then says you haven’t answered my question and that it is all just wishful thinking when Forest even gave him extant examples of the stages he described.

[@DuetJay]

Yep. That was the moment I stopped watching. There's only so much willful ignorance I can handle.

[@aceyriot]

@@DuetJay You really ought to keep watching, He's totally 3 minutes away from fully embracing the judgemental head tilt, full obstinate incredulous curmudgeon arguing points he already had debunked with tired metaphor after tired metaphor. all the same meaningless drivel just in a different package. He slowly slides from 'kind old man *from a different time* " into "basically Kent Hovind" but with far less energy. His mug implies 'coffee' but his demeanor and receptiveness imply 'nyquil sweetened with lead sugar'

[@WayraHyena]

Earlier they used the example of flat earthers as people who can be presented with all the evidence to the contrary and still stay convinced that they're right. And I just. That was the frustration I felt. Forrest just described the step by step process to making an eye. He said it with the words you just listened to. He offered to elaborate. He did elaborate. Forrest has more energy, patience, and grace than I will ever have. I've heard of secondhand embarrassment but this is like secondhand exhaustion.

[@Sention01]

47:14 is exactly when I gave up on Donald. I don't think it was intentional but he wasn't listening. I think much of ignorance is not listening because you're ruining a dialogue in your head. All humans do it. It requires mindfulness to get out of it.

[@kevinkennedy8296]

Gramps 11:08- “I didn’t know what evolution was, I just knew I didn’t believe in it” This sets the tone for the entire video

[@Maker0824]

Really is a terrible way to start. “I had no idea what it was. All I knew is that I didn’t like it.” I don’t know anything about Muslin stuff. All I know is that it is a religion, and I don’t really like religion. I’ve heard bad things about it, but without actually being educated on it I can’t possibly hate it.

[@TheLowBrassDude]

"We will not give in to the thinkers!"

[@craaab____721]

Thinking hurts my head

[@MossyMozart]

​@@Maker0824 - I have heard bad things about Islam, but from biased people who never studied it. I have also heard great things. The same with Christianity, Judaism, Norse mythology, etc. Like Valkai said, there are 1,000s of gods and denominations, each with their own demands of their followers. I was a devout little Mormon until too many negatives built up for me to stay. I bugged out at 19 and by about 20, I was an atheist. They never got me to doubt evolution, though! I read about dinosaurs and archaic humans as a little kid and knew the truth on that score. It just took a while longer for the rest of my belief system to redial. And that's even with "visitations". They concerned the death of my father at age 5, I had a auditory visit from "Yeshu'" telling me that my father would come home from the hospital, but would soon go to live in heaven. Then i had one of those post-death trauma aural visions of "Yeshu' with his arm around my father". But even then, I knew they were either dreams or wishful thinking.

i mean, if i'm being charitable, i also don't believe things that i don't know almost anything about. but the more i learn about evolution, the more i believe that it's accurate, so...

[@solacedagony1234]

"You can't satisfactorily answer this question because I've already decided my conclusion." *shuts down brain*

[@EmilyJackson-h8k]

What struck me most about that statement is that Donald never actually explained where his dissatisfaction came from. Forrest tried to ask questions to see where the disconnect was, but it didn’t matter. All the evidence in the world won’t convince someone who has already made up their mind.

[@moonblue5833]

Windows xp. DUOH DO DUN DOH.

[@TheXermish]

Ya this is incredibly frustrating and he even claims to Forrest he can't be convinced of God but I've heard Forrest say he could be. He just wouldn't worship it...

[@edlove7594]

If your consciousness were the source of your confidence or nonconfidence towards things, then that would mean you the consciousness determines your state of confidence…. If you don't have an open mind then your brain will not intake, understand and express confidence towards whatever it is you understand! GTFOH Hey Brain! Yes? You better have confidence towards or against ________ lmao 😅 Only if that were the case in life?

[@AverageWagie]

Literal lead brain

[@joshuaandashleyearles-benn4749]

If there’s ever a great example on why scientists don’t like to platform anti-science, it is this video. Grampa wasn’t here to learn, he was here to get attention.

[@quintonsm2616]

It's the epitome of being willfully ignorant

[@quintonsm2616]

@@pogers625 he listened but due to having a pre conceived world view did not take in any information.

[@quintonsm2616]

@@pogers625 I didn't say we aren't fallible or perfect. I'm saying he asks a question "listens" to the answer yet does not even process it's validity. I agree we have all pre concieved world views but part of being an honest interlocutor is acknowledging points and being a reasoned person is willing to change perspective if presented with logic and reason. People can be respected but opinions can (and should) be ridiculed of its deserved.

[@coreywolfe5074]

​@quintonsm2616 agree wholeheartedly. Opinions, concepts, ideas, and beliefs are under no obligation to be respected. It's not my fault if you were a product of your environment, if you have a shitty take, you have a shitty take, and I will call that out.

[@nemamiah7832]

​@@quintonsm2616 because it's done in a format, where it's incredibly hard to admit, that you are wrong. It's hard for people in general, harder for long held entrenched beliefs AND doubly so in a public space. Here's there to argue, not to be convinced. Both of them should've known that at least unconsciously. Saying "You know what, you are right, this makes sense!" would be an incredible feat of mental firepower, in front of all that crowd (both us and his own viewers). Screaming to the world, that all those books you've written, the movie too - were for naught. That you were indeed mistaken. It's difficult. For everyone.

[@Ligierthegreensun]

28:00 flat earthers drive you insane, eh, Donald? They don’t listen to evidence even when you show them? That must be tough lmao

[@sthed6832]

Yeah, flat earthers use exactly the same kind of evidence creationists do. And most of them believe it because it is in the Bible, just like creationists do. They just ignore different sets of evidence.

[@Abalabexabandraba]

Flat earthers just drew a different bullseye, they were still playing the same blind game

[@Gildedmuse]

​@@sthed6832Honest question, are most flat earthers creationist? I mean, I've never given it a lot of thought. I assumed the flat earthers were like their own little group of crazy.

[@sthed6832]

@@Gildedmuse They appear to be. Most don't talk about religion, but the ones who do tend to be Bible literalists. Of course most creationists are not flat earthers. I know a flat earther, and she is a literalist - and a believer in every CT out there.

[@Gildedmuse]

@@sthed6832 Ahh. Maybe it's because I've only ever met two flat earthers irl (both on public transportation, both without any prompting from me. In one case I was literally just trying to distract his kids from screaming and fighting because I happened to have some paper on me and use to be a nanny so asked if they liked to draw. Getting YOUR kids to behave is not permission to tell me about how the government is lying about the globe) but neither gave off strong Christian vibes. Although, I will say that when I think about it like that, the only other people who have felt the need to come up to me and randomly ask something like, "have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Savior?" have been Christian. However, they both gave me the impression they would tell me that the Pope was a lizard and Christianity is just another way to control the sheeple. They were.... a lot. Sweet kids, though, once you paid them some attention. The mom, who was trying to murder the third, seemed sweet and incredibly thankful as well. I remember I had some keychains of Black Panther, Iron Man and Spider-Gwen (the little pop ones) and let them play with them some, including the baby, because the mom didn't want the youngest one or baby using markers and the young boy quickly got bored of the pencil. So I let them play superheroes. At the end the mom had them all say thank you and that's when I realized I had just lost those keychains, the mom did not understand that was not a gift and I didn't have it in me to stress this lady out more by taking them away from the kids.... still, they seemed sweet enough and normal. It was just the dad who was weird.

[@kathykiger7548]

A discussion like this will never go anywhere. Gramps came to argue and to try to score points, not have an open-minded discussion

[@tiltingwindmill]

Completely agree. Each time (nearly) he pulled out yet another boring piece of anti science anti evolution religious apologetics. So so sad.

[@lunova6165]

He literally said he came in the mindset that he couldn't change his mind, and even if he preseented evidence he wouldn't be convinced.

[@scottlarson1548]

Unfortunately he knew Forrest likes to talk so Gramps just kept him rambling on topics. While Forrest spoke at times for up to two minutes, Gramps sat there pretending to listen and deciding what question would send him onto another topic that he would ignore.

[@guaranagaucho3071]

Forrest broke it down so compassionately and tried to hold his hand through the entire thought process. Wish donald would have just let go of his delusions, this could have been a powerful, pivotal moment in his life.

[@scottlarson1548]

@@guaranagaucho3071 I wish Forrest could have broken down his long explanations into shorter back and forth interactions with Gramps so it would have been obvious that Gramps was not understanding anything he was telling him. It seemed to me that Forrest thought he was in front of a classroom instead of talking to a single person.

[@DG123z]

"I would rather know the truth than be happy" Same.

[@TurkishNationalistABC]

One day the knowledge shall be brought to you that, in fact, the truth is not always the best outcome.

[@ElusiveEel]

I don't know about that myself, but it's not like I have a choice in the matter, I can't just stop caring about what is true and isn't.

[@noone3216]

I always tell people, I'll always prefer the bitter truth over a sweet lie.

[@CorporalGrievous93]

There are COUNTLESS situations where honesty/truth is not the best policy.

[@MossyMozart]

​@@CorporalGrievous93 - When I worked with kids, I was always truthful. For example, needles DO hurt; why undermine my credibility with them by saying they don't? The only time where lieing is the choice: in a dire situation where the truth will lead to yours or someone else's imminent harm. An example is when someone has a gun to your head or with someone lost to dementia. On an Alzheimer's forum, a poster helped me see that a lie could be the best path. Her mother had severe dementia and demanded to know when her son would visit. The daughter would again explain that he could not because he was in prison. The mother would immediately sundown and be in loud, anguished despair for hours. But once she started to say that the son was "coming on Saturday", the mother accepted that and soon forgot. In this case, lieing was a kindness.

[@EmilyKveldulv]

Forrest: Excuse me, sir, but I do believe you've dropped your wallet. Gramps: Doesn't look familiar to me. Forrest: What? I just saw you drop it. Here. Gramps: Nope, it's not mine. Forrest: It is yours. I am trying to be a good person and return it to you. Gramps: Return what to who? Forrest: [facepalms, then shows Gramps his ID] Aren't you Gramps? Gramps: Yup. Forrest: And this is your ID. Gramps: Yup. Forrest: I found this ID in this wallet. And if that's the case, this must be your wallet. Gramps: That makes sense to me. Forrest: Then take it. Gramps: It's not my wallet.

[@deshaebeasley]

good analogy.

[@repelsteeltje90]

What are you talking about? There are no wallets in the Nicene Creed!

[@TheMArtagnan]

Yeah pretty much

[@CYBRLFT]

lmao!!! This is a skit from SpongeBob SquarePants starring Patrick Star ⭐️ 🤣 beautifully relevant to this exact context lmao. Well done!

[@gobletgobletstein5672]

i like your fursona

[@DuctTapeJake]

Forrest: "Here is exactly how this concept works, does that make sense?" Donald: "A little bit, but have you considered this unrelated platitude I stole from someone else?"

[@sthed6832]

Yeah, just about every gotcha Don had is straight from your normal creationist bs. He had nothing else.

[@corvinredacted]

I thought Gramps misspoke when he said it's important to define our platitudes, but I think he is actually just entirely platitude-driven. He doesn't know any other style of communication exists.

[@LOH__]

💯

[@Furry-ousNews]

"Or what about my terrible analogy? " - chess grandmaster gramps

[@gsp3428]

Here is how it works, I am Forrest, I am a biologist, I say something is true, now you better believe it or you are crazy. Because I am a biologist and I get to tell the world what is true and not true. Dont you know I am a biologist

[@itsagazebo]

The GIANT lapses of silence on his side, followed by complete non-sequiturs, speaks volumes to the honesty of his intentions and the lack of real openness to change.

[@trchri]

Forrest is treating him like a grandparent who is convinced that they should send all their money to an obvious scam operation. He’s working so hard to take everything he says to heart and speak to him in a way he’ll understand and connect. He must be a great teacher in the classroom.

[@MrGundawindy]

The irony is, he is likely in the scam already. Most churches expect a 10% tithing, and he seems like the kind of guy that is giving at least 10% of his income to the church already.

[@Rob_OT42]

My first thought when watching this was “Forrest must be one hell of a teacher. He is so patient and truly listens to the “student” to learn where he is at, so he can meet him at that level and build up from there. He is never condescending or arrogant. He just explains, and then listens to see if his explanation was understood. Then if it wasn’t, he tries a new approach. An excellent example of how to teach to each person’s strengths.

[@Gildedmuse]

​@@MrGundawindyI thought that was only Catholicism?

[@MrGundawindy]

@@Gildedmuse so many religions have a similar financial situation. That's how they sustain themselves.

[@Gildedmuse]

@@MrGundawindy Fair enough. You can tell who was raised Catholic.

[@averyray3812]

"If you can convince me there's no god, I wouldn't know anything" is a very telling statement...

[@kyuubisgirl3232]

I mean, he barely knows anything while believing in a god...

[@PlanetNoble]

This guy lacks the most basic understanding of Biology. My High School Freshman level Biology class more than 40 years ago taught me enough to follow along with Forest. And he's probably in the camp of people that want to block teaching evolution in science classes. I believe this lack of understanding is the root of the problem here. Good on Forest for attempting to educate him.

[@Mystrohan]

First time I've ever seen someone shoehorn presupposition arguments into a discussion without knowing what there were. Quite a feat for Gramps there.

[@chadingram6390]

@@kyuubisgirl3232Apparently he knows how to code, this is pure indoctrination. He said his life is meaningless and purposeless without god. Dude just worked himself to the bone filled with stress, indoctrination and loneliness and just snapped.

[@franktheexpertstrenchclub9025]

Conveniently for him, his situation would change 0% if that happened.

[@RaechylBlackfyre]

The inadvertent comedy of Gramps just staring S I L E N T L Y into the camera for a solid 45s after Forrest makes this articulate point is just *chef's kiss*, wonderful.

[@TGabes_Gaming]

Honestly it was art

[@tylarjackson7928]

It was 25 seconds actually, but who's counting? Honestly that was crazy. I think Gramps was letting his ego get the better of him and refusing to let Forrest control the flow of the conversation. But I'm pretty sure Gramps only spoke for like 10 minutes out of this whole 2.5 hour video, and he lost any semblance of control about 5 minutes in.

[@goldenknight578]

It was just made worse when he broke the silence by saying some version of "Nuh-uh" every time.

[@goldenknight578]

@@tylarjackson7928Gramps pretty much sums it all up near the end by admitting that there's no way Forrest (or anyone else) could change his mind, and that he actively DOES NOT WANT to change his mind. I'd feel sorry for him if it wasn't for his obvious ego.

[@tylarjackson7928]

@@goldenknight578 For sure. Some might chalk this up to "standing firm in his faith", but it's just a typical "I'm never wrong" ego trip

[@1998CJTube]

The most profound statement Gramps made in that entire video was 15 seconds of deafening silence with a blank stare… and he made that statement several times.

[@thesingerintheshower]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@VicedRhino]

The contrast between Gramps' debate performance here and his debate performance in a movie where he controls both sides of the discussion is quite stark. I notice he didn't get any of his signature zingers in 🤔

[@christasimon9716]

_waves_ Hello!

[@jemborg]

😂👍... There were times I'd thought my internet hung. 😶

[@gradstdnt7232]

@@jemborg Donald's silent responses were deafening. Would be interesting to see his edited version of this event without looking like he's lost and drifting in a sea of knowledge.

[@sryberg16]

The one zinger he tries to get in is “How can lungs, Blood, and brain evolve when they’re codependent on each other?” Which Forrest then answers how we can learn these things through “mosaic evolution” by observing similar systems His response is just to bring up the same argument with different organ systems, so Forrest just repeats the same answer

[@freelanceminion7396]

He TRIED. He tried to make some of those dad jokes that probably go over very well with a sympathetic Christian audience and then Forrest just said no and gave him a real answer.

[@genXstream]

"You've used a couple terms, there [about evolutionary processes], I've never heard before." - author of a book on evolution.

[@shanewilson7994]

Yup, dude's not actually put any actual research into the topic which he pretends to be highly knowledgeable about and able to debunk, when his education level for this is Kent Hovind level.

[@maninalift]

And that was in a 30-second overview of evolution. Terms like "epigenetics", it's not like these were obscure and technical. Anyone who has read a popsci book on evolution should have encountered them.

[@crazygreenlady7907]

Frightening

[@d_camara]

-someone that has never written for the evolution scientific scenario, for a reason

[@Barished]

That's what bothers me the most about "Gramps". So many times he had to do that.

[@johnbrophy6159]

It didn't take Gramps long to realize he was in way way over his head. A veritable ballet of argument from incredulity, argument from complexity, moving the goalpost, and sprinkled with non-relative anecdotes to taste.

[@kdmedic2005]

This ❤

[@jamierichardson7683]

And extreme cog dis radiating out

[@danikinzstar]

It's really sad to see someone struggle in their understanding, but still cling to what they know, even with someone as patient and competent as Forrest to walk him through stuff you normally gain access to only from a college lecture.

[@Kantilvih]

​@@user-qt1cu3ec5w no place would be good for eternity. Forever is a long time.

[@imveryangryitsnotbutter]

@@user-qt1cu3ec5w I mean to be fair, God is in heaven, and he's proven himself to be an absolute dick, what with genociding the entire human race apart from Noah and his wife, genociding everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah, genociding the Egyptians, etc. And before you say, "Oh, but they were all evil!", remember that God is supposedly omnipotent. That means that he has the power to make the wickedest people feel remorse for their actions and genuinely reform to be good. He's also supposedly omniscient, which means that he can effortlessly figure out a way to reform evildoers without overriding their free will. And yet, the supposedly omnibenevolent God took the easy way out every time and just killed 'em all. All in all, God sounds pretty slothful and wrathful to me. I wouldn't want to be on the same plane of existence as that guy.

[@__Andrew]

11:01 "I didnt know anything about evolution, i just knew i didn't believe it" sums it all up really well

[@ninecowsh9228]

2.5 h of an old man suffering from cognitive dissonance. Amazing job, Forrest. You gave him a lot to think about.

[@brianblakley2535]

He’s not going to think about it. It’s literally impossible to reason with people like this.

[@kyuubisgirl3232]

Except he won't think about it. He'll probably go write another crap script and base an evil atheist on Forrest.

[@jmike2039]

Forrest is the goat

[@Skyfool64]

He won't think about any of it. I'm sure he'll find it easier to stick with his nonsense and ignorance

[@Salmonboy5000]

2.5 INCREDIBLY ENTERTAINING h of an old man suffering from cognitive dissonance!

[@brokenjack27]

The number of times Forrest rendered Donald into stunned silence is extremely telling. This is a man who's never challenged his own beliefs or investigated his own thoughts.

[@bcwest619]

This is a 2.5 hour long view of a man experiencing massive amounts of cognitive dissonance. It's really pretty sad to watch and think about the fact that at one point in life I thought the same way, but I got over it once I wasn't a teenager anymore. It's sad someone got to that age without ever actually questioning his beliefs.

[@extremelynormalperson]

​@@bcwest619my thoughts exactly. Sadly it's too late for him to deconstruct his entire worldview.

[@LtksK]

Actually the stunned silence is the one thing I would commend him for. It shows that he actually listened to what Forrest said and thought about it. Otherwise there wouldn't be any silence, but an instant reaction. Of course the very important step of drawing conclusions to what he thought about, rather than coming up with another way of denial, is still missing. But at least he got two steps further (listening and thinking) than most of the people I've seen talking to Forrest. I never was religious, but I had believes I don't have anymore. The first step of changing my believes was listening. For example I had discussions with my older brother about politics. I thought he was completely wrong. But to be honest, up to that point I didn't think about politics a whole lot, so my perspective was quite limited. My older brother didn't manage to convince me on the spot. But the fact that I listened to him and thought about what the said, helped me to open up about new perspectives and made me interested in politics. I've learned a lot since then and changed a lot of my believes. Donald is in a similar spot. He didn't think a whole lot about evolution. He just heard some stuff about it (that is quite wrong) and came to some stupid conclusions. And now he met someone who actually is knowledgeable and listened to him. I'm not saying he will change his mind eventually. In addition to not having any knowledge about the topic, he also has his religious believes limiting his willingness to draw new conclusions about it. He also had more time spend with his current believes than I did back then. So he probably has a harder time changing his believes than I had. Still, him listening and thinking about it is a huge step many people are willing to go and I think it's great he did them. Also while he said that he isn't willing to change his believes and hopes he won't isn't something I would criticize too much. As bad as it sounds, in my experience most people aren't willing to change their believes during a discussion. Most often people do that afterwards. I'm not a psychologist, but I'm pretty sure it has something to do with not wanting to look weak or something similar. Even though being open to challenge your believes is considered a strength. At least on a rational level. Too bad people often are irrational.

[@Owlet101]

​@@extremelynormalperson it's never too late to reevaluate yourself.

[@extremelynormalperson]

@@Owlet101 of course, but I mean for him personally. You can clearly tell his emotional pain would outweigh his desire to know the truth.

[@Shuhannazy]

*writes book on evolution* forrest : epigenetics *I never heard that word before*

[@BuIIetBiII]

eh, not entirely fair. You can definitely know the fundamentals of evolution without knowing what epigenetics is. I only learned what epigenetics was in my second year of university and I had a decent understanding of evolution before that

[@noodle_tax]

​@@BuIIetBiII theres a difference between "a decent understanding" and publishing content to thousands of people about how evolution is fake

[@Shuhannazy]

did you feel you had a deep enough understanding to write a book about it?@@BuIIetBiII

[@Faint366]

⁠@@BuIIetBiIIand did you see fit to write a book on the subject prior to your second year of university? That’s the point. He felt arrogant enough to write an entire book about a subject he’d never learned anything about

[@Chrisg841]

​@BuIIetBiII yeah but you don't write books on something you don't have a great understanding of unless you have an agenda.

[@spartan73145]

The end of this video was so sad. He’s just a scared old man; too afraid to accept that he’ll die. 😢

[@coffeebean7512]

this is kinda what I felt. I honestly feel bad for him. I dont think he can cope properly so hes filling up his life with writing and producing films and books. poor guy.

[@eme1972]

A man wrote a book about evolution who doesn’t know the high school definition of evolution. I asked my students in 10th grade today and they nailed it.

[@AO_Rourke]

So biased 😂

[@benf6822]

Which country are you in and what is currently going as the 10th grade definition there? I'm currently doing a masters in education (humanities, geography, science and biology) so I'm really curious how close it is to the definition I use when I speak to peers.

[@theperfectbotsteve4916]

I feel like the 10th grade definition isn't far off because it's just the definition in general if you give or take a few simplifications.

[@benf6822]

@theperfectbotsteve4916 that's why I'm really curious, because the definition starts simple early on and mostly true and then just builds year by year as understanding grows

[@tsims7638]

This guy made a whole movie about evolution and admitted here he didn’t know much about it. Your efforts are admirable, Forest! Thanks for this!

[@DeltaV11]

He was completely lost when Forrest mentioned epigenetics…WTF?!? Has this guy ever read ANYTHING about evolution?? Why is he making movies about this?!

[@annakeye]

@@DeltaV11 He's cut from the same cloth as Ken Ham, Matt "I'm holding spit in my mouth to see if I dribble" Powell, Kent Hovind _et al_ in that they next to nothing about evolution. That is intentional ignorance because they are scared of being wrong. Regardless of the fact that atheism is a world view; evolution - a scientific one.

[@gaudphree841]

Gramps is adamant that the earth is not flat. Yet he doesn't want to accept other scientific discoveries.

[@wgriffin3460]

Honestly, when he brought that up I thought for sure he was going to say the world is flat...

[@tinhoyhu]

He's amazed that flat earthers believe in a flat earth. Right after, he goes to say that he feels the same about evolutionists. Near the end, Forrest should've also listed Round Earth as something Donald accepts without a super-critical lens. Maybe that would've connected better.

[@loki6626]

Flat earthers use exactly the same extreme confirmation bias as creationists do. They ignore, misrepresent or call fake on any evidence that opposes their position and replace it with magic.

[@AnnoyingNewsletters]

I was hoping Forrest would have traveled down that route to show how we know what the shape of the Earth is, and how that process works to show the mechanisms of evolution.

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

As a firm believer in the past I would only reject those fields of science which were in conflict with my beliefs, subconsciously believing they would change in the future to show that my beliefs were true…. Because I was convinced that my beliefs were true…. Because I had personal experiences which were explained in a way that reinforced my beliefs. That’s how it works, I believe 😅

[@danielduvana]

When Gramps just sits there quiet for so long after Forest says something… you can just feel how Gramps just doesn’t listen, doesn’t care and is just thinking about where to shift the conversation to.

[@howdoyouknow1218]

Definitely. He says “you’re never going to change my mind”, so I don’t think he even wanted to listen as a defense mechanism.

[@danielduvana]

@@howdoyouknow1218 yeah that part was insane to hear someone say out loud. He admitted that he is closed minded and wants/hopes to not change his mind. That’s in direct opposition to caring about if what you believe is true.

[@lupoleone8735]

I think he was internalizing most things. I just think that he got really scared. And at the end of the day, if he is happier believing I'd leave that be. I know I'd want to believe if I could. I just hope he is convinced to stay out of the scientific discourse from now untill hopefully he has time to check his facts a little more.

[@scottlarson1548]

Absolutely! All Gramps was hearing was, "Natural selection is _blah blah blah blah blah blah_ *DNA* _blah blah blah blah blah_ ." So what does he do? He asks a completely irrelevant question about DNA because while he didn't understand anything Forrest said, he *did* hear him say the word "DNA".

[@kjfreepta1]

My thoughts exactly!!!

[@lavendersugar143]

2:26:09 He straight up said the silent part out loud. "I hope you can't change my mind because I think I am right, and the idea of being wrong is terrifying." Holy shit.

[@thedaysadventure1272]

RIGHT!!!!!!! lets just be honest this person should keep believing in his god, I'm not sure he wouldn't become truly evil if his overlord isn't watching.

[@ilonachan]

@@thedaysadventure1272 Disagree. Those are very different axes right there. He didn't even say that he derives his morality from God (though he probably does, I'll grant that) but even then: most people who say that are lying. To themselves. They actually already HAVE a moral compass, they just don't think about it that way because they think the bible matches it perfectly and is the basis for it. So what happens when you confront them with the HEINOUS bible verses about, let's say, all the genocides that God commanded? Something that contradicts their own intuitive sense of morality? One of two things. They'll either find a way to rationalize those verses away, to explain why they don't ACTUALLY say that those terrible things are good, or why we should ignore those verses, or why context matters... and they usually fail, because they've never thought about morality enough to make coherent arguments there. But they do TRY to make them, which is the important part. This is them putting their own moral compass over god's pronouncements, and just trying to make that work without actively denying the latter. Or they end up accepting that that's what God says, but not easily. They have to grapple with it, and end up saying something like "god works in mysterious ways" or "it's not my place to judge" or stuff like that. Again, failures of moral arguments that themselves imply heinous positions, but not really; these people just haven't thought about it. I don't think they're happy about their god saying that either, but he did, apparently, so what can you do. Of course technically there's also the people who really would just accept a moral pronouncement from the bible as it is, who would just go "yea I guess that means genocide is a-ok actually". But that is the rarity, and not the natural conclusion as you imply. This man, Donald James Parker, does not seem like the kind of person who would start murdering people left and right if he knew that he was not gonna be punished for it in the afterlife. He seems like a kind old man with a good heart, who just believes incorrect things in a misguided way. I could be wrong, but I have no reason to believe I am.

[@holygore]

It was bad faith for him to say he was willing to change when he had already came to a conclusion. Me personally would call that a lie.

[@Detson404]

@@ilonachanYeah, I think that’s true. It’s why I think talking about ethical systems is mostly pointless. We’re all just justifying our own emotional intuitions, at least I am.

[@mtbee9641]

It’s amazing that accepting reality is worse to him than the comfort of believing in the imaginary.

[@ChaoticBluebird]

OK i think I'm going to have to watch this in bite size chunks because... I can't. I just can't. you are infinitely more patient than I am, and give this guy way more lee-way than he deserves. I'm half an hour in and he hasn't answer the first question you've posed about 'if God was proved not real, would you then believe in evolution'? He just keeps going on these dissociated tangents and waffling. Its infuriating.

[@Taraeth]

I managed 14 minutes, when he came along with his 6 ft football player girls "I didn't see it so it didn't exist" analogy I just knew I couldn't get through this for 2.5 hours, lol

[@SakkaraKirax]

​@@Taraeth That is EXACTLY where I am right now. I'm pausing to take a break to read comments because I'm not sure if I can sit through it. Forrest is a much more patient person than I am.

[@7792pnaurfr]

Willing to support Forrest's algorithm. Because this is gonna be hard to watch. Difficult experiences are a must in life. Lol

[@MortlachNL]

Yep, it doesn't matter what you say, nothing gets taken onboard. "How did sight evolve?" Right after Forrest spent 5 minutes explaining how eyes evolved.

[@mikehent3479]

Can anyone else see Donald's eyes just glaz over? I think it took five minutes

[@meltorme-ntor2933]

Gramps doesn't really answer the questions does he? he just doesn't even want to listen.

[@thomasjackson173]

He just stares like tucker carlson with this frozen look

[@briannewton3535]

I'm not even sure if it is even "... want to listen." I don't think Gramps is capable of listening, he seems too committed/obligated to his beliefs.

[@miniflem1]

Isn't that every fundie ever?

[@doonslove9693]

Your kindness, patience and ability to explain complex things in so many relatable and easy to under things is incredible. You deserve way more than what I am giving ✨

[@joethompson132]

You know I give props to gramps for having the conversation and being as up front as he is capable. He may not have changed anything thought wise but he was cordial and polite and that was cool.

[@martin2289]

Setting the bar pretty low there. Wish this renowned filmmaker could have gotten his camera to not cut off his head.

[@thepineapplegal9099]

@@martin2289true, i think we’ve all gotten used to awful and rude people on the internet so it’s nice to see someone less bad lol

[@justinlindfors8512]

@@martin2289 let's be fair the bar can be lower. He's nice enough to have good faith in.

[@betadecay6503]

​@@justinlindfors8512"you cannot change my mind." There was no good faith here. Not being a complete dick is not the same as acting in good faith

[@justinlindfors8512]

@@betadecay6503 Can't remeber him saying that verbatim but I do remember him saying "you can't convince me", which is not the same as "I don't understand". Sure he claims he cannot be convinced but unless he's actually confused and just nodding his head which i hope not cuz Valkai gave him plenty of opportunities to bring up any misunderstandings or questions, then there's no problem here. The only problem here besides the comment section not giving the benefit of the doubt, is Gramps treating this like a philosophical discussion rather than a scientific one as if religious people have no understanding of what science in general. For example it doesn't matter what we gain from evolution that's not the point of science, it's not the same as gaining meaning or purpose from religion or a passion etc.

[@johncromer2603]

Forrest: explains how the eye evolved Gramps: but how did the eye come about?

[@CaptFoster5]

We can all appreciate Forrest's willingness to teach, but this gramps dude was clearly not interested in learning anything new. He is nothing more than the super sweet and overly nice version of Kent Hovind.

[@johncromer2603]

@@CaptFoster5 I 100% agree

[@jamesmountz2915]

I yelled "he just told you" so loud I scared the shit out of cat lmao😂😂

[@andrewtheapostate]

This! I came here to say the same thing! He clearly checked out during Forest's explanation.

[@the-wisest-emu]

It's like Zoolander. Meets a guy who explains the bad guys' entire plan about using male models for devious purposes, and Zoolander just replies, "Yeah, but why male models?"

[@AdamTheJensen]

DJP has that look as he listens that tells you he's not really trying to understand. He listening for a "gotcha" and waiting for a moment he can interject with his testimony of jesus.

[@blondequijote]

Some ppl rrally thibk Jesus is always the answer, no matter what the question might be.

[@littlebitofhope1489]

Which is ironic because it ends up being a testimony for Forrest.

[@mikey-wl2jt]

yeah, he just...doesn't get it

[@briannewton3535]

@@blondequijote When you need an image of someone to appear on your morning toast, or in the backside of a dog, Jesus usually is often the answer...

[@joehemmann1156]

Yeah, I agree with the look on his face assessment, COVERAGE shit eating grin on that guy...

[@toryalyn]

Poor Gramps was absolutely NOT ready for you, Forrest. This is as so hard to watch even split up lol

[@ImAmirus]

I also felt sorry, because I recently read about Cerebral atrophy. Its not his fault. Well, unless he was an alcoholic or took certain class of steroids.

[@Mystrohan]

@@ImAmirus He makes a big deal in his movie about never touching alcohol.

[@ImAmirus]

@ yeah but that might be a reactionary redemption arc thing.

[@JRRTokeKing]

Gramps is stuck using thought-stopping techniques he probably isn’t even aware of. It’s like his brain won’t allow him to accept the data in front of him.

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

That’s normal. When we speak to an expert, it’s hard to process all at once. Especially when you disagree. It takes time to come to terms with your views you have built up over the years , no?

[@John.0z]

@@mcfunthomas_mc Very true; but I would suggest that Donald has taken this reaction to an extreme. I have to wonder if he will think about what was said, or just maintain what seems to be a closed mind?

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

@@John.0z The latter I’m afraid. At least for now.

[@Natenick5]

Yup, as it would force him to reconsider his life and he is deathly afraid of that

[@mcfunthomas_mc]

@@Natenick5 In evangelical circles it’s not a nice feeling when you have to admit to be wrong about your beliefs to a non-believer. Especially when you built a castle of your arguments and didn’t notice that you used sand to build it.

[@Gainoffuntion]

Gramps was incredibly disingenuous. Props to you ever trying Forrest.

[@CaptFoster5]

We can all appreciate Forrest's willingness to teach, but this gramps dude was clearly not interested in learning anything new. He is nothing more than the super sweet and overly nice version of Kent Hovind.

[@Gainoffuntion]

@CaptFoster5 damn i wouldn't insult gramps that hard-core. Maybe Ken ham. But hovind? Dudes a criminal of the highest order.

[@archivist17]

I'm glad he was prepared to have the discussion. But he comes from a very dogmatic position, and was never likely to do anything to harm his cash cow.

[@blondequijote]

​@@archivist17Gramps has confirmed in other interviews that he funds all his "films" himself. They're low budget af, but they don't turn a profit. DjP really likes feeling like his imaginary best friend is the almighty and that he's in the eternal cool kids club (cuz hell is really hot).

[@user-lb8qx8yl8k]

Forrest was clearer than ever on every topic. It would take some effort to not understand what he was saying. But Gramps fought hard to cling to his worldview!!

[@pash_4904]

Gramps is one of those nice people who's brains are just soup. And this soup brain can make a monster out of nice people.

[@pash_4904]

oh my god he's just my dad minus the charisma.

[@steveOCalley]

There were several shockers of the social history of the Holocaust. One was that nice, apparently well-adjusted people could commit atrocities with the proper belief foundations and only minor character blemishes.

[@Thunderclap117]

@@pash_4904 oh my gosh do we have the same dad? 🤣

[@pash_4904]

@@Thunderclap117 the examples gramps gives and the framing he provides is like word for word the shit my father said to me during our discussions, it’s WILD. My father is a pastor, so he has a better time navigating conversations because of his oration skills.

[@jmike2039]

I think this is spot on

[@thawsomepancakes3615]

Hey Forrest, I just want to thank you for everything you've done on this channel! You really increased my passion for science, and I've learned a lot from your videos, and more importantly enjoyed them.

[@Tommy_Stewart]

“Alexa, show me an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object.” Spectacular example of someone being so eager to teach while the other is so eager to not learn.

[@Gildedmuse]

It's weird because as a teacher you get excited at the prospect of possibly really making even the tiniest break through, but realistically you know that their believes are based in dogma and you can't penetrate that shield.

[@Robbiepaintstoo]

Thank you Forrest for fidgeting during the silent pauses so I knew Gramps wasn’t frozen.

[@tylarjackson7928]

That last one a couple minutes before the end was 25 seconds. Jesus that was so awkward. It literally made me physically clinch.

[@tylerwest719]

Lol. I started checking my WiFi. Thought there was an outage.

[@itsmedjoom987]

His eyes just have nothing behind them like, it honestly made my skin crawl at times whenever he would stare blankly.

[@tylerwest719]

@@itsmedjoom987 That was just his brain short circuiting from the cognitive dissonance.

[@John.0z]

@@tylerwest719 When Forrest pointed out that Donald would not accept the things he holds as true for any other subject, based only on what he accepts for his god, you can see that there is _something_ going on in Donald's brain; but what results is not a direct response. Yes, I have to agree that internal conflict and cognitive dissonance is the most likely explanation. He _really_ wants his god to be the answer to everything.

[@michaelheister8423]

Forrest is amazing. This guy.....offered nothing to this conversation.

[@blew319]

I don’t think he was meant to be offering anything. However, I sincerely hope I have the patience he has teaching evolution with teaching mathematics. I like to think I’m a pretty patient dude, but I feel becoming a teacher will be a major test to that.

[@paulyoung5641]

I was losing my patience as an audience member, it was like watching someone talk to a brick wall. It was amazing to watch this religious man exhibit the inner workings of his own suffering from years of brainwashing in real time. It wouldn’t matter how well evolution was explained to him because his mind has been molded to specifically reject anything that comes close to contradicting creationist ideology. It doesn’t even have to contradict it, it just has to be any other explanation for life that isn’t god.

[@benjaminbeard3736]

He offered resting confused face.

[@anthonydelgiudice3245]

I said the same type of comment I get No likes 😂

[@ronrolfsen3977]

The guy was apparently asked by God himself to speak out against evolution. However he has not bothered at all to learn what evolution is. If a God would have asked me that question, I would sure as hell make sure I knew what I was talking about.

[@neils9630]

When he talked about how annoying flat earthers are, i wonder if he realised that he is the flat earther in this discussion.

[@cosmicchaos3013]

Your ability to maintain not only your composure but to keep the conversation light hearted and positive, after hearing some of the most mind bogglingly dumb things I’ve ever heard is extraordinarily commendable. You sir are truly heroic.

[@brianblakley2535]

This guy is either incredibly dense or dishonest. I wouldn’t have the patience to try and teach him. Kudos to Forrest for trying.

[@bjornfeuerbacher5514]

I go with incredibly dense. Hanlon's razor.

[@ziggy4thefacts441]

I'll go with purposely dense. To actually learn the source material would ruin his world view and he couldn't let that happen.

[@repelsteeltje90]

Yes, I admire Forrests patience as well. And his civility. I was too frustrated to even watch a third of the video. I think this guy was both dense AND dishonest.

[@rebekkavandenbrink8273]

Exactly.... it's excruciating to watch this guy...

[@johnatspray]

I think both. Creationists usually are a combo.

[@astinscience]

Forrest is an extremely conscientious debater. He’s not trying to “win”, but rather trying to make sure that everyone’s points are elucidated clearly. I personally find it to be a very worthy model for discussion, and one I’m not personally always good at, and I’m a teacher. I aspire to be better at it with my students, but I know at times I’ve been more dismissive than I should be. Thanks for keeping up the good work Forrest. You foster solid and respectful conversations between people with different viewpoints, and that’s not the easiest thing to do. Respect.

[@TomCantDance]

He's a prime example of an amazing teacher

[@jamierichardson7683]

​@@TomCantDanceRetired teacher here to agree with you.

[@Fade2GrayOG]

Yep. That's a big part of what I respect about Forrest. He has the heart of a teacher.

[@globalcoupledances]

2:25 simple: worms already have a circulatory system. No brains needed, and no lungs needed

[@ImAmirus]

23:47 also simple: One southeast asian red junglefowl most likely laid a chicken egg one day.

[@TalosCreepypasta]

As someone who was raised to believe what gramps believes-and held onto it into it into young adulthood- and now would side with Forrest, I really have to applaud how well reasoned and respectful he was here. Well done, man!

[@ernesthastie-gg7kn]

If when we die us so called good people go to heaven where we're we before we were born we have no idea so there for the soul must have been added when we were conceived but we know we are just matter

[@rockmusicvideoreviewer896]

@@ernesthastie-gg7kn we we're where we we're we we

[@hectorn]

A perfect illustration of how dogma not only makes people look stupid but how they have to be dishonest to others and to themselves in order to keep their beliefs

[@spoon1265]

His thinking was perfectly demonstrated when forrest asked him to explain literally one thing that he would apply his standards to, and he had no answer.

[@spoon1265]

No I take that back, he said "nothing"

[@japhyriddle]

The irony of Gramps pulling out the “You weren’t there” and “That’s just someone’s testimony”.

[@Theproclaimed]

Hypocrisy would be a more apt word

[@Purdz_]

It’s even more funny when you realize they say that as a sarcastic comeback bc they hear it all the time without realizing how it just doesn’t apply the same whatsoever

[@repelsteeltje90]

Did hypocrisy start as an attribute of religions or did it naturally evolve in social species?

[@Arexion5293]

@@repelsteeltje90 Latter definitely. Religions started off as a way to bring people together, to form societies, so the social nature and numerous aspects of it already existed.

[@Purdz_]

@@repelsteeltje90 I’m sure it came about on its own

[@zachariousoftroy]

This is actually a great learning tool for politely explaining the details of evolution to someone who knows absolutely nothing about it

[@cesarleon9894]

Gramps has conflated evolution with the existence of God. He made it an either-or and mutually exclusive situation in such a way that accepting evolution will imply the non-existing (or non-believing) of God.

[@thuzUNed]

Unfortunately, it's also a great example of why doing so with an Apologist is an immense waste of time.

[@mirandahotspring4019]

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say someone who wants to know absolutely nothing about it.

[@bactrosaurus]

​@@thuzUNed not a waste of time for us viewers

[@bfderycke]

@@bactrosaurus you are right. I enjoyed and learned some new things

[@zpd8003]

I think he realizes that he met his match in Forrest, you could see it on his face! 🤣 He was out of his depth in this discussion, but he deserved credit for agreeing to be slapped around by someone who knows what they're talking about. This was beautiful!

[@jonathanyoung8109]

Met his match? These two people aren’t even close to being on the same level.

[@SaintD382]

He probably wasn't aware he was being slapped around. He probably thought "God put me here for a reason, and His will is being done" or some nonsense like that. Praying instead of listening (hence the long silent pauses).

[@ByrdieFae]

Forrest, the thing that I love about you is that you are quick to latch onto what you have in common with people INCREDIBLY different from you. It's so admirable.

[@EMDS04]

I agree

[@juliebeaudoin5866]

And totally sincere about it to boot!! He’s always gracious, even in intensely frustrating situations. Forrest, you’re a classy guy 🫡

[@sergei_mikhailovich]

That and his seemingly infinite patience makes him my favorite atheist and science educator.

[@Toasty5386]

I think it’s really important for fixing divides and reducing confrontations. Find middle ground with people, find where you agree and disagree and find where and how each person has veered off. Each person may still think the other is wrong, but communication is important and we can be more empathetic to someone we disagree with if we understand how they got there. We can also potentially fix the causes of issues if we can identify them and we can’t always identify them from the outside.

[@Quemusicproductions]

I enjoy the Forrest Style and the Matt style.

[@jvh4438]

7:04 Harry potter and the sexual revolution😂

[@eliascampbell9281]

The long awated sequel

[@maj1061]

Harry Potter being part of the occult, I’m dying

[@jameshall1300]

​@@maj1061 I hope that was supposed to be dying, intead of drying 😂. My mental image when I read it was pretty hilarious though.

[@heavypizza]

one of the best christian worship bands....

[@Jenna_Miles]

Fanfic tbh 🤣🤣

[@BirthquakeRecords]

Incredulity is not a debunk, Gramps. Forrest, you handled yourself very well, and you're very kind and informative and knowledgeable. I'm genuinely impressed by how gracefully you handled this surely very frustrating and difficult dialogue.

[@knowgods]

Forrest, you are a wonderful educator. Keep it up

[@BallotBoxBoogeyMan]

Ok. This video so far is damn near bringing me to tears. 3 years ago I took my first biology class as a 36 year old who had recently escaped YEC. I remember saying all of the same things he said. Full of incredulity, but nowhere to find answers. I didn’t have a Forrest back then. Thank you Forrest! Thank you for sharing this beautiful knowledge!

[@betadecay6503]

It's people like you that give me hope but also increase my frustration with theists. If you can escape indoctrination, they have no excuse. If you're fully immersed in that world then I don't expect anyone to escape but when the internet and all of human knowledge is at your fingertips the only explanations for continued belief are wilful ignorance or stupidity. There is just no excuse in the modern day for accepting fairy tales.

[@Gildedmuse]

​@@betadecay6503Dude, people still enter into abusive relationships, they still end up in dire situations with no way out, all because since birth it's all they've known and all they've been taught. Yes, some people escape that mindset, but typically something had to really kick them to take that action. I would implore you too read testimony from those who have escaped extreme religious sects. They all talk about just how deep the brainwashing goes, and they do call it brainwashing. It may not be AS controlled in most Christian sects, but you can cen see echoes of that even in your more moderate religions.

[@jimmyh6601]

Good for you in getting yourself out of YEC🎉

[@roberttaylor2109]

You're only 3 years into biology but can I recommend this to you: kzbin.info/aero/PL848F2368C90DDC3D&si=LTr6KioIG_631puj

[@roberttaylor2109]

A wonderful communicator going through a brief history of human biology and behaviour

[@DefaOmega]

While this video was one of the most frustrating things I've ever been through, Forrest was insanely patient and very clear. Fantastic video and I'm genuinely glad you did this!

[@2l84me8]

It’s a bit sad how he simply rejects what Forrest says simply because he wants to believe in his god.

[@rjoelbrown78]

Forrest explains the evolutionary steps of the eye. Gramps response is "But how did sight come about?"....Just absolutely brilliant unintentional comedy.

[@rjoelbrown78]

The more I watch, the worse it gets. This man is Dunning Kruger personified.

[@EssayChaiTea]

"but why male models?"

[@awesome_by_default]

I honestly couldn't keep watching after that. He's clearly not paying attention and isn't at all listening to Forrest.

[@ghintz2156]

​@@rjoelbrown78 see, the awareness of ignorance is the key factor here. If I dared to contradict Forrest on his area of expertise, I'd be aware that I can't ever out-reason him on this topic. If I debated art or literature with him, Forrest would probably agree that he's ignorant of those topics. We can only learn if we face our own ignorance and acknowledge an expert when they speak.

[@TrXvjs1694]

Hats off Forrest. I couldn’t keep my cool as well as you did. But Gramps did inspire me to pray. That I never see him on screen again.

[@yashsingh6508]

“The best part about being a scientist is being wrong, because it means you learn a new thing.” Love this ❤

[@Corwinpop]

This is exactly what I try to teach my kids and now my grandkids.

[@peraspera934]

Yep! It's the whole point of the scientific process! I want to know which of my assumptions are false and, by extension, find what's true!

[@aennaenn7468]

Yes! As a scientist, I love that the whole process involves people trying to prove me wrong, please, tear my work to pieces, or try and fail. Either way it's exhilarating! Either I teach you something or you teach me.

[@yashsingh6508]

@@aennaenn7468 Love that mindset!

[@SuperManning11]

I love the long pauses…. Who knows what Donald is thinking during those times-he has a pretty smug look on his face, especially compared to the delight and joy in Forrest’s eyes when he is in conversation with someone who thinks differently than he does.

[@trigfanorthwales]

Who knows IF Donald is thinking?

[@ShawnNac]

He isn't thinking he's listening to crickets!

[@SuperManning11]

@@ShawnNache really does look like the lights are on but nobody’s home. He keeps asking the very same questions that Forrest answers over and over. I think he has some really big chunks of the picture that he flat out does not understand, and he has filled those gaps in with God for so long that it becomes almost impossible to see anything else.

[@mikaylathrone2292]

Forrest is literally the only person I can think of who could have a conversation with someone like this and be a class act the entire time. Cheers to you!

[@aaronlarsen9586]

I think maybe Gutsick (Erika) could have. Those two, their patience and professionalism in these discussions and debates really move the needle forward.

[@matthewmyatt5698]

Yeah, as much as i appreciate him, Matt Dillahunty, would not have been nearly this kind.

[@KarenYurek]

"Harry Potter and the Sexual Revolution"... I think I missed that book.

[@BIayne]

*fetus delutus!* 🪄✨

[@Jvenoia]

He defeats it, once and for all

[@bradh6980]

It's on Wattpad.

[@andreywonttell4016]

It's a book about Harry using his other "wand". =)

[@IsThereLifeOnMars1971]

@@BIayne youtube asked if I wanted to translate this to English and apparently it translates to "The fetus washed away!".

[@stringtheories9820]

DJP: Explain how we got from one-celled organisms to us Forrest: Ok, no problem Me: **takes notes because I went to school in Texas**

[@gsp3428]

Forrest, I dont really know, but I will tell you I know because I went to college, and I am a biologist.

[@betadecay6503]

​@@gsp3428huh?

[@TheWuschi]

@@gsp3428 gsp3428: I don't know shit about anything, but I am a Troll, so I keep Trolling, since that's what a Troll does, hurr durr durr... Git outta here, man!

[@-Ravenscroft-]

I cackled

[@Gildedmuse]

​@@gsp3428When did he say that instead of simply giving a disclaimer that science is always changing and advancing?

[@J624]

1:29:44 Donald, (Talking about science in general through the analogy of a murder trial): "The evidence is based upon...witnesses; how do you know they're telling the truth?" What a *perfect* question to ask religious folk. Your entire faith is based upon witnesses; how do you know they're telling the truth? Man, the mental gymnastics of these people to criticize science (inaccurately) for exactly the things that religious doctrine does, and pretend that they don't do it.

[@hubguy]

Problem is they think the two are diametrically opposed in every facet. Science and those who engage in scientific endeavors entirely involve observation and tangible testing while religion and faith have the massive crutch of, well, faith. If they think there’s even one thing off about something scientific, they can dismantle the whole thing in their minds because that airtight theory isn’t so airtight anymore to them. Religion on the other hand if there’s holes in those beliefs they can fall back on “we just need to have faith” and not questioning God who is out of our control and comprehension and is given leeway to do/have things in a way that doesn’t make sense to us And they don’t get science is an iterative process. As we learn more we improve and build on those ideas. It’s not the gotcha they think it is if something is wrong. They can go back to it and see where they need to adjust things

[@secularidiot9052]

(That’s called projection)

[@jameshall1300]

Projection is the primary superpower of the religious zealot, followed very closely by unjustified confidence in their own position.

[@Dr_Wrong]

Because God never lies. Some ancient people said so. Case closed.

[@rhondah1587]

But, but his god speaks to him in an inaudible voice in his head, ergo his god has to exist. LMAO Funny that voice probably tells him what he wants to hear, right?

[@BUGS9000]

I kinda wanted to scream when he said he didnt know what epigenetics is. Not shaming someone for ignorance, but this man was confident enough to make a whole movie and book about evolution.

[@SPL0869]

I said the same thing.

[@shihsntz5301]

Judging from his responses I'm guessing his research for his book consisted of listening to apologists and nothing else.

[@loneprimate]

"I'm fine with microevolution..." is exactly like saying "I believe rain can make a puddle but it could never make an ocean. Only God could make an ocean."

[@WernerKerschbaumer]

You can see Gramps’s brain checking out when Forest explains evolution. I’m embarrassed FOR gramps.

[@repelsteeltje90]

Gramps looks like the guy in the meeting who hasn't read a single meeting note and tries to hide that with BS, thinking the others don't see right through it. Embarrassing indeed.

[@baddogma]

Gramps is Homer Simpson with a monkey clapping symbols in his head. Remarkably unintelligent.

[@teconomix]

Forrest, I just want to thank you for your incredible work. You kindness, patience and genuine joy for science is so contagious and hopefully creates bridges for people that have not yet found access to scientific thinking. You are doing some very important work and I am happy to support your channel.

[@yashsingh6508]

Absolutely second this!

[@carlosricardoperaltamunoz3536]

That analogy of plumbers disappearing and relearning the techniques of plumbing is excellent to explain convergent evolution in my opinion!!!

[@TeekeyGG]

The discussion about flat earthers was hilarious. He's SO close to self-awareness, but just can't make the leap that make HE is being the "flat earther" for issues like evolution.

[@MackNJeeves]

I love the look on Forrest's face when DJP starts talking about "the heart and the lungs and etc." I can just hear his inner monologue screaming "Yes! This is a great question! Lets explore it because the answer is so cool!" haha. Definitely the sign of a great educator, and one of the reasons I love his videos!

[@ehthrough]

New movie title, "Gramps gets schooled".

[@John.0z]

I do not gamble, but in this occasion I will bet that is *not* his next movie title, or plot. Another comment suggested that the next one will have an emasculated Forrest massively misrepresented as the "evil evolutionist". IMHO that is a more likely outcome.

[@jo-ln8oo]

Or- gramps has no idea wtf he's talking about

[@noodle_tax]

😂😂

[@FriendlyFare]

My gramps (nothing like this guy) would always tell me; "a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still". For a fellow born in 1901, he was pretty damn progressive and when I watch Forrest's videos, I am reminded of his kindness and patience. He was a great teacher and a man of science and was a profoundly positive influence in my life. I can say confidently that I would not be surprised if in a few decades, you have generations of folks who wax appreciatively in the same way about Mr. Valkai. This video is a masterclass on civil discourse and epistemological dialogue without rancour or ad hominem attacks.

[@dumdristig]

When he said "perfection," that would have been a perfect opportunity to point out that our current design is far from perfect. Which flips his argument on its head.

[@heatherdorrell]

Human immune systems have entered the chat.

[@Anarchist_Angel]

@@heatherdorrellAppendix: "Let me introduce myself and ruin your day."

[@TheLowBrassDude]

The perfection argument can be refuted simply by the fact that eyeglasses are a thing.

[@colinwitte5665]

@@Anarchist_Angel That thing actually has a use: it stores bacteria, to stabilize the intestinal flora

[@brandonsmith9512]

Yeah I can totally see why Forrest didn't go there and was preoccupied with other thoughts. But I was screaming in my head, we're so not perfect. And I've seen Forrest and Matt rattle off lists of imperfections in the human anatomy before and was so ready to hear it there.

[@peterharris8471]

He doesn't even understand how you can get a dog from a wolf? This guy has an elementary school level of understanding. Their backgrounds say everything, gramps has a cross where all his books should be.

[@crooked9210]

For a man who complained about how people don't read anymore, it doesn't seem like he's picked up any book other than a bible

[@murph8411]

Donald also thinks that things are trying to evolve towards perfection. That a dinosaur sat and wished it could fly and tried to evolve wings is the evolutionary world view. It seems crazy that he says Donald was a teacher and that he studied evolution before writing his book about it. I hope it was computing he was teaching and not anything to do with science or general education. Donald even seemed to look vacant when Forrest mentioned allotropes of carbon.

[@itsmedjoom987]

@@murph8411the perfection thing is fucking stupid. How do we know we’re partly perfection or that he thinks evolution is evolving to perfection? What is perfection? He doesn’t even know what perfection is because going by their thought they can never truly know gods purpose and reasons so how can they identify “his perfection”?

[@christopherbelanger6612]

@@murph8411 Yeah, evolution has no aim. Also, biology is far from perfect. When he talks about how amazing everything around us is, I agree... but also disagree. It's amazing that it all works as well as it does. But it also fails A LOT at what it's trying to do.

[@JoyRBradford]

Great observation 😅! Gramps has made willful ignorance an art form!

[@odinson8761]

Donald comes off as incredulous. It sounded to my ear that he said, no matter what you say I won't believe you. I applaud you, Forrest. I would not have the patience to talk to this man that long.

[@ChokeArtist411]

Yeah Donald was never gonna hear a word Forrest said, other than “I believe in Jesus now”.

[@odinson8761]

I wish I could understand that mind set. I was raised Catholic, and it just never made sense to me. How do you believe something just because someone says it's true.

[@gsp3428]

Kind of like Forrest with God.

[@davidjaques9354]

@@gsp3428 you are lying. forrest plainly says multiple times he is open to evidence, and willing to change his mind. donald says the opposite, he doesn't want to change his mind. does god like it when you lie for him?

[@Toner_Cartirdge]

What a disshonest dude, holy moly forest is such a nice guy. This conversation was crazy frustrating, but i admire forest for how he presents his ideas.

[@lrgload3547]

I feel like there’s a special little accumulation of traits here (well spoken, patient, relevant science education, passion, humility, willingness to challenge bluntly but the ability to do it without being abrasive, stellar hair, etc.) that can really really do a whole lot in this world. Forrest, you’re doing humanity a massive favor not only by stoking healthy thought processes, but also encouraging these hard discussions in pleasant yet productive ways. Just wanted to share my appreciation as a former Tulsa resident that spent a few years at Metro Christian. Keep up the good work🫡

[@marlip3978]

The amazing hair is just the cherry on top

[@slotkarter77]

"Harry Potter & the Sexual Revolution" was the name of my cover band.

[@charlesrichmond2808]

He has a ton of really great questions that have some of the most wonderfully fascinating answers, but he just can't allow himself to step over the threshold of the house of faith that he's built around himself throughout his life. I truly feel a deep pang of sorrow for this man.

[@blinkbubs3994]

right, you can see in his face that hes paying attention to Forrest's explanations, but once its his turn to give his thoughts, you can see on Donald's face that he's looking for something to confirm what he already thinks

[@tacticalteager7920]

This guy listens with the intent to reply and NOT the intent to understand. Forrest is an amazing example of patience.

[@mactallica9293]

I think after the first few questions, Forrest knew this video was going to be a gold mine

[@DaveCM]

Forest spends several minutes answering his question then then the dude says, "you didn't answer my question."

[@gerritvalkering1068]

I think what he meant was 'you have only told me the general process, not the specific steps'. Which doesn't make it any better

[@susanrobertson984]

Or it means Donald just doesn’t understand anything. He is not super smart.

[@RePlayQ]

@@gerritvalkering1068right I mean… we have two hours. Evolutionary biology is a masters degree which takes 6 years to get. Forrest fast forwarded past the syllabus and did like lectures 1-10 in 2 hours

[@gerritvalkering1068]

@@RePlayQ Well, yeah. Like I said, it doesn't make the situation any better

[@firmbutton6485]

He would have been happier if Forest said “it’s magic!”

[@DemmyDemon]

I would have rage quit that conversation with some very unkind words. Thank you for staying calm, Forrest. Impressive, and an inspiration to manage my anger better.

[@WascalsPager]

And Gramps is so confident! You don't get to make up an answer to a question, say that your answer is correct, THEN reference your answer to validate your answer!

[@unknownuser6940]

Circular reasoning. A poison that Christianity generally hails as a cure, alongside the poison called blind trust masked as "faith."

[@wintergray1221]

They use a book to justify the existence of a character _in that same book!_

[@SylvanApe]

Spiderman?@@wintergray1221

[@vez3834]

​@@wintergray1221 Harry Potter books confirm that the fictional universe is real. Harry Potter books are real, I can see them... so what they say is the truth.

[@wintergray1221]

@@vez3834 Wouldn't surprise me if the next isekai novel is "That Time I Got Reincarnated into a Crapsaccharine Wizarding World Wrote By a Bigot" 🤣

[@pdxjprice]

I don’t know how you have the patience, dude. You’re such a fantastic teacher.

[@Buzzcook]

I feel so sorry for Donald. He is just not equipt to defend his position or to admit that his position is flawed.

[@miclagace]

I think it may be an unfortunate combination of pride and fear of mortality.

[@betadecay6503]

​@@miclagaceit's wilful ignorance

[@sryberg16]

1:22:28 Donald: “If that were there the case there would be a multitude of fossils left behind that would show the transitions” Donald doesn’t realize this, but he’s using the scientific method and offering a hypothesis. Thankfully, the results have already been found, and Forrest informs him that we do find these transitions! And thus Donald has successfully provided a great argument towards the theory of evolution

[@kentucyfriedme]

I watched this entire freaking video, all 2 and a half hours, and the number of times I wanted to yell at the screen and would NOT have kept my composure as well as Forrest does is.. immense.

[@jamesfetherston1190]

If saints were real, I’d say Forrest has the patience of one.

[@hc4138]

It literally was a 2 hour biology lesson 😂 this would be useful in educational settings haha

[@ahaangrygem]

Aw the excitement in your voice and manner when he expressed that he hadnt heard of some of the concepts you were talking about was just lovely. Seeing people like you who are so excited to feed others curiosity is so inspiring. Thanks for what you do! It's really great and i absolutely love your attitude

[@SideKickStudios]

Oh boy, that felt like a rocket scientist explaining rocket science to a toddler: Scinetist: "A rocket flies because of controlled combustion directed against the force of gravity" Toddler: "Oh-kay mister, bwut why wocket go boom and uwp?"

[@meinenklinke]

Mean, but incredibly accurate. 😂

[@WaysToHuman]

Accurate!

[@chekhov-and-his-gun]

On top of that, the toddler is in denial of the existence of Rockets and continually fighting every single statement

[@SaintD382]

Religion turns adults into toddlers.

[@hunterhall1575]

This isnt me being memetic or joking at all, but Forrest is a fucking Jedi. Like, Luke Skywalker Jedi Master. The way he can remain friendly and coax his interlocutor into more productive conversation, whilst still slamming him with "Facts and Logic" (*Patent Pending: B. SHAPIRO*)

[@Dr_Wrong]

You mean far away and long dead but still glowy?

[@hunterhall1575]

@@Dr_Wrong #NotMyLuke lol

[@Dr_Wrong]

@@hunterhall1575 My Luke died the day Disney signed the check to Lucas..

[@hunterhall1575]

@@Dr_Wrong well, technically he died 1.232 movies after 😅

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

Well, um, actually, hypothetically, let's just say

[@scrundy541]

You did an incredible job, Forrest. Truly impressive. Grampa was also there.

[@thesingerintheshower]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@DarkFire0421]

This is exactly why I get so frustrated debating theist ( primarily christians since that's what's around me the most ) they already come into the argument deeply offended even if they don't try to be. And it causes them to hear what they want to hear and or simply wait for their turn to talk without actually processing anything you said prior. Forrest, you make so many amazing points in every one of your debates that make me a better athiest and even a better human being in general. You might not be reaching the person you're debating but to the viewers back at home. It truly helps more than you could ever know .