I Secretly Recorded the Elders Admonishing Me

[@altworldly]

The aspect ratio is weird for some reason! So just imagine it looking normal, with your imagination.

[@FelixVW]

I'm just happy to never have been, nor be, nor will be a JW. If you ask why I'm here: I lost a very close friend to the JW a couple of time ago. And I do counselling on a honorary basis for people in need. I can recognize structures when I see them.

[@FelixVW]

@@vusimngomezulu2500 You guys don't accept the trinity. And no, we should be Jesus' Witnesses, not "Jehova"'s. You're ripping those verses out of their original context. Nothing new here. You don't even believe Jesus to be God's son - you make him the Archangel Micheal - no biblical evidence for that whatsoever.

[@HenriettaMRiley]

@@vusimngomezulu2500 Jehovahs Witnesses have been stopped.....long time ago.. 5.5 million Witnesses and dropping like a stone. Watchtower is dead. Show me the word Governing Body in the bible and ill show you Trinity....quite easily.

[@HenriettaMRiley]

@@vusimngomezulu2500 Watchtower is dead in the water mate, there preaching is a joke and they have be found apostate. They are but an Arian heresy,. Rev 18:4-6 You still havent found the word Governing Body in the scripture.... Still waiting.

[@manuellupea1407]

KZbin did recommend you channel sort of randomly...

[@lt5314]

You were coherent and quick with the correct and true comments. They didn’t have answers. I’m sure they knew you were right. Every judicial meeting people record sound the same. The elders haven’t a clue and come back with the same old tired phrases. You did well!

[@hustonmices3976]

They say that the mosaic law does not apply to us but they sure love to reference it all the time.

[@FirsteMann1929]

Yes they do, they act more like the ancient Israelites than the 1st century Christians

[@amandahuginkiss4098]

Yes. They quote a scripture against tattoos cause it shows "God's thinking" on the matter and the preceding verse says not to shave your beard. One scripture applies to modern day and the one beside it doesn't. WT has a policy first and then they finds a scripture to support it. ( Lev 19: 27-28)

[@jimmchemings6140]

All of the time !

[@nesbo7578]

It’s so frustrating to listen to. They rarely answer your questions, just skirt around them and push a question onto you. You’re so calm and meet their points very well 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@BJBFOREST]

+ Nesbo. He was dead man walking when he walked into the room...the hearing is just theatre.

[@nesbo7578]

@@BJBFOREST I know that - but just as JWs say that they can plant a seed, so can we. Those them didn't particularly sound like they were out to get him, but rather the game is rigged and they are unknowingly being pawns. Jake made logical, coherent points that couldn't be argued against. If I was ever in that situation, it's how I dream I'd be...

[@BJBFOREST]

@@nesbo7578 Yes...Jake was articulate and rationale. The responses he made were dismissed and they immediately went to further scripture. ...probably already pencilled in as to go to points as a result of other conversations prior to the hearing. The JW judicial members had been briefed and the conclusion preordained... There was never going to be a result other than disfellowshipped. Jake did go down with the ship firing his guns as....good effort.

[@ericmichalowski9582]

Why talk to these idiots don't throw your pearls before swine 😅

[@kayb6803]

I'm shaking my head in a amazement. That was the most logical, clear and straight forward argument that I have ever heard. At first, I thought they were pretty decent to you and I wondered if the reason was because you had such a good relationship with them. But, I also think that most of what you said was irrefutable! After your rebuttal, it's almost like you could hear them grasping for straws and momentarily they had nothing until they made up something. And that something was random scripture that didn't really address the topic at hand. They were on a hamster wheel and didn't know how to get off to make any statement that came close to refuting what you said. Well done.

[@excultkid2340]

EXACTLY! When Jake quoted the Awake! article that said no one should have to worship in a way they find unacceptable or be forced to choose between religion and family, I was like, "that's a mic drop moment right there! How can anyone refute this when it's in their own literature!" And the answer is: you can't, but if you want to believe in something bad enough you just shut off and willfully refuse to understand the point. I swear that I could hear in their voices when the tumblers to the locks in their brains were engaging when they needed to shut off their personal reasoning to grasp as the hypocritical JW doctrines and try to justify them. Yes, everyone should be able to choose to worship in the way they want. You made that decision at 14, 11, 9, whatever have you and no takesie-backsies. This whole freaking thing just makes me want to scream.

[@Rwdogg21]

@@excultkid2340 that's only applicable to someone wanting to become a witness and leaving their old religion, not vice versa

[@heathergriggs4463]

Such great reasoning! I love how you turned the marriage/baptism example back around on them. I'll try and use some of these points (if I have to) when I have my "admonition" meeting.

[@jennybloom9107]

"I just have like, resting jerk voice." I died hahaha. You did such a good job. So much more patient than I know I could be. My eyes glazed over any time the elders spoke. 😬

[@jessicaa.6690]

Everytime the elders don't know how to respond without revealing their hypocrisy, they say, "Let me ask you this," then ask an unrelated question. Way to change the subject! (Sarc)

[@Marlodrama]

Oh geez every time i hear them do that now its soo satisfying. Its like they’re shutting down and rebooting 😭

[@andracadicecrawford4256]

That dude knows exaaaactly what you are saying is totally facts!!!!

[@omni-]

You were arguing so clearly and respectfully. Amazing to listen to. Good job man!!

[@IKARIANOFFICIAL]

I just finished watching your long "Judicial Committee" meeting video. Near the end, about your parents and grandparents legacy as JW's and such, please don't think about "letting anyone down"! Looking at the facts here, YOU are the first one in your family who was BRAVE ENOUGH to stand up for what is correct regarding the Watchtower organization and its shunning policies! Your parents and family may not be proud of you, but for what it's worth as a stranger I'm extremely proud of you! Stay strong through the hard times and please reach out to other like minded people for encouragement when it gets tough to deal with emotionally. People like you are more valuable to this world than you can imagine.

[@ninaschust3694]

I love the view of Einar Selvik who said about heritage that you are not obliged to continue their ways if they do harm. ❤

[@ChristineRossi-rc7xl]

Most definitely your finest hour.

[@Shami.Hopeful.Lady777]

He said servants of Jehovah's "ORGANIZATION!" I though we were servants of Jehovah or the Almighty God not an "Organization" See this has gone crazy.

[@FirsteMann1929]

Unknowingly and subtly they are under a spirit of deception. They can't see the line between God and the organization. Essentially the organization has become their god

[@Shami.Hopeful.Lady777]

@@FirsteMann1929 Absolutely correct!

[@gwenjackson8583]

@@FirsteMann1929 beautifully put! And that is exactly what we are warned against by Jesus. “No one comes to the Father except through me.” The Organization has become identical to the Pharisees, laying burdens on God’s people and adding to God’s word. They even seem to bypass Jesus altogether, barely mentioning Him in their talks and literature.

[@bc52023]

The comedy here is priceless. Elder @ 18:28: "The Mosaic law's not applicable". Yet witnesses don't take blood or get tattoos because it's part of the Mosaic law.

[@andracadicecrawford4256]

It kills me how they deflect from answering your direct questions....with other questions that has nothing to do with the questions you ask them!

[@minniemeowmix2934]

Every time they answer you it's so obvious they are referring to their scripts. No critical thinking whatsoever. Very sad you had to deal with this but you nailed it.

[@jwallaby7895]

Once again, you held your ground very well. Would love to hear the entire video. You also made an eloquent point about how troubling it is to leave when doctrines change. In his heart, you can tell that the primary elder who speaks to you can't say anything about it. He moves on to other "major beliefs" that you also took exception with. But I fully agree with that observation you made about the "faithful and discreet slave." The FDS was not what it is today when I was baptized. The governing body to me were just respectable anointed men at bethel who took a role in the oversight of the organization. They were overseers in my opinion but just on the large scale. I DID NOT sign up to be a JW thinking that 8 men EXCLUSIVELY spoke for Jehovah as his mouthpiece. I would never have got baptized if I was supposed to accept that they alone determined what I should and shouldn't believe from the Bible. I was always hoping that Jehovah himself was in charge of that. The truth is such a disappointment.

[@mattmurdock2868]

The good news is that watchtower's jehovah is not the God of the Bible. Only false god of watchtower. Jesus Christ is LORD, and He reigns on high.

[@M-n-K]

excellent point, totally agree with you

[@Rupunzelsawake]

You did amazingly well. I don't know how you could keep so calm and your arguments so well ordered and logical. And yet you were kind, empathetic and very, very sincere . These guys could see your points and it probably frustrated them not finding something to nail you on. Maybe that's why they pushed the homosexuality thing. At the end of the day, it came down to a cold contractual obligation. "You said this at your baptism and now you say this so now we can justifiably df and shun you" ..I think this is how elders are trained to think and to view even their own questioning. They made vows to the organisation to serve as elders. Those vows come before everything else...including love and mercy...and reason. They too are backed into a corner with threats to their family life and reputation if they dare not follow through on the GBs dictates. It's very sad listening to these men. I wish they'd grow a pair. Anyway, that was incredible Jake..I had tears in my eyes listening. I hope you are doing much better now healthwise. Xxx

[@JotimThingadane-eq3dt]

This guy is a genius and answered with resounding ghists and abashed the JW elders with tact and poise. I connect 100percent with this guy coz I chose to leave the Jehovah's witnesses organization in 2007 coz of this heinous doctrine and my sisters were told by their elders never to associate with me in any way. With former friends, ex brothers and sisters in the congregation it was very easy to break our bond, but with my sisters for last 16yrs it has been hard for them to disasociate with me coz we are a family and our paths mutually cross many times and they have been incensantly persuading me to rejoin with my wife and my daughter for the sake of the family reunion. But I have found it incompatible to rejoin coz I have no regrets over the decision I made 16yrs ago and even up to my resolve to disassociate myself from this prejudiced organization with it's cherry picking doctrine is stronger than ever. I would love to reconnect with my sisters but it shouldn't be (conditional) based on me rejoining the denomination I don't feel attached to at all coz I don't like to be feign but aunthentic enough. I have learnt a copious ghists from this shrewd courageous gentleman

[@runawayslave1087]

"I'm gonna put out a stone tablet every month and you gotta believe whatevers on it" 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂 so good I'm deceased 💀

[@ZoeBellCake]

@47:53 And there it is. "Now you're questioning." And that's what's not allowed when it comes down to it, no matter your level in the organization.

[@gwenjackson8583]

The point you made regarding Jesus bringing a simple message that the witnesses over complicate was brilliant. When I first read the Gospel after I left the JW religion, I was overcome with how loving and forgiving the message of Jesus really was…at least now that it wasn’t being interpreted through a JW lens. When I think about LGBT people in relation to Christianity, my thought is that Jesus said that the greatest commandment was LOVE. My interpretation of that was that as long as we are applying the principle of love in our lives and interactions, there is no sin. Sin is basically the absence of love in our behavior.

[@cubonefan3]

They build up a community around you, isolate you within it, and then threaten to take it away when you no longer agree with their demands.

[@Sportliveonline]

Apotheosis is the glorification of a subject to divine level and most commonly, the treatment of a human like a god. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology, apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.

[@kathleenreardon8943]

He stays so calm and collected. It amazes me.

[@krissykatportal]

I love how they ask for no video or audio recording 😂 Aaaaaaand why not? Why aren’t we allowed to have any representation or any record of this super secret meeting???? What do they have to hide???

[@dcostanzino]

Isn't it illegal though to record a meeting without someone's knowledge. I am not a witness by the way. I actually agree with a lot videos on this chanel but didn't find this ethical. Didn't stop me from watching though. Lol

[@dcostanzino]

I am basically anti-organized religion and the Bible gives me anxiety. It's a very violent and judgemental.

[@elizabethstokes6576]

@@dcostanzino the legality depends on the state. As an example, for texas, since it is a one party consent state, that means that as long as I give permission, then I can record.

[@dcostanzino]

@@elizabethstokes6576 That makes no sense. Obviously the person recording is giving consent. Basically it means no consent is needed then.

[@adamcosper3308]

​@@dcostanzino It makes sense in that I can't secretly record a conversation I'm not a participant in.

[@manomiejones6787]

Commenting for the algorithm and to encourage you to keep up the great work.

[@gregelliott3556]

Yes ... The JW's cherry pick scriptures while ignoring the context to support most of their teachings and doctrines ... It's just Sad

[@gamersTV5617]

I was ex JW but I repent and return to JW again I understand you all being ex JW but try to swallow your pride dont let Satan used you!

[@krissykatportal]

Yessss I’m so excited for this. I love your perspective on this bullshit cult.

[@Cam-ir9zw]

Nicely done! Way to keep your head while speaking with these company-men.

[@Sportliveonline]

Apotheosis is the glorification of a subject to divine level and most commonly, the treatment of a human like a god. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology, apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.

[@dorangist7558]

You did do a great job rebutting all their points, way better than I could have ever done.

[@freddyray6805]

15:04 damn , the trembling voice of the Elder after listening to you read the article says it all.

[@fabulouslyfaded2507]

When they compared your baptism vow to Jehovah to your marriage vow to your wife, I would have love to ask them if they would have been behind a support your vow to your wife at 14, when your baptism was supported? JWs say that the vow to Jehovah is even more binding and important than a marriage vow, so why is it okay to make that decision as a child but marriage is spoken against and frowned upon? They put such stock into a baptism vow when someone is a kid but if you get married and your spouse “leaves Jehovah” you are supposed to stick to Jehovah over your spouse. You may not be allowed to divorce but it is encouraged to basically live a separate life and cut them out.

[@jaguillermol]

And in the bible there is no vow to Jehova. It only says "baptize them in my name", the rest was added by trinitarians

[@JanRautiainen]

Came over from Lloyd's channel after listening your conversation, very good conversation with lots of things I have experienced myself as being in same situation as you, born in it, growing up in it, and finally starting to think things over critically. Looking forward your future videos on these topics.

[@juschilln4904]

You killed me at the end 😂😂 Just telling it like it is, stone tablets, languages, amazing 👍🏾👍🏾

[@joshcapshaw266]

They were basically saying the same things over and over in different ways based upon the scripture. But, you had rebuttals to each point that they brought up that were way more logical. Well done sir. Very impressive

[@jimmchemings6140]

The baptismal question changed. When I was baptized there was no agreeing to abide by an organization! If I tried to have my baptism annulled for this reason I am certain I would be treated like a disfellowshipped person. I believe the courts need to step in and do more for people trapped in religions

[@davidburroughs2244]

Surely wasn't 'way back in the early '70s when I was in and did me no good then either when I was df'd in the early eighties - so ... they do not care. Thier always single line shifting underneath them is "do you totally agree with the way we say it is now." If you do not, you are out, and that is it.

[@checkthefacts.]

I was baptized under the old questions too. The new questions as Ray Franz put it were just to make it easier for the legal department that people had in effect contracted to an organisation.But we didn't actually do the new questions so they can't use that defence with us

[@teesee6962]

you werent trapped. you got out when you were ready. so will they.

[@geeemale3502]

Jake...I truly believe that as many elders you've met with through your journey of leaving this cult...I would say that you left most of them with food for thought. It's just a matter of time before a good many of these meatheads wake-up!

[@jimmchemings6140]

Meatheads ..Lol !

[@thetruthk5138]

I know that is extremely unlikely unfortunately. When you believe you are superior and appointed by God . One would imagine the thought has never crossed their mind...

[@back-roomconfessions6746]

Hearing you dismantle their rickety arguments is the whole mood moving forward for me!

[@bigskypioneer1898]

I am in awe of how you handled this meeting. I am extremely impressed with your example of how they claim "nuance" with one topic (slavery in the Bible) but somehow can't see nuance when it comes to gay rights vs ancient language concerning what it meant to be LGBTQ in Paul's time. If you ever study sociology and go for a Ph.D. *_THAT_* is your dissertation subject right there. Masterfully done and I thank you for showing me yet another aspect of biblical teaching that I had not considered or deconstructed yet. Too cool!! I only wish I could think on my feet as quickly as you do. It's just too bad that your audience was so busy managing their own cognitive dissonance problems they couldn't really appreciate your arguments against their indefensible position. Also... the smugness of the guy when he said at 42:07 "but they're not JW's" What he evidently couldn't understand is that the protesting Christians believe their own doctrine and version of Christianity with the same conviction and passion as the men you were talking with. How condescending can you get? Just...Damn.

[@bobg676]

So much truth in what you said around 40min. to the end. You said everything I was thinking total biblical context.

[@anonymouswhiterabbit]

👏👏👏👏 You got them with the quote about choosing worship or family. GOT THEM. I was shocked when I first read that too. Well played. They’re delusional.

[@AbelCosentino]

I appreciate your comparison regarding Moses and how he actually performed miracles, and had a freaking cloud of smoke guiding all of them… Whereas compared to current JW‘s, we don’t have any miracles except for maybe many languages… I will say that I respect that the elders listened to you and did not interrupt you. That was pretty respectful of them. In my judicial committee, the elders constantly interrupted me

[@barbaram.2994]

Again - great job. I could never hold my own like you can.

[@debsvista2281]

Wow! This and other videos I've seen just confirms for me that there's no reasoning with them. Thanks for sharing part of your journey! All the best to you as you navigate your new life.

[@Sportliveonline]

Apotheosis is the glorification of a subject to divine level and most commonly, the treatment of a human like a god. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology, apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.

[@frozentspark2105]

Saw your interview on the Lloyd Evans channel. Look forward to watching more of your videos

[@dolam]

3:20 I find it interesting that they told you there is no audio or video recording, but they never ask if you are actually recording them. I guess it gives you a little insight into their mentality. They assume that just because they have told you not to do something that you will follow their rules like a mindless robot.

[@janicehussock7735]

I am a NY attorney who has read tons of marketing, sales, and presuasion books. You did such a wonderful job. I could not keep my voice under control. Loved how you rebut Watchtower is not the gospel of Christ. Very hard to stay calm when so triggered. But skipping around verses rather than reading deeply.

[@obedrosario853]

Favorite part was the Moses section at the end!!! Thank you for brining it out. The silence from them as you spoke is golden.

[@jimmchemings6140]

Where does the Bible say to disfellowship someone that no longer wants to be a witness. Yes Paul was specific on what he meant by these teachings

[@jessemachuca]

What I find so amazing about this meeting is that it reminds me of someone who is before managers in a corporation who is facing corrective action. Obviously in your last video, they said, do you see it as an organization or as Jehovah, or something to that effect. it is an organization, run like a corporate enterprise. I was a manager for 13 years and one thing that astounded me and continues to astound me is that the elders always want to one up another one by sharing a scripture almost as if it’s a competition to see who could have the best quips and comebacks. This is exactly what happens in meetings were managers get together. It’s already been established. This is not a religion. I was baptized at 15 and I disassociated at 18 because I started to see the writing on the wall long before anyone else. The elders lives was one of the main reasons for my waking up. They could not handle the fact that a 15-year-old had to pray to take them out in field service, and they definitely cannot handle the fact that they had to wear a scarf in my presence. It’s religion is so sexist and misogynistic that even its most suppressed members, the women, sometimes fight for power and gossip beyond all measure.

[@clarencehoover6748]

Note that it’s not about “The Truth.” That’s the superficial cover story. It’s really about the Organization. Maintaining and expanding control of minds and survival of the Organization. Doctrines flow top-down from the Governing Body. Change is not possible from the bottom-up. The bible is not their authority; their GB is.

[@dolam]

The audio was really good. I guess that is one benefit of having a meeting on Zoom.

[@JL-nk3vz]

After listening to this recording in full, I just have to ask... am I the only one who has an issue with the argument that "you got baptized" so "you voluntarily made the decision to serve this organization"? If we are technical, we agreed to join the organization based on the teachings at the time. The moment they change the teachings to something we didn't agree to is as if they broke the contract. We are not bind to it anymore because that is not what we signed up for. Also, for someone who got baptized at 12, can I honestly say that I agreed 100 percent with the teachings? 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@jeffreyl5151]

Well actually if you look up the baptismal questions from years ago you'll notice that you are pledging allegiance to the organization not God. So even if they change doctrinal teaching you still signed (verbally) a contract with.

[@justrachel4496]

That was what freed me to leave my cult. I was so worried about being disloyal and not holding up my end of the commitment, until I realized that the church at the time I was leaving, wasn't the same one I joined. They broke the contract first - plus, tricked a 16 year old child into committing to what was presented as a stable, static set of rules knowing that they would change them.

[@JL-nk3vz]

@@justrachel4496 agreed. I'm happy you were able to leave. I hope more people wake up and leave.

[@superdave1263]

Every time I hear the term “the organization” it reminds me of the Mafia.

[@pamelawahlen387]

Cheering you and I’m shouting BRAVO for your honesty and strength 🎉

[@christopherparker804]

Your reasoning and logical argument is brilliant

[@studentofparadise9907]

I just finished listening to this. You did an excellent job! I am so glad you used the Word..IN CONTEXT...I was so proud! PIMO here. I should have started with this video first and worked my way to your current videos. This was very good!

[@portiasnyder1812]

Hii just watched you moving interview with Lloyd evens ! It was awesome thank you so much for sharing your story with everyone , you are helping so many to make the choice to get out and not hide any longer and to stop being afraid ,,and living a double life which is so hard one you emotionally . So glad your happy and doing well 👍👍subbed.

[@catmeow333]

Great job Jake. They must’ve struggled to resist agreeing with your logic.

[@matthewagozino5381]

There should be no mercy shown to these “elders”. Arrogant and self-righteous. Big fish in a small pond. I hope someday they will ashamed of themselves.

[@JL-nk3vz]

Oh brother.... lmao... they dropped the "wait on Jehovah" within the first 12 minutes. They have no other answer and the teachings make no sense either. Fun fact, you are correct. If we were to answer regular questions in 2020 using our knowledge from 2006, we'd be hella wrong - even borderline apostate.

[@mikespilligan1490]

Doubter "Are the governing body perfect ?" Elders "No, they are not perfect" Doubter "If they arent perfect they are imperfect." Elder "Yes" Doubter "So which part of their utterances don't you agree with ? "

[@g-manc.1899]

Bravo⭐🙏 thank you for sharing

[@creelesoloalabiblia6213]

Every time they were confronted, they changed the subject of the conversation.

[@back-roomconfessions6746]

I’m coming back 2 yrs later to listen to this again. You ate this shit up, they were so ill equipped to address your arguments. I love this takedown. They just have to stick to their script and not account for the person they’re scolding to have actual legitimate criticism

[@danielmiraziz1093]

Mac and Jesus sounds like a delightful sit com premise.

[@clarkgrayhame1250]

You made some great points. I appreciated your composure through the whole thing.

[@Sportliveonline]

Apotheosis is the glorification of a subject to divine level and most commonly, the treatment of a human like a god. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology, apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.

[@allanu6416]

Wow! You were spot on! Your tone, line of reasoning, was excellent!

[@paradisefound3536]

Loved the hypothetical argument about loving your wife up until you find out that she's not at all the person you made a vow to. Excellent on the hoof logic. I, like everyone one else in the comments, am in awe. Gaslighting turns my brain to mush.

[@SusieQ0665]

I read some of these comments and I KNOW they are witnesses... What are THEY doing listening to this when they KNOW these are not for any other Witness to hear? When I read a comment worded like they are reading from a JW publication, I have to laugh. Because if they are here, they are committing wrongdoing. Just saying.

[@justinbeibsfan]

I’m a month late to the party but holy crap! This was so good! Kudos to you for all the great points you made. I can’t remember what it was but there was a point you made I never heard or thought of and literally gasped with awe haha. Loved the “monthly stone tablet” part lmao. Also @47:53 “I’m not questioning it, I’m confident they’re not the channel” Elder: “hmm” hahaha

[@cammieowens4687]

If you asked these Elders relative to Timothy: “If the Governing Body received new revelation that Jesus did rise from the dead in the flesh, would you then agree and defend that teaching?”, what would they say?

[@hellyBUNNYx]

I have to say, I bursted out laughing at the cut out of the prayer in the beggining

[@adamcosper3308]

As a non-JW, this feels like one of the worst book club meetings in history.

[@fartingmcqueef]

This is excellent. I majorly respect your pushback. I left about 8 years ago and wish I recorded my final judicial committee meeting. It was wild

[@6rulersdave]

Enjoyed your episode on Shunned! And I enjoyed this secret recording as well... My elder did not know I was recording them either, and after the video went through I know they look at me differently now.

[@andracadicecrawford4256]

You let them haaaave it! I looooove it bro!

[@scarletapostate618]

I'm enjoying your channel sooo much Jake!! I like that it brings some humor about some very heavy and/or painful subjects. Do you mind posting the date of the article about changing religion? Thank you again ☺️

[@altworldly]

Thank you so much! I put the reference on the screen when I start reading from it, here’s a direct link to the article www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g200907/Is-It-Wrong-to-Change-Your-Religion/

[@scarletapostate618]

Oh sorry! Thank you again 🙂

[@michel8363]

Managed to listen until the 18th minute. We all know what their reaction will be, but yet it's causing a lot of stress and stomach ache. Hang in there altwordly!

[@anniesavedbygrace]

A good example to share. Thanks theres a good few points in this that can help those facing the same. Well done. Sync was a little off at the beginning between video and sound but didn't take anything away from the video content x

[@Gigislaps]

“I don’t think it’s parting the Red Sea” I was howling, so hilarious

[@kristicallnc]

Omg the stone tablet bit..... Dead!!!!!

[@andracadicecrawford4256]

I don't want to Gloss over some of the things that you're saying...... as they Gloss of ooooover MOST of the things that you're saying!!!! Lol smh

[@ZoeBellCake]

Oh boy, I'm looking forward to listening to this during my lunch break today. I'd love to know what they had to say.

[@jessicaparker298]

Man this is so good! I wanna hear the rest of it!!

[@MichaelYoder1961]

Jake - you made salient points, you were clear and concise, but you're trying to reason with the Borg to not assimilate you because 1+1=2. It doesn't work because they have only one goal, but good one you for standing your ground!

[@kabelloshairsalon8490]

I like how you always had the right answers. Way to go

[@MrMatthew54]

You were a teenager when you got baptized (made a contract as an underaged person). They say it so matter of factly, without realizing even what they are saying.

[@DustinJ592]

Many good points expressed between 45:00 and 50:00. Well played.

[@pennybeeflower1951]

Thank you for sharing. What I want to speak of is that these men all work outside the congregational setting and know the rules of companies in terms of termination from the company. Yes an agreement is signed upon hiring (as a consenting adult with the option to get legal advise if they want) and it's understood based on Written documents. So when the elders insist that baptism is the signature, in essence, and you agreed so you made the choice (albeit illegal for children to sign contracts which he disregards but us major) he also knows that there must not be reprisals for being hired or released from employment at the company. The REPRISALS kids! The REPRISALS/ Negative consequences that come along with leaving jw are violent at best and fatal in multitudes (unpublished) of cases. The elders know that even worldly corporations must not have reprisals associated with employment.

[@linzrojo]

They can’t answer any question with a straight answer not one

[@Sportliveonline]

Apotheosis is the glorification of a subject to divine level and most commonly, the treatment of a human like a god. The term has meanings in theology, where it refers to a belief, and in art, where it refers to a genre. In theology, apotheosis refers to the idea that an individual has been raised to godlike stature.

[@kathleenreardon8943]

Wow his arguments are impressive! Way to go!

[@nickking8994]

"I want mercy, not sacrifice."- Jesus

[@littleturtle1610]

When people are given power, ego doesn't follow slowly and pride is worn as a dress.

[@lovefaith6285]

You are on point with your reasoning and I'm SO impressed with you. I wish people that are being shunned would take this organization to court for violating their rights to join or leave a religion. They are such hypocrites which is one reason why I never got baptized and left. I applaud you Jake for your courage, bravery and calling them out on the apparent BS of their rules and beliefs. 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@theautoman22]

I remember a similar discussion with my elders about blood. Of courses the claim is were teaching what god wants from the Bible, so I bring out scriptures that they never use like in Samuel where Sauls men eat meat not drained and don’t get punished how Paul said it’s ok to eat bloody meat as long as it doesn’t stumble someone and Leviticus chapter 17 where it specifically says you can eat an unbled animal you didn’t kill found on the road and only be unclean until evening. Their response, cricket’s. They don’t think they blindly follow.

[@lawrencestoll5390]

When you leave and your family remains, you are no longer the head of the family. They cause your wife to see you as wicked and a tool of Satan. Your wife is always expecting you to do something terrible

[@boboak9168]

I hear you! From my perspective we never were the heads of our families. As long as family members are ‘good’ JWs husbands and fathers are just vassals there at the pleasure of the Governing Body - pretty low on the totem pole with many men above them on the road to paradise. Now we know how wives must feel with this artificial authority foisted over them. They are in the exact same position, just one step lower on the totem. They can be treated with the same suspicion and mistrust when they leave but the husband remains. After leaving it’s hard to find a new acceptable balance but it can sometimes be done. For husbands who leave, hopefully they stop seeing their wife as a subordinate. Sincere best wishes to those who find themselves in this tough position!

[@ApostatePajamas]

Does it seem like those elders tried to misdirect every time you made a point or posed a question? This was exhausting just as a listener, I am amazed you survived several bouts of these circular arguments, the same ones over and over again. They were sussing out how dangerous you were to the community just for asking questions and pointing out discrepancies. Thanks for sharing. Btw, have you looked into a better way to sync the audio? Thanks!

[@altworldly]

Yeahhh I have no idea what happened here, the patreon version didn’t have this issue. I do think I just need a better camera though.

[@Nadineperry1]

Wow such arrogance these people are

[@RainAngel111]

They're just completely deaf. I wish they'd just be honest and say "we don't appreciate you criticising the organization and we're going to separate you from your family unless you stop"

[@jedicid]

You are such a great debater. You were able to control your emotions. I remember how my ex-wife's family, kind of broke our marriage in a very passive aggressive way. They were JW and we weren't.

[@marciomaia4020]

Dude you nailed every rebuttal you had for them. Perfect job bro. 👏

[@deepfriedbrains__437]

Even if you're a Grand Master you can't beat a pigeon at chess, but very sporting of you letting three try to combine their powers of perception 😉 really dig your style & channel 👍 keep it rolling bro