I Testified In Court AGAINST These Dog Breeds

It's widely known that I'm against the unethical breeding of brachycephalic dogs, such as the French Bulldog, Pug, English Bulldog, and Boston Terrier, for various reasons. I was made aware of an opportunity recently to testify in court in favor of a bill banning these dog breeds in New Hampshire. I thought it'd be fun to react to my testimony, give more clarification on specific points, and nitpick my constant interrupting. Enjoy!
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
Testimony Reaction 01:46
Outro 45:52
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#veterinarian #vetmed #pugs

[@reganhulvey4213]

I own a dog boarding facility & we just made the decision to STOP taking brachycephalic dogs. They scare the hell out of me from a health standpoint.

[@mmsanrio]

Shih Tzu’s too?

[@michelleturner6865]

These breeds have been around a long time. Funny how they manage to survive. Some for hundreds of years. Pugs maybe a thousand. Shih Tzu as well. No need to ban anything. Just promote healthier individuals.

[@LWren-nr6ud]

​@michelleturner6865 If you look at old photos and paintings of pugs they still had muzzles. They were short compared to a standard muzzle but not indented into the skull like some of the worst cases are today. There are breeders out there trying to bring back the old pug, which would not be banned under these laws.

[@ulalaFrugilega]

@@michelleturner6865the same with pugs, look into portrait paintings of past centuries, pugs are relatively often in their with their humans, and they are not easily recognised if you ate looking for what we are used to, now.

[@ModernVintage31]

@@michelleturner6865Like… through legislation? Because the current breeding industry created breed standards are a big part of the problem.

[@dr.catdoga384]

This should apply to cat breeds also. Ive seen some completely flat faced Persians that seem miserable.

[@jmclivaudais3291]

So true

[@CoquiDeBoriken]

We had a persian at the shelter once. It was my first time ever witnessing a cat snoring loudly in its sleep.

[@aphyngodiva2551]

Absolutely agree. I have a friend working as a vet tech who just recently had a Persian pass away from being anesthetized. It's disgusting that people create more of the animals.

[@clowntown3]

Persians also usually have very long fur that needs to be groomed often, they can't groom themselves because their muzzles are too short

[@glowindark64]

God this is so heinous. I hope this Is an issue of education but sometime I think people are just evil

[@lanekobel6006]

I think the idea that the breed standards need to be changed and not that these breeds should disappear is a fair argument to be made.

[@109367]

THIS, we need to petition the kennel clubs and breed clubs for change, promote health above all else and encourage breeders to produce more structurally sound animals. The Retro Pug is a good looking dog imo and should definitely be promoted as much as possible.

[@sarahwheeler52]

I agree with you as a reputable breeder, we should always strive to breed for health, however, many of the issues in breeds you see are dogs from bybs pr puppy mills. Sure once in a blue moon a reputable breeder has issues, but a true reputable breeder doesn’t continue to breed the problem.

[@lanekobel6006]

@@sarahwheeler52 I don't disagree that responsible breeders do everything they can the breed the healthiest dogs that meet the breed standard. You guys love dogs just as much if not more than most people. The problem is the breed standard itself is an inherited issue. BOAS is named after the shape of the skull that many dog breeds have been bred for. It is 10 times out of 10 a more restricted breathing status than a dolichocephalic dog or a dog with a typical face shape. Exercise intolerance and impaired thermal control are practically assured not including the list of BOAS signs and conditions that are more likely to occur just because of breeding for that face shape.

[@sarahwheeler52]

@@lanekobel6006 the problem is that a breed standard can be a bit different for each person. If it’s a true and big issue within the reputable breeders, I honestly can’t see them ignoring it and creating unhealthy dogs. Like I said, I’ve seen and played with many at shows, from puppies to adults, I’ve never seen them have any indication of a breathing problem. But that being said I’m sure it happens, just like you can breed labs with clear hips and still get something down the line.

[@littleowl22778]

​@109367 same can be said about ridgebacks. That ridge is literally their spine being twisted, its not a fur pattern trait, its a purposely breed physical deformity.

[@zanniesmom]

I used to go to a vet that raised Frenchies and Persians. One of her dogs was at the vet for the day because she had done that nose/throat surgery to let him breathe better. She just scheduled C-sections for her dogs and cats because they couldn't deliver naturally. She had to wash her dogs and cats faces every night to prevent problems with the wrinkles in their face. It made me very uncomfortable to know she contributed to dogs' suffering.

[@Patricia-gy4wd]

The fact they were a vet and should be fully aware of how awful these issues are... that's a new kind of evil in my opinion

[@melanopygus]

That's disgusting. Sadly some vets are just in it for the money.

[@pennywisenibbles4949]

Making the dogs life easier isn’t the problem but she was breeding it with those a difficulties ?

[@down2this754]

@@pennywisenibbles4949 everyone who breeds those types of animals knows they have those difficulties. It's a hard pill to swallow.

[@the_newt_nest]

​@@Patricia-gy4wd Unfortunately, even when people gain experience in a field, their previous biases remain. See also nurses who are anti-vax.

[@LinRuiEn]

If people could feel the pain these breeds go through just trying to stay alive, they would (hopefully) want to ban these practices immediately. Shame on the people who keep breeding these dogs doomed to suffer.

[@Synthetic-Rabbit]

I dunno I had my Pug who I loved dearly and he died last year at 14. No breathing problems at all but his back legs and back end started to have nerve damage. He was muh best bud

[@natsukitatsumakiniji]

I agree and would compare it to Rollkur in horse dressage, but it's considered 'standard' when copious amounts of money exist, like high-level international competitions, like FEI (International Federation for Equestrian Sports).

[@pennywisenibbles4949]

They lack basic empathy

[@WonderfulAkari]

What is the ø sign people in the back have?

[@LLandS18]

​@@Synthetic-Rabbityeah, nobody on this comment section believes you you're pug didn't have breathing issues. Your pug on the planet who didn't have breathing issues then.

[@Dontstopbelievingman]

I hate that even if you tell people about the health issues and the cruelty, they still go out and spend $3k on a dog that is so deformed. If there is no demand, there are no sales. But people won't listen.

[@I-hate-youtube797]

They truly don’t care it’s deformed. They think they’re cute and want them anyway. Or they are delusional and think they’ll be that lucky person that gets a brachy dog that’s not sick. Either way for some strange and bizarre reason they find these deformed dogs appearance more appealing than a normal dog’s appearance. Which is strange to me. I won’t deny it, brachycephalic dogs like pugs and frenchies are adorable. But they’re not as cute as westies or Pomeranians. Both small lap dogs that fit the lifestyle of people after a dog like a pug. And both much cuter, much smarter, and much healthier. But for some reason they actually prefer the deformed faces of pugs and bulldogs etc. it’s strange but ultimately it comes down to brachy dogs being cute and people not wanting to accept reality

[@ghostratsarah]

If only humans were so accepting of other deformed humans

[@43ShaDey]

If you haven't noticed, majority of the public are stupid. Ppl put their wants and desires over all common sense.

[@validark]

There is a french bulldog breeder in Melbourne who sells their dogs for atleast 15k and the highest i saw was 60k These dogs aren't "breed standard" due to their coat colour so they can't be show dogs but this breeder can still get like 45k per litter at least

[@down2this754]

@@validark That is certainly a buyer problem. It's the same thing as people buying hideous poodle crosses. There are going to be suppliers that are unethical for pretty much anything anyone is willing to spend money on.

[@sandrahough7554]

I can’t believe anyone would promote these abnormalities. They are super cute dogs-just breed them to have a nose!! They will still be a cute, sweet dog!

[@hollyingraham3980]

They used to be cute with muzzles. They were cuter! We need to revert to the older standards.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@hollyingraham3980 My dad's pugs were just this way. He bred them in the 60s when I was a kid. (Jan Griffiths).

[@amusedBYfools]

I didn't realize these dogs even had problems.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@amusedBYfools So many breeds have problems. It's mind boggling. (Jan Griffiths).

[@differentdestiny]

Don't pugs also have a symptom where their eyeballs basically pop out? And other breeds get to a point where they can barely walk due to the deformity of their bodies?

[@shannonbalthazor8712]

I have no idea why this came up in my facebook feed. But sitting here with a head cold, congested - not getting quality sleep and feeling tired and annoyed from mouth breathing..... yeah .... I can't imagine being a pug or frenchie having this permanently. Poor pups. They are so cute, but I have seen quite a few that snort when breathing. It can't be fun for them.

[@larastarmer4777]

I’ve been having sinus issues all my life and I mouth breathe almost all the time but when I get lucky and my sinuses are not so bad and my nasal sprays work, it’s a whole different life. So I very much understand what these dogs are going through and it makes me so sad. Also for the people saying that people would never get these dogs if they knew how they feel, unfortunately human stupidity and cruelty has no bottom. A while ago some idiot said that she wants to get a french bulldog because she can relate to him because she can’t breathe properly too and that they could bond over that. One day this breed will be banned but until then we should call these idiots out. Putting laws in place takes so much time but we can all shame them either aggressively or in a polite way and help in ending this sooner. Just don’t stay quiet.

[@pancake.squirrel]

I don’t even really find them cute-animals are the cutest when they’re the happiest and brachycephalic dogs are not the happiest.

[@FukaiKokoro]

But we can breed that out... Make the snouts longer and breed out the bad genetics. They are still cute and adorable with longer snouts. If anything cuter because they aren't suffering

[@pancake.squirrel]

@@FukaiKokoro the breed standard would have to change, because good breeders breed to the standard, fantastic breeders breed for quality of life. Idk that there are any fantastic brachycephalic breeders.

[@idrabohm3678]

​​@@FukaiKokoro Even if we do eventually breed these traits out, what about the generations of dogs who suffer to get to the point where previously brachycephalic dog breeds can live a happy, normal life? Why is their life-long suffering worth the preservation of this breed? Is this not also an incredible burden to place on these dogs? There are many, many healthy dog breeds that exist already. Why not choose a dog that is already capable of living a healthy life?

[@phyllisbennett5414]

I knew a French bulldog that did agility: it was so painful listening to its agonised breathing on the slightest effort. I was shocked that a Frenchie went through to the final line up at Crufts Best in Show last week. It had to breathe through its mouth just to do its circuit of the show ring Thank you for having the courage to speak up for these poor animals.

[@sarahwheeler52]

The UK does have issues with some breeds because for many many many years they weren’t able to import easily, and sadly it did affect breeds there. I have seen many pugs and frenchies at shows and I’ve never encountered one that breathes weird.

[@phyllisbennett5414]

@@sarahwheeler52 what about the one that won best of breed ar Crufts, but had to breathe through its mouth to get round the ring?

[@spindledreams]

@@phyllisbennett5414 um if you are talking this year that dog was checked by vets before it was allowed to compete and if I remember correctly it was already tested by Cambridge for BOAS and had a score of O meaning no signs of BOAS

[@phyllisbennett5414]

@spindledreams I watched an interview with the Crufts vet. Courage wasn't a word that springs to mind. She was more interested in bringing the breeders with her. I couldn't help thinking if the old expression about the tail wagging the dog. Crufts aee doing too little too late. It's a decade since the 'Pedigree Dogs Exposed ' programme and what has really changed?

[@tonitomei6323]

The AKC needs to change its standards

[@GriffinWulf]

thank you, it sucks we have to resort to the legal system to stop this because the clubs just won't listen to veterinary recommendations!!

[@reganhulvey4213]

Also… just wanna say if we “bred” children to look like Voldemort… would people finally listen then? 😅😅😅😅

[@shirin8609]

A little off base... if only because now people are mutilating their children to "affirm their identities..." 😣

[@davidgray1515]

I thought we already did.

[@the_newt_nest]

Well, humans have to live almost two decades before they can be bred lol.

[@theopulentone1650]

@@the_newt_nest With Genetic engineering the possiblities will be near endless for human gene editing.

[@sabias3932]

Ma'am! 😂

[@nezumired]

It's so frustrating to hear brachycephaly compared to things like hip dysplasia or cancer. No breed standard actively rewards breeding animals with shallow hip sockets the way they do deformed skulls. The brachycephalic breed standard creates an economic incentive to breed for a harmful trait such that selling outcrossed animals is less economically viable.

[@comfortme]

also hip dysplasia does not lead to other problems. nobody WANTS a dog that is suffering unless it looks cute while doing it. those shallow heads cause headaches, pressure, eyes to fall out, breathing, brain issues. it’s so much more than any other concern we have seen. the fact that i literally saw people saying “don’t clasp n squeeze your frenchie too hard! it’s eyes will pop out” is UTTERLY HORRIFIC like it’s just a casual fun fact that their eyes can just fall out like a doll. terrible. i hold my cats face some times to pet her or give her kisses, i cant imagine her eye just falling out because of such a gesture

[@a_lethe_ion]

German shepherd modern form is worse bc it has the hip slide down causing hip issues

[@helenaalexandra4197]

@@comfortme sorry, my GSD & GSD cross would like to disagree with you. While it may not directly cause other problems, like brachycephaly does, it does exacerbate issues that otherwise might be less traumatic. *Because* my GSD had hip dysplasia, what should have been a 85-90 lb dog, was maxed out at 75-80 to keep the weight off his hips; he was deliberately encouraged to be a low energy dog, and since he was recovering from an abusive situation, that was not a hard habit to form, and once established, not to hard to maintain. Lest you decry that I was starving him, he ate something like 5-6 Cups of grain free kibble a day; he was encouraged to play, when he would, with our other dog and with our cats , and we took him on walks and to the dog park when possible and of course into our yard multiple times a day. Helena's Prince Alexander of Rebel's Rest Farm was 12 when he died. *Because* my parents' SD cross had hip dysplsia, when his back legs started to give out due to his Degenerative myelopathy, he lost hip functionality far faster than was expected. There was no progression from "needs help on the stairs" to "needs a ramp , because he cannot use stairs anymore" to "must be carried over height changes". He just skipped the ramp stage altogether, because his hips could not hold him up correctly. Buddy Steel was 13 when we made the decision to send him across the Rainbow Bridge; his quality of life could not be maintained even with medication and all the care and affection and veterinary attention in the world; he could barely walk when assisted, he was losing his senses, and he was beginning to regress mentally.

[@friendformationbot]

Well, the breed standard for German Shepherds have absol;utely rewarded breeding for dysplasia. that breed standard should also be outlawed, it's cruel as well.

[@nezumired]

@friendformationbot Hip dysplasia isn't listed as a desirable trait in and of itself the way brachycephaly is. A German Shepard with healthy hip joints has excellent conformation. A pug with a longer muzzle would be disqualified. But, yes, the pure breed show community has not been willing to take the necessary steps to reduce the problems caused generations of inbreeding.

[@Patricia-gy4wd]

Thank you for addressing that it's not a backyard breeder problem but a current breed standard problem in your testimony. It saddens me that people will defend and support the breeding of animals that struggle in basic bodily functions for survival just because they think it's cute and endearing. It's immoral.

[@Mupyeong]

I love the argument of backyard breeders because it shows how much these people deflect. Backyard dogs are ironically much more of a mixed bag between good and bad than the professional ones because they often just mix in random dogs. Breeders also ruin their own genepools. I knew a person who had a breed standard dog with SEVERAL awards. She was about to open her up for breeding as she was among the healthiest dogs available of her breed. Then the dog lost a tooth because of a car accident and this super healthy, perfectly fine dog was removed from the breed list for "not meeting the standard". :) The dog was healthy into old age and a great companion. Pisses me off to this day.

[@ayior]

​@@Mupyeong ...especially because losing a tooth doesn't even have an effect on its genetics, wtf

[@rawexplorer8373]

Also AKC should not support docking and cropping!!

[@DVMCellini]

absolutely

[@michelleturner6865]

That does not cause any health issues. It’s not cruel and is personal preference. Stop with this shit.

[@nobodyyouknow7226]

​@@DVMCellini For what reason exactly? Other than the fact that it might go against your personal aesthetics?

[@nobodyyouknow7226]

I'm sorry but yes they absolutely should. Working dogs, happy tail syndrome, medically necessary amputations and so on absolutely do benefit from talking and cropping practices.

[@rawexplorer8373]

@@nobodyyouknow7226 actually most ear injuries or ear infections occur in breeds that were never cropped, like cocker spaniels, poodles, labradors, weimaraners. With tails, the “happy tail syndrome” occurs in some dogs but not necessarily only in traditionally docked breeds. It is common in staffies, labradors, English pointers. I have even seen a German shepherd with this problem. Therefore I dont think its moral to cut off tails and ears at birth. This is mostly done due to tradition and aesthetic reasons but usually brings nothing but harm to the dog. Of course medical amputation is a different story and should not be banned. Aesthetic docking and cropping is banned in most EU countries and considered animal abuse through mutilation

[@hollyingraham3980]

Persian cats didn't used to have bad brakes. I have a photo c.1929 of a champion with a very normal face. I love cats, which is why I view Munchkins with horror and pity

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

I have a purebred Munchkin cat. She didn't get the short legs, she is an LLV (long limbed variant). She has all of the other traits required for in the standard except for her legs. How about dog breeds with short legs? They should be looked at with horror and pity as well. At least Munchkins don't get the back problems the short legged dog breeds do because their skeletons are more flexible. (Jan Griffiths).

[@SoulDevoured]

​@@douglasgriffiths3534dude I think it's probably safe to say they probably also don't like short limbed dogs like dachshunds too. Which btw were originally bred that way for a working purpose and not for the cute factor. Though of course modern breeding has exasperated the issues into a less healthy animal in pursuit of the cute factor. And if your cat does not have the features of the breed that hinders their quality of life they were probably also not talking about your cat. You don't need to take criticism personally or defend people's bad breeding practices when that is obviously the thing being criticized. I'm glad you love your cat and presumably treat it well though.

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

Old style Persians are now called "heritage Persians" and are considered far less "desirable" to the breeding clubs.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@SoulDevoured The short legs of the Munchkin are the result of a mutation, which are also the reason for dog breeds with short legs. And yes, I do love my Babycat dearly. (Jan Griffiths).

[@mommalion7028]

@@douglasgriffiths3534 They are so cute 🥰 but I get all my cats from dumpsters or shelters. I’ve always wanted a Siamese myself but the first time I saw a munchkin cat in a video I squealed from how precious it looked. I just can’t justify buying a cat for more than $50 with my lifestyle 😂 you’re probably a bit posh compared to me. Give munchkin kiss for me!!!

[@pawpkitty]

I have people in my life who want these breeds, and it sucks that I have to hold my tongue. There are so many healthy dogs to choose from and it blows my mind that people don't care.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Why hold your tongue? You can be polite and kind while also educating someone.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Before I got my dog I wanted a pug or something. Then I fell in love with cattle dogs. Glad I educated myself.

[@pawpkitty]

@@FukaiKokoro they are my in laws, so I have to tread carefully lol

[@AnnabethOwl]

Wouldn’t it be different if you get the breeds from a shelter? I’m curious.

[@pawpkitty]

@@AnnabethOwl Of course that is different, but a majority don't go through shelters to get them

[@kellydorazio]

I caught that "dogs and cats" in your opening statement, and I almost cried. Because you also said CATS. YES!!!! Yes, yes. These cats SUFFER and their owners are oblivious to what is happening. The cutest, poorly bred Himalayan I have seen most recently. Chronic Upper Respiratory, Malocclusion, 104, did not erupt but was sequestered at a 90-degree angle in the maxilla, Yesterday, this barely 2 year old cat presented with focal seizures rapidly progressing to generalized seizure activity. Now, a lifetime of medication...😢

[@durabelle]

Cats should definitely be talked about a lot more too, I agree. Many cat breeds are still pretty healthy when it comes to their appearance, but Persians have definitely crossed the line ages ago, some others like the Burmese are approaching full on smush face, and then there's the likes of Scottish Fold for example where the ear shape itself seems pretty harmless, but the gene behind those folded ears causes issues with cartilage all over the body, and basically every single individual suffers because of it.

[@maryeckel9682]

That's heartbreaking, poor kitty

[@SpottedLeafy]

It's sad cause it wasn't even that long ago that himalayans had normal faces, my mum had one as i was growing with a completely normal face and she was the sweetest thing ever. She even looked into maybe starting to breed Himalayans but decided against it when she saw the trend moving towards flat faces. I personally will never understand the flat face aesthetic, aside from the health issues i just don't like it...

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

@@SpottedLeafy Himalayans are considered Persians because they have to conform to the same breed standard. The only difference is color. CFA removed their separate breed classification in 1984, referring to them as Persian--Himalayan Division. (Jan Griffiths).

[@Pearl.Is.Autistic.SU.900]

Also brachycephalic pigeons

[@dmcdan1004]

Nothing will change until the breed standard changes. It is painfully obvious the AKC has no real interest in dog welfare by looking at these breeds and their suffering.

[@wendydonnelly4885]

The breed standards are written by a committee within the breed parent club. Then it’s voted on by the members of the parent breed club before sending it to AKC for approval and then it appears on the AKC breed website if no change is needed if changes are required it’s sent back to the breed parent club and corrections are made then re voted by club members and resubmitted to AKC. So both the breed parent club and the AKC work together in conjunction with creating or updating the breed standard.

[@dmcdan1004]

​@@wendydonnelly4885 Thanks so much for this information. So both the parent breed club and AKC are responsible for the breed standard. It would be of benefit for all breeds to have the standard reviewed by a designated group of completely independent veterinarians for their input and/or approval. Just a thought.

[@109367]

Back in the early 90s my family got into breeding Dalmatians (capitalizing on the craze after Disney released that live-action remake), little did they know, because of a Backcrossing Project over a decade before, the dogs my family procured to begin their breeding project, could not be registered with the AKC. Why were Dalmatians impure and crossed with Pointers? Well, Dalmatians had issues with uric acid building up in their bladders cause by a metabolic defect, which formed into painful stones. There was no way to breed this out of the breed without crossbreeding, because every single Dalmatian had the defect. Our Dalis looked and acted just like any purebred and on top of all that, were actually healthy. But the AKC only seemed to care about purity of the bloodlines. My family really pushed, with a lot of other breeders, to have the AKC change its mind about registering these dogs from the backcrossing project, but it wasn't until 2011, long after we had given up, to accomplish AKC recognition, which is really sad. I don't really see the AKC or breed clubs changing the standards of these dogs, unfortunately, people need to STOP buying them, SM influencers especially! I've unfollowed a few now who just, went out and bought French Bulldogs, even saying they KNEW of all the health problems, "but look how cute!" it's disgusting.

[@joycebrewer4150]

My neighbor's daughter wanted a dalmatian pup after seeing that movie. He finally said ok, thinking he could recoup the price of buying her, by selling her pups. The thing was, when that pup matured, a brown stray male dog got to her before she could be bred to another dalmatian. The pups were all mutts. This happened 6 times before the dad who bought a female dalmatian gave up and had her spayed.

[@109367]

@@joycebrewer4150 That is so irresponsible, my goodness

[@joycebrewer4150]

@@109367 🤣 My neighbor didn't give up easily on the idea of pedigreed pups to sell. He tried to confine her when the dog was in heat, but like I said, the male stray found a way.

[@pmc2999]

One of the worst parts is that some dogs are made popular and everybody wants one. But they know nothing about the personality of the dog or it's needs. And after a few months the poor dogs end up abandoned or in a rescue. My friend is convinced she'll get a better dog from a breeder. I'll stick to rescues. Sadly there are many rescues that actually rescue certain breeds. Being an expensive fancy breed is no guarantee your owner won't decide they are tired of you and something more popular has come along.

[@paintbrush3554]

​@@pmc2999 yeah people are dumb, thoughtless and selfish. Tbh I know alot of dog/pet owners that go through tons of animals and treating them poorly just to move on to the next one. They take no time to research the animal or learn if its needs mesh with their lifestyle. They get what looks appealing on the surface, and whats popular. The animals have to pay but they won't stop their practices.

[@BadNessie]

Holy something, that argument of a breed being a thousand years old is breaking me. A thousand years of potential suffering, and we just keep going. I also don't understand how people can't bring together a feature being wanted in a breed and the fact that this type of feature comes with severe suffering in a large portion of the respective animals lead to the feature not being a good idea. People also confuse a person advocating for animal health by asking for reduction of these features with a person hating these dogs. It's kind of sad. Appreciate that you took this challenge.

[@IlloyedKater]

And if you look at old pictures of these dogs their noses are maybe shorter but not indented. And mind you the invention of pictures is not that long ago, so obviously they have NOT been like that for a 1000 years 🙄. So saying "ThEy HaVe aLwAyS been like this is." Is evidently not true...

[@skyeiron5872]

@@IlloyedKater Nothing has changed and ruined breeds more than breed standards and conformation shows yet they have the gall to claim that they are 'preservation' breeders and working to 'improve' their breed, and and by and large only end up leaving the breed worse off than what it was before. Even leaving out the extreme features some have been bred into, the high COI (Coefficient Of Inbreeding) found in most breeds is devastating to their immune systems and longevity. For reference the COI of a full sibling or parent/child mating is 25%. So many breeds have a COI well above that.

[@douglasgriffiths3534]

Pugs didn't look the way they do now even as little as 60 years ago when my dad bred them. They had muzzles back then---short, yes, but not pushed in. And their eyes didn't bug out as much. They were cuter back then. (Jan Griffiths).

[@BadNessie]

@@douglasgriffiths3534 yes, that. And I know that some breeders are breeding Frenchies back into a... let's call it... healthy shape, with muzzles, tails, legs etc. The outer appearance has nothing to do with the personalities that people value so much in these kinds of breeds.

[@davidgray1515]

Advocating to end the breed instead of penalizing the breeders sure sounds like they hate the dogs themselves.

[@thatonebab7351]

It isn't just dogs and cats with the issue of inborn, painful and stressful deformities that breeders desire, but horses, chickens, and snakes as well to my knowledge. Breeding only for aesthetics (or in the case of chickens, sheer productive capability) needs to stop. The animals don't need to suffer for human vanity and greed.

[@sleepyninjarin7971]

I unsubscribed from so many channels for supporting spider ball pythons (snake with slightly different pattern is worth the )clear neurological issues right??

[@c.a.fontaine1074]

I have severe allergies to the point that I had to go to the emergency room once because I could barely breathe. I still struggle to breathe alot, it makes it hard for me to eat, move around and sleep I will never support pouting a dog through the same suffering I go through.

[@skyeiron5872]

The main problem is that show breeders collectively suffer from the purity mentality. To them, crossbreeding a dog is the worst thing they can do and they will forever carry a taint no matter how many back crossings are done, those dogs will never be 'pure' no matter how indistinguishable they are from any pedigree certified pure dog. Take the LUA Dalmatians for example. One pointer many generations ago to bring in the dominant normal Low Uric Acid gene to a gene pool completely lacking it and many Dalmatian breeders, judges, and KC's still refuse to accept them as Dalmatians, despite the fact that they are completely indistinguishable from other Dalmatians in any way and far better off for the lack of sometimes deadly bladder stones. As to the Pekingese, yes it is an old breed, however, for most of that time they looked much more like the Tibetan Spaniel than they did the current Pekingese. Now we have a new problem with the current Tibetan Spaniel being bred to look more and more like the current Pekingese. The Pekingese has many of the same problems as the Pug, Frenchie etc, it's just not as popular and not as well known.

[@lemonzester12]

What happened to the pekingese is similar to what happen the pomeranian (for many centuries they where similar in size to huskies)

[@skyeiron5872]

@@lemonzester12 You can actually still get throwback Poms which can be as large as 15kg. And to add to the sins of Pomeranian breeders, they are now prone to CM/SM as found by the study 'Phenotypic characterization of Pomeranians with or without Chiari-like malformation and syringomyelia' which is the only study done on CM/SM in Pomeranians to date.

[@laelienation]

I have a throwback Pomeranian he weighs 12 pounds, he is a runner. I also have a Pekingese that looks more like a Tibetan Spaniel, but she cant walk more than half a mile and she is done😮

[@Michelle-fh2dp]

I love short nosed dogs like Lhasa Apsos & Cavalier King Chas Spaniels, but even I am shocked by some dogs and cats that have practically concave faces! It is definitely cruelty! I'm with you that this along with achondroplasia and tail and ear docking should be ILLEGAL!

[@rawexplorer8373]

Cavaliers should not be flat faced. Its a stupid trend just like in rottweilers and St Bernards

[@huskygold5319]

​@@rawexplorer8373 agreed my aunt breeds them specifically to get rid of this trait. All of her dogs breath great and are very, very healthy.

[@Albinojackrussel]

Tail and ear docking can have a purpose (for working dogs it can be safer, and it can be a treatment for happy tail syndrome). But 100% docking shouldn't be done without a good reason, and it certainly should be a breed standard. "Short faces" brachycephaly, never serves a purpose beyond human aesthetics and should be banned. If we want short noses we can get stuffed toys. King Charles Spaniels are already illegal to breed in Norway because they have so.many health issues (not just due to brachycephaly admittedly) that it's considered animal cruelty to breed them.

[@Verenneito]

Cavalier King spaniels are extremely sick in other ways too, their skull is too small for their brain which often causes them extreme pain and seizures.

[@chesneymigl4538]

We had a frenchie puppy come in for vaccinations that had a reaction. Normally, an allergic reaction is concerning, but this puppy was extreme brachy even for the breed. The puppy ended up recovering well, but it was very scary watching how long it took to secure the airway and then wait for the puppy to be able to maintain it themself.

[@anpanmomdesu]

You did a great job! 👏 As for the "corticosteroid" question, tell them that you're a neurologist, not an endocrinologist. Some of those questions were dumb (hint, hint), but you were eloquent in your answers. 🥳

[@thedot66]

That guy who asked that wants to ignore outright obvious suffering and just look at bloodwork

[@Jaylenem333]

Don’t beat yourself up too much Doc!! You did great and I’m glad you spoke up about this! 👏

[@AffluentlyGEN]

Screw him

[@jackaboyx3]

Honestly all your answers were very solid. We all wish we could go back and say something different but your testimony was very strong. Lets hope the bill passes 👍

[@semjay]

Every time one of the council members tried to say brachycephaly, I died a little inside. 😂

[@arvoleth8381]

"Why are breeders hesitant to consider brachycephalic animals as malformed?"- As sad as that may be but the most common reason is clearly money, these breeds are wildly popular on social media among uneducated people and they pay thousands of dollars for them. Then they notice how much of an financial risk these poor animals become and they end up flooding the shelters, where sadly they are often beeing put down because the resources to take care of their health issues are just not there. So not only are there a lot of these poor animals suffering from these malformations, it also starts to become a wider problem for our society in generel with shelters and rescues beeing flooded with these animals. The only humane and reasonable thing is to outlaw the breeding of these "torture-breeds" as animal rescuers refer to them in my language. Thank you for your commitment against these inhumane breeding practices!

[@sleepyninjarin7971]

Also a big thing is that the people who advocate for, buy and breed these dogs would have to come to terms with all the suffering they chose to cause if they admit the truth

[@DanTheVeterinarian]

Good for you doc! Way to be active.

[@DVMCellini]

Thanks doc

[@user-cs6pd4ot2e]

The breed clubs and kennel clubs need to put serious efforts into revising the standards for these breeds and it needs to include the outright banning and disqualification of these extreme dogs from participating in any events or registration processes. Unfortunately, even if these changes occur, there remains a public demand for these deformed dogs, which unethical breeders will readily exploit.

[@fbennett6656]

One way that this might be done is to remove their non profit status. If you're are going to continue to produce these genetics nightmares, the people don't have to support them in their abuse.

[@imle9279]

There's a breeder of frernch bulldog in the Netherlands, who has been able to breed frenchies to be way more agile with little to no breathing issues. She got a litter now recently too, her dogs aren't registered tho, as they don't fit breed standard even tho they're all pure breds with proper health testing and screening. Her kennel is called Hawbucks btw, if you haven't heard from them you should really check them out and see what they do!

[@DVMCellini]

I have heard of them I touted their efforts on tiktok and got dozens and dozens of breeders saying they’re awful and I’m awful for promoting them. Yay.

[@imle9279]

@@DVMCellini Damn, people really hate on everything these days😭 even mad about happy healthy dogs that won’t end up as strays or at shelters. Btw I liked your testimony, yes it was a little bumpy road but you got to the point and got to the most important parts. So glad someone’s sticking up for these animals who seem to have no rights when it comes to living a healthy life

[@nadinabbott3991]

These breeds need to be outbred, period, towards more normal conformation. The early picture, had a muzzle.

[@imle9279]

@@nadinabbott3991 agreed. Too little genetic diversity to keep a healthy population, mix breeding healthy individuals is the only way to save these breeds

[@GilraenTook]

Oh! Is she still breeding? The last time I looked at her site, it seemed like the info on it was a bit older. Totally glad, and hope that more people end up going for her standards.

[@meikahidenori]

Some breeders attempt to breed Poms and other small toy breeds like this too. Don't! Let them keep the larger snouts! The poms we have had that have lived the best lives were ones with decent snouts! Only one we had had one that was super tiny and she passed away on a hot day because she couldn't breathe or cool down. It's not just squished nosed dogs that get made to suffer.

[@lisaforde1623]

Breed standards are really what end up harming so many breeds. They just end up with breeders breeding more and more extreme versions of the breed.

[@maryeckel9682]

It's ruining Arabian horses.

[@lisaforde1623]

@@maryeckel9682 I completely agree they look alien,

[@digits9010]

i dont think breed standard should take the blame for what people have done out of pure greed to certain dog breeds. for example, German shepherds have a breed standard that is evaluated through a unique three-point stack, however many breeders have bred for exaggerated features, regardless of faults, to pretend that their dogs are fit representations of the breed. this is not a fault of the standard, which discourages the reproduction of weak dogs. i cannot speak for brachy breeds bc i am not nearly as interested in non-herding/working breeds, but i think this distortion of standard exists for most or all dog breeds.

[@GriffinWulf]

also in regards to the peke question, perhaps it would help to bring up that veterinary interventions like BOAS correction, reproductive assistance, and C-section were not around 1000 years ago, but now medical practice has advanced to the point where more extreme morphologies can now be selected for by breeders where even 100 ears ago such degrees of deformity were simply nonviable or at least much riskier. the kinds of medical interventions available now has opened up new frontiers in artificial selection and prolonging the lives of very health compromised dogs. i know its the opposite end of the body, but as a woman i think bringing up C section rates and birthing issues in bulldogs could be a powerful angle many may be receptive to?

[@RDeFinis]

I have a 2 year old AKC Boston Terrier. I absolutely love the breed and would agree that the standard should change to support the best health and welfare for the breed. I appreciate the time and effort you put in to raise awareness and fight for change

[@RDeFinis]

I’m very interested in seeing what the AKC has to say on this matter

[@DVMCellini]

My next video is me reacting to the AKC rep’s testimony. Hopefully that clears up some things.

[@chesneymigl4538]

I would love to see many breed standards updated for modern standards of health and welfare. I've also seen so many dachshunds with back issues (and now munchkin cats too). You can have a weenie without the extreme length. But that's just my take.

[@evilcuteness8194]

Bosties have the best personalities. 😻😻😻

[@LucyMorningstar999]

Another breed I can't comprehend are the micro bully dogs, they have these short unbalanced looking legs and huge heads and tank like bodies, I'm sure these poor dogs are destined for hip and joint problems, in addition to them also being one of those brachycephalic breeds.

[@FukaiKokoro]

YES 💯 Also the type of people who usually own them are that "macho" type guy who only wants them because they look "tough"

[@RoseNZieg]

I didn't realize they existed. that is disgusting and sad.

[@annferguson3113]

It doesn’t matter in the end unfortunately. Their lifespans are painful short.

[@randomletter-5i4]

'extreme features' is a polite way of saying deformity. Thinking they are cute is a form of insanity imo. Such deformities in people are not seen as cute. I am so glad this issue is gaining momentum. Would also like to see the end of other unhealthy breeds. Norway is ahead of the game.

[@trilbynhiss]

I never understood why anyone would breed cats with flat faces. Aesthetically, it's not cute and you can see with a quick glance how difficult it is for them to breathe and how many eye problems they have. Breeding for dwarfism is weird to me too.

[@indesomniac]

I have a congenital disorder which impacts the way all of my soft tissue is produced -- I like to liken it to a Scottish Fold, whom I also believe to be unethically bred akin to dogs with severe brachycephaly. My condition makes it extremely hard for me to live a "full and normal life" and severely limits the things that I'm able to do and it's only supposed to get worse as I get older; the fact that some people will breeds animals with genetic defects like brachycephaly or osteochondrodysplasia just because "they look cute" is obscene. Anyone who argues that severe brachycephaly isn't a direct negative impact on that dogs life should go through a week or two with their nose pinched shut as even a small glimpse into what these animals go through on a daily basis.

[@kosaciecsyberyjski]

Do you have eds? Cause comparing Scottish folds to this is a very good way to show what issues these kitties have

[@aphyngodiva2551]

As someone who has owned brachycephalic mixed breeds who even while not having a severe degree of brachycephaly still exhibited brachycephalic problems, THANK YOU for also addressing that it literally has nothing to do with being "well bred" or not, it is literally the conformation is not healthy, natural, or meant to exist on a dog period. One of my dogs had esophagitis and would vomit from drinking too much water too fast, she would also get very hot and pant very heavily compared to my other pup who while being brachycephalic she had a longer muzzle and did not struggle as intensely. They also both had epiphora likely from blocked lacrimal ducts, and the one with the shorter muzzle had more severe of a problem with this and would get dermatitis and infections in her facial skin folds that were unable to get air and dry out, I combatted this by trimming the fur as short as possible so the moisture did not take as long to evaporate and they stayed dry. I also forgot the word for it, but there is also a disorder where the fur on the muzzle/facial folds (not the eyelids, I know that is ectropion) grows curved and into the eyeball, she also had that. The thing is breeders of brachycephalic animals don't see a non-life threatening problem as being an issue at all, when it is still very much an issue and affects the health and comfort of the animal. If they just took a moment to examine their animals more closely and care about their well being and comfort, they would see the problems. Instead they chock it up to being a "breed trait" and "if your animal is struggling with it it simply means you're not caring for it well enough". Or you're not breeding them well enough to care about them being born without menial issues? I've especially seen this from the American Cocker Spaniel breed where cherry eyes are prominent. Many breeders still breed affected dogs because they don't see it as being a huge deal, it's "just a breed thing", or they're aware of it also being a conformation issue that if they bred it out their dogs would look different (large circular eyes and a pronounced stop which causes shallow-er eye sockets that the tear gland struggles to fit in).

[@Pausha]

I'm so glad that more vetenary professionals are speaking out about this issue. Strugling to breathe or walk IS NOT CUTE OR BEAUTIFUL. Intentionally breeding extreme features is just as bad as cropping, docking, declawing etc. We need to stop all these practices and let our companion animals just be normal and healthy. Just my opinion.

[@Finkeldinken]

Thank you so much for speaking out for the huge number of suffering companion animals out there. Legislation in that area must be quite a jungle, and I personally always think that it is a real flaw when this kind of legislation starts out very narrow and super specific, with no in-built wiggle room, so I would not be all in on that bill either. I am very much in on finding a way to educate the public about "cruelty in pet design" and for some kind of "whip" to the butts of the breed associations where they will need to disclose these issues clearly and with good sources, so prospective owners get the whole story, when they search. I also wish that national vet associations generally would be more up front about specifically harmful bred-for looks, as the research emerges. The world's breeders and breed associations have had DECADES to pull their heads out of... let's say "the sand"...and rectify these atrocities, so I do think it is only fair to the animals to start being way more strict. There has to be a good way to go about this - and for the life of me, I never could understand why the breeding associations and breeders haven't been doing targeted work with phd students at the very least, for all that time. And then again, as the caretaker of two rescue rabbits - one brachycephalic with the classic ear issues that often follow, but fortunately no eye and tooth problems - I am a little envious that dogs at least have a good body of research to go from! All the best, and while I do agree with your self criticisms here as you react, you still did a good thing trying to speak out on behalf of animals that you know suffer, and I think you did it well. I would have hoped that the people involved would have at least given you participants a little pamphlet on what to expect when testifying; I suspect that would have done a world of difference both for your wellbeing being in the red chair, and for maximizing the usefulness of your answers in regards to any legislation being worked on. Thank you again. That will always be praiseworthy imo! ❤

[@sango182]

As a future Vet Tech I love the idea of going into more detail about the diseases they can suffer from.

[@solstice3190]

Dog groomer here! I love that us here in this small community are fighting on this topic and that a lot of us who work with dogs realize that there IS an issue. Grooming brachycephalic dogs is also an experience and trying to wash their faces basically feels like we’re waterboarding them because they can barely breathe as it is so then they start freaking out and flailing around. I’ve worked at a couple of daycares as well and most of them require brachy breeds to be put up during summer because I live in a beach town and the weather is definitely very warm. Never this issue with other dogs! Good video!

[@xekis]

My sister had a boston x rat terrier. His muzzle was square rather than smushed. I thought it looked much better in addition to being better for the dog.

[@shadowjewel]

I think the biggest hurdle for many people on this topic is emotional; they don't want this to be as bad as it is because then that means that this thing they've enjoyed, found cute, loved, or made money from is a source of suffering for innocent lives that many of these people have loved. Peer pressure I think is also a problem as these breeders and lovers of these breeds are also going to be associating with other people who are fans of them. The breed standards issue is the official stamp on that peer pressure factor, making it even worse.

[@YSLRD]

In my lifetime, it has greatly worsened. As a kid, my dog breed book said French bulldogs were healthy dogs with square faces.

[@LizbetPCB]

It would have been pretty strange if you weren’t nervous. When I have to speak publicly, even in front of a small group of people I’m acquainted with, I get the ‘voice wobbles’. it doesn’t matter how much I prep, or how confident I am, and what I’m saying, it’s just the way it works out. You did just fine and the fact that you did it is enough to shore up your confidence. I know you’ll keep speaking up for the ones who can’t. Thank you, Doc! Edited to add, I appreciate you mentioning cats, too!

[@midnighthope6029]

the people arguing that these dogs are healthy are the people selling these dogs. veterinarians- who are actually qualified animal doctors, unlike breeders- have nothing to gain or lose from making people aware of their health issues.

[@Smithpolly]

Not necessarily. I mean, presumably, there are unscrupulous vets and an unhealthy dog has a lot more money making potential than a healthy one.

[@lupine.spirit161]

I cannot be around extreme brachycephalic dogs. I love dogs but the constant breathing noises that to me clearly show how hard it is to breathe for these dogs make me feel short of breath as well. And it breaks my heart how anyone who knows „normal“ dog behavior can see how these animals suffer. and when it’s just a tiny bit too warm they can barely regulate their temperature, causing them to almost hyperventilate, the eyes bulging, the nose dried up, skin rashes in the folds. It breaks my heart when I look at them and then to see people laugh at them literally choking for air or saying how „happy“. they look with their „smile“ when all I can see in the dogs face is defeated agony. I heard so many stories of vets and vet techs that do surgery on brachycephalic dogs who say that the dogs don’t want the air tube to be pulled. And when I imagine the horror of getting the one thing taken away that made you able to breathe properly for the first time on your life…that must feel utterly defeating for them

[@Sarena05]

The breeding of brachycephalic dogs is banned in the Netherlands. The question about enforcement of the bill is a valid one, that’s what the Netherlands is currently dealing with. Too many dogs are still being bred illegally or being imported from neighbouring countries where’s it’s legal to breed them. I agree with this ban, but it’s not easy banning the most popular dog breeds in the world. One country (or state) has to take the first step but it won’t be enough if others don’t follow. We can only help brachycephalic dogs if everyone bans them.

[@MythicMoonlight]

Thank you for what you do, we ended up with a french bulldog from someone who couldn't care for her anymore and the sounds she makes when she gets super stressed is so awful. We've started to try taking her on walks to keep her weight down, but otherwise we don't make her do anything she doesn't want to do to never stress or push her breathing. She already snores when awake when she's laying down. I can't believe people are fine with pushing this for greed

[@Mmmmagz]

As a prevet, I enjoy all of your content! You are definitely one of my role models in this profession 🎉

[@DVMCellini]

That is incredible to hear thank you!

[@anastasijahabarova1533]

I worked as a veterinary assistant for a year and a half. Brachycephalic dog breeds are firmly on my list of breeds I’ll never own. I’ve seen ones that were backyard bred, ones that were “professionally” bred, ones that participated in dog shows, and ones that were strays rescued from other countries. They’re all equally dysfunctional and should not have been born that way. They have breathing issues, skin issues, and eye issues, all because of a squished in muzzle. The fact that French Bulldogs are currently the US number one favorite breed is extremely sad and makes me angry at all the people who favor this breed. There is absolutely no way anyone who knows how brachycephaly affects animals and has empathy for them would support the continuation of breeds with this trait. People need to be educated on the matter, people need to realize how messed up this is and feel that same sadness and anger overtake the “aww but it’s so cute” feeling. And those incapable of empathy should not own any animals.

[@BlackReshiram]

just spread the "the frenchie problem" video to almost all discord servers im in. no idea if i get strikes in some of them bc not all of them are about this sort of thing but spreading awareness is important to me so im taking the risk. thank you for doing this insanely important work.

[@thedot66]

WE DONT NEED BREEDERS. Unless the goal is a very healthy, good tempered intelligent working dog like for police work. Otherwise there is a dog for anyone elses needs in a shelter somewhere

[@paintbrush3554]

Not necessarily true. Breeders are needed to some extent because people with different lifestyles mesh well with certain breeds. Thats where MOST breeds originated from. Not aesthetic but function. For example sporting dogs and fantastic for extremely active people who do alot of outdoor activities, working and shepard dogs are highly intelligent and aid well in certain task, some people prefer dogs who are loyal to just their families and not with outsiders, some want breeds with minimal needs, depending on your living situation or certain allergies etc etc. There are good reasons for different breeds to exist as pets as long as those breeds are healthy and allowed for some crossbreeding for genetic diversity. Not every person and every family can have just any breed with a Russian roulette of unpredictable traits. This is why some of us prefer a specific breed (even though I do agree more people should also adopt) but breeders and breeds are still important. Anyone whose studied different dog breeds and their origins know that not all if even most breeds are unhealthy like the few that have been bread simply for appearance. Most dog breeds where bred with physical and mental abilities as a focus and are healthier.

[@FukaiKokoro]

Shelter dogs arent for everyone. I have a hot take; the adopt don't shop movement has become a animal hoarding cult. It's literally easier to adopt a human child than some shelters and places

[@csp.9203]

​@@paintbrush3554I've said many times before, on the continuum of dead, suffering animals and people getting what they want, there is only one moral side and it isn't the latter

[@Shadowfate93]

Shelters full of pitbulls. No thank you

[@gypsylee333]

Liesssss it's always filled with nothing but demon shitbulls at the shelters.

[@microgardenmom]

I have always wondered why the AKC doesn't just change the breed standard to require slightly longer muzzles in order to get closer to what the breeds originally looked like. It would be more humane and we wouldn't have to be talking about banning breeds. You would think that a large group of dog lovers such as the AKC would be at the head of such a push to help dogs. Kind of sad that it might take legislation to get people to think about the health and well-being of their dogs. While it may require an infusion of other breeds at this point, I think it's worth trying to just breed the pure-bred dogs with the longest muzzles. This would likely increase the average muzzle length after a few generations.

[@dwp6471]

It seems like when I was a kid these dogs faces were not flat the way they are now. As a reference point I am 70. My grandparents had a bulldog and she was not flat faced. She had a muzzle she was happy and very active and didn't have breathing problems. She raised us grandkids, went hiking with us, ran all over the place with us. We lived on high altitude. Seems like breeders have made the dogs more and more extreme.

[@gailmckay5551]

I am so glad someone is standing up to this practice of creating animals that suffer from horrible health problems because people like the way they look. Its such a horrible cruel thing to do.

[@Kat09tails]

You were really close to communicating things well: The AKC and UKC are closed studbooks. Meaning what's there is there, you can't borrow a less extreme gene from somewhere else like you can with some livestock studbooks and eventually get back to registered purebred. You can't breed a healthy hearted cavalier because there is literally no where to go to find the genes inside these breed clubs because they're that freaking inbred with no where to bring healthy genes in from. Breeders have incentives both financial and socially to stick their head in the sand and pretend a problem isn't really a problem. I used to raise papillons and saw first hand the kicking screaming and nonsense that came to acknowledging Neuroaxonal dystrophy as 1) existing and 2) being a possibility in their lines. We now have a marker but the process to getting breeders to acknowledge that they may produce critically ill puppies was so painful. There is also the fact that breeders pass on - on purpose what doesn't work out for show to the pet owning public and far too often wash their hands of any responsibility to what they produced. In AKC the standard has no points for health, health clearances, long life, or a normal ability to function in ambient temperatures. They will register anything, as long as it came from registered stock. So a blind, epileptic, dual merle gened dog with a COI north of 50% will gladly be registered without a second glance. The puppies of that dog can show and I can even point to a couple dogs who are double merle in shelties that are prominent sires because they will always produce merle puppies. It would also help you to speak to these reps in terms they can understand. They would understand that the dogs by design cannot breathe as well as a normal skulled dog. They would also understand that just because a product is old and traditional it can also be dysfunctional by design. This would probably go a lot further as a buyer protection law than the grey space of ethics.

[@confusedDruid]

23:26 to me, im not a math person so none of that really made much sense to me but what i think i got out of it was "you have a breed with a sample size of 100 that represents the entire breed perfectly (in theory). If only 20 out of the 80 dogs are suffering, no matter how well bred they are, why would you breed them? So you can breed for that 20% of healthy dogs while pretending the other 80% that are suffering arent your problem?"

[@crypto_radio9653]

This is awesome Dr. Cellini! Good for you for taking a stand, speaking about these issues, and opening yourself up to criticism. I think you did a good job. There’s always room for improvement and I love that you are reflecting back on how you did!

[@Spiid1000]

You kind of convinced me not to get a Frenchie. I always wanted one but had no idea the nose was actually a real problem.

[@Zaiqukaj]

It’s really hard to answer good or with the exact points you want when under pressure like this. I think you did a great job. I thought it was really cool how you were able to go over this and give us your self critique on how to improve. As someone who has a really hard time getting into conversations I also have a hard time perfectly timing when to talk. I feel ya man.

[@ericarichardson2983]

Why does the akc not change the breed standard in the face of such overwhelming evidence? As long as they continue to reward breeders for perpetuating standards that harm dogs

[@diejaykaynz3r078]

unbelievable how people prioritize (imo not pretty) aesthetics over the health of their "beloved" pets. makes it somewhat easy to identify those who see them as statussymbols 😕 its so sad

[@catherinelw9365]

In reality they are animal abuse enablers.

[@tonyclark5151]

Dog breeders could just outcross to a dog breed that may have a similar body type, but without having brachial disease or malformation. It would take at least 5 to 6 generations to attempt to rid the breed of it and then another 5 or 6 generations to strengthen the newer formed breed. Do you think that this would help?

[@someonerandome2000]

Unfortunately while it would likely help the health of the dogs, convincing AKC breeders of that would be a whole other saga. Just look at the LUA vs HUA Dalmatians and the tantrum that breeders threw when the “back cross” was introduced to try and get these dogs functioning kidneys 🤦‍♀️

[@FreesTylerFurYa]

The Norwegian Kennel Club together with the breed clubs are actually working on an ourcross project on the Norwegian Lundehund because they were so inbred with specific health problems, and no genetic diversity. The project is proving successful, so that should prove that outcrossing certainly works if done properly.

[@maryeckel9682]

Most breeds were developed that way to begin with, but these organizations are dead set against back crossing.

[@scrungles7853]

Awkward court interactions, truly a nightmare to be stuck in. That must've been hellish, lmao.

[@amusedBYfools]

AWARENESS. I wasnt even aware of this problem. I just thought they were ugly.

[@incineroar9933]

Awww, I like Bulldogs when they have their nose sticking out. I think it looks much better than the squished in look. Why would any dog with a nose like that be disqualified by the breed standard?

[@mmsanrio]

We are our own worst critics! You didn’t seem nervous at all!!! 😂😅 Seriously!

[@Aldersnap]

You did a great job! There is no way I would have been so patient haha

[@bettaaesthetics7791]

Thank YOU! My pug was a rescue dumped for being too large for the "breeding program" and he passed away from PDE at only 6yrs old. He had so many health issues, the poor guy wasn't able to live his life to the fullest. PDE apparently stands for "pug dog encephalitis". He got seizures that would happen 2-5 minutes apart. In his prime" he could over heat easily, he could barely catch his breath. Its especially painful because how playful he was yet being that playful could be dangerous for him. It was scary taking care of him because of his pushed in face and struggle with basic breathing. I hope one day they don't allow the breed to be bred brachycephalic standard its horrendous.

[@madgadgetss]

i would feel so stupid defending a practise like that. if they wanna make weird messed up dogs that struggle to do basic dog things so badly i think they should play hit video game wobbledogs

[@foxesofautumn]

I heartily agree Pugs (and similar breeds) should be banned. Not because I hate them (if I hated them I'd breed them) but because no animal deserves to suffer, especially for human taste.

[@Iflie]

I'm dutch and they just banned the breeding of the short snouts in cats and dogs and ears that also lead to bone issues. You can have a great dog, same personality just with a longer nose like they had in the past.

[@sharniek002]

I come from a family that used to breed dogs. Not short faced dogs, though. They bred rough collies, Bernese mountain dogs, and Tibetan mastiffs. They went to great pains to ensure they bred dogs without health issues, including getting xrays done to look for hip displaysia and not breeding dogs with it. Even they disagree with the breeding of dogs like pugs. The thought of breeding short faced dogs is insane even to us.

[@LimitedBones]

We owned a pug for 16 years and he had no health problems , which was a MIRACLE. If i were to ever own a brachy dog again i would adopt from a rescue rather than contribute to these breeds.

[@freshmantle1876]

You are lying your pug had many health issues

[@tugger]

sounds more like you maybe didnt take them for regular checkups and had no idea of their misery

[@Enne_esse]

There's no such thing as a pug with no health problems! They are bred to have breathing difficulties.

[@CoquiDeBoriken]

Man, a lot of people in the replies automatically assume things instead of asking first. I'll decide to ask. Did you take your dog to the vet regularly for checkups? Was there some difference between your pug and other pugs that allowed it to remain healthy? I am genuinely curious.

[@pryncecharming2133]

Was your dog a pure pug or a retro mop? Pure pugs are almost designed to have medical issues...which is sad.

[@googlychoo]

Have these people spent 5 minutes with a Frenchie?? You can hear them struggling to breathe. They are born with COPD. It is not comparable to hip dysplasia or joint problems with larger breeds that develop later in life.

[@annaheyward4874]

Thanks for posting this. I can only imagine what you cop from unhinged breeders.

[@fennelmaloney487]

Props to you, I live in NH and have testified at NH bill hearings and they are immensely stressful. I can't even imagine being questioned. You handled the entire time incredibly well, I've never shared a testimony where I wasn't violently shaking and stumbling over some of my words.

[@hollywoodshank]

proud to say my country banned their breeding (switzerland) its just sad how many overbreed animals there are and how many people dont see the cruelty i think maybe they dont see it bc the animals are seemingy 'happy' or 'lazy'

[@vivienleigh4640]

Thank you for trying to get these breed standards to change. If one thinks that legislation isn't necessary to solv this problem, you should at least try to show that there is a trend to work against this problem , this suffering. I hear people even say "That snoring is so cute". I don''t get how breathing difficulties can be cute. If you'd say the same thing about a human being, people would think you've lost it.

[@angelat247]

Thank you so much for testifying on this subject! I can't tell you how many conversations I've had with people where we discuss why it is even legal for people to continue to breed these dogs let alone ethical. I am so happy to see that something is finally being done about it and hopefully they will stop allowing this.

[@peachscentedskulls]

i mentioned this to a coworker once, and how cruel it was. turns out she had breeder-bought pug, (who, of course, had serious breathing problems). 🙄

[@injunsun]

Thanks for the info, doc, @DVMCellini. I have had a couple Bostons. The female was from an "oops" sibling-mating, with extreme brachycephaly. She died of complications when she should have been giving birth at age 6 to four pups from a teacup Chihuahua. The male died just a two years ago. He was not severely brachycephalic, as my late husband had selected a breeder here in East Tennessee specifically to find a Boston without the "no nose." He would rarely, barely snore a little. Just before age 12, he suddenly couldn't use his hind legs. He had had a seizure or two over his life, but those seemed transient. He could still extend his back legs, but couldn't walk, so I wheelbarrowed him to go potty outside. I thought maybe he would get better, as he seemed to for a couple weeks, but then, he got worse. The worst thing was, in the last two weeks (all of this from beginning to end was a month and a half), a horrific black growth protruded from his right eyeball, straight through the cornea. I assume some sort of cancer. He died a little over a month after his 12th birthday, in July of 2022. Meanwhile, my current husband and I inherited a rescue pug from his late mother. She has a fluid-filled thing on the side of her right knee,, and what I presume is a lipoma the size of a squished-a-bit large chicken egg under the skin over her right ribcage. Her face is medium between the worst you showed and the simply squared off. She has an underbite, so sometimes her lower incisors are showing. Last weird facts: Of all of my Bostons (2), Chihuahuas (2), and pug, they all have/had an odd number of nipples. The male Chihuahua referenced as the would-be father above, Max? He also had only one testicle. He lived to 18 years, 10 months. My dogs lived longer, when I could afford Nature's Recipe Sensitive Skin (allergy) formula (which is almost Vegan). Thanks for your content, doc. People need to know.

[@dorothybutterfield8428]

About time I have thought this for years people are selfish its all about what they want never mind the suffering of the dog it needs changing plus the indiscriminate breeding of dogs with genetic defects there by perpetuating the suffering for future generations .

[@durabelle]

This shows that many people would probably be happy to support bills like this if the bill itself was well formulated, and all the details really thought through by the time of these discussions. I'm from Finland where the situation with brachycephalic breeds is slightly better at the moment, although they're still way too popular to my liking. It could be better still, the Netherlands is possibly the best example at the moment, but Finland is definitely doing better on this front than the UK where I currently live. (Maybe partially because none of Finland's native dog breeds are brachycephalic, so there's no need to defend our own long traditions etc. Unlike in the UK, the home of the English Bulldog amongst some other fine examples of unnecessary suffering for "beauty".)

[@bakedpotato7746]

God bless anyone standing up against the cruel breeding practices ❤️ And everyone else too. I hope they realize how it is wrong and stop.

[@mmsanrio]

My ENT once told me something to the effect of God made sinuses & royally screwed up. 😂I’ve read that if we didn’t have empty space (some have more) then our 10 lb. heads would be too heavy. It is sad to think that Brachey dogs can’t get enough oxygen to their lungs. I have a Shih Tzu.

[@DM-ql6ps]

Part of why humans have sinus problems is because we (and to a lesser extent the other apes) evolved flat faces/lost the snout seen in earlier primates.

[@GilraenTook]

With the pekes, it's an appeal to tradition, which is another logical fallacy. Honestly, I think you did great, and hopefully the legislators take into account nerves, monetary gains (since the breeders have financial incentives to not change) and likely lack of experience into account when thinking about your testimony. Not everyone made their career from public speaking and being able to come up with answers to complicated questions on the fly.

[@kelly-bo-belly]

Having a Pomeranian has made me understand that this is an unethical breed. Their fur needs constant brushing to prevent mating. Their trachea and knee problems are a cruel price they must pay for you to have a tiny, fluffy dog. It hurts them to have mating be the default way their fur grows. Any dog that mats without your help, is an unethical breed to force into existence imo.

[@ivyrose779]

I don’t think that breeding for a fluffy coat is unethical as long as people understand the work that goes into keeping it healthy. Trachea and knee problems, on the other hand, should be bred out. Things like that are much more important than looks that are often focused on more.

[@michelleturner6865]

All dogs with hair mat if you don’t take care of them. They are not self grooming. Poms are east compared to Shih Tzus or Maltese etc. Bad knees can be prevented by not allowing the dog to jump on and off high places or race up and down stairs when it’s a puppy. Or getting fat after a spay or neuter. These are all part of having a toy dog.

[@Nylak-Otter]

I have trained a few American bulldogs that are very *mildly CORRECTLY* brachycephalic for a purpose. The angle of their muzzle allows them to grab and hold a large limb or thick neck of a boar with their face pressed against them and still be able to breathe, because their nose isn't buried in flesh and fur. These dogs were never in distress and had extremely high agility and endurance because they were bred for function rather than form, or I wouldn't have adopted, trained and resold them for this purpose. They're able to put boars at bay and hold them still for a humane kill shot with a crossbow, which is all I'm able to use for conservation culls. Just something to keep in mind that brachcephalia *IS* a useful malformation when managed responsibly and not overexaggerated for appearances. English bulldogs (and brachycephalic molossers) used to have this same purpose, but they've been functionally destroyed. Some working lines of American bulldogs do still work very well as hunting dogs.

[@DovidM]

What about Pomeranians? They are sometimes included among the brachycephalic breeds, and suffer from tracheal collapse.

[@meikahidenori]

Yes some people breed them yo have the tiniest muzzle possible. We owned quite a few over the years and only one had breathing difficulties because of how small her muzzle was (our others wouldn't be considered standards due to wider longer muzzles) and the poor dog couldn't breathe or cool down in the hot Australian summer even after a coat shave for the weather. Toy dogs don't need smaller muzzles or skulls. Skippikies & Hungarian mini spitz are also dogs that suffer from this issue with horrible breeders who think making a smaller mouth and nose is better. No... they are traditionally working dog breeds! Give them thier longer muzzles back!

[@FancyForestPerson]

I bought a Pug/Boston cross and she has way more of a snout than others. Bought her from a pet store, and at ten years old she’s still really healthy. Actually never had health problems. I encourage people to get mixed breeds. They are way healthier, and if you get a purebred cross, they will have a pretty predictable disposition.

[@janarosem]

When I was a kid, I was obsessed with dogs. I loved studying the various breeds and dreamed of one day "breeding & showing" dobermans in the AKC. When I finally got my first doberman as a kid, it marked the beginning of a rude awakening for me. I learned about genetics and how "responsibly breeding purebred dogs" was essentially glorified inbreeding. My love of dogs and desire to breed remained, however I refused to create genetically inferior animals with a laundry list of physical (as well as mental/behavioral/neurological!) disabilities. I love the "designer breed" movement and considered the idea of creating "super breeds" that were intentionally bred for maximum genetic hardiness, but I still struggled with the idea of playing into "doggie eugenics." I continued learning. I closely observed my own lived experiences and those of others. I matured and began to understand more about the benefits of humans meddling in animal genetics (it's literally how domestic animals came into existence after all) and I circled back to my dream of dog breeding. I am currently at a point where I have two frenchies with plans to breed them... Kinda wondering how I got here, but as I watch your videos, clarity is moving in. I am very much appreciating your videos and agree with everything you are speaking to (thank you for your work and for using your voice). I've always been a bit of a rebel and was never one to cow to social pressure or trends. I am mystified by how "good breeders" can claim they breed for "health first" while scrambling to maintain unhealthy deformaties from breed standards - or worse yet, justifying line breeding as a health practice. It's selfish, ego driven and delusional.. While I certainly appreciate cuteness and aesthetics of animals, I have no concern for breed standards whatsoever - especially if they negatively impact the breed in any way. My intentions are to TRULY improve this fantastic, loveable companion animal by working to breed out as many genetic health issues I can. Starting with BOAS, IVDD, skin/allergy and eye issues. I was troubled to see that IVDD is now just written off in genetic testing because it is simply an expectation for this breed. And I'm shocked that OFA makes no mention of soft palette or nares screenings!? I am still studying & learning, but my goal is to balance genetic hardiness (introducing more diverse genetics including cross breeding) with maintaining all the positive qualities that we love so much about our sweet frenchies!

[@seacaptainminto7169]

I am an advocate for breeding breeds ethically and I STAND behind banning backyard breeding. They're the reason why bachy dogs have such a hard time breathing and only add to the shelter population. Dogs who breed for show and work do NOT normally add to the shelter or these health issues because of the health testing done beforehand. But with that said there still are people in dog shows who need to regulate the health better even in the industry

[@CoperliteConsumer]

Pug breeders are basically the Qu from "all tomorrows". 💀