I Was Wrong About the Horde

[@DIEGhostfish]

I miss the Horde having more down to earth moments of trying to survive without resorting to another massive war.

[@Jediwarlock]

Agreed! :)

[@Eyevou]

Garrosh really went and screwed it all up for everyone.

[@infinite_rooster]

The algorithm gods have blessed this channel. Nice to see you pop off.

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha thank you! It certainly seems that way! :)

[@connorquinn7193]

Feels life forever since the algorithm actually gave me a new wow channel to watch

[@EbonyGerm]

"Pulling the trigger" means to commit to an action and is a fitting phrase for your choice to finally dive in to the Horde side of things. "Pulling the ripcord" is a metaphor alluding to a parachute, that I believe the player community came up with during Shadowlands. It is a phrase expressing the community's dire wish to be saved from the inevitable demise of their desire to play and by extension the game itself, if things did not abruptly change to a more favorable state - akin to free-falling from the sky, able to see the ground getting closer and feeling that impending finality, unless the ripcord is pulled and the emergency parachute deployed.

[@Jediwarlock]

Good point! Thank you for those details. :)

[@stephenhenderson7546]

please do more warcraft lore videos they are amazing and I love learning more about it, thank you!

[@Jediwarlock]

I have so many ideas on my Future Videos list!! Not to worry, I'm sure lore videos will be added sometime! :)

[@danieldors1075]

Nice video! I kinda felt the same experience only after I was doing exactly what you did: To actually take it slowly and level reading all quest texts, run all dungeons and track what npcs would say and do. This allowed me to enjoy and see the Horde's viewpoint and understand their situation. To me is very nice to know not everything is nice on Alliance and there are more than a few rotten apples. In fact, there are tons of characters and actions that are very questionable but sold to us as "well, we had to do this because they are the bad guys". And this was not only when they felt endangered by invading aliens… Anyway, great work. Look forward to see how your channel progresses. Don't give up!

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the input Daniel! I appreciate it :)

[@Thbrotatos]

I’m a horde only guy it’s crazy to hear someone say they thought the horde were bad guy bots 😂

[@Jediwarlock]

Oh my XD

[@jay18001]

It's so strange, I've always mained on the horde side. My first ever char back in 2007 was a Tauren Hunter and I was hooked. I've never heard any Horde players say the same about the Alliance. I think because they're immediately perceived as the bad guys because of their name. If you don't play them you keep that idea.

[@IVPixel]

They literally were the bad guys until blizzard started the whole "pls empathize with the horde guys pls green jesus is cool and not obnoxious at all, he made a horde that isn't a bunch of violent apes he's REALLY cool :^( and make sure to ignore that they invaded azeroth after ruining their home planet because of their own stupidity and then started doing the same thing to azeroth and attacked the high elves and tried to basically genocide them and then those idiots joined them lmao" inb4 but it's all gul'dan's fault and da demons'

[@theoran7968]

@@IVPixel This isn't true at all though. Humans violated (Kul Tiras specifically) the peace declaration by refusing the Orcs as autonomous and not part of the legion and actively hunting them. Even as an Alliance main I know that. If you can see the Night Elves as "good" and not the same as the supremacist Highborne of the Kaldorei Empire (You know? The ones lead by Queen Azshara that attempted to use The Well of Eternity to summon The Legion in order to kill off all the other races. Which their defeat tore the world apart separating all the continents and creating The Maelstrom) You should be able to accept the Orcs were enslaved and are no longer ruled by The Legion after The Second War. Heck if we are to truly think of anyone as "evil" it would be The Old Gods (and thus The Black Dragonflight, and Twilight Hammer cult) followed by Sargeras and The Legion. It was from the influence of The Old Gods that the peace talks between Thrall and Varian were disrupted by the Twilight Hammer attack, and the abduction of Varian was due to the Defias which were also under the influence of The Black Dragonflight which are tainted by The Old Gods. Repeatedly we see that most of the conflict is due to xenophobia and misunderstanding.

[@itsjoebro1353]

@@theoran7968 I hear what you're saying but can you really blame the Kul Tirans for refusing the declation tho? If a random race invaded your home, killed many of your people and then suddenly said "We're sorry, we were just controlled by a demon who made us do what we do and we're good people." would you really decide on the spot they're cool? I also woudn't dare to say the horde is "good." They are a race that invaded Azeroth solely to plunder, kill and enslave other races for their souls; which btw, they weren't controlled back then, just hungry for blood because of the demon's blood they drank on their own will. You're right about the NE part and queen Azshara, but she's not the only NE leader back then was she? I don't remember who it was atm but there were a few NE leaders/figures who didn't agree with what she was doing, didn't follow her leadership and thus leaving the highborne. My memory is faded because it was ages ago when I read about the lore but I'm 100% certain that Azshara wasn't considered a "good" leader among the alliance/NE and the horde are still considered to be the invaders/bad guys.

[@icelevel2437]

I'm in the exact same situation as you used to be. 15 years of playing WoW and I've still yet to level any Horde character past level 20. I can't leave my Dwarves behind!

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, thank you for sharing! Your Ironforge loyalty is admirable :D

[@syphamiku]

My mom got me into WoW and so I started by playing what she did, a human priest. It was super boring but I never stopped playing the "pretty" races. Then I decided that I wanted to unlock the allied races in the horde which made me lvl a horde character to max. I like the horde much better now but unfortunately I can't play with my parents anymore.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for sharing your story, I appreciate it! :) My dad is the one who got me into WoW and is probably the reason I am so invested in it all these years later.

[@Hypnotically_Caucasian]

I watched my mom play the Warcraft III demo on a Saliva CD before it released before we started playing WoW. I grew up on that and LOTR

[@theoutlander1411]

I like your videos, they're the type of videos I've thought of making since I started playing WOW Classic a year ago (never played the games when they came out either). My experience was the exact opposite of yours though! I knew only the lore from the RTS games and wanted to play a Blood Elf due to their campaign in WC3 and wanted to do most of the quests in the Eastern Kingdoms. I made a Warlock and much to my surprise, I got to do a lot of evil stuff with the Forsaken. I then made an Alliance character to see the other part of the story, even though I found most of the races boring, and I was pleasantly surprised. Whereas the Horde had a lot of high and low moments, the Alliance questing was just okay most of the time, though it did have a vibe of "this is our home and we're going to defend it!" even when it wasn't their home, which I found kind of fun. I'm team Alliance now, though the Eastern Horde is really cool and Forsaken/Belfs are good Horde choices for people wanting to go Horde (just don't be that Undead Rogue that ganks people in Elwynn!)

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the thoughtful comment! :) I enjoyed reading your thoughts and I can definitely see where you are coming from!

[@recon44]

If there is anything that made me want to check out the horde, it's the music they made in MoP for the dominance offensive that also plays in Orgrimmar sometimes.

[@Jediwarlock]

I'll have to check that out! :)

[@recon44]

@@Jediwarlock kzbin.info/www/bejne/lZurnZ5pitqVaM0

[@bushpilot223]

I’m glad your channel is getting traction dude. This is quality content! Can’t wait for more, keep up the good work!

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you very much! :)

[@ayzannah9885]

I grew into it via Warcraft 2 and 3 (insert me waving a cane and making some comments about you youngsters today) and when I went into WoW I was so completely dead set on wanting to dive into the blood elf story that I didn't even consider anything else. So, I went Horde by default. And I'll say, it offers up a lot of conondrums and food for thought for someone like me, who likes to explore, dive into the lore and do some roleplaying. On the one hand, you often are in a desperate survival situation. But when do you go too far? In my head, my character turned renegade and deserted from the Horde at the invasion of Pandaria, and the burning of Teldrassil. But... the safety of my character's nation, a tenacious remnant of its former glory, is often utterly dependent on the Horde. So... yea. It certainly has offered kindling for thoughts and conversations over the years. It was really interesting to hear your thoughts here!

[@Jediwarlock]

Thanks! I enjoyed reading your comment... blood elves definitely have a wild journey through the Warcraft universe especially with them joining the Horde and whatnot :)

[@dankleburgh]

Hey man. I'm a horde only player. I've always unironically seen the alliance as 'just as' bad as the horde on moral standings, if not worse in many cases. In my headcanon, Thralls horde was a save haven for outcast races, people suffering prejudice or similar injustice. My vision of the horde were misunderstood peoples who stuck together to survive in a world that did not want them, and couldn't seperate the past from the present situation they were in.

[@Jediwarlock]

That's a good point! The New Horde definitely has a lot of those elements and there is definitely prejudice against them by the Alliance...

[@WolfeRavenwood]

How can you play this game without feeling the need to be a tauren? You MONSTER. May the earthmother guide you to the right path.

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, perhaps someday I’ll be able to make that happen! I haven’t ever rolled Druid before so that would be a good opportunity for me to try them out :)

[@NotBamOrBing]

Cos he's got good taste clearly

[@harryjenkinson9558]

Great video dude, just binged your WoW rocks videos too :)

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you Harry! That means a lot to me. :)

[@AmandaSchnaare]

I was the exact opposite. I started as horde. After years, I made an alliance. I always viewed the Alliance as entitled snobs. I didn't understand their struggle and why they were the way they were. It really was eye opening. Since then, I advocate for everyone to have a toon on each faction. Even make a Panda, so you can understand their view too.

[@Jediwarlock]

What a great way to approach the game! :) I like that a lot... I definitely am glad I've chosen to level on both factions!

[@MSinistrari]

My main and most of my roster's Horde. I love horror movies so making a Forsaken was exactly my thing. It's only been a few years past that I finally decided to make some Alliance toons just to see their side of things. For the most part it's been kinda so-so, but then there's absolute gems like Darkshire.

[@Jkend199]

The horde are not the "Bad Guys" the Alliance are not the "Good Guys" WoW (Classic WoW anyway) was not so black and white... That was a big part of what made it so special. All the factions had their reasons for doing what they did, their own motivations and every faction had both selfless and virtuous hero's and selfish and self-serving villains... This is why latter expansions became unplayable... When the game ran out of "Villains" they started making characters like Garrosh into villains... If you played warcraft 2 you know the story of Grom Hellscream. He was one of the ones seduced by the burning legion who brought the curse of the Fel Blood and turned the Maghar into the fel orcs of the first horde. But in the second war his noble sacrifice and redemption was what ultimately freed the orcish race from the fel corruption. Grom was a hero... Garrosh should have been one too, he should have been Thralls right hand and next in line for Warchief... When Thrall deserted the horde and Garrosh became a villain completely against their established character arcs for me that was it, I lost all interest in WoW, the story just fell apart and became the mindless Alliance good Horde bad, that was what killed WoW for me.

[@Jediwarlock]

I agree with your thoughts! Thank you for sharing those details :)

[@jay18001]

Alliance = Established historical nations and alliances formed together as a cohesive civilisation Horde = Rag-tag group of underdog races, banding together to right the wrongs in their past

[@Jediwarlock]

What an excellent way of putting that! I love the broader narratives of each faction as well; the Alliance's struggles are mostly about the "falls" of civilization: civil war, corruption, etc. while the Horde is very much a tale about the "rise" of finding one's place in the world while dealing with adversity. Of course referring mainly to the Classic storylines... nowadays both factions are so blended in their themes and such you could say the same about the other side quite easily.

[@entetament3567]

how about you pay the stonemasons

[@kearugrenn2334]

As a horde only player, I can appreciate the balanced view. When I started I was alliance and was actually scoffed at when I wanted to be a goblin. At the end of the day (for the most part) our toons are quite literally doing the same quests, so to say one is better is to fall to preconceived prejudice. Is that not though how War gains momentum in the first place?

[@Jediwarlock]

You make some good points! :)

[@bumbuyman]

There was 2 main paths into wow. Through warcraft 3, which would make you inclined to start as Horde, or through runescape, which would make you inclined to start as Alliance. This immediately created a divide in both age of the players and the approach to others. Horde players were on average 2-3 years older, and had a greater sense of comradery. Alliance players were much less serious about the game, and often clashed with each other. It was much more apparent in the early days of wow, but you can still see remnants of it today, especially when classic first launched.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for your thoughts! That is interesting to hear, and makes a lot of sense! :)

[@simonbehrendt-n4w]

Horde player: Name that fits right into their races cultural conventions. Alliance player: Xxxlegolasxxx Thats how it was

[@filthiman]

Whenever someone says "the horde are the bad guys" It's clear they didn't play WC3 and the frozen throne

[@Jediwarlock]

That sums up my switch to being more neutral pretty nicely XD

[@colonelsanders82]

Mind you, the Horde of Warcraft 3 did not include any Undead. The Forsaken are... Not particularly nice. They just happen to be a step above the literal Scourge, or the Burning Legion. There's a reason why Undead Players start with the rest of the horde factions as "Neutral" rather than "Friendly," and vice versa.

[@savedbygrace1582]

Once Horde, and always Horde. For the Horde!

[@Jediwarlock]

Lok'tar ogar!

[@MrTwistedLizard]

Not gonna lie Alliance main all the way (save for the odd Tauren. Do no harm but take no s*** love those guys) But even as the stoutest "Admiral Proudmoore did nothing wrong" Ally. I kinda dislike how the horde got railroaded into the "Bad guys" by the writers with 2 War-chiefs turning into Sociopaths and the 1 decent replacement for green jesus only getting one expansion before being killed off.

[@Jediwarlock]

Very good points! :)

[@DIEGhostfish]

Getting one expansion we didn't interact with him bar like twice.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

I am glad you finally see the light. Despite Blizzard's loving to throw the Horde under the bus every time they need a faction conflict plot point, the Horde aren't the bad guys and the Alliance aren't the good guys; they are both nuanced and complex with layers of grey morality. Honor vs Valor, Ideals vs Survival, Unity vs Freedom both factions embody different virtues and both have their dark sides as well; The multiple times the Alliance have inflicted genocide on the Blood Elves wasn't exactly "good guy" things to do, neither was Stormwind failing to protect its own people leading to the formation of the Defias Brotherhood. I don't even need to bring up the Horde's sins as ham-fisted writing in various expansions make that apparent. Both have good and bad to them

[@Jediwarlock]

I love the thoughts, Nerd Beast! I definitely agree with those points :)

[@IVPixel]

"Alliance have inflicted genocide on the Blood Elves" Explain

[@maruraba1478]

@@IVPixel play Warcraft 3. The alliance is extremely racist, still are in many ways. The drakthyr intro has them getting berated by the alliance townsfolk (similar to DKs) while the horde is just curious of the new race joining their hodgepodge faction, considering the Horde has zombies and foxes, dragons arnt too strange, and are accepted. The alliance is built on exclusion, why weren’t the Blood Elves allowed into the alliance?

[@IVPixel]

@@maruraba1478 provide an example besides muh garithos who is literally one dude who was clearly overwhelmed by the entire situation. Dks get spat on and have rotten fruits thrown at them while walking through orgrimmar so that's a bad example. Besides the horde literally tried to genocide the high elves and most likely would've succeeded if it wasn't for human intervention and let's not forget that the horde named orgrimmar after the guy that led the attack agains the elves. I haven't played dragonshite and most likely never will, the dracthyr are ugly as shit and shouldn't even exist just like void elves and night borne. Blizzard has lost the plot with the story past vanilla. I'm gonna go play turtle wow now where things make sense. Simple as.

[@Grimfang999]

@@maruraba1478 Yeah, the undead were also rejected despite immediately trying to work with the Alliance since most of them were former humans and High Elves and had families but were rejected out of fear and spite. I will be fair and say the undead were the result of mass invasions by Arthas and the Blood Elves had gotten addicted to Fel Magic, but the Alliance could have tacitly worked to help remediate the problem. Frankly, it's a miracle they even accepted the Worgen, and that is probably only because the Night Elves were involved because they knew how to remediate the Worgen curse, while for some reason Sylvannas thought the best idea was to just kill all the Gilneans rather than appeal to the fact that they have been cursed just as Lorderon had with undeath, and their situations made them natural allies. Aside from the Worgen, the Alliance only accepts groups which don't have many internal problems to begin with. The Horde accepts all factions who seek redemption and improvement, and see strength in diversity of opinion and values. This has caused issues most certainly, and has been a struggle to maintain at times when the warchief was a supremacist obsessed with the old ways of the Orcs (Garrosh) or seeking extreme liberalisation through destruction (Sylvannas), but at the heart of it all the Horde are a faction which is constantly seeking new ways to improve themselves and those around them, and under the guidance and leadership of the peaceful and wise Taurens there is nowhere to go but up for them from here.

[@maizamalta]

for the Horde!

[@Jediwarlock]

YES! :D

[@machomandalf2893]

Relatable. I was like “horde bad.” Now I pretty much exclusively play horde.

[@Jediwarlock]

There are a lot of good experiences to be had on Horde! :D

[@runevandromme440]

This video changed my life. My entire view of everything that exists in this world, in fact, even in the entire universe. I can never look at anything I know the same way again. This video represents emotions that most humans could never understand. But I can. Thanks to this video I was awakened to many things previously considered unimaginable. Thank you for this exquisite video, I will never forget this experience!

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you XD

[@Mana_Bunz]

I warms my heart to have an Alliance main fall in love with the faction that has always felt like home. Being a weird kid and a strange girl, I always felt accepted by the "freaks and geeks" of the Horde. As a Tauren druid since 2006, I've reveled through role play in finding neutrality between the factions. There are bigger problems than yuppie humans and savage orcs out there. ;) I love these videos a lot.

[@Jediwarlock]

I'm glad you enjoyed this! :D

[@Randall_Kildare]

Horde True here. I ALWAYS felt like the Blood Elves should have been in the Allicance, & the Horde should've gotten OGRES instead. But... shit ain't like that, & so on... From the Horde perspective, our journey is one more of Frazetta/Howard Fantasy, juxtaposed to the Alliance Tolkien Fantasy. Brutish & violent. Man...ahem... ORC against the world: a Savage world, an unwelcoming world; where survival is only possible through perseverance & strength. Our unity grants us safe haven in a few enclaves around the vast world, but alone we wander into lands where we are seen as invaders, monsters, or food.

[@Jediwarlock]

I love those thoughts! :D

[@Randall_Kildare]

@@Jediwarlock Aie, I love your videos & your passion for the game. Thanks man!

[@WrynnCZ]

You did right thing and you did it awesomely. My story is oposite to yours. I played horde for my whole life and recently I give it try on alliance side. Even from the horde perspective, it was obvious that old kingdoms were rotten from inside. Horde (as we know it in WoW under Thrall) are saviours and not villains. Cheers from Czech republic. 💚✌

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the comment! I like your story. :)

[@Autumn_Carolina]

always For The Horde!!

[@Jediwarlock]

Lok'tar! :)

[@crayonchomper1180]

the highest-level character I ever had was an Orc Shaman, I stopped playing at Cata, so I only ever got to 85

[@Jediwarlock]

Still quite the accomplishment! :)

[@DeathComesQuick666]

Until pretty recently i hadnt completed an alliance character in oldworld content through wotlk. I had made plenty in the past, i just always found myself in the same hole with alliance characters: none of the questing zones were interesting. Maybe its something about the aesthetic of the horde, or maybe its just the typical types of zones you are presented on their side; im not sure. But going to the next zone as a horde character is exciting and full of promise, but when it comes to alliance it felt more like a chore.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the thoughts! It's been fun to read everybody's thoughts on this topic :)

[@kuronanestimare]

I used to be a Horde Major, with a few Alliance here and there (mostly Humans, before Blizzard removed the Diplomacy racial) and while I knew the Alliance had more of the Pretty races, I liked Undead and Orcs a lot as a kid... Orcs because Honor and thematic zones, Undead because the bones looked kinda cool poking out of outfits. Ironically though, I was an Altoholic who ended up deleting all but one of my characters at some point in the past just because I got bored of them and wanted to make them a different race (but Race Swapping wasn't a thing yet, or they were low level) I only started playing Alliance about a year ago when a friend brought me back in and I began Faction Swapping my characters. Now the only Horde I have are a Pandaren Monk (Wanted to hit Level Cap on MoP Remix and I just barely managed it) and a Mag'har Orc Hunter (that +10% Pet HP is Poggers, saved my pets bacon quite a few times when leveling through TWW) Everything else is Alliance now... and I do appreciate seeing a lot more of the attractive races, though some part of me still wants to be an Orc... 'For the Alliance!' just doesn't have that guttural and primal feeling that 'For the Horde!' does.

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, I like those thoughts! Horde has some great moments too even though I'm an Alliance fan overall ;)

[@Kottery]

When I first started playing WoW back in TBC I played both factions leaning more towards Horde, then I played entirely Horde going into WotLK and Cata, then gravitated back to playing both in MoP through Legion, back once again to just Horde in BfA, and now since Shadowlands I only play Alliance. TBH, a lot of it is I don't like Orgrimmar (especially Cata onwards Orgrimmar), Thunder Bluff, or Undercity whereas Stormwind and Ironforge are peak city design and Darnassus is pretty. Also I love Alliance lore, their zones, and their races. Luv me humans, luv me elves, luv me dwarves, and LUV ME DRAENEI.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for your thoughts! :)

[@snorigtandlisa6372]

I literally have the same but opposite story because I wanted to be “bad” by playing in the horde

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, that's great! XD

[@taranbrat]

It's really nice to see a video pop and and talk about this in such a sweet way and not a typical blue post. I started wow when I was around 5 because my mom was trying out burning crusade and have been playing on an off since, i've always been a Hordie however i've always had a soft spot for Gnomes and Dwarfs, and the Draenei and Worgen starting zones. I always try to push people to try horde out because the story is a lot more personal focused and I think it touches a lot of the exclusionary practices that my friends and I went through in our pasts. I think a lot about the stories like the forsaken since they were forced into an existence they never chose and have to cary that burden with them as they try to carve out any meaning they can find. Stories like that really hit me and my friends in the lgbtq+ community and its why we have been stuck on horde for so long.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for sharing your story. :) I love hearing about how people can personally relate to the game and I really appreciate that!

[@raider762]

I played Warcraft 3 before I got into WOW back in 2008.

[@Jediwarlock]

That's probably the order I should have gone XD

[@bradygilbert78]

i’ve always mained alliance and even after giving horde a try, i still just prefer the alliance quests and characters

[@Jediwarlock]

I do too ;)

[@VexLooter]

I wish WoW had stuck with the Warcraft 3 factions, or, if it had gone factionless, it could have had something similar to Star Wars Galaxies.

[@Jediwarlock]

That could have been an interesting idea! :)

[@Supremed9]

Loa be wit ya mon

[@Jediwarlock]

Taz'dingo!

[@Hypnotically_Caucasian]

Alliance: -nelf gurlfriend -draenei gurlfriend -nice buildings Horde: -spiky buildings -more spiky buildings -war crimes -Green Jesus -undead Hillary Clinton aka Sylavanis Windrunne Commonalities: furries

[@Jediwarlock]

It’s hard to argue with this assessment XD

[@heavyd834]

You can’t say you’ve played horde if your first toon is a blood elf. Play vanilla horde then you can say you actually leveled a horde toon.

[@jameschristophercirujano6650]

I forgive Jediwarlock for the transgressions of Kid Jediwarlock.

[@Jediwarlock]

I gladly accept your forgiveness XD

[@aredub1847]

Yeah but lvl a forsaken though. but i loved my be lock i started about a year after bc came out, (quitting after raiding into naxx as a druid). i used a leveling guide and just pounded it out. johannas, if you know of it.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for sharing! :)

[@FloppyDiisk]

You had to roll a female blood elf to try horde lol

[@BlindMarksman]

That was the first thing jumped out at me too. Dude still hasn't actually played Horde.

[@Tea_Dawg]

I was playing with a girl last week and she asked me why I'm playing on the bad guys team.......

[@Jediwarlock]

Oh no XD maybe she needs to watch the video!

[@Guanjyn]

I've always felt like playing a human in RPGs was boring since I'm a human IRL.

[@Jediwarlock]

That is a very good point! XD

[@2yt4u.14.]

And? I am proud of the fact that i am a human. Virgin Race Changer against Chad Human Player

[@What-go8ng]

Jedi are you medical? Why is your icon a lego-man in surgical scrubs

[@Jediwarlock]

Oh yeah! My old icon, haha. I was Pre-Med in university for two years before switching to a different program. :)

[@BlindMarksman]

> Blood elf So you still haven't played Horde, them.

[@neme1361]

First of all, Horde didn't attack Azeroth, Burning Legion attacked it with its Demonic Orcs army because of Draenei Second, Majorities of Hordes are the main citizens of Azeroth, not Alliances, Trolls, Goblins, Taurens, both elvish races and last but not least Vulpera. Trolls are the first original races of Azeroth and are created by Azeroth herself, even elves evolved from Trolls. Humans, Gnomes, Dwarves, and Worgens are cursed versions of titan keepers' creations. If anyone wants to be honest and neutral, Horde is the Original faction of Azeroth.

[@Jediwarlock]

You make some good points! :)

[@morningbetterlast]

As a kid back in 2005 I couldn't understand why would anyone pick a human when you can be a gnome, an elf with glowing eyes or a freaking cow? That's why my toons went from Tauren druid to Orc shaman and then Undead warrior. Also rolled a NE hunter back in 2006, but couldn't really get into killing my horde soulmates, so abandoned it asap. And yeah, I've only played Horde and Forsaken back in WC3.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the comment! I've enjoyed hearing people's stories and faction choices and it's very interesting to hear the reasonings! :)

[@DrewPicklesTheDark]

I played both factions extensively. Garrosh was peak Horde, but overall Horde questing kind of sucked more.

[@Jediwarlock]

I agree. :)

[@exterminans]

You should have played Warcraft 3 when it first came out. Before playing WoW. Then you would have known from the beginning that the Horde is not "evil". The Orcs were my favorite in Wc3 so when WoW came out I naturally went for Horde. Alliance never appealed to me anyway because of how bland, uninspired and generic they are. They're also self-righteous pricks and hateful bigots in the lore. If you do Old Hillsbrad Foothills the Alliance guards all say "I was just following orders" when you kill them. Literal Nazis.

[@Jediwarlock]

Yes! I’m so sad I didn’t play WC3 before Covid… can’t believe it was that long before I experienced one of the classics!!

[@theoutlander1411]

I'd argue the Forsaken are evil though. They start of all "We're being persecuted because we're undead but we still have feelings!" and end up "Help me murder these peasants minding their own business and create a plague to turn more of them into undead, hell we might even use this plague on the Orcs when they aren't looking". The Orcs can't catch a break in lore it seems XD

[@DIEGhostfish]

I mean there are deliberate parallels, but the Orc camps are for the members and family of an invading mass murdering army. Not a people that lived with them for a ling time getting killed over accusations about being loansharks. Shit, they're closer to (but still far more justified than) FDR's camps than the German or Soviet camps.

[@jankxyard]

It's very common for people to jump to conclusion that Alliace is good and Horde is bad. Now knowing this, imagine how many people cannot see through MoP not being just a Disneyland xpac. Sure, first 2 zones are goofy, but the deeper you go, the darker and more ruthless it gets there. Speaking of Pandas... there's a guy called Samwise Didier, he used to be a concept artist for Warcraft. When people mention him, they always praise him that he is "that good old guy back when WoW used to be good". These same people complain that Pandas shouldn't have been added to the game. These are the same people who have no idea that Didier is the author of Pandaren and they are his most favourite race in WoW. His very first Pandaren drawing back in W3, that later became Chen and Lili. The reality is that an average consumer doesn't dig deep. Not saying it's good or bad, I cannot expect everyone to be a nerd like I am, but it's kinda worrying to know how most people just jump to conclusions from surface level info, then this majority dictates how world things should be.

[@Jediwarlock]

Love those details!

[@TheArtkaw]

More Warcraft content pleaaaase.

[@Jediwarlock]

For sure! :) I'm glad you are enjoying it!

[@joshuatunis6732]

Meh, only decent horde races are the Tauren, trolls, and goblins. Warlords of Draenor showed us that orcs are awful even without demon blood.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the comment! It's been interesting to see how different people feel about the factions... that is cool you enjoy the Goblins, I know they are not a fan favorite so that is cool to hear :)

[@DIEGhostfish]

The Orcs WERE shown a selectively edited vision that led to them thinking all the green Orcs were a slave army of Blackmoore's under his totally broken Thrall. Doesn't hustify the mass sacrifice for the portal, but I could see wanting to unite and invade under those circumstances.

[@shoddits2156]

You just got bewitched by that blood elf female and now fell on love with her 🙃

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, oh no! XD

[@shoddits2156]

@@Jediwarlock 😂😅

[@sdsdfdsfs9639]

always was bizarre to me that people just stuck with one side over the other. there's so many servers to make alts on..........

[@Jediwarlock]

True!

[@drewwil891]

Horde is way gunner imo

[@Jediwarlock]

Valid point XD

[@miloradinko]

i was the same as you, recently learned more about the horde lore and while it is an amazing story ogrimmar is just too ugly for me to consider seriously leveling a char there

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha I tried to steer clear as much as I could ;) Thunder Bluff and Undercity all the way!

[@jay18001]

How can you hate orgrimmar?? It's beautiful! (in classic)

[@rebekahc2707]

I've always mained horde since I was a teenager at the very beginning. I dabbled around with alliance but they always seemed so shallow to me even then. The only race I really like the story of on the alliance side is Worgen but as soon as I leave the starting zone I quit. These days the alliance players often seem immature to me and the story lines not much better.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the comment! All very good points :)

[@theoutlander1411]

I don't know what it's like on retail but in Classic I found Alliance to be the better PvE players and more welcoming of newer players to raids. Having said that, I have fonder memories of levelling as Horde than Alliance where stumbling across people out in the world created a companion that you'd level with at least for the next 5 levels. Alliance was a bit of an every man for himself outside of a guild situation.

[@ArgerasCZ]

I'm exact opposite to you, as kid that played and loved Warcraft 3, I could never imagine anyone playing alliance, in warcraft 3, human are stupid that basically caused rise of scourge, meanwhile you had nice story of Orcs and mainly Thrall being wise and peaceful and cool just trying to find new home, meeting and cool trolls and wise taurens (Cairn

[@Jediwarlock]

Thanks for sharing your story! :) Yes, the humans in W3 caused a lot of problems unfortunately. The Rexxar and Rokhan storyline was so epic!

[@nihlus9589]

I couldn't dissagree more. While you can make the case that some horde races are "just trying to survive" you can see the negative effects that the horde is bringing upon the world constantly. Examples: Forsaken open hatred of humans and destruction of Southshore, Forsaken invasion of Gilneas, Orc displacement and hostility towards centaurs and especially Quilboars, Orc exploitation of Ashenvale forest, The Horde breaking the truce with the Alliance countless times, etc.

[@Jediwarlock]

That is fair!

[@DrFunk-rk6yl]

As someone who has played both horde and alliance, the horde zones are some of the best in the game. The only good starting areas for the alliance are the night elf zones.

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for your input! It’s been fun to see what people’s experiences are with the different factions :)

[@DIEGhostfish]

I liked how Vanilla Alliance areas were part of an interconnected plot that doesn't pay out till Onyxia.

[@durt214]

I tried to give horde a go, but disliked the main parts of it. The only bearable ones were Trolls, Tauren and Blood elves. Not a fan of orc achitecture, it just seems off, even compared to orcs in other ip's. Plus their fall for demons, twice, was also quite annoying. Goblins are just, annoying, something like gnomes. And the forsaken. Oh the forsaken. Risen from the dead against their will. Most of them go insane and have to be killed again. Forced to fight against and kill their former family members. Living in a corrupted mockery of their former land of Lordaeron. Constantly producing bioweapons, testing it on anyone they can get their decaying claws on, even their horde allies. And let's not even mention Sylvannas. The only good part about her is when Garrosh called her a psychotic B back in Silverpine forrest. Add the bombing of Theramore, Thal'Darah grove and burning of Teldrassil, no thanks.

[@Jediwarlock]

You make some good points! :)

[@lazarzivkovic7563]

Alliance gave us Arthas, and through him, Sylvanas. Horde gave us Thrall, Vol'Jin and Lor'Themar Theron. Enough said. For the Horde!

[@Jediwarlock]

So true! :D

[@TeasLouise]

Throughout Kalimdor and The Eastern Kingdoms, the sheer amount of horde quests that have you carrying out purely abhorrent behaviour is just...smh Goblins and Forsaken have you either wiping out ancient forests or decimating all life with plagues. Destroying an entire village of women, men and little kids. The quests where you're actually being even slightly moral seem few and far between. Burying farmers up to their necks in dirt to knock their heads off. Meanwhile Ally are killing a bad pig that's getting in the pumpkins, or overpopulation of ravaging wolves, or undead who have been attacking travelers. I just cannot get past many of the horde quests. Felt like my heart was shriveling up. I did try.

[@Jediwarlock]

In Cataclysm they definitely added a lot of those really cruel Horde quests :o but there were signs all the way from Vanilla, I agree.

[@justinspivey8086]

Let’s not forget the world tree, the second attempted genocide by the orcs in 30 years! They are a menace to Azeroth at best The Tauren are homies however, we should let them in.

[@tengisulziisaikhan5421]

Talk about honor with orc dk, undead rogue and Stv campers! To hell with horde! For the Alliance!

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, thank you for the comment! It's been interesting to hear people's thoughts on this :)

[@justinspivey8086]

I was kinda warming up to the horde and then they abandoned our king and then burned down the world tree They are back on the shit list. The orcs are always one bad leader away from total anarchy (Guldan, Garrosh, sylvanas) who can convince them to do something truly unhinged for “honor”. (Great video tho! Also recently became a lore junkey so loving your stuff)

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you, and great details! They could've done ANY other plot contrivance for the Horde and decided on another bad ruler that splits the faction in half for... reasons? Idk

[@whirledpeaz5758]

To quote Sylvanas in the the BfA cinematic "FOR THE HORDE!!"

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, nice! :)

[@2yt4u.14.]

The Sylvanas that said the Horde is nothing xDDD. That nearly caused the destruction of Azeroth?

[@guilhermecorte8772]

dude, Alliance is blue and Horde is red. I've played enough games to know blue means good.

[@Jediwarlock]

Haha, it’s hard to argue with that logic XD

[@pawlik455]

in all respect but you talk about horde and couple seconds after in the beginning you say blood elf lol cmon

[@Jediwarlock]

Fair enough XD

[@psal8715]

To me, the only good thing about the Horde are the Blood Elves.

[@Jediwarlock]

Blood Elves are awesome :D

[@matthewasher3934]

Horde = Savages Alliance = Civilized End of discussion.

[@Jediwarlock]

It's been really interesting to see the discussion on this! Some people have been the complete opposite and it's been fun to see the differences ;)

[@sanderhaarsma1855]

Alliance civilized... really? Want to tak about how the nobles of Stormwind betrayed the workers who rebuilt the city which led them to form the Defias brotherhood? About how the alliance betrayed the high elves who helped them in the second war? About how Arthas betrayed his soldiers and Muradin even before he took up Frostmourne? About Kel'Thuzad? I could go on....

[@Tea_Dawg]

Except Jaina purged dalaran of blood elves and assassinated the zandalari king before they joined the horde. They also torture orcs for fun

[@theoutlander1411]

@@Tea_Dawg I think that's in retail, isn't there a point where the Blood Elves re-join the Horde and that's part of the narrative? In Classic the Blood Elves join the Horde because the Night Elves are spying on them (and attacking any citizen attempting to confront them) and posting a Dwarven Ambassador who is also spying on them while trying to get them to join the Alliance.

[@theoutlander1411]

If I had to come up with one word for each faction it would be Horde = Selfish Alliance = Arrogant. The problems between each faction stem from this. The Alliance believes they're the formal representative faction of every piece of land on Azeroth and that they can say what's going on, where, and with whom. The Horde believes, perhaps as a result, that they need to be everywhere at once and defend every square mile they have even in places they perhaps shouldn't be in (Such as the Badlands).

[@2yt4u.14.]

I only play Horde on PServer and still dont get the appeal. Playing a Human is so much cooler. Being a simple human fighting against hordes of enemies way bigger than you is so fckn cool. Humanity may not be the strongest but their sheer will power and knowledge in technology and the arcane are making them one of the most powerful on Azeroth. Also the imagination in being a pure noble knight is fckn cool. Instead of being a savage brute. Also the Cities are way better on Alliance. The only nice city on Horde is the Tauren City. Shadowmoon Valley also looked so nice. I love the castle like Cities like Stormwind and Ironforge. Horde Cities are always so barbaric and low iq. Humans dont have special powers or strenght. But they continue to fight and never give up and through this they managed to defeat the orcs and other enemies. Most conflicts could have been avoided if the Horde does not exist. us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/crimes-committed-by-each-race-and-faction/655679 here is a list that shows that the Horde literally caused the most destruction (In this list there are also war crimes commited by humans against other humans which do not count in a alliance vs horde debate)

[@Jediwarlock]

Thank you for the thoughtful comment! I agree... humans are the GOAT for me as well ;) I've just enjoyed trying out the other races in the game too :D