I will now talk about Problems with Video Game History Preservation for around 13 minutes.

[@BasementBrothers]

Thank you for bringing attention to this. Unfortunately, the Neo Geo scene is full of privately owned unreleased games.

[@evanb4466]

Yeah I bet there are over 25 protos out there in some private collection collecting dust

[@BasementBrothers]

@@evanb4466 There aren't 25 completely unreleased games, no. But there are too many that someone is just holding onto.The only ones that have actually seen the light of day so far are Ghostlop, Bang Bang Busters, the cartridge version of Ironclad, and SSVP. The last two were released by SNK themselves. For a console with a relatively small library, there is a surprising amount of unreleased games known to be owned by someone currently. There are quite a few alpha and beta versions of released games, and NeoTurfmasta and others have been kind of enough to share with everyone.

[@Voultar]

I really appreciate your views on this.

[@retroactivekev]

Great video on this topic! I couldn't agree more with everything you've said; we keep feeding the idea of preservation but it seems like more than half of the time nothing happens or people get ripped off. VGHF absolutely needs to start showing some progress on getting these materials out for public consumption before asking for large sums of money to random auctions that may not even work out to much of anything. This goes for everyone across the board, it isn't preservation as much as it is hoarding and scamming if nothing is ever seen outside of select few "elites".

[@Jenovi]

I think more people than you could imagine feel exactly this way.

[@ExtremeWreck]

To call them elites would mean that they're smart people. No they're not, they're dumb people. Most of them are likely incels that only play League of Legends as well.

[@WrestlingWithGaming]

This is a really good topic for discussion and a problem facing the preservation community without a clean and easy solution. It wouldn't surprise me if Frank himself was on the fence about sharing it for some of the same reasons you mentioned, he kind of alludes to it on his original tweet, but it seems that he felt that if they didn't get more donations to win this auction, then the games would likely never be released. He's probably right about that last part but I agree with you about the precedent that it can set with unscrupulous sellers who'll simply hoard this stuff until they get a ton of money. Not supplying them with large bids could work to improve things in the long run but do we risk permanently losing some games in the meantime. It's a tough debate and while I can see both sides of the argument, I agree with you Jenovi. Frank's not the only person to ask for donation for these types of auctions, he just happened to have done it recently. Heck, I'm sure I've retweeted people trying to crowdfund a large bid in the past. Any of us that try to crowdfund large donations for these game collections I fear are ultimately doing more harm than good, regardless of how good our intentions are.

[@Jenovi]

There's certainly other solutions, I'm just not sure we are good enough as a people to pull together and make it happen.

[@WrestlingWithGaming]

@@Jenovi unfortunately, not being good enough as a people is almost always correct.

[@Gorilla_Jones]

This is one of your best. The issue of scalping is only going to get worse, especially as more time passes and the generation which played these games initially ages. There is a bubble, but it's not going to burst for some time, maybe a couple decades. IMO if course.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks amigo, I appreciate that, and you're likely correct, the bubble will burst, but I think it's sooner than everyone thinks.

[@fossil-bit8439]

Scalping has seeped into many categories. It’s difficult trying to find toys at retail stores. So anytime I find something I’d think my son would like or something I want to display in the game room, it’s usually only on eBay at an inflated price. The toy shelves are always bare. Kids can’t even get the stuff anymore…

[@CDages]

@@Jenovi had the pandemic not occurred, I'd be more than willing to agree with you. Sadly i don't see it happening sooner than later at this point.

[@KelseyLewin]

I agree with most of your stances here! There's a reason that, by and large, VGHF does not get involved in the purchase of prototype games -- this was a special circumstance where we felt, in the absence of financial help from others in the community (and a huge outcry of interest), that we might have to step in. However, I think it's a little naïve to say that if preservationists would just keep quiet, that the problem would solve itself. The cat has been out of the bag for a while, so to speak, and in this case we're dealing with an entirely different country with their own set of values they place on prototypes as collectibles. Your thoughts overall reflect a lot of what we've tried to preach over the years at VGHF. If you watch some of the talks we've given, podcast episodes, etc -- prototypes are a mere crumb of the work that needs to be done in game preservation. So I regret that the tweet may have given any impression otherwise. And finally, in case it wasn't clear -- yes, everything we do is done with the ultimate purpose of being as accessible as possible. Which absolutely includes remote digital access. It's a long and complex process but it's our biggest project and one we're working on very seriously. :)

[@Jenovi]

Hey Kelsey, Thanks for the comment, feedback, and the opportunity to clarify some things. It certainly is a bit hard to fully gauge a poster's intent via a tweet, and I can understand how misunderstandings may happen. Even in video format without an open discussion, this can be problematic, as is the case with this video here. My point was not that preservationists should remain quiet and in the shadows. It’s that we should reconsider how we approach these issues, and it’s fair for you to disagree with that. I still respect what you do. I also realize that the preservation of prototypes is just one of the many focuses VGHF has, and often the ones acquired are handed off to more notable groups in this space (as Frank mentioned in his tweet). I was never disillusioned about that, but this conversation is strictly about prototypes, unreleased games, and how a different approach is needed to acquire them. I focused on this because that’s where the manipulation of people is most frequent. Retro Advisory Board made a suggestion which I will share, because I think there’s a solid point here, but I don’t have any sort of pull to make something like this happen. “If keeping the cost of acquisition down is paramount, calling attention to a particular auction (or to generalized activities), might be counterproductive? Is there any appetite for a separately funded trust tasked specifically for these types of auction or private market acquisitions, with trusted institutional oversight - maybe a board from trusted institutions like the National Video Game Museum, the Strong Museum of Play, et al to review successes without spotlighting the individual work going on, that can roll the releases or delayed statements on the preservation efforts. Minimize the public involvement alerting savvy buyers to potential prize finds?” -RAB There’s a serious issue at hand, and I’m not exactly sure the solution. I’m just positive that signal boosting these things isn’t the way. So I hope I didn’t offend you because that wasn’t the goal. I kept the video title and thumbnail simple and non-clickbaity because it wasn’t intended to be drama. However, I have a large audience that cares about this stuff, being a large segment of my channel is devoted to covering unreleased games and their stories. Anyways, I want to say one last thing, and it’s that you should really make it clear that Remote Digital Access is in the pipeline, even if it’s a ways out. I think everyone assumes that it is (I certainly have), but it’s really unclear, and I’m not alone in feeling this way. Even reading over the website in the past, I was unsure of what exactly the plan was. I don't listen to the podcast, and I'm not plugged into the VGHF community. This may be crystal clear for those who are, but for the rest, it's not. I think you do the VGHF a massive service by clarifying this. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve chatted with that tell me they want to support the foundation, but they don’t believe anything but an occasional blog post and a physical library is planned, one they have no means of traveling too. Best of luck to the work you and the Foundation do, and I hope there may be something worth considering in everything I had to say .

[@PandaMoniumReviews]

Thanks for making this Jenovi.

[@Jenovi]

Thank you for watching. 🤠

[@PandaMoniumReviews]

@@Jenovi Of course! 🐼

[@N8_THN]

Ugh now this reminded me of the doofus who claimed that he was a preservationist. He had 4 prototypes of the unreleased Akira game on gameboy, paraded it around conventions, then sold it for 3 grand without backing it up on a computer. What kind of a video game preservationist are you if you won’t even dump the game that was considered lost?

[@ExtremeWreck]

He fooled people without even trying. He was a stupid person with no brain.

[@lltbg]

You raise some really good points. I hope this conversation adds to the retro game preservation situation in a meaningful, positive way. I appreciate your thoughts!!

[@Drinkabeerandplayagameofficial]

Good boy Jenovi at it again

[@joek0620]

Great video! I came over from Wrestle With Gaming channel and I love your documentary style videos and I love that you, WWG, and Gaming Historian all have unique, but great styles when filming your documentary videos. Keep up the good work! New subscriber for sure!

[@Jenovi]

Welcome aboard!

[@Dax2375-e5p]

While I generally agree with the sentiments, I think one important part wasn’t fully addressed. Frank Cifaldi has talked about how until money is on the table as a possibility, many creators won’t go through the trouble of digging up prototypes or helping at all in game preservation. The same with companies. So it’s a lot more of a systemic capitalism issue in a society that doesn’t respect games fully as art. But there isn’t a real way to circumnavigate that if government bodies and larger institutions won’t put money, resources, and thought into game preservation the way they do with other art forms.

[@drgribb]

Jenovi, completely agree with your take here. Thanks for putting it out there. Wasn't aware about that with the Spot Goes to Hollywood 32X prototype! For some reason I always thought a near-complete prototype had been dumped (maybe it was just gameplay vids that I saw). That's a real shame.

[@Jenovi]

Years later, I still find it disappointing.

[@Turbulation1]

At least Hidden Palace finally recovered a build of the game as of the start of this year, and the game was revealed to be cancelled half way through development.

[@ImportGamingFTW]

Very good, Mr. Jenovi. Very, very good.

[@WrestlingWithGaming]

Hello strong Jimmy

[@Jenovi]

I wild Jimmy Hapa has appeared!

[@ImportGamingFTW]

@@WrestlingWithGaming Hello stronger (but a little shorter) Yahel.

[@ImportGamingFTW]

@@Jenovi I'm.a wild and crazy guy. Your thoughtful and impassioned points here make me want to release my Aliens Vs. Predator 32X prototype to the public...for the right price.

[@Jenovi]

One MILLION DOLLARS! 🤔

[@Dongled]

Great video. You raise a really good point about this topic. This exact thing happened with the recent Castlevania Resurrection beta. I was in discussion with several fellow Castlevania fans about potentially raising funds to buying the disc that was put up on ebay and I'm glad we didn't actually collect any money because the seller decided to cancel the auction and release the disc to someone trusted in the community to release the game. When there's a will, there's a way. FOMO is dangerous and predatory.

[@Jenovi]

I was originally going to talk about this very situation and one other, but cut them for time. I think it's an excellent example of money not always winning out.

[@Dongled]

@@Jenovi I truly believe if the composer didn't reach out about the game being sold, it would've been sold and never have been released anytime soon (at least).

[@Jenovi]

I guess we will never know being I cut it from the video.

[@CDages]

@@Dongled You are correct. I believe I actually happened to contact said composer almost as soon as the game was discovered and placed on auction simply to compliment his great work in the games OST which was available online. The series of events that occurred soon after was both mind blowing and nerve wrecking. But im glad I did. Darn shame this wasn't covered. Its a fantastic video nonetheless Jenovi. Great stuff as always.

[@Dongled]

@@CDages I'm glad he covered what he did because I wasn't aware of either situation.

[@PotbellyPunch]

It's a chicken and egg. This particular neo Geo auction already was public facing. They could have either kept quiet and hoped to win it at a lower price (but perhaps some other place would take notice and signal boost it) or ask the community and hope a donor came forward. But I have to wonder, shouldn't they have connections with potential donors already? And if not, do they really think sending a tweet will get attention of someone willing to spend 15-20k on something like this?

[@Jenovi]

Exactly.

[@st1ka]

Wow, I had no idea about ANY of these stories.

[@Jenovi]

I'm like the Blue Clue guy, but hawking info on Retro Games rather than colors and shapes.

[@st1ka]

@@Jenovi haha

[@HypnoGenX]

I'd never even considered the implications of crowdfunding like this. Great warning video.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for watching and for the comment.

[@BlownMacTruck]

Never not wave at the end. It’s adorable.

[@rars0n]

Absolutely agree with you. So much of gaming history has been lost, everything that can be found should be shared and cherished. I hate the hoarding mindset of some collectors, and worse, the profit-seeking of non-collectors who simply want to keep something rare. Anyone who hoards for themselves or for the purpose of making a profit is not a true gaming enthusiast. I also think it's incredibly stupid for anyone to hoard prototypes on optical media. That's just asking for the thing to be lost forever. I can imagine some people with rare discs eventually trying to sell them only to figure out that the discs are now worthless due to rot. That's also another caveat for anyone paying big bucks for a prototype disc. Heck, even hardware will fail eventually and there's no guarantee someone will be able to fix it. I give Andrew Bacon (KZbin channel Video Game Esoterica) a huge amount of credit, because the moment he gets his hands on something, he dumps it for the public to have and preserve. He sometimes spends good money on these things and usually gets nothing more out of it than making a video or two about the item in question, on his KZbin channel which, like yours, is criminally under-subbed. That's the true spirit of a video game enthusiast. Someone who wants to share cool things with the rest of the world and is willing to pay money in order to be able to do so. What good is it to own a lost prototype when nobody actually knows what you have because you haven't shared it with anyone? And what is the value lost dumping it to the public when you still own the original, physical copy?

[@budz2355]

John Riggs has a copy of spot.... I think he might actually have TWO copies. Maybe reach out to him?

[@Drinkabeerandplayagameofficial]

I’m shocked that Hancock never put up the ROM for Spot. I’m guessing everyone involved is worried about the value of their bootlegs…shame.

[@toko6086]

I agree, I can only assume he's holding it back because he wants to do another run eventually and make more money with it.

[@Jenovi]

Here's a video of him talking about it. I remember talking with John years ago about it, but can't exactly remember the conversation. The long and short of it was he didn't own the prototype, that was all they planned to produce, and the rom would not be released to the public. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2iudaWNhJaUgKM

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@Jenovi *T H A T ' S E V E N W O R S E*

[@fossil-bit8439]

Not a fan of “The Immortal” John Hancock anymore. He is a hypocrite. I’ve actually stopped watching the entire Metal Jesus crew.

[@Drinkabeerandplayagameofficial]

@@Jenovi wow, just wow

[@RetroAdvisoryBoard]

Agree. Would prefer the light funds in the field consolidate current projects, and go to more researchers than the public chase. Interesting topic. If keeping the cost of acquisition down is paramount, calling attention to a particular auction (or to generalized activities), might be counterproductive? Is there any appetite for a separately funded trust tasked specifically for these types of auction or private market acquisitions, with trusted institutional oversight - maybe a board from trusted institutions like the National Video Game Museum, the Strong Museum of Play, et al to review successes without spotlighting the individual work going on, that can roll the releases or delayed statements on the preservation efforts. Minimize the public involvement alerting savvy buyers to potential prize finds?

[@Jenovi]

Certainly the best idea I've seen and something I would support. However, many of these people don't play well together. Many also have a penchant for needing to be front and center, and that kind of negates receiving all the glory.

[@MorganIsAway]

Great take. Its good to hear points like this

[@Imetral0]

i'll never understand why people get so up in arms over piracy, particularly when it's a multi million dollar corporation. a majority of the time they don't give a shit about preserving their legacy content, and if they do it usually ends up sucking ass (Mario 64 decomp on Switch vs Official 3D All-Stars release). and even then, the losses those companies face from piracy are miniscule at best, the only ppl who rlly are affected greatly are indie devs.

[@ExtremeWreck]

This came RIGHT when I needed! Denzquix for some reason deleted some of the Internet Archive uploads of RSD Game-Maker games for no reason, & me, being a fan of the game engine, felt like I was being attacked. Like, JEEZ DUDE, JUST LET THEM BE ON THERE!!! Is someone threatening him!? I need to have a talk with him/her someday, maybe today even.

[@somebonehead]

RSD?

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@somebonehead Recreational Software Designs. The company. Not what you think it stands for.

[@somebonehead]

@@ExtremeWreck Oh, okay then. I'm sorry to read that, I hope they were backed up somewhere.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@somebonehead They're on the Game-Maker Archive, but he just deleted the Internet Archive uploads, which sucks because I don't want to have like, hundreds of those games on my computer's hard drive! I just want to play them on my browser, & the Internet Archive lets me do that!

[@mikekrow]

Great video man. People are so desperate to feel special. im sure that one dude liked the attention of people asking him if he would release it.

[@Jenovi]

I think you're right.

[@TheExistentialNerd]

In my own opinion, I feel that preservation will always be hindered when profit is involved. I do keep track of prices on my personal collection as so I can have something viable to provide insurance companies in case of fire, flood, or theft. Beyond that, I am not worried. I literally gave away an Atari 2600 Jr, and 7800 rev3 with a bunch of games to a friend for free. I wish that there was a "right way" about this all. Unfortunately, again with profit, there is no right way. Using the argument of "copyright" is a grey area viability, but if that is the case...3rd party used game stores are violating that copyright when they get 100% profit off of these games, and 0% goes to the developers and publishers. (Fun notion, I recall in the 90's that Nintendo and Sega attempted to push laws into existence for this very claim.) Overall, there is so many games released/unreleased that will be lost to time, no matter how hard groups try. There are too many individuals with personal interests that will consistently push to keep ownership of their items exclusive.

[@reagandow850]

Thank you so much for bringing this stuff to life. It bothers me to no end that people in our community are actively manipulating prices and some of those members claim they want to do great things with games yet won’t even help release one single game?? I’m with you Jenovi. You are a great guy. 💪

[@PiroKUSS]

They just lie so that they can have attention for a bit and boost their ego, as well as fucking around with the hype around them lol

[@MobCat_]

I unfortunately understand both sides of the argument, however consider how easy it is to download a nes or snes rom from almost anywhere vs how much Nintendo trys to take that stuff down. We can better preserve stuff if we all do it, not just a select group of people that includes me. If only Nintendo has the roms then nobody does. If one guy in a basement has the rom and his house burns down, then nobody does. Or hell bitrot is a thing too... The physical original source of the item will always be worth the big bucks. Releasing digital copies can sometimes actually make the original source worth more now people know the game exists, not less now anyone can just download it. The side that people don't know is there is a lot of work in the back end with rights holders and who actually owns the game and who is going to crawl out of the woodwork wanting there pound of flesh now a 30 year old game had surface they forgot they owned, there is a lot of work involved with clearing the release with all partys involved. There is no right side, just opinions.

[@GimblyGFR]

This video brings to my mind the whole Indiana Jones Greatest Adventures for Sega Genesis prototype situation. If I remember the story correctly, the cart was bought with the intention to preserve the game and release the ROM, but then the thing turned into a big mess. The software was still under copyright, then the possibility to release the game on physical media was discussed, and then Disney bought LucasFilms and the copyright situation turned even worse. Since then, the game is stuck in limbo. In all probability it has been preserved, but the chance we ever get to play it is very slim. Great video, Jenovi. You should do more of these 'opinion pieces' type of content.

[@ExtremeWreck]

At least we got the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles prototype preserved, though it still sucks that the Greatest Adventures one will likely never be released.

[@GimblyGFR]

​@@ExtremeWreck Man, I would love to see how all the Mode 7 effects and stages turned on Greatest Adventures for the Genny.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@GimblyGFR Me too. Would've definitely been interesting & incredible to behold!

[@GimblyGFR]

@@ExtremeWreck Factor 5 did an amazing job on Turrican 3, so I'm sure the effects would look great.

[@spagbowlsparmacheese629]

Magician lord 2 NGPC, it’s out there.

[@syphic]

Great video. Love your channel. I will continue to always buy my farm animals from you.

[@Jenovi]

I was worried you wouldn't for just a second.

[@PabstOban]

I appreciate you posting this video. Someone in the Tweet thread had asked what they thought you meant by "Unethical". Without putting words in your mouth and mentioning I couldn't speak for you I said what my best guess was, and my guess was probably wrong. I agree that people should spend their money on what they want to, and while I respect their decisions I can recognize the effects of such decisions... either intentional or unintentional. The take from this video was one I hadn't considered... and something that has frustrated me as well. FOMO marketing. I'm pretty into retro gaming scene, and I'm a fan of preservation because its preserving something I care about deeply... but had not this tweet been sent out, I wouldn't have known there was a Neo Geo Pocket Color auction, I wouldn't have even known these alpha/beta/unreleased games even existed. I appreciate what the guy does, but looking to crowdsource the funds had the unintentional (I presume) effect of creating a frenzy of bidding and someone seeing an opportunity to profit from it (again, something I don't have a problem with... but does indeed frustrate me). I also suspect him taking incoming financial support of "big money only" might have been with him not wanting to micromanage how the products were distributed based on contribution if he actually won. I can see how that would have gotten messy, and I'm sure people would have felt cheated or just been upset on how that distribution panned out. When it comes to people taking opportunities to buy something they know people want, then try to sell it to the people that didn't get it for a profit... is driven by the people that pay their prices. It's like feeding the blob, then being mad at the blob for taking over the planet. Scalpers is a problem only solved by not feeding the scalpers. Now if this was food and water, I'd have a BIG problem with it, but if it's things we want and don't need... it is what it is. Sucks... but I don't have a problem with it. Anyway, thanks for explaining yourself, and I do agree. Had that message not gone out and attracted so much attention, the auction probably would have gone for much less because it wouldn't have attracted that sort of bidder who cares more about making a few bucks on the side and cares little for preserving the games.

[@flcl4evr]

Cifaldi only wanted to take "big money only" because it would have been a charitable donation, and it is just easier to book keep smaller numbers of bigger donations for tax documentation than it would be to solicit large numbers of smaller donations. It's in his tweet. There wouldn't have been distribution to people. They wouldn't have been buying it together. They would have been donating to a tax deductible charity. It would have been preserved and shared.

[@Jenovi]

Appreciate this comment, and thanks for watching this.

[@simonebernacchia5724]

Like to remember Vertexer, if taito would release it in a collection despite the lack of the full simulator system would be still good

[@MarquisDeSang]

I am more worried about our current gaming world that cannot be saved or backup because it is all on cloud and on undocumented obscure hardware. There are already tons of VR games on PSVR, Oculus Go that cannot be played anymore. PSVR is the worst offender with Soyny deleting many VR games from their store.

[@Jenovi]

Certainly an issue.

[@GameTechRefuge]

There will always be those who seek to profiteer off others. It's become more viable in the retro scene lately. Disappointing but sadly not entirely surprising. The groups heart may be in the right place but I agree, it sets a dangerous precedent and sends signals to profiteers & scalpers .

[@Jenovi]

Thanks amigo, appreciate your comment.

[@somebonehead]

The video title wears its TotalBiscuit inspiration on its sleeve. God I miss John Bain. It feels like we need him now more than ever.

[@BryanTruong]

Well said

[@Jenovi]

Thanks!

[@unknownaccount8411]

the dark side of the gaming

[@Canadian_Gamer]

Just getting caught up on some of your older videos. Yeah, 35 bootleg cartridges auctioned off for charity... how much do you want to bet Hancock auctioned off 34 and tucked one away in his private collection for safe keeping (cough, cough) early retirement...

[@Jenovi]

I wouldn’t take that bet as I know the answer, and apparently, you do too. 🤣 thanks for watching. I don’t have a ton of videos where I just talk about a topic like this, you’re likely through them all at this point.

[@chadwolf3840]

great video. depressing how people are treating these.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for taking the time to watch.

[@joandarc441]

I think if emulation didn't existed I can't play my old favorite Arcade or Retro games, Old game's

[@Jenovi]

Very true

[@merlingt1]

You are 100% correct.

[@erwanlecainec3394]

There is another problem. During a summer four or five years ago, Spot goes to Hollywood on 32X was available on ebay.com for 400 $. It was expensive ... but okay if you consider the cost today if what you're saying about the price is right... Just by the fact you mention this game will make it more and more expensive... I had written a comment on a Facebook group which was on 32X. A guy had this Spot Goes to Hollywood proto on 32X. When I asked why they didn't dump it, they told me they couldn't because they had to ask some authorization... Was it bluffing ? Maybe... But given the strong mentality of communities in the US with the charities and so on, not so many people owning the game are going to deliver their precious to the world. Because they may have deeper beliefs than the preservation of video games instead. That's a shame, but 35 games coming from a charity... What kind of charity ? That's the whole point.

[@TheSuperPlayer707]

Wow… I genuinely love when you do this kind of videos where you're talking about things that not so much people talks. The game preservation it's a thing that it's really hard to pick. I don't really like when people just stubbornly tries to keep a copy of an unreleased game just to increase the rate value rather than upload the ROM. But, in the other hand, it's kinda complicated to defend people that just make things like the Nintendo's Megaleak and that kind of things tends to touch the illegality. The matter with unreleased and/or beta content game preservation it's just a thing that goes case to case. Sometimes it's good and sometimes it could be controversial. Anyway, I'm just rambling… nice to see you again and such interesting cases you presented, Jenovi.

[@Jenovi]

Thanks for watching Lucas, always good to see you in the comments.

[@TheSuperPlayer707]

@@Jenovi and it's always nice to see you uploading new vídeos. Hope I can update to the last videos!

[@somebonehead]

There is nothing complicated about defending the champions behind the Nintendo megaleak.

[@TheSuperPlayer707]

@@somebonehead yep, but still being something illegal.

[@ExtremeWreck]

@@somebonehead Yeah the megaleak content Nintendo likely doesn't care for anymore lol.

[@akalyx]

ffs thanks a lot frank

[@一本のうんち]

I don't think that prototypes are part of the 'history'. They weren't released for a reason so there's no need to stress about that. A collector hogging the prototype is pretty much same as if it was never released. Sure it's nice when one surfaces and gives you an idea of what could've been but.., Where do you draw the line then of what's worthy of preservation? Every development build iteration? Source code? Computers thay the game was made on? Canned air from the developers office? etc. I'll stick to official releases as that's how regular people got to experience those games.

[@somebonehead]

The Japanese have the worst views on video game preservation and I'm not apologizing for pointing out that fact.

[@PiroKUSS]

Prototypes are part of the history because they contain stuff that never made it to the final version. It's like drafts of books/plays/scripts. No one got to see it, yet they're sought after because of its historical value. It shows what the process behind the game was like and why some decisions were made. It's the same thing.

[@mid-jump_attack]

All of this just making collecting not fun. :(

[@MightyQDawg]

Great video! There's a lot here and no easy answers, I'm afraid. "Preservation" is a dangerous word. First, it is often used as an excuse to justify IP theft. I estimate that most people who use it are not actually interested in preservation, but rather just want to play games they wouldn't normally have access to. Second, perservation is considered an "unquestioned good" and that extreme means can and should be taken in the name of preservation.

[@Jenovi]

All good points, and the more vocal community certainly has a habit of treating all these things as equals. There's certainly a broader discussion to be had here.

[@mjc0961]

"I estimate that most people who use it are not actually interested in preservation, but rather just want to play games they wouldn't normally have access to." Isn't that the point? If people can't play the game, is it really preserved? What about a movie nobody can watch, a book nobody can read? If nobody can experience something, then I would argue that thing hasn't been preserved. Okay cool, somebody has a copy of a game in temperature controlled storage somewhere. That's nice. That physical piece of hardware is preserved, but the game on it? Still lost to history since nobody can play it. IP theft? We're talking about prototypes and unreleased games here. Stuff that wasn't going to be sold by the massive corporations who made it anyway. We're not talking about getting a copy of Horizon Forbidden West on launch day and dumping an ISO online so people can pirate it and Sony loses a bunch of money. SEGA (or whoever owns the rights to it) isn't going to sell us a copy of Spot for the 32X, they lose absolutely nothing if that ROM gets released online. Show me some actual harm being done, until then I'm not seeing a problem here.

[@MightyQDawg]

@@mjc0961 "Isn't that the point? If people can't play the game, is it really preserved? What about a movie nobody can watch, a book nobody can read? If nobody can experience something, then I would argue that thing hasn't been preserved." But we are not talking about "nobody". Preservation is a case of "somebody", not of "anybody". *Some* people can play a game and as long as that's true the technical requirements for being "preserved" have been met. Preserving something does not mean unrestricted access to anyone who wants it. There's little need for me to have a digital copy of a game for which there are thousands or millions (or even dozens) of other copies. Me personally not having access to a ROM image does not mean the game is not preserved. My comment was directed at what I believe are the vast majority of cases where "preservation" is claimed that have nothing to do with preservation since that requirement has already been met thousands of times over. "IP theft? We're talking about prototypes and unreleased games here." The implication that prototypes and unreleased games are excluded as IP is not one I can agree with. If anything, public release of these is an even bigger infraction. Additionally, though this video focuses on these things, the broader "video game preservation" movement also covers obscure, rare or out-of-print games as well. In these cases, public releases of unauthorized digital copies would also be IP theft. "Show me some actual harm being done, until then I'm not seeing a problem here." The harm is that you never know when the IP owner will want to re-capitalize its IP. In the late 1990s, everyone was claiming that emulating NES and SNES games "wasn't hurting anyone" because "Nintendo isn't selling them anymore". And then Nintendo re-released them digitally for sale on Wii, WiiU and now Switch. To summarize, my opinion is merely that it is possible to preserve something without making it publically available. (There are all kinds of examples of this with important artifacts throughout history.) Preservation is the act of preventing *every* copy from disappearing. It is not the act of providing everyone with free, unfettered access to any game they choose.

[@BMoore335]

IP is a social fabrication intended to encourage those going outside the norm a place where they could receive compensation for their labors and be protected from easy poaching. It is not intended to be a substitute for gold plated worldly security. Transgressing such barriers when they are simply generative of profits to an “owner” is a fine moral act and should be done ritually.

[@Aragorn7884]

Because: capitalism 💩🤑🙄🙄

[@sangbeta2043]

I can't listen to this, the music is too distracting.

[@Myako]

Wow, I don't agree with this take at all. Scalping, speculation and profiteering have always been a problem and will never stop being so. And not talking about it is futile: security through obscurity never works. The bid was already in progress, so the only way to try and have those prototypes released was winning it. If they hadn't tried, then the end result would have been the same: the prototypes not reaching the public. And VGHF already does lots of public, free, "proper" work: it's not mutually exclusive with participating in a rotten system you have no way of recovering, and trying to get SOME good out of it.

[@Jenovi]

That's the exact point, the end result wouldn't have been the same, unless the only result that matters is winning the bid.

[@Myako]

@@Jenovi I'd argue that the owner putting those prototypes for auction is proof that they never intended to just release them to the public. Not participating in this auction would then have meant that either someone else got them (and, at that price, world likely have refused to dump them for preservation) or that the owner would simply have tried a new auction further down the road. With that in mind, the only way to have them digitally preserved was to win the auction.