2024 Revised 5e Player's Handbook First Impressions

[@midoriioyama9548]

10:50 yess, rules glossary! so useful

[@nicka3697]

It is useful. Until it isn't. Try finding rules on drowning. Search the glossary, try the index. Then pick up your thesaurus ... douse, drench, engulf, flood, immerse... suffocate... Look up each one in the glossary and 10 minutes later there you are ... but where are your players ... have they gone off to make coffee, open a beer, check their email?

[@Zertryx]

They did the same thing with Crafting and Tools, The hyped up "oh yeah were gonna have these new crafting tables for all the tools and new things items can do". and EVERY single one of them were like 1 line of text on what you can craft meanwhile Xanathars guide has an entire CHAPTER for tools and crafting thats 20x more in depth. that and early on Jermy said we were gonna get a player friendly version of the Necromancer subclass for wizard and that was scrapped.

[@Burridgedan]

I am with you on the book smell. I'm glad I'm not the only one. 🤣

[@the_dewvakiin]

The KZbin gods have decided to put me on a rabbit hole of your videos and I could not be more pleased! I've been my groups' ForeverDM for a number of years now and the personality and down to earth nature of your content has been a breath of fresh air. Also, there's no way I invented the multiple The Good Place references, right? That was the cherry on top!

[@IcarusGames]

We love it when the algorithm does it's job ☺️ I'm glad you're enjoying the videos! And there's plenty of good places references 🤣 there's a video here someone about time and it references the Jeremy Beremy sequence!

[@the_dewvakiin]

​@@IcarusGames Lez GOOOO!!! Any fan of The Good Place is a friend of mine. I'll be looking that video up post haste!

[@WalkOnNick]

It would be insane if we aren't going to get magic item prices but I could see it. They also really hyped up the "new crafting system" which seems very similar to the underwhelming old rules.

[@IcarusGames]

@@WalkOnNick yeah the crafting "system" is nothing compared to the expectation established by their hype. People were expecting an actually new system and not just a tweak on the Tasha/Xanathar rules. If all we get for magic item pricing is a tweak on the XgtE tables I will be so pissed 🤣

[@WalkOnNick]

@@IcarusGames Same! Haha

[@Psymonkee]

Book smell is the most important thing. I think my love of it goes back to video game manuals in the 90's! 😎

[@IcarusGames]

I'm so glad I'm not alone in this 😂

[@DMwaDJ]

Given your relative recent shift back from PF2e to 5e for your home games, and your reasons for doing so, how do you feel about the much more structured and more defined rules tone this update has?

[@IcarusGames]

@@DMwaDJ EXCELLENT question! For the most part the core rules haven't really changed so much as become clarified, and the information has become easier to find thanks to the rules glossary, so I think it's a big win on that front. Have to wait for the other two of the core books to release to be able to give my full thoughts, but so far I'm feeling positive!

[@Cuthbo]

Nice balanced review! I enjoyed 5th for a while but like many old timers I've been gradually drifting towards older versions and games inspired by older versions. But I hope this new edition continues to get the youngsters into the hobby - 50th certainly did a great job with that!

[@IcarusGames]

I mention it in the video, but 5e does continue to move away from some of the older school styles of play (such as magic being just terrifying) in a way I'm not thrilled about. But like you said, there's still those older editions and the OSR movement for me to get that fix when I want it ☺️

[@Weird_Quests]

I had my alt cover order cancelled here - really sad I can’t get one in Aussie land :(

[@IcarusGames]

Yeah seems a lot of folks had their alt cover orders cancelled. It would be nice to go one release without them having some kind of production issue!

[@zidahya]

So its an very expensive errate they used to redesign their book and charge us for it. Gotcha.

[@IcarusGames]

@@zidahya yeah, it's pretty much exactly what they described it to be! You're not obligated to buy the book 🤷‍♂️

[@Psymonkee]

Overall fair takes though I think. It's definitely an improvement in a lot of ways but equally a few disappointments too. I wonder if we'll see more session 0 advice and starting level info in the dmg instead? 🤔

[@IcarusGames]

I hope we see more session zero advice on the DMG, because I think it is a crucial step to removing a lot of common table conflicts.

[@adantez7268]

Starting level info is in the new phb

[@rogerwilco2]

Specific page references has not been difficult since around 1990. I find it exceedingly stupid that they still don't do this.

[@dylanhyatt5705]

Well I ran a campaign using the 2014 shortly after it was released and for the low levels it was fun - but then I found certain spells overrode the need for Rangers or Rogues to have skills (Leomund's Tiny Hut) - and Locate Object ruined a mystery adventure I had written. Then some easy encounters turned close to TPK, and many boss fights over in the first or second round. So I ported over to PF2e and at first found it daunting, and my players are happy with the system. But I do miss the more 'loosey-goosey' flexibility of D&D5e and the way low level critters can still be relevant (to a minor degree) - in PF2e anything outside of +/- 3 levels (maybe 4) is unplayable. I would be excited for D&D2024 - and would like to try it out sometime, but I really like the way martials in PF2e aren't generally spell-casters and are nicely balanced with spell-casters, and the encounter building system is highly robust.

[@IcarusGames]

Mystery adventures are HARD to write and run in fantasy RPGs because magic can really trivialise a lot of elements, so I totally empathize with that!

[@dylanhyatt5705]

@@IcarusGames And it can be problematic in PF2e as well. But I love writing mysteries and puzzling events for my adventures.

[@RickDevil12]

You could also play using the Proficiency without level rule, which should give you more of a "DnD" feeling, since it would lower that gap in different level creatures.

[@dylanhyatt5705]

@@RickDevil12 I have considered that - but I've seen some KZbin videos arguing the math breaks down. Though the level think is pesky, it creates really exciting and tight encounters all the way. I think if I wanted say goblins to be a part of a L12 Pathfinder adventure, obviously I'd use some boss monster, but throw in a some kind of artifact at the centre of the 'dungeon' powering the goblins up so they get +10 to 'proficiency bonus' to AC and attacks.

[@midoriioyama9548]

Hey! I bought the new phb, as I am a newer dm, and have found that it is becoming annoying to use the pdf phb and mm. So I decide to buy the 2014 MM and 2024 phb, as even if I don't like it, I will have the old in pdf. And honestly I really love the organization in it, but some stuff are questionable. like the fact that they don't give u a usable character sheet! i literally needed to search online for 30 mins to find it. I do love the newer character sheet setup better then the old one. I adore, that the magic spells are not at the beginning of the spell descriptions, but after the characters. I surprisingly love the background setup! Idid not notice the smaller changes like pricing, but one thing I already run into problems w is the 3rd level subclass thingy.. My friend wanted to make a warlock, and I needed to come up with a homebrew solution, so he can choose what he wants to be in advance, but still not breaking the rules horribly. My solution was to choose his patron, but not get any of the features presented, as he needs to "prove himself" to his patron before they give him power. And I as a dm, can evaluate this. so if he wants to become a celestial patron, he needs to help ppl, if he is a murderhobo, his patron will reject him, and he can choose, to not advance to 3rd level, until he proves himself, or his celestial patron will pass him over to a fiend one for example. (or a fey one if he is too tricky, and causing trouble, instead of being compasionate). It is not perfect, but I hope it will work, we are going to have a session next week!

[@IcarusGames]

Your solution for the warlock sounds pretty perfect!

[@nicka3697]

That does sound pretty dope. This needs good communication between player and DM hopefully there will be more guidance in the DMG but the relationship between a warlock and his patron or between a cleric and her god is key to playing the character well from level 1 even if the subclass selection doesn't happen for 2 more levels. I feel the 2024 phb really skims this badly. Novice DMs are left to flounder.

[@nathanaelthomas9243]

The thing I was most excited about was better balance between the classes/subclasses/spells/etc so I don’t have to homebrew as much stuff and for the game to be easier to run for the DM by fixing things like wonky rules, more intuitive encounter design, magic item advice, etc. I feel like they did a kind of meh job at this, which is a shame. I like some stuff and feel like they could have done so much more for very little additional effort. It’s like they cared more about having a bunch of fancy artwork than actually releasing the best product they could and getting us all hyped up on all the new cool player options.

[@IcarusGames]

From what I've read I've been broadly pleased with most of the changes to player options, and the book is definitely clearer and easier to reference overall. If they do a similar job on the DMG I think it'll still be a win over all, even if it's not as big of a change as some of us may have liked.

[@nathanaelthomas9243]

@@IcarusGames Yeah, overall I agree with you, there’s just little stuff it feels like they overlooked or ignored because it didn’t come up in the community feedback or get low enough satisfaction scores and it would have been nice if they had fixed it or improved it without having to have us tell them it could use a tweak. Also, some of the options that people liked in 2014 didn’t get any changes and are now overshadowed by the 2024 updates. I’m worried there won’t be hardly anything noteworthy that they change in the Monster Manual, but I agree that if they improve the DMs Guide like they did the PHB, I’ll be generally happy.

[@rogerwilco2]

I am disappointed how many small ribbon features were removed from the classes and subclasses. Simple things like the Paladin immunity to disease.

[@IcarusGames]

I'm actually glad that fewer classes have disease immunities now. It's very difficult to incorporate contagions into a 5e adventure because previously there was so many trivial ways to solve the problem or be immune to their effects.

[@starrius]

I took a look at the new 5e as im a person who prefers older editions over 5e. I see a few improvements but do feel 5e has moved far more away from the stuff I like I will continue to avoid it over systems like pf2 or older editions

[@IcarusGames]

@@starrius yeah, as I touch on in the video; I think it's probably better than ever at what it is, but what it is isn't for everyone, and is definitely a different style of D&D to older editions.

[@MichaelGaskin]

I'm not interested at this point. Perhaps if they do a complete revision, I will take a look. For now, I'm sticking with Pathfinder 2e.

[@Wilhuf1]

Inexcusable to not include a copyable character sheet in a players handbook.

[@magetower]

I’m still happy to stay with anything else (PF2E, Savage Worlds Fantasy). I had my hands on the PHB this past weekend and the art, with a few exceptions, was terrible and bland. I agree about the smell though!!!!

[@IcarusGames]

It's all personal preference, of course, but I hard disagree on the art. I think the art throughout is fantastic. A lot of it is a lot lighter in tone than some of the older editions (more heroic fantasy, less dark fantasy), which is going to be a preference thing though for sure.

[@magetower]

@@IcarusGames subjective for sure, no worries there! I tend to like a little darkness in my high fantasy so that tracks. Having started in ‘84 I prefer the Elmore and Easley art to the modern take. I’m not a fan of PF2E artwork either. Hahaha

[@IcarusGames]

@@magetower I also love the Elmore, Whelan, and Brom era of dark fantasy art, and I do wish we got more of that in the mainstream D&D-esque games these days. None of the Revised 5e art speaks to me in the way that those older pieces did, but I know its because I saw those pieces at such a formative age. There's definitely going to be young kids who pick up this new PHB and are just as inspired by some of the pieces within as I was when I saw my first Frank Frazetta piece, for example.

[@magetower]

@@IcarusGames there are a lot of art options out there so we can design our campaigns around the art that inspires us. I stepped away from dnd well before the WotC kerfuffle(s) as I just didn’t care for the rules. It doesn’t look like the revised 5e will bring me back to the fold but it keeps people playing RPGs so there’s that! I have so many other games I want to play, too many actually… whether I like DnD or not, I’ll keep watching. :-)

[@IcarusGames]

Yeah, if you weren't a fan of the 5e rules before the revision, I very much doubt you'd change your mind - the revised 5e rules are basically the same with just a relatively small set of tweaks when it comes to core rules. I feel your pain with the too many games to play though! I've been trying to get one shots of as many games as possible throughout the summer. There's a ton of games I want to talk about on the channel, and keeping making D&D videos helps keep the algorithm happy and gives me the space to also talk about other games (like Monster of the Week recently, or Shadowdark which I'll be making a video on soon!)

[@falconnm]

1:25 The book is UNUSABLE because there's no photocopyable character sheet". I stopped listening right at that point, anyone foolish enough to think that the book becomes completely unusable just isn't someone with opinions I need. 🤷

[@IcarusGames]

But you took the time to rush to the comments to let us all know that instead of watching for like 30 more seconds for the context and explanation, right? 👍

[@magetower]

@@IcarusGames ***Rage intensifies!!!***

[@the_dewvakiin]

​@@IcarusGamesThe point you made was good, OP just has the rare medical condition of permanently stepping on a lego. We can all hope that one day he's able to heal from such a grievous wound and also extract the residue of his impromptu colonoscopy.