I'm black; I was born in England and grew up here. I have never viewed myself "as a black man" specifically or as a badge. I got dragged into some equality/diversity forums as a "token speaker" back in the mid '90s and I can honestly say I did not know what I was talking about and on reflection I feel very embarrassed about it. I HATE all this "woke" shit!
@benledger49154 жыл бұрын
@Mario and you are a tit.
@oldschoolcockneylover81384 жыл бұрын
Love for ya mate I'm proud u feel like that! u Know I watch Boxing matches on youtube from b4 my time! Benn Eubank etc! u know Benn was a proud Union Jack waving Brit who fought like a lion and was in the army! He is a hero who done Britain proud!
@CalamityM4 жыл бұрын
@Mario No, didn't you read what he wrote: he was _born_ in England, that makes him a black British person. He wasn't born in Africa, he was born in Britian. He'd only be an African-British if he migrated from Africa.
@keyboarddancers77514 жыл бұрын
@Mario I've been on holiday to Tunisia and Morocco a few times - sadly that's the fullest extent of my familiarity with Africa; it felt quite interesting being somewhere where my colour was viewed differently to here in Britain. I also remember visiting the West Indies for the first time many years ago and seeing white people speaking in West Indian accents; confused the hell out of me! Having traveled to a number of different countries over the years, I've found myself quite fascinated by the different perspectives on race and culture in those countries. Somebody called me a cis-male a while back; I chuckled because somehow I'd managed to survive all these years of my life without knowing that! I do think it's quite amusing (if maybe a little arrogant) of somebody to presume any sort of label or title for me without knowing very much about my background.
@keyboarddancers77514 жыл бұрын
@Mario (Lovin' this!) I've done a lot of research many years ago and I was surprised to discover a long time ago from my grandparents that I have Dutch, Scottish and West African forbears and my relatives and their families hail from Canada, Australia, America and Germany so I feel quite blessed having such a varied international background. As I said in my earlier comment, I do find it quite extraordinary when somebody presumes to tell me who I should be or what I should think. I certainly don't need to answer to some angry sounding person on the internet. I know one thing; I'll probably still travel. You're right though, I should visit more of Africa (it's sooo big!) I've often thought of checking out Gabon or Kenya or Tanzania; they look really interesting places and definitely don't fit the annoying mainstream narrative of "poverty and instability".
@jeffberlin41795 жыл бұрын
Douglas is a gentleman of rare and extraordinary quality. He never feels the need to use his private personal life as a shield or to add any weight to his opinions. What a treasure.
@abigailslade38245 жыл бұрын
I agree Douglas is a national treasure unfortunately unrecognised by many.
@daveerwin69815 жыл бұрын
He's massive in homersexual community
@lauraswartz37815 жыл бұрын
@@daveerwin6981 quit being obsessed with your so called Community. Communitarianism is just another term for identitarianism. First learn to identify yourself as an individual, one who cannot be divided.
@abigailslade38245 жыл бұрын
Laura Swartz well said Laura, wish people would stop doing that it’s almost as though they are saying you can’t admire Douglas Murray unless you are gay which is clearly ridiculous, firstly my own dad is gay and so such things matter to me in no way like MLK I prefer to judge someone on their character not on insignificant personal traits which the individual is born with. Except for overly high shrieking voices but that’s because it goes through me not because I dislike them for their high shrieking voice.
@nealandersen48675 жыл бұрын
@@lauraswartz3781 he didnt even say it was his community, nor whether it was a good thing or bad
@tunkyslug5 жыл бұрын
I love how Lionel disagrees with Douglas and he just listens, accepts what’s being said and they move on. Sad that these days that’s so impressive!
@MsFreudianSlip5 жыл бұрын
I noticed that, too, and was very impressed with him. I like how she disagreed tactfully as well.
@Fee_V5 жыл бұрын
Yep, got that too. Very refreshing.
@g13n795 жыл бұрын
It's what grown ups do
@Valelacerte4 жыл бұрын
It is _sad_ that a leftist is celebrated merely for _not_ being an intolerant and vicious arsehole, like the rest of their cult. So, she has retained the ability to have rational, reasonable and respectful debates. So what? She still voted for Hillary Clinton ("Vot for me, coz...I'm a woman! [and my husband's a rapist]), wants Trump out of office and subscribes to the same fundamental values. Her apparent reasonableness has nothing to do with virtue and everything to do with the sick nature of her ideology, resulting in yesterday's radicals being attacked by today's radicals. We've already seen it with Alan Dershowitz, Christine Hoff Sommers and Bret Weinstein. These people are the _progenitors_ of the concepts and attitudes that drive the SJWs and cultural Marxists of today. They are not victims, but perpetrators.
@michawill65994 жыл бұрын
It's called active listening. Nowadays people interrupt, deny, belittle, ignore, get angry, attack, withdraw, personalise, misintetpret, judge etc Worse still because people don't like objectivity, they might even justify those behaviours because what they feel is more important than what you say.
@nathanbrammer84714 жыл бұрын
Im a big fan of Douglas Murray, but Lionel Shriver is incredible, this is the first time I have had the pleasure to listen to her.
@annedobson-mack368811 ай бұрын
Her novels are excellent too!
@DanSpare-b4k7 ай бұрын
Him*
@MarcusCorbett2 ай бұрын
She has hard rationality embedded. Murray loses it on Israel.
@Millie-kj5ju5 жыл бұрын
So pleased and grateful you uploaded this, wanted to be there but couldn’t. Speakers like Douglas Murray and Lionel Shriver help me to feel that I’m not going bat sh*t crazy in this increasingly insane society
@julieg66935 жыл бұрын
Yes I totally agree
@EnglishDrDave5 жыл бұрын
Great
@Millie-kj5ju5 жыл бұрын
Black Philip I’m beginning to think it’s out of “my” or any individual’s hands, it needs the electorate, if still viable, to vote in parties who will remove the identity politics and political correctness out of society, start to treat people as individuals again regardless of race, religion, age, gender, sex orientation etc , start to forgive each other, start to listen to each other again without judgement. That has to come with cultural change , it cannot be enforced by law, that is where madness lies and totalitarian government results.
@Millie-kj5ju5 жыл бұрын
Black Philip what do you think we should do?
@Millie-kj5ju5 жыл бұрын
Black Philip i totally agree with you, I was suggesting it as the gentle “hopeful” adult way of dealing with things, sadly we don’t have gentle adults in positions of power, we have bullies and extremists. I believe that it has gone too far to be able to resolve this without violence being part of the outcome. I do not condone violence but the minute you mention it, you are accused of inciting it..... it’s becoming a dangerous world. My yellow vest is in the wardrobe.
@simonheaney87215 жыл бұрын
Douglas is in his prime now . Incredibly insightful on today's most important issues that affect western culture p
@istvantoth74315 жыл бұрын
He's gonna be in his prime in the next 20 years at least..
@ZackZick962 жыл бұрын
The testopause will slowly affect him.
@laurenshwarts21495 жыл бұрын
I wish I could mash the like button 10,000 times. I stood up at my desk and applauded at the end. NEVER STOP SPEAKING!!!
@anne39695 жыл бұрын
Brilliant - very reassuring to know there is some sanity in this world.
@futurelegendfilms5 жыл бұрын
This is the dream team. Two of the most eloquent thinkers of the present year. May their influence spread widely.
@patrickselden57475 жыл бұрын
What a profoundly humane and meaningful discussion - I can't praise it highly enough. Thank you very much indeed, Lionel and Douglas.
@shughy12 жыл бұрын
Am seeing this 2 years late, but so glad to hear these two trade such important viewpoints, it's a relief to hear voices of sanity.
@bloodaid Жыл бұрын
Whaaaat??? I didn't even notice I'm watching a 3 year old video!
@Sarah-with-an-H Жыл бұрын
@@bloodaid same. This video that says it’s about identity politics is actually about how socialists are actively weaponizing identity to destroy the system as we know it to usher in their Marxist utopia.
@BuceGar5 жыл бұрын
"You can't awaken someone who's pretending to sleep."
@rm93085 жыл бұрын
You should still kick them though.
@chrisc72655 жыл бұрын
"but you can draw penises on them"
@sirriffsalot41585 жыл бұрын
It's funny how everyone within the political and philosophical spectrum uses that phrase these days.. :)
@zxyatiywariii84 жыл бұрын
@@chrisc7265 Lol thanks, you made me laugh, and there's not much that makes me laugh these days. 😄👍🏽 A friend of mine has a facemask with a print comprised of penises; and as he points out, "If anyone is close enough to see what they are, they're not properly social distancing."
@pshergill015 жыл бұрын
Lionel Shriver is absolutely brilliant.
@hasanmahmud69983 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agree.
@DenTomasdo3 жыл бұрын
No surprise here, he got a male name!
@Joeyjojoshabbadoo8 ай бұрын
What is brilliant about her, she is awful. I've never been so repulsed by someone in a long time. Though I did just get through with 'We need to talk about Kevin', so I have a good excuse And she's obviously a closeted lesbian, I mean good grief. I guess I'm not surprised that she's anti-woke. Which I am too, and which almost makes me feel bad about it. She just doesn't like it because it cramps her style. That's all she cares about. I was fascinated and horrified by the novel, and now seeing her in person I don't think I've ever witnessed such an unabashedly self-centered person, from every pore in her body. Every thought, every sentiment, every utterance, is what do I want, what suits me, what pleases me, what annoys me. She's almost infantile. I never thought I'd see a woman who could top Ayn Rand in that regard, but she might have pulled it off. Anyway, I'm not a fan.
@carbonfibercrypto29195 жыл бұрын
identity politics is a way to manipulate peoples' emotions and then shield stupid ideas from criticism. end of story.
@danielhuset16265 жыл бұрын
These two people display considerable political courage in taking on these issues in a serious and intelligent fashion. Keep up the good work.
@Isclachau5 жыл бұрын
Daniel Huset very true
@carbonfibercrypto29195 жыл бұрын
@Stirgid Lanathiel i only stated a function of it, not the reason for IPs existence. so really no disagreements, bud.
@thunderstruck10785 жыл бұрын
@Stirgid Lanathiel "White Supremacy" in a country founded by White people is an oxymoron. Nations were established in order to obtain sovereignty, self-determination and their primary purpose is to protect and yes, privilege the people that founded them.
@thunderstruck10785 жыл бұрын
@Stirgid Lanathiel White is just a synonym for European, don't play dumb. Racial identity is just the one overarching various ethnic identities. Any nation's founders always have intention to secure existence and prosperity of "us and our posterity". Should Poland be more interested in Polish people than any others on this Earth? You have a completely skewed notion of racial identity. The problem is that only White people have managed to convince themselves that race is a meaningless concept, while everyone else drums their beats (e.g. South Africa and White farmers - if it was reverse it would be international scandal).
@alisonrogerson31433 жыл бұрын
I’ll say it again & again that Douglas Murray is so delightful to listen to. What a great, great intellect & always humorous! He is the perfect combination. Lionel is just brilliant also. Only wish this could be broadcast on all the tv networks. What fools humans can be! It defies belief
5 жыл бұрын
Had a lovely time at the talk, would happily attend more, bring them up North!
@davidwalsh20085 жыл бұрын
Agreed, there's an audience outside of London for this kind of debate, I wish they'd take stuff like this on the road. Enjoyed the talk.
@Jonnie-Falafel5 жыл бұрын
I'll second that plea!
@paulmurphy2165 жыл бұрын
@@davidwalsh2008 I was able to see him talk when he was here in Auckland, New Zealand. It was the tour with Cornel West and not hugely interesting as a talk but I was already a huge fan. Douglas has a small but eager following over here. The state of our 'politics' over here is such that he would never be allowed back in the country as long as our un-elected PM is in charge.Since the Christchurch shooting, anyone right of Mao Tse Tung is being viewed with suspicion. It's utterly, totally ridiculous.
@losmac10095 жыл бұрын
Haryan Gláeddyv Yes more Manchester venues
@Jonnie-Falafel5 жыл бұрын
@jules valentine Sadly Manchester got the bug. 😕
@mogznwaz5 жыл бұрын
Had tickets for this event and absolutely gutted I couldn't make it. Love them both, they keep me sane.
@jasonshields5154 жыл бұрын
As to the line spoken by Lionel “ that’s because I’m brave , or because I’m stupid...” I can tell you with certainty Lionel . It’s because you are brave . Thank you so much for speaking the things we all know to be true as Douglas says . Douglas Murray is my favorite speaker and I’m glad I was introduced to Lionel by watching Mr. Murray . Thank you both ☺️✌️
@blackcoffee.2 жыл бұрын
Lionel Shriver and Douglas Murray a dream come true. More. Once a month or every week ... daily! Thank you!
@josephm.bennett24484 жыл бұрын
43:10: "But what they really want is more privilege for themselves. It is a kind of greed, because on top of having all the money and the great education and all the status, that's not enough for them; they have to have the moral high ground." Absolutely perfect summary and, for me, a real wow moment. When Lionel said that, I just paused the video, sat back and let that thought sink in.
@digoryjohns20185 жыл бұрын
Shriver: "Those who are oppressed have no reason to become unoppressed." "The worst thing that can happen to any liberaton movement is getting what it wants." This in the first six minutes! Beautifully and succinctly put. She unfailingly puts her finger on the very essence of moral hazard and the flaw of the entire self-satisfied, parastic identity edifice, as if on a repulsive blue bottle emptying its guts onto your favourite farmhouse cheese and sucking up its fill without any appreciation of its provenance. Lionel Shriver and Douglas Murray give me hope for the future.
@dicksplat20495 жыл бұрын
I had the exact opposite response. "Those who are oppressed have no reason to become unoppressed." and then to argue that a if a charity cures the disease it 'represents' i then has to find some other way of still being relevant - I mean what utter nonsense. First recognise there is a disease and then what might cure it etc and yes if it is cured it may be hard for those involved in it all to still be relevant but these two are talking as if because of that possible negative outcome we should just allow that disease to cause all that suffering.
@daveerwin69815 жыл бұрын
Point is racism and sexism ended at close of century. We've had black president and women millionnaires. What are they complaining about? Gays can marry now. They have everything now
@dicksplat20495 жыл бұрын
@@daveerwin6981 "Point is racism and sexism ended at close of century." Was it during the millenium celebrations exactly as the clocks struck 12?
@tubetorpedo5 жыл бұрын
@@dicksplat2049 Which one of them said that we should should just allow the "disease" and where exactly?
@dicksplat20495 жыл бұрын
@@tubetorpedo At the beginning. I couldn't get through the rest. If someone wants to talk about the issue of minority rights and they don't first acknowledge the history and suffering that has been endured by said people to gain rights then it shows either casual bigotry/racism at worst or a callous disregard for said history. Start with why these movements exist and recognise the history and need for such movements and who the oppressors were THEN you would move onto your argument that it has now warped into soimething else etc.
@skywalkerneoblade5 жыл бұрын
One of the most profound conversations I have listened to in a wile. Definitely in the top 5 of 2019. Thank you Spectator.
@dominicfastbender40294 жыл бұрын
Perfect question and observation from the man that grew up in Russia. He absolutely hit the mark. A perfect question and well answered. One of the best discussions I have listened to in 2020 so far.
@hivicar3 жыл бұрын
Shriver is absolutely nailing the "woke" thing here. Her take on the well-meaning but "misguided" young people wasting precious time while being spiritually 'non-nutritious" is exactly the way more of us should see it.
@sassypantschisholm51035 жыл бұрын
Douglas, you are one of my favorite speakers. It is like laying bare my soul to listen to your thoughts and feelings on the importance of human traits and why , what , where they are going. We are losing our identity as human beings, a species that was given the gift of love , free thought and progressive intelligence. We know why it is happening and for the most part who is involved but it has gotten so massive and you express this loss in ways I feel but cannot express my fear and grief at losing that faith. It hurts, and I am not perfect but I saw tears in your eyes when you talked about how important truth was to you and I understand that.
@danielecostantini87225 жыл бұрын
Douglas Murray's finishing remark is phenomenal!
@alexandrahoward94475 жыл бұрын
What a fantastic conversation. A great pair.
@dallas9985 жыл бұрын
Great conversation! Quite a few take-aways from this one! Both Douglas and Lionel are true gems, and are both inspirational to those of us who are doing what we can to reverse this societal atrophy. I speak up at every opportunity, without fear of opprobrium from the ignorant, and I never apologize for this amazing culture which gave us everything. I trust that people of morality and sound mind will overcome all fear and do the same. Of course, I always come back to the basic solution - we must home school our kids and raise rational, caring and grounded human beings. It's a daunting task, and there is not much hope for the present cult members, but over time evil never prevails.
@pauljojo13185 жыл бұрын
I'm glad someone finally worked out the connection between identity politics and marxism. Yes, that's what is was all about from the beginning. The working class failed you, so you use other tribes to gain political capital and overcome the system. We shouldn't be shy from making that clear and obvious connection.
@sgdemeo4 жыл бұрын
Listening for second time. I love Lionel. And Douglas is a gem.
@Vickie9104 жыл бұрын
Thank you, Douglas!! Yes, let's get back to meaningful lives that create and not destroy!
@karenfornwalt92355 жыл бұрын
'Don't agree to lies, and don't agree to things that are untrue ' Douglas Murray.
@Doutsoldome5 жыл бұрын
We need to talk about Lionel: she is a lioness!
@fredericstevens0865 жыл бұрын
Almost as good as Ann Coulter!
@bryankinney15 жыл бұрын
she's cool as fuck, innit?
@lauraswartz37815 жыл бұрын
She stiles me as a person who has arrived at a point in life where she is ready, willing, and able to make up her own mind and speak it clearly. A very attractive quality.
@cioccolateriaveneziana4 жыл бұрын
@@fredericstevens086 Well, there are some differences. Lionel Shriver: well thought-through arguments, respect to opponents... Ann Coulter: aggressivity, repetitiveness, narrow mind...
@shanjanusman99745 жыл бұрын
Douglas Murray is just an amazing commentator and speaker
@borderlord5 жыл бұрын
Reupload with higher volume!! I've got mine on max and it's still low!
@possessionfriend9464 жыл бұрын
Yes, defineley Higher volume
@solocyclist39935 жыл бұрын
Thank you Douglas and Lional for an amazing adult discussion worth listening to.
@hangingaround29545 жыл бұрын
Thoroughly enjoyed this. After reading The Madness of Crowds I find myself seeing the trans movement being pushed in all walks of life. It’s terrifying.
@hangingaround29545 жыл бұрын
Black Philip pushed by the mainstream media, the left, the universities and schools, the so called elites. Control of speech and control of the way people think is ultimately very dangerous and we need to resist it.
@eccremocarpusscaber51595 жыл бұрын
NorCal OntheRight yes, mainly because other women vilify the women that do speak out as being transphobic and whatever other name they can come up with. I think men are just used to being hated at this point.
@boudecia224 жыл бұрын
@NorCal OntheRight thats the point. Largely trans movement activists are men to women converts. These are the ones attacking women.. But as Lionel quite rightly pointed out, the real vociferous loud mouths are liberal, privileged often straight people, who feel a need to be heard and jump on the latest trend. I work with a young man, privileged, university graduate. He told me he's bisexual then said "I'm probably leaning more towards straight". I mentioned this talk to him. Specifically about the cancel culture - Germaine greer being told she's not a feminist because she won't accept that men can't have babies and ergo can't have periods. He SHRUGGED and looked at me as if to say... well you are wrong. Lmao. I had to explain the whole trans process to him as he DOESNT know what it entails. But then followed it with, "I have a few trans friends". As if thats enough to QUALIFY him as RIGHT. He attaches himself to every minority group he can, and advertises his own weaknesses and failings just like these two talked about, as if its enough in itself to characterize him. He quotes everything he sees on Twitter as fact, and takes large amounts of his time to explain to me why HISTORICAL FACT is a lie. This young man is UTTERLY BRAINWASHED, and genuinely believes everything he says to be true, moral, and right. Its quite depressing how closed his mind is for such a young intelligent man. But for the trans groups, women are their target because no amount of surgery or hormones will enable them to be women in the true sense of the word. Ie: motherhood. It is a form of envy. Its funny but so frustrating.
@patricktinkl49963 жыл бұрын
@@boudecia22 honestly i feel that ftm-trans people are far less active exactly because they're less visible in the first place. Men for the most part don't attack trans men in public discourse, discussions about bath rooms are almost exclusively about trans women, the fetishisation of trans people is mostly aimed at trans women and so on. Also, they often pass easier, which plays a part, too.
@jameseverett49762 жыл бұрын
@@blackphilip8936 "And pushed by who exactly?" By Leftist leaders, politicians and spokespeople, exactly. "Who controls those information delivery systems? " The Leftist Media, Leftist politicians, George Soros, the public government-run schools, teachers unions. "And who benefits?" Leftist organizations, Leftist fund raisers & donors, Leftist politicians and the government institutions they instigated and run, like planned parenthood. But the main goal is the destabilization of society, which pushes more power into the hands of Leftist politicians, elitist families and donors who's goal it is to destroy America and it's constitution, so that there will be no middle class, only extremely rich and extremely poor. Then depopulation, so that the world can be more easily managed by the Elite, with no challenge to their power.
@mickvd43 жыл бұрын
Words can't describe how amazing i found this talk
@beastiebear7231 Жыл бұрын
This was over three years ago! Still one of the best breakdowns of this jazz
@Sarah-with-an-H Жыл бұрын
It’s actually just scratching the surface
@abigailslade38245 жыл бұрын
Lionel might not be soft and passive but she sure is smart and razor sharp with her wit, in fact the verbal sparring between these two great thinkers is sublime to listen to.
@angusmcangus79145 жыл бұрын
How do we deal with this? Ridicule would be a start.
@stanw9095 жыл бұрын
Close down most Universities.
@stanw9095 жыл бұрын
Except S.T.E.M. . Liberal Arts is dead .
@megmartel60055 жыл бұрын
Stan - the nuttiness is creeping into STEM unfortunately. When they take over there it's all over
@stanw9095 жыл бұрын
@@megmartel6005 So far , that pesky math is keeping them at bey , but the new trope " Math is racist " is catching on so you never can tell .
@undefinedfreedom85804 жыл бұрын
Angus McAngus , then the police comes to you for hate speech.
@MrTom13795 жыл бұрын
Roughly translated and condensed, the west is going nuts 🥜
@jumbo4billion5 жыл бұрын
We always have been really, this is the latest form of our madness.
@NZAnimeManga5 жыл бұрын
Going?
@hesus61775 жыл бұрын
...going nuts 'by design'. !
@forthfarean5 жыл бұрын
@@autofill1566 Don't worry, it will. You might not like the way it does end, but it will end.
@megmartel60055 жыл бұрын
MrTom - the West is being deliberately sent mad by the Lunatic Globalists and their useful idiots.
@lindamellingen59775 жыл бұрын
I am so grateful for your talks. It is such a relief to listen to people of great intellect, and who are rational and down to earth.
@ginabideau37485 жыл бұрын
Douglas ,you were a star on Radio Four this morning ,31st Oct; with Nick Robinson,you made my morning.x
@polemicpeasant46755 жыл бұрын
Fantastic evening. I'm looking forward to similar events in the future.
@NewsHistorian4 жыл бұрын
This conversation is shockingly prescient considering what 2020 had in store for us.
@ingelaolsson29574 жыл бұрын
Yes sadly.
@OlaEriksson15 жыл бұрын
First of all..a great enlighten discussion. Thank you. The closing remarks of Mr Murray was none other then a optimistic battle cry for a britghter future for our communities, nations and..us humans. Again thank you.. I apologize for my poor English
@EnterPoet4 жыл бұрын
Do not ever apologize for "poor English". You do not owe the English speaking audience anything. In fact you should post in your native tongue. We have Google Translate.
@fabiesque Жыл бұрын
Douglas never bores me for a second. He is spectacular. I adore his ideas and his manner.
@oyemate86474 жыл бұрын
I came for Douglas, but stayed for Lionel, what an inspiring person!
@Grimscribe7325 жыл бұрын
I wonder why not mention Heather Heying, Ayan Hirsi Ali, Debrah Soh etc. when talking about women in the IDW?
@EnterPoet4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this, I am so hungry now for other sane intellectuals from whom I may learn like Douglas and Lionel.
@kevinhammond23614 жыл бұрын
Lionel so quickly shot down his example of CH Summers that I don't think Douglas wanted to bother going down that line of argument, he probably thought it wouldn't be productive and Lionel had a point anyway. I agree re: those 3 though, they are IDW
@bridge59995 жыл бұрын
Thank God for these conversations. Hard questions. Thoughtful & deeply engaging exploration by two brave people. Why is this so rare in our times? I think the metaphor for clearing a pathway for others is incredibly valid & exemplifies a great deal of humility because of the sacrifice & potential ridicule. Murray & Shriver point the way out, in their own way, as to how to get out from the Shadow of the Progressive Movement. What was once an honest, respectable attempt at shedding light on lesser-known voices and perspectives has blown out into what has been rightly coined the Oppression Olympics. Differences between races, class & the sexes should be explored, embraced and appreciated, not weaponized. Keep up the great work & God Bless & protect.
@nathanhirst974 жыл бұрын
It’s so wonderful to watch two people have a meaningful discussion. Brilliant talk!
@anthonylondon33665 жыл бұрын
Funny when Murray wraps his aversion to Islam and multiculturalism in intellectual jargon its OK....but when Tommy Robinson provides an rawer version its an criminal offense.
@wolfwind15 жыл бұрын
True. Robinson has been such a target. His appearance at the Oxford Union was very powerful.
@raymondturner14785 жыл бұрын
Tommy Robinson believes in multiculturalism though. That what infuriates me about his supporters. They spend 90% of their time trying to convince lefties that they aren't racist rather than hammering home the point that by the end of this century white Brits will be a minority in their own country. So basically Tommy Robinson supporters are useless if they don't talk about this. What do you think Anthony ?
@MarcusAureliusAntoninus7705 жыл бұрын
Tommy has the wrong accent. Sometimes uses the wrong words. Didn't go to university. The hate for Tommy is thinly disguised class hate.
@therealtoni5 жыл бұрын
They are both right!
@Nick-hk2vz5 жыл бұрын
@James Registe what an incredibly stupid comment
@shokuchideirdrecarrigan740211 ай бұрын
Amazing stimulating conversation! I have admired Douglas Murray for sometime now. I am gratified to meet Lionel Shriver in this event-a rare equal verbally and energetically to Murray.
@dawnoliver20155 жыл бұрын
Wow, Douglas you gave me hope that this can be turned around.
@thunderstruck10785 жыл бұрын
How? He never offers any real solutions, except to beg the left to "stop and think what they are doing", or something to that effect.
@LuisCarruthers5 жыл бұрын
@@thunderstruck1078 I like Douglas a lot but you are right. He more just says we ought to be focusing on more meaningful things. He doesn't say how we'll get there.
@thunderstruck10785 жыл бұрын
@@LuisCarruthers This is what being a conservative should mean: kzbin.info/www/bejne/e4XIXpmQe7GegZI
@cdcaleo5 жыл бұрын
@@LuisCarruthers Douglas is not the Second Coming. He doesn't have all the answers, nor should he. Stand up and speak out when you know something is false, or someone is hiding behind identity politics to further an agenda. Don't just go along to get along. Do this in your immediate circles. If all of us did this, it would pop the bubble that the hard left is living in.
@LuisCarruthers5 жыл бұрын
@@cdcaleo That's a good point. There isn't some magic answer. I felt bad when Lionel Shriver mentioned 'pregnant people'. Recently I was in a situation where I should have spoken out against that but didn't. It's not someone else's job.
@greenbank4800 Жыл бұрын
Affirmative effort and professional ability not affirmative action deserves reward.
@room2growrose6235 жыл бұрын
So good to hear this conversation going on in Britain.
@M49-x9k2 жыл бұрын
There is hope for all of us just listen to the common sense from these two brilliant ppl.
@drmarlat12013 жыл бұрын
The voice of common sense. Nice to see this chap with a true English accent :)
@Elaine-tk7nx Жыл бұрын
Such a rare treat to hear two incredibly astute and articulate voices on the madness of these dangerous, modern phenomenon of identity politics. I totally agree with Douglas's point about the phrase "saying this as a..." People are always starting sentences with this ridiculous opening statement.
@jrenreygo61254 жыл бұрын
Both are brilliant thinkers. Thank you for such an enriching conversation.
@wakeupuk38605 жыл бұрын
To Lionael and Douglas thank you so much both of you for this video and other efforts to bring common sense back into this world and by your efforts allowing society to overcome this 'madness' that has descended upon us by minorities. Totally agree with everything you say and was cheering and shouting "Yes" as I listen to you while painting a room.
@johnmorton10265 жыл бұрын
Thank you to Douglas and Lionel and the Spectator for a very interesting and entertaining discussion.
@jeanacastelli97215 ай бұрын
So uplifting to listen to two people who speak sense in this ever confusing world. So refreshing and gives us hope for a more “sane” world. Brilliant minds!
@golkeeper85175 жыл бұрын
always on your side Murray!!
@Slarti5 жыл бұрын
Émile Zola's J'accuse is probably one of the first examples of well known literature pointing out the insanity of groups.
@Isobel31Swan4 жыл бұрын
I think it has got worse.1:36 I thiught that COVID-19 would stop the identity politics but it has got worse with the BLM.
@boudecia224 жыл бұрын
Just had a row with someone berating a bullying a British guy on KZbin, who happens to be black, for not calling himself African british. In the end he came out with it... "I just want you to agree with me". There it is. But don't despair... the vast majority of people don't buy this crap. The medua just want you to believe that.
@jayveebloggs90572 жыл бұрын
would love to meet Lionel Shriver... The Kevin book is just out of this world...
@Christian-mt8fv4 жыл бұрын
That was 1.5hrs brilliantly spent!!! I so needed to hear this as I am one of the "disillusioned & dejected" so sick of having this woke crap and virtue signalling stuffed down my throat.
@lauracwhitney10 ай бұрын
You have both brought up a frightening subject which has concerned me heavily, but I did not have the vocabulary to describe it myself. I am so relieved that you both have the guts to bring up this connected series of behaviors. I shall save this video because it will be necessary for me to replay several times to grasp what is fueling this quite disturbing storm and what to do about it. I have no hint of how to slow it down. Thank you both.
@lauracwhitney10 ай бұрын
Also, Identity Politics fills me with dread.
@charlesdavidrobertson97835 жыл бұрын
Two of my favorites together. Oh, this is too good to be true! Nancy Robertson
@benbunyip2 жыл бұрын
Lionel Shriver is brilliant. I didn’t know of her until tonight.
@gareth35665 жыл бұрын
“Choo Choo here comes the train analogy” I say as I realise I watched too much Douglas Murray on KZbin
@user-lx3oi6xy2e4 жыл бұрын
Haha, when he spoke about gay hardware, I was anticipating 'Lady Gaga Born This Way' and along it came!
@histinkerbell13 жыл бұрын
Excellent lecture. Very warm and compassionate. Greatly appreciated.
@jeeed63905 жыл бұрын
Why have we not heard from Lionel before?
@spiritualpolitics82054 жыл бұрын
Excellent meeting of the minds between two of my favorite thinkers... (Not since Paglia and Peterson have met have I been so entranced by two intellectuals.) This gets most fascinating when they start discussing why there aren't more women in the IDW speaking out... (~50:00). Douglas's thesis that women are disproportionately bullied by PC bullies is an idea I had never considered, but it makes real sense. There is enormous pressure on women not to speak out against these fascists, that goes well beyond the "agreeableness" debate. They may well be facing even more social sanction than do men, and men who are feeling isolated members of the IDW should realize this paradox. Shriver's "Disgust and envy go together; that's counter-intuitive..." is brilliant. (Douglas also gamely took a nice punch back from Shriver around 1:02:00, and then generously opened the floor to questions without responding in kind, which represents a sort of composure I'm not sure I've ever seen. I think he could have replied that Shriver was largely right about most practitioners of identity politics being naifs and genuine people whose thirst for justice was tragically misplaced, but otherwise good people -- but that there was a tiny minority of intellectuals in our universities coining phrases like "rape culture" who are not so innocent or good, but who are rather helping to drive the masses into this group-think...)
@cecilcharlesofficial4 жыл бұрын
Any chance you'd just go ahead and re-upload this video today? We need this now.
@75thBeatle5 жыл бұрын
So glad to finally see this!
@hubrisnaut5 жыл бұрын
"not knowing what you are talking about is a big assist for these people" -Lionel Shriver
@robertkelleher18503 жыл бұрын
This was extraordinary, and thoughtful. It feels like nothing has changed in the last two years.
@pennst985 жыл бұрын
youtube is sabotaging this discussion. I have had an ad about every 5 minutes. After the 10th I am having trouble loading it
@StartsWithMeChannel5 жыл бұрын
It’s not KZbin it’s The Spectator
@roryspeirs68815 жыл бұрын
Skip it right to the end and then replay it. Ad free! 😉
@philliphayden27275 жыл бұрын
@@roryspeirs6881 really? I'll try it out.
@philliphayden27275 жыл бұрын
@@roryspeirs6881 Holy cow, it works! Tyvm Rory.
@Notallowed1015 жыл бұрын
Look into using Brave internet browser.
@wmurray6894 жыл бұрын
When the chappy asked a question about disenfranchisement, I loved how both Douglas and Lionel adjusted their seating positions and leaned in.
@thunderstruck10785 жыл бұрын
OK, so how do we make sure our children still have a place to call home?
@philliphayden27275 жыл бұрын
Give them a home, and teach them well.
@tezuttley5 жыл бұрын
In an ideal world: promote the values of all nationalities and cultures then offer voluntary repatriation.
@perrywidhalm1145 жыл бұрын
Write down your address and telephone number then give it to them .... duh.
@thunderstruck10785 жыл бұрын
@@whiterationalism4253 It's easy to say that, but how do we get there?
@AminTheMystic5 жыл бұрын
I like how no one bought Murray is anti all this ID politics. Rather he is a White racist just like you. Superb!
5 жыл бұрын
Both are very good, thank you Douglas. You are what you do, not what you say, you are not your beliefs, you are how you behave. there is your identity, live for function not just for fun.
@casbahowl81285 жыл бұрын
I enjoyed this. Well done Spectator
@ammonite40010 ай бұрын
Brilliant talk!
@dlmetzger5 жыл бұрын
Our western culture has been descending into matriarchy. The over-concern for the victim is a feminine perspective. The idea that we live in a patriarchy is dripping with irony.
@ienekevanhouten45595 жыл бұрын
DESCENDING into matriarchy? Don’t we wish! I support the push back against identity politics, but no, patriarchy continues.
@fotoyartefotoyarte10445 жыл бұрын
nope, because that has to do with different issues/variables. you will see a decrease in women killings when you: improve education, devrease poverty, teach women to use guns and be very aware of danger at any time
@Narsufin5 жыл бұрын
@who up Many men killed everywhere every week in many and various circumstances. When you're killed, you're dead. All lives matter. We can't dissect and prioritise one group over another, as if one group is better and more privileged.
@megmartel60055 жыл бұрын
A matriarchy would be disastrous. I notice feminists always banging on about "gender pay gap" - deliberately ignoring hours worked & time off (maternity leave etc). By law you can't pay one sex more than the other for the same work & hours. Women work less hours & do different jobs. They also want "gender equality" - more women on boards & senior positions, preferring quotas to merit. I don't see them advocating for equal representation in labouring/ ditch digging. Socialists attach the word "equality" to anything to get people to agree to their madness. Most people at university now are women. This push for all women into tertiary education & full-time work, as well as delaying/omitting childbirth will be the end of Western civilisation. Others will out breed us, especially since we are bringing in the 3rd world by the millions. Our elites have no more use for their huge middle class & seem to be going out of their way to destroy us. No monarch of old would allow millions of foreigners into their country.
@johngreco58135 жыл бұрын
The second statement you made is quite false. One empirical refutation would be that female judges tend to hand out stricter sentences, particularly when the defendant is female. I don't think you can ever be too concerned about a true victim, so you are wrong there. But what you might have meant is this: we should not overextend the definition of "victim" to include people who are not really victims. And that is definitely happening nowadays.
@dallas9984 жыл бұрын
Most excellent interview, several important descriptions of what Identity Politics, especially Douglas Murray's summary in the last couple of minutes.
@misodinamosa4 жыл бұрын
This was exceptional, thank you!
@michaelneo502 жыл бұрын
min20+: what a grateful & wholesome look on the entire world... thank you very much for expressing and defining the positivities which do exist by being an curious individual among healthy individuals... Actually I have joy, confidence and I am kind of "proud" to take part of an experience in this (!) moment... ...finding out the best moment this weekend is a show on youtube, hosted by a serious british gay interviewing an american Lady speaking from the heart of a disillussioned but still curious, heterosexual guy in superficial germany. I really thank you so much. Douglas... pleez... just stay as you are. You are an idol by the way you do the things how you do them. Peace.
@marklambert27775 жыл бұрын
"Has its wicked cuttlefish way" ............ :) :) :)
@hellsbells20285 жыл бұрын
Perfect analogy. Was spot on.
@mikehiggins9462 жыл бұрын
Listen from 40:30 to 43:30. Lionel does what great thinkers do and breaks down the whole I.P., SJ movement in clear, understandable terms. Brilliant!
@lefroy14 жыл бұрын
Spectator: When you upload these, can you increase the output-volume a bit? I can hear it when nearby my computer, but these discussions are excellent things to have on in the background.
@DK-yq5nx5 жыл бұрын
Goodness, two adults who discuss contentious issues, disagree, and move on with grace and elegance, instead of try to shut each other down with vitriol and personal attacks. Excellent discussion about complex issues by two adults who have their heads screwed in right.
@khattiseitap33675 жыл бұрын
I could never figure out Noam Chomsky and his uncritical opposition to his country, and then Lionel Shriver explained it perfectly: narcissism.
@plusaura30472 жыл бұрын
Thank you once more for the insights. I haven’t watched every single recording put up here however this one is quite low. In volume. Please consider this for the future. Listening from airport lounges, planes etc 😅
@justad10185 жыл бұрын
Great conversation. Are very welcome piece of content. Thank you.
@kyles708711 ай бұрын
I hope both of you return to Brisbane, flights are expensive.. This is one of the many great conversations of our time, thank you.
@ladylyonteeth39525 жыл бұрын
I’ve got a crush on Douglas, even if he is British.
@cathhall20154 жыл бұрын
He is Homosexual ,sadly for us Women lol.
@davidsexton66044 жыл бұрын
I don't believe in gods and things , but l thank them all , every day for people like Douglas Murry .