Idoneth Deepkin 2022 Review - Warhammer Weekly 03092022

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, things are getting fishy as we review the new Idoneth Deepkin Book and take a deep dive into thier perilous aethersea of new rules. Sharks.
0:00 News
19:00 Pick of the Week
24:30 Hobby Time
34:16 IDK Overview
51:05 Allegiance
1:41:45 Enclaves
2:03:00 GS&BT
2:05:00 Warscrolls
3:32:00 Lists
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[@lukask7887]

Tell me you worship Slaanesh without telling me you worship Slaanesh: "Today we're talking about wet elves"

[@VinceVenturella]

You're not wrong.

[@alexblair5288]

The Vampirate thesis was incredible. Fun show Vince! Thumbs up.

[@VinceVenturella]

Thanks!

[@QuantumCat76]

@@VinceVenturella m

[@12pigeons-in-a-trench-coat]

Tyler painting is the positive story that 2022 desperately needed.

[@VinceVenturella]

It's true.

[@MirelurkCakes]

Constantinos is the perfect guest. Knowledgeable, funny and most importantly good audio quality.

[@VinceVenturella]

We agree!

[@dunevader3493]

After the vampirates thesis I think we should start a petition to move IDK from Order to Death

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm for this.

[@Dje1025]

As Constantinos said, them being in Order is why they get everything!

[@elias1579]

The AOS family is a good family. The community is booming locally and nationally

[@VinceVenturella]

100%

[@jfoerster]

Team Tomler is my favorite! ;) THANK YOU Tyler for being the voice of reason in this crazy world of AoS. Many things in this book is beyond bonkers. The amount of damage in the game right now is way too high. Even the toughest pieces will be blown away. And that feels weird. Megabosses, god and demi-god models should not be that easy to shift. Battleline units are made for being blown up by hard hammers and anvils should be able to take a hammer. But some hammers are just too much.

[@VinceVenturella]

It's strong, I guess time will tell on this one.

[@CrazyTom34]

As a fellow teacher I give the vampirate thesis top marks, well argued and supported. Fantastic job connecting evidence back to claim.

[@VinceVenturella]

It was just amazing, he sold me.

[@ProrokLebioda]

Great review and discussion! Constantinos is a great hobbyist! I really liked his chat with AoS Coach (can't remember which faction). IDK are really interesting now. When they first dropped I like most of their models. Especially Reavers, such a dynamic looking sculpts. What I couldn't really pin point is why I wasn't keen on eel models. What I think is the reason: their pose. I get it that they are on the hunt, but when you take a look at enclaves' artwork you see them looking more like a seahorse. For some reason I like that pose more. Guess there is still an option using 3d print ;) I've starter LRL some time ago, but it goes slowly. Can't get myself to paint them, only started painting Shrine, which is a cool terrain piece. I've started a 3d printed Mummified Undead to count-as SBGL. Mummies are nice stand-in for Zombies, Priests for Necromancers. As for the comment about Khorne going to the sea: Dethklok Go Into The Water started playing in my head :D Followed by same band, but this time song "Murmaider". I highly recommend last one for IDK players to play during High Tide

[@VinceVenturella]

Amazing, I love the playlist kicking off when this is happening!

[@RoccoYaBoy]

These puns are just amazing

[@VinceVenturella]

Truly amazing.

[@Junius01]

I just want to leave a comment to: 1) Help you with the KZbin Algorithm 2) Say that I really liked your guest. I had never heard of him, and he comes with interesting takes. His mic isn't the greatest though. All in all, a very enjoyable video! If I ever start a 4th army, that it'd probably be this one (other option would be bonereapers), but before that, I need to reduce my pile of shame drastically.

[@VinceVenturella]

Reducing the pile of shame is always an honorable pursuit. :)

[@HammerofWar]

I really liked the discussion. Thanks guys! I believe this IDK BT will be a meta changer for sure, and that is actually good, on the short term. If IDK shows up more at tournaments (I'm sure it will), you will see SCE, Seraphon, etc lists shift a bit, for sure. Again, variety of playing styles and strenghts is always good for balance. On the other hand, these anti-meta tools might prove too specific as the game evolves, so I wonder if this book will age as well as the other one did. I agree some allegiance abilities and traits sound a bit too strong compared to others, but I honestly believe, apart from one or two possible exploit opportunities - that will go away with time and FAQs - (set up a boat during the game, dhom haim shenanigans) that it's not broken. Idoneth still feels very much like a do or die army. There is no try, you do it, or you do not. And make no mistake, you have to know what you're doing, because you won't solve most problems from afar. You have to get into the thick of it. And remember, even at 2+ 2+, most rerolls are gone, and mounts do not benefit from most of the buffs to hit and to wound or extra attacks. This will be felt, especially when you need to get those last wounds through, trust me. (long-time IDK player speaking) I do believe some things will be FAQ'd, namely the king-high tide spam nonsense. This is fair, and hopefully will tweak the army back into what it's supposed to be: a very thematic, different, innovatively-designed and pro-active army.

[@VinceVenturella]

Good thoughts all around and we all hope for the obvious FAQ> :)

[@kalzacreations]

Amazing !!! Hahaha that explanation of Vampirates was Class! My Vote for best guest of 2022 goes to Constantino!!

[@VinceVenturella]

It was truly amazing.

[@BeefyCrunch]

Hey guys 1 thing about the thrall master. The riptide. 6s are exploding is only 1 unit. The other 2 effects are for him and all namarti units ww 12. Makes the re roll 1s meaning ful if you can squeeze 2 units around him. Great video again!

[@VinceVenturella]

This is true, I should have mentioned that, I was just assuming you'd only have 1 unit, but you are right.

[@the_hybred648]

Just started my AoS army and went with IdK. So far I have two start collecting and the high king. What else I need to grab for an offensive list?

[@VinceVenturella]

I would depend on the exact list you want, there are multiple options for sure. Something like sharks, some eels and a turtle are all certainly on the table.

[@emilymegan40]

It’s like that mind/brain meme: panel one deepkin are vampires, panel two deepkin are vampirates, panel three definition of corrasion 🤯

[@VinceVenturella]

Completely.

[@Mithlinthar]

Also... Can Eidolon use Flaming Weapon on 2d6 fish attack? I know, it's not a great profile but... Potential 12 attacks with 2 DMG feels fun.

[@danielo9141]

Dragged into the tumble drier! Its a companion attack in the warscroll so it doesn't become a heated piranhado unfortunately

[@Mithlinthar]

@@danielo9141 well, there's a FAQ that says "you can use this spell on mounts" so....I don't know...

[@danielo9141]

@@Mithlinthar oh mannnnn that's awesome! Washing machine storm aspect inbound...

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, the FAQ would allow this, you can have fire fish.

[@p-chan3319]

The elf bias is running strong with the design team, that is for sure. Daughter / IDK / Lumineth. If they make Sylvaneth busted next while putting a bad KO Battletome i swear i will only play my stunties in Bloodbowl. The nail in the coffin would be not ever releasing Chaos dwarves again. Regards, a poor dwarf player :)

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think it's a result of the very top down design focus, it's something I want to do a show on sometime.

[@Kittenmarines]

@@VinceVenturella by top down design focus, do you mean that GW is going to focus more on model ranges that sell higher volumes? Haven't heard that term before in gaming.

[@VinceVenturella]

@@Kittenmarines Nope, it's a design methodology, I have a video on it here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ3GiIZ4j694pJY

[@tomedwardsconcepts]

A little late, but the Dom Hain redeploy for three units - does each unit have to be in range of an enemy to do it? Or can a unit of thralls just move d6?

[@VinceVenturella]

Good question! no idea. For Orruks, they basically said anything goes, so I assume the same here.

[@tomedwardsconcepts]

@@VinceVenturella Thanks, Vince. I'll bear that in mind if this comes up

[@BarokaiRein]

I'm quite happy about the book,not just because one of my upcoming armies has been 3d printed knight army,which I've always planned with idoneth rules in mind because I think they have the most interesting cavalry ATM but also because my really silly Hallowheart army with 3 battlemages,two hurricanums with wizards and a freeguild general with tome should actually do pretty well against the faction thanks to being able to cast 12 spells every damn round,all buffed with arcane channelling. Also army-wide ignore spells and endless spells on 5+ pretty neat because there's gonna be more spellcasters in the meta soon so this book really plays into maybe making that stupid but fun to play list of mine actually competitive.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yeah, I think it's real potential in the book.

[@jordivermeulen2519]

I disagree with the take on the Akhelian King's Lord of Tides ability being activated multiple times if you have more than one, because the ability is not used by the model, but rather activates within some distance of models with this ability. "Once per battle do X for Y units within Z of a unit with this ability" clearly precludes using it a second time. The Treelord Ancient's Silent Communion is the same: "Once per battle (...) pick 1 friendly model with this ability". It's a very different wording from "normal" once per battle abilities, which say something like "Once per battle, do X for Y units withing Z of *this unit/model*".

[@VinceVenturella]

I understand where people are going with this, I mean, we are going to get an FAQ, I just don't see it, in fact, the way they wrote it, one of them boradcasts it to all of them (again, I understand where you are coming from, but that's just not the words they actually used). Now, I WANT your interpretation to become correct, but most people reading that rule are going to read it as one per, because that's what the language commuinicates. If we have to jump through these hoops, it's a) a badly written rule and b) needing an FAQ - but importantly, even if it goes the way we all obviously think it should (limited to 1) it's still CRAZY powerful.

[@jordivermeulen2519]

@@VinceVenturella I agree it should be cleaned up in an FAQ. But consider the following rule: "Once per battle, heal 1 wound allocated to a unit within 12" of a unit with this ability." Would you argue you can use this multiple times if you had more than one unit with such an ability? I would say no: the second time you try to use it, you have already healed a wound within 12" of a unit with this ability. Using it again would violate the "once per battle" stipulation. I do agree that you don't have to target from the same Akhelian King for a single invocation. I actually think this is a cool buff for taking multiple: you only get to use it once, but you can spread it out over the battlefield.

[@thomasd2851]

Thanks Tyler for being sensible - These rules are not just "ok", they are horrific. I was losing my shit about 20 min into the show thinking "oh this cant get much worse" well spoiler, it absolutely can. IDK was an awful book to play against previously and I was hoping the likes of IDK and LRL would be reeled back with their new 3rd edition books but seems the ability/rule bloat will continue for some armies. The new IDK book is such a hard rock-paper-scissor book which is awful for the game. This is not how I wanted them to fix the "shooting meta". Turns out they will also be absolutely brutal for combat armies.

[@VinceVenturella]

I am very conflicted on this book. I am afraid its too strong, but not generically so with the points. I think in the hands of an average player, it might do okay and just be strong, toward the top and in bounds, but in the hands of skilled players, it will be outrageous, this concerns me.

[@jjnumber10]

Really good guest and show this week x

[@VinceVenturella]

Konstantinos was wonderful.

[@Birdmanesp92]

Thanks for the shout out to Six Def! I'm the King is a jam!

[@VinceVenturella]

It really is an amazing song.

[@drzephy]

Damn, I'm sold on the vampirate thesis. I'm kinda surprised you havent pulled the trigger on a more timmy IDK army that leans heavily into the vampirates theme Vince. ^_^

[@VinceVenturella]

I mean, he had a compelling argument.

[@People3004]

As much as I would love the rumor engine to CHORFS, part of me thinks it could be a new troggoth hag (With baby trogg) or a new dragon ogre shaggoth (Who has the little dudes on the back) (Also. Tyler? painting? Is he ok? Great news! )

[@VinceVenturella]

Tyler painting is the true big news.

[@OscarLars]

Amazing argument for moist vampirates... I am 100% on board and now feel like a shark army is a possibility for me in the future.. great show as always guys #teamtyler

[@VinceVenturella]

Thanks! (That argument is truly great)

[@Mithlinthar]

About the Dhom-Hain attacking in the High Tide - In my opinion there's a strange interaction in this rule. The core rules say that you should follow the order of actions - Strike First units start, then there is normal Combat, and finally there are Fight Last units. If the Thrall do another charge and combat at the end of the combat phase, they do so after Normal Combat and Fight Last. Can they actually use Fight First, outside the order imposed by Core Rules?

[@VinceVenturella]

They don't fight at the end of the phase, they fight the next time you have an elegible unit to fight, which is immediately in high tide.

[@Isaac-zq8vt]

I want to start an IDK army but it seems to be too much nerfed... i don't want to play competitive but they are strong yet?? I love the eel's but they are playable?

[@VinceVenturella]

Hopefully you saw here, still very playable, maybe too strong honestly, but yep, in a good place for sure.

[@Isaac-zq8vt]

@@VinceVenturella maybe too or not too strong you mean?

[@jrrgimli5378]

@@Isaac-zq8vt maybe too strong. They got really powerful with this book, and haven't recieved much in the way of nerfs. I think they are easily going to be able to compete with the biggest winners in the current meta, but will probably be too strong compared to the armies that dont perform well in the current meta

[@elias1579]

I’ll paint a table for you guys, I’m no slouch with a paintbrush. I’ve won several local painting competitions and best army.

[@TylerEmerson]

Cool, thanks, Elias! Just shoot a message to WH Weekly's email (above in the show description).

[@VinceVenturella]

Email me at the show and I'll forward along. :)

[@Tankbrusher]

Vince any chance you giving us a speedpainting Fyreslayers inpiration. HC215 is not viable for a hole army at my skillset and time available.

[@VinceVenturella]

So I know Tom uses one of my early ones on speed painting flesh on his fyreslayers to great results.

[@ThePingouin2ter]

Great episode. Tyler felt a bit quiet though, glad he got more vocal in the last section.

[@VinceVenturella]

I think he wanted to give the guest room, plus, this is tough book to read. (like read it's power level).

[@iiirjw]

Four hour IDK show!!!!!! Yay!

[@VinceVenturella]

It's packed full. :)

[@ptvptv3827]

Wow we went deep with Vampirates in this one, loved it 😂

[@VinceVenturella]

He really brought it.

[@VoltekCastles]

Where is Hey Woahs Fyreslayer review you mentioned? Thanks

[@People3004]

Its on the Heywoah twitch channel. In his vods : www.twitch.tv/videos/1418780063 (Review starts at 1 hour 12 mins ;-) )

[@VoltekCastles]

@@People3004 thanks

[@VinceVenturella]

Looks like they have you covered!

[@beardhammerwargaming]

TTT Team Tom and Tyler here we go =D

[@VinceVenturella]

There you go.

[@baynenothos]

10:10 Hey hey hey.... I do occasionally also consider sticking 2 banner nerds on different objectives for an easy battletactic.

[@VinceVenturella]

THere you go. ;) - The griffon and that. :)

[@Goon94]

I really enjoyed your guest, you should have this guy back sometime!

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh, we will have him back for sure. :)

[@Thaumatolgist]

1:38:50 the only case where that neg rend floor might come into play is with BoC and the Herdstone since the bonus rend is not on their warscroll you could reduce rend from one to zero but they’d still have rend from the stone no?

[@VinceVenturella]

That's a really interesting case, you might be right there.

[@codybailey1216]

This is not the 5 hours that Tyler promised me.

[@VinceVenturella]

Total rip off. ;)

[@redsven7624]

Great coverage, and interesting conclusions that a well-designed book is potentially going to be dominant. Might be me but last round of books have kinda caused me to disconnect, I am not enthused by the direction game seems to be going -the encouragement to spam certain units as sub-faction design, and the fact one army pushes the idea of the game should be done in 3 turns is off putting. If you want a game done in 3 turns, design it around 3 turns. Spam happens as is without incentivising it. Main army is Nighthaunt but honestly no interest in the tome before it is out, going to paint minis, play other games and when I get an army fully finished will see where the game is then. Will probably keep watching as honestly the discussion is good and engaging and its a good medium for keeping a feel for the game. Keep up the good work

[@VinceVenturella]

I do think we are going to get a fun and compelling book with NIghthaunt.

[@querldox9300]

In many ways AoS 3 is the best version of the game yet - the monster powers were a good addition, and the (so far) leaning into the lore (see Nurgle) is excellent. But 'out-of-phase' anything is simply a broken concept at the start, and if the majority of games are ending after 2 to 3 turns then the rules are 'broken'. It's almost not worth the time to design a list and set up a table to end a game after 2 or 3 turns. So there's a disconnect between the base rules, the army rules, and the battle plans - and it is probably the army rules that are most at fault. Trying to make 25 different armies unique is a daunting and perhaps impossible task.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes, it's funny because we have a situation of the best of times and the worst of time simultaeously (or if not the worst, that might be strong, at least some strong head winds).

[@patnoon5477]

Very exciting AoS news lately! Amazingly, the Arena of Shades box has the DoK units I need to get my DoK to 2000 pts(after I repair the Cauldron of Blood that my cat shattered) and my wife can finally have the Nighthaunt units she needs for 2000, so that worked out perfectly. Then there's the Verminlord I just built, putting my Skaven to 2000, so theyre ready for that new Battletome! I plan on doing LOTS of in-store gaming at the FLGS(Guardtower West in Columbus, OH) this summer! :)

[@VinceVenturella]

Awesome!

[@blackflowDesign]

Oh snap! Constantine came prepared!

[@VinceVenturella]

He really did.

[@hades_deathgod9496]

Rumour engine isn’t a hobgrot, my thought is that it might be a baby troggoth, there is a frame around the baby visible on the left, the anatomy is more consistent with a troggoth so maybe it’s a new hag or troggoth mother, or it can be something entirely new that we’ve never seen before

[@VinceVenturella]

I can see that.

[@sirbobulous]

What I'm hearing is that a Slannesh+Idoneth conversion army is the way to go. The claws are perfect for crabs!

[@VinceVenturella]

You're not wrong!

[@stevekearns6173]

I love this guys way of thinking, good show.

[@VinceVenturella]

Thanks!

[@starslayer2438]

I was sure IDK would keep they Tides of Death table, but I was very surprised that High Tide did not change. Armywide strike first is so mean. Wish they had changed it to something like +1 hit or something like that. I also find it annoying when they don't do obvious math like on the Thrallmaster abilities. If one is so superfluous, just cut it. Overall, I really appreciate how well they are hitting on the internal balance for the most part since (and including) SBGL. The few misses can often be fixed with the next points update. Like Black Knights going down. And for IDK, you called out the two things that stood out to me: Thralls should to go up, Turtles should go down. Hope the former go up to 140 or 150 and the latter down to 450.

[@VinceVenturella]

Agree with basically all of this

[@ShenanigansFox]

Book seems good overall, but until the dhom and thralls are nerfed, they just have another over centralized book like stormcast. Just replace dragons and longstrikes with thralls and more thralls.

[@VinceVenturella]

Time will tell for sure.

[@CrazyTom34]

Great show! Constantinos was just great. I really enjoyed the breakdown, my wife has just gone IDK with the Fury of the Deeps box and we are so excited about this new book. Is Tyler doing alright? He seemed to be censoring himself constantly during the show and seemed very down on this book. I understand his larger concern that generally the current meta will be upended by an overcorrection into something more oppressive, but I feel like he was pushing into confirmation bias here. It got the point where is seemed like Status Quo defense for the sake of it, metas shift and I think the most oppressive parts of this book either will get FAQ'd or will only be a problem at Top Tables which like, impacts a handful of players while the rest of us will be have fun with new fishy vampirate elves.

[@TylerEmerson]

Yeah man, I felt a little off this show. Appreciate the feedback. I'll work on it. Definitely hopeful that, for a # of reasons, IDK may end up being largely within bounds (and certainly for most players, as you said). There's a lot of great things about the book.

[@CrazyTom34]

@@TylerEmerson i wasn't trying to be snide and I got a bit flippant at the end. I'm genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts but felt like reigned yourself in a few times. I get the concern this book is too hard a counter but i think there is an interesting discussion around counter plays to this book.

[@TylerEmerson]

@@CrazyTom34 No worries! And absolutely, we'll have to do a follow up and get into details on potential counter plays, etc. One element we could've emphasized more, e.g.: Thralls are still -1 rend, and a lot of units can remain on 2+ save vs -1 rend...and there's no guarantee the Aspect of the Sea will be in position to do its key spell re: save reduction, or that its key spell will go off. Definitely a lot of details we'll want to get into on a follow-up show, especially after we've had a chance to experience them on the table.

[@VinceVenturella]

I think Tyler was also just giving the guest room, but this is tough book to read, it reads really STRONG, but time will tell.

[@brandondollar]

Best news! Chaos dwarves means I can finally finish collecting my Warhammer Quest collection (without paying over $40 a model)!

[@VinceVenturella]

:)

[@assistantref5084]

The artefact to summon in a boat is going to be abused in hideous ways due to the fact that it's impassable. I really don't think this was a good idea. At the very minimum it should be limited to wholly within your own territory. The ability to teleport or deep strike or even just auto-run 12" an Isharran hero to set it up to block off a space is going to be really NPE against certain lists that just don't have any answers for it. Of course, they also thought the Domm-hain ability was ok, so there was probably a healthy quantity of mind-altering substances being consumed when this book was written. I would like to be wrong, but this book feels like a bit of a disaster in the making.

[@dwightm6454]

Don't quote me but I think the spell says you set the boat up respecting its warscroll, and the warscroll says it must be set up wholely within your own territory. I believe, but I might be wrong.

[@assistantref5084]

@@dwightm6454 That would have certainly made sense, but unfortunately that isn't what it says. See here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJ7MkIiAbb97i6c

[@VinceVenturella]

I am very worried about the NPE of boat set-up

[@dwightm6454]

@@assistantref5084 it seems like there are a few obvious places in this book that require some faqs.

[@fullcirclenerd1774]

Team Tyler!!! 😜

[@VinceVenturella]

There we go

[@ruddendave]

Can't believe not only am I finally making adepticon after having it deferred for two years, I'm also getting a live WHW show in! I mean, should we make banners? (freehanded obviously)

[@VinceVenturella]

It's going to be great fun.

[@takeovermars9517]

Listening to the stuff in the book really hammers home why some of my friends are playing older books don't want to play anymore. There seems to be a wide gap between armies like Slaanesh and Skaven and these new books. What's worse is DoK who clearly didn't need a new book about to get one. . . It worried me for my local area as we are starting up our own tournaments with talks of having cons being set up here.

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep

[@hobbithubby5076]

42:52Well… Constantinos has sold another army. My wallet weeps.

[@VinceVenturella]

There you go.

[@woanjinnchong273]

So Lotann is now a hero from slightly higher than a zero?

[@VinceVenturella]

You got it

[@tomb4610]

For the Soulrender, it was mentioned there are two battleshock phases, what am i missing i thought there was one? Still a bit of a noob to 3rd Ed.

[@VinceVenturella]

His trick happens in your battleshock and the enemy battleshock phase - it happens twice per battleround is what we mean. :)

[@tomb4610]

@@VinceVenturella oh wow that's insane! Ty :)

[@takeovermars9517]

The r/p/s issue is exactly the issue my friend just said as why he doesn't enjoy the game anymore the feeling for him just isn't subtle enough.

[@VinceVenturella]

Makes sense

[@Thaumatolgist]

1:25:04 the boats can be smashed to rubble now making them slightly less offensive, no?

[@VinceVenturella]

I mean, they are still phyisically there, which is problematic, but it's a little better.

[@CrazyTom34]

Send Tyler all of the Holy Wars tables

[@VinceVenturella]

There we go.

[@Goon94]

After what GW did to my Bonesplittaz this just kind of bums me out. It seems like some books get all the good stuff and they don't even try with others. I'm not sure IDK will be very fun to play against now.

[@VinceVenturella]

I get that.

[@sjarcadeaosmtgedhgames5563]

Vince if you let me know if you need the powerpoint, chances are I have done it by the time ya did it

[@VinceVenturella]

Your powerpoint game is always strong my friend.

[@sjarcadeaosmtgedhgames5563]

@@VinceVenturella i try to use my powers for good… content

[@sycho331]

While the meta definitely needs the anti-shooting tech, it feels like this book, in totality, may be too oppressive. We'll know soon enough!

[@VinceVenturella]

Yep, we will know.

[@rawhide303]

I feel like I won't even be able to play a casual game with my deepkin unless I purposely omit some rules.

[@VinceVenturella]

It feels powerful, I suppose time will tell.

[@stevekearns6173]

Please, please be Skaven this year!

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm with you.

[@takeovermars9517]

I absolutely love how Tylar started off saying this is a well written book and then as the show goes on the more and more it shows that it's just the same old song and dance lol

[@VinceVenturella]

Yes indeed, you could see the change.

[@xfishburgx]

It's great that Konstantinos was so happy to be on the show and made this fun. But him interrupting Tyler so much is not beautiful to watch

[@VinceVenturella]

I think Tyler was just holding back more than anything, as this book was a tough one to read.

[@RadioFreeHammerhal]

Once again, someone that doesn't natively speak English is better with the language than Americans. And the lack of accents that some people have is amazing. Just being able to speak another language is like sorcery to my tiny American brain, these people that don't natively speak English that are more well spoken in English than the average American are absolutely mind blowing to me.

[@VinceVenturella]

Konstantios is awesome, great to have him on the show.

[@nadavbloshtein3957]

Deepkin have better dirty tricks than kruelboys lol

[@VinceVenturella]

You're not wrong. :)

[@Phox532]

I still like the Morphann build. I know that it won’t be the strongest, but it’s going to 100% just bog down other armies as your Eels and sharks eat everything

[@VinceVenturella]

That's fair, nothing wrong there and your opponents will be happy you're not playing Dhom-Hain. ;)

[@Phox532]

@@VinceVenturella to be fair, I’m not a match player. We always play PtG or narrative play on my group

[@KK-qm1mr]

Try and get a soft RSVP for the Adepticon show. Boyfriend (who will be there!) thinks you're underestimating the space you need.

[@VinceVenturella]

Oh, I am sure it will be a packed house. :)

[@shadeling6717]

Hope Nighthaunts get the IDK treatment and not the fyreslayers treatment

[@VinceVenturella]

I'm not sure, I think the FS book isn't bad (it doesn't move me, but I know there is potential there, it's probably a more middle of the road book). Whatever the case, I just hope NH is fun and compelling.

[@sycho331]

Too bad the Warpseer will probably lose his battleshock immunity bubble in the new tome :(

[@VinceVenturella]

I would bet on it yeah.

[@squigsmcgee7343]

10/10

[@VinceVenturella]

Thanks!

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@brandondollar]

Fishears

[@myramini188]

Calling it - the next Hobby Cheating will be titled: 'How to teach Tyler to paint.'

[@VinceVenturella]

We need our equivalent of the holiday special on that one.

[@lestrike2707]

I don’t know what to think of this book. Sure it‘ll be strong but idc. Quite some units seem to be overpriced for what they can do. Both eel units might be worth 170 pts and the turtle 400 (at most). My issue is that lists write themselfs due to the aggressive pricing. I doubt we’ll see a lot if varied lists until eels, the turtle and maybe even the king (after the inevitable nerf) dropped about 10% in points. My other issue with the book is that I find it boring. Too little changed. It feels like a reprint with minor changes - once again GW shies away from radically reimagining warscroll to make them more interesting. Biggest letdown: WHERE IS MY KRAKEN?

[@scomae5445]

King at 250 seems underpriced and really strong

[@lestrike2707]

@@scomae5445 with all the synergies available: yes. However should one price a model based on its warscroll or based on all possible buffs it could get?

[@VinceVenturella]

My answer is always time will tell, I have my instincts, but players on the table create reality. :)

[@shannonzanzarella6759]

Socks!!!

[@VinceVenturella]

They are coming, worry not. :)

[@fuzzyvibes6156]

As an NB I appreciate the welcome to non binary pals :) also great show!

[@VinceVenturella]

Awesome! Thank you! I loved that intro, I think that should just be part of our show on the reg. :)

[@fuzzyvibes6156]

@@VinceVenturella yes!! :) Would love that

[@dinmacxan]

@@VinceVenturella I hope it does! 🙏

[@jacobkuglar8857]

'Guys, gals, and non-binary pals...' my dude is that a Skate the Infinity reference?

[@dinmacxan]

Sorry mate, I don't recognise the reference 😄 It's what I say to my students all the time. Just came to me one day, a few years ago. Glad ppl picked that up during the stream :)

[@jacobkuglar8857]

@@dinmacxan It's a beautiful phrase, absolutely iconic 10/10

[@VinceVenturella]

I think it shoudl be part of the show for sure, it's wonderful.

[@OldManRogers]

Why do GW butcher Irish (gaelic) language? It's a conspiracy!! Domhain is Sunday, (pronounced Dow-inn) Sam-Hain elfdar is a hatchet of Samhain (November/Halloween, pronounced sow as in cow, -inn) etc.

[@VinceVenturella]

I think it's more they borrow from lots of cultures and languages in a pigden fashion (it happens with a lot of swedish words as well), they just grab it all. ;)

[@OldManRogers]

@@VinceVenturella very true I suippose lol!

[@PrussianWarfare]

This book looks like DoC 7th edition levels of filth! Those rules read too strong in the hands of capable players, and based on what you folks have shown, doesn't look fun to play against. How do you counter an army that can just pop up 9 inches away from you, has access to all this synergy to run+charge+hit first+have units hit again? How do you activate back with a unit after suffering 20+, 30+ damage? Stuff like this is why I'm hesitant on wanting to play tournaments and I hope GW brings down the nitrous on this book.

[@Goon94]

I agree with everything you said.

[@VinceVenturella]

Time will tell on this one, but it feels strong.

[@niilofriden4465]

.

[@VinceVenturella]

:)

[@olewahkandegrunbaum564]

Typical from the idiots at Games Workshop!!! Leave it to them to ruin/Break their own games/rules. Rules are often either unplayable bad/OP or so badly written that everybody and their grandma can interpret them the way they want.

[@VinceVenturella]

That feels stronger than I would say, most of this is good and we've seen more and more tightening of the meta overall into closer win %. DOn't get me wrong, there are challenges, but I wouldn't call it that bad. :)