Does Islam Clash With British Values?

www.iera.org/re...
On Friday 12th June 2015, iERA held its second ‘Don’t Hate, Debate!’ event on the compatibility of Islam and British values.’
The panel:
• Sajid Varda - (Chairperson) Islam Channel
• Hamza Tzortzis - Head of Education and Research at iERA
• Reverend Frank Gelli - Blogger and activist
• Abdullah Al Andalusi - Muslim Debate Initiative
Did not attend:
• Tommy Robinson - Former Head of the English Defence League (EDL)
• Anne Marie Waters - Head of Sharia Watch and UKIP
• Paul Golding - Head of Britian First
Join the conversation: / ieraorg
Tweet your thoughts: / ieraorg

[@hamzawebb6188]

No need for childish comments from the host. As a Muslim, I'm cringing at such silly comments. Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Al-Quran, Surah Nahl

[@hamzawebb6188]

+censedfear agree but there's no need for the daft comments. It's not from the Sunnah of Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم

[@MrChrisHermes]

+censedfear Amen to that Bro

[@saleemhussain6809]

The Chair is rude.

[@37rogu7]

Rev. has some major double standards there.

[@abdullahX001]

Why is Sajid being so silly? Ugh, 5 minutes and I'm done already.

[@Rogue_Console]

learn to have patience.

[@abdullahX001]

+Shabir Ali that's not the point. His jokes were just childish and humiliating.

[@Shammer1]

+Abe Bokeh yeah agreed

[@Rogue_Console]

+Abe Bokeh yeah it was a bit too much I agree now

[@THAT-I-MAY-KNOW-HIM-PODCAST]

You just want to change British society because according to Islam, British values are not worthy of Islamic consideration, and cannot be apart of what it means to be a true Muslim. You're not saying it outright but there is that conflict between what are British values and the Islamic ideology. Despite the fact you have a British passport you still don't want to identify yourself as British. In my opinion that makes you dangerous because you have no sense of loyalty to Britain.

[@fisabilillah8481]

Jlvp Lashley we are loyal to Almighty God, not any nationality or country or government for that matter. Islam breaks down all barriers of class and racism...how beautiful.

[@raju53]

it was wonderful, thank you Iera, we need more engagement. i belive everybody benifited from it.

[@raju53]

you are wrong, and full of presuppositions.

[@MrChrisHermes]

abdullah al mahmud No, all based on objective sources, you HAVE to believe what your dumb book and imam say, I am FREE NOT TO-its called being an adult and not an over emotional infant who needs allah to look after them-childish

[@faris9192]

+MrChrisHermes you call yourself an adult but the way you address others concerning matters in which you disagree is terrible and comparable to that of child throwing tantrum.

[@faris9192]

now let me test your statement against you. if you have done something wrong and someone comes to you to correct your mistake but he speaks to you in an unfriendly manner and is deemed rude, would you listen to him or would you walk away from him? you want to put your point across but in a manner which is rude, is there any effective communication going on? is your intend to insult and hurt others or do you want to give them the truth?

[@MrChrisHermes]

burning fury truth is sometimes hurtful, there is no nice way of saying islam is a social ill and that there is no paradise-my views may be forceful, but I make no apology for that because islam is such a retrograde force it needs calling out wherever it takes root-this is an issue which ranges from mass sexual attacks in Europe to child marriage in Pakistan-it is the issue of our time in my language gets strong, so be it-the ideas still stand regardless

[@Rogue_Console]

was waiting so long for this

[@heerollie447]

Its capitalism that clashes with humanity

[@abya2630]

Britain has LOST any values it had and lost its identity - due to the fact they we are too multicultural, we opened out arm out wide to other cultures and because we are too afraid of offending other culture - we lost ourselves - I just hope we can find what made this nation great again - have people say - they are proud to be British . All the video shows is that people have no idea -

[@egemoleromanus373]

not all Christians wake-up and walk to altar and take communion, they should know what they are taking. what is that in the face of not allowing people to go to whole towns mecca and medina or even go into whole building of mosque?

[@bstlybengali]

wow those muslim haters ran away from an academic debate im incredibly not surprised.

[@cklatte]

'Crusader' comment about the Referend.... What a nice insult. This Sajid Varda is a race baiter. Interesting that Islam has NOTING TO DO WITH RACE. It is a religion.

[@Dragz672]

What a boring debate. ( still learnt a great a deal) but without the crazies, all you get is rational discussion. How annoying lol

[@Rogue_Console]

yeah it would have been amazing is Paul and Tommy were there.

[@abduahmed4518]

+censedfear We heard that quote hundreds of times, said by millions.

[@abduahmed4518]

***** The quote doesn't have to be identical to others who said similar things. And your assertion is ridiculously illogical.

[@abduahmed4518]

***** You said Islam is opposed to Christianity and Democracy? Interestingly you have contradicted yourself, Is Christianity compatible with democracy? Really? Freedom of speech is not British value only, It is human value. Islam incompatible to enlightenment? I think your deluded. I don't have to refute what you said because what you said is self refuting.

[@abduahmed4518]

looneyhart Islam does not need moderation. It was already moderate before Democracy was introduced to Western countries. The problem is those who interpret it the way they like it. How about secular democracy is moderated? Because in my opinion it actually dictates what we should think.

[@davidhynes7850]

The chairman is an insolent PR calling the chuchman a Crusader, which is a derogatory term in Muslim rhetoric, and suggesting that T Robinson might not be able to spell. A good start.

[@egemoleromanus373]

if you walk up to the altar to take communion and you had it and later it was discovered you are not qualified , no body will call for you head.

[@jagoman85]

Did not attend: • Tommy Robinson - Former Head of the English Defence League (EDL) • Anne Marie Waters - Head of Sharia Watch and UKIP • Paul Golding - Head of Britian First Don't you think inviting those kinds of people for a debate is similar to the BBC discussing Islam with the like of Anjem Choudary?

[@offwiththefairies77]

+jagoman85 No. They say what most British People are thinking.

[@SelectiveStreets]

What is that weird ticka ticka sound at the end of the video?

[@trevorwongsam8178]

Abdullah is obviously loyal to the global ummah not any country. Not uncommon but he should at least admit it.

[@DivineLove247]

Excellent and Educational discussion cleansing the EDL BullCrap.

[@offwiththefairies77]

YES. Next.

[@calderon551]

Just ask Pat Condell, he is British.

[@WombatSamurai]

Obviously "British values" is a nebulous and poorly defined thing, but they could, for the sake of argument, have taken them as being roughly congruent to human rights. I think this is important because a society which respects human rights necessarily has to be able to make the judgment as to when the right to religion is in conflict with human rights. For example, we believe that freedom of sexuality is a right for everyone, but with Islam (and other religions) we have to ask: do they tolerate homosexuality? If so, do they do so because they have to or because they truly share the value? I think the fear a lot of people have about Islam is that Muslims owe allegiance only to their own dogma and only respect the rights of others insofar as they have to. I also happen to think this fear isn't entirely rational: it's a fear that leeches in from areas where a political Islamist agenda seems to be the worst thing to ever happen to the world. We know British Muslims reject this, but I would have liked the panel to go one step further and (implicitly) acknowledge that religion is, to an extent, what you make of it, and by this mechanism we should expect to see something like "british islam" to become recognized. I hope people are open to this. I think it's interesting to contrast it with Christianity which naturally has and continues to face a lot of the same challenges. I would have liked to hear the Muslims' perspective on the Church's place in british society and, analogously, what they expect the role of Islam to be going forward. Probably Tommy Robinson suspects they only want 100% Caliphate; I would guess otherwise, but I'd rather hear authentic answers, so if anyone actually reads this and has answers pertaining questions I've asked please respond!

[@a1g2yub]

I am a muslim and i do not consider this debate as impressive or meaningful. I think what IERA guys should do is to first debate with modern day well studied british or non-british muslims who do not carry a theology hat. All good when they say muslims believe in this and muslim believe in that.... its a hypocrtic way of impressing a non-muslim because these might be teachings of islam but no muslims practice it. So he should instead be honest and say Islam instead of Muslims. Abdullah could not answer a simple question if he is british or not. If you have been from an immigrant family and you enjoying all the state's protection and facilities but you can not be so sincere and loyal to accept that? than you are either gullible about your religion or yourself. so either Islam and your God is not that great or you are not a good muslim. Why do we think that being a muslim is like a super-natural. Its not and your daily short comings has nothing to do with your religion. their loads of things all i can not say it here but i am pretty sure that if i was there, they would have been in trouble from me.......

[@hasanabdulmugni7224]

my brother the answer is very easy he can not inter to Mecca because he has not the passport of Mecca and Medina and the passport of both cities is ashhadu an LA illaha illa Allah wa ashhadu Anna muhammedan rasul Allah

[@thearcadian290]

Islam has compatibility issues with most everything, anything with which it has no issues is rectified by creating suitable issue to deal with those things when stumbled across. I've always thought being a Muslim must feel a bit like trying to play hide and seek in the rain forest whilst wearing a really big pink hat, complete with 200 Bright flashing LEDs and a giant fog horn sounding at 15 second intervals.

[@izifaddag8221]

Yes, islam clashes with British values.

[@golammahbubmorshed6866]

Steve Easton no.

[@iqbalgalangnusa8987]

Steve Easton Islam > British value

[@karz12]

@@iqbalgalangnusa8987 if that's the case, why did you come to britain?

[@a1g2yub]

Hamza's invitation to the British to his home was completely mis-understanding his misunderstanding. The guy said that muslims in his area are un-approachable. Now he might be right because these muslims show off themselves collectively as Muslims but in reality they behave our of their cultural vlaues, their dormant and closed cultures back in their homes and their country of origin cultures. Their lack of knowledge of the world, their fear of openness and their fear of the world and so on. It is because of their beliefs which they hve never tried to understand but to taqleed and taqleed and taqleed. We Muslims have completely banned building up an individual character.

[@HussainFahmy]

Human values are Divine

[@MrChrisHermes]

+Hussain Fahmy حسين فحمي‎ NO THEY ARE NOT-Human beings died for the values we hold, real people, NOT PRETEND GODS

[@HussainFahmy]

MrChrisHermes That's what separates Atheism from Theism.

[@MrChrisHermes]

Hussain Fahmy حسين فحمي Yes, Islam has no value in human life, and it shows in the way they behave...Islam is a dead end societally, culturally, and psychologically-it offers nothing but blood shed and fairy tales

[@HussainFahmy]

MrChrisHermes There is no point in discussing Islam with a victim of media propaganda. Islam is not simply a set of propositions and actions, a list of beliefs and rituals. Islam unlocks the nature of reality for us, and then provides us a way to live in accordance with that reality. Authentic Islam offers us a metaphysics, which tells us what is real and therefore possible, but also an ethics and aesthetics, which tells us what is good among those possibilities. Moreover, Islam provides not only verbal abstractions, but also a concrete embodiment of them. In Islam, the embodiment of the metaphysics and ethics of the Noble Quran is the Prophet (pbuh) and his way of life, his sunnah (statements), which is then transmitted through the ummah (nation) in a multitude of manifestations.

[@HussainFahmy]

MrChrisHermes No assumptions, Muslims have no need to defend Islam from people like you. We try hard to avoid people of the gutter with their filthy language.

[@TheCarxpert]

It's like water and oil, they will never mix!!!

[@revolution4palestine]

+Viking Power what about Judaism , dose it clash with the British values

[@revolution4palestine]

+Viking Power i forget to ask , are you a british , by the way i am not immigrant , i live in the middle east

[@thedivinemrm5832]

+revolution4palestine "what about Judaism , dose it clash with the British values" - No, not at all.

[@revolution4palestine]

TheDivine MrM actually , all the religions clash with the not just with the british Values but with the whole eruopean culture , because Europeans excluded religion from their public life since they have developed strict secular philosophy to rule there life .

[@thedivinemrm5832]

revolution4palestine "all the religions clash with the not just with the british Values" Utter nonsense. Anglican Christianity is the backbone of British Values.

[@sofyan2650]

.

[@Rogue_Console]

the guy at the start was funny lool

[@MrChrisHermes]

+Shabir Ali really? Wello they say there are no jokes in islam, and this proves it, thanks

[@adulthumanfemale8666]

Is the audience gender-segregated? If so, there's your answer.

[@yusufmayow3413]

So far too good, just might end great :)

[@RichieW]

It doesn't just clash with British values. It seeks to destroy them.

[@fisabilillah8481]

RichieW you can’t destroy something that doesn’t exist

[@shaziazaidi6317]

@@fisabilillah8481 lol

[@ashakorad]

2nd person to like the video

[@abdullahX001]

+Aisha Yasin Give this one a trophy!!!

[@MrChrisHermes]

+Aisha Yasin You need to aim higher kid

[@agagagag2609]

"Does Islam Clash With British Values?" Yes.