If A Perfect Bot Entered A Tournament: Game 2: Marth - A Melee TAS

[@RipleySawzen]

To be honest, M2K looked a little sluggish here.

[@krowpan799]

Zain a little down bad rn…

[@Xplayer007]

Just your average M2K pools game

[@TheMusician4748]

*Zain

[@Riolupai]

lolm2k

[@Darksilver740]

If that Marth wasn't at the tourney, that fox would have actually placed pretty good

[@MoonlittRaven]

exactly, scary tas

[@ThrowupDoll]

he can do well in losers.

[@dal4268]

Yes

[@bigfloppa9220]

How I'm feeling coming away from watching mang0 get washed 10-0 by Zain today

[@infernosmash4532]

1:18 I didn't know Marth had links up smash!!!!

[@SatisfactoryBro]

OH YOU

[@devildickdeep]

How did he do that??

[@JSins_]

That’s up air, l canceled

[@billybobferguson3946]

@@devildickdeep up air falling from the top platform > l cancel > up tilt > drop down to ground > up air At least, that's what it looks like to me

[@billybobferguson3946]

Oh never mind, the last 2 attacks weren't uptilt > upair, they were both upairs. There was probably some sort of waveland involved in that but holy fuck I know nowhere near enough about the game to figure out what happened

[@PracticalTAS]

There's some stuff in this video that's hard to see if you're not looking for it, so I want to share a few details that you might not notice on your first watch: 0:12 Fox gets baited into nair thanks to Marth's crouch, which looks like dtilt. 0:14 Nearly imperceptible dashdance back prevents Fox from landing on the platform on the next uthrow. 0:21 Marth runs through Fox to dodge the first hit of his getup attack. 0:24 Edge canceling the dair covers walltech sideb to ledge. 0:33 Marth wavedashes straight down to duck under the high laser. 0:35 Pivot into lightshield with shield DI dodges Fox's grab and nets a counter-grab. 0:55 Fox shines, which goes through 1 frame of utilt. You can hear it. Fox gets hit by the next frame anyway, and there's no other way for him to escape or delay getting hit (airdodge is vulnerable on startup). 1:01 The uair here is actually a DI trap: Marth gets to the other side of Fox, who's DI'ing up and left, and hits him with a uair that would normally hit Fox to the right, but with DI, he falls straight into the usmash. 1:08 The ledge stall is actually fully invincible. I think the only way for Fox to break it is by grabbing the ledge himself. 1:10 Marth sticks out his leg behind him when he dashes, so the shine would have hit if he didn't shield. 1:11 Marth shield DI's the nair to get Fox in front of him so he can grab him out of the Westballz shield pressure string. 1:17 The run-off uair here is actually guaranteed to hit Fox no matter how he drifts or fastfalls after the up-b. Also, I tried to shine out of every hit of every combo. If Fox could escape it, I would try something different until I found something he couldn't get out of. If Fox had better DI and SDI he could have escaped some stuff, but that's why it's a bot playing a human opponent, not a bot playing a slightly worse bot.

[@yoyomizuro6664]

The segment at 1:20-ish where you do the instant uair l cancel's into the shieldbreaker. Is that possible to do non-TAS?

[@PracticalTAS]

No, it's TAS-only. Check my other top-level comment for the details.

[@power_up3458]

+Practical TAS 2: Melee Creations How would u do that type of shield pressure? Like how did u edge cancel two in a row? It wouldn't move you upwards after a ledge cancel to do another one right? And also does it really take an hour for five seconds?

[@lawrencechan4494]

This is absolutely insane. I'm so glad you took the time to write this up because like you said, I really did miss a lot. If I may, I'd like to suggest adding a slow-mo version before the full-speed version, in a similar style to the "how fast it melee" video. I think that way people could better appreciate every detail that you add. Of course it would be much, much longer, so perhaps you could do one stock per video, or something like that. Anyway, keep it up. I really look forward to seeing more of your work.

[@PracticalTAS]

deep blue Thank you :) I'm actually planning on releasing exactly what you're talking about very soon

[@BuckBlaziken]

When a bot taunts you after breaking your shield.

[@roderrickgaming9949]

Please leave furry.

[@owohub9378]

@@roderrickgaming9949 >:(

[@mariogamer3757]

Finally mk2 pool match

[@dr_rl123]

Wait why is m2k in default marth costume

[@__crispyyyy]

This is PPMD

[@aleknowstuff]

@@__crispyyyy lmfao

[@haniii3]

Those 3 up airs were sick. I wanna see someone do that in tournament

[@asbquez6494]

Lmao it's basically impossible realistically

[@prosp9483]

Mr Buster no ones hands are possibly that fast and precise

[@kikiretzorg1467]

That really isn't possible for a human to do with a GameCube controller. I'm not sure if it's physically possible for the control stick to move that quickly.

[@kitschulz9073]

Zeeky Retzorg i wonder if we had a machine that could hold the controller and move the joystick fast enough for this kind of frame perfect shit. Like a TAS but instead of just digital inputs they are actually done with a gamecube controller, by a machine using it.

[@galaxyspirals9595]

perhaps the controller would just break due to friction.

[@oussama7132]

What if the perfect bot marth fought the perfect bot playing fox?

[@PracticalTAS]

I think Fox would have the advantage because of Shine.

[@-Cozmoe-]

+Practical TAS 2: Melee Creations I think if perfect marth controls the space around him with his sword, fox won't be able to get his shine in. At Tas level Fox

[@DctrBread]

the sword is bad at TAS levels in fact most attacks aren't worth using if its versus a "perfect bot"

[@firmyetflacid244]

Fox would ultimately win because at tas level power-shielding would beat out every option that Marth has. On the other hand, fox can just shine Marth and even at perfect Tas level you can't react to a 1 frame move. Fox could also just "parry" every one of Marth's moves with shine. If you go on smashboards, hax wrote a whole page on why Fox is the best character at tas level, falco is the second best simply because he can shine just not as fast as fox, and everyone else would be tied.

[@firmyetflacid244]

Marth can power shield to but the point is even at TAS level you cant react to a move that comes out in one frame. There is nothing to react to. For example, if you jab with fox, you will see him wind up his hand or whatever for a frame, and then the next frame he will punch. At TAS level, it is possible to react to. However, the moment fox uses shine, there is no warning signs or start up, it literally will just happen. Even if the game was at the speed at 1 frame every 10 seconds, TAS marth cant react to the shine because it literally happens in an instant, in 1 frame. Even if marth did power shield it, multishining at the fastest speed with fox beats out power shield, and fox can keep doing it til marth's shield breaks, or marth rolls which he can react to.

[@Blackacre438]

It's always good to see a video of M2K's marth in action

[@PracticalTAS]

Since a lot of people are asking about it, I'll explain the uair string at the end of the video (1:17). I used a TAS-only trick with a long name, the Pseudo Platform Cancel Edge Cancel. Here's how it works: * edge cancel an aerial * drift back toward the platform, very very precisely * do another aerial, going into hitlag so you can land on the platform again * drift back to the edge to set up the next edge cancel, even more precisely * repeat It looks similar to Falco platform canceling his bairs, but it's not a true platform cancel (hence, "pseudo" platform cancel) because in order to make it work, you need to slide off an edge; you can't do it just by dropping through the platform. There's some more details at the following links, but this is the gist of it. www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/4h71jj/platform_cancel_ledge_cancel/ www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/42z27v/screw_teeter_cancelled_buffered_shield_drop/

[@sonpham3438]

Ok time to practise xD

[@jongyon7192p]

Practical TAS 2: Melee Creations "I will defeat you using the secret technique passed down my family for generations... The...PSEUDO PLATFORM CANCEL EDGE CANCEL TECHNIQUE!!!" "THE PSEUDO PLATFORM CANCEL EDGE CANCEL TECHNIQUE?!!?! BUT THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!"

[@Baku69895]

You can actually drop through a platform and immediately Fair. Marth will land back on the platform because he lifts his feet up. This is doable.

[@jf.955]

Allmywhat that's the technique he used. But without the edge cancel, the aerials string at a much slower pace, even with L cancel.

[@xertifiedthicc]

istg I've seen Zain do that exact same maneuver on Cody (maybe hbox?) but damn, Zain really is just cracked like that huh

[@heterodoxagnostic8070]

0:39 that's the sexiest marth combo ever. popping off on that one

[@Dimitri_gdr]

All marth aerial where in the combo, that's so cool Best marth combo I've ever seen

[@heterodoxagnostic8070]

@@Dimitri_gdryeah

[@micahd1293]

these TAS's are actually so sick nasty. this one and the first one are by far the best on KZbin. the powershielding everything and the waveshines of the first one was amazing. the shield break on this one was amazing. it's a shame it takes so long to do. keep up the good work

[@PracticalTAS]

Thank you for the kind words :)

[@TheFriendlyFireGuy]

the scariest thing is that most of this stuff actually looks doable (unlike the perfect fox)

[@joelrivera6824]

No. Those combos are way too precise for a person to do. It's physically impossible to move your hands and fingers that fast to be able to input everything perfectly. That marth is perfect, no human player is perfect. No margin of error, everything absolutely flawless. Impossible.

[@TheFriendlyFireGuy]

looks, didn't say was

[@CoBeX31]

Friendly_Fire Don't pay attention to that guy, everything in this other than the crazy edge-cancelled Uair pressure is doable, and honestly pretty common fare at a high level.

[@JFMHunter]

bit late to respond, but the reason its a tas video is because it showcases the marth perfectly reacting to any of the fox's options. The stuff is feasible to execute but to react and respond like in the demonstration is impossible for humans.

[@__crispyyyy]

@@joelrivera6824 m2k would like to have a word with you.

[@ValueNetwork]

If anyone is confused, it’s a TAS Marth vs it’s creator.

[@TjuserX]

I want to see two perfect robots against each other

[@kingkrispy5289]

TPC Lagrand like scrumpy said,it’d be a tie and I’d go to Rock Paper Scissors because neither would give each other a chance to attack

[@NightCrafted]

1:20 wtf, that shield pressure is something to be labbed out.

[@CoBeX31]

BrickerBlocky it's nowhere near possible for a human.

[@NightCrafted]

CoBeX31 Well lets see: Plup was able to do a 5 hit plat cancelled nair shield pressure on S2j and it looked pretty feasible when he did it at G3. Basically all the marth is doing is just a ledge cancelled fair, into 2 plat cancelled uairs, into a shield breaker. I think its def possible with really good tech skill.

[@CoBeX31]

BrickerBlocky Except you can't platform cancel Marth's Uair. The technique used here is TAS-only. Like you literally couldn't move your human fingers fast enough to do it.

[@NightCrafted]

CoBeX31 Wait so is it only ledge cancelled??

[@CoBeX31]

Yeah, I'm not completely certain on the inputs put he explained it on another comment.

[@jesterjaded73]

The year is 20XX and everyone can react within two frames to every move.

[@Joseponypants]

The shield break setup reminded me a lot of EpicEasy's Marth vs Sheik TAS video. Good stuff.

[@PracticalTAS]

Wow, I just found that video and I did exactly the same sequence as him. Props to him for doing it first.

[@echonce1]

whoaa. blast from the past, loved that tas

[@matthias3596]

iirc he used a moonwalk to setup the drift vs Sheik. Idk if it does, but I have a hunch that the momentum from the moonwalk might make it slightly easier to pull off?

[@SimpleSimonBrawl64]

This is amazing. Not ridiculously overwhelming as TASes tend to be. Keep up the good work!

[@PracticalTAS]

Thank you :)

[@Gamesforus1]

Forward Air, Up Air, Back Air, Down Air. SO CLEAN

[@ayudrs]

1:19 Is that...Link's Up Smash?

[@notanorangepeel5875]

perfect kirby plz

[@RaFaReAcH]

notAnOrangePeel u mean Armada's Kirby?

[@notanorangepeel5875]

non

[@slippinjenny7410]

Pretty cool how stuff like upb vs low firefox and no impact land grab are things we see top Marth do now.

[@CaptnMarioCH]

Rare footage of M2K actually trying

[@mewnessbro]

Really unique combos and the shield break was balllllin

[@fastmovingvolcanomatter]

0:41 Beautiful.

[@anthonyher572]

agreed

[@fnoogie]

that shield break though Kreygasm

[@Fishingsucks8]

Just an average day at Dr. Peepee's office.

[@adamkampen]

A skilled marth can beat any fox

[@Linktehhero]

great job with this; there are some seriously awesome combos

[@LolzSquid]

IT TOOK 15 HOURS TO MAKE A 1:15 LONG TAS?! That's a pretty disproportionate time for the length. It's a really good TAS for sure tho.

[@PracticalTAS]

Two-player TASes take exponentially longer than one-player TASes. I've been pretty consistently needing about an hour per 5 seconds of final footage with these videos.

[@MarMaxGaming]

Practical TAS 2: Melee Creations thank you for your amazing dedication!

[@scepkile]

0:51 Dat no impact land holy shit

[@neilbolima9694]

Yay you finally used the PPCLC i told you about on your stream.

[@PracticalTAS]

:D Thanks again dude I was saving it just for this

[@kapzillion1997]

+Practical TAS 2: Melee Creations what is ppclc

[@PracticalTAS]

pseudo platform cancel ledge cancel. the really fast uairs that break fox's shield on the last stock. www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/4h71jj/platform_cancel_ledge_cancel/ www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/42z27v/screw_teeter_cancelled_buffered_shield_drop/

[@neilbolima9694]

ohhh, that was the marth tas you were talking about ok.

[@neilbolima9694]

and its no problem, im always happy to help.

[@JugPratice]

that pivot turnaround uptilt after the tomahawk on the platform had me reeling

[@ibewatchin6497]

Damn dat guard break into taunt into fully charged smash was jus nasty

[@soraokamichi8835]

Still not as broken as witch time.

[@engineerepixlele2845]

Zain kinda plays like this now LOL

[@-hduiawhdiuhawu]

Right? It shows how cracked people have gotten

[@simanolastname2399]

Some of this legit just looks like Zain gameplay

[@moraigna66]

It feels weird to see a "perfect bot" holding shield.

[@PracticalTAS]

I did that deliberately, to make it clear that Marth dodged Fox's grab without ever dropping his shield.

[@moraigna66]

Oh well, I shouldn't have underestimated you. I will watch again :P

[@DiscoCokkroach]

The Up Smash KO was really cool! :D

[@ismelljello]

The fact that a lot of these followups are performed by top Marths today, speaks volumes.

[@Utopia1616]

Average game of Zain vs a fox

[@dogunboundhounds9649]

That shield break Fall down platform Jump Uair Fastfall Lcancel (Do that in 15 frames out of 60 4 time)

[@Malpalooza]

I didn't know Marth could platform cancel his up air O.o

[@mewzerobox8598]

Malpalooza he cant

[@Malpalooza]

MewZeroBox ahh so 1:18 he's ledge cancelling not platform cancelling?

[@neilbolima9694]

Malpalooza its complicated first he slides off a platform with little momentum then slides back with a fair. then drifts back off the stage the repeats so he is pseudo platform canceling the edge cancelling again

[@PracticalTAS]

www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/42z27v/screw_teeter_cancelled_buffered_shield_drop/

[@ejcandrin]

I see PPMD's comeback is progressing nicely

[@kingkrispy5289]

1:19 the shield is my mental state and marth is my mind thinking about how much homework I need to do

[@ColgateVT]

oh my god those upairs

[@Popthekirbo]

That Fox looks like me when I tried to play melee with my friends. Those were dark days....

[@perkypears]

I bet when that shield broke after so many hours of TASing you were so glad that all you had to do was press the taunt button and hold B hahaha

[@PracticalTAS]

You have no idea. The repeated uairs alone took a few hours to set up (in a way that looked natural) and perform (the tech is very finicky and I tried hundreds of tiny joystick changes before getting it right). I actually popped off when the shield broke.

[@Takumi_Yo]

I couldn't tell if Zain was playing the Marth, since both Marths were playing optimally

[@SmasherUGS]

Cool, if you ever go into TAS ing ics, i might have a few interesting desyncstuff in the tas you might want to use :D

[@PracticalTAS]

Please DM me on Twitter, so I know to hit you up if I'm doing ICs stuff.

[@canyounotsee]

The time spent on it really shows.

[@PracticalTAS]

Thank you :)

[@CaptnMarioCH]

The combo at 0:42 was sick

[@sheridan5175]

Proof that when 20XX comes, Fox won't be the only one dominating

[@milk-dq7fu]

Lol you used your marth shield pop tas in this. Godlike

[@forestbr34th54]

We need a perfect bot vs a perfect bot to: A. decide who the best character is at their maximum potentail B. See what happens when 2 bots play the same character vs eachother.

[@1kotouba]

i'm just seeing M2K playing with default marth costume

[@SatisfactoryBro]

Looks like Zvarri got his revenge after all

[@danielsmith5032]

So I watched the first few stocks and thought, "Mew2King could probably do some of this stuff. Not perfect every game but some of this stuff yea" And when the last stock came I thought to myself, "They gotta end TAS with a bang I wonder how they are gonna do it with Marth" And then the shield break happened. My jaw dropped. Well done TAS, well done

[@peanutbutter9042]

I'd love to watch this bot play as Pichu

[@yELoHQ]

So.... the fox player vs M2K? xD that second stock combo was so beautiful also.

[@faraday7879]

great work

[@TheHedgememe]

teach me your ways marthbot

[@HoveringZero]

Dude I wish I was as good at this as you. TASing is way harder than it looks.

[@AdventVFX]

Typical Zain gameplay

[@jamesbrainard1761]

Imagine if there was someone that played like this.

[@lucentshadow]

Bots don't like dittos, but Smash's random sure does.

[@Smasher-bq1uk]

i wish i had a amiibo fighting like this

[@valentinrosner4181]

dat final tipper

[@adamkampen]

This is what a level 9 was to us as kids, admit it.

[@styxxiii]

What it was like playing against level 9s as a child.

[@gboles97]

I'm upset there wasn't a spike kill from the 3rd hit of a sword dance

[@iTracti0n]

0:35 I really wish I could that was some sorcery only possible in TAS

[@jrkb89]

So this is the Combo video Zain practices to...

[@AdmiralA]

idk just looks like zain to me

[@invalidssb]

Crazy how normal this looks

[@pont1695]

We need perfect Bowser tho.

[@cubesandpi]

that NIL at 0:50 kreygasm

[@harold4thofhisname.499]

that was dope

[@omukssbm]

This further solidifies for me that M2K is the closest thing we have to AI in Smash.

[@GeekyGoonSquad]

1:18 wat

[@LiamF612]

platform cancelled up-airs?

[@mewzerobox8598]

Liam PSUEDO platform cancel edge canceled up airs

[@dontcaremate]

sort by top: comments talking about m2k gameplay sort by new: comments talking about zain gameplay

[@pokemonletsgobad9899]

What do you like to be when you grow up Me:

[@jerooneyround8800]

TAS marth kinda proves how free marth punishgame is on spacies

[@roseworthy]

kinda proves how free marth is* FTFY

[@bigman4934]

bringing the fire into fire emblem. help.

[@Popmycherryyo]

A TAS video that isn't magicscrumpy's? :o

[@mnemicmnemic]

1:18 - 1:20 destroyed my mind

[@Evixyn]

that shield break!? :O

[@neoblade6958]

Best part was the taunt tbh

[@DctrBread]

:O the no-impact land at 0:52 ! how do you do that? ive always wondered if it was possible

[@PracticalTAS]

Double jump with the same timing as a wavedash (first frame possible)

[@DctrBread]

it works! I can't wait to flub this in tournament

[@vashthestampede3451]

what is the name of that move

[@cruz5248]

Marth mains rejoice.

[@MembaDP]

How exactly was the TAS Marth able to platform cancel F-air and U-air? Did it drift off of the platform, because I didn't see a drift.

[@pendalink]

Memba my best bet is shield pushback while holding towards him

[@falco2350]

You mean when M2K’s on point

[@kpuff8282]

It's M2K!

[@Hisho00]

Damn that ending

[@BeanieBrony1995PSQUEE]

M2K 10 years from now...

[@ernestotroll]

Oh damm that bot been jv5ed by mew2king was amazing 😂

[@kasperr2801]

Revenge for game 1