If contraception is immoral, what should Catholic couples do?

If contraception is immoral according to Catholic teaching, what is a couple supposed to do? Just have 15 kids? In this video we're going to continue looking at the Catholic Church's teaching on contraception and how Catholic couples should respond within their marriage.
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[@kelkabot]

For whatever it’s worth, my dad’s cousin and her husband had seventeen children and their lives are joyous and blessed.

[@MrSilverfish12]

I want to have a high income so I never have to worry about having more kids. I think it´s a great thing

[@DK-ss1vu]

I’m not for birth control but at the same time I can’t afford 10 kids.

[@mattberg916]

Oh, how I wish I had better Catholic teaching as a child and young man. Would have avoided so much offense to the Father and all the 35 years of gambling with my soul.

[@michaspi]

When the Prodigal Son returned to his father, the dad was overjoyed, not scornful. This is how we should all feel when someone turns away from their erroneous ways. Welcome back, brother.

[@navinfernandes747]

God looks at the heart and not at the time... better late than never..

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,nzx

[@cosmogamer9914]

i feel the same but thankfully our Lord knows the treacherous fallen world we live in, and His Mercy towards us is infinite. by His Grace you have returned to Him and left your sinful ways in the past; He is all forgiving and all truly repentant souls will be saved by His infinite mercy

[@mattberg916]

@@cosmogamer9914 we are blessed beyond our comprehension!

[@soulspeaker1979]

I'm soooooo very grateful for having found this channel. What started out as a Conquest against lust has become so much more. Thank you so so much l!!!!! 💗

[@ingridfanal9446]

This video is a gem!! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on such a wonderful topic.

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,nmmm

[@Cosette336]

These kind of rules aren’t realistic and don’t take into account unique circumstances. For me getting pregnant would seriously endanger my life. So I absolutely need to use multiples forms of birth control and can’t go relying on NFP. Should I be abstaining until my child bearing years are over because I was cursed with multiple serious illnesses? Or should I just die? It’s videos like this that make me want to walk away from religion.

[@aisthpaoitht]

Yeah. The Church seems wrong on this one. It is cutting married couples off from unitive intimacy.

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

If you have a medical condition by which getting pregnant could endanger your life, using contraception with your husband is permissible. Even in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Your circumstance is rare.

[@aisthpaoitht]

@@Whiskey.Tango.Actual citation? Because that is not true, to my knowledge. It is considered an intrinsic evil and can never be used with a contraceptive intention.

[@mikaelnazir7768]

I am not a Catholic but I appreciate this message.

[@canadianpatriot9566]

Sorry christopher, what your saying is not biblical anymore, having sex with your partner for only procreation purposes is not biblical. Paul says the wife must satisfy the desires the husband, and the husband must satisfy the desires of his wife....ephesians!

[@nukestern]

I totally agree

[@maryrankin9869]

Bonding and babies!

[@a.39886]

@@nukestern think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,..

[@nukestern]

@@a.39886 And your point is ???

[@nukestern]

@@a.39886 My friend if you keep talking like this i wont understand anything. Please be clear and short in what your are trying to say.....i am clueless

[@andrewwhite1802]

Thank you for your video. My wife and I are discerning a call to join the Catholic Church (currently Anglican) but I have to admit this is the biggest hang up for me, so I appreciate my comment being read sincerely and from pastoral eyes. I assure you this is not meant to be trolling at all. I had a vasectomy half a decade ago as we were done having children. We both still feel that way. I understand that in catholicism I could in theory be in good standing if I were to have this reversed (though by this point chances of success are low), but I struggle with why I need to do that. After each of our pregnancies my wife struggled with significant mental health issues. Obtaining a vasectomy was in many ways a mercy for my wife. I felt not only at peace with this but as though it was the most loving thing to do for my wife. I struggle with recognizing this act of love as an act of sin. I do recognize that many things that people could construe as love are actually sin but I struggle to see how a Christian husband laying down his own desires for the well being of his wife is a sin. When searching online for the Catholic perspective to this I find NFP as the alternative. I struggle with this. As a medical professional I am aware the NFP when done correctly is more effective than condom use. So why then is NFP preferred? It seems that God would have better chances, so to speak, in make a condom fail than in making NFP fail. In other words, it would seem that NFP is more of a barrier to "the potential of life" than condoms are. NFP after all is done expressly for the purpose of avoid a new life. I understand your analogy with natural death vs euthanasia, that we are taking the question of life into our own hands, but your analogy breaks down in that NFP is also taking life into our own hands. If a couple only has sex when the wife is not fertile, then they have taken the potential for life out of the equation just as much as wearing a condom takes it out of the equation (only more effectively so as mentioned above). To fit with your analogy this would be like saying "we aren't murdering our grandmother but we are only offering her water when she is asleep". This is the natural rhythm of her body after all. At times she is awake and at other times she is asleep. We aren't doing anything to make her sleep. We aren't actually pulling the trigger and intervening. We are just utilizing the natural order to achieve our desired ends (the death of grandma in this case, or the avoidance of pregnancy). Again, I recognize this comes off as argumentative but I genuinely am searching for answers. If we join the Catholic Church I want to do so in good faith. I can't stomach the idea of going to confessional and not confessing something that the church holds as a sin but I do not. Thank you in advance for your thoughts on this.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thanks for sharing and being vulnerable. If you’re seeking more direct advice, Christopher and his wife Wendy have a weekly podcast where they address questions like yours. Here’s the link for submitting a question: askchristopherwest.com/ask

[@bjvaskejr]

After more than 15 years of practicing nfp I can assure you it's not the same any other form of birth control. It is the time of the month that you will desire each other the most. This is when I recall the bible verse. "Offer your body's as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable to God. "

[@leekshikapinnamneni4835]

Thank you so much! I’m not married yet but I’m watching means in order to be prepared for marriage one day.

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,..mx

[@aisthpaoitht]

If there are just reasons for NFP, then there are just reasons for other forms of contraception. You can't have it both ways. NFP is mental gymnastics, but God won't be fooled.

[@HaleFire7]

How can NFP be acceptable when its implementation and objective is precisely the same as any other form of contraception? You’re right, this doesn’t follow in any rational sense.

[@greyforge27]

I'm very skeptical about all this, but this is a very well-reasoned and warm view of the topic

[@nickfoster848]

Same

[@JewishJuice]

Thank you for your viewpoint / presentation on Catholic teaching.

[@ericrivera8410]

I studied to be a priest as a young boy and what I learned was my priest had the hots for me as boy because he molested me. . An atheist now

[@danielbowden1995]

I don't see a logical, reasonable, or spiritual case for saying that NFP or abstinence is the only permissible form of contraception . Either it is all wrong or there are are a variety of permissible forms of contraception. I am not a catholic and I plan to get a vasectomy before marriage[while abstaining from sexual acts before marriage]. I actually agree that it would be wrong if the mindset was "God wants me to have children, but I don't wanna, so I am going to do what I can to thwart His will". There is truly no 100% effective form of contraception since God could miraculously enable a conception if it His desire to do so. So it seems what it comes down to is "Are we willing to accept God's will if He proves that He has other plans for us". I don't see any difference between NFP vs using a condom or other forms of non-lethal forms of contraception[those which prevent conception rather than killing someone who has been concieved]. I watched the whole video and I don't follow the logic, it still seems like flawed logic. Maybe a slightly more credible argument could be made for zero planning with a philosophy of, but it doesn't seem logical to make a moral distinction between NFP and other non lethal contraceptive strategies. So many people watching this video probably believe that NFP and abstinence are the only permissible forms of contraception. As I said, I plan on getting a vasectomy. Unless probability is a relevant factor, I don't see what the morally relevant difference is. The aim/intention of both is to reduce the chances of pregnancy. Neither I and hopefully not any of you would disobey or distrust God if He made it clear to us that He wanted us to conceive children. I am not against NFP as an option, it seems worth looking into and it is certainly better than forms of "contraception" that actually kill babies, but I don't see a logical case for considering it as more or less permissible than using a condom. It is either equally permissible or equally impermissible. So the argument, if I follow, seems to go like this.[feel free to correct any straw-man, it is not my intention to strawman] Me: "Me and my spouse are going to use contraception" Other: "You shouldn't do that, you should trust God" Me: "I do trust that God will fullfil His plans if He has other plans for me. What about you? Do you plan on never having sex or are you just going to use no contraception strategy at all?" Other: "I don't believe in contraception, I do NFP." Me: "I thought that was a form of contraception[contraceptive strategy], what is the difference?" Other: "NFP allows for the possibility of pregnancy if God wills it while contraception does not and therefore usurps or rebels against God's will/desire." [At this point, I would guess that there is a different rationale for seeing a distinction between NFP and other contraception, but I imagine the discussion might continue like this] Me: "I do not believe that we have the ability to thwart God's plans. Also, most forms of conception do not reduce the chance of pregnancy to 0%. Even common surgical strategies like vasectomy are not necessarily effective 100% and can spontaneously if not miraculously reverse or 'fail'." Other: "Contraception may not remove the chances to 0%, but it reduces the chances to the point where you are no longer trusting God" [I am not intending to strawman here, I genuinely don't understand how the distinction is being drawn here] Me: "By that logic, why can't the same be said of NFP? Approximately how low can we reduce the probability before it becomes rebellion/distrust/disrespect against God? Is NFP not effective? If it is similarly effective and used with the same intention of reducing the probability of pregnancy, then what is the moral difference? I am still not seeing the difference."

[@dylanw6303]

Very well written, you articulated what’s been in my heart as I watch these videos. The only argument I found convicting is that contraception or contraceptive strategies are not acting in surrender toward God. Or, more accurately, that intercourse without contraception is an act of surrender toward God. However, I see sex as an act of intimacy and expression of desire towards your loved one, amongst other things. I also believe that God honors our free will (because His will is not always done on earth as it is in heaven), and therefore will bring forth a child if a couple decides to engage in intercourse that’s highly likely to bear a child. There’s much more I could say, but I’m still wrestling with God on all this myself.

[@montymython754]

Good question. I’m inclined to agree that no form of contraception is moral, in that case (as I do believe contraception is immoral). However, I think what I’m hearing in the video- the distinction you are asking about, is that NFP is basically timed abstinence, which is an exercise of self-sacrifice and self-control. The consequences of sex are at the forefront of NFP, so I guess those consequences (I.e., pregnancy) are not totally divorced from NFP. On the other hand, other forms of contraception are meant to provide (at least the illusion) of endless sex without consequences. Sure, we all know the chances aren’t zero, but the mindset tends to be that one is entitled to have sex without the consequence of children, and that no self-denial or sacrifice should be undertaken. This poises us to use sex purely for self-gratification and the “using” of others. I also seem to be hearing from this video that there aren’t a lot of good reasons to abstain even in the context of NFP. Like, it is immoral to want to avoid having more children. Which is interesting- I am Catholic and I haven’t heard this before.

[@dylanw6303]

@@montymython754 I am not Catholic, though I’ve no disdain toward Catholicism or any of their doctrines, I consider them my equal brothers and sisters in the faith. I’m of the conviction that sex is more than just for the production of children. My reasons for this includes the intimacy and connection that sex provides, and that sex is immensely pleasurable especially with someone you are deeply in love with. To me, sex is a fruit of an intimate romantic relationship, and it provides deeper intimacy, connection, and understanding of your betrothed, just as oneness and time with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit provides. I once heard a brother explain that sex is worship of the other in an act of giving of yourself totally, to delight and please your lover in a way no one else can, just as God and the individual can express and receive love from the other in a way no other can. My second point came from what I believed to be a revelation from the Holy Spirit regarding 1 Corinthians 7:4 “The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.” To me, this is to take the approach towards loving our betrothed that we ought to take towards loving God, total abandon of self-fulfillment and total commitment to pleasing the other. For these reasons, and others I haven’t listed, I submit that sex is much, much more than for the purpose of producing children. The Lord does nothing without purpose, and human sexuality is immensely complex, so much so that it would be absurd to me to assume that lovemaking ought to be infrequent and, when it does happen, short, for the purpose of attempting fertilization alone.

[@montymython754]

@@dylanw6303 I don’t think anyone made the case that sex isn’t supposed to be for the mutual pleasure of each spouse. I have always heard Catholic teaching that sex is very much important for bonding and the expression of love between spouses. But sex inherently cannot be meaningless if the act is not divorced from the looming reality that a child is possible from that union. Lust can affect even married couples that love each other, and removing thoughtfulness, risk, and planning/communication from sex makes it easier to give into lust (which is selfish) as a motivation for pursuing sex with the other. Your comment references human sexuality. The Lord made human sexuality in a purposeful way. NFP honors the natural order and patterns of human sexuality, and is in harmony with it. Contraception disrupts and distorts it.

[@dylanw6303]

@@montymython754 I never considered that lust can plague a married couple that loves each other, that is certainly true! I was mostly referencing the teachings from this video in my comment, but I’ve also been taught that “contraception is immoral” is an orthodox catholic teaching and belief, so that’s where I was coming from. Either way, I simply wanted to state my case! May you prosper in all you do.

[@tylerlewis5057]

Thank you. I finally understand this teaching.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Glory to God!

[@vinireads]

I’m sorry but isn’t it mentioned in the bible that a married couple should not deny each other s*x?

[@epicbunnygamer6851]

No

[@annainestecchia3019]

This series is so good - thank you so much! On the contrary, if a couple cannot conceive how far the Church allow us to go with medical screening? Thanks!

[@antoniomoyal]

Only that which is natural. Otherwise adopt.

[@joeyfajardo8738]

Don't like 90 percent of married catholic couples use contraceptives anyway?

[@Alicia_W413]

And this is why as a Protestant love the Catholic Church, there is no compromise on Gods word and will and way.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We also love our protestant brothers and sisters!

[@tobymichaels8171]

There are many dangers and drawbacks to the various forms of contraception. Immorality and scriptural proscription are not two of them. The Church is dead wrong on this matter, and its endorsement of NFP betrays its profound error. A couple who willfully abstains during the fertile days of her cycle renders the sexual act sterile as effectively as some proscribed forms of contraception. The couple undertakes an act which is not open to the creation of life. The dissembling mental gymnastics of theologians on this issue reveal that the Church speaks not from an expression of divine will but out of cynical institutional interest.

[@fallonclouatre7934]

If NFP is so effective why do "good" catholics have 6 or more children? Was that the plan?

[@adventureinallthings]

Given that desire is highest for a woman( for obvious reasons ) when she is most fertile, it is women that must bear the lions share of self deniial. It's relatively easy to refain from sex when you least desire it. For a faithful woman with good fertility in the modern world that does not want to have a large number of children, she will only be having sex at her most fertile times for a very few short periods (when she actually desires it most )in her entire life. Not saying this as an argument against what Christopher has said above in any way but am I wrong in this analysis. I know people will say that is what is required and give more good reasons why this is the case but at the end of the day, am I correct in this one thing when all is said and done and there is no sugar coating it ?

[@branislavjeriga6762]

It is exactly why he is wrong... He does not say that wast majority of people should not use NFP for spacing births because wast majority of couples do not have grave reasons for only comming together when woman is deemed infertile...

[@branislavjeriga6762]

The desire against large number of children is making yourself giver or rather not-giver of life...

[@a.39886]

@@branislavjeriga6762 think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,nmmm

[@Alicia_W413]

Life is filled with sacrifices. If this is the sacrifice I can offer to God then it is a blessing to me, because He gave His life and blood for me and the whole world. Hallelujah.

[@adventureinallthings]

@@Alicia_W413 perhaps I should not say this but one gets the distinct impression upon reading that reply Alicia that is is probably not that big a sacrifice for you , it doesn't seen to depress you at all , you don't seem devastating by it. ? It seems like the kind of reaction I'd expect from someone adopting a bland diet plan rather than what it is. Just an observation

[@joaovox]

Why compare the natural sexual acts in fertile and unfertile moments to euthanasia and natural death? I do not understand such analogy. If Natural sexual acts are never against conception, the question is: if it is legitimate for the married couple to engage in the act during infertile moments? What is the meaning of such act during an infertile moment? Can we objectively say that the meaning is simply that the couple is "against conception", and as such it is sin, as an act of will? Or (objectively) only God and the couple have access to the meaning of the act of will?

[@polentoni28]

By your logic, it would be sinful for a man to have sex with his wife if either one of them is (naturally and permanently) infertile.

[@joaovox]

@@polentoni28 i made question and have doubts about this video. it is not clear the logic Chris points in this video. the analogy is not clear at all. It is the matter of primary and secondary purpose of sexual acts. Does to will natural intimacy goes against the primary end of sex as procreation. The nose analogy: Does to smell goes against the primary end/purpose of breathing? How come acting towards the secondary end is against the primary end? If only the primary end was legitimate to mention a secondary end would make no sense. What is not legitimate as an end in itself should not be an end at all. The crown of marriage are children and as such for the good of children the secondary end should also be aimed in itself as a legitimate end of sexual intimacy. To aim only at intimacy during infertile moments is not against conception. "There is time for everything".

[@jackdispennett744]

Well, it's always possible for an act that appears objectively good to an outsider to actually be objectively evil because of the bad intentions of a person. For example, if I give gifts to someone simply so that I can abuse him/her later on, then that gift-giving is an objectively evil act, only because of my intention, not because gift-giving is evil. Similarly, to give an extreme example, if a couple engages in natural family planning so that they can be childless, save up a million dollars, retire young and live a life of luxury, then I think yeah, you've crossed the line of sin there because the couple is completely subverting the point of marriage, which is raising children. However, if you engage in natural family planning so that you can adopt several children that you wouldn't otherwise be able to adopt, then you're still open to life--just in a different way. Or, if you engage in natural family planning so that you can limit the number of children in your family to a number that you believe you can handle, given your psychological makeup, family resources, and the condition of the world, then that is a prudential judgment and you're not in any obvious kind of sin. I think that using natural family planning can be a sin, in the same way that not giving money to the poor is a sin. An individual instance, or even many instances, may not be a sin...but at a certain point, due to a defective attitude, you cross a line of sin. In certain cases you might not give money to the poor either because you don't have any, or because your prudential judgment is that giving money in a certain case would not be helpful or would be harmful to the person. However, at a certain point--if you NEVER give money to help the poor, then you're in Matthew 25:31-49 territory (on the goat side), a very scary place to be. Similarly, if a married couple of reproductive age decides never to have have children or to adopt any, ever, without a sufficiently serious reason (e.g. severe psychological or physical illness of one person, woman is likely to not survive childbirth, severe protracted famine with many children nearby already starving), then they're subverting what the purpose of marriage is.

[@intedominesperavi6036]

It's not an analogy. It's an example to show why only looking at the consequences isn't good. The actions are important too. I hope this helped.

[@andreaskuhner4140]

An explanation would be great. I also can't unterstand the diffence between blocking the procreation mechanically (e. condom) or with our mind/intelligence (e. natural family planning) yet. Maybe somebody who really understood the difference could explain?

[@sethapex9670]

Both methods intend to prevent birth and therefore natural family planning is not fully open to life unless the couple accepts that their act could still possibly result in a child, even if less likely than in the fertile part of the cycle. As you yourself said, it is not 100% effective. Therefore out of 1000 couples practicing it, 10-30 will produce a child each month. Across a full year, this still ends up with approximately 120-360 children that these 1000 couples did not plan for. And unless they plan on giving the child up for adoption, they will have to raise it.

[@branislavjeriga6762]

And the mentality to use NFP as contraception without grave reasons is contrary to catholic teaching...

[@maryrankin9869]

Take a chance. Everything always works out. Have FAITH man!

[@sethapex9670]

@@maryrankin9869 God makes all things work together for the good of those who love Him, but he also causes rain and sun to fall on the wicked and righteous together, and there is a season for all things in life. These are all true statements from scripture, and we must hold both of them together when making decisions.

[@freehorse7299]

God bless you and your families.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

God bless you, too @freehorse7299 . Thank you for being a regular viewer.

[@cmsa3]

Thank you for these videos. Can you speak to (especially husbands) waiting after a child for wife’s body to settle back into fertility cycle for accurate readings. Between pregnancy and nursing, that could be a year or so. You say suck it up, that’s love, but any further comments or tips?

[@verum-in-omnibus1035]

That sounds extraordinarily problematic in distancing the intimacy in a marriage, simply to prevent another life come in to being.

[@bedheadbutterfly]

Not full advice, just a comment here: I have been in this postpartum & nursing stage twice (plus a third time, right now), lasting about six months before a cycle return each time. I haven't charted my temperatures since right before my first pregnancy and have sparingly charted other symptoms, and I haven't been pregnant again until after a few cycles each time. I am very irregular, long cycles. All this info to say that even loosely following NFP, abstaining sometimes but not to avoid pregnancy, I have not been caught off-guard and while it's hard to get in the swing of things for both man and wife (new dad and new mom) during postpartum, it might not have to be a nerve-wracking experience simply because cycles have not started. I hope this helps until CW gets to talk about it!

[@JP2GiannaT]

I can't speak highly enough about the Marquette method of NFP. Because it measures hormone levels in urine, it's a lot easier to read than temperature and it gives you a heads up when fertility is returning, meaning that you can actually enjoy a respite period between birth and return of fertility where you can enjoy intimacy without worry. Still lots of abstaining once the woman's body starts trying to start things back up, but it's a matter of a few weeks at a time rather than months or a year.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

I'm not Catholic, and I have never once in my life heard pastors talk about this issue.. and the more I listen to you talk, combined with watching modern post-pill society and comparing it to the past, the more convinced I am that you are right. People are much less happy having promiscuous but sterile sex. We're meant to be fruitful and multiply. The people who own all the land and lease it out instead of sell it, the people who hold all the money but lend it at interest instead of generously giving it away -- these are the same people who run all the businesses but encourage and even pay for contraception (and now abortion) instead of giving maternity leave. If we loved God instead of money, we would have a more family-friendly economic system. The suffering that my generation is experiencing, from the poverty, the lack of hope for the future, the futility to work, to the depression, anxiety, sexual frustration, regret, and guilt -- it all started with feminism and the pill. Women gained nothing but cats, wine, and an entire closet full of empty egg cartons. Men gained nothing but shame and meaninglessness. Women can no longer nurture, and men can no longer provide. So we invert the roles of the sexes and seek to change our bodies to match our confused minds. Or we become sexually deviant instead. There's no hope for our society, in the sense of strictly practical day-to-day living, if we can't change our minds and turn the ship around. Anti-natalism is the ideology of the Antichrist. All of these things- masturbation, porn, usury, abusive rental, hoarding, uncontrolled migration, low birth rates, even "harmless" things like copyright, patent, and the stock market -- and yes, contraception, too - are the distorted, stillborn children of the anti-natal mindset. We are incurring God's wrath because we hate our offspring. When his wrath is fully ripe and begins to bear fruit, we'll all die clutching our riches that can never save us. God help us.

[@antoniomoyal]

Come home to the Catholic church

[@yallsfuturepresident]

uncontrolled migration?!?! whatever happened to welcoming the stranger in the strange land??

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@@yallsfuturepresident Uncontrolled migration is what happened when the Vandals invaded Rome. You don't want that. Compassion for the stranger at the expense of one's own family is not compassion, it's a slow-release form of infanticide. If we are to welcome the foreigner and the stranger, it must be through lawful means. Notice that in all the old-testament passages that speak of foreigners and strangers, they are required to obey the same laws as the Israelites? I'm all for compassion for strangers and foreigners, as long as it's lawful and maintains the proper balance of power. It's obviously wrong for foreign-born immigrants to displace the native inhabitants of the land and ignore the laws of the people who welcomed them in... Well, this has almost nothing to do with my main point. Try reading the original comment again without, and this time try to follow the topic instead of intentionally missing the point?

[@yallsfuturepresident]

@@josephbrandenburg4373 didn't miss the point. I agreed with every other thing you said -- migration was the sticking point. You're talking more about assimilating into the culture not patterns of immigration. I agree that anyone that migrates to another country must follow the laws of their new home. Welcoming the stranger without feeling the need to issue a visa, so long as they don't commit crimes -- that just makes sense to me. But controlling where people travel to? bananas. Travel is freedom and should not be restricted by governments.

[@josephbrandenburg4373]

@@yallsfuturepresident 🤔 Perhaps we agree more than I thought... but I don't think you can keep the citizens of a country protected without controlling travel at the border with visas or some kind of paperwork. How can you deport the people that do commit crimes if you don't have any identification for them? How do you prevent re-entry? Borders, walls, locks, fortresses... these exist to protect people. Traveling is freedom, maybe. But every spot of land is owned. It isn't as if there are vast, untainted stretches of land for people to travel through like nomads. If I can get arrested for squatting in an unused apartment building, just because someone owns it, then I think it's only fair to have some rules about who can enter the country. I wouldn't want to welcome any immigrant from a nation that's at war with my own for instance. You have to remember that many countries have replacement-level, or even lower, birthrates. We should be building societies that foster growth, having our own babies. In a more sensible society, the native population would be growing fast enough to accommodate a lot more immigration. Finally, I believe that the native inhabitants of a country should be the ones to decide how many immigrants to welcome, using their systems of laws.

[@techmsl3283]

Working in Healthcare sort of, I think it is important to recognize that there are reasons other than avoiding pregnancy why women may need to use contraception. There are conditions such as Menorrhagia that I have learned a bit about where it is technically not necessary, but kind of rediculous to say so. Maybe there are other treatment options, but if your doctor says to use contraception, especially for conditions unrelated to pregnancy, I don't see where the sin would result from. That said, I appreciate that you mention that even married couples should abstain from sex sometimes as even Saint Paul himself talks about it... I forget where

[@truliberty524]

This is the only thing that keeps me from Catholicism. It makes no sense to me to get married, unless I want to be in an ultra poor family, completely stressed with defect babies from late in age births, or never touch or look at my wife ever again until she's old for fear of being tempted. It's easier to be a priest and never be intimate then live with a wife, where you're tempted every day. Clearly from Jesus' story God will find a way if he wants it to happen and contraception isn't 100% effective either. I do take the side of no abortions and never got one or will ever because I do think that's wrong.

[@JackpotJoey.]

I’m in the same boat except I am Catholic I was raised one. However this make make me leave and join the EOC which saddens me because I love everything about the church and mass except this one thing.

[@loganparsons5179]

@@JackpotJoey.If you believe the church has everything else right excerpt this one issue, then could it be that your selfish desires are keeping you from submitting to the church in this matter? Or is it more likely that somehow the church messes up on this one matter?

[@loganparsons5179]

Were you listening to him when he mentioned the efficacy of NFP? 98-99% is as effective as other mean of birth control

[@JackpotJoey.]

So are other denominations especially the EOC wrong for allowing contraception to be used?

[@identytarysta2892]

Before 1930 basically all non-catholic denominations rejected contraception as something sinful.

[@blungeye]

I'm cathllic and still struggle with this question.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

If you'd be open to a deeper explanation of the topic and the reasoning behind it, Christopher has a best selling book where he goes deep into the issue. You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage

[@elizabethcsicsery-ronay1633]

We are too animals. Just not just animals.

[@karenpowell3800]

How many people are divorced that are catholic?

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

By definition, zero.

[@Mandy-ph9rl]

How about a Catholic spouse cheated and contracted herpes or HIV, should you use contraception to protect your spouse or divorce?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Hello! Thank you for your question. Christopher get's into the details on his book "Good News About Sex & Marriage." You can find it here: You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage but we also have this free playlist where he walks you through the text: kzbin.info/aero/PLAbqXQaOvkM4Q01szl54g7Sj9mJ8bfKf0&si=zZG7qYfniz9J_KKB

[@mayaburgess5940]

Where’s the link to the other video?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Sorry about that! It's this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZm0lYSkoZerhZI

[@karenpowell3800]

So why do I bleed out of my ear?

[@prackertracker7189]

WOW thank you I have searched for this for weeks hahahaha

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We're so glad it blessed you!

[@hggfhh4449]

Beside the pill I do not see how contraception is anti Christian to married couples?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

If you'd be open to a deeper explanation of the topic and the reasoning behind it, Christopher has a best selling book where he goes deep into the issue. You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage

[@timtrainer10]

Could you please answer me two questions and regards to this topic? I understand that it is a form of contraception to use the withdrawal method. Is it equally as bad to have intercourse and not the action and it’s entirety it’s a situation arises that takes you away from the act itself such as a baby waking you up during the middle of the night and you have to get up in four hours and you haven’t slept the past 3 to 4 days.? I would assume that purposefully not completed. The act would be de a form of contraception, but I would like to hear your thoughts on that please and your thoughts as well if there is a reason why you can’t continue.? you very much and I appreciate your time

[@carpesunshine]

This is hard when women have their most desire during the most fertile time. This is spoken pregnant lady sick in bed for almost 3 months though. My faith is being tested. Praying for Gods Strength. Strength from Jesus and Mary 🙏 We do natural family planning but my husband is not Catholic and it has been hard on him. We had intercourse during a risky time. The amazing thing is I ovulated 3 days early on my 33 days to morning Glory devotion day. It really gives a new meaning to selfless and fighting selfish feelings too

[@branislavjeriga6762]

Sorry to be maybe harsh, but if you do not have grave reason, it is not ok to use NFP.

[@maryrankin9869]

@@branislavjeriga6762 OMG God is in charge. God knows your heart and soul. We can't be worried with fear!

[@Damaris972.]

​@@branislavjeriga6762 good reason to use NFP: mental health, physical health, financial issues, spacing of pregnancy. You do not have a grave reason

[@branislavjeriga6762]

@@Damaris972. if it is not a grave reason (as Paul VI mentions), how can the reason be good in support?

[@montymython754]

Yeah, but hormonal birth control tends to kill women’s sex drives.

[@1001011011010]

Motivated by true love, a holy marriage can be a truly moving and great witness in the world.

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,..mm

[@1001011011010]

@@a.39886 Marriage is with one man, not different men. The man shouldn't step out. Divorce is too easy in the West. If you literally cannot afford to have more children then simply abstain from having so many relations until you can. Yes, you have responsibilities toward your children. You have responsibilities for what you do in life in general. But it is not to grow fearful of messing up that we don't do anything, but rather that we go boldly and trust in God. We aren't perfect, and what we do may not succeed. But that doesn't stop one from doing what he should or can.

[@fernandounda3681]

@@1001011011010 you may try to avoid this hard true but with the exception of terrible cases of abuse, all other conception is consensual in the act, nobody forced you to have intimacy and then have children, it was you who brought them into the world and you will also be guilty if they end up suffering eternally in hell just for satisfy your carnal desire, Think that every day you see your children there will be Satan, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, and all other devil religion and the world and the flesh itself trying to damn your child for eternity the moment they are born,,,

[@a.39886]

@@1001011011010 Let me explain the following: People bring a child into the world, it is most likely that he will end up being condemned to hell, which is established in the bible in Matthew 7: 13-14. “13 You can only enter the kingdom of God through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to hell; That is why many people prefer them. 14 But small is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life, and very few people find it." There is no way that as mere humans we can guarantee that if we have children they will go to heaven, so we will be responsible for allowing them to come into the world and then their future eternal torture in hell and damnation. Even those who try to search cannot because Satan, other evil religions, the world and the flesh itself are doing everything possible to condemn them to hell for eternity from the moment they are born. James 1:14-15 1 "14 But each one is tempted, when he is drawn away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then lust, after it has conceived, gives birth to sin; and sin, being finished, gives birth to to light death. John 2:16: “men alienated from God governed by their passions, by the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and by the pride of life” Luke 13:23-24. 23 Someone asked him, "Lord, are there few who are saved?" And he replied, 24 “Do your best to enter through the narrow gate, because I tell you that many will try to enter and will not be able to do so. Now if we as humans deal with this truth here on earth, and we are aware that except for terrible cases of abuse, every other conception and life that comes into the world is consensual in the intimate act, we cannot say that nobody forced us to bring children into the world, it was we ourselves who brought them into the world and if they end up being condemned, we would be part of that process since we could choose not to become intimate in the flesh, either in sin or within marriage. Being an omniscient God, that is to say, he has perfect wisdom and knowledge of what is going to happen and even despite knowing that most of the population was going to be condemned to hell, he allowed existence to continue even when I could have avoided all the pain and suffering of hell for the majority of his creation. First with Adam and Eve knowing that they were going to eat the forbidden fruit and then with Noah exterminating the world through the flood and saving his life and his family. Genesis 2:16-17 “16 Then the LORD God commanded the man, “You may freely eat from any tree in the garden, 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for on the day you do, you will surely die.” Genesis 6:7 “7 Then the LORD said, “I will wipe the human being whom I have created from the face of the earth. I will destroy human beings, domestic animals, those that crawl on the ground and the birds of the sky because I am sorry I made them.”n

[@Damaris972.]

Your analogy about euthanasia and natural death is really bad. You are not hurting anyone in using a barrier method or pull out (I'm against any hormonal contraceptives, might be abortifacient), both this and NFP are unlikely to produce a child but still can happen. Same thing and same spirit of contraception

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

Absolute W comment. Same logic. At what point on the pregnancy probability spectrum does the Church decide what is open to life? NFP could likely have a contraceptive higher than that of a condom or pullout. One is a physical contraception and the other, one of the mind.

[@veronika4606]

Thanks for the video! By the way a studies found that couples who practice NFP only have a 3 % divorce rate:)

[@veronika4606]

@Cortney Nicholson You are right that there are only relatively few couples who practice solely NFP. But even 1.6 % is in total a not so small number overall and you should think, that the divorce rate should be around the average. Between 3% and 50% is a pretty big difference I think:)

[@sitka49]

@Cortney Nicholson The other crux of this also is that just because your not divorcing doesn't necessarily mean your in a happy marriage, is religion keeping you in a bad marriage? No one knows what goes on behind closed doors. Looking back in 50's early to mid 60's how many women where economically trap in a abusive or bad marriage because the husband was the breadwinner and in control of the finances - devote Catholics don't divorce. Right! And would you even get annulment from the church for abusive marriage?

[@branislavjeriga6762]

For those couples that do not use NFP because they understand that they do not have "grave reasons"(which is arguably the wast majority of people, but rarely spoken about...) ... I would like to see that statistics

[@a.39886]

@@veronika4606 think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,n,,

[@nosuchthing8]

Yeah, because who wants to marry someone with 30 children??.

[@aisthpaoitht]

That is ridiculous to say that sex without procreation is an animal act of being in heat. That is insulting and wrong. And wrong with the teaching of the Church. Sex is unitive, not JUST procreative. Why can't sex be only for unitive reasons?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for taking the time to watch other videos for a more holistic explanation. That means that you're truly trying to understand where we're coming from. We really encourage you to check out Good News About Sex and Marriage for a much more nuanced dive into these topics.

[@oswaldomaldonado1051]

yes

[@kylealandercivilianname2954]

They should build an AI that tells them when they are ready to mingle

[@emilylang7844]

Should we refrain from sex until we are after child bearing years if it isn’t plausible to have anymore kids?

[@creedy8612]

Highly suggest the lady comp monitor. Life changing

[@kelkabot]

Yes. You knew the answer before you asked.

[@parkerbrantley4356]

If the rhythm method is not the "modern version" then what is? Obstaining from vaginal intercourse for approximately 5 days a month is really the only way you can avoid a baby by doing NFP. How is this menthod "98% affective" but "your grandmother's rhythm method" is less affective.

[@kelkabot]

I agree with everything he’s saying. But the glib, flippant delivery isn’t likely to win others to his side. He’s so annoying that I almost find myself wanting to take the opposite side. Surely there’s a better exponent for the cause.

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

Thank you for sharing your comment. If you'd be open to a deeper explanation of the topic and the reasoning behind it, Christopher has a best selling book where he goes deep into these issues. You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage

[@nosuchthing8]

Jesus never condemned it, Moses and the ten commandments didn't condemn it.

[@jacobb7890]

Didn’t condemn rape or tax fraud either

[@politicalsushi3191]

​@jacobb7890 Rape would be adultery, so yeah it does actually. And you're right about the tex fraud thing. That's government, not God. In fact taxes might be construed by God as theft. I don't know

[@nosuchthing8]

@politicalsushi3191 uh, no. Married people can have sex, but also can commit rape.

[@nosuchthing8]

@politicalsushi3191 Jesus would say, give to Caesar what is Caesars.

[@karenpowell3800]

Not get married?

[@joselongo1601]

Waou...for teachings like these I can't come back to the church

[@maryrankin9869]

Yes you can. God is forgiving. Ask the Holy Spirit to change your ways if you must!

[@a.39886]

@@maryrankin9869 think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,..n

[@nosuchthing8]

@@a.39886 you are ridiculous

[@a.39886]

@@nosuchthing8 so you dont believe in god?

[@nosuchthing8]

@@a.39886 why do you say that? Focus your mind and try to prove that Jesus opposed contraception.

[@DieCornelius]

Wow

[@sarahjimison6200]

Blows my mind how these ppl can jus throw out what The Holy Bible teaches on sex n come up w ther own bizzare teachings like this that violate common sense 100

[@nosuchthing8]

When human lives were very short, around 30 Yeats, and children death rates so high, it was to have a child every year or so. Now it's crazy. And what about having children when the woman is too old?

[@sitka49]

We had the kids (we went forth multiplied ) we wanted , then I got snipped, we didn't like the fact we had to abstain for 12 -15 days month ( that is the fact a mans sperm can survive up 5 -6 days in a a women ) The other 15 days once she was done ovulating my wife wasn't that interested in sex - asking for sex ever time ( sometimes more like begging )? the sex was usually one sided and not very good. And by the way , thin walls never stopped us, if it does your just not doing it right - if there's a will there's away.

[@chrisobrien6254]

This teaching will probably change, in fact it almost did. But like with anything else in the Roman Catholic Church it will probably take another thousand years or so before it does😑

[@kelkabot]

A lot of people posting here think it’s outrageous that they should be asked to exercise self-control regarding sex. Guess what? Until the middle of the twentieth children, EVERY Christian denomination saw contraception as a grave sin against God. Think about that.

[@heathc148]

“Urge to merge” 😂

[@orlandoruiz19]

I understand the only time the church allows a married couple to use, in this case condoms, is if one of them is H I V +. But what happens if the woman has a health situation where if she gets pregnant, she could die? it could happen either during pregnancy or labor, and it is confirmed by a doctor. What would the church say about that? Would they have to evaluate ach and every individual case?

[@TheologyoftheBodyInstitute]

We'd highly recommend reading Christopher's Good New's About Sex and Marriage. It will answer all your concerns directly and provide clarity on the Church's teaching. You can find it here: shop.corproject.com/products/good-news-about-sex-and-marriage

[@joecam1167]

So, thought i had when you mentioned the couple waiting until menopause. That would also be wrong, as God would be moving you to have intercourse with your wife throughout your marriage, and it would also break his command of be fruitful and multiply. So arguing that if you were to suck it up, dismisses the premise of the argument that as those called to the vocation of marriage, we should be fruitful and raise children to fulfill our vocation.

[@ethanralph0]

😇

[@karenpowell3800]

Where does it say to have children even if it can kill a woman?

[@Whiskey.Tango.Actual]

Reductio ad absurdum is not an argument. It's surprising just how many women in the KZbin comments have a medical condition by which pregnancy is a death sentence. The Church permits all married couples to discern their own circumstances.

[@-Viva-Cristo-Rey]

St Gianna Beretta Molla 😊

[@lizauger9828]

Just love your husband simple

[@dicliew]

Abstinence is immoral too.

[@emiliomilian4284]

Complete command over your desires- can’t be

[@haydenharris3059]

I do love a good comedy 🤣

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,n,,m

[@-Viva-Cristo-Rey]

It won't be funny on judgment day

[@haydenharris3059]

@@-Viva-Cristo-Rey judgment day is in your imagination

[@TheBibleCatholic]

Thank you for this great video.

[@lucyk2371]

If this works, how come catholicism is notorious for having huge families? In a perfect world abstinance would work. If every couple had as many children as they possibly can, we would use up the world's resources. I think this stance is incredibly harmful. You have people having huge families that cannot afford them. They follow the one command but not the other. I consistantly see huge families that are almost always catholic. I could also argue that God gave us contraception so women could live longer and provide their children with better lives. In my family history on both sides there are huge families (Back before contraception). There were 2 wives because of the 1st wife dying from child birth and then remarriage. Last im pretty sure a lot Catholics arent following this one . I see a lot more small families than i used to in the catholic church. Just a thought. I have yet to find this commandment in the Bible.

[@montymython754]

They used to teach the rhythm method, which is far less effective.

[@lucyk2371]

@@montymython754 what are they teaching now? The rhythm method I thought was just watching the calendar which is what is discussed here.

[@montymython754]

@@lucyk2371 NFP is different. You are right about the rhythm method, and it assumes every woman has the same cycle and that he ovulation occurs on the same cycle day each time. NFP requires monitoring of bodily fluids, testing for ovulation, and confirming ovulation by taking a temperature. It works whether your cycles are regular or irregular. I’m secular circles this form of birth control is referred to as “Fertility Awareness Method”, or FAM. It is very, very effective when used correctly.

[@lucyk2371]

@@montymython754 I hope that you are right.

[@veddermn8]

Natural family planning is not nearly 100% effective. There is a chance of pregnancy occurring at any time during the cycle, although obviously the percentages go up and down.

[@creedy8612]

Neither is birth control or any other contraceptive . Your point? You can’t control God .

[@veddermn8]

@@creedy8612 Point is its just odd that NFP is allowed by the Church when its purpose is to not be open to life. It just feels like competeing messages.

[@creedy8612]

@@veddermn8 it is always open to life. Even if I track my cycle, and God has other plans and gives me a baby when I think I’m not fertile, I don’t reject my husbands sperm at any time through a chemical or any other barrier method. There are times when periodic abstinence is ok and the church approves this. They don’t approve medically castrating yourself because you want to screw like a rabbit without those pesky kids. Selfishness at its core. People want sex without kids or the responsibility’. There are times when you can’t have anymore kids and the church gives reasons for this that are completely ok. So if God gives us a cycle and we have the knowledge to know when to not have sex and the church tells us this is ok, then why are we questioning it? The church never said you should have kids until you drop dead. The couple prayerfully discerns. I just had my 7th baby and I have health issues now, so why would I go and get pregnant right away? That’s why God gave us knowledge and exercise of self control and a means that’s natural to do so.

[@veddermn8]

@@creedy8612 NFP is trying to do it without responsibility just as much as other contraception though. Neither NFP nor other contraceptive methods are 100% effective so you can't say one is open to life while others aren't. They all are under the same "not quite 100% effective" umbrella. Only abstinence is 100%. I don't think there's anything wrong with NFP, but the church's reasoning on why it's different than other methods doesn't add up.

[@creedy8612]

@@veddermn8 the pill cna cause an abortion chemically so that’s a huge difference and it’s pumping poison into you body. You’re shutting down your natural cycle. It’s a chemical barrier so that’s huge. Point blank, sperm is to go nowhere else but where God intended it to go, so condoms are out. NFP there are no artificial barriers between you and your husband. It teaches self control. If you have no self control in your sex life then you have issues. Sex has a purpose and its first purpose is procreation, and second unitive. Just like eating. Foods primary person is to give nutrients and it’s secondary is pleasure or enjoyment . Too much food without any self control is gluttony. Look at peoples sexual appetites and it says a lot about the person and where they’re lacking. People act as though they will die without sex. Sex without any self control gives you a whole host of problems. NFP teaches you to view your spouse as something more than just a piece of meat, and it also shows you where you’re being selfish. The pill, iud, condom etc are all chemical and barrier methods preventing the natural act the way God intended it from happening.

[@juliosantoyo9916]

This is a terrible take. Sex plays a VITAL role in a romantic relationship, simply look at the amount of divorce that occurs due to lack of sex, look at the amount of adultery that results from either partner denying sex to the other. And even worse, look at the amount of kids that suffer financially because they're parents didn't use contraception. And then to simply say oh just don't do it, or just wait until your wife becomes infertile is simply dumb, most women become infertile well into there 40s and guys begin to have erectile dysfunction problems, sex drive general is not the same, you mean to tell me that not having those moments of intimacy with your partner wont damage the relationship in some way? Im not say that the relationship is all about sex but it sure is a big part of it

[@Joseph-es6mu]

vasectomies end the problem.

[@cosmogamer9914]

.....have children....

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,n,,,

[@cosmogamer9914]

@@a.39886 ?

[@aribbonatatime]

Don't forget that there are several other bodily cavities to play around with that don't result in pregnancy. Kind of a middle ground.

[@ultra.based.27]

Guess what, the church considers that a sin too. Everything is a sin unfortunately.

[@jasminemariedarling]

​@@ultra.based.27Exactly. I'm having a major problem with this church teaching. It doesn't make sense to me. Within marriage it's only ok to have sex for procreation but you can "plan around" procreation and have sex at specific times, trying not to get pregnant but it's not ok for bj/hj/just pull out? It's too much. I was considering becoming Catholic but my husband (athiest) would never understand all these sex rules, and honestly i don't get them either. I understand monogamy is important. But all this? Too much.

[@ultra.based.27]

@@jasminemariedarling in the bible it is said that having sex with your spouse is ok as much and as often as you like. I researched the matter. The people that think sex is a sin in marriage too are frustrated virgins that are just coping.

[@Adam-fj9px]

@@jasminemariedarling I'm on the same page, I agree with the church that sex should be for marriage and should hopefully produce life, but I just can't accept that absolutely every single sexual act MUST end in a potentially procreative way, and then all the mental gymnastics to justify NFP are too far out. For me what goes on in a husband and wife's bedroom is up to them and them only.

[@pastorbri]

CONTRACEPTION IS NOT IMMORAL, THATS MANS WORD!

[@Damaris972.]

Not all contraception in immoral but hormonal ones are because could be abortifacient

[@pastorbri]

@@Damaris972. no contraception is wrong

[@mayaburgess5940]

Man also made contraception….

[@pastorbri]

@@mayaburgess5940 which is a good thing

[@aprilangel416]

😂😂😂

[@DG-zv4bl]

I don't agree with this? Yes you can't expect a couple to bare 30 kids, but you also can't expect them to have to track the woman's ovulation time everytime they want to engage! That would put a strain on any relationship! Condoms really are the simplest solution.

[@branislavjeriga6762]

I have never heard of any married couple having 30 kids

[@DG-zv4bl]

@@branislavjeriga6762 don't you get the point I was trying to make?

[@branislavjeriga6762]

@@DG-zv4bl yes, you say your point at the end. I disagree with thr premise and therefore cannot come to that conclusion anyway...

[@andelaroztocilova8367]

@@branislavjeriga6762 I was pregnant 4 times in 5 years. Married in 21. Well...

[@a.39886]

@@branislavjeriga6762 think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,..

[@greenghost2008]

The purpose is to have fun. Having kids is a thing it can also do. Religion sounds boring.

[@ultra.based.27]

Religion is boring but it saved a lot of people including me. Society collapses without religion.

[@greenghost2008]

@@ultra.based.27 the best countries on Earth to live in are majority atheist.

[@ultra.based.27]

@@greenghost2008 those countries became civilized because of religion and now they are declining because of atheism.

[@-Viva-Cristo-Rey]

If you understand the true essence and have had an encounter with the lord , you understand the meaning behind his plan. God's plans are not to hold you down or to restrict you , its calling you to a greater sense of freedom! There is freedom in self control. Its the secular world that tricks people into believing that they don't require self control and acting according to their lustful ways will guarantee sexual satisfaction. This is sadly not true.

[@emiliomilian4284]

@@greenghost2008boring because we can’t fulfill our immediate desires?

[@karenpowell3800]

Vasectomy?

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,n

[@mikaelnazir7768]

Modern pleasure-loving man does not want to hear this word: Every intimate marital sexual union that has no possibility of producing a child is actually a form of sodomy. Sex for pleasure alone, no matter with whom and how it is performed is sodomy. This is also a shadow picture or type of a spiritual reality about our relationship of covenant marriage union with our Head, our King, our Messiah, if it does not result in a conception, form and birth Christ within your spiritual deep inner womb, it is either a virtual union or a union with a false christ, another spirit, thus it is a vain religion for thrills and an emotional high, just like having sex for a dopamine hit and not for reproduction.

[@lucyk2371]

Good luck with that view.

[@politicalsushi3191]

That isn't even what the Bible says

[@jasminemariedarling]

Why does songs of Solomon go on and on about taking pleasure in each other's body within marriage

[@lovelyandsmartcommentator5130]

Birth control saves lives.

[@feerstyy]

Or never have kids cause you're infertile.

[@annainestecchia3019]

This series is so good - thank you so much! On the contrary, if a couple cannot conceive how far the Church allow us to go with medical screening? Thanks!

[@a.39886]

think in adoption,. In Central America, Latin America and Africa where woman have 3,4,5,6 children usually from different fathers, this woman alone or even marriage can`t provide even food to their children entire families live on streets, or inhuman condition and usually the mother is pregnant again. I will kind you remember there every child you bring to the world may end in hell and there is no way you can`t guarantee they will go to heaven so you will be held accountable for their eternal torture in hell and damnation for the children you bring to the world.,,nm