If You Struggle With Shame, Watch This | Being Well Podcast

Shame is one of the most complex and difficult emotions we experience on a regular basis, and one that can have seriously negative impacts on our sense of self-worth and ability to experience healthy connection with others.
On this episode of Being Well, Dr. Rick Hanson and I take a deep dive into what shame is, how it develops, what distinguishes it from guilt and other related emotions, and how questioning our assumptions about it can help us identify its origins in our lives so we can make an informed decision on how to respond to it.
Key Topics:
0:00 Introduction
1:30 The biological roots of shame
4:00 How shame is tied to our assumptions about how the world works
6:55 Impropriety and shame as a psychological stage of development
9:55 Distinguishing shame from guilt
14:10 Unnecessary shame, healthy remorse, and your own integrity system
22:15 Who decides what being good looks like?
26:10 Morality in the service of power
31:45 What helps us work with experiences of shame
38:00 Isolation and the value of sharing with others in some way
43:45 Working with your shame story
49:00: Shame, group belonging, and personal changes
51:35: Recap
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Who Am I: I'm Forrest, the co-author of Resilient (amzn.to/3iXLerD) and host of the Being Well Podcast (apple.co/38ufGG0). I'm making videos focused on simplifying psychology, mental health, and personal growth.
You can follow me here:
🎤 apple.co/38ufGG0
🌍 www.forresthanson.com
📸 / f.hanson

[@hantran5651]

I was ashamed of my parents, my appearance, my lack of money, my past. Feelings are NOT analytical. Thank you for this. I feel a little better. After listening to Forrest, I now affirm to myself, what I was believing, " NO, IT'S NOT TRUE."🎉

[@hantran5651]

Forest must be my lottery win. Never thought I be lucky enough to find healing like this. Never had the funds and had a terrible, traumatic, damaging childhood to the point that my major in college was Childhood Development. Struggled to keep a job. Now, chose the tough profession of rescuing animals at more expenses than income. Forest is a gift from heaven.

[@Gothgalactica]

I relate so hard to you. Horrible treatment growing up. Hyper sensitive to the treatment and pain of animals and kids.

[@lisawarren8362]

One thing I have a lot of shame around is MONEY-or the lack thereof. Most of my friends have a LOT more money than me & I sometimes opt out of events & lunches, birthdays, you name it because I can’t afford it. It keeps me isolated & a lot of people just stop asking me to do things. Wish you could’ve said a bit more about that. But GREAT talk!

[@sunnyadams5842]

I would find that Topic VERY VALUABLE, too!! I would LOVE to listen to you and your dad chat for an hour about Money and Power etc.!! Why are some of us perfectly intelligent etc people poor? I could suggest lots of answers, but - would like to hear yours...

[@AnaK-kx4lr]

Financial trauma

[@Gothgalactica]

I am the same way as you! Lifelong shame around a lack of money. Even though I know it’s arbitrary, society revolves around it.. may we find ourselves in the fortunes that make us happy. 🙏🏽

[@moon8520]

This was so relieving to hear. I have ADHD and I have grown up with a lot of shame and guilt surrounding my symptoms. I feel that same shame about not being able to enjoy a social setting when everyone else is. I feel shame around my “inability to connect to others.” This has brought light to me. I’m not to shame because of this-I have different sensory and internal needs than others. There’s nothing wrong with that. I feel the urge to teach my parents this so they stop shaming me, but I know they won’t listen. So I will just keep it to myself and heal myself like I am right now ❤

[@dcat1730]

Ugh this is so hard, I struggle with this too. Being "too much" talking to much, texting etiquette and I'm trying to be more compassionate toward myself as I figure things out ❤ you're definitely not alone in these feelings, it's hard!

[@nopeIdontthinkso388]

There is also healing in verbalizing your new understanding.

[@tastysand05]

Hearing your dad say “it’s okay” “there’s nothing to be ashamed of” was so comforting, your discussions are so meaningful and have made a profound difference to me in so little of time :) thank you

[@mariahhelm5488]

Thank you so much for talking about this topic. I've been going to therapy for the past 8 years but only recently learned through IFS therapy that my root emotion is shame. This conversation was helpful, and I appreciate it. I did, however, hope to hear more about shame surrounding the "I'm not good enough" wound. That's where most of my shame comes from. With that said, it was still a very valuable talk, and I took a lot of insight from it.

[@Gothgalactica]

Same, and lack of money. The I’m not good enough shame is at my core. 🙁

[@leila595]

I simply LOVE the reasoning in these podcast episodes! Listening some more, I have to add that shame is not selfish, but an attack on the self. And people do "share" their shame, through their toxicity to others.

[@irickkm]

I love this dialog and teaching from father and son. Very informative and respectful.

[@dannychen1064]

thank you for this episode. Just the subject that I'm searching for. I've bundled up so much shame over the past 3 decades, and it feels so overwhelming to correct it back to normal.

[@c.9850]

Forrest you are such a nice man. I enjoy listening to you.

[@Hanna-Nyasa]

Such a powerful podcast and a super necessary topic. Shame can be passed down through the family line through projection. Especially toxic shame from dysfunction family dynamics and abuse.

[@louisemorgan7887]

You have given me hope and relief. Thank you,

[@sqrfoot6548]

The best example of grown child / parent dynamics xxx

[@mjparent222]

oh, i love that : i was a good enough person today ! so good, thank you again and again. very much delighted by all your kind words. I really enjoy the recap at the end, it really summarize beautifully organize all the content of the talks. thank you very very very much. I am working on my safe-space, where I can share a little and feel ok about it, and know when It's better to keep it to my self.

[@lori6156]

I strongly recommend the book by Rebecca Mandeville, Rejected shamed and blamed. She should’ve won a Nobel prize for this book.

[@CJ-hh3gx]

Thank you for covering this. As someone with shamebound emotions from an upbringing of strict expectation, I really appreciate this. I am on a journey of untangling myself from my childhood and this has been very helpful to hear.

[@wendyalward6549]

Good episode ! Great topic.

[@LisaSmith-yb2uz]

Wow 🤩 this has gotta be one of my favourite episodes so far! ❤(but then again, i have been watching them all in a very random and sporadic order) 🤫☺️

[@suesuki9652]

I appreciate your video help me out of my depression . Deep inside the shame of myself

[@benbrown411]

You too are really a beautiful pair. Your gentle voices...in addition to the thoughtful discussions have helped me a great deal. Thank you for your dedication to helping so many people. May God bless was you both abundantly!

[@RizminaFathi-wx9go]

I am so grateful for this episode 🙏The content and the summary helped me to grasp a lot . This is a great social service. Thank you so much . I am from Sri Lanka 🇱🇰

[@dragon6414]

Thank you for this

[@whiteoaksroad]

Thank you for another excellent video. Shame and the critical voice inside our heads that shames us it at the core of so much pain. It was so helpful to hear of your example of how your partner shared her experience that causes her shame, and you help validate her experience as normal and accept her feeling shame, and how that helps her to regulate and heal. What happens when your partner is the one who shames you? Who invalidates your experience, tells you your feeling is true, but that the cause of why you feel that way has nothing to do with reality - it is all just a story you are telling yourself? How can you tell if your partner is someone you should keep trusting even though they hurt you, because you thinking it’s them who is hurting you is only a distortion in your mind - or if your perception is accurate and the words they say or tone of voice actually is hurtful. When shame is a core experience, it is hard to trust yourself when someone you love says your perception is wrong. It is very disorienting and scary not to trust your perception of reality - is this person hurting me, or are they loving me and I am just projecting past trauma of being hurt onto them? I identify as having fearful avoidant attachment and am struggling to discern whether I am misinterpreting behavior from my partner as hurtful due to distortions of my fearful perception, or if my experience of being hurt by him is valid. Could you please do a video about how to distinguish fear from intuition? How to tell if feeling unsafe is due to fear based on misperception vs fear based on true emotional threat? How to identity healthy vs unhealthy relationship? Thank you!

[@ravenraven966]

Elizabeth, I do have an opinion about the question you are asking... I came to understand from three years of talking to a therapist that my mother was toxic ...and she caused me to doubt my perceptions....it did me a lot of damage all through my life with other toxic and abusive people.... I'm trying hard to learn to trust myself.... Anyone who makes you question your feelings is or could be toxic to you... We need to validate each other.. that is healthy... Otherwise we could be damaged from what is called gaslighting... Which is abusive... It makes you question your reality... Not good... I hope you will look further into this subject . 🕊️

[@shahilagh]

all your questions, are they ... , tell me you have been gaslighted by that person and/or others as much as you are not even sure about your own feeling. listen to ur heart and don't allow people underestimate you. your heart knows exactly what is the intention of others. listen to it, don't listen to the noise.

[@shahilagh]

@@ravenraven966 absolutely

[@Peaches328]

Brilliant, you and your dad are teachers Great insights to what and how Very informative and educating Shame can lead ppl to dark places I like the way you describe both sides of an emotional issue Since no one is perfect, finding a balance I think would be something to work towards Like a place where you don't feel judged Where you feel comfortable and have found some acceptance of oneself and forgiveness There are ppl that can stay in rigid beliefs forever i.e. religion But secretly begrudging it Changing behaviors is really hard work Breaking out of habits Anyway it's a great channel You guys are sensitive and so good at what you do in your segments 👍👍💗

[@eileenpillmeier3270]

Great end summary!

[@keertilodi7765]

Thank you guys ❤

[@vietotu3937]

this is really informative, kind and easy to follow. I have adhd and i didn't miss a sentences (which is so rare). Thank you!

[@julieannmaloney7187]

I’m new and I love you guys!!!❤

[@somemusic4015]

You guys are F-ing fantastic!

[@brainfood2399]

Thank you, very insightful!

[@MHK88m]

Thank you for this beautiful sharing and insight. I find is so inspiring to hear both of you. I have and am dealing with internal shame and guilt. I am learning the difference between shame and guilt has helped me identify within myself what is the root cause. It is really difficult and a beautiful challenge to embrace and work with these parts of myself. I see how it has affected so many people and keep them stuck. I am working on liberating myself and hopefully being able to help others. Thank you 🙏

[@LisaSmith-yb2uz]

Such a wonderful and inspirational conversation ❤☺️👍

[@mpramd]

love love love this epss

[@initnotofit]

I am totally relating to your wife. I'd love to hear her story more. I am very, very shame prone too and just beginning a deep dive into shame. Her experience sounds very intriguing. Following. Thanks for this podcast.

[@leahb.mathis5727]

SUCH AN AWESOME VIDEOOOOO!!!

[@annamaria9899]

So insightfull, thank you 🤍

[@dragon6414]

Thanks!

[@sunnyadams5842]

I just love you guys!! I want a " Does corn Suffer" mug!!

[@suegr98]

Thank you for this episode. I have shared it twice because I think it is so important.

[@suegr98]

Make that 3 times!

[@madeleinepiana]

Sou do Brasil e aprecio muito os conteúdos apresentados, bem como , a forma respeitosa, autêntica, amorosa e generosa com as quais abordam as temáticas . Parabéns! ❤

[@aleenr4425]

You guys are so genuine, thank you for everything you do! ❤

[@melusine826]

Seems like shame is the shadow of fawn at part of the 4Fs, survival and avoiding social ostracism

[@oglingling]

I can see the family resemblance!

[@jmanoochx]

This and your other videos is spectacular content. Very helpful. Wise, caring, funny, cautious, disciplined, fun, humble. Amazing. So good.

[@angelamossucco2190]

Healing is in community.

[@leorashirley1769]

It would be nice if your summary included people, concepts, books you reference. For instance in this video you referenced Erickson stages of development rooted in psychoanalytic theory the second stage is shame or autonomy, and Carl Rogers one of his seminal books entitled becoming a person.

[@Lebensbaustein]

I really like this podcast with Dr Hanson and his clone.

[@Peace.Beyond.All.Understanding]

It’s like every video you’re uploading applies strongly to my current life, thank you so much and keep up the amazing work! Youre helping many lives

[@MsBabybru]

Well done for explaining this topic in such detail and how once again awareness of our ingrained thought process need to be challenged continually…. Thank you for all the hard work your dad and you do with bringing all these topics to a large audience so people now have more of a knowledge

[@gymnasticlife1788]

Still listening but is there a section that speaks directly to when others have placed these impossible standards on us that brings about unnecessary shame 😔

[@storyofzero]

That is what I am trying to heal these days. The freeze response around addressing this is so high. Challenging these core issues make me feel like I am a horrible person undeserving to exist. So grateful for this channel- these two help me keep perspective during painful, very challenging inner work.

[@meltingzero3853]

Thank you for making this podcast. There is an aspect of shame that I didn't hear covered in this video, so I hope maybe you can cover it in one of your future episodes or point me to an episode where you discussed something like this. What if I know there's not a good reason for my shame, but I still can't turn it off? I find myself feeling ashamed about trying to not be ashamed, or trying to self-arbit in any way. I find myself not feeling any better even when I tell people about what I feel bad about and they reassure me that it's a totally normal thing, or that I didn't act bad, or that that guy was just a jerk. I don't want those thoughts, I disagree with them, I can find reasons against them, and they still overpower me, and nothing I've tried to defuse this shame seems to have ultimately worked. I am trying to find content on KZbin of people who shed light on this corner of the topic of shame. Maybe you and your father have some thoughts on this, would be greatly appreciated.

[@gesundheitfuerempathen]

Thank you very much for bringing up the topic of shame and guilt. You have talked about the shame which is felt by victims of sexual abuse (or abuse in other ways), and I really would like to know more about why this happens and how victims of abuse can deal with that, especially when this abuse happened for years and destroyed their healthy identity. Or is it possible to heal at al? Thanks

[@Aqua_the_meek]

About the being molested shame if we would take a less biological/psychological only approach and factor in desire pleasure and will as faculties of soul one could argue from a internal contradiction between feeling good about something bad in which shame could turn to mourning/ grief for said unfortunate event, but also keeping in mind how that affects you and instead of only working toward normalizing and numbing the sensitivity in order it doesn't go off we can restore ourselves in a more humanizing and wholesome way by validating both sides of the internal contradictions and weaving them together with meaning

[@chrisharris6462]

Society and relationships need integrity to function. Accountability guides that integrity. Shame is the internal compass to integrity. Otherwise our men become weak and our women become brats. Shameful state of affairs we live in today

[@BodilWandt]

Interesting and useful in many ways. But also interesting what didn't come up in the whole hour is the shame of others treating you badly and the shame coming from when you treat your self badly or when your doing things that is not good for you. Both very valuable shames as signals of something not being good, this can be extra intense when it's about sex. When you talk about sex and only have the aim to not be ashamed about sex and not bring this very functional shame, brings the risk to normalise eroticising power differences. But I guess two men wouldn't bring this up as easily as a feminist woman. Or other social shaming due to power differences against for instance women or black people.

[@sunnyadams5842]

I just finished listening to Heidi Pieibe's "Toxic Shame: What it is and How to...." video right before this one, and it addresses many of the issues you'd like more of. Cheers

[@BodilWandt]

@@sunnyadams5842 I don't understand your comment. Do you mean that what I stand for in my comment is toxic shame? Or do you agree with me that there are more nuances needed in talking about ways of treating each other? Could you please share the link to what you listened to about 'toxic shame'? Then I can hello you see if and how it differs from what I write about.

[@sunnyadams5842]

@@BodilWandt am I walking into a WOKE thing here?

[@BodilWandt]

@@sunnyadams5842I don't understand why you commented on my comment if you don't want to communicate. Share the video or not I don't mind either way. I guess you would rather tell your self that I'm "pc" and not "woke", if you're looking for a way to disconnect instead of communicating..

[@alurainspires1432]

You’re truly appreciated This hit hard but needed to be heard

[@rsh793]

That mug - everyone poops - is needed by every therapist across the whole world to use during their first or second session with a client! Is it not just the bestest thing in the world when someone realises that they aren't the "only one" who's had those thoughts! :)

[@attheranch873]

Ahhh…..thank you! I finally got the answer to the shame caused by my child abuse. I grew up in domestic violence, I was not wanted, and I took that to mean that I was bad. It’s an underlying theme, but it occurred to me while listening to this that being unwanted is neutral, he didn’t want me for his own reasons, which actually had nothing to do with me as a person. Overall, I was a pretty good kid, so I couldn’t understand why I felt like I was bad. Now I know. I don’t know if that makes sense to anybody else, but it seems like such a fine distinction, but it’s an important one. Unwanted and bad or two entirely different things😀

[@user-pb7ee4tk3q]

YOU WANT YOU! GOD WANTS YOU!❤

[@johnrainsman6650]

Hey, well try me. I was once taken to my boss's office--with her and her chef colleague--for touching my coworkers too much ( *_casually,_* on arms or shoulders). I was always very outgoing and tactile at work. The chef told me that we need the workers to be comfortable in a good work environment. That I shouldn't talk about anything other than work and school or tell my stories, because they may be inappropriate or upsetting (can't remember her exact words) to others. Now yeah, I pretty much didn't have a filter, but I don't think I said anything *_horrible._* I only meant to have fun with my crew. I really didn't get specific information from the chef about subjects and references. She likes that I'm outgoing, but she made it sound risky and in need of limits. And again, that I shouldn't touch anyone without consent. I own my mistakes at work, but I don't want anyone twisting it around into I'm making the chef the only bad guy. I didn't _mean_ any harm or discomfort. If I had known anyone would feel either, (though technically no one showed signs), I would _not_ have touched them. I am not a creep. But the chef made me feel like one. See, she shouldn’t have been so firm and in my face. A gentle, respectful talk for a couple minutes was all I needed. She shouldn’t have restricted me to handshakes only. Casual taps or pats or whatever are actually ok, as long as you don’t overdo them and it’s to friendly people who clearly enjoy you. I always thought it was perfectly innocent and natural, and I still do, in certain ways. Happens a lot at the bar parties I go to-total strangers. Besides, two middle-aged workers from the dining department have done it to me; I don’t condemn it. Also, the chef did not have to ask my boss if there was anything she wanted to add. How did she think that would make me feel? Not disrespected and like a criminal? HeII, my boss shouldn’t have been in the room at all; I deserved some dignity and comfort. I felt horrible. But of course, whenever I expressed this side on other videos, people would continue faulting me or saying the chef was right. To them, it was this side over the other. I felt like no one understood me or the gray areas I still think exist.

[@sallyjrwjrw6766]

Shame is how my parents and then my (ex) husband would manipulate me to action. Now, I use shame to accomplish things after procrastinating.

[@moviewizard471]

Hands down best video I've seen on this topic. All-encompassing but very specific. Thank you!

[@dorishaus400]

I loved this podcast, dealing with this as the youngest of 10 kids. I’m looking at my stories and beliefs. AND I would buy a mug with a Rickism on it!! Or a t-shirt… does corn suffer? Thanks for always taking on the hard topics!! Letting go of the shame I’ve had since childhood!! 😇❤️🤙🏼

[@TheVonWeasel]

Pride is not the antidote to shame. It is its source. True humility is the only antidote to shame. - Uncle Iroh

[@superlasse2468]

I think compassion is the antidote to shame.

[@jamieanderson5991]

thank you so much for all you both do!

[@sophiareed8266]

How does shame prevent an individual's exile from a group?

[@superlasse2468]

If they do what they think the other people think they want them to do, they won't be abandoned. Having a feeling of "maybe I shouldn't do that" helps them to know what not to do to avoid that abandonment.

[@jenjen2744]

Who is benefited by you carrying around these stories! 🎯

[@tammiebarfield7171]

😊😊

[@markartist8646]

Awesome content! Helping me deal with my own shame! Thank you! Forrest, you have a great Dad! Ideal parent!

[@shireendamghani2657]

This was an amazing show topic! I’d love to hear more about cultural/identityand tied in with sexuality Shame. I feel so lucky to have found you! I deeply related to the exile from a group and as you touched on jr high school stuff.

[@annalynn9325]

Interesting riff on shame but the work of Sheila Rubin, Bret Lyon, and others seems more grounded and useful, without ever poking at religious people, or conservative people, or resorting to moral relativism. I mean if an 11 year old boy has sexual feelings for his friend’s little sister, shame over his feelings would be a pro-social response, and not a bad thing at all, even if it is in response to some ‘external authority.’

[@meltingzero3853]

Can you list a couple of more names of people, KZbin channels, or books that you can recommend? I am looking for information on chronic shame, I'll also check out the two names you've said.

[@annalynn9325]

@@meltingzero3853 The Ethics of Beauty, author has a Greek last name I don’t remember, think it starts with P

[@shahilagh]

The category you say it is interesting it isn’t it is painful your choice of word shows a lot about you . Be sensitive . Please.

[@leorashirley1769]

I disagree, too many deluded self righteous people today will out of righteous indignation seek to and take actions to economically and socially destroy people who don't agree with them. It would seem they only care about being vindictive, eliminating a perceived existential threat, without care of how that might harm anyone else, dependants, loved ones, etc.. And, bullies have been literally shaming people to death on social media. No, I definitely disagree Shaming and Shame is deadly.

[@saramichael3837]

This is a disappointing episode I have to say. You can host Elizabeth your partner on this topic or any expert on Trauma or abandonment depression. Maybe you were not aiming at chronic shame which deserves a whole separate episode.

[@carrie5980]

3:00 "... and helping 'Betas,' if you will..." I won't. Do better.

[@wendy8880]

Scattered show. Not up to your usual standard.

[@i-m8249]

Thanks!