NBA 2K16 Review

[@jode9827]

The only sports game that makes significant changes year in and year out.

[@RunRobbenRun]

+Joey Zoll PES >>> ~RRR

[@Fizzsama]

+Run Robben Run #FucKonami

[@easybreexy]

+Phil Mitchell lmao

[@brandonbennett2173]

Lol what significant changes other than one game mode being my league... I'm a yearly sports game buyer and none of them really make significant changes. Nba live has made significant changes this year but that's only cause it was so bad last year it can't go anywhere but up. Also madden 16 actually has improved a lot with their new controls and so many new fancy catch and break tackle animations it has improved a lot more than this too.

[@easybreexy]

Brandon Bennett My career and im talking about after the story... mycourt.. body and shoe scanning... tattoo customization. ... pro am..... customization of arenas in majority of modes.... new parks....increased defensive AI... new control's. .... player celebrations...... play now online.....

[@Trilogy-]

And now we wait for IGN to slaughter EA'S "NBA: LIVE"

[@AntPurpp]

+Michael Jones (Beast of Brooklyn) yes it does have you seen the game

[@juu9256]

+Troy Smith lmao exactly

[@dballz1016]

+Michael Jones (Beast of Brooklyn) Sure it does, game sucks.

[@stellarhyme3]

+Michael Jones (Beast of Brooklyn) Yeah it does, he's saying the developers did it to themselves by creating another subpar basket ball sim.

[@jobin140]

+Michael Jones (Beast of Brooklyn) haha what?

[@GeddensGC]

you guys know this company used to make the best football game... imagine this level of detail and depth in your football game. ea is just milking the NFL...

[@ezziieebby9163]

Football isn't NFL . It's Fifa lol .

[@MrMetalbandit]

+Ezziiee Bby' football in the USA means the NFL sport.

[@apexpreditor241]

+Ezziiee Bby' football means any sport played on a rectangular field which means NFL can be called football

[@saquonbarkleybeezy26hunnit32]

+Ezziiee Bby' dipshit

[@joel8001]

nah Madden always own that crap NFL 2K

[@NoName-ur4vf]

Just got this game back for my ps5 in disk edition. Everything is amazing about it, the graphics, the soundtrack, the gameplay. This game and 2k11 are the goat basketball games.

[@danielharyanto6713]

😊f.😊😅😅😊😮9

[@KingTBone]

🙏🏻Amen

[@pvrplefrank1155]

Man 2k11 changed everything imo thats what blew up the franchise when they put jordan on that mf

[@trungasi]

Honestly Mycareer story is lame. I mean it says "Your Story" then forces us to be called Freq, Forces us to be black, forces us to be from Harlem and be a hs phenom straight up.2k16 still the best sports game out here but they need let you have more freedom

[@atallahaikal1707]

you godamn right buddy

[@tkchamp21]

real shit

[@dingo6474]

what will your story be? apparently, the same as everyone else's

[@atallahaikal1707]

+Dingo 2k doesnt give a shit about us bro

[@Suisai13]

+Anthony Oo LOL, it doesn't force you to be black. Just your family and friends. Not sure if they explain how that all went down in the story tho. Maybe Woody Allen does the story next year?

[@tdoggydonnelly7610]

Why were my parents always black if I'm not. My parents are lying to me

[@jode9827]

+Tdoggy Donnelly Blame Spike Lee

[@MaZE172]

+Tdoggy Donnelly LMFAO!!!!

[@kaduroy12]

+Really Dude you made my day

[@TrinidadSuperman]

+Tdoggy Donnelly adoption...

[@Pyromaniac963]

+GAME iN you have a twin sister who's black.

[@hbizzle8037]

I just wish the story gave you more control over the narrative and let you choose rather or not you want to go pro and give the option to wanted to be friends with Vic .. Rest in Power Vic & Dirtbike Danny

[@ninobrownie29]

+Hamilton Nelms Rest in Power Bo$$-Key-Yacht!! and its donnie not danny lol!!

[@hbizzle8037]

+ninobrownie29 lol damn you right I got his tombstone wrong smh

[@syzygy_xv]

+ninobrownie29 Bo$$-Key-Yacht$ got dem bars

[@ninobrownie29]

+Danish Sudan dammit lol you got me!! and yeah the world will never know what the mixtape sound like

[@Suisai13]

+Hamilton Nelms Does it choose your nickname for you? I got to be a Freq???

[@amirtheysaid]

Still the best 2K of all-time

[@CoinOpTV]

word up - Spike Lee should be embarrassed but everything else is fun!

[@spazpsg1]

+CoinOpTV It might of been a budget thing more than purely spike lee but I still reckon some choices wouldn't be that hard too implement.

[@burstpanther6352]

+Brian Scalabrine They could of at least mentioned you're adopted or some jazz, being white/asian with a black twin is just unrealistic!

[@spazpsg1]

^ agreed way too much hype for below average story

[@kenshovenir5097]

ok

[@soapyguy6483]

ok

[@Delvertpunk]

confirmed free on June PS plus

[@gamerfan81]

got it

[@theblackhokage]

Server stability? Ugh how much did 2K pay you Mr. Mike Mitchell & IGN? There's no way he played this game online if he's claiming not only is it stable, but the most stable in the series. Lies, lies and more lies!

[@swish1005]

The thing is- I hate the defense this year. Every player is suddenly Scotty Pippen. There's no reason delly from the cavs is blocking Kobe's dunk on a fast break. "You HAVE to run plays this year" ok that's about as fun as GTA saying you HAVE to put gas in your car this year

[@jramirezmontoya]

Also seems like the player reaction is delayed from the controller if you know what I mean.

[@saquonbarkleybeezy26hunnit32]

oh man this is the best 2k game of all time can't wait for the live review i wanna see all the live fans rage once their game gets like a 6.9

[@TheJoker-go6rm]

+Odell Beckham Jr. Ew no

[@sector910ify]

lol

[@ZackFlairr]

+The Joker i agree it would if my career was good but it was shit

[@supremeaxiom]

+JJrock 123 mann y'all tripping my career is great..the casting and acting is wayy better than previous years..the story mode could have given you more options but for what it was its enjoyable..ppl always got to find something to complain about..smh

[@SHADOWMICMAL]

+Odell Beckham Jr. 6.9 is too high. It should be rated as 5. Only Pro Am mode makes the game Interesting.

[@bcbk20]

0:30 "NBA 2k16 is a great representation of the sport of basketball" - Proceeds to dribble down the court with absolutely no defense for the easiest score ever

[@cjsantos9621]

Im still playing this game in 2020. Best 2k ever

[@therhythmdivision6674]

Hi sir Santos, can you play this game offline with 2 players in 1 team?

[@cjsantos9621]

Yes, you can definitely play this game offline, in fact, the servers are already down. Im not sure if you can play in the same team maybe in blacktop you can but in the exhibition game Im not so sure.

[@therhythmdivision6674]

@@cjsantos9621, ai...will see. Thnx for your quick reply! If you are able to check it for sure, it would be great.

[@2kgamer2024]

Just got this game back

[@franny24mangi]

NBA 2K13 is still one of the best recent NBA 2K titles. Even though it wasn't that much of a simulator, it was a pick-up-and-play game for casual gamers and I spent countless hours on that game too.

[@franny24mangi]

John Anderson As being most recent it's 2K13, but as of this generation of the early to mid 2010's 2K11 takes the cake.

[@AlvinTiburcio]

Idc 2k always had the best replay value. You can play this everyday of the year and u wont get bored.

[@homiesliveforever2329]

W

[@JeReL19]

Idk why ppl care about MyCareer modes. I can spend hours in gm and play regular seasons.

[@Plague_Doc22]

+JRL I agree. People just try to score unrealistic numbers in my career. Where as in my GM you can really build a team from the base and up.

[@tg2112]

Wts d GM mode ??? Nevr playd in 2k12 or 2k14 !!

[@ErikHansenDrums]

Agreed, MrCareer is subpar. I really enjoy MyTeam personally.

[@TheYoungn231]

Me either lol I love playing MyLeague especially since you can create teams now I just created three college teams

[@ralloblacc6984]

+TheYoungn231 people play it because who wouldn't want to be a nba superstar hitting posterizers and buzzer beaters with the latest nikes on thats why we play games to be what we can't

[@oldnbaschool]

Guys, I just hate one thing in this game. It's substition...faq that. Anyone understand how to sub in one player?

[@GugaGDFABC]

Yeah, I still don't get why would they change something that worked out so well in the last couple of years.

[@oldnbaschool]

***** yeah man...it took time to get used, but still sometimes struggle with that.

[@knxghtray5617]

+oldnbaschool they changed it for speed, but it takes time to get used to. Also using the right stick will allow only you to know what you pressed.

[@DynamicUnreal]

+Knxght [H4RD] Problem with the sticks is they are not as responsive as the D-Pad... Even calling plays I find myself having to flick the sticks multiple times before it registers.

[@OldPervertedHerbert]

.

[@veronicalee2914]

Why does this game have a higher score than Dragon Age Inquisition. I know it's from a different reviewer and the games are from completely different genres. But it's just stupid you can't spell ignorant without IGN. -Comment Section

[@metroidsuperfan17]

well this is probably the best sports game of this generation sooo

[@veronicalee2914]

I'm not saying it's bad I'm making fun of the people who complain about the scores ign gives out.

[@veronicalee2914]

I'm making fun of the people who complain about the scores ign gives out.

[@mattmason7321]

+Raymond Felton People, read the comment closer, look how it is signed...it's a joke making fun of commenters.

[@metroidsuperfan17]

Raymond Felton Sorry about that

[@Ionic0]

i just saw dashiexp play this today and it was glitchy as hell.

[@Openthemeyes]

ikr

[@Insaniac969]

IM SKATING! lmao

[@KjvakWolf]

YUP

[@noct4862]

If you actually played it for yourself you'd know that it's not that glitchy.

[@Tannerp24]

I think he was on pc its ass on pic atm

[@evo555666]

The thing I found funny about the career mode is that it assumes you are going to make a black character because all your family are black on there so it was funny when I made a white character

[@timm_3r]

You just complimented the AI's defense when 0:32 happens.

[@Carlisho]

"AI Defense improved" 0:31 - 0:35 Well done 2k Good Job IGN 👏👏👏

[@BluntAnims]

Not a fan of sports games, never have been, never will be. Although, It's plainly obvious that this game is massively better then any other Basketball games I've seen before, The sweat running off the bodies looks almost real, the movement of the characters is believable, and the game play seems much more realistic before, with tactics that would be used in a real game, as opposed to cheating the game engine into doing impossible things to shoot hoops. It actually, makes me want to play this game, and that's saying something.

[@Demoniiiic]

So you don't want to talk about the shit servers. Ok. You can't review this game without talking about the damn servers

[@atallahaikal1707]

the server improve a lot. no more laggy crossover! i can approve!

[@Plague_Doc22]

+Demoniiiic The games been out for what..close to a week now. VERY few games nowadays have good online early on. Because they dont want to pay for the extra servers so shit becomes laggy and overloaded with people. they then pay for extra servers to meet the demand.

[@Suisai13]

+Demoniiiic They do that every year. Gloss over the fact that, Oh by the way, sometimes you can't even play the damn game! They need to review this game like three times over the first couple months or something.

[@Suisai13]

People are really excited cuz the servers have been good for half a week, lol. Wait for it...

[@kuruptzZz]

+J'son Cox not once have I had any problems being able to play online, so I don't know what you're talking about

[@cockroachafro]

WARNING: this game has built in micro payments in that you cannot do ANYTHING without "virtual currency" and the "VC"is extremely slow and hard to accrue to encourage you to buy the "VC" Quite telling that IGN didn't even mention this.

[@johnophotography]

A lot of games are becoming that way. It's like you purchase the game for full retail and if you want to purchase items faster, then they will want you to pay or you can earn coins by playing games in NBA 2k16. It seems fair.

[@cxnical3001]

I don't know what you're talking about I get 1500 Vic a game plus the endorsements

[@313br3akd0wn]

+Chrishardy01 agreed. Stop bitching & get some practice in, I'm an 84 with no extra VC

[@MrSiloterio]

2K16 is revelation for sports video games. At least for me, the amount of work put out to elevate the drama, tension, mentality and court culture is so deserving of an award in and of itself. What matters most in an a NBA game is not the modes mind you. At the end of the day, it's the on-court experience that defines basketball. That alone makes 2K16 the best basketball game I've ever played. The A.I., the player physicality, the foot planting tech, the on-the-fly strategy adjustements, these are just the obvious things which stood out to me from the get-go. Taking into consideration the awesome soundtrack, well-acted story in career mode, and the plethora of options in customizations, man, 2015 is one freakin year for video games.

[@MarquisSmith]

I'm British - you have Spike Lee, we have hot tea - and know next to nothing about basketball. This still worth a download? I know it's free, but the same cannot be said of hard drive space. Is this fairly accessible for newcomers, even with it's sim aspects?

[@MarcellPlazOn]

yes its awesome you should try it.

[@MarquisSmith]

Thank you. I'll give it a whirl, see how I get on. Not played a b-ball game since NBA Jam on the Super Nintendo!

[@MarcellPlazOn]

Alright good luck!

[@4dualshock]

i too know nothing at all about basketball are there in game tutorials to teach us the rules and tactics or we gotta figure out everything?

[@MarcellPlazOn]

There are tutorials for everything once you've mastered that you can go online or do mycarrer

[@jonathanw706]

0:17 LADIES AND GENTLEMEN IGN HAS FOUND THE 2K CAMERA!!!

[@Dontdoittoyoself]

4:27 best part of this video

[@JayHQ]

commentary stops in the middle of the game and the others how to fix plz

[@itsyaboifredo5011]

Who else think the graphics here are like nba 2k21 next gem

[@Reed00]

This 2K is actually worth buying... 2K be stepping it up

[@teamhebi13]

better than getting that tony hawk bs

[@TheGreenGobshite]

+teamhebi13 Not for someone who prefers skating over basketball -_-

[@droy3642]

+PublicEnemy-1 Ikr

[@jaboonpalmer4322]

+PublicEnemy-1 no the game is just broken

[@TheGreenGobshite]

Jaboon Palmer Has been working fine for me.

[@jaboonpalmer4322]

***** look at the reviews

[@Greatgamboa]

What about the HUGE issue in which online opponents can possibly pick the same color uniform due to now choosing your team before entering a match lobby!! Thats horrible!

[@CanucksGameVlogger]

8/10 too many 3 pointers

[@ItzDalv0]

Always been a 2k fan but it's 2015 how do you not have leaderboards for online play with the ability too compare your record with your friends and top 100

[@ubermensch826]

lmao "it never felt like my story"

[@Darkcloud1983]

I loved the story mode bro idk what he was talking about

[@manwiththeplan9903]

Only the cpu defense is improved this year :( you teammates defense still sucks. Lebron who is one of the best defenders keep leaving his man open and sagging off him even if after i go to defensive settings and set it for him to smother and deny his man. They need to patch it.

[@1XXDRUGSCANSUCKITXX2]

And sometimes it sucks you into another guy and forces you to guard him

[@tofo7151]

+vendy hyppolite you need to adjust sliders for your team

[@DaFuture14]

+vendy hyppolite lol at LeBron being one of the best defenders. Dude hasn't played defense since 2012, so 2k definitely has a realistic depiction there.

[@JrocDaBx]

+Ezziiee Bby' you have a thing for black guys I can tell

[@manwiththeplan9903]

+Jerico Gantuangco im talking about myteam mode. How do you adjust the sliders. Idk if u can.

[@kajirons7751]

Nba 2k16 brings everything back memories in the history of 2k

[@senhor_alex]

whats the song in this review ???

[@omnia9502]

Waited so anxiously for a broken game the whole time on offense I keep getting stuck in pointless animations and on defense my teammates don't help at all the computer always finds a way to get an open look

[@taherhuzefa6790]

Here because playstation plus

[@DreBourbeau]

I'm delighted this game fixed so many problems the series had. You actually have to run plays now? Awesome. The online finally works? Even better! I might have to pick this up at some point.

[@drza2k]

what is that song that's playing at the begining?

[@histugaya123]

foreal man i just asked the same question the beat is fire

[@chrisMatiC413]

+Andre Lewis hah, yeah im trying to find out too. its definitely not on the 2K16 soundtrack. amazing beat.

[@mauricefromyt]

NBA 2k 16 was the greatest 2k basketball game of all time

[@notsobigboi]

ps plus anyone?

[@hmjgrawy1]

yep

[@georgebennett5206]

Why I'm here

[@anthonyfuschetto5645]

yes

[@nbk3132]

One of the best score that ign gives to nba 2k series

[@realifeHD]

The gameplay is extremely disappointing.Although 2k introduced new concepts like shot contests, going straight up, timing, etc, it negates those innovative additions with there forever 2k cheese. NO ONE CAN ESCAPE THE CHEESE!!! 1. Although they put the option of going straight up to contest a shot( which for casual basketball fans wouldn't know, is not a foul), 50% of the time the player still commits the foul which negates even having the new option. 2. With each patch the game gets less playable. For some sad reason, with each new update the game gets worse... Kinda counter productive, don't you think? 3. The passing animations are completely unrealistic and are nothing relevant to basketball and constantly defer from common laws of physics. 4. ETC this game is trash

[@johnbrick9422]

MVP GREEN no

[@apolloskywalker633]

2K said Curry in real life is better then his in game avatar, so his hold playstyle being reworked in 2k17 thus making him one of the most lethal video game basketball player ever.

[@mohammedalgthamy9563]

ps plus ppl

[@Guzz843]

yes

[@surlyandroid]

What about the technical aspects of the game. I'm sure it runs great on ps4 and xbox one but how are the servers? Do the last gen versions run at 20 fps? Is the pc version super buggy? I wish these things were addressed in reviews more often.

[@emilianobravo2516]

Way better than NBA Live 16

[@getalifetoday1]

What's the major difference? I forgot.

[@ShyShy3210]

+getalifetoday1 2k is actually good. live put in 0 work

[@cpx-1998]

+getalifetoday1 NBA Live is absolute trash

[@getalifetoday1]

five october I've played NBA live 06(PC version) like 10 years ago. I also have played NBA 2k8. I just haven't played it in a long time. I can't remember the major difference between NBA 2k and NBA live.

[@Brazillianboi69]

+getalifetoday1 everything lol

[@thatoneletsplayerchildress2331]

The ps3 version weirdly enough allows you to be yourself. There is no documentary type movie flare to it but it is impressive.

[@mr.mcneill7306]

My career sucks this year but still it's a good game

[@reslus]

Honestly, the best review on the game. Well done. Give this man a raise.

[@MrBarbec]

Fck ign what do you guys think about this game?

[@shinayanami]

too much balls and baskets

[@naru3k]

Amazing

[@alizeeny]

I tried it and I like it so much!

[@ShyShy3210]

too many shoes 2/10

[@supremeaxiom]

I'm addicted to my career lol..the game is a masterpiece in my opinion.

[@KuggeR23]

I don't have 2k16 yet. I just wanna ask can I choose college teams on quick game?

[@kid20777]

yuss finally ill have this game :)

[@runilwazlib]

IKR xD,i came here for ps plus lol

[@xelar2146]

+Gamer Jajaj Same😂

[@MarshallMathers-wz2lt]

Got the game from ps plus

[@drewraper9059]

Good review I have the same thoughts on this but I love all the other game modes so much I'd keep it at a 10/10

[@Zetler]

To bad they can't do NFL games anymore. Screw you EA!

[@NINTHCITYDESIGN]

still need a Lil more work. still have a pause when the players walks or run. need more frames per second.

[@eminemfan12367]

Ps pluuuuuuussssss!

[@nickpainter5724]

I'm trying to figure how to play as past NBA characters. Do I buy them? Unlock them? And once I do, can I play with them in MyLeague?

[@nickpainter5724]

Players, I mean.

[@Ma1q444]

Most overrated 2k to date

[@flyxwon]

Got an idea that you tried playing park and got stuck at pro 2

[@waimin323]

2:25 pick and pop with Omer asik?? I don't think so

[@eastjoker94]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@johnnyavina6141]

I always wanted to get into basketball I love soccer should I get this or 15?

[@ca20mn]

This for sure 15 is more arcade this is simulation

[@DeezoNato2k]

+Johnyboy Avina nobody will be playing 15 because it has too many unfair problems but in 16 they fixed a lot of multiplayer OPness so 16 is ur game and has more features and more fun to play with friends

[@jonathanw706]

+X Lᴇɢᴇɴᴅ no that's NBA live

[@ca20mn]

+X Lᴇɢᴇɴᴅ never

[@ca20mn]

+X Lᴇɢᴇɴᴅ arcade is fun for a day simulation is always fub

[@Talented34tv]

I only play 2k for the mycareer/my player modes, so for the guys who's played it,is it actually straight or not that good ?

[@trentf4891]

why did they change the net physics from 2k15? The net looks absolutely ridiculous now.

[@chrisMatiC413]

info on that background instrumental playing at the beginning of this segment? PLEASE. ...its not on the 2K16 soundtrack either

[@deang.5636]

Is this game still worth getting? Since it's been out so long

[@swannshady5713]

Good to know this game worked for someone, 2 different copies and multiple re installations, I resorted to selling my copy and buying a copy of 2k15 on ebay because I every time I went to play a second game in a row, my PS4 would freeze, I guess there's always next year.

[@XxUnraveledGamerxX]

How does this game get a 9.0? It's the same every year

[@MylotheZooLovingScientist]

Jeez, the more realistic they try and make MyCareer, the more and more contrived it gets.

[@hbk92701]

Does Lebron get tired in the 4th like in real life? Is DRose back in a suit?

[@ninjanartatoes]

+NascarFanMel141820 wrong it was just a face injury he should still play the whole season

[@iamck_]

Well said on MyCareer...not necessarily "My" Career anymore but it still is very impressive! Great review!

[@noalarmsplease5872]

Can someone explain to me why they made a story mode in a video game that forbids you from participating??

[@anironfistedwarrior7206]

Is this game so much more improved in terms of gameplay from 2k15? I thought 2k15 was amazing... Thinking of purchasing this...

[@timothyarbinata1023]

i like NBA 2k15 controllers and graphics more But for the gameplay 2k16 is better

[@anironfistedwarrior7206]

Timmy Ar How so? Could u get into details please? Thnx

[@anironfistedwarrior7206]

Timmy Ar appreciate it

[@tmanmatt213]

Don't even address the god awful multiplayer servers. Defending is near-impossible, the shot bar doesn't fill up, passes are seconds late, and it's even hard to move with the incredible input lag. It's a good game, but they should definitively fix the servers before I even attempt at playing online.

[@Bale4Bond]

In my opinion the best NBA 2K-game since 2K11

[@1manDestiny]

Is NCAA in the game too?

[@DancyHercules3]

This is the best 2K since 2k11. The most realistic 2K by far (basketball wise). I hope they wont ruin it by patching and makes shooting easier like 2k15 just for the casual "basketball" fans that are mad because they dont play real basketball and keeps popping 3s here and there and expect it to go in everytime

[@MalakiMask]

Sometimes the ball will Completely go through players legs hands and bodies

[@PillzBerry27]

Great review what is the music from?

[@JesusRivera-zi7nc]

I hope the Base God blessed the cookin' dance to be inside the game.

[@khoa-nguyenvan4639]

I've noticed this year the jerseys aren't free floaty like previous years. which I like. that's one thing that made me get this game cause lebron James in real life his jersey is stuck to him.

[@igameugame9378]

Should I buy nba 2k 15? It's $11.99 at my local GameStop or should I just save up for nba 2k 16?

[@rudedawg4207]

if you have last gen then get 2k15. if you have current gen save up

[@danty362]

Unless you've got a 360 or PS3, in which case you get literally the exact same game as 2k15 with new rosters.

[@Gamerexploiter]

Should I buy this? I'm on PC.

[@cantona222]

What happened at the end when he said "for all things NBA". it seemed off.

[@kalecaelum6601]

It’s 2021, still the best nba 2k game next to 2k11.💯

[@Go_Kian]

Can you play my career offline ? I'm getting a PS4 so i was just wondering

[@PhillipG34]

ok I saw UCONN vs UCLA. is there a college game mode?

[@Honduran]

Bought this game last month for 30 bucks on Amazon. Yeah, I was late for the party... But dammit it was one of the best things I spent my dollar on in a very long time.. Thanks for the review!

[@jbw503619]

Must say that the servers have improved drastically this year. Bravo 2K, bravo.

[@DarkSektori]

Not a fan of the story mode but I commend the effort to offer something unique to the player. That's not to say that it's a bad idea, with trial and error there is no reason to dismiss it's future potential.

[@cpx-1998]

I like the new cpu defense but it just gives the players another reason to shoot 30 3's per game

[@Suisai13]

Maybe you should do some more reviews in the upcoming weeks/months so you can add how the servers are repeatedly down and some game modes and features intermittently don't work! Might wait until the trade deadline for this one, where at least most of the bugs have been patched by then.