Ignostic One and J.L. Warren (Igtheists/Ignostics) Battle Based (Christian Debater) Over The Bible

[@Uryvichk]

Ten seconds in and the guy is marveling that a book specifically curated to have its component parts agree with itself agrees with itself (and truth be told, it actually doesn't agree with itself that well, but set that aside). That's like noticing the dictionary is in alphabetical order and thinking God must've done that miraculously, because how could it have happened by chance? I am gradually becoming convinced that internet theists have never read any fiction whatsoever. Just the most embarrassing dopey amazement at basic tropes and authorial tricks.

[@jettythesunfish]

Apparently, sloppy foreshadowing in the BIble to events within the Bible = prophecies

[@realBreakfasttacos]

That is a definite possibility.

[@zgs12212012]

Don’t Xtians realize that the NT was created by people who knew the OT? Why don’t they get that the stories in the NT are fan fiction? It’s weird. I mean really weird.

[@Uryvichk]

The author of Matthew didn't even get one of his scriptural references right (Matthew 27:9-10 quotes Zechariah but says it was Jeremiah). So not only is he writing fan fiction based on another text, he's doing it so sloppily that he got his prophets mixed up.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Who knows.

[@Josh17656]

Just reference the Simpsons, way more writers of the Bible over 30 years cross referencing over time. Demonstrates the silliness of this argument well.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!

[@jettythesunfish]

This just in! Foreshadowing in a book means actually true prophecies!

[@Uryvichk]

It isn't even foreshadowing. Psalm 22 is being directly quoted by Jesus because the author of the Gospel (and Jesus, maybe, if there was one) was familiar with Psalm 22 and wrote the details of the crucifixion story to specifically mimic that psalm. The correspondence is a direct contrivance by a later author. But even if it somehow weren't, there is no way anyone who didn't know anything about Christianity and is reading the Bible cover to cover would assume upon reading Psalm 22 that there is anything in it that indicates future historical events will conform to it, because it isn't a prophecy and isn't even written like one. It's a lamentation and praise poem like dozens of other psalms in the collection, most of which are not held out as Christian prophecy because they can't even squintingly be associated with Jesus. Anyone actually reviewing Psalms in context would assume it is just one poem among many speaking hyperbolically and metaphorically about how Yahweh can deliver his faithful from their troubles, no matter how serious. The best part is that the proper context and reading of Psalm 22 makes it much more interesting and rich than the hack job of the Gospel dweebs trying to make it into an actual event so they can "prove" their guy getting killed as a criminal was somehow actually the plan all along.

[@jettythesunfish]

@@Uryvichk So cruddy foreshadowing. I'm well aware of how the Bible does it's darnedest to pretend to "prophecy" Jesus. And even then, it's just a passage in a book "foretelling" a future event in a book. As you said, a complete contrivance.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!

[@alexritchie4586]

This is like saying an encyclopedia is divine because its index cross-references literally every single entry within it.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL Great point!

[@ianchisholm5756]

A character in one book quotes an earlier book. As the author of the later book never met the author of the first, this could only have come about through divine revelation. For the sake of argument, we will work on the assumption that Jewish people in the first century had no access to or knowledge of the Torah and Tanakh.

[@Uryvichk]

Noted people who did not know or care anything about their own cultural and religious history or have a historically higher-than-average literacy, the Hebrews.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

That is why I mentioned the internet.

[@Weirdaman]

The quality level of Bible's prophecies is... godlike. xD THERE WILL BE EARTHQUAKES! OH YEAH? NO SHIT!

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Sooo many completed prophecies!

[@SurgiusMaximus]

"God is true. My mom's a doctor" 🤣🤣🤣 Whoever said that, I love you

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL that was a pretty funny line

[@Uryvichk]

When Justin Martyr wrote his First Apology to the Roman Emperor Marcus Aurelius -- who almost certainly never even saw it because he had more important things to do and was a better philosopher than Justin -- he admitted that the fantastical stories about Jesus were "no different" in their content from the stories about the various sons of Zeus. His explanation for this similarity was that Satan knew Jesus was coming and made up pagan religions and stories to be similar in order to preemptively discredit Jesus. Of course, Justin didn't expect the Emperor to believe that HIS particular stories were for realsies, because unlike modern Christians he wasn't completely stupid. No, Justin believed there was proof in the imperial records from the reign of Tiberius; specifically, an "Acts of Pontius Pilate" which Justin believed was an actual report from Pontius Pilate confirming the existence and miraculous feats of Jesus. The book he referenced is not in the Bible (and may no longer even exist) -- though there is an extant Acts of Pontius Pilate which features such absurd events as all the Roman soldiers in Pilate's office being supernaturally compelled to bow to Jesus as he's brought in to face his charges -- and at any rate would not have been available in any imperial archive because all those works were Christian frauds even more ridiculous than the (entirely fictional) Acts that did end up in the Bible, because Pontius Pilate wrote no such report. But the point is Justin THOUGHT there was evidence of this and entreated Marcus Aurelius to read said evidence so that he would be able to distinguish the true stories about Jesus from the fake stories about Perseus. This is more effort than any modern Christian bothers with, because they know that no contemporary evidence of Jesus even existing has survived. Except actually all that the First Apology proves is that even educated Christians were dumb rubes from the very start of the faith who actually thought these miraculous proofs had been eyewitnessed... just, like, not by THEM, or by anyone they'd ever met who had any way to credibly prove that they'd actually seen any such things. There is literally not a single author in the Bible who claims to have been able to work miracles; at best you've got Paul arguing that the Holy Spirit transforms believers' lives and grants them vague superpowers like prophecy and tongues, but curiously Paul never really claims he has any specific abilities beyond being able to talk to Cloud Mufasa Jedi Ghost Christ, a guy whose historical life he appears to care nothing whatsoever about. A living God of power wouldn't leave a dead stack of paper as the sole artifact of his existence. If Christians actually had divine powers they'd be proving it constantly, like those wacky Pentecostals who actually handle venomous snakes because the fake extended ending of Mark says they won't die from being bitten. Which they do literally all the time, conveniently also demonstrating that there are people who will die for lies all the time because there's no way they still actually believe that after so many of them have been killed by strangely-still-effective snake venom.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

This is a very well thought out explanation here.

[@Bubblewench42]

Don't know why there are people still rejecting the naturalistic atheistic reality

[@realBreakfasttacos]

I need to figure out how sit down and edit for 4 hours at a time. I took time off and its like going to the gym, it's way harder to do it after stopping for a while lol. Hopefully new video today, I have lots of recorded content.

[@Bubblewench42]

@@realBreakfasttacos I have faith in you, pun intended, you'll work out what works best for you I appreciate what you do keep up the good work 😁

[@BrickGriff]

"You're saying 'observe' to mean measure with your eyes..." No... It's worse than that. He's saying "observe" meaning to be able to access information about the past (e.g. the age of the Earth). He wants there to be a "correct answer" that's somehow preserved in time so we can compare it with our "guess".

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!

[@peterwyetzner5276]

If he's talking about New Testament references of the Old Testament, then it isn't surprising that the authors of the first were very familiar with the second. In any case, the Hebrew Bible was a written text by the 1st century CE; and calling it a "book" doesn't mean it's a coherent text.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

That is a fair statement.

[@MartinMensch]

No, in Hebrew the terms used for the six days os creation are not better translated to 'time'. On the contrary, in Hebrew it says "it passed a morning, it passed a night, in the first day" and for each of the days it repeats specifically words for 12 hour periods of "day-light" and 12 hours of "nigthtime". Also, specifically, the shabath is one day BECAUSE In the seventh day God 'rested'. I studied in a yeshiva, before deconverting, and whenever a Christian says something completely wrong about the "Hebrew text" I cringe so much

[@realBreakfasttacos]

It happens a lot!

[@aosidh]

yikes, nobody tell him about the book of mormon

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL

[@CrowManyClouds]

@5:52 Revelation_s_ , yup he sure knows that Bible!

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL

[@Se7eN-SLAYER]

Stupid amount. Confirmed.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL

[@ghostpacas7600]

Why do you guys constantly allow theist to shift the burden of proof and have you answering questions to disprove something they believe ? Its ego. Things that don’t exist don’t leave evidence.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

It is fun to have conversations!

[@AdamEdn]

Wouldn’t he be obligated to also endorse paganism based on the timeframe and countless authors that have written Thor? Which ancillary religious text (Mishnah, Hadiths, the Summa etc.) is really competing with the Marvel Multiverse fr? 😂

[@ghostpacas7600]

J.L warren is so damn long winded and over explains and drags out his answers because his answers are so long.

[@phoenixrising4172]

YES, He Loves Hearing The Sound Of His Own Voice!!!

[@JLWarren]

@@phoenixrising4172I’m a voice actor. Of course I do.

[@phoenixrising4172]

@@JLWarren 🤩🤩🤩

[@realBreakfasttacos]

JL warren is always awesome though!