Shut Up, Marss.

[@lucinamain6861]

Marss basically says that ZSS is only top tier because everyone plays stupid

[@annthom5301]

No thats EXACTLY what he said, personally ZSS is my most hated character to play against, i can never win against her

[@mfrace04]

yea because she apparently doesn't have crazy mobility, invincible flip kick, good tech chase, etc.

[@mfrace04]

good hitboxes, amazing recovery...

[@lxvi2441]

Michael F his argument isn't that zss isn't a great character, the argument is that she isn't top tier and that people slightly overrate her

[@mfrace04]

@@lxvi2441 shes top-tier

[@haz9472]

why are mom and dad fighting

[@lancemiller9803]

LOLLLLL

[@Michael-cg5qn]

Which one is mom and which is dad

[@gsnenejagsne7445]

My dad flip kicked my mom and she died to boost kick at 90

[@OffDaSenzu]

Michael Hurtado pikachu is a guy or girl but ZSS is always a girl sooo

[@bassy9524]

sometimes it takes a girl to be a real man

[@doxazo5512]

Tl;dr Neutral: one of the best in the game Disadvantage: one of the best in the game Advantage: not as broken as other top tiers The relative weakness in advantage doesn’t matter as much because she’s happy to just reset and play neutral against you again.

[@imESAM]

Basically

[@danielrocha941]

Advantage: one of the best in the game at the ledge

[@nathanlevesque7812]

Ehhhhh, advantage is just as good, she's just a neutral based character--not a combo oriented one.

[@doxazo5512]

Nathan Levesque, combo characters have good advantage. ZSS is not a combo character, she’s a neutral character, and the tradeoff is a less good advantage

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@doxazo5512 An advantage state is not the same as 'currently comboing someone'. Fox also has a great advantage state, but like ZSS--most of his output is from strings. They both have the speed to catch people on reaction simply by being in the right position.

[@Diembee]

I’m loving the clash of tier list ideologies here, Marss is like “Oh, my main is actually really bad and overrated, I only get mileage because everyone is stupid” While Esam is like *”OKAY, PIKACHU IS THE MOST EPIC CHARACTER GUYS, BEST ARIALS, BEST NEUTRAL, TOP 1 IN THE GAME. LETS GO.”*

[@chrispo7610]

the funny part is that even with all the PIKA BUSTED shit, pika has never once been nerfed

[@pizzashark7067]

@@chrispo7610 Hey, remember when they buffed Pikachu's grab range?

[@3jayseedank]

Yoshi and Jiggly Have better Aerials -_-

[@spreadwuvokay]

@@3jayseedank Are you trying to say that Jigglypuff has better Aerials than Marss. Jigglypuff can't even approach with her aerials, and Yoshi's aerials are good but they aren't great like Zss

[@anormalhumanhopefully8570]

@@3jayseedank none of Yoshi's and Jiggly aerials are better than Pika's

[@dogdawg4225]

I wish the two could debate it cuz while watching this I was seeing a lot of esam’s points but then I had to remember how much easier it is to win an argument when the other person can’t say anything back to you

[@AsheshAryal]

I swear ESAM is the only person who'd diss a person on THEIR main! XD

[@NVS_Snake]

Are you sure? Literally everyone disses everyone on their main. Also, ESAM plays ZSS a lot, Marss is a bit cocky. At least ESAM isnt being toxic about it. But yeah he is “telling a person about their main”

[@AsheshAryal]

It's just a joke, chill

[@madmoxxi7397]

Leffen lmao

[@DivineOOGWAY]

@@NVS_Snake I mean tbf I would be a little cocky too if I was miles ahead of any other zss player and was top 5 in the world.

[@NVS_Snake]

Forbes Sutherland lol. I guess so. Its good to have self confidence sometimes

[@f.b.i3942]

Marss and esam boxing match

[@drewbutler8432]

Bruh lol

[@Geo_K012]

Yoooo

[@mcfucknugget2673]

Go boxing ring

[@willgoodwin9867]

Lmao the FBI setting up fights

[@mileshadley7696]

Go boxing ring

[@NotLaqin]

Why ZSS isn’t S-tier: If you play perfectly you can beat her.

[@HoboraMax]

A skilled Roy can beat any Zero Suit.

[@juicyvortex7204]

@JorgeJR you could jv 4 stock if played perfectly

[@BuckshotBill118]

What do most characters have as options to get out of disadvantage off stage? Airdodge (Neutral/Directional), jump, attack, or Up B. Now, add a 50/50 flip kick (get out of disadvantage almost free), and a tether. "If I don't use flip kick, what am I going to do?" I don't know, use one of the other 6 options you have?

[@dans0886]

Thank you

[@Mepphy99]

As a damn Ganondorf main i would love to have a frame 1 Who gets priority over Little mac's, flipkick, an incredible Jump a ZAIR and tether xD

[@NVS_Snake]

So youre saying ZSS has more options to get out of disadvantage/recover

[@BuckshotBill118]

@@Mepphy99 As a Falcon main, I get you. I have one more option to recover, but playing these characters is just asking to be Tech Checked.

[@Mepphy99]

@@BuckshotBill118 but ZSS not S tier

[@3jayseedank]

ESAM: Pikachu? B U S T E D Marss: Zero Suit Samus? *NOT* B U S T E D

[@afromarco005]

Hotel? Trivago

[@jabs1340]

afromarco005 lmao

[@q8599]

I have a question how do you make the test black

[@3jayseedank]

@@q8599 You do * after and before the word Try It!

[@q8599]

Ok im gonna try it

[@nessfinesse3195]

It took me too long to realise that they're not actually recording together and Esam is just watching Marss's tier list 4 minutes too long

[@jj6148]

Lol

[@nessfinesse3195]

@ProTheGrammer Yes, 4 minutes in

[@Avossk]

Oh god for a second there I was worried that Marss was getting cancelled LMAO

[@AccelgorTheNinja]

If anything itd be the other way around haha

[@Reyes_Ferrufino]

Nico Low ikr lol

[@NVS_Snake]

Oh no no no, I thought he was just going to make fun of him as a joke or play against him. Which I was semi right lol

[@doxazo5512]

I’d unsub lol, ESAM can virtue signal all he wants to try and make up for his mistakes but if he actually starts tearing down others I’m out

[@Avossk]

@@doxazo5512 Bruh

[@lite1979]

ESAM makes a good point in saying that Marss doesn't play AGAINST a lot of Zero Suit Samus players, so his perspective is limited. No one knows how hard you punch better than the person who just got punched. I main Pikachu (big surprise on this channel, right?), and when Ultimate came out, I had a hard time playing against other Pikachus. Whether it was the less shield-heavy play compared to Brawl, or the nair loops with his mewtwo-esque Nair, or technical quick-attacks, I told myself "No more Pika-on-Pika violence. This is not working for me." I now win a lot more of the matches against other Pikachus, but it took a lot of getting Pwned by other Pikachus to get to that point.

[@Revan1207]

By the same measure though, ESAM gets his ass handed to him by ZSS players so of course he thinks she's godly lol

[@OffDaSenzu]

TYVM i think that’s a fair point to bring up. let’s jus call ZSS top 10 and call it a day lol

[@ChrisPBacon-zf5gm]

There are no other zss players

[@Revan1207]

@@OffDaSenzu 100% agree, she's definitely top 10. Honestly, deciding the order among the S tiers is absolutely extremely subjective/nuanced. I don't think there's anything wrong with ESAM thinking ZSS is better than Marss does, but I do find his "that's preposterous" attitude about it pretty asinine.

[@avocado9466]

Same as a bayonetta main at first fighting another bayo was the worst thing ever after fighting pika pika

[@delaresdanny2737]

Now I wait for Marss' video titled "Shut Up, ESAM"

[@cobalt318]

Waiting to say this comment aged well

[@kurjirathezora]

He wouldn't because ESAM is better than Marss ever will be because of some things listed here: 1. ESAM doesn't bully people 2. ESAM doesn't teabag like a FPS scrub 3. ESAM doesn't trash characters other people play 4. ESAM doesn't make excuses if he loses a match 5. ESAM doesn't claim to be number 1 due to him being humble If you can give me other reasons as to why ESAM is a better play list them

[@dxmixn.2147]

@@kurjirathezora 1. Marss Bullys other people because he's better 2. Marss teabags because he's better 3. Marss trashes other people's characters because he's mostly right 4. Marss makes excuses because he's right and he sees his failures 5. Marss claims to be number 1 because he is. Stop whining about how toxic marss is, snowflake

[@SmidgeFilms]

@@dxmixn.2147 ^^^^^^^ the other guy got played by the ole internet personality mix-up. @Chaud Spieler His attitude makes him money whether it's streaming/YT and I'd have to check but i don't think he dissects what peoples opinions are to the aggressive extent ESAM just did in this video. TBH I came to this video after some interesting conversation about the rivalry these two have and honestly esam's personality seems significantly more toxic than the memeing marss does to random players online. At the end of the day at least he can respect a good player, which you do not seem to do

[@ShinyKelp]

Marss: ZSS has like seven -2 mus Fatality: Falcon only has one -2 mu ESAM: lol losing mus? What's that?

[@chrispo7610]

Funny flat man be like: M A S H

[@mzbros8155]

@@chrispo7610 U P W A R D S P E C I A L

[@jessielsanchez5079]

PK BOI GO: P K F I R E

[@AverageHandle_]

Real talk though why are Pit, Luigi and Diddy in high tier and Pichu in mid tier

[@notrentu100]

I think all of them are high tiers

[@ThePandaByte]

The pit buffs were huge for pit but ppl act like he doesn’t exist

[@tannukiiruukii]

pit sucks

[@slinkiistuff1561]

Because thats where they all belong

[@aquaz6607]

Diddy is actually high tier and there was a new infinite discovered

[@Bungafist]

"everyone has options when zss is sitting in the corner" -Mars 2020

[@whiffunderscore703]

lol

[@glenndiddy]

Cries in 90% of the cast being too slow or not having a tool to punish camping

[@jovannydiazabad6123]

@@glenndiddy Zelda laughs at that with her neutral B, although she's slow soo....

[@3jayseedank]

"Go boxing ring" Is the new "Yoshi commits tax fraud" I Swear...

[@nesssniffyfan1987]

Haha you wish

[@3jayseedank]

@@nesssniffyfan1987 I wish both memes died and I want no-one to even mention that they knew about the worst memes ever. (Yoshi Commits Tax Fraud) IT's Stupid dumb, and its a waste of time

[@thegreenitalianmachine5411]

@@3jayseedank I might be dumb for checking this, but 3 months later, how's that "Yoshi Commits Tax Fraud" and "Go Boxing Ring" Meme going?

[@benjaminmarson4622]

"Nobody's perfect, the ZSS is going to mess stuff up, but if you're perfect, then she's not that good"

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Same can be said about every other character in the game.

[@ThoA45]

it's so annoying to hear say stuff like that. If you're perfect you'll probably kick people's ass with Ridley or some shit like that.

[@Hundderx]

@@ThoA45 How is ridley bad? Lol.

[@bassy9524]

ridley s tierrrr

[@rangodash]

At the end of the day, especially in tournament, a good neutral and having the fasted overall speed in the game matters A LOT. Being able to dictate what interactions you take gives you a slight, but inherent advantage in neutral, and ZSS does this as well as anyone else in the game, and probably better than everyone else. The Japanese players recognized this early on, hence them realizing she was top tier while US thought she was mid tier (lol)

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Lmao exactly.

[@luke71722]

boxing ring

[@mordykinz4228]

Pog

[@duckdudette]

This has the feel of someone debunking a conspiracy theory video.

[@sealvain6810]

As a Zss main, I can say with 100% seriousness, *FORWARD THROW IS BUSTED*

[@tylercarballo3677]

It feels like Marss changed how he ranked zss compared to everyone else where he did everything in theory he did zss based of practice and slight theory. Everyone who does characters based on practice down plays whatever character they talk about shulks always say in practice they’re barely top 10 but in theory he’s getting like top 5.

[@darciheadswillroll]

Quite frankly I think it's familiarity bias or understanding bias, like if I said "Japan is the best country to live" Then a Japanese person says no and explains why it isn't the best, to the Japanese person he might be 100% right but it's just bias imo idk

[@STAWBsOrio]

Mostly agree with this. The thing about forward throw is pretty much true though. Even online I can react in time to DI up when I’m playing a fastfaller. I pretty much never get f throw tech chased into nair flip kick unless I HUGELY mess up. Also flip jump is not that good for punishing projectile spam offline because the risk-reward is rarely in your favour. If they’re in an animation it will bounce off them and they get a free hard punish.

[@zsoliddanys1083]

The thing with Marss is, he always talks about her weaknesses but never mentions her very obvious strengths. ZSS is top tier, free.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

I mean,she is defenitly top of high tier,but her recovery is basically 3 jumps and can be easily intercepted.

[@zsoliddanys1083]

@@ahmadkazan7994 Nah, she is definetly top tier. "Easily intercepted", yeah lets ignore that it starts in frame one and has a bunch of i frames.

[@ricocarpenter2189]

@@ahmadkazan7994 Dont forget her other moves. Down b starts in frame I think and has invincibility frames at the beginning, she can use her tether, she has a good air speed and high double jump, her up b while it doesn't send that far is still decent and has a hit box

[@ahmadkazan7994]

@@zsoliddanys1083 her up B,I know about her side B and down B being amazing.

[@eragon78]

@@ahmadkazan7994 even marss would disagree with you here. ZSS has by far one of the best disadvantages in the game, and her recovery is ALSO one of the best in the game. Its far far better than a measly 3 jumps.

[@JazzEKeez]

0:25 ESAM basically telling Marrs to check his privilege

[@eret3]

I actually thought they were talking to eachother, and then esam fkn paused marss while he was speaking and I almost convinced myself that esam had time stopping powers

[@Splarff]

I want to see Esam make something like the art of smash series that Izaw made. He's great at explaining stuff

[@SandLordMega]

"it's not a mistake, to do an aerial on the ground" uh can you teach me how to do this, mistake or not that must be some high tier play

[@LiteralmenteFadul]

Mars watching this video: "yeah but ur bald"

[@chriscanavan6739]

Why isnt he going boxing ring?

[@SteeleRam]

Mars: "Zero suit is not top tier." Also Mars: *proceeds to win a genesis against the best character and best player in the world with that same character.

[@glyphyt659]

Mars or marss? Mars is a planet marss is a top SSBU player

[@dfsshusa6354]

How to trigger Esam: "ZSS is better than Pikachu"

[@Geo_K012]

How to trigger ESAM: Disagree with him on anything

[@Geo_K012]

And then get blocked

[@jaydendavids]

How to trigger Esam: Go boxing ring

[@lucinamain6861]

How to trigger Esam: Pika sux

[@NVS_Snake]

Jorge Beltran Okay thats not true.

[@bigtoblerone8446]

So basically like, he takes into consideration everyone else's followups after turning neutral into advantage, but not his own character's.

[@ahmadkazan7994]

"Put myself in the corner as a light weight,and die early" Uh,isn't that how you play sonic?And you put him in high tier

[@cinbasso4887]

best running speed, spin dash spin charge can act out of spring need i say more

[@HenryZhoupokemon]

Ngl Marss’ ZSS take is almost at the level of Dabuz’s tier list

[@cagnacagnacagnacagna1127]

I wouldn't take it that far 😂🤣

[@---ng7ke]

Dabuz is so smart but also dumb at the same time

[@mikeyHustle]

I find it fascinating that I (plays Zero Suit, does not play Pikachu) didn't believe half of Marss' tier list for this patch and thought ESAM's was spot-on.

[@mysticsquirtle5109]

I would say zss is definitely top 10 because she is one of the best well rounded characters in the game. She has good combos and kill power, can be explosive or lame, an amazing neutral and disadvantage state, can overextend and recover from far, but has a decently guardable recovery, and has a great jab and good combo starters, with a fast throw speed and slow grab speed. On the other hand tho, she is pretty light and dies early if she gets hit, can be out ranged, and has small hitboxes.

[@4xzx4]

Ikr...

[@Roguerobin4]

Mars: If she lands you should push her advantage and punish her grab attempt. Also Mars: You should go for neutral play against her because your combos do more for you. Mars a third time: ZSS has one of the best neutrals in the game. Mars pls: If you try to punish her grab whiffs and fail, that's your fault.

[@zachwagner9978]

I’m so glad you made this video. I saw his placement and scratched my head

[@Splarff]

I really hope Marss tries to defend himself in a reaction video. Which I hope even more leads to another Esam video. Which I hope also leads to another Marss video.

[@cinbasso4887]

i hope not at the end of the day marss is the world's best zss and doesn't have nothing to prove. besides i doubt he made that tier list with the scope of caring about other top players opinions

[@keithtestaverde3712]

I think Marss' point is that ZSS has to work a little harder for things that most of the other top tiers don't. You have to read very well because she doesn't have high damage combos. Also you have to hit nair flip kick in order to win at high level. She's very high risk high reward, while most top tiers are good because they're safe to play and do a ton of damage. She's still top 10 of course.

[@jhonxiolon]

"high risk hi reward" -has one of the safest nairs, zairs, down b's, down smashes Zero suit apologists everyone. Your character is top tier, deal with it.

[@keithtestaverde3712]

@@jhonxiolon I literally main Link wtf. And yeah, Marss plays high risk high reward. He does stupid shit all the time that costs him games

[@jhonxiolon]

@@keithtestaverde3712 That's literally on him But you said ZSS was high risk high reward, not him. ANd she isn't by the way.

[@jackanderson368]

jhonxiolon Not sure if you ever played zss for a good solid while. But she’s not a pick up and play type of character at all. Half of her moves require precision like nair, zair, and even down B. If zss try’s to do a down B spike and misses, she gets punished hard. You can’t overextend with this character. Not to mention all the top tier characters that marss placed, zss either mostly loses or is even with. Zss is an amazing character, but also stressful to play with. So I personally thinks she’s upper high tier.

[@LiarofShinovar]

Tell Marss to go boxing ring

[@zangetsu5549]

Great, now go boxing

[@Driff97]

"Everyone has options for me chilling in the corner" Esam: Bro you fuckin-

[@Gabriel14366]

People like to acknowledge zss's strength but like to rush past the fact that all of her best moves have glaring weaknesses that balance them out. Flip kick probably her best move but its still incredibly bad on shield and if you miss it. Its an amazing defensive tool but has a lot of draw backs as an offensive tool. Her Ariels have similar problems. Her hitboxes, while they do have good range they are by no means good hit box's they are often very thin and do not cover the majority of her hurt boxes so she trades a lot. So many charters in this game especially the top tiers have Ariels that do everything, they have good hit boxes, they kill or set up for Kills, they are safe both on shield and when missed , they have descent range and they combo. If you look at zss's Ariel's they don't do this, zair is only safe at further ranges and only combos at closer ranges so you have to choose, do you want to use it to camp or combo because it can only do one of those effectively. Nair is also very good but incredibly slow it is frame 10 which is not bad. The move becomes slow when you factor in how long it takes to actually hit a character. The move basically doesn't hit any character in the game raising so you have to do it falling and because it is only active for a single frame or 2 if you fast fall as soon as possible out of a short hop then the move still won't hit most characters especially short and medium height characters. When everything is all said and done you jump, rise, and fast fall then time the frame 10 Ariel and your move isn't actually landing until 25+ frames after you hit jump on most regular height characters and even more time on short chapters. This is reactable and it makes jumping in and not just getting spot dodged or shielded very difficult against a good player as zss. So Zss is forced to basically have to get call outs and reads to get any damage that isn't a little poke because zair only does 6% fresh. If she wants to get any started and actually land a move she has to commit to her long start up animations during the other players animations meaning all her decision are predetermined and she has very few situations where she can react especially in neutral. I think she is really good (10th) I just think people see Marss win neutral once and get like 4 reads in a row and kill the player and think that's how zss plays, no that is how Marss plays marss is explosive and willing to take more risks then most players. The other ranks zss mains are from Japan and are much more campy rarely ever going for Nair flip kick or edgegaurd like Marss

[@Unknown-dm2ge]

People don't realize how damn hard of a character she is to use properly. Some people will claim Marss is being carried by her.

[@andreazhab]

I think it’s way more simple than just “he doesn’t play other ZSSs so he’s not aware of the strengths of the character”. I think he just wants to convince others that ZSS is not that good and that he’s carrying the character and not that the character is carrying him (and she’s not, but he wants to look like some sort of “amazing player that wins with a mid tier”)

[@Snowballsage]

Also probably a small part that he only sees the weaknesses of his own character more than others because he uses here a lot and doesn’t see the weaknesses of others as well because he doesn’t use them and just assumes they’re better

[@giovaniconforti1956]

He is carrying the character but she is not mid tier buddy, he never said that she is mid tier seriously, only jokingly

[@andreazhab]

Giovani Conforti I was saying it as an explanation of what I meant. Also, no, he’s not carrying the character. He’s a good player playing a good character, that’s it He’s using her strengths in the correct way but doesn’t aknowledge them for the reasons I just explained

[@giovaniconforti1956]

Canale utile per fare cose yeah I agree

[@giovaniconforti1956]

Canale utile per fare cose my previous statement was a bit wrong

[@cjbakaluk]

My man getting more and more upset as the video goes on. I love it! All of the points you bring up are why I literally shake in my booties when I'm against zss no matter who it is

[@duke_8747]

It's easy to critique why your main sucks and everyone elses in the game is amazing until you start playing that character. Honestly you should ask other top tiers regarding their frustrations and opinions with your main

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Exactly this.

[@theajsouresrigasoure5651]

Im just tryna cheer up after watching AngelBeats

[@diogo8871]

This comment is so random but i love it Edit : kanadeeee

[@emanonomoi]

the void doesn’t go away :)

[@hlin834]

Angel beats makes no sense Still nearly lost it

[@cehnd2662]

You should watch Clannad, it'll cheer you up. It's worth the episodes.

[@theajsouresrigasoure5651]

Cehnd oh I’m not gonna be played for a fool my freind

[@happycamperds9917]

He put ZSS around Olimar, who is considered Top Tier by some. He might still call ZSS bottom of top tier but his “top tier” is smaller than some players’.

[@elispangler812]

11:39 *implies that boost kick has a hitbox

[@theomarcot4164]

Because boost kick has a hitbox it's as simple as that

[@ryankyungsoocho4291]

That’s sm4sh

[@shanek2724]

@@ryankyungsoocho4291 literally the tiniest hitbox ever in existence. You have to literally be running into her shield or stopped and be touching it to get hit.

[@martzfartz]

Viability on boxing ring?

[@cehnd2662]

People always say ZSS is broken but I've never seen any players who play ZSS well or just play her in general online. She takes considerable amount of skills and good control.

[@TopOfAllWorlds]

yeah same with good pikas. You never see actual good pikas onlinr

[@nathandawit2899]

I wanna see marss make a video called "Shut Up, ESAM" where he critiques your critique of his placement of ZSS

[@tinytoasters3657]

I like Esam and Dark Wizzy cuz they actually say their character is great instead of underrating them

[@momopenguins7335]

aggressive maister noises

[@zsoliddanys1083]

Exactly, Marss refuses to accept that his character is insane too.

[@perturbo4253]

I really think it's strange how much top players undermine their mains. Just admit it like Esam. Your character is fucking good

[@akarias888]

ESAM ranked pika #1 what are you talking about

[@cameronschiralli3569]

@@akarias888 He's saying Marss should be like ESAM and admit his character is broken

[@perturbo4253]

@@akarias888 Um...just take your time. Read this comment again. Use your brain for Christ's sake

[@zorroarkrz1686]

PiKaChu bUstEd

[@con2k323]

Is it just me or does every best player put their main in a lowish tier

[@natekite7532]

Not ESAM lol

[@con2k323]

Yeah except ESAM and Mkleo

[@emilizlim1802]

nah, fatality puts falcon where he should be

[@johnnytamale8676]

It's funny, other than leo and esam that is true, but I feel like the lower down on the skill tree you go, players tend to over value mid tiers and under value top tiers

[@zFunnyBoy_]

dark wizzy thinks very highly of mario

[@ryans.1900]

I love ESAM breakdowns

[@GppGery123]

10/10 title

[@Connordposey]

Go boxing ring?

[@AccelgorTheNinja]

Esam and Marss go boxing ring tho?

[@scoobymew1]

damn you didn’t call him the nword?

[@L_Giancarlo]

This is the smash equivalent of a "This you"

[@lucas2.067]

Best title ever( yes, I am not creative )

[@shinygoomy2460]

If there are no other good ZSS then maybe you'rr not trapped by the character, maybe you're trapped by MARSS

[@jancox8258]

Boxing ring

[@ojaylenjones2301]

This is why you never ask someone to critique their main

[@SH-rs3zw]

I bet Marss would shut up if you went boxing ring

[@proballa27]

Somewhat unrelated but why is ZSS pretty much universally considered a top tier character, yet people are still sleeping on Greninja and sometimes have him outside the top 20? They are a very similar archetype with certain tradeoffs that some could argue are in greninjas favour. The most significant tools in ZSS's favour are flip kick and boost kick, which are obviously fantastic and a huge part of what makes ZSS so good. BUT! As a tradeoff Greninja get a much more potent combo game, more consistent kill power/confirms, on top of being a shorter character with significantly more weight (88 vs 80) and even more speed and mobility. He also has dash attack, which flows so well with his speed and honestly if ZSS had that dash attack she would probably go up at least two or three spots on the tier list . Sure you could still argue that flip jump alone makes ZSS better but like over 10 spots better? Idk...

[@thewinkersshow575]

Zss 100% has better mobility than greninja. Also her Zair is a huge factor at out ranging large hit boxes. Without zair she probably would be middle of high tier

[@HexorMastah]

Bet he won't go boxing ring

[@iantownshend9304]

Marss has to have by far the most awkward facial expressions, its like his face is frozen

[@joelthoms5600]

Marss and ESAM go boxing ring lol

[@miraisthebestfr]

ESAM it’s not even fair you’re the only top player who thinks your character is good

[@jvzy4livin262]

Exactly🙄🤦🏾

[@drewbutler8432]

So true

[@Dynamic_78]

Meanwhile Sam out here cosplaying as Peach

[@donaldjgumpofficial5754]

How does Leo rate Joker by the way?

[@jvzy4livin262]

Drew Butler everybody else dont think their character great but Esam the only one who thinks that Pika is busted but do he know that for sure

[@mannx2_495]

*COOOLLLLAAAA-* _oh wait- oh shucks_ -_-

[@Snowballsage]

That’s what I thought lmao I even made a comment about it then I watched it for a minute and deleted the comment

[@tetanictomcat1299]

Marss is about to try to take this to a boxing ring

[@c.w35t87]

I haven't played against god tier ZZS players but for me if I don't go aggressive and overwhelm her I just will get stuck at neutral forever. Since I use Mario I don't have much of a option anyways.

[@randomtwig9169]

Ok ignoring everything else, why the flip is Plant next to Incineroar???

[@desi21century]

This whole video I thought they were having a convo then I realized that marss pause literally everytime Esam talks😭

[@bluehair2697]

ESAM spitting facts and giving proper arguments is the best feeling ever

[@amotoz]

This aged well

[@KodakKid33]

“if you somehow punish downB and up air her then she just down airs to the floor and gets hit a single time and then has her downB again”. This is kinda fake imo, her dair is linear, slow and very punishable, when you say she “gets hit a single time”, she’s either getting hit by a good combo starter, a strong kill move, or you failed to punish. It’s an okay mix up option but definitely not some reliable “get to the floor for flip kick asap” button. Besides, even without flip kick her air mobility, fast air dodge and good aerials make her decent at landing without having to sacrifice herself using dair

[@natefrison9371]

I don’t know if I would call her dair slow, but yes it is punishable. He should have said fast fall, because she has good aerial mobility

[@Trattt]

He's doing this because he wants to let people think zss is worse then they think and so they can "learn" the matchup against him

[@andreazhab]

17:05 "AAA- so does that make sense to y'all?"

[@DJinThaMatrix]

So let me get this straight Top 3 disadvantage state Top 3 neutral state Can kill at 40% Top 3 camping What is this character?

[@mattkase8880]

You also have to take into account her weaknesses. Her nair has to be a landing arial making it reactionary. She has a relatively big hit box despite being one of the lightest characters in the game. Her kill setups are very read-based and most are very punishable. She can’t just kill you with a move unless it’s bait but that’s also an arial and has a small and precise hitbox like many of her other moves. She really only has one good grab, being forward for tech chasing but that requires call outs. Down throw and back throw are useless. Up throw doesn’t kill until like 165. Her neutral is good but her damage is relatively poor. People talk about how ridiculous boost kick is, but if you DI correctly it shouldn’t kill early, and is an okay recovery tool. Also for top level play it’s not as much of an issue, but kill combos with this character require a lot more technical prowess than say Lucina and palu who can just hit you with a bair and kill.

[@syzoth_141]

​@@mattkase8880 Her nair is -2 and very disjointed. It debatably does not have the best startup, but that doesn't make it "reactionary" with 6 frames of landing lag. Pikachu is lighter than ZSS. Her kill setups are not extremely read based, many of her confirming options like nair or up air are still -2, and her bair is a powerful -6 option. She can just kill you with a move. A -2, disjointed move at 40 or so. Her aerials have plenty of priority for a "light character with precise hitboxes". She has a tether grab, allowing her to mixup recovery, grab ledge easier and tether grabs are still very good in this game. You literally just said forward throw sets up tech chases. It's not call outs its reacting offline, and with her safe aerials she doesn't need to worry about getting punished for having it shielded. You don't need all of your throws to be useful, sometimes you just need them to put you in a better position. Up throw killing at 165 is absurd, go look at other characters who have "kill throws" and compare it to hers. Her neutral is very good and I don't know the character enough to talk about her damage output, but boost kick still kills very early for a frame 4 attack that works as an out of shield option, and she still has other recovery tools, mainly flip kick and sideb tether. I'm not saying the character is top 3 (because she does have flaws), but these aren't the flaws you're looking for.

[@mattkase8880]

Vincent B. Pikachu is certainly lighter, as they should be. As I stated- she’s very light for her size. Pikachu has a smaller hitbox and pancakes a lot so they still tend to live longer. I did say that bair can kill right? If not I’m sorry. but nair can only kill if you get the hit at or near ledge, with proper spacing, it’s character dependent, can be DI-ed to an extent, and I meant reactionary as in you can react to shield it. I do know it’s usually hard to punish though. If you can survive past around 60 as most characters it’s no longer usually true and is much easier to escape. As for boost kick, while powerful and a good oos option, it’s still risky as I stated. If you miss it’s a hard punish, and when grounded it has a very small starting hitbox, so you can still safely pressure her shield as long as you space properly (as for parries I’m not sure but worse punishes can come from parries with other characters. And yes for it’s speed it’s powerful, but again, with proper DI you can still survive to relatively high percents provided you’re not directly at ledge. Zair is very nice to have, though her grabs are what I’m not entirely sure on. Up throw kills my friend at 165 who plays incineroar, though I believe he’s just not using DI for it because I’ve lived to higher with lighter characters. As for f throw, you’re probably definitely right, but I haven’t had much chance to play offline ever so I’d just not know tbh. The main problem I see online is that her tether grab is so slow that it leads to very hard punishes and can be reacted to. In all fairness and honesty, your argument may have more backing than mine, seeing as I mostly play online, where you CAN be easily punished even with safer moves because of lag causing mistiming and mistakes. I’m not trying to say she isn’t a great character, I was just trying to say that she does have some noticeable flaws. She’s cancer online if you camp tho lmao. Personally I’d still say she’s very high up, but for top tiers she’s probably towards the bottom due to just how absurd the others are. All in all tier list can just be opinions too, like how I think my friend who thinks hero is mid tier is wrong (very much so for online cancer) and also because he just uses that as an excuse if he loses then calls himself the best for winning with hocus pocus (that’s a bit irritating). Also sorry for not replying sooner.

[@syzoth_141]

@@mattkase8880 Glad we could get on the same track. The UpB makes sense, it has a very small starting hitbox and is by no means close to gnw, but it's better than many other upb's at punishing aggressive bursts. Throws killing at even 180 is still very, very good especially with how quick the up throw animation itself is. Tether grabs may be slower but I believe it's the opposite where it's worse offline and better online, but such a big grabbox is always nice for covering options.

[@mattkase8880]

Vincent B. I think for kills throws it’s just my matter of perspective, seeing as when in play as ZSS I die to a lot of throws far earlier than mine. While the grab is definitely nice in range I do feel like it just doesn’t work sometimes and I’ve seen it just go through, maybe an odd glitch (either way awhile ago so probably patched now). I do definitely get what you mean with the speed of u throw tho, if you rip it right when the grab connects it is probably very hard to DI if you didn’t see it coming. There’s only one thing about ZSS that I don’t understand at all and that is her hurt box on Up smash. For some reason if you hit any part of the whip for the first half of the move she will be damaged. Do you possibly know why? Just kinda curious. Either way I really love ZSS, and wish I could just play her better in general, but due to my aggressive nature I tend to play captain falcon more nowadays.

[@brehella770]

I’m pretty sure that Marss knowingly understated his character’s abilities so she doesn’t get nerfed. He’s made a note before of the fact that a character could be busted and nobody would do anything about it if it were never mentioned, that’s why Palu got nerfed and other stuff, so he’s just going to use reverse psychology to make everyone thinks she sucks so they’ll actually buff her instead of nerf her.

[@bambyce]

He needs a reason to explain why Leo has better results xD

[@NVS_Snake]

Cuz Leo has always been this good. And come on, Joker is number 2. And Leo was winning BEFORE the nerfs and like 2 tournaments after the nerfs. So Joker was number 1 before the nerfs and number 2 after the nerfs.

[@jawbreakerHxC]

you mean "go boxing ring"

[@fridolinrinke9099]

I'm sure Marss has a lot of respect for Leo and admires his skill. I can highly recommend his match analysis of G7 Grands. Very funny and informative. :)

[@DemonEyeHelix]

@@NVS_Snake Joker is #1 still. His very minor nerf didn't change his placement. Base joker (without arsene) is a top tier. Joker with arsene is in his own tier.

[@thewinkersshow575]

Taylor Helms wut. Base joker AT BEST would be the very bottom of high tier. The nerfs were also very damaging. The gun nerf was huge and now a ton of matchups are not invalidated off stage as much. The Arsene nerf also hurts. This is coming from someone who occasionally plays him as well as the opinion of other top players.

[@dtmuffinman]

This is gonna cause drama because people hate Esam and love Marss, but Marss' logic is objectively terrible. There is no defending that.

[@kahuls._.3794]

I died at this comment 😂

[@aIkaIi]

Why would people hate esam

[@f.b.i3942]

📦💍

[@CerealSSBU]

@@f.b.i3942 I don't get the whole boxing ring thing

[@aIkaIi]

@@f.b.i3942 No, I'm not gae

[@phantomslash311]

Zero suit is definitely a top tier. He can’t just argue with “don’t get hit” since many characters struggle with her speed, advantage state, small hurt box, and excellent neutral. There are some characters that get nullified by that

[@MercMercury]

This music makes me really want to play DKC2 again haha

[@MiniVoltar2]

Im more concerned on why Mr. Game & Watch wasn't in S tier.

[@Oz1455]

So I'm probably the only that, for the first 5 minutes, actually thought they were talking to each other... :D

[@mikeas0216]

you are not alone my friend ^^

[@Oz1455]

@@mikeas0216 YES!!!!!

[@xenoistaken]

At first i thought that they were both in the same room re-watching Marss video

[@Comster_237]

このBGMドンキーコング2の中でも特に好きな曲のひとつやったな〜。つまりは、神曲。

[@peppy619]

Of course he says his main is not top tier, this way he thinks he can avoid getting a nerf. It's the oldest trick in the book

[@MrGameguyC]

We get it Marss, you don't want ZSS to get nerfed. Don't worry, it probably won't happen.

[@blakejohnson2818]

#esamvsmaarsboxingmatch

[@johnw5004]

Ya spelled marss wrong

[@nice_gamingfunnymomentsxd4011]

If you're gonna tell him to shut up at least go boxing ring and 1v1 him.

[@johnangelodeanon4505]

Boxing Ring