Ladder Combos - True and Untrue (Analysis of Marss at Genesis 7)

An analysis of Marss' ladder combos at Genesis 7, and why he chose to go for some and not others. Plus a full breakdown of some of my own ladder combos and what to do when they're not true.
#Zedessess
Think of this as an extension to "EVERYTHING About Boost Kick". If you haven't seen that, go check it out here:
• ZSS: EVERYTHING About ...
Support me on Patreon: / oriosmash
Follow me on Twitter: / stawbs_orio
Original Orio artwork by Alex Frasca (www.artstation.com/sanguine).
Special thanks to my patrons: Roberto Contreras, Simon Wahlström and Ncik Raaberg.
Opening Ori animation, font likeness and sound effects game-captured from "Ori and the Blind Forest" by Moon Studios.
Visual Effects produced using Blender and Adobe After Effects, with VC Saber, VC Color Vibrance, Red Giant Optical Glow, Ignite Light Flares, Red Giant Knoll Light Factory and Red Giant Trapcode Tao.
Dedicated to Frenzy Light, and as always to my dear friend, Micklebarrow.

[@STAWBsOrio]

6:05 should say “short hop up air” from the platform.

[@srome4088]

As always improving the ZSS comunity. Thanks a lot

[@thunderd7904]

Hell ya! Another amazing ZSS guide by Orio! Think you could go into the fine details of plasma whip next? Or maybe Zair combos?

[@STAWBsOrio]

Music from my edgy phase. Orio is now a metal channel 🤟

[@Halcypian]

You came back at the time when I was about to pick up this character, how amazing!

[@mnoypoiuyt65r4w8]

Daddy?

[@Zoronii]

Airdodge read flipkick might be my new favorite ZSS thing. It just looks so stylish.

[@Bdubuc0401]

Watching Marss as well as your videos really inspired me to main ZSS, and I'm glad you were able to confirm Marss doing the correct options at G7. I hated listening to people who don't know the specifics giving him flak for not going for the boost kick, even though they would've whiffed and left him in free fall for an easy KO. Your videos have gotten me so far with ZSS, and I love watching every one because they teach me something new every time. Keep up the good work!

[@kylekeenliside]

Even though I am god awful with ZSS, I always love your videos. They're so well edited and insightful

[@FrenzyLight]

You make everything Beautiful 😍

[@STAWBsOrio]

No u

[@sealvain6810]

Isn’t it amazing when someone who has more subs than u gives you a comment! It’s like when Bathaniel Nandy commented on an Introspective vid XD

[@Star_Taro]

What I learned: Marss knows what he's doing and I can bait out an air dodge to flip kick spike

[@RamikinHorde]

yeah, they commentators criticizing Marss when they don't understand ZSS was really tilting me. Dude knows what's up

[@joecripps8442]

Cheers for another sick video, love the slow metal and how clear you explain it

[@louisvuittondonvg9040]

you have one of the best ultimate channels on YT

[@lewismatos7835]

This is truly the best channel for ZSS content

[@jobliar937]

Nobody: STAWBs Orio: *ZED* SS

[@fordprefect5104]

Another great and informative video thank you.

[@tiborjemelin1684]

I think you are one of my favorite smash youtubers!! Realy cool Vids keep it up👍

[@gracefulcharity8412]

Honestly I do agree completely with this. Plus he played it smart what's the point of even risking trying to hit at that time especially with him being at kill % Always look forward to your vids always fantastic work !!

[@LxZLink]

Awesome video:) super informative as always! There's something so special about hitting that one move that will setup into a ladder and thinking to yourself "if i don't mess this up, your death is imminent and there's nothing you can do about it". Zss is beautiful!

[@xPlatinumGhost]

Some of these setups are so hard online with lag involved. Great guide yet again👍

[@DarkThomy]

Just recently picked up on ultimate's zss and your videos... Glad you still make new ones ! I'd hope for a zair in depth video..

[@KaiCalimatinus]

Heckin rad, as always

[@projectfar1956]

A fire analysis

[@Arian-xw8ib]

It's amazing, watch the video of the combos ladder and I see that you just uploaded another one, it's very owo the matter.

[@genobreaker1054]

I am also fascinated by ZSS's ladder combo. The best I ever been at Smash was in Smash 64, with Pikachu, and I did something very similar by hitting with the tail at ground level repeatedly, then arial tail attacks, and finishing with Thunder to pull them off the top of the map. I don't have a Switch, so when I play, I play Smash 4 on 3DS. I usually write off the Boost Kick, I always preferred her Up B in Brawl, but this always fascinates me with the proof, time and time again, that Boost Kick is something I really should be using!

[@-zod-4882]

Weird coincidence. I play you once. Then KZbin recommended your channel to me. Lol. very good quality vid btw

[@genobreaker1054]

The fact that explaining a pro player's decision requires a frame by frame analysis and multiple recreations by a mathematician, for something Marss made a call on on the fly, just goes to really highlight the level these pros are on. Holy crap...

[@uchihajunior5648]

i did not play ZSS, but after watching your guides on her, i gave her a try, and now i'm training to make her my secondary, i really like your videos, and also wished there was at least one guider that goes as in-depht on each character as you for every character on the game.

[@_soulgamez_3104]

Why do you have so few subs? U deserve more! Ur such a wonderful youtuber

[@alejandromaldonadoanaya6141]

oye soy de Mexico, estaba viendo tus videos y me ayudaron mucho en mejorar con este personaje gracias

[@LarryNoir]

I picked up ZSS a few months ago because she is flashy as hell and looks cool. I still suck, but your videos and Marss sets have been great learning tools.

[@sealvain6810]

same bro, i learn so much from watching marss, but orio is my main scource of knowledge XD

[@originalph00tbag]

I'm glad you're around setting the record straight on ZSS in general. My rule of thumb on executing this combo is really only to go for combos that you call "of the first kind." It's a pretty clear visual cue, since the opponent slows vertical movement basically at the same time as ZSS and right in front of her. It's very clear you're about to hit a guaranteed Boost Kick. I'm a little less concerned about KOing, though. All about style points with me.

[@apnpawaw3448]

unrelated to the video but I just love the name "Orio"

[@isaiahchand9389]

So excited love ur vids! Taught me so much got me pumped to play the game. Would love to see a orio style vid talking about Zair and plasma whip! Thanks again

[@criddyboy124]

Can you do a vid on how to get better with her? Just like general tips or something cuz I want to learn ZSS so bad but idk where to start

[@raneanubis]

didn't even know ZSS has rage!!!! the level of depth of this character is nuts!!

[@clement_jacob]

Every character has rage ?

[@sealvain6810]

umm... every charachter in the game has rage...

[@raneanubis]

@@sealvain6810 I actually had no idea. I guess ZSS is so easy to kill once she hits about 100% I didn't notice the difference.

[@sealvain6810]

raneanubis honestly thats fair shes so light

[@SpartaZSS]

Yesss

[@smaugazs1406]

Hi ! Super contained your channel ! Hi would like to know you’re best controller setting for a GameCube pads for jumps thanks you guys and continue you work is crazy 👌

[@wisl9860]

U should make a video about nair! Move is crazy

[@contentman6999]

this damn bunny is so smug

[@Nicholas-iw2xc]

zed ess ess

[@sealvain6810]

Do you have an instagram? I don’t have a Twitter... Also ur vids are amazing

[@The_Gronne]

Wait, someone else uses Ori as their profile icon? I feel like I just found my long lost brother

[@cherrynot2270]

fuck yeah awesome video

[@amadeus645]

Hi, when I try to ladder combo, I am able to bring my opponent in the position where I now have to up-b. However, often I cannot connect the up b and my opponent just air dodges it. What should I do to improve this?

[@threethej_rock]

proof marss killed kpop :(( good video orio!

[@beefbelly]

The last clip with jiggly was that the second hit of Fair into flip kick?

[@STAWBsOrio]

Yup

[@toastedtarts4044]

@1:33 what is the units of measurement when the narrator says the top blast zone is 180?

[@38Jemar]

See? Ladders are cool too!

[@bionicallyacomputer292]

Noice

[@KodakKid33]

I don't really understand ladder combos of the second kind; why would missing the first hit of boost kick kill any earlier?

[@STAWBsOrio]

At the same percentage, they wouldn’t. It’s just a matter of hitting the boost kick at a much later percentage.

[@KodakKid33]

@@STAWBsOrio So at later percents, up air sends the opponent too far away for boost kick 1 to connect? That's why it has to be hit 2?

[@shoutyshout1331]

@@KodakKid33 Precisely that.

[@rumpleforeskin6998]

Ay, you think playing smash 4 on emulator against CPUs is OK for practice? I don't own a switch :)

[@exantan9050]

THIS IS GOLD

[@lalitaditya4448]

Do you guys know the best controller setup for a pro controller while using zss?

[@athena1906]

There’s not a specific control setup that’s best, but for zss you find a lot of people using a shoulder button as jump and another one as special with high stick sensitivity, if they don’t use something along the lines of that they use default most of the time, like marss does

[@sirwilczek1813]

January starts with overhyped global events and february starts with THIS! We live in a bright timeline afterall

[@sealvain6810]

We use opposite alts... literally on opposite sides of the color spectrum. Yes. Good.

[@silvesta5027]

Bruh is this guy from England? The ‘zed ess ess’ makes me think so :)

[@STAWBsOrio]

Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@suhayo3042]

Ur epic vro

[@lorenzovismara9385]

My question is: how the hell was Marss able to react so fast and to perfectly time those U-airs?! What do you think is the best controller set-up for Zss?

[@Max-tq5fs]

Almost every seasoned ZSS can do this, after grinding those out for months if not years it just becomes second nature and gut feeling is all you need. The uAir timing isn't even really timed, it's just inputs done asap and then adjusting/reacting to the height the opponents pops off to. Optimal controller setup for zss is shoulder button jump and one shoulder button for special for ez wavebounces and having your thumb free for the c stick but afaik marss uses default so you can make everything work if you work hard enough.

[@lorenzovismara9385]

Max I have the jump also on the R button but I find it useful only for buffered aerials, do you use it for shorthops with delayed U-airs or double-jumps during a ladder combo? I honestly don’t find it optimal with the GC controller

[@lorenzovismara9385]

Max I’m seriously asking your opinion

[@Max-tq5fs]

@@lorenzovismara9385 Personally I'm using z jump on GCC and I don't have any other jump button and no tap jump. I know people who have LR jump on GCC and also don't have another jump button. You just have to grind it out.

[@lorenzovismara9385]

Max I have both Y and R as jump button

[@edumacation4583]

Pretty much not riskin is for the biscuit situation

[@Shmossis]

Rip

[@gileswebinger8147]

Pikachu has a frame 2 air dodge???

[@STAWBsOrio]

Yup. As does ZSS.

[@sovietsparkles]

your voice reminds me of internet historian

[@wubblyjubbly]

hello I’m the guy who asked if you like chicken sandwiches and chair from Twitter

[@STAWBsOrio]

👋

[@jackmullenbach6351]

Kinda hope my main gets nerfed so I can pick up zss

[@MediumDon]

You can pick her up now if you want to!

[@sealvain6810]

Donovan Phillips true

[@lewismatos7835]

If someone could train me with ZSS :'(

[@STAWBsOrio]

I do coaching

[@lewismatos7835]

@@STAWBsOrio Discord? I sent u a request :')

[@reeceulf]

1:10 - 3:02 Is just essentially "It wouldn't have killed" lmao

[@chasedamoni3620]

Do you not know what the word “analysis” means? He was explaining exactly why it wouldn’t have worked, even going so far as to near perfectly recreate the situation the players were in, frame data and all.

[@reeceulf]

Upset gamer

[@STAWBsOrio]

I would be quite flattered if you just took my word for it that it wouldn’t have killed, ngl.

[@reeceulf]

@@STAWBsOrio But I did

[@jackwei7785]

Stop saying Pichu!

[@Sugarist0]

The way u say “z” is confusing me

[@sealvain6810]

he isnt saying z.........

[@JEANS__]

lol u sound nothing like what id someone who runs some furry oc smash channel would sound like. carry on then righto

[@STAWBsOrio]

How many furry oc smash channels do you know? 😏

[@jaminstern1709]

It's not an oc, it's a character named Ori from a game called Ori and the Blind Forest :)

[@STAWBsOrio]

Nah. We look very similar, and have similar names, but no relation.

[@jaminstern1709]

STAWBs Orio not to mention the Ori and the Blind Forest font used in the intro 🤔 solid choice of avatar though, it’s a seriously underrated and beautiful game

[@shavingrabbid]

zss is the least swag character in the game

[@STAWBsOrio]

That hurt my feelings.

[@LDPRxPS3x1]

No. That's Palutena.

[@sealvain6810]

you uncultured swine