Impossible Doom Challenge FINALLY Completed After 30 Years!

[@karljobst]

Zero Master is pretty good at Doom. Thanks to MANSCAPED for sponsoring today’s video! Get 20% Off + Free International Shipping with promo code “KARLJ” at manscaped.com/karljobst

[@mihairomulus2488]

he should start speedrunning

[@JimMilton-ej6zi]

Pp

[@Rainos62]

I mean speedrunners always add new categories when something big is discovered like call the original 30 years percent and the new catagory torture yourself percent because that looks like torture but jokes aside why not split it in 2. have the OG be all kills no final room and the new one be all kills true 100% or something like that i dont see why we cant have both

[@bigm2480]

Watch Player K come back lol.

[@jordantomney3360]

I prefer hairy

[@DMKandilo]

"There is just something cathartic about knowing there was literally no more pain you could've possibly inflicted." Karl definitely going for "100%" when it comes to Billy Mitchell.

[@theconiferoust9598]

billy causing all the carnage to himself.

[@rotciv1492]

@@theconiferoust9598 Friendly fire still counts

[@StrandedKnight84]

I felt like Billy Mitchell was on his mind when Karl scripted this video.

[@TheKiruNias]

It's simply demon infighting, perfectly legit strategy for our Doomguy Karl @@theconiferoust9598

[@plasticflower]

At least in Doom2 you can always team up with an Arch-Vile to kill them over and over again

[@BlueJayWaters]

This guy deserves some serious recognition, and a footnote with 100% under his time isn't enough. He did the real challenge others had assumed impossible, and hence is the true 100% UV max speedrunner for that map. Make a separate category on the boards, and lets see how many others have the balls like this man did to be on the right side of the challenge.

[@palerider9959]

i would list him at he top as rank 0 since he is only one to ever do it

[@lisaruhm6681]

I mean if they dont want to change the rules, I would say make 2 leaderboards for this level, 1 100% leaderboard, and 1 leaderboard, that excludes the last room.

[@eddiepedrosa3805]

Agreed

[@LeCharles07]

@@lisaruhm6681 yeah, a "mental" board and an "as intended" board are required at this point.

[@JFJD]

The “right side of the challenge”, huh? So is this guy’s achievement “the riddle of E1M8 solved”?

[@MartinJungblut]

ZeroMaster is the ABSOLUTE legend.

[@vulpix0r]

He really hates them demons like the real doom slayer.

[@tornado100able]

​@@vulpix0rHe is real life slayer

[@GenderlessFurry_They-Them]

Absolute Ultimate Doom Slaying Legend

[@grencez]

He's a pretty cool guy and doesn't afraid of anything.

[@jarofapplesauce]

The even absoluter legend

[@1three7]

He should absolutely be on top imo. He's the only person to ever actually accomplish the goal of the category

[@Gooldenweek]

Zero Master being so good he disqualifies literally everyone else from the whole competition. Love it :D

[@nickcarter4006]

Talk about inflicting 100% pain!

[@JD_13]

Agreed! Its possible. Its not done via a glitch or exploit. Its a true 100% run, fulfilling the category requirements. Therefore, every single other player on the planet who attempted this run, as tough as it may be, should be deemed disqualified 😅

[@PutkisenSetä]

I would make a new category. UV Max True. Just to celebrate his achievement. I can't imagine they'll run out of bites and bytes if they pad out the roll a bit.

[@kevgmei]

Buddy is like the Usain Bolt of Doom

[@AdamKlein77]

That's always true till it isn't any more.

[@_KarlS]

it's impressive when you see the actual recording in the dark and realize how precise it all is

[@Lamp37820]

It looks like he took the last tick of damage to end the level in the same frame the imp dies.

[@Nitidus]

Absolutely incredible. I would have gotten so fucking sick of playing this level over and over again, especially if it's all for a last bit like this. Haha.

[@Jabler-]

@@Nitidus When the rest of the level is so simple, I'd assume one would just load from that point rather than doing the whole thing again and again until it's figured out. Especially considering he used a script to figure it out rather than just his own skills this time.

[@kveller555]

​@@Jabler-While I'm sure the script must've loaded the game from just before entering the teleporter every time, it still took him a ton of full manual attempts to get the perfect run. You _need_ to provide a demo file for a speedrun to be valid, and you can't load your game when recording one.

[@WillyKillya]

Sounded like a rabies-infected herd of cattle orgy in that last room

[@rustkitty]

Other speedgames already have MAX% speedrun category where you first sort by percentage, then by time. I think UV max can be seen as a MAX% category, it was just never relevant before this point. If they adopt this rule, the leaderboard will need an extra percentage column for the two tier sorting but that's about it. You can get the completion rates from the demo files. The advantage is that even if nobody ever will recreate this legendary feat, people can still compete for 2nd place with lower completion percentages so it won't become just a leaderboard of one.

[@johnnyw4life]

I came here to say the exact same thing and therefore will simply bump your post instead of starting another one. Respect, Legend. 👍🏻

[@ruolbu]

this exactly

[@MoiMagnus1er]

MAX% is not really a solution. Or more precisely, it still destroys the previous speedruns. Previous speedruns didn't aim at MAX%. They aimed at "100% except the last room", which is vastly different since you just need to kill ONE enemy in the last room to do better than a good chunk of the speedruns that didn't even tried to kill anyone. But I agree there should be a category split. Just not "MAX%".

[@swwordman]

​@@MoiMagnus1erfeel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that basically the same thing as an any% category when a new skip is discovered?

[@MoiMagnus1er]

@@swwordman Not fully. It also reorders the old speedruns. Take an old speedrun that was 63% and 59s. Suddenly, an even older speedrun of 1m30 but with 70% would rank higher.

[@Taystesouth]

It's amazing that for 30 years I imagined this room totally differently than how it is. I always imagined it MUCH larger and with more enemies.

[@ComaAlpha]

Go in with invincibility on and you'll see the true size of the room and all the enemies present.

[@reptar69]

IDDQD

[@quineloe]

@@reptar69 the room overrides IDDQD. You need to go in with IDBEHOLDV

[@Tier_NG]

@@ComaAlphaat least in the version I played, IDDQD gets turned off once you enter the room.

[@ComaAlpha]

@@Tier_NG iddqd?

[@RobbinRams]

I'm amazed! The only person who ever beat the level really

[@DieseltheWhiteTailedBuck]

what're you doing here?

[@rook8331]

It's times like these I'm sad theres only Demos of Doom SRs. Can you Imagine ZeroMaster flipping the Hell out when seeing the 100%, i wish i could have witnessed that :D

[@kruks]

They're not the only person to "beat" the level, they're the only ones to get 100% kills in the level. I thought that was made pretty clear in the video (you still go below 11% health whether killing everything or not).

[@michaelfetter5413]

ZeroMaster is a cheater, guaranteed. We already know he is capable of programming assists for Doom, and is very good at the game. He would be the one to cheat.

[@psikogeek]

*Level* ?????? Only person who ever beat the *game* . Man over game.

[@Hotsaucebauce3943]

I love how this level went from one of the easiest UVMAX runs to one of the hardest in theory

[@chefref5027]

Looks like everyone but Zeromaster needs to git gud

[@MichaTerajewicz]

Why in theory? In fact.

[@crazyluigi6664]

For 100% kills in that level.@@MichaTerajewicz

[@deonmiller9345]

It's happened once so it'll happen again now. Someone will get it without really trying now if there's an influx of people. Just the way it always seems to work now that we know its possible. This man is a legend.

[@Badministrator]

They could probably make up rules for a lot of levels that would make them easy. Fact is they were only just pretending to be running it on UV Max.

[@JustAskQuestions]

This room made my imagination go WILD as a kid. In my mind the room was huge and contained hundreds of demons. It's so fucking funny to see how little is actually in there years later. Here's another insane fact: this is the only area in the game that disables godmode; you can't be invulnerable in that room.

[@icewingsky]

You can if you activate a cheat code of the invulnerability sphere.

[@dmitriyg1030]

First time I was frightened in this room. And also when first time I was able to clean this room using cheat codes - all weapons, move through walls , enabling light - I also was so excited. And now legend did it without cheats! Great.

[@MrMortull]

It just exemplifies how limitations breed creativity. Between the pitch darkness and the hurt floor, you really do get the illusion of being battered from all sides by an insurmountable TIDE of enemies.

[@Alexsu1]

I remember as a kid trying to type the cheat code as fast as possible over and over when in this room, I don't remember exactly but it did seem to help to extend the time a bit xD

[@dmitriyg1030]

@@Alexsu1 now on modern source ports such as gzdoom one can stay alive in this room as long as he wants. Just type in console smth like "bind h "give health 999"" and then press h many times (when insufficient health).

[@retromegabitsegadude]

Sounds like Zero-Master should hold the record. Excellent video.

[@FalconFlyer75]

at the very least his record should be put in its own category 2 types of speed run 100% kill Speed Run and 66% Kill Speed Run

[@sfprivateer]

Agreed. He is the ONLY one in history to actually follow the rulebook... whether or not false assumptions caused everyone to do it wrong, it still does not remove the fact that one person did the impossible. Whether it kills the category or not, he should be put to #1 alone, forever if that's what it takes. Simply because of the recognition.

[@Guildmarm]

My take is add a subcategory if it's heavily based on chance. That being said, the prestige of 100% kills on that level is far more valuable imo than just a fast time.

[@meneldal]

They could also do stuff like 90% category and 95% to make more runs possible.

[@json_bourne3812]

A speedrun based on chance that requires you to have the skill AND consistency to complete? This is completely unheard of!

[@Brukernavnn]

Yeah there should be a new subcategory for less than 100%, that all the other players are moved into. He's the only one to do it properly.

[@Deadite8593]

His name definitely deserves to be at the top of the list. Not only that, but he deserves to be the only one on the list without an asterisk instead of the other way around. What an absolute legend indeed!

[@WillyKillya]

He should at least be co-leader, at the top of the page along with the fastest run... Having someone lower down on the leaderboard with an asterisk, denoting 100% kills, in a 100% kills category, just doesn't jibe with me

[@surinaam1186]

Yea just ruin the category forever because someone did a run that isn't feasible to recreate. Fuck the decades of records that went into optimizing the level and instead switch to an rng strategy that no one would ever willingly try to replicate! Man you people are intelligent.

[@haerfgvbag7050]

well said

[@ticklezcat5191]

I think it should work like how low% works for other games, the best percentage achieved going to the top, then sorting by time within that percentage.

[@WillyKillya]

@@surinaam1186 a new category can just be created, it doesn't have to get dramatic

[@RavenMobile]

He's without a doubt #1 -- nobody else achieved the goal of the run. Have a separate No-Final-Room category for the old runs, but he clearly wins it all!

[@Mikman360]

This explanation is amazing. To the untrained eye, he's just shooting blindly in the dark and it looks like he got lucky, when in reality it is a very precise and calculated strategy that he worked very hard at. Thanks for putting this into an easily understood format Karl, and congrats to Zero Master for nailing this nearly impossible challenge!

[@michaelold6695]

I feel he deserves to be at the top of the list as he completed the level in the true spirit of the category (100%) now that people know that it can be done, they will try to improve the times with 100%

[@SashaBlueMoon]

Agreed. UVMAX is 100% kills. Man got 100% kills.

[@click8708]

Agreed, it must suck for the others knowing the bar has suddenly been raised so high but that's the whole point of speedrunning, when some new strat, some new record is massively better than others its GOOD for the community. We cannot lower the bar just because what someone did was super hard, that's kinda the point in speedrunning... all top 100s on the leaderboards are doing things normal players will feel is unfair/unrealistic. But these dudes are like the Marcus Rashfords who just discovered a call called Messi exists.

[@Hackerhunter15]

Easy compromise; separate category...call it UVMAX Hardcore (no exceptions)

[@Charles.Wright]

"top"? No, he should be the only one on the list.

[@FoMScratch]

UVMax is called UVMax. It is not called UVSpeed. UVSpeed is a different category. I feel sorry for all the runners involved in this level for the last 30 years, but the cold hard truth is that only one man has ever completed a UVMax of E1M8.

[@generichuman2044]

How did I just know Zero Master would be mentioned. I'm not a speedrunner but his name comes up on every crazy and great achievement. You know you're one of the best to ever do it when people who know nothing about speedrunning still know your name

[@coolbrotherf127]

I'm convinced ZeroMaster just replaced his brain with the Doom source code. The amount of important things he's achieved is nothing short up legendary.

[@RealNovgorod]

If it runs on a calculator or a thermometer, it might run on a brain.

[@sexymuthafunka8240]

Brilliant comment!

[@TheWolfgangGrimmer]

@@RealNovgorod It doesn't, though. Just de-makes that don't look or play anything like the actual.EXE did.

[@ZorotheGallade]

Zero Master: "I have looked into 5,000 different runs." Speedrun community: "In how many of them is 100% kills possible?" Zero Master: "One."

[@madnut666]

He prolly had the script stop as soon as it hits 100%. Im sure he could have had it run for 50,000 runs and found 10 ways to do it.

[@ZorotheGallade]

@@madnut666 I know, it was the Avengers meme.

[@shockthetoast]

​@@madnut666except that none of the scripted runs hit 100%, one just came close enough that it was possible to finish it. He could have set it to stop when it found a strategy that left just one enemy alive, but it makes more sense that he would have aimed for the script to find a full solution. In which case the version presented in the video (he ran it 5000 times and then looked to see if any came close) makes the most sense.

[@erikaisadiah]

Don't get me wrong, I like learning about cheats situations and how the cheater was caught, but my favorite videos are these where we can just celebrate the ones who absolutely deserve it. Thanks for giving these absolute legends the attention they deserve!

[@kosmosyche]

Especially Zero Master. He is basically the legend of legends at this point.

[@TheGameLecturer]

YES. It feels like the channel is back!

[@Charles-mv7sv]

How do we know he didn't mod the room to have light? He may have cheated. Don't be such a simp.

[@kosmosyche]

@@Charles-mv7sv Lighting is not a problem in Doom. It doesn't have any purpose other than aesthetics. Of course he played with everything visible, including all the monsters in the room (you don't have to mod anything). If you think that nobody could 100% this level because of the darkness and it was the main issue, than... wow, I don't know what to say... lol I guess I can only recommend you watch this video again.

[@Charles-mv7sv]

@@kosmosyche what's your point? Modding light is allowed, I doubt it. Modding to highlight enemies is allowed, I doubt it? Why you simping?

[@HamperMonkey]

Absolutely insane that this game is still being optimized and new strategies are still coming out!

[@KurticeYZreacts]

Agreed

[@painless4785]

Well games older than this are still being optimized so why is this particularly insane?

[@dsandoval9396]

And at the same time the game is still being modded to run on lower and lower spec machines. I think the last one I heard was someone getting Doom to run on a pregnancy test. 😮

[@michealpersicko9531]

wasnt a pregnancy test just a rspc32 in a pregnancy test shell@@dsandoval9396

[@KurticeYZreacts]

@@painless4785 you dont understand demons at all bro...

[@zersch.]

He is the only one who has really beaten the level.

[@paegr]

Now he just has to beat John Romero in Deathmatch and he'll be the only person to have actually won the game

[@christofthedead]

credit should be distributed at a 5000:1 ratio, with the actual award going to the script & the millions of dead imps

[@zersch.]

@@christofthedead I'll meet you in the middle, we will honor the script but the dead imps get NOTHING!

[@kabongpope]

Yeah, agreed. He's the only 100% complete run

[@pacemaker9483]

@@paegr romero is at best low+/mid minus-tier in duels

[@relecor]

Fascinating video. Seems to me that since 100% is possible, make it a separate subcategory in the rankings. Keep the efforts from the past, and embrace the possibilities of future runs.

[@teal7652]

This is incredible. Honestly he should be ranked at first because yeah, 100% > time in a category specifically about 100 percenting levels

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

UV-Max is still about time, and you only need 66% to qualify for UV-Max on E1M8, it should just be divided up into UV-Max-66 and UV-Max-100.

[@TRENCHESandTREADS]

@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine That's silly, the 66 is an arbitrary addendum to the rules specifically because people thought it was a mathematical impossibility, now that it's proven to not be, the category should be made to follow the rules just like all the other maps. 100 or bust.

[@crazyluigi6664]

I thought it was Max-63, not Max-66.@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@TRENCHESandTREADS Do you notice how UV-MAX excludes going for 100% *items?* That's because nobody wants that shit dragging down runs, everyone agreed to that a very long time ago. There's already an inherent precedent for cutting the fat for speed in this category, and it's been that way since early on.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

@@crazyluigi6664 Right, but that's besides my point.

[@NathanGibb]

WAIT! But all speed runs are a game of chance!! This should definitely be the number 1 time on the leader board, as Zero kill EVERYTHING!! Absoutely insane!!

[@SamsarasArt]

I'm enjoying this frequent rate of content from Karl lately

[@vitoanania6042]

Especially we're living in the Golden Era, Billy Mitchell videos every week or two

[@yveltalsea]

Same, I can't get over how entertaining his videos are regardless of the topic.

[@alexbaughman9404]

I was just thinking that! We're eating good

[@p.b9085]

Funny thing is : His Billy Mitchell videos are funding his trial against Billy Mitchell.

[@LeNerdarto]

100%

[@skittybug6937]

I agree that the kills should be the most important. In Celeste, there used to be a "least deaths" category for 100% where if you got fewer deaths, you'd be above people with more deaths and faster times. 100% (and even the legendary 202 Berries) has been done deathless now, and I consider the person who did it deathless to be a better runner than the people who did it faster but slipped up somewhere, for this specific category.

[@Rationalific]

Amazing! In situations like these, I think it's best to split the rankings for that stage. 100% kills and non-100% kills (just with all killed before that room) so ZeroMaster gets his due, but the stage is also not ruined for others and those who played by the previous (laxer) rules can still have their runs count in that category. But yeah, ZeroMaster's run is now the most impressive of the bunch.

[@kabine1]

In the max kills category kill percentage is more important than time. All other speed runners up to this point decided to play a different category for this level because it's too hard/boring/RNG feeling. If someone gets 90% kills but takes over 3 minutes they should be placed 2nt until someone can do 90% faster or get 91+%

[@fabioriato]

Yes, and that should be the new standard for other similar cases, like 100% secrets in DOOM 2's map 15. Split the rankings and call it a day.

[@winebartender6653]

@@kabine1 I think you fail to realize that the leaderboard for this map ignore the last room, so all runs make no attempt at killing any monsters in the last room. It is a 'speedrun' first and foremost, where the requirements for the speedrun are the subcategories it is placed in. People are going to use the rules imposed on every run to maximize the time, so discrediting the previous runs for doing that doesn't make sense. As OP says, split off into a new leaderboard and, if it makes sense to, depreciate the old one, only allowing for full 100% kills.

[@yourmomsboyfriend3337]

Is this always true? If you look at categories like low%, if a new item gets skipped but it adds 30 hours to the run, that run is still 1st place.

[@yourmomsboyfriend3337]

@@winebartender6653You’re not considering actual “speedrun” categories like low%, where it is literally customary to do what @kabine1 said. In low%, if a new item gets skipped, even if it takes 30 hours, it’s the new first place. Because the whole point of the run is to get the smallest amount of items. In this speedrun, the whole point is to get the UV Max, if he’s the only one who actually did it, he should be first. Doesn’t matter if it sucks, doesn’t matter if it’s RNG, doesn’t matter if it adds 30 hours

[@mefikFS]

I remember that in some games strategies were considered "tas only" yet all it took was 1 or 2 madmans to implement them and now they are standard strats... I think even if its absolutly hardcore to get 100% kills ppl will learn and will do it :)

[@whompmaster]

I had things like this happen at Twin Galaxies where it might be good to just add a totally new category for the same speed run but with 100% kills. That way everybody is happy and nobody loses their spot.

[@alekz8580]

If it were up to me id split it into 63% category and 100% category

[@werdwerdus]

there's no way to ever make everyone happy. there's always going to be somebody throwing a bitch fit heh

[@asdergold1]

Wasn't it supposed to be 100%? There you have it. Fuck all the others. Fuck participation trophies.

[@solar901]

Of course Zero Master, the Doomguy himself, is the man to do this.

[@GiantMushrooms]

ZeroMaster is now the World Record holder. Damn impressive.

[@vyvianalcott1681]

He's also the only record holder

[@Taystesouth]

Yeah I mean there's no way they should be putting him down the rankings for this run due to the time. They need to make a new category and put all of the old records in it. Or just delete all the old records. He is now the only record holder, and if someone wants to take it from him, they need to do what he has done, faster.

[@beanburrito4405]

This is my headcanon lol

[@Rsconquest]

​@Taystesouth Based on time 100% first, after that lower % based on time.

[@GiantMushrooms]

@@Rsconquest Yep so ZeroMaster is first and now everyone has to beat their time. No one has actually done it before ZeroMaster and thus ZeroMaster has the fastest time for completion.

[@toyjesus]

He put in the work and deserves to be number one.

[@notchillstorm]

Agreed.

[@kristoffer8609]

He doesn't only deserve to be, he IS number one, no matter what the others say. Congrats on finally setting the actual record!

[@JimCheetham]

He should keep his current position on UV Max, because for E1M8 it's defined as excluding the final room. But there should now be a UV100 category for E1M8 - someone else might want to try, and be quicker :-) Good luck to them!

[@lukes9192]

This is definitely one of those cases where you'll always have a lot of people dissatisfied, but to me the obvious solution is to split this level into two categories. Make the perfect run an extension so that people aren't dissuaded from a category that has been successful and let the die hards chase the big one

[@Badministrator]

Now that someone got 100% it is clear to me that the others that should be dumped into another category that is not called UV Max. You could argue they always should have and this category should have just been empty the whole time. That's where the controversy/argument is here. This is not a "perfect run" it's a run that actually follows the correct ruleset where all the other runs are following an exception based ruleset.

[@lukes9192]

@@Badministrator reread the first line of my comment. Nobody is happy either way. But "any progress is a new definition of the category" is the idea that started all the controversy in odyssey low% because they don't want to wipe leaderboards and reorganize progress and all that stuff every time someone does something good. The category has had a name and a meaning for ages and has runners. This new run is more impressive, fits the goal better... And is properly ranked according to the rules of the category

[@mulhollandoverdrive]

@@Badministrator okay but there's plenty of maps in Doom that have had exceptions made for UV Max, usually because of secret sectors that are broken. Zero Master has even shown you can do Doom 2's MAP15 with all secrets by luring a pain elemental to the secret and use a lost soul to clip you downward. Even though he showed it's doable, Compet-N rules haven't changed.

[@HRRRRRDRRRRR]

Yeah no, the category exists to be 100%. The fact that the collective community ignored it and took the easy way out is on them. Put him at the top. You don't fork any% runs every time someone finds another cut out of fairness to the previous runners who were beat, you shuffle them down and say try again.

[@PPedroFernandes]

​@@HRRRRRDRRRRRthat's not the same thing at all. A new skip in any% is still any%, and doesn't require a rule set change. This does requires a rule set change.

[@TheDaggwood]

He should absolutely be listed as number one for getting 100% kills. I fondly remember playing that level, and was a perfectionist, but never even considered trying to get 100%.

[@Sillimant_]

there's no point in retroactively changing something like that and rendering thousands of runs void, it ruins the spirit of competition by putting a bar to entry so artificially high

[@thewiseoldfox]

Obviously the best answer is to make 2 separate speedrun categories for E1M8

[@HRRRRRDRRRRR]

​@@Sillimant_ "Artificially high" Yeah, I mean how dare 100% be a requirement for the 100% category... Geez I wish speed running attracted more normies.

[@ArcadiaCv]

Imagine trying to argue that doing 63% of something is the same as doing 100% If it was believed that only 14 of them could have been killed in the available time then they should have been killing 14, if there was only time to kill 13 than they should have been killing 13, etc... Skipping killing all of them in a 100% run just because "you can't get them all" was the mistake. Zero Master should hold the WR, and all 30 years of records should be stricken, it's not our fault they weren't even trying to kill them all, much less any of them.

[@thewiseoldfox]

@@ArcadiaCv it was possible to get 70% for E1M8, sometimes with luck more than that. However they deemed those enemies to be truly impossible for very logical reasons. Even then, we're talking about the last 30 years of records. Even if you disagree with what "all kills" actually means, it would be truly disgusting to just clean that slate and have the only record be Zero Master for perhaps the next several months

[@ohmygoditisspider7953]

Karl out here giving ZM the exact amount of respect the legend deserves.

[@pedropimenta896]

100%

[@Medabg88]

Unreal stuff. Pitch black screen. Basically 100% accuracy. I understand he tried it and failed numerous times, but the fact it has been done is nothing short of amazing. Hats down to you sir.

[@ryanmuller9497]

This definitely feels like a minimum percent type situation where the leaderboard should be ranked first by kill percentage, then secondarily by time. At the very least, then there's a whole lot of room for people to compete for second place seeing how high they can get their percentage, even if 100% feels out of reach for most.

[@johnpinneriv9958]

Agreed.

[@telinoz1975]

This is a perfect solution

[@Jane-qh2yd]

I know this comment is old, and idk if the rules have since changed. The main problem is that throughout the last 30 years, the main strategy was to ignore all the demons in the room. This quite literally means that the most talented speedrunners would have their times beat by a casual player that ended up shooting randomly in the room

[@sinteleon]

Except any value between 63 and 100 would essentially be rng for most people. The best solution would be to make 2 (or 3) seperate categories: game intended, max kills, and perhaps one separate for 100%

[@dyslexick]

*HE'S DONE IT AGAIN!!* The Master never disappoints.

[@Always-Hustle]

Master Billy Mitchell

[@Sleepyhead080808]

My friends, it just keeps happening

[@solidmentalgrace]

truly, the goat.

[@Endor2001]

Eventually it will be found out that he was cheating, just like after many other speedruns.

[@BerryFin]

@@Endor2001 ehhhh how so? how is this run proof of cheating in any way? All he did was test out if this was really possible and it worked. tf?

[@officialnucky]

I feel like we've been spoiled with Karl videos this past week. Hope this pace of uploads continues

[@nukewurld]

Thats how burnout happens

[@BullsEye3333]

Zero-Master deserves his own category. He calls it: "True UV-Max"

[@YOEL_44]

He should have his own personal cathegory, what a legend!!

[@leafgreensniper13]

Uv max max, or uv zero max

[@johnmarcus8864]

No, this record automatically invalidate all other attempts, it's 100% kill the requirment, then speed is second XD

[@aqualung2000]

I think splitting the category (just for that level) is the fairest solution. It gives proper respect to everyone involved.

[@Eira_99]

Yer, it’s called ‘UV max’ if it’s now unfun, then it’s unfun, but it’s actually doing it. Just let it be a unfun category that only some people go for.

[@kristoffer8609]

He's the only one who has completed the record legit, all other runs are invalid. If we're going to argue about "Unfun" then that goes against all logic. You can argue that using glitches in speedruns makes a game "unfun". Personally, I think so. But if that's what the run requires to be the fastest, that's what it is.

[@ZuFFuLuZ]

They need to create a new category. One for 100% and one for 66%. Those are clearly different runs, that are both impressive.

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

UV-Max-66 and UV-Max-100, that sounds appropriate.

[@Limon-cq5zu]

You make a great point, lets imagine a TAS for both categories, on the 100% category a TAS run would use perfect positioning and precision in order to manage to kill all the demons asap. Meanwhile a 66% category would focus on killing enough demons within the room to achieve 66% and then die as quickly as possible in order to achieve a faster time. The 100% run cannot be compared to all the other runs. Edit: I thought about it and both are luck based really, since the 66% run would also require some sharp and perfect positioning in order to avoid demon friendly fire and take all the damage yourself

[@cocoritosss8669]

I am not impressed by a mere 66% 😂

[@shaoronmd]

@@cocoritosss8669 Do you perhaps need 3% more?

[@LSGaming42066]

No the rule was agreed upon because everyone thought it was impossible but its been proven to be possible. Letting people get by on 66% is just like saying a minecraft speed run should stop as soon as u enter to fight the ender dragon.

[@ChaosDragon]

I firmly believe that because it is legitimately possible to achieve 100% kills, that it should now default him to rank 1 on the leaderboard. If they want to continue letting people submit runs without 100% they can compete for 2nd place(at least until somebody else achieves 100%).

[@pepe6666]

of all the 'man, he did the impossible, wow' speedruns ive seen - this one really does feel like the impossible was done. i had tried to survive that many times & man, its amazing to see it actually done.

[@squirlmy]

Good for you for seriously trying. A new king of record after 30 years is pretty amazing.

[@MrTheMasterX]

The build-up to the name reveal is just so satisfying even when you already know who it is.

[@jdmjesus6103]

I thought it was more of Carl's sarcasm, until he said zero master. Then I realised he was understating.

[@shavingrabbid]

Based pfp

[@SashaBlueMoon]

I was like "of course it's ZM" lol.

[@christophsiebert1213]

@MariaFlores-KAII Why shouldn't it?

[@SomeRandomGuyOutHere]

​@MariaFlores-KAIIShould add a "N" before the "SFW"

[@Starhammer4Billion]

Speedrunning left the Threshold of "Fun" a long time ago. He now owns this category! Move all the old speedruns to its own, new category, is what I would say.

[@KyzenEX]

For real though, speedrunning stopped being just a fun hobby and became a test of dedication of mastery a long time ago. It obviously can be both, but for runs of the 100% style, the "100%" should have priority over anything else even if it means that the run itself is overall less fun, which is, by itself, pretty subjective too.

[@moviemaker2011z]

@@KyzenEXagreed, look at the people who do dark souls hitless, do they look like they are having fun? when they do get hit or in any way damaged do they sound like its all fun in games or do they have this look and sound of despair? if they are so worried about the difficulty, i think they need to look at the fact this is all on UVMAX and not easy mode. zero master did what nobody else had the balls to do, they should give him the number one rank because he busted his ass to earn it and they have the audacity to say no when he accomplished every single requirement for the category?

[@-ragingpotato-937]

ZeroMaster is now the only one to have ever achieved a run of UVMAX, everyone else is UVALMOST

[@saitama741]

I think ranking based on kill % could make people try to kill as many demons as they can in the last room. that would be cool :)

[@thewhitetophat8965]

no it wouldnt, because its reliant on chance and a lot of runs. It would mean the timer (the basis of speedrunning) is essentially meaningless if you can't kill all the demons at the end. To be the best, You would have to not only get an incredible run, but then pray that you can pull off a 1/200 chance at the end to actually make it count.

[@vsevolodi.5373]

@@thewhitetophat8965 sounds like regular speedrunning to me

[@Gotmilk0112]

you think it would be cool because you're not the one having to grind a run that boils down entirely to RNG lmao

[@matthewsperry8463]

@@thewhitetophat8965This specific category focuses on percentage though. There is a separate and more popular one for just running through as fast as possible. There are tons of wr runs with more insane luck than this, that’s part of it

[@winebartender6653]

Just branch the level into two leaderboards and deprecate the old way. Since the rules allowed for the old way, it would be unfair to just replace those that followed the rules given to them. Everyone wins.

[@yogidemis8513]

There's always that one guy out there that turns the impossible possible. Dudemans a legend!!

[@EnaSong]

This Zero Master seems like a chill dude Also I do think ZM should be considered for 1st as it is a true completion of the category, however it shouldn't minimise the hundreds of hours gone into the decades of WRs achieved by other players. If I know anything about the community though, it's that now that there's a chance, competition will come.

[@TheShaKuh]

cool fact: That level also ignores IDDQD (cannot take damage cheat) - you can spam it over and over and it will heal you to 100% but you will still start taking damage instantly after it

[@3rdalbum]

Yeah, that's the way to consistently kill all the enemies at the end.

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

Specifically, this is a property of the damaging floor at the end; MAP11 of Plutonia "Hunted" also uses this floor and it disables IDDQD as well. Fun fact: They forgot to make this floor turn off the temporary invincibility from the one power-up, so IDBEHOLDV _does_ work to prevent damage.

[@Flickeralex]

​​@@LonelySpaceDetectivebut the cheats would be only available for personal use, since if you submit a cheated run in the DSDA website will get you banned

[@LonelySpaceDetective]

@@Flickeralex yeah, l was talking about specifically just casual play. I don't think cheats are even saved in demo files, anyway.

[@Flickeralex]

@@LonelySpaceDetective True. But the Doom community would be able to spot when someone tries to pass a cheated run as a legitimate one, still.

[@Black-Light]

To me this reminds me of the no hit Ninja Gaiden run, and I feel the same about this as I did about that. When it was thought to be impossible it made sense to have the exception but now we know it’s possible. You kinda have to accept that this is the true completion and the exception should be retired or moved to a separate category.

[@Pandasmasha]

Agreed, even if the previous runs aren't removed as technically being any% at this point... this run should, at least, be at the top of leader board.

[@cujoedaman]

I agree, they should split the two categories, simply because so many have done the run already without 100%, but are faster, but now we have 100% and slower time. Let everyone have their moment.

[@JudgeAnnibal]

@@cujoedamanThe fairest thing to do would be to "archive" the non-100% leadearboard, and then make the 100% the new UVMax requirement. So you don't throw away 30 years of runs, but you set a point in time where below-100% aren't the UVMax anymore, just a frozen in time stamp of who did well in the past.

[@GameSparkTV]

I appreciate a player who can dissect a level and solve a supposed impossible puzzle. Quite impressive. I’ve gotten close to 100 percent before but the way the enemies are placed in that tiny room it makes quite hard to do.

[@beholdr87]

If he is the first person to complete a true 100% Kill run, he should be ranked #1. In a category that is all about getting 100% Kills the fastest, now that it has been proven to be possible, all of the previous records should fall to the (Zero) Master :D

[@jag_rex2412]

Agreed it doesn't matter if others did faster runs, Zero master actually completed 100% were as the others didn't.

[@christianellegaard7120]

Maybe they could make a ranking with the kill percentage as a time modifier. So 100% gets his actual time and 63% gets time/0.63. If you include intermediate kill percentages, that would introduce a random element to the times, but it would also be influenced by the amount of health you go into the last room with.

[@BB72]

Yes.

[@KalmerVT]

@@christianellegaard7120 That's a great idea, that'd reward atleast trying in the last room as well

[@arboris]

@@christianellegaard7120 absolutely not. 100% or bust. otherwise it just a "any %"

[@dinodyno7363]

I'm super grateful that we're still getting content as good as this while also getting all the billy content. Must be alotta work! Thanks 😊

[@cerjmedia]

a new category should be made for sure. both have their own merit and deserve independent recognition

[@peopleperson9336]

There wouldn't be enough people seriously running it to give it its own category, plus there's no real timesaving options left in that small room. I think they should leave the rule as is, giving him the 100% footnote is a nice touch but they don't need to invalidate the incredible mechanical skills of the other runners just cause one guy found a cool technicality.

[@homystargunner]

​@@peopleperson9336 He's the first one to do a true 100% because he worked for it. I don't think that means everyone else is invalid, he's just the best now. Like how all WR work

[@dropthexd3277]

One guy found a cool technicality is way minimizing what he did. HE got 100% in the 100% category.

[@gblargg]

Right, new category. The current one isn't a 100% even if titled that. It only requires 63% before the final room. He did not beat the top people in the current category.

[@tigerofdoom]

​@@dropthexd3277UV Max is not the 100% category, nor is it the highest percent category. To put him at the top of the board would mean reorganizing the entire board. 64% kills is better than 63%. 65% is better than 64%, etc. Like how any greatest/lowest style boards work. But, historically, they haven't done that. Kills in that room don't count for anything in UV Max, so 80%, 90%, 100% has never affected the rankings. So, there's nothing to decide, it's already been talked about and solved for that category. If people want to compete on it, they can start a new UV100% category, and that could be cool. But you don't start a new category for every achievement. Speed runners create meme categories all the time, and we don't create new boards even if their stuff is cool unless it's going to turn into a competition. So, really cool achievement, will go down as a legend, but pragmatically doesn't affect the boards

[@HalcyonSerenade]

Even amidst all this Billy Mitchell fiasco, Karl still finds time to make other videos that have nothing to do with the drama and even uplift other people, like speedrunning record highlights. Absolute legend.

[@alexUKguy]

I remember being a kid in the 90s and getting to this level for the first time and not knowing if I was meant to survive or if it was even possible. Today that question was answered.

[@fernandofaria2872]

Same

[@Silentnightmare100]

If its a 100% kills, the 100% should be on top! Always loving the Doom content! 🎉

[@NeoHellPoet]

Yup, new table above the old one. When the new table gets big enough keep the top spot from the old table as a historical footnote, but the category is the category.

[@christianellegaard7120]

Maybe they could make a ranking with the kill percentage as a time modifier. So 100% gets his actual time and 63% gets time/0.63. If you include intermediate kill percentages, that would introduce a random element to the times, but it would also be influenced by the amount of health you go into the last room with.

[@Suthek]

@@christianellegaard7120 Or just as two separate metrics. Higher kill% goes first and between people with the same kill% the faster time wins. Also display the kill% on the table. I'm kinda surprised that it wasn't ruled like that in the first place even back then.

[@arboris]

Nope, 100% is 100%. Just because it is extremely hard to do doesnt matter

[@alaric_]

Exactly, *100% always at the top* and rest lower in speed order no matter what their time is. It's UVMAX-category for a reason, the "MAX" should take the precedence here as it has been proven to be possible. And the level is not even that long so speedrunning, with the end being based on luck, should not be a deal breaker.

[@JokinAround]

You should make a video covering Coincident's speedrun of Okuplok, considered to be the hardest doom level ever created, it took more than 11 years to beat with no deaths in a time of 5h 41m. It was considered absolutely impossible.

[@NateTheScot]

he already did a vid on that..

[@JokinAround]

@@NateTheScot What? I've been following his videos for a long time and he had no video with Okuplok, you are probably confusing it with Nuts.

[@kveller555]

I wouldn't complain if we get a video on that, but damn, it would a _ton_ of work.

[@KristianVirtanen]

I can only admire how much this game still means for so many. It is kind of fun to follow these Doom things.

[@squirlmy]

I remember when it first came out. I knew of no previous(none text only) games that could be played on a network, and I was taking g a networking course -Banyan Vines which had been bought by Novel, and ordinarily ran on DR-DOS, which Novell had also recently bought out. From a purely technical, rather than a gaming perspective, it was a massive accomplishment. I don't know how to compare it. It's as if people were still having fun driving around Ford's Model-Ts.

[@ThatOneGuy8305]

The fact that there's a set number of enemies means that I think it'd make sense to essentially do a tiered ranking where kill% takes first priority and time second. All 100% kill runs should be above all 98% kill runs and so forth but runs with the same kill% should be ranked on time.

[@GeorgeArthurJr]

This is probably my favorite thing ever now. I spent days as a kid getting to this level at this part and always being curious about this part of the level. I tried so many times seeing if I could outlast that final room, and never even came close. I used to try using IDDQD and hoping it would work but it never did. What an awesome feat. ZeroMaster is a GOD.

[@charlesswansonii9319]

I think what surprises me is that you covered this before the Doom analysis expert, our pumpkin headed beloved Decino, could. But if I had a nickel now for every time Zer0Master broke or set a new classic DOOM world record or milestone, I'd have at least five nickels within the last two years, I think? Holy shit, that's insane.

[@SHINSUSPECT01]

I think that there should be a special spot for the fact that he absolutely destroyed everything in that impossible room. He’s more than likely going to be a 1 of 1

[@MrMegaManFan]

You’re really banging out content lately Karl!! 👏

[@ArcanePath360]

Hearing that final shotgun blast and seeing 100% appear, then the heavy metal kick in gave me goose bumps. As if they game was saying "YOU DID IT. Finally. Someone beat me" It must have felt so amazing to be the one to achieve this and it deserves far more credit. It should be no1 IMO. Luck or not, it showed dedication, ingenuity and facts are facts, numbers are numbers. He proved them all wrong. I would not be happy to be far down the list when rules were followed and a caveat has been proven to be wrong.

[@fluffyninja3467]

This man really did warp the whole way the game was supposed to be speedran by being so good. A true legend all and all

[@PatrickvonMassow]

Zero Master: "If I have to die in this room, I'm going to take all of you down with me - even if it's the last thing I'll ever do!"

[@VGPorage]

I generally think in cases like this that how well you perform specific task of the category should be predominant over the time at the end.

[@thewhitefalcon8539]

This isn't a "how good" category. You're supposed to kill 100% of the monsters or your time doesn't count at all. In this level in this category you have to kill 100% of the monsters before the ending and I think that's totally fine to keep the same spirit as in other levels.

[@EMTgamer]

He should be #1 - every other room requires 100% completion, this one can be done, it now must be done

[@The512Dude]

I knew it had to be Zero Master before I clicked. What a legend.

[@DystopianOverture]

This guy decided to he wanted to do what no else tried to do. Heck he started a new category and deserves serious recognition for this feat. And if he doesn't get the recognition he deserves I'm going to be fuming.

[@TeaBeca]

They need to do a new category i think, just for this level. Just for who can get 100% kills the fastest. Since it's alot of chance and not very fun, just the ones that really want to grind this level can have their own list. Great video and i love seeing this new breakthroughs!

[@MoneyManHolmes]

Split the page into 2 tabs. 1 for 100% kills, 1 for excluding final room. The default landing tab should be the 100% though! Like most speed runs, this one will probably get to where several people can do it somewhat regularly. A lot of old timers will probably fire up their Doom files to give this new strat a try.

[@hannahmendralla5577]

3 videos in 3 days? Karl, you absolute legend, you’re spoiling us

[@Sterl500]

The leaderboards should probably default to a "True Hundo" category where he'll likely be the only name there. That solves two birds with one stone, recognition while making it the first thing that pops up in the category. His achievement should absolutely be recognized, and I feel like a little sub-note oh his time is a disservice and a slap in the face given how the category is intended to work.

[@RooftopRose079]

I agree with this. It gives him the recognition of achieving something new and opens up the possibility for more runners to attempt it. The sub-note indeed feels like an underwhelming well...sub-note on something that should be more substantial.

[@BodywiseMustard]

Love that Doom uses those demo files, so you could show us ZeroMaster's 100% without the darkness.

[@ThePulmentinum]

The first 30 seconds serve as a big "I'm not trapped with you, you are trapped with me" warning to all demons

[@Gamer3427]

The fact that before it wasn't already considered a "most percentage" feels odd to me, since even if 100% wasn't achievable, the enemies in that final room do still count towards the score, and killing everything is the point of the category. If anything I'd say that particular leaderboard should be reworked to be listed by percentage killed first, and time second. It'd probably be a ton of work to redo that with existing runs though, so the best route might be to put all the existing runs into a "legacy" category, and make the main one follow this format. If someone wanted to submit their old run again, they could do so themselves with the moderators looking at both the percentage and time then.

[@json_bourne3812]

Yeah it's kind of wild that the reaction to: "wow it seems like that end room is impossible" was "ignore it completely" rather than "see how close you can get". We might've actually seen a 100% completion before this year if the category had always encouraged getting as high % as possible.

[@Minefield666]

I really love these deep dives on individual accomplishments. Keep up the good work Karl!

[@dimastyrkas]

“I went forward to the future to see all possible outcomes of the coming conflict” “How many did you see?” “5,000” “In how many do we win?” “One”

[@Vanessomatic]

Love it when Karl pumps out vids as fast as he has been lately

[@ReaperX7]

He's done the impossible. He deserves #1.

[@zfilms4858]

ZeroMaster basically is "I'm not trapped in a room full of demons, you are all trapped in here with ME!"

[@tomoyukisaito5275]

I'll be honest. The level has existed for how God damn long? The speed running community has existed for how long with this level? It's all about adapting and improving. Slower strategies in the past has changed the way we do runs. This is a speed run that is about 100%. This has been the only LEGIT 100%. He deserves to be at top regardless of speed Because he's the only one that's done it.

[@selfgaming1456]

I think they should have a separate category for true 100% even if it’s just him for a while. Or maybe there’s the normal list and his is pinned separately above it

[@PrinceOfMadness]

Just means he gets all the glory he deserves

[@amak1131]

That's what I'm thinking. This feat is very difficult so I see no harm in keeping the existing rule, but those who can get a true 100% deserve to be recognized.

[@eyedam]

There will always be another.

[@dantoween6474]

This guy deserves to have his own list 😂

[@pwnsh4rk6]

Technically that category is for 100% and theyve been ignoring it since it seemed impossible

[@ZeroNeedsCoffee]

ZEROMASTER IS THE GOATTTT

[@SaarN1337]

Zero Master is such a gift to the Doom community, I initially thought this was a reupload of his previous finding with the pain elemental push that triggers the secret. Glad I was wrong

[@Psychedelia-Horror]

Remember spending hrs on end trying anything against the hell pit as a kid, makes me feel like all that time wasn't in vain seeing zero accomplish it 30 yrs later

[@WaveChallenge]

This guy is absolutely insane. Giant kudos for this, Zero

[@JeefWiggo]

Thanks for all these superb vids Karl. Such easy and informative viewing. Bravo

[@KyzenEX]

Personally I think that this run should be the new gold standard. RNG shouldn't be an argument against giving 100% runs priority because many, many other 100%-type runs in other games deal with such stuff. This run deserves the #1 spot, as it is the first true 100% on a category in which, as you said, everyone became complacent and never checked for over 30 years.

[@eddiemate]

I think the only reason RNG was mentioned is because it takes luck to get that 100%, and some people just don't wanna grind RNG runs. But this should absolutely be higher on the leaderboards. Runs like these in other communities always prefer the % over time. The only argument I can see against ordering it like this is that someone might play worse than other players but get more kills in the ending, and thus be seen as "better"

[@philipberggren1823]

100% that run should be #1

[@christianellegaard7120]

Maybe they could make a ranking with the kill percentage as a time modifier. So 100% gets his actual time and 63% gets time/0.63. If you include intermediate kill percentages, that would introduce a random element to the times, but it would also be influenced by the amount of health you go into the last room with.

[@moviemaker2011z]

@@eddiemateall speed runs are RNG. there is never in the history of doom a predictable and always same run that can be repeated over and over again. every single run is RNG and if this particular RNG is being ignored then anyone can post a run, call it a world record and just say "i didnt want to fight RNG so im ignoring the steps that would require me to grind". this is how communities fall apart.

[@haroldbalzac6336]

@@christianellegaard7120 Bro, you are in every thread copy/pasting the same comment.

[@gcl2783]

New category: Get Wrecked, Demons. One contender, Zero Master, and zero demons or anyone else left standing in the category.

[@i_am_ergo]

Karl, you have been machingegunning these out in the past couple of weeks, and I couldn't be happier. But I do hope you're getting at least a decent amount of sleep and enough time to spend with your family. Take care, brother.

[@jonj1163]

As knowledgeable as Karl is, I'm surprised he said that at the end. If they did that, the level would not be ruined. What would happen is some other guy in his moms basement would work hard and perhaps one day beat even Zer0Master. There is a psychology of once the impossible is done, more competition can happen. It's a phenomenon.

[@meggillespie2255]

i love anytime something in the OG Doom was deemed impossible, Zero Master finds a way to make it possible

[@eriklarson9137]

How many times has he done this? Why didn't Karl mention any other times?

[@Batmann_]

I think ZeroMaster is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills demons and doesn't afraid of anything.