Incline Shooting - Why the 'Rifleman's Rule' DOESN'T WORK! [Random Hunts, Vol. 11]

[@BeefaloBart]

I have been using the SWAG method of aiming for years and had good luck thus far. (SWAG - scientific wild ass guess)

[@MAAAH1581]

😂😂😂😂😂😂alot of guys do

[@leeloosaasindustries2295]

Are U succesful?

[@joseglenn4435]

S.W.A.G. is king and Kentucky Windage I am from Kentucky,

[@robingibson7503]

Kentucky windage here. don't waste a second on calcs.

[@AirGunnerSA]

Very nice Matt really informative i would like to see a video of your setup and how you use it to calculate all the stuff when out in the field. Good stuff man

[@timstrack5015]

I am a math major/teacher. I loved your explanation and am getting the book. Best of luck and health!

[@josidasilva5515]

Elementary: Subtract the cosine of your weapon's angle of incline from the cosine of the bullet trajectory at zero incline and known distance, if negative, hold under; then shoot some twenty rounds, take note of the delta, use that information and forget about trigonometry.

[@o8ko8k]

See all the corn flying out of that dove? 4:20 heee

[@o8ko8k]

looking forward to the next videos with the scopes you guys have been working on. thanks Matt!

[@johanswart8116]

First pigeon . Hold on what happend there. I was like . Your pallet smashed a hole thru the pigeon and the roof . Lol

[@psguardian]

pretty lead paint lol.

[@airwavepaul]

1:44 Oh dear 😱

[@RadDadisRad]

That’s not a roof per say but a concrete cap. And yes he took a piece out of the ledge of it. Not a big deal considering acid rain does way worse.

[@johnfiore9390]

Watch lots of your videos. But man. Iv got to use mathematics.. not for me.. I just put a target up a tree that was 20 yards up and I was 50 yards away and it was 1 to 1. 1/2 mil under. Want to see a video doing it that way would be great

[@johanswart8116]

@@RadDadisRad 1:34 he hits the asbestos roof a solid hole behind the pigeon. Later he hit the concrete also

[@skywagon185guy]

Matt, as usual, a very detailed lesson; compensation for shooting angle. I learned a lot. Please do an up to date video detailing your scope camera setup. Part numbers, specific models, lens, adapters, etc. Limited info seems cover the GoPro, but not the other, very worthy, lower cost cameras. Thx...

[@russellfleet7636]

My answer to the long shots or the incline shots is the sig kello 2400 it has worked for airguns or center fire I have used it out to 1900 yards with the 338 lapua. And over 300 yards with airguns.

[@davep6286]

As these slugs have moved the air rifle sport on, shot on live quarry, should not come down to guess work.There is no substitute to trigger/range work. Stay safe 👍🇬🇧

[@je8422377]

The challenge is making all these calculations before your quarry flies away!

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

For sure! Not easy! What I do is I stay in one position and pre-calculate for different parts of the roof so that I can shoot right away when they land.

[@robingibson7503]

Kentucky windage. i use a telephone pole to see exactly where my hits are at different ranges and heights on the pole.

[@biakmawia]

I pree culculate something like 50m 40°/45/50/55° etc before then I simple memorize in different distance I'm going to shoot we only shoot short range like 20-70max it's easy to memorize 😊

[@sonamor1]

A beautifully simplified explanation. Thank you Matt

[@racegts]

Matt! WOW!!! Thanks again for a great video! As a competitor in PRS & F-Class matches I have been aware of Bryan Litz and his SHEER GENIUS in the world of ballistics; in fact when I first learned of how "ballistic" the PCP airgun world had become, HE was the 1st person I though of contacting about his foray into this area. As also wondering when precision bullet manufacturers such as LAPUA, BERGER, SIERRA etc would also start producing more accurate slugs for PCPs. Just a simple question in regards to this video; at 5:09 you list your ballistic table for this particular gun and slug, did you do any downrange testing to confirm these numbers?? STRELOK PRO has a great tool in their software for correcting the actual POI vs its calculation as I am sure you are aware, but for those reading this comment, I can attest to BOTH STRELOK and APPLIED BALLISTICS programs as being EXCELLENT tools for shooters. Thanks again for these great videos, keep up the great work!

[@tiredoftheexpected8661]

Another way to put it is that when you shoot upwards, the velocity of your projectile can be decomposed in horizontal and vertical initial velocities . The vertical velocity counters the effect of gravity and reduces the drop.

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

Yes, but to a very small extent... if you shoot at for example 60 degrees upwards and 60 degrees downwards the POI will be very similar.

[@ColoradoAirgunner]

I don't do math. That's why I use the applied ballistics with the Kestrel 5700 and the BDX Kilo 2400. It's never wrong. Great educational video!

[@slappy0079]

Your knowledge of ecology and riflemanship is always impressive. It seems that the guys who really get the science better than anyone, are air gunners.

[@michaeleber4752]

It is a lot like reading the wind with a .22 rifle to prep for using a 260 Remington. You learn a ton more due to the sensitivity of the bullet at 100 yards.

[@kmattar]

Gravity (9.8 m/s2) is impacted by time (not distance). At steep angles like 60 degrees the line of sight is markedly longer (double) than the horizontal distance, significantly affecting the trajectory because the TIME to target is twice as long, where gravity’s effect is exponential. I was hoping the video would explain this clearly. I will watch it again but essential I think a ballistic calculator takes into account all these variables, ballistic coefficient providing the time to target depending on angle and distance to accurately calculate the impact of gravity.

[@GreenOddish]

Unless I'm mistaken the guttering and roofing that the birds were sitting on looked like asbestos. Even if it's not I'm curious to know what are the rules of shooting around asbestos?

[@davidclulee3992]

Hi mat could you make a back to basics hunting video were you use a springer and basic ammo to give us beginner air gun hunters some tips

[@sadamhussain6269]

Thanks bro, the video is really informative, Please make a video on sight picture and sight alignment which covers different target ranges.

[@larciereZS]

So what is the horizontal distance in relation to this angle calculation if it is not 30m? It appears you have to set your scope distance to about 45m according to your ballistic table?

[@paulerhard1252]

Another way of explaining the discrepancy between the COS-rule (i.e.) horizontal distance determines hold-over or -under, is by stating that although the projectile only drops during the horizontally part of its trajectory; i.e. total distance x COS (gravity only works on that part of the trajectory), the projectile DOES actually travel the WHOLE distance!!! Ipso facto, the projectile is subject to air-resistance over the complete trajectory, not only the horizontal part... I was taught that the “Hunters-rule” is a mere “Rule-of-thumb,” which it naturally only is. At the extremes, say a vertical shot up or down, COS x distance to target would, theoretically, be zero. Anyone that has had the chance and privilege to hunt Chamois in the Swiss Alps probably knows this from dire experience. Near vertical shots down do present themselves during those hunts! Figuring out the POA when ZERO meters of gravity applies to a shot is extremely difficult... There is no “chance” for gravity to bend the bullet trajectory down from the initial upward trajectory.... To add insult to injury, in case of a vertical shot there is no more “upward” or “downward.” The bullet simply continues traveling in the “+” direction of the scope... A miss is almost always the result, albeit for the most experienced hunters.

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

Good insight, thanks for the comment!

[@paulerhard1252]

@AirArmsHuntingSA: Glad I could help out a bit! By the way, I just missed you guys at Krale’s by a day or so. Would have been very honored to shake your hand... :-)

[@syedirfanahmad9626]

Who on earth would read a book on inclination adjustment? 🙄🤔 You are too damn crazy about preciseness and theory. And ... that's the reason SO MANY people like and follow you. Just keep your crazyness going...❤️

[@rosscanner1977]

Thanks for the info Matt. This happens also on a steep decline target the bullet just sometimes 1mill or 1.5mills on target.

[@drelipe340]

So you were at 60 mts slant range from the bird at an angle of 60 deg ? so you were 30 mts horizontally from it ...have you tried to find out the difference in compensation between these two distances , probably is something around 6/7 units or 1,5/1,175 dots below .....

[@eshaalr3109]

Sir tell me which is the best rifle long range powerful and beautiful design please Which one should I buy?

[@LuluBear974]

Nice explanation! What software do you use to print these graphs?

[@rodrigo1000r]

I am your fan I am brazilian here air guns are very expensive but I will get a good gun to practice because i love it! Much health and peace my friend

[@2adamast]

The time doesn't change much, only the force, hence correcting the drop (constant time, smaller force)

[@peteralexben]

i would take a few practice shots at the site to see the change of impact.

[@dirkvanheerden2697]

Nice video Matt, enjoyed it a lot! Quite a far cry from shooting coins and disprins in your back yard, you have progressed very well in this sport! Where can we watch those old videos of yours, are they still available somewhere?

[@alexeyk4462]

What is the caliber(mm) of your rifle?

[@mikestone9129]

Great information. A little to technical for my old age brain, but it helps a lot.

[@asepdapoer7730]

connoisseurs of your hunting videos greetings from Indonesia🇲🇨

[@sniperbudakleuweung6764]

Om itu ngomongin apaan yaaa,,😁😁🙏

[@ashleyt198777]

Anyone else notice the clop of the 1st shot. It went through the bird then through the roof behind it.

[@alastairseggie]

Matt, What ballistics software did you use to plot those Trajectories on the 1cm x 1cm blocks?

[@charlesludwig9173]

Gee this is how to do it: download a co-sign chart for slope angles then multiply the cosign for angle times line of sight distance.

[@zamanhassan2704]

Tq mate for the good sharing ..math and physic are applied for the accuracy..

[@joeyfren1748]

Question: you keep referring to your distance (range) was 60meter. Is that horizontal or distance up to target? Thanks great video

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

That is direct distance to target

[@DinoNucci]

@@AirArmsHuntingSA wait ... If you know your direct distance, there's no additional calculations needed

[@ce-brasilshooter8295]

Hi Matt. I have tryed with my configuration (of my carbine). It doesn't works. Just exceptionally to your exemple. I have tryed with app Chairgun. You can try with pellets and to resolve several exemples and yout will see that almost all it doesn't works. Please, do it and discover what is the problem for us. 1000 Likes.

[@kirkbrode]

Another excellent video Matt. What ballistics calculator did you use to produce the graphs in the video? Is it the Applied Ballistics app?

[@wartyhail]

Hi Matt, @ a pre primary school in town, we have a pigeon investation right above a sand pit. The kids are currently denied access to the sandpit due to the pigeon feces. How can we humanely handle this situation. Thanks!

[@jonhewitt3]

Learnt a lot, now have a better understanding of the equipment you use

[@peerzadefakhruddin6809]

sir may gun is ziro at 20 meters and if lshoot at 35 degrees at 10 meter wher will the gun hit may gun gives 650 fps with the pellet luse

[@maxwagner4586]

Hi Matt! You put in the direct distance and the incline angle into the ballistic calculator, not the horizontal distance, right? Thanks

[@shootnpost7954]

Great work Matt!!!

[@petrpetrov1265]

It’s always a big question for me how far a bullet will fly if I miss and what energy at the end.I think behind the building could be some people. May your thick book can explain this question?

[@davidjesse8689]

"Gravity not acting perpendicular when shooting at an incline"? ...wow Matt... is this the new physics here now?

[@TheArtofBoxing101]

Matt eating GOOD during this pandemic 😂

[@dirktaljaardt8591]

Hi Matt. Is that calculation valid for all angles or just a sertain range of angles?

[@6768lee]

Hi matt can you tell me what grain jsb do fx use to tune the impact before sending it out for sale I'm just curious I've just got an impact and I've put jsb 25.39 pellets in it and on factory settings before I've changed a thing the chronograph had it shooting 826 to 830 consistently so I was curious as to the weight they use? Thanks lee

[@MAAAH1581]

very informative video i am thinking while we’re all in home why don’t you make a video about the sig saur and castrol pleasaaaaase 😁

[@shawnp3901]

When are you building a ballistics calc into the Element scopes? Hehe

[@italomateus311]

Good afternoon, I live in Brazil, I really want to have a pcp like this, could you tell me what the value of this is? Thank you. Congratulations on the channel. 

[@billyhollis5738]

Italo Mateus , about $2000 for the impact and $1600 for the crown. U.S dollars

[@FunwithLegendlol]

Is this happened in short range like 20 yard 15 yard ??

[@willybee3056]

Great job, yet again... Thank you Sir...

[@IMPACTSHOOTING]

Very good vid Matt!

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

Thanks Piet!

[@kothliim6429]

Same thing I had to put into effect on a deer a few years back. 15' high, 20' out. Aimed at the knee, punched it in the heart.

[@larrycollar1322]

Very useful and appropriate discussion. Thank you.

[@stevenpritchard3519]

Yo, what scope and mag are you using?

[@andrew13651]

Interesting information. Thank you!

[@MrRockstar1968]

Well that was a complete head-mash and explains why I missed so many rabbits the other week, which were all on inclines. Also didn't help that it was also 20mph winds.

[@milesm1465]

Surely the main reason the Rifleman's formula is not working is because you are trying to use the simplified version based on small angle assumptions at anything but small angles?

[@xy200stii5]

you sound like a real smartass

[@ShahidKhan-zp1ru]

Awesome explanation

[@w.harrison7277]

Gravity is approximated as always down for an air gun but not for an ELR shooter. Earth's surface drops 8 inches per mile, on a 3 mile shot that's two feet of drop. The force of gravity is straight down where you are standing but that line is not parallel with the direction of gravity if you're standing three miles away. In other words, if you're rifle is 1.5 feet above a still lake and you're shooting at a target 1.5 feet above the lake but 3 miles away you won't be able to see the target bullseye. And the direction of gravity varies as you traverse the trajectory.

[@derrickmitchell39dm]

Need a little help here. I am setting up my scope torrents with tape using the Strilok app. I watched the video you did and I am confused on how to do the clicks. Help! Thanks.😃

[@stefanic88]

I read somewhere that this rule works only for slight incline angles (not more than 30°)

[@TedsHoldOver]

Most use 45 degrees (agree 30 is better). Past 45 - "rules" break down quickly.

[@stefanic88]

@@TedsHoldOver airgun king replied to my comment, what an honor :)

[@davidrouth9901]

Nice one Matt - seriously well thought out as usual!

[@AnwarAli-to2dt]

Hi matt duber i have one qustion i am use cricket calber .22 i am use strelok pro but the feaild my scop tap working 100% but horezintal after 75 meter i strugal so give some idia

[@SnowblindOtter]

What about other ballistic calculator apps like Hawke's ChairGun? I use that and I haven't had any bad luck with it yet.

[@alfreddemaio9725]

Hey mate good video learnt something but is there a app that is free And good for the average person

[@matthewkloep8391]

Gravity just affects the y/ z portion of the force. Air resistance many affects the x part of the force

[@jonellis1680]

Matt, could you consider doing a video on how you set up your range finder and kestrel; I have both, but my kestrel doesn't like airgun velocity and ranges. If you've already done one, a quick.link would be appreciated. Thx

[@jonellis1680]

Addendum: where do you build you profile, in the BDX app, or the Kestrel app?

[@rickoshea8138]

Good to know the ballistics calculator is correct. Here are some conventional and unconventional factors that may play a part: As a first order calculation of bullet drop, horizontal distance matters. For air resistance, actual flight path distance matters. This is greater when shooting up or down a slope. Also, when shooting up or down at a steep angle, the projectile speed will drop faster or slower due to the change in gravitational potential energy. These effects are magnified as you approach a significant percentage of the maximum range the projectile can travel. As the extent of the gravity related velocity decay adjustment is affected by an integral of projectile velocity over range, the latter effect needs to be taken into account for long range airguns - as they are generally subsonic at the muzzle. Not so much for centerfire rifles, when shooting at similar 100 to 150 meter distances; because their maximum range is so much further. The more loopy the trajectory, the more it is distorted by gravity. If you shoot vertically downwards, no drop compensation is required. If you shoot vertically upwards, drop compensation in the form a robust helmet is a must :). Better not try the the latter at all...

[@pllagunos]

If you shoot at 90 degrees upwards, wouldn’t the projectile velocity when it hits ground be its terminal velocity? Assuming a lead pellet, that shouldn’t translate to many ft lbs I would imagine, but I may be wrong

[@smokedbrisket3033]

Well said. With most center fire rifles at "normal" hunting distances, even at very steep angles, wind resistance effect on the calculation isn't necessary. If I were a sniper with a 338 Lapua engaging a target from 1800 yards and a 30º elevation, wind resistance over the distance of the flight path would have to be part of the calculus.

[@rickoshea8138]

@@pllagunos Yes, terminal velocity. With a light airgun pellet, that won't break your skin. With a high BC projectile, it could make you bleed...

[@andersongomes4069]

Good explanation ,i am from Brazil.

[@geraldfronda6241]

Hey Matt, you havent made a new hunting video.. when can I watch a good video again.

[@Jason-Smith1]

Great work, Matt

[@johanwiese8665]

maybe i have missed it, but when will these scopes be available in South Africa?

[@C7HunterID]

Thank you master..

[@pcpgiaitri5258]

You let me ask when the shot from the bottom to the top and from the top to the low line has changed a lot

[@josephfast5887]

Is this footage in yukon Oklahoma??

[@রহস্যজনকঘটনা-প৮ঠ]

I'm a big fan of you, I watch every video of you

[@geogeo9574]

Excellent explanation. Sir please make review video of leupold scope VX III of 1click =1/2 Min

[@topchasse4433]

hi for you which calibe is the best for you no1 or no2 ??

[@ironair67]

You should let Sig Sauer know that their AMR feature in the rangefinder is wrong. Unless I am misinterpreting what they say it is for.

[@HJPreen]

Hi Matt. Great video. Quick question. Im also looking for the hardcovers of Brains books. Is there a local source. Shipping from US is a killer

[@davep6286]

Hilton Preen: may help if mate or you could find the international book Number, then put that into IBN search. Just a thought, say safe 👍🇬🇧

[@chaleebuasri3576]

What scope cam application are you using with your go-pro or phone?

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

I don’t use any apps, I just record and then save the files to my PC👍🏻

[@fathifathi490]

so tell which angel i can apply the rifleman rule???

[@hocoetzee5134]

Hi I am also from south Africa and I would like to get an air gun like yours could you please help me with which store etc

[@gerhardpotgieter9091]

Baie interesant! Ek het al presies ervaar wat jy hier verduidelik, nou sien ek die wiskunde daar agter.. Nice job Matt!!👍

[@alexandi570]

Gak di ragukan lagi produknya mr.bagus banget akurasinya

[@mickibbett2120]

Thanks Matt. Great information

[@chrisfigueroa3361]

Thanks for the info Matt

[@hotchihuahua1546]

Hey , Mr. Pigeon , hold my beer while I figure out my angle of attack ! 😁 In hunting deer out of a tree stand with compound bows we had to practice our shots 16 feet up with different angle shots and distances , this to get familiar with the change in impact on a 3D moving target . They do offer a range finder for this but In most cases I never have time to use it .

[@brahimdehri3909]

Valuable information, thank you for your effort

[@ma799in]

Great job bossss. Thanks alot 🤩💖💓❤️

[@ezequiel7385]

Hola...amigo cuando vas a grabar videos en español😓 creo que estamos muchos hispanos...Gracias

[@JDG506]

Strelok pro incorporates an "inclinometer" (?) Does it also uses this concept in its calculation?

[@AirArmsHuntingSA]

Yes, Strelok is very good and will calculate it correctly.

[@JawadKhan-zs3it]

Very very good video

[@mikerotch6733]

I need a range finder 😂 i thought something was wrong lol

[@DEM925]

🤣🤣🤣 you are not alone