Tywin Lannister: a character study - livestream with Order of the Green Hand

Who is the real Tywin Lannister? What drove him and what was he trying to achieve?
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[@justineharper3346]

Tywin was a badass. The scene when he puts Joffrey to bed was one of my favorites in the book and show

[@FishBoneD14]

In a feudal society plenty of people would marry Tyrion once he was heir. Tywin likely did not try due to resentment.

[@MphoLukoto-lx9jk]

But he made him lord of Winterfell by marrying him to Sansa

[@James-dn8dh]

I have more respect for Tywin than anybody else in GoT/ASOIAF. If i had to choose a mentor in life it would be Tywin, if I had to choose a Father, it would be Ned lol

[@malkavil]

no way i would like to have either of em as father or mentor, it would be a nightmare for me. Being born in the martell or tyrel are the only options for me.

[@chippersonsencyclopediaemp1318]

@@malkavil as a homosexual?

[@lxfj2128]

@@chippersonsencyclopediaemp1318 facts

[@chyawanprash]

I would love Davos to be my father

[@jasonvazquez8652]

What about Ned Stark?

[@donkeydarko77]

Discovered your channel about a week ago, and I'm hooked. Love your presentation. Thanks for providing so much content.

[@the4thamigo]

He's by far the best asoiaf channel out there in my opinion. Secrets of the citadel is great too though.

[@InDeepGeek]

donkeydarko77 - Thank you so much, and welcome!

[@MrStoitchkov8]

He's becoming one of my favorites very quickly.

[@TXALTHAUS]

Tywin is my all time favorite character ever!

[@stirmeister26]

No way! Awesome to see you collaborating with OTGH. I love their channel as well

[@josegodoy8461]

YESSSSS!!! Order of the Green Hand!!! my two favorite Game of Throne authorities!!!!

[@the4thamigo]

Brilliant back and forth guys my only point would b that tywin didn't give the rains any chance at all he brilliantly manipulated the situation to make them do exactly what he wanted in order to make an example that others would literally tremble when considering crossing house lanister. Tywin is by far my favourite character in asoiaf.

[@MrTaylorAries]

If they had taken the time to think that through it would have saved their lives and namesake ....the naive can be manipulated and they were disrespectful on top of being naive..you can’t be in debt to someone and n bet pay in that world...it makes both look bad. Tywin is the necessary evil and the tarbecks and reigns just played their role of example

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

How did he not leave them choice?

[@the4thamigo]

@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 because he didn't. What choice did u think they had

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

@@the4thamigo to pay back or to send a hostage, like everyone else. i mean it says so in the book?

[@the4thamigo]

@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 yeh I know but ur missing my point about how he manipulated them. That's what I'm getting at he offered them an out yes but as with any good chess player he was several moves ahead of them and what inevitably happened was, well it was inevitable 🤷‍♂️ lol. He was never headed in any other direction than thier complete annihilation . They were never going to pay back the debt nor were they going to send hostages and that was all part of his plan. But ur not wrong they could have circumvented his plans by doing the exact thing he asked but let's b honest, that would b a really shit story 🤔

[@liverdave1977]

Tywin is one of my favourite characters in the books and tv show! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@jjackflash8907]

3 amazing voices on 1 stream, wow. Fan of you guys. Extensive knowledge of the subject matter is off the wall!!!!

[@johndaly5268]

I absolutely love OFTGH. I find it difficult to enjoy some of the other ASOIAF channels, but I'm really starting to like In Deep Geek. The traveling videos are great.

[@James-dn8dh]

What i love about in deep geek is that (especially in the livestreams) is that he stays on subject, sure there may be some slight tangents but everything you get will be ASOIAF related and it doesnt devolve into bs joking around with chat or the guests.

[@BonanzaRoad]

Interesting overview! And Dave has an awesome voice!

[@roddammit5510]

2 of my favorite channels and a timeless topic of one of the true Kings without a crown.

[@jjackflash8907]

Also, Tywin had plenty of reasons to get rid of Joffrey, and would have eventually, if things had worked out differently.

[@katfishrick1600]

Tywin and Shai was another way of throwing dirt on Tyrion's grave imo.

[@King_Mac80]

I wish Ned and Tywin would've gotten a scene together during the show/books

[@jasonvazquez8652]

So do I.

[@JoJoJoker]

Tyson is my one of my favorite characters in the show. Charles Dance was a big part of that. Just started reading "A Game of Thrones" and am excited to get more insight on this character.

[@bubbahuskey113]

Soooo sorry I missed this! But alarms set for AM instead of PM rarely wake you up in time. Great job and thanks as always!

[@Stormborn1991]

Great video!! Tywin is such a complex caracter. Tyrion is a copy of him in so many ways , he is his real son .

[@prairieskye]

I had missed this one. Excellent topic Not a show fan but Charles Dance was brilliant

[@YoYo-wo3lm]

This one flowed really well! Great stream

[@JeramyKelton-lv3pf]

That was great! Missed it live but whatever. Can't wait to see you with The Order of the Green Hand again! Just AWESOME. Thanks.

[@alexmc7798]

Rickard’s grand alliance was likely to oppose the Targaryen(-Lannister) rule. What else was the purpose of the alliance? It was established in principle years before Harrenhal and the rebellion.

[@Coco19822001]

LOVE Order of the Green Hand!!!

[@Celebriel82]

Regarding Jaime and Cercei's relationship, I think that he was willfully ignorant of what they were doing. Even when Cersei was throwing it in Tywin's face about it, he even stated something like you're making this up to piss me off. Regarding Tywin's view on Tyrion's sleeping around, I have to agree that if Tryion wasn't overt about seeing prostitutes, then Tywin may not have had such disdain for Tyrion. He saw Tyrion's overt behavior as disrespectful to his house and that was the problem, not the sleeping with "whores."

[@tywinlannister8341]

If I was alive, I would make Seven Kingdoms great again #MSKGA

[@the4thamigo]

Yes u Wud boss. God I miss u. Ur the fn man.

[@Brandonhayhew]

I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: “Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desert . . . Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: ‘My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!’ Nothing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.”

[@totalnewb123]

Tywin Lannister what is dead May never die

[@ridiculousedtollett6120]

Great stream guys. Sorry I missed the actual livestream, catching up on it now though. It makes a lot of sense that Tywin bankrolled the tourney at Harrenhal.

[@DarkSolace33]

Tywin Lannister was a great Hand of the King.

[@sheillanyakato2153]

Tywin and Arya destroying Houses when messed with.

[@ashscott6068]

The pirate version of season 2 episode...I dunno...5 maybe, that I downloaded, had a cut to the scene in Ali G where Charles Dance is dancing in drag. Arya looks at him and then it cuts to the dance, then back to Arya. It was perfect. It was right where she's looking at his neck thinking about stabbing him

[@michellekaylan6926]

My dream team! I can’t believe I missed the live chat - booooo on me.

[@childofpersia1213]

The defiance of duskendale has Tywin written all over it. Greenhand is right here. It’s typical of Tywin to enlist a bannerman into doing his unsavory bidding, then rewarding them afterward privately. That’s what he did with the Westerlings to take down the Starks, so it’s not a far stretch to imagine him doing this with Duskendale

[@jawjagrrl]

Watching after the fact - great discussion. Was surprised though that more wasn't made of the claim that Joanna wore the proverbial pants at home before she died. Imagine what sort of woman could impact someone so stalwart as Tywin? Imagine how Stannis (who I see as similar to Tywin, but more lawful good than lawful neutral) could be different if he had a Joanna by his side and not Selyse? If a woman could make Tywin smile, Perhaps there is still hope for Stannis.

[@anabento5029]

Three great people together :)

[@Brandonhayhew]

Tywin Lannister was inspired by King Edward the first of England.

[@abbesieyesauralian7816]

Hey dude, great work, you are pumping out some content! Really appreciate it, had a long think about real word comparisons of Tywin. I think there is some Marcus Licinius Crassus mixed in there. The money and power, behind the scenes, ignominious death, that happens at mid point in the ventures of others tied to his fortunes. Knowledge and service of the last bloody sovereign and an apt player of the game! What do you think?

[@moiraferreira]

How spot on! 3years later and wham.....

[@bonzzo777]

Love this. Just out if curiosity. Do you split the superchats between the channels or is it all for the host if the stream?

[@emarti3853]

Very late to the party, but I'm curious about the parallel between Tyrion's and Tywin's childhood. Tyrion is the child most like Tywin, but Tywin was never laughed at. Tyrion often tries to make people laugh and Tywin had to teach Tyripn a lesson to not become a fool. At this point in the books, Tyrion is the imp, a devil monkey that kills kings. He haunts the (former) Queen Regent's dreams. It is at least ironic that the most amiable Lannister is now the most feared, compliments of Tywin Lannister (or at least from his murder).

[@MissRiny]

I still believe that Cersei and Jamie are not Tywins, while Tyrion is. Genna has implied it way to often. There is one scene where she and Jamie discuss Tywins life goals, like making his daughter queen and Genna says something along the lines of "but sadly he never really did". Well Cersei IS a queen so if she where his daughter this goal would have been achieved. I think Tywin wanted to believe that Cersei and Jamie are his while Tyrion isn't, but in reality it was the other way around. Or at least that is what Genna seems to think, and she must have spend a lot of time with Joanna at the stone while Tywin was hand of the king in Kingslanding.

[@hayleyversailles6946]

They are Tywin's. He was going to King's Landing to show off his children to Aerys when they were young when the whole "King raped my wife" thing happened. Tyrion is possibly a Targaryen by blood but he definitely is Tywin's in brain

[@MissRiny]

@@hayleyversailles6946 But it's said that Aerys always had a thing for Joanna, so the theory is that he insisted on the right of the first night and raped her than.

[@hayleyversailles6946]

Right of the first night was abolished by Jahaerys I 200 years prior, and I've never seen anything that claims Aerys took this liberty when Tywin was first married. The relationship between the two was not as radioactive at that point. It was only years later when ppl were saying that Tywin was the actual ruler of the 7 kingdoms that things started to go south. When the Lannister children were taken to court to be presented to Aerys is when he "claimed right of the first night" after the fact and raped Joanna. After that Tywin resigned as Hand of the King and left King's Landing for good until returning to sack the city during Robert's Rebellion.

[@MissRiny]

@@hayleyversailles6946 Yes that is right but he is the king and can basically do what he wants. The right of the first night was never even a thing in the south, but he talked about it on their wedding. Nevertheless; no raping was ever confirmed, so there is no need to fight about it, we simply like different theories.

[@MissRiny]

But I do have to say that I was wrong about Genna, it wasn't her that said this, but Joanna herself in a vision Jamie had.

[@candiikinz7719]

Watch @Greyarea’s DNA video for Tyrion Lannister! I think it is an extremely interesting theory regarding his parentage. I love your videos and I’ve discovered some wonderful youtubers with GoT material that feed my insatiable obsession throughout this long night!

[@mrsduncanthetall]

Mmmm very good and deep.observation that rhaegar was modeling himself after tywin👍

[@Celebriel82]

Re no Stark/Lannister betrothals, it makes sense that there were no eligible children to match. I believe however there were rumors of Lysa Tully and Jaime Lannister. That would have linked Stark and Lannister through marriage to the Tully sisters.

[@wizendsage757]

Do you think that Oberyn Martell poisoned Tywin before his death and that he was already dying when Tyrion killed him?

[@JeramyKelton-lv3pf]

I'll buy that for a dollar!

[@wrenwright-dw6gy]

Great livestream guys! I agree with most of your points, except for the assertion that George wrote Tywin as the 'grey hero' of the story. If you want to look at Lannisters as grey heroes, there's Jaime and even Tyrion. However, Tywin was just way too hard on his family and his realm for me to think of him as a hero. It's true that he was the best administrator and strategist that Westerns ever had. However, he was way too much of a crazy old cunt to be considered a 'hero'. He had a tough life and admirable traits to be sure, but that doesn't excuse the fact that he was the worst unethical bastard to ever wage war. The fact that he gave his tacit blessing to the most disgusting and blatant betrayal of trust in the entire story shows just how much of a paragon of heroism and virtue he is haha. It's true that he's a respectable commander and an able administrator, but he's probably the MOST grey character in the entire series. He's still behind the irredeemable cunts like Joffrey, the Mountain and Ramsay Snow, so that's something right? I fully acknowledge that Tywin was great at his job as the Hand, but using that as a justification for your personal view that he's a hero is intellectually dishonest. Before the Tywin fanboys/fangirls lose it, please understand that this is JUST MY OPINION.

[@bobertwithar]

Sad I missed this live stream. :(

[@the4thamigo]

Ps is it sad that my favourite scenes in got is tywin and arya I mean I hear that's not in the books at all but personally I was blown away by the writing there. Brilliant stuff.

[@jawjagrrl]

She is actually Roose Bolton's squire in the books, which is also quite interesting (she leeches him and sees him reading books in the library, then burning them). But I enjoyed her time with Tywin much more on the show. Always wondered what Tywin thought about her - he clearly knew she was bighorn, but didn't seem concerned.

[@roddammit5510]

She wasn't his squire, only a cupbearer. I agree that the snippets we get of Roose and Arya are great, so underrated.

[@jawjagrrl]

She does squire for Bolton - she maintains/cleans his rooms, his fires, his meals, toilette, leechings, etc. All the same things Podrick does for Brienne in the field, but Pod has added responsibilities since they are traveling, including her book horse. Same thing. She only worked as a cupbearer for Tywin. I find both meetings very interesting with each read.

[@the4thamigo]

Jawjagrrl u seem up to speed on the books I'll trust U on this 1 lol

[@jawjagrrl]

Haha - I'm on my 3rd reread atm and that is a personal favorite part. Might need a 12-step program for this story!

[@RissOfRivia]

Tywin was in denial about Jaime and Cersei

[@chrisdrizzy9721]

I know I’m late but my question is who is the better hand of the king in your opinion. Tywin lanister or bloodraven

[@Amadeus8484]

The Dead would have scared the fuck out Tywin. The Lannisters can bend the knee to Daenarys. They can't survive the Dead unless they destroy them.

[@Pomshka]

YES OTGH!!!

[@johnmontag]

Tywin was molded into what he became bc of the weakness of his father

[@santinoalvarado963]

Do you think it was possible that Tywin may have influenced Rhaegar to go after Lyanna as a means of assuring that after the Mad King was brought down, Robert would start a war with Rhaegar? Then he rigged the war so that Robert would win knowing that Robert would need a new wife, i.e. Cersei.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

tywin doesn't seem impractical to start a useless war. it would be much easier to just wait out a generation andthen marry into the royal family.

[@TraciPeteyforlife]

Tywin is a political master mind. Except for his arrogance when it comes to brith. Along with his I should be king ambitious streak. He reminds me of Otto Hightower, in that he had way too much ambition. With too little thought into how that gets maintained. On the level of what it takes to run a bunch of places. That want to murder each other. I beg to differ The Mountain would wake up and say yes bad things to do. I also disagree with Tywin being a good ruler on the large scale. If he did know about the incest, I think Tywin would have had Jamie or Cersei killed. Because he would have felt they pissed on his legacy. So he didn't allow himself to think they would do something like they did.

[@emarti3853]

Which backyard barbecue in the suburbs did those two just come from?

[@josegodoy8461]

What a jip? Where is the singing??!?!?!

[@pushista9322]

Can we just say Tywin was a Stalin of Westeros

[@KROGANLovesKittensAndPuppies]

1;00

[@SmileHeartXD]

:D

[@Levacque]

I have to say that the notion of a weirwood under the House of Black and White seems nonsensical. The weirwoods are definitively Westerosi, just for a start. I really don't think that's an outlandish claim, that this extremely important cultural bedrock of worshipping the Old Gods is inherent to the Seven Kingdoms and the practices are so conspicuous that it would stick out like a sore thumb for any Westerosi in Essos. There are no heart trees or any Old God talk anywhere. Second, exactly what other black pools are there in front of weirwoods except the one in WInterfell? That's a huge leap of logic considering that there's like a dozen or more described weirwoods nowhere near water. Third, what possible justification is there that the *bodies* need to be (or even can be) sacrificed to something when the *lives* have already been sacrificed to the order of the faceless men? The blood sacrifice has already occurred for the magic that the FM perform to remove the faces. Additionally, it's pretty well laid-out that the FM use any and all possessions that a sacrifice brings with them, and the bones are clearly still available to them if they line a passage. It's always been my assumption that the FM use every part of the body, so to speak. Render the fat into tallow, harvest the sinew for fiber, maybe even eat or give away the meat. This would preserve the bones in exactly the same way that the Silent Sisters do, and if you're sacrificing these bodies to something, why are the bones intact? Those types of tasks are what I assumed the lower chambers were for; they're the workrooms that would probably frighten away even Arya, just based on how morbid (heh) the work taking place would be. Like... He had all of those other really thoughtful points, and then he comes out of absolute left field with something that doesn't use any textual evidence, only feelings.

[@justineharper3346]

Tywin was a badass. The scene when he puts Joffrey to bed was one of my favorites in the book and show