Indirect Rules Changes and the Future of Artillery

[@danwilde4712]

"It doesnt feel good"? I dont think it feels good when Tau drops down in one turn and wipes out all my armor.....yet here we are

[@Hardcover_Pilot]

I'm very interested in seeing what you do with the Bombast Field Guns. From what I've seen Basilisks and Manticores are normally really hard to get hold of, so most new players like myself are limited in what we can field for artillery.

[@BattlesWithBrushes]

The manticore is definitely very underated, d6+1 attacks AND 3 damage? Brilliant

[@Hardcover_Pilot]

@@BattlesWithBrushes Problem with the Medusa and Earthshaker carriage guns is that they're probably going to get put into Legends with all the other Forge World models when the codex drops.

[@BattlesWithBrushes]

@@Hardcover_Pilot there are rumours about a new artillery piece in the codex

[@Hardcover_Pilot]

@@BattlesWithBrushes We'll see. Honestly I'll just be surprised if the codex drops more than six months before 11th Edition.

[@BattlesWithBrushes]

@@Hardcover_Pilot yeah....

[@Aaron-bd3to]

Even after the nerf, the Earthshaker/Basilisk seems pretty solid, not for the damage output but how it kills enemy movility

[@DeathKorpsCommander-sm1um]

Vote bombast for first new breakdown. It’s the most common.

[@CadianSergeantSteel]

It's literally the only one I haven't filmed yet... whoops. It is on the filming table though!

[@aLoyalGoose7]

Just wanted to say I stumbled across your channel tentatively wondering if I should dip another toe into 40k, always daunted by the ever changing rules, so very stoked to see you continuing to put out these video updates and unit reviews. We need a roughrider/deathrider review for me please! I may dare to go full 30 rough riders 30 death riders and have solar lead them all to death, just need to tell me how bad that will be lol

[@karlnygren]

That would be awesome! And probably rather a short game no matter who wins 😁

[@jerrytoppins]

I do love my Bombasts, Medusas, and Earthskaers

[@karlnygren]

Nice to hear your take on this. Some thoughts from me is to realise that -1 to hit given to the right enemies is not -17% damage, it depends on what they were hitting on. 2+ -20%, 3+ -25%, 4+ -33%, 5+ -50% and 6+ no change (but not many hit on 6+, except our servitors :-) ) For me the big change is that our artillery might not be as effective but it is now mobile and can reposition itself without sacrifising accuracy. If someone is heading towards my basilisk I can now move it 10" to avoid a charge next turn and not loose out on any shooting. Also, no orders needed for our artillery tanks means more for our direct fire tanks. And the Manticore is still a beast against anything with 5+ models, full rerolls to hit and S10 with damage 3, that hits hard. Something to think about are our FOB that still benefit most from an order. Take aim gives them 100% extra damage while Daring recon gives 75%, and combined 133%. This means that the Scout Sentinel is a little less auto take for the artillery but now maybe more for the rest of the army. This, in conjunction with Creeds nerf for Fields of Fire, opens up for more Hellhounds that removes cover which helps damage more than reroll 1.

[@calronkeltaran493]

this is how I see it as well. Artillery is just self sufficiant now. no more need for orders, so my Lord Solar can use his premium orders somewhere else. and as you said we can move our stuff now without missing out on stationary boni

[@QisforQadim]

This was the rule change that solidified my move from 40K to Apocalypse.

[@Jaybirderino]

Thank you for the breakdown commander! The Guard still stands tall, we're just obliged to fight fair and face-to-face for the most part now. I would like to note that the Deathstrike actually doesn't use the Indirect Fire rule? Thank goodness because it didn't need to be kicked down any further. Still a fun model. Regarding the Forward Basilisk you suggest - Though the opponent may forget about it, I don't know if I would play depending on that, and I tend to use that space for other deployments. However! Nobody should forget that the Basilisk and Manticore are still 10" movement, and driving into position to fire directly is identical to stationary fire out of line of sight for them, and it's better if you have a Take Aim order on them. And! Even in competitive where the bottom windows are "sealed", you can actually potentially use the basilisk's cannon, raising it up to get line of sight through the upper windows. Good luck out there commanders.

[@karlnygren]

Driving to get line of sight also gives the artillery lethal hits (if shooting the right targets for that) so it could be really usefull. And we get som use out of that HK-missile that otherwise only tries to kill some shenaningan unit like Mandrakes in the backfield.

[@Sgt-lott10]

I hope that the scout sentinel's daring recon gets changed to negate it because missing half the time makes sense when you can't see them, but when you actively have a spotter it shouldn't miss half the time

[@karlnygren]

Well, it doesn't. It makes you miss (on average) 42% of the time 😜 (reroll ones, hitting on 4+)

[@Sgt-lott10]

@@karlnygren I know it doesn't right now, that's why I stated I hope it gets changed to do that

[@DanielShaw123]

Deathstrike is NOT an indirect weapon. It is "plasma warhead" it will not suffer any sort of indirect fire nerfs.

[@DanielShaw123]

Otherwise GREAT video thank you sir!

[@josephrigley8974]

The perfect weapon.

[@CadianSergeantSteel]

Correct. That was a verbal slip on my part.

[@madhatter1662]

Artillery is supposed to be a garnish, not the main dish. But when it is the dish it is damn near ambrosia. In lore I see it as the Munitorum finally made some deliveries that were long over due. You know. The warp shinanigans that cause ships to arrive decades even centuries late. Like, "This ammunition has some good kick to it! When did you say it was manufactured? OH! They knew how to pack 'em back then!" Sadly, this is the grim dark future we are talking about and all good things must inevitably come to an end. Indirect fire, you shall be missed, for I never got to play you. At least until I resurrect its corps for use in my home brew games.

[@Pedro1136]

I love to use the tactic you described. It works really great with a leman Russ.

[@gingraham9779]

Still the peak lists from many other faction are far more potant than our best arty heavy lists so i feel many other factions should have gotten hit just as hard.

[@ladycubed5605]

Good update! Cadia stands!

[@dudeinadoughboy4327]

Personally I wished it worked more the way it does in Bolt Action, where it comes down regardless, but your roll determines how close (just like in real life; the shell has to land SOMEWHERE)

[@Ironystorm]

Well least perhaps this is just a artillery set back until the codex arrives and we get our alternatives to born soldier. As far as game mechanics go it kinda makes sense in the oh I can see them I can hit them sense and the I can't see them but I know they are there. But in a mixed reality sense there are spotters for these things and target coordinates however unit location is always available to us because of the game design. The weirdest thing to come out of this for me however is the artillery gaining lethal hits against vehicles this feels like more of a they might be fishing for the little ones but don't forget these are big guns that can turn on your vehicles/monsters. In particular rhinos might feel the pain vs manticores perhaps in combination with exterminators more frequently being in rapid fire range, rapid fire lethal hits dmg 3 ouch. I find Ad mech to be a similar army in just chilling around but maybe its who I play against but their imperatives seem to make them sit around to take advantage.

[@mitchellpolinop7650]

It feels good when it's tau ir any toxic player

[@ProphetOfTruth_]

I’m so confused. The rule states “an UMODIFIED hit roll of 1-3 always fails”. But the +1 from Heavy and the +1 from Take Aim order are MODIFYING the hit roll down from 4/5 to 2/3. So why are people saying 1-3 auto fails regardless? The hit roll isn’t unmodified anymore since it’s being modified by heavy and take aim.

[@billbonnie6676]

I had a game yesterday when this question came up. I'm wondering too

[@CadianSergeantSteel]

So think about it this way: modified and unmodified dice exist at the same time. This means they are in a state of being 3 (unmodified) and 4 (modified with all +/- done equaling +1) at the same time. Next step is to do any eligible rerolls. After that, when determining hits, remove all dice rolls 1s, 2s, and 3s, even if you have +1 to hit, making those 3s into 4s, all of the 3s still miss.

[@ErgonomicChair]

Expensive for really minor debuffs to the enemy. Kinda worthless now?

[@CadianSergeantSteel]

Well, I kind of already gave my opinion 🤪

[@ErgonomicChair]

@@CadianSergeantSteel I don't want to give arty up just because I like it aesthetically and thematically but yeah... the debuffs are too minor for the insane price for arty IMO. Artillery will become the new fliers IMO, nerfed to the point they are no longer even fieldable. Not there yet but its coming.

[@cadet3902]

@@ErgonomicChair You can always run it in a crusade/casual setting and shelf it for a tourney if you feel it isn't pulling it's weight in points. It's not ideal but as guard we always need to pivot with these changes and find something new, for the price of arty in points you could get a good Scion squad to cause havoc or fit an extra vehicle like a hellhound or extra russ or maybe upgrade a russ to a dorn.

[@calronkeltaran493]

for most artillery I agree but -2 Mv/adv/charge is not a minor debuff. this can keep a unit of inf out of the game for 3-4 turns. So I would say the bassilisk is still worthwhile

[@thegrimraven7738]

First

[@felonyriot870]

fir... dang