Can You Heat an Uninsulated Barn?

[@JoeyHale-jb8xv]

You could buy some heater fans for the firewood burner, I got 2 for my alcohol burner and they help greatly in my little place. They help push heat in places you wouldn't know.

[@HometownAcres]

I have a very similar wood stove in my 28x32 shop. I only have r19 in the ceiling, 1.5” thick foam board in the walls and spray foamed all the gaps and cracks and I can get my shop to 70 degrees anytime I want. Although when it’s 0 degrees outside it may take a little while to get from 50 to 70 in the morning. My ceilings are only 10’ so you may want to think about some type of ceiling fan

[@IndyFarmLife]

Yea, I had thought that looked similar to your stove. I just got it this fall. I don't think it will take much insulation, it's just tough because it can't really be a 'traditional' insulating job. A fan would definitely help. I'm ready for a consistently comfortable space I can work in that isn't my garage!

[@RodneyHayes-d3y]

Had a 7500 hundred square foot garage me and my partner heated with a homemade wood heater for over thirty years. It would be comfortable enough to work in short sleeves even with the steady opening of the doors all day. Around here firewood is free, many Lanscape companies pile their tree removal wood to the side for anyone to have so we went through a lot of it

[@IndyFarmLife]

That's awesome. Wood heat is hard to beat, esp when the wood is free. Definitely has a cozy feeling too vs diesel or other fuel source.

[@travis1572]

I have the same building, no insulation also . insurance caught me with a wood burner ,made me get rid of it, I put in a gas furnace, helps, but also needs more heat, thinking also of the diesel blower.

[@aaronvallejo8220]

I remember in 2017, my wife and I moved up the mountain in BC, Canada 🇨🇦. I previously bought a little camping trailer and had built a larger timber frame around it with a new metal roof. For the walls I wrapped the whole thing in poly. The first night up there was -12C. We got a fire blasting in the stove and sat back to see our challenge. After an hour the interior temperature was -10C. The heat was rising hitting the steel roof and venting straight out between the rafters. I turned to my wife and laughed "well honey, time for bed" under huge and warm blankets with torques on our heads haha. We saved a lot and learnt a lot that winter especially the value of teamwork. In conclusion, yes high insulation is absolutely primary for warmth, energy security and comfort.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Wow, sleeping in -10C is wild! A cool memory and story though for you and your wife. Glad you are here to tell the tale! Haha. Yea, no point in pumping a bunch of heat into a space if it's gone just a quickly. I don't know exactly what I'll do (likely spray foam) but I can't wait to have this space insulated.

[@aaronvallejo8220]

@IndyFarmLife Great project! Ensure there is always air gap between steel and your insulation. Best of luck sir.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Thank you! The more and more I hear people say that, the less I think spray foam is the answer. I read in these comments and other places online that if you don't the building will rust through very quickly. Thanks for the advice and input. Hope you will stick around for more videos!

[@TripleTAcres]

If you spray foam it, you can heat it with a fart. My barn has never seen less than 40 degrees. Even with -8 degree temperatures. Great video pal!

[@IndyFarmLife]

@@TripleTAcres hahaha that gave me a good chuckle. I was out there day fighting to keep it warm enough. I'm ready for insulation

[@Z-Ack]

Thats how my dad used to keep the house warm according to my mother.. said he wasent nothing but hot air and it constantly flows out of both ends.. growing up was a constant argument of mom turning up the heat, dad realizing and hollering at mom about it then turn it down., rinse and repeat.. in summer it was just the other way around.. good times.. miss em every day..

[@robertkolodzinski5759]

I know you don't want to turn this into an engineering project but a little engineering will help you make intelligent decisions about insulation types, sealing costs and heating costs. A bare metal building has a U value of 1.5. You can assume the whole building has a U value of 1.5. Then the heat load required to heat that structure is a simple calculation H=UA delta T. H is the required heat load from your wood stove and torpedo. A is the building wall and roof area estimated at 2400 sq feet. U is the coefficient of 1.5. And delta T is the temperature difference desired from the inside temperature to outside temperature which in your case is 70. So I did some rough estimating and I figured H= (1.5)(2400)(70)=252000Btuh. That is only half the calculation. Air infiltration is the second half of the heat load so that's another 252000 Btuh to the load. That results in a total heat load of 504000 Btuh for your building. That's the bad news. But the good news is that if you seal up your air infiltration problems with spray foam etc that heat load value goes away. Then if you insulated the entire building with 4" of rockwool or a similar insulation the U value goes from 1.5 to .25 and the smaller the number the better. Then the new heat load calculation becomes H=(.25)(2400)(70)=42000Btuh. With a wood stove and a fan you could heat that entire building. Of course your building has a concrete floor and garage doors so an engineering heat load analysis would be more complicated but these rough calculations can show some rough values so you guys can make intelligent decisions regarding heat sources and insulation. My buddy has a machine shop that is pretty large and he keeps it at 70 degrees F in the winter. When he gets there in the morning he starts up a torpedo heater to take the chill off and he runs it for an hour. Then the heating system kicks in and it maintains the machine shop at 70. Once you get your building insulated if you wanted to work inside at a reasonable temperature you could follow a similar path by starting both the wood stove and the torpedo in the morning and then once the building is up to temperature you should be able to maintain it with just the wood stove and a couple fans. Without insulation and air sealing you will go bankrupt trying to heat that building with wood and the torpedo heater.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Wow, thank you for such a thoughtful and detailed comment. What do you do for a living? Has to be something in physics/a "math" based field. My "seat of the pants test" agrees with you and think that this won't be too hard to keep warm with a little insulation. The question is which type. The more I read, the more I'm afraid of spray foam and trapping in moisture. Thanks again for your input. I really appreciate it. I hope to see you in the comments on my future videos!

[@robertkolodzinski5759]

I am a retired mechanical engineer with a concentration in HVAC. Regarding how to insulate your building I think the solution lies in copying how manufacturers of Butler buildings insulate their buildings. I worked at various Engineering companies that were located within Butler type buildings. The advantage of such buildings is that they can be taken apart and modified very easily by removing the skin of the building and then performing the modifications. If I remember correctly the insulation in those types of buildings were large rolls of wide fiberglass insulation that extended from the floor to the ceiling. Super easy to remove and re-install and modify. Perhaps you could insulate your building using a similar technique as the Butler Building guys as your building is basically the same type of building. Related to sealing all the air infiltration cracks there a couple of paths you could follow. You could use a thin coat of spray foam installed to just seal the cracks and then put the fiberglass insulation over that. Or you could use backer rods and seal everything up using a high tech tape like Zip Tape. Net zero construction is achieved using a Zip System that uses Zip panels that are sealed using Zip Tape across all the joints. The stuff is expensive but its good stuff. We keep our horse at the farm next door and I use Zip Tape to seal around all the cracks in the barn stall. If I were you I would attack your building in two steps. First I would come up with a plan to seal all the cracks and I think a good low cost solution would be to use the Zip Tape or a similar tape with some backer rods for the bigger gaps. Then you can do some research and figure out how to add your insulation. Obviously the thicker the better but the amount of insulation you add might depend on the techniques required to install the insulation. Good luck and I look forward to future videos.

[@fredhinck9685]

You might get it somewhat warm, but as soon as you remove the heat, the temp will plummet. Even insulated you will probably need 200k btu with ceiling fans

[@popsnorthcutt1741]

You need a wood burning furnace and a 175k btu torpedo heater to help it warm up faster. My pole building isn’t insulated either but I can get it fairly warm.

[@IndyFarmLife]

That's a lot of btu's! Would definitely warm it up quickly but then I would probably have to work in the buff so I'm not too hot ha

[@popsnorthcutt1741]

@ gets it warm enough to work in a t-shirt after a little bit. I’m an hour north of you.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Hey neighbor! How big is your shop? I'm guessing it's bigger than mine? Is that with zero insulation?

[@popsnorthcutt1741]

@ 30x40. No insulation at all

[@mitchjones2821]

I’m south east of you in Batesville. I heat a 26x26x8’+ garage full time with a wood stove. I supplement with a 110,000btu salamander with off-road diesel. It’s stick framed two 7x9’ uninsulated overhead door and one 40” man door. No ceiling With a 12/3 pitch shingle roof. I have 2” foam board in eave openings and ridge vent just stopping air flow. The “full time” goal applies to keeping it above freezing when I’m not using the shop through all the crazy low temps we’ve had. When I leave for work I load it up and it’s out by the time I get home, but warms everything to 50-60° so garage is still 40°-50°. I leave the salamander on the lowest setting pointed to the center open area. It kicks on 39°-41° and off about 45°. I barely use any diesel. Since winter started I still have the original 10 gallons I started with. I stay on top of the fire as soon as I’m around and as late as possible before bed. When I use the shop and want it warmer, I max out wood in the stove and keep it burning hot and the garage can get to over 70 if needed with outside temps in the single digits. I would absolutely love to insulate and purchase new doors but soooo many other projects and kids stuff have priority, and I am getting by.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Sounds like you have a decent solution in place to keep you warm. Not letting everything in the space get cold is key, as you have figured out. There is always something higher on the priority list, especially when the kids are involved. My grandparents are from Batesville. Small world!

[@mitchjones2821]

@ that’s crazy🤣 I have a lot of extended family scattered all over Fishers, Carmel and Noblesville.

[@IndyFarmLife]

I'm always blown away by how many people I run across on here who are somewhat local. Maybe YT puts that into the formula? Ha

[@mitchjones2821]

@ not sure. I got a live video recommendation two weeks ago of a trucker that was from out west with 500 subs. He was driving on 74 between Shelbyville and Greensburg. I’ve never watched anything about trucking that I’m aware of🤣

[@IndyFarmLife]

@mitchjones2821 haha you may have just solved the mystery here and now!

[@shadymaint1]

Build yourself a double barrel wood stove. The extra barrel works great as a heat exchanger/radiator.

[@IndyFarmLife]

@@shadymaint1 i used to have a single barrel wood stove in here, but opted for an 'upgrade' to this stove because I got a really good deal on it. Albeit smaller, it's a much more efficient burn from each piece of wood.

[@mikekares-b8q]

I didn't insulate my building because I didn't have the money at the time . Big regret ,now that I have cabinets and stuff all over the walls .I to use a Torpedo Heater and a Shotz Barrel stove . It will get warm in 40 degrees outside temp but not to much at lower temps.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Yes, I feel you! That's why I want to do it sooner rather than later before I start putting a bunch of stuff on the walls. It has to be this spring/summer or it won't happen

[@inmyimage1081]

I have a canvas quansat style shelter to assemble on my property in Bloomfield when I can level out and gravel a space for it so this was interesting. Up in Brownsburg I can heat my garage effectively with a small propane torpedo heater and have to turn it off periodically to keep from sweating too much.

[@IndyFarmLife]

What are your plans for the space? You likely can't insulate such a building, right? Pretty sure I know exactly what you are talking about. The nice thing about that diesel heater I have is that the thermostat will keep it from running you out of the building. Always nice when someone local swings through the channel. Thanks for commenting!

[@inmyimage1081]

@ Storage for misc stuff along with my tractor, mini excavator and lawn tractor. It’s similar in size as yours at 20x30x12. Doubt it would make sense to insulate it but with exposed ribs on the inside, I could probably do it with rigid foam board, but since it’s completely round without straight sides it would be a lot of effort. I also have a 20’s shipping container waiting for a spot to put it (currently sitting on my equipment trailer) and am going to build a small electrical room for off-grid solar equipment and will probably completely insulate it for a small workshop shop and all my tools.

[@inmyimage1081]

@Oh, and I went with the propane heater because it will work with my Ryobi 18v batteries or regular electrical and since we are staying in a duplex apartment while we build out the property, I can’t upgrade the 15 amp service in the garage. I run a cord from inside for my shop vac and lights and then don’t have to worry as much about tripping the garage breaker when running my table or miter saw, router table or planer.

[@dishpointer]

Closed-cell foam would work the best since you do have leaks. It won't absorb moisture like open-cell will. You will have to fill those gaps first with foam backer rod or something or you will have foam outside when they spray. The only issue with using foam is you will have to cover it around the woodstove. It's highly flammable and you would burn down your whole shop before you could do anything about it. Rockwool would be great but your ceiling would be impossible to frame up. Maybe spray 3-4" of closed cell on your ceiling then use rockwool on your walls. Something to consider.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Thanks for the info. I do plan to seal my leaks before spraying, so hopefully that will be a non-issue. The wood stove does make me a little nervous. I would probably seal up the walls around it though. Maybe build a little brick wall or something decorative. I do love rockwool though. Used a ton of that in my house. Thanks for the input

[@thescenicroute4712]

@@IndyFarmLife i agree with rockwool walls and spray ceiling. it'll be expensive, but it's best, everything else requires a framed backing for styroboard or battes; no biggie for the walls, but a bigger job on the ceiling.. a brick surround around the fireplace is nice thermal mass too!

[@rupe53]

@@thescenicroute4712 Build that wall behind the stove with concrete block and it will be self supporting, although not as pretty. Blocks will also go up quicker than small bricks.

[@dodgeme1986truck]

Honestly the best bang for your buck although it cost more to start is to add hydronic tubing into the concrete before you pour the slab... This serves 2 purposes better heat retention/distribution and it's nice not to be rolling around on freezing cold concrete repairing stuff...

[@IndyFarmLife]

Ohh yea, I 1000% agree. I plan to do that in my "forever barn" when I'm able to build it. This quonset hut was an inherited project. Ha. It has come a long way and I did just add concrete last summer (go watch that video to see how nasty it was). I just couldn't justify that expense for this building. Thanks for swinging through the channel!

[@dodgeme1986truck]

@IndyFarmLife it is useful information for anyone watching though... And I absolutely love the in floor hydronic heat... In the summer there are also ways to use it to cool the building suck as a wall/ ceiling mounted hydronic heat exchanger (basically a radiator with a fan) to heat the air in the cold and to chill the air in the summer.

[@victoryfirst2878]

Do you have a problem with condensation dripping inside the building ?? Did you put insulation under the concrete floor before you poured the aggregate ?? My neighbor says that was the best thing he did when he built his his man garage.

[@IndyFarmLife]

I noticed some long ago, but I didn't have any during this day. That is a concern I have though. No, there is no insulation under this concrete. This was kind of a fixer upper shop. My forever shop (when I one day get to build it) will probably have heated floors.

[@victoryfirst2878]

@@IndyFarmLife Good luck with your building Sir.

[@Adksnate]

2" of closed cell spray foam and you would be fine, it is its own vapor barrier so moisture won't be able to condense on the outside metal. Check out spray jones, he covers everything spray foam.

[@tonydentonarms4112]

Spray foam is the only way to go

[@IndyFarmLife]

I'm definitely leaning that way!

[@donvoll2580]

I seen a spray in van burn, boy o boy black smoke I think it is good but deadly Ths

[@nonesherman317]

whats the dimensions of the qounset hut garage door size

[@IndyFarmLife]

25x30 and the door is 10x14

[@daleolson3506]

You can make it as warm as you want but it’ll cost.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Haha this is true!

[@PaulMetzler-c1b]

Don't even try to heat the air. Use a radiant heater.

[@12321sean]

I have a similar building in Southern Ontario. 24 X 24 AND 16' HIGH. I sprayed the gap between the back wall and perimeter. So no air blows through. I tried propane, but it produces too much moisture inside. Diesel heater, smell... I ended up using a Mister Heater mid efficiency garage heater. Works really well. 80,000 btu in and probably around 50,000 but output. I have a couple of fans to circulate the air. From 0 F it takes about 5 hours to bring it up to 65 F. The furnace cycles on and off at that point. I only heat when I am using the garage. Sometimes it does rain inside from condensation forming on the roof. It heats faster when there is snow on the roof outside, but it slides off after the I side temp comes up. If you insulated you could definitely get away with the wood stove or a large 7000 to 10000w electric heater if you have the current available. Locally insulation is pretty expensive. Other than for the corner gaps I definitely WOULD NOT SPRAY FOAM. My concern would be trapped moisture and premature rust. The kit manufacturer has batt type kits that are held on the inside with the screws that fasten the panels together and will leave a little gap for airflow on the ceiling portions. Although it is cold, you won't loose a crazy amount through the walls, but pink board or something like that would work best Air sealing works wonders as the heat is not constantly blowing out That's my nickel worth Cheers Steve

[@donvoll2580]

G day Steve I am from Kit-Waterloo area. Yes we r going thur a old time winter. We need moisture everywhere. Here inWaterloo county in 1988 180 wells had to be drill' So were is this from? Ths

[@IndyFarmLife]

Steve, thank you for your comment. Your point about trapping moisture is a valid one and gives me concern about using spray foam. I have seen the type you are talking about that has the 'batta/roll" stand off the building walls. I'm not sure what that costs but I may look into it. I wish I had a good way to use Rockwool, I love that stuff. Just hard to use in my space. Thanks for the comment and all the detail. Hope to catch you on future videos!

[@Corey-dy2cq]

You'll never have to worry about CO poisoning.

[@IndyFarmLife]

Haha so true!!