INFJ - Counsellor - EII - Explained Correctly

[@guilejustguile1647]

My goodness, this was spot on. I particularly felt it deep when you said we INFJs can struggle with feelings of inadequacy/incompetence and imposter syndrome. I recall back in my first year at university I would perplex my classmates because I was very knowledgeable about the subjects; I studied very hard, yet I never felt good enough. It’s such a curse; it can cause me to become stagnant because I sell myself short; I’ve been working on it, nevertheless. The fact that we also want to improve ourselves is also spot on, yet we struggle to take action is also true. I’m always thinking, often to my own detriment, but again, working on it. Regardless, this was a fantastic video and I’m so glad you made this. Thank you. I wish nothing but the best for the future of your channel :).

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

If this is your type know you're are indeed a beautiful, strong and capable person now matter what they say , your actions will have the final word .

[@WorldSocionics]

Thank you!

[@guilejustguile1647]

@@Heyokasireniei468sxsothank you so much for your generous comment; I really appreciate it.

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

@@guilejustguile1647 your welcome and i love your avatar goku gohan and goten

[@thothgold2768]

Definitely make a better relationship with your inner critic , it's the source of alot of power but at the same time you want to keep pushing hard but in a way that benefits you and keeps you safe,even in destruction there's always creation when you feel down , btw is your profile pic a Homage to being a eii or you just like the characters?

[@hollyniemand3645]

That was quite interesting! I had often difficulties to see myself as a feeling oriented person when I looked at the MBTI, because they are described as making decisions based on values, and I felt like I wouldn’t really know what to answer if someone would ask me, what my values are. This definition of Fi sounds quite relatable for me. I have quite strong likes and dislikes and know when something feels wrong for me, but it’s really difficult to explain it in a systematic way, because in my perception everything depends on various different factors and every situation and person is individual. I sometimes tried to find something like an universal set of rules and values to feel more secure about my own judgements and better protected from manipulation, but it’s really not easy.

[@WorldSocionics]

Yes, any systemic approach to morality would be Ti. Fi is anti-systematic by nature and MBTI misses that.

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

That did not feel like 32mins but Good Job jack , Thank you for sharing your time, energy and insight with us while being a new dad with no time to yourself .

[@WorldSocionics]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@eagledove9]

You got it at 11:30 with taking on so many duties, no matter how hard they are, being burdened and having a longer and longer list of things to do. Again, that was the female INFJ from college, and also a male INFJ coworker from a few years ago - no matter how much of an exhausting strain it was on them, if somebody asked them to do some new duty, it would be added to the list of "I have to's." It didn't matter if they didn't enjoy doing it, or if it was unnecessary or unimportant (from my point of view). They have often tended to become managers at the restaurants where I work.

[@car_ing]

Wow. I would list a few things you got spot on but it was absolutely everything. So incredibly accurate. Very much appreciated!

[@INFP-Insights]

MBTI INFP, Socionomics INFJ here 🙃😉 Very interesting presentation. Most of what you said about the character of the INFP/INFJ rings true to me. Looking forward to learning more from you.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

Literally making my point for me. 30yrs later (1970s ve 1940s), Socionics lays claim to an "INFJ" that was an "INFP" for 30yrs. In both cases, it's Fi/Ne/Si/Te. And has a 3 letter Socionics ID. But you want to insist on this completely unnecessary redefinition of introverted MBTI lettering when P/J is a stupid, made up simplication of a functional stack to begin with.

[@Anhedonxia]

Why did this hit so deep? Im crying for no reason.

[@llunavermella_bloodmoon]

Not all EIIs are this naive. Especially as they grow older. Also they can be perfectly assertive. Assertive is not "not nice" nor aggressive, that's why it's assertive. Sometimes you need assertive for things to be "nice".

[@afganshredhead]

I’m glad you put that thing about us trying regardless of if we don’t like it. I have over the years become fairly confident in my Se because I broke it down to the very core. Once having enough knowledge I started seeing if I could put it in practice. Now I don’t mind using it if the circumstance arises. Still definitely prefer not to but if someone try’s to show dominance over me, I just focus on mine and their body language. Give quick concise orders, I bring in Fe too punishing non cooperative behavior. It really really a uniquely INFP / your “INFJ” trait. INFJ’s are supposed to be the chameleon, but some of the more self aware INFP’s are really hard to type. Jordan Peterson comes to mind, he is very much INFP but he uses Si to bring a tone of data a lot of people think he is a thinking type. Plus how he doesn’t back down from a fight, he just has extreme self confidence.

[@WorldSocionics]

Well, just because I say that an INFJ will try regardless of if they like it or not, it doesn't mean they will abandon that implicit lack of confidence in their own efficacy. In the case of Se, and INFJ will interpret it as a matter of being competent and work to develop it like a skill, without actually understanding what it is, and still not feel confident in it. On the other hand, I've known INFJs who can become quite over-the-top in an insecure way that actually impacts a lot on their environment, without them realising what they are doing at all. I don't know many INFJs who will tell me they are now confident in something. Instead, I know INFJs who will tell me all about their insufficiencies and insecurities, despite being much better at things than they realise. Where an INFJ can be confident is in their flashes of insight and 'just knowing', especially about the inner nature of people, or what will happen in a relationship, but this is rarely something they are able to explain factually or justify to others. As for Jordan Peterson, I'd say he's an ENTJ who has developed his Fi rather than an INFJ who has developed his Te. His natural strengths are in data, breadth of factual knowledge and problem-solving, his Se is hit and miss and seems valued, rather than a total blind spot. His reluctantly adapts to social expectations in a very traditional non-creative way, rather than sticks out like a sore thumb in the way INFJs are liable to do, suggesting his Fe is flexible even if unvalued and weak. His Si is very much the blind spot and it seems like he doesn't understand how to relax and his body is always on the verge of collapsing and taking him out of things for months. His Fi is still weak, and he relies more on his Fi dominant ISFJ wife to really handle things like intimacy with others. Si has nothing to do with 'data', that's a Myers-Briggs misappropriation. If you'd like, watch my video on Introverted Sensing explained correctly. 'Data' is Detached rather than Involved information, as we can only think about data, not feel it vivaciously. That, along puts it firmly in the Thinking box, rather than the Sensing box, despite its explicit externality, which Sensing and Thinking share. In addition, implicit to data is an attitude of what 'correct' knowledge should be, implying a Rational function, not an Irrational function.

[@afganshredhead]

@@WorldSocionics I didn’t really say I turned it in to a strength or am I super competent. I don’t like being forced into using it, but I am sure as hell not going to just sit there and take it. I’m glad you mentioned the Si PoLR issue, he deos seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of statistics and facts. This was going to be my next point but I guess you have already redefined the Si function to force Dr. Peterson in to the box you think he should be in.

[@martinstudenteditaliano4338]

​@@afganshredhead- the definition of Si that Jack uses and quotes above long predates Jordan Peterson becoming a public figure.

[@afganshredhead]

@@martinstudenteditaliano4338 I have since posting this seen the video in question. Please understand I have the utmost respect for Jack. He is an excellent socionist, in fact I would say that it is the theory that is lacking in this department and not Jack. Si is about how your gut reacts to your environment. If something is out of place your gut tells you and you feel inclined to satiate by putting it in place. This remains true for facts, if for instance you hear something is out of place factually like a word being mispronounced you will feel inclined to satiate yourself by pronouncing correctly. Jack is correct that it is distinct from thinking, for instance if it serves you no good by correcting the mispronunciation then you wouldn’t even consider it. But Si would always feel the need to satiate regardless of if it benefits him personally. This is why Jordan became famous, he was put in a situation where the powers that be said that he must say words that felt very wrong in his gut and he refused to and he has since lost his professorship and they are attempting to take his license to practice as a psychologist. That was not a logical decision, it was a sensory gustatory response. And also yes his encyclopedic knowledge is also an Si thing. This is one of the very few shortcomings I have seen in Jacks assessments. On most things he is spot on, but his views on Si are surprisingly underwhelming.

[@Wimbledon-Tennismatch]

@@afganshredheadhave u read Jacks article concerning JP on his WSS blog. He doesn’t seem to have a good control over his Si polr especially with his apprehension towards his health and medication I think 2019 at least.

[@Wimbledon-Tennismatch]

For some reason i was relating more to this type with the exception of the two or three. I like how u were able to add more context and examples to understand how certain IMEs show up in the type as well as paraphrasing of the descriptions from ur WSS blog onto the vid.

[@WorldSocionics]

Glad to hear it, and thank you. I should add that we have Carl Rogers typed as INFJ on our famous person benchmark.

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

is that why you choose carl rogers as your avatar the God of active listening ?

[@Wimbledon-Tennismatch]

@@Heyokasireniei468sxsoyes

[@meta.cognitiv]

This playlist is amazing. By the way, have you ever thought about covering the interplay between Judging and Perceiving axes from a fundamental perspective to that of practical use? Such as how Ni-Se interact with each other or how they work together in a back and forth manner or shall I say feed into each other? You know, when one function's insights start to travel along the axis to reach another function's (from the same axis) perspective/radar and then get processed by that other function to become something new (that other function's product)?

[@WorldSocionics]

I actually cover this in my course. Basically they go together to create the values in the type.

[@jordanholstein8023]

Great insightful analysis as always Jack!

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Jack "EII" and the 3 letter code will catch on once the whole world understands that S as a first letter = SP Artisan. And S as the second letter = SJ Guardian. I think it's a mistake prioritizing the mbti 4 letter code. You will have better success explaining the huge MBTI introverted sensing cognitive stack error. And why MBTI characters should be rejected.

[@eagledove9]

About the forces, dangers, threats, extraverted sensation: The one guy who was my coworker a couple years ago, when we were working at a gas station, would be constantly watching around us and out the window, as though we were going to get robbed, even though, in that town, there wasn't much crime at all. He still had this paranoia always on. His eyes were always looking out and seeing who was coming and going, who was walking by, and he would get a personal impression of every person, individually, judging whether or not they seemed likely to be a dangerous person, or a friendly person, and he was able to quickly describe these impressions. It was like he was a guard. I can't remember if that guy had been in the military, or if he had come from a dangerous town before he lived there. The other male INFJ who I have known for many years, when I talk to him about the subject of war, he makes these statements that trigger me, and I can't really talk about war with him, because he'll say with absolute certainty, 'Oh yes, we definitely had to kill all those people' or 'We have to go to war with them,' as though jumping straight into a war and killing masses of people, because they're bad or they're dangerous, is something that you can quickly and easily decide with certainty. He's not the one making the decision, just someone talking about it, but, he doesn't like the idea that there could be some dangerous threat or force out there that might hurt us, and it should be destroyed right away.

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

For EII ,SE polr also works in things like romance , They don't always notice who's attracted to them , but when they do its serious (as they are serious types) But it also works in that they are not gold diggers. So they are not naturally paying attention to what you have , They are also the type to fall in love with your soul , not just what you look like sound like , move like (se stuff), because those things may change over time. They literally love you . and in regards to leadership , they do subtly aspire to take leadership roles but they prefer the role of the queen on the chess board , especially the dominate types they are more the iron fist behind a velvet glove if its something attached to their Fi because they are nfs which are choleric types (choleric supine albeit but choleric nevertheless)

[@fakedoorsfordinner1677]

(While I do agree) What do you mean serious types? Do you mean take the world seriously, and expect people to behave in a way which is authentic and honest to ones thoughts? (Which could be seen as serious, because someone won't joke in that occasion)

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

@@fakedoorsfordinner1677 oh i was speaking of the serious vs merry fi/te vs fe/ti , even tho any type can be serious and anyone can be merry

[@fakedoorsfordinner1677]

@@Heyokasireniei468sxso If you think about it, that's exactly what I said. (Serious)

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

@@fakedoorsfordinner1677 lol yeah

[@deacon19899]

Disagree with about not knowing to me it's more that Se vulnerable doesn't act. I need more than someone flirting with me. Or someone having a crush on me. Need to know you on a deeper level first. We have Fi ofc we know their motivations.

[@Jamz-]

Good to see you again Jack!

[@BenVaserlan]

If EII (FiNx i.e. Accommodator Idealist) is the "Counsellor"* then it's not not the same kind of counselling which NiFx (IEI i.e. Contender Idealist) is predisposed to. Serious point: these days, Counsellors in the USA might not be legally allowed to be directive due to legal liability. Thinking deductively, FiNx will give lot of options. Speaking more empirically, Accommodator Idealists are good listeners. Female Japanese* Accommodator Idealists are the best listeners. * = Due to CULTURE. "Counsellor"* = BTW, it's more accurate to distinguish roles from the predisposition to enact roles. Also one can have atypical role enactment in a typical way e.g. a by the book artist who concentrates on good technique. Imagine how an Initiator Artisan (SeTx i.e. SLE) would counsel - well, they would do it in a typical way.

[@kathyhoskin8350]

i related so much to this. Thank you for understanding.

[@mrz4252]

Great video, Jack! As an EII, I definitely had struggles with demonstrative Ni, especially in regard to an EIE with whom I had a falling out.

[@WorldSocionics]

Glad it was helpful!

[@melissascaggs7351]

Excellent Job!

[@LadyLuck8_4]

I thought this was actually very good. Albeit on the behavior side of things but very good even from that perspective. Very astute work Sir!

[@afganshredhead]

I am an INFP, Jack!😂, I do respect your opinion. I am really glad you made yourself more clear in this video. Like always great content!

[@BenVaserlan]

FiNx is predisposed to reconciling alienates e.g. "marriage guidance counsellor". With the Ne, it can see multiple points of view. This is an informing not a directive role. Does socionics not call "R" ethics of relations? Dr David West Keirsey (he counselled professionally then trained counsellors) theorised the Diplomatic Enabling Intellect (natural to NFs) as having two halves: directive Mentoring and informing Mediating. BTW, Keirsey thought they got counselling right in the movie "Good Will Hunting" but genius wrong. The other intellects are Tactical Manipulating (Se & Ti/Fi), Logistical Safekeeping (Si & Te/Fe). and Strategic Building (Ni with Te, Ti with Ne).

[@eagledove9]

I've only gotten through the beginning so far, but this description sounds so much like the girl in college who was my best friend while I was there, who I later typed as INFJ (she had gotten ENFJ on a test we took, and she was very sociable and friendly with people). She was always musing about the meaning of something that somebody said to her, like whichever guy she had a crush on at the moment, and that seemed to be a long and ever-changing list of people. He said this - what did it mean? And then, disappointment if her interpretation didn't turn out to be right. And 'What should I do? Do you think that I should do this or that?' with regard to relationships. She had a lot of long discussions like that, not just with me but with her other friends as well.

[@derickmoseswilliams5630]

At least there's no pestering about lowercase and uppercase letters.

[@littlesunshine603]

Informative ☺💚 waiting on IEE video 😻

[@melisasegura4054]

Jack, this is spot on! Which would you say are the best jobs for an EII (besides counselling)? Thank you 😊

[@WorldSocionics]

I've known good teachers and therapists who are EII, also portrait artists, psychologists, writers, qualitative researchers, etc.

[@WOOWOWOWOWWOOWWOWOWOW]

Your explanations are very concise (more so than others). I suspect I'm most likely ILE (altho im not e7 sooo???). Could you do a video on polr fi? I have some doubts about my polr function and most descriptions of it point towards being "accidentally offensive", "misinterpreting psychological distance" and "being a troll" (kinda dumb description). This never really applied to me (especially the offensive part since i use fe and i know that stuff). Do you have any thoughts? Did you resonate heavily with the descriptions on wikisocion? Looking forward to a reply

[@WorldSocionics]

Have you had the chance to catch the ENTP explained correctly video? I go into this on there. ENTPs can be accidentally offensive, but that's not a blind spot issue because they are usually able to avoid this, and try hard to avoid this. The key problem is that they aren't aware of their personal attitudes and have trouble relating more to some people than others. People can end up being interchangeable for them without clear logical reasons, and in general they can struggle to keep the right level of closeness and distance from people based on personal character. They often avoid any kind of character judgement altogether.

[@WOOWOWOWOWWOOWWOWOWOW]

@@WorldSocionics Thats extremely relatable, in the past ive been able to switch out my friends very easily and have had trouble maintaining relations. Thanks so much for the explanation

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Great analysis.

[@hagayuyu2941]

What do you think of an ENFP 3w4 getting EII as a result of a socionics test? After listening to your explanation about the EII, i would say that i really relate to it (some of the descriptions i don't really relate since i kinda like being in positions of power) and i also received EII as a result from the test. Do you think an ENFP 3w4 EII is possible?

[@Vitor-zs5yv]

Just an addendum, the fact that the sentimental type's judgment is closer to their emotions does not mean that these judgments cannot be justified in logical terms. This is because logic is not concerned with real entities, so much so that it is said that logic is the science-art that has as its object "entities of reason with second intention". Therefore, even though Jungian Feeling is a reasoning that aims to evaluate things based on your personal feelings, it could still be formalized into a consistent structure. We must also remember that feelings are never separate from thoughts and are in fact preceded by them, so they are not merely "sensations" as you claim in your video.

[@WorldSocionics]

Could it? But then how can you standardise one person's sentiments in line with another person's?

[@Retrosenescent]

22:45 this was also the core message of Candide by Voltaire. Work and doing something useful brings your life meaning.

[@TheGlowingqueen]

Infj here. I have to say that we are coming from Ni and Fe not Ne and Fi. Let me explain. Unless you have these functions inside you, you don't know where we are coming from. I'll start with Fe - we know better what some else is feeling before we know how we are feeling. We take on other people's feeling. This can be very uncomfortable. Alot of times we don't understand it. I have taught myself a little hack to figure out my own feelings. I journal and get my feelings out, so I can look at them. That helps me better understand them. Fe Regarding Ni. We INFJs tend to have it functioning in the background, not even aware of it happening. Categorizing, organizing, prioritizing.... Alot of times a connection with God's leading. Unless you have it you don't know what it's like.

[@WorldSocionics]

You sound like someone who would find the INFP explained correctly video more relatable. Have a listen, see what you think.

[@thothgold2768]

Definitely helps💪 great video

[@ryanschmidt4351]

I think you've rather proven my point. Side note: I discovered radioactivity "in parallel" with Marie Curie ... but my work is better, so I call an atomic mass of 238 "iron" rather than "uranium". Was that necessary even if my work *is* better? Not in the least. Will it cause confusion bc the vast majority of people have a different understanding of those words? Absolutely. But that's on stupid people who don't understand how much better my half-life measurements are. Expecting the periodic table to change for me ... rather than just calling it 238 instead of "iron" is confidence, not arrogance.

[@WorldSocionics]

I may sound arrogant to you, but again, arrogance is misplaced confidence, not confidence. You saying I sound arrogant is your perception based on your belief that my confidence in this view is ill deserved. I would say that if you knew anything like what I knew on this subject and understood both MBTI and Socionics to the extent I do, then you would think that confidence well deserved. The only way to reconcile such competing paradigms is to exchange knowledge, so rather than form judgements, maybe try and bust my paradigm. Only good can come of that, whether in you actually proving me to be arrogant and me going away to have a hard look at myself and to come back more grounded and aligned to the truth , or you realising the extent of the gap of knowledge between us and how this shapes our opinions. Your analogy involves making things more complicated than they need to be. That's not what I am doing. My goal is to teach people Jungian type, with no assumption that they know anything about MBTI. It is easier if they don't, and that is me catering to the majority of people. My advice to those unfortunate enough to learn MBTI is basically to unlearn anything they have been mistaught and start afresh. If you'd like to better understand the issue of J vs. P, why MBTI doesn't make sense on it, and why my approach is much more sensible, then I recommend you watch my video on it. Even if you disagree, you'll then.have a point to make against me rather than empty opinionating about me being arrogant, which isn't constructive.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

The irony here is we are mostly agreeing. I agree that you are well researched and have a better framework for cognitive functions than MBTI. My only feedback is that it is a myopically Ti exercise to believe that being "right" is all that matters. If you use MBTI letters that Socionics co-opts but uses to call an INFJ what everyone else understands to be an INFP, that is Te inefficient ... no matter how Ti "right" you are. And holding firm in that Ti rightness rather than caring about the confusion you create for 90% of readers (as witnessed by other comments) is not Fe efficient either. It makes you seem smug and arrogant, no matter how Ti justified you feel. You can ignore that and stay in your Ti bubble ... and 1% of the world will hear your Ti "rightness" ... or you can take in some Te/Fe information from the Tribe and learn to better disseminate the crux of your message in a way people can actually receive effectively. The choice is yours.

[@WorldSocionics]

Just tonight I publicly typed a self-identified MBTI 'INFP' as a Socionics INFP. Tell me why it would be more efficient to tell her that she is actually an 'INFJ' instead, when she's not? You seem sure about what you think efficiency is, but I would say that following your recommendation is much less efficient further down the line. I would argue that the momentary, initial confusion of someone familiar with MBTI first coming into contact with Soionics is worthwhile, in exchange for coming to understand the nature of these key differences early on, and from there progressing on a path of coherent understanding. It creates that initial intrigue that prefaces a deeper exploration. The alternative is delaying the confusion for it to be more hindering at a later stage of investment. You'll quickly find that many of the types I describe, such as the ISTJ or ISFP, make much less sense when presented as ISTP or ISFJ, to the point where it would actually cause more confusion for the people listening to how the types behave and wondering how it is possible that the Ti-Se type could be called a 'P' type at all, and when they then ask me, what am I meant to say? That I was lying for the sake of conformity and that actually it's a 'J' type? The point is, there is more to efficiency than expedience and conformity. Otherwise, we would never have had an agricultural revolution and would still be hunter gatherers. Sometimes the way to increase efficiency means inexpedience, and non-conformity, at least for a short while.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

@@WorldSocionics The only thing I'm expressing "sureness" of is that you are inconsistent in how you think about effectiveness. On the one hand, you want to dismiss the importance of an "installed base" of people who assign certain cognitive functions to "INFP" or INFJ" ... in the name of what is most accurate. But at the exact same time, you acknowledge that "Fi/Ne/Si/Te" would be MORE accurate ... but dismiss the idea of just using that language because "no one talks about someone as Ne/Fi". How is that not selectively choosing conformity and expediency?

[@WorldSocionics]

@@ryanschmidt4351 I acknowledge no such thing. There is no difference in accuracy between using the Jungian dichotomies and listing out cognitive functions. However, you seem to be assuming that Si+Te in one system is going to be much like Si+Te in the other system. It isn't. If anything, Si+Te in one system is described more similar to Ti+Se in the other system, and vice versa. The cognitive functions aren't defined the same between the two systems, so listing cognitive functions is no solution to what you present as a problem.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

Your intellectual vanity robs you of the credibility you might rightfully earn. "Parallel, not simultaneous" is a hilariously absurd rebuttal. If something happens 30yrs after something else, that is serial, not parallel. By definition. You lose all credibility implying otherwise. A commenter here called themselves an "MBTI INFJ, Socionics INFP", and you hearted their comment, so you are completely full of shit arguing that you aren't referring to the same cognitive stack under a different MBTI lettering. Which isn't necessary unless you want the better search results of piggybacking on MBTI letters, while referring to a different type while doing so. Use the Socionocs 3 letters or the cognitive functional stack. I dont record a rap album and call it jazz and then get angry at people for not appreciating how my music is better than what they think of as jazz. That would make me an arrogant prick. Dont be an arrogant prick.

[@christineschreiber5073]

very good description👍

[@guilejustguile1647]

Jack, I was wondering. Do the socionics types of a romantic couple somehow influence the type of their offspring? I.e can an ESTP and ISFP only have some socionics types? Or can they have any one of the types?

[@WorldSocionics]

Not enough data. I've seen past theories on this disproved.

[@guilejustguile1647]

@@WorldSocionicsI see… well, thanks for your response, Jack.

[@Li07pi]

I’m quite conflicted if I’m this type or intj, both feel sort of familiar to me… idk if there is a significant difference between the two (probably there is) but I was convinced I was a ti+ne user until I saw this video 😅

[@WorldSocionics]

This sort of thing can happen when things are explained more clearly. would you like a type diagnostic interview to help sort it out?

[@aleks0_o879]

when you title socionics letters with mbti as a reference, its like your not being real man

[@WorldSocionics]

It is more god than man. Only mortals fear to step on the toes of inferior typologies.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

not arrogant at all ... lol

[@nebur9180]

Isnt mbti infj counselor and infj the dreamer

[@siryoucantdothat9743]

humpty dumpty me 😂

[@ashercorbett8089]

Im so confused about the P vs J thing...😂 Does that mean every person i have typed as INFJ (ni fe ti se) looking through an mbti lense, i should actually call a socionic INFP (still ni fe ti se)?

[@WorldSocionics]

Only if they were typed correctly and one would need to know the types correctly in order to do that. Better thing to do is watch both videos and see if your friends match one or the other.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

e. g. only if you insist on using MBTI letters rather than Socionice letters, while overlaying socionics thinking. which is completely unnecessary, but this person insists on doing because MBTI letters get him better KZbin algo results.

[@anasilva.272]

Is it normal for an IEE to also relate to this video? 🤔

[@ryanschmidt4351]

I'm confused. INFP lead Fi/Ne and INFJ lead Ni/Fe. Is this an entirely different framework than Jungian typology?

[@WorldSocionics]

It's a better framework of Jungian typology, closer to Jung too.

[@ryanschmidt4351]

I get that the P/J is an unnecessary contrivance of MBTI vs just sticking with Jung's cognitive functions ... I don't really understand why Socionics chooses to cross-match introverted types with MBTI letters that swap their orientation. That seems unnecessarily confusing. Why isn't this an INFP video? (Fi/Ne/Si/Te)

[@WorldSocionics]

Feeling is Judging, yes? If so, having Feeling as your dominant function should make you a Judger. I talk about this at length in my Perceiving vs. Judging video.@@ryanschmidt4351

[@ryanschmidt4351]

I agree that INFP's present as "judgers" more than INFJs due to lead F vs secondary F. J/P was a marketing invention on the part of MBTI to simplify congnative functions ... it's rather dumb and unnecessary. But I don't see the point in trying to rebrand INFJ as INFP functions. That seems an unnecessary and confusing battle to wage when you can stick to the cognative functions themselves and avoid all confusion.

[@WorldSocionics]

People don't go around calling INFP "FiNe". I'm just refusing to cede nomenclative territory. Socionics has always called this the INFJ. @@ryanschmidt4351

[@ghost_hunter1987]

Could you help me type myself?

[@WorldSocionics]

For a fee, sure.

[@four2896]

If you are EII in Socionics then you can only be ISFJ in MBTI. /j

[@Retrosenescent]

Unfortunately I'm a lot like this myself :|

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

Then you're a cool ass dude , everyone needs a eii in their corner

[@PracticalSocionics]

You have more gamma levels of harshness.

[@Retrosenescent]

@@PracticalSocionics that is very flattering, thank you 😂but I definitely don't feel that way most of the time. I'm so disgusted by EIIs and see so much of it in myself.

[@PracticalSocionics]

@@Retrosenescent why disgusted?

[@Retrosenescent]

@@PracticalSocionics waffling back and forth on different interpretations of how people have treated you rather than just trusting how you feel, wasting too much time overthinking something instead of just trying something out and seeing how it goes. Making excuses for people's bad behavior and giving them too many chances. It's all weak, pathetic, disgusting behavior

[@ryanschmidt4351]

Yet again, you miss the point entirely. Even if we cede that you are more brilliantly insightful about cognitive functions than anyone who has ever lived, it's still wildly unnecessary and counter-productive to use "INFJ" when referring to the cognitive functions that 97% of the world knows as "INFP". If you could scientifically prove that "yellow" was actually "red", referring to it as such and blaming others for the confusion would be an ineffective way of putting your "truth" into the world.

[@WorldSocionics]

Why is it counter-productive? Who sets these parameters and decides that conformity to whatever the majority currently thinks is the productive way forward? You say "97%" of the world, but that isn't true. Most people have never heard of the MBTI, so to say I am up against "97% of the world" is inaccurate and makes me appear more contrarian than I actually am.

[@jaredvaughan1665]

Jack, please stick with the established nicknames. Or none at all. There are way too many nicknames out there already. Plus, IEIs are more natural counselors than EIIs. So you didn't even choose the best name for EII. And Keirsey already claimed counselors for his INFJ (NiFe.)

[@WorldSocionics]

Why would IEI be more established counselors than EII? EII has Si Mobilising which provides that healing motivation, plus the intention searching of Fi+Ne. Carl Rogers was EII. Our nicknames were agreed democratically on WSS years ago.

[@afganshredhead]

Both types have aspects that would do well as a counselor.

[@WorldSocionics]

@@afganshredhead what are the aspects of IEI that would do well as a counsellor in contrast to EII? Sure they have all the strengths of the EII, and can do what they do, but the attitude is different, IEIs are more invested in what they believe and how people fit into that destiny. Counsellors are meant to decentralise their thinking to understanding each person on their own terms in order to find a path to healing.

[@afganshredhead]

@@WorldSocionics I think that the both have great talents that would do very well in this profession. IEI can be very sympathetic to people, especially if the persons values align with their own. They can serve a very supportive role for a person who is in need of this type of support. Obviously they (both types) would need specialized training. EII has empathy and can easily put themselves into the other person’s shoes. Regardless if they share the same values which is a huge advantage. But both have great talents that go well with the profession. For that matter every type would bring its own talents to any profession. That being said my pick for best would be EII but a close second would be IEI. But if someone just needs a supportive person who shares values would be better served with the IEI.

[@Heyokasireniei468sxso]

@@afganshredhead Don't do the empathy sympathy split they have both . What it has to do with is , EII has far more patience for the nuance bs , they will allow people to lie to themselves until they can reach their own point of seeing the problems.... Where as IEI wants to hurry the process along for you to get it (movement)(result)(directive) for example , lets say you had MPD , the EII will work with you in a way so you can see it for yourself , where as an IEI will just tell you if there is no restrictions around being direct and since there is in therapy , EII makes the better therapist , if you want you use Dario Nardi EII gets off from active listening its what lights them up so to speak Its not that IEI isn't a active listener it's that we receive things abstractly from NI and the axis of SE (like body language) so not really focused on what you are saying(the facts and details for themselves) but more so what's behind all of that , what is the deeper meaning and inner essence of what you are saying symbolically and where is it going . Ni whole zen brain when solving the problem basically is what gets us off our insights Ti mobilizing ,hidden agenda ,stress relief its more analytical , like a psychologist or psychiatrist, putting things into boxes and coming up with a solution like here is your pill once the problem is located , we can suspend our own realities to see yours to become you , see thru your eyes , we have plenty of empathy its sympathy we lack we may not care , we may indeed feel you literally but that does not move us to care, or always to take action , or relate to you or feel bad for you , we may think you deserve it but we have a desire to improve you(like you belong in jail but we will make you better so you are not a threat , or eliminate you if you cannot be helped) For EII they receive everything personally due to( FI, and SI) So they are walking thru your story more so like an emotional tourist(process type ) (control)(responding) they may not be feeling as you feel directly, but they are trying to understand if it was them how would they be feeling and how that feeling would effect them , how it would generally effect anyone. They are making it personal and are trying to find a practical way to relate that to you , so you can feel understood or heard , they feel sympathy because they don't want you to hurt if they can help it , may feel bad for you, they may take action to make you feel better . Especially if its making them feel uncomfortable SI , but at the same time may have been thru something similar before so even more so why its personal they have a desire to heal you , they may find confidence in their ability to emotionally listen and provide comfort so they have even more motivation to sit and be present with you where the IEI if its not apart of the greater truth , something we are searching for , part of our inner circle or forced upon us like someone is breaking down right in front of us or around us we might ignore it or try to like there may be a part in someone's story that they really need to go in circles for , but the solution is right over the hill the EII , will again have that patience , That a IEI wont when seeing the finish line especially if they seen and heard that story already If anything listen jack made it clear about how IEI can work on the 1to1 and how persuasive which only comes with empathy and emotional intelligence, which makes them better at being a priest hence mystic or shaman ..Our cognitive and visceral empathy makes us more understanding , (ti wants to understand)which can make us compassionate but not always The functions are not only strengths but energy ,EII has the energy for being a better therapist their emotional empathy and emotional intelligence makes them more compassionate always unless you are indeed a sinner and perhaps even still They can do both at the end of the day tho as they are both nfs ,reading people is our wheelhouse intuitive feelers its in the name and all have hsp , height mirror neurons and oe's especially eii and iei oh also iei is chart the course and eii is behind the scenes , so that too makes eii the more suited therapist

[@aprl4616]

You should write INFj instead of INFJ. No to mention FiNe EII fits INFP more than INFJ.

[@yuganshmehta83]

You didn't get the point. 🤣

[@aprl4616]

@@yuganshmehta83 What is the point?

[@ryanschmidt4351]

the point is he wants to co-opt MBTI lettering for different functions (INFJ vs INFP) even though socionics has its own lettering system because he gets more views this way.