Insane Palworld Nintendo Lawsuit Update...

[@SonicAdventureEnjoyer]

Can't wait till Nintendo Patents being a Video game Developer at this point. Patenting NPCs following you is literally like 50℅ of games

[@ac31048]

The patented riding a fricking horse. They patented throwing an object. Absolutely absurd.

[@Raddish-IS-Radd]

​@hello866t7Nintendo actually. Considering they started the lawsuit.

[@ac31048]

@@Raddish-IS-Radd Its a bot. It can't understand you.

[@treverwillis4348]

Escort quests will finally be conquered 😂

[@SonicAdventureEnjoyer]

@@ac31048 Rip Red dead redemption 3 then if Rockstar ever made it lmao, "sorry man can't ride your horse even when it's the wild West"

[@WorldNetExplorer]

Did... Did Nintendo seriously patent the third-person shooter format?

[@shirothefish9688]

And pathfinding, with how vague the parents are

[@billygoatguy3960]

yeah the diagrams don't really cover what is actually mentioned in the language of the patent, literally any third person shooter

[@stigmaoftherose]

Game mechanic patents are grade A patent trolling as nothing in a videogame is new its just more complex as computers get more complex.

[@Helfirehydratrans]

And they also covered the patent that determines if your emails inverted or not Because if you move your stick up in assumed you wanted inverted remove stick down it leaves it standard controls

[@stigmaoftherose]

@@Helfirehydratrans dude reading that comment gave me a stroke.

[@ravenplaze8972]

"It's just pokemon with guns." I don't remember Pokémon having anything like base building, resource management, and an extensive crafting system.

[@bradhaines3142]

plus the ability to fight other monsters, without a monster. not just throw balls but actually fight it

[@Aldenfenris]

​@@bradhaines3142agreed, but of course people that don't care to learn what is going on and go just on word of mouth might think that. Plus Nintendo most likely likes that comparison. So they can just talk down about the game like "oh, look at that edgy copycat game"

[@The_Local]

It's ark like straight up they have almost the exact same mechanics just applied different ark even has pokeballs.

[@paipai762]

Or a game that actually works

[@mymop4422]

i felt like it was close to pixelmon, the minecraft mod that has pokemon in it. honestly an amazing mod.

[@WannabeGhost]

We need to legally define such a thing as legal harassment and punish it severely. Its shocking how commonly rich entities drown small time competition in usually baseless lawsuits.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

You can make as many laws as you want but the law simply doesnt apply to rich people. They'll never enforce those laws... we live in a society

[@LumemDH]

​@@youtubestudiosucks978we never really moved from Nobles and Peasants society and, unless it's the Kingdom of God, we never will. This distinction will always exist.

[@notchs0son]

@@youtubestudiosucks978crazy Rich people seem to be capable of enforcing rich people to Submit to the law but you know Whatever…

[@sashimi3478]

Sometimes it can even be against a huge brand. E.g. Russia vs Google recent lawsuit demanding Google to pay 23 freaking undecillion (33 zeros) dollars.

[@big_shotgun]

They’re called frivolous lawsuits, and the problem with them is that you have to get into court and already pay BEFORE you can state a lawsuit is frivolous (some exceptions to the rule)

[@occularmalice]

Patent on "computing the motion of game characters with respect to other game characters, game objects or element of the game scene". Basically every game ever made.

[@bestlaptop_psn]

It shows that whoever allowed that patent to go through has zero knowledge of gaming and who should not be the one allowing those kind of patents through

[@Gulyus]

Specifically it means to have a mount that can swap from running to swimming to flying (or climbing) automatically. Which uh... Literally wow mounts work like that?

[@DonnaPinciot]

@@Gulyus Also any game where you can swim in water. Riding a horse and they go in to water? In a lot of games, the horse will swim. Whether you stay on their back or not, they're still a mount that's changing their movement state.

[@jblps]

That's the abstract and purposely written vaguely. Have to look at the entire patent

[@xXGodkidGamerXx]

Doesn't avatar the last airbender do that?

[@selectioncrescimento]

Honestly Palworld is more like Ark with Pokemon than anything lol

[@elijah2403]

I agree. It’s annoying that he said it’s “literally Pokemon with guns” instead of “Ark with Pokemon.” Makes me wonder if he actually played the game.

[@Stoned0nes]

@@elijah2403what if he just never played ark and doesn’t have that as a comparison 🤔

[@elijah2403]

@@Stoned0nes That doesn’t make his comparison any less wrong.

[@oldmanzoro7873]

As someone who never played Ark, I said a calmer Rust with Pokémon

[@rainscents]

​@@Stoned0nesyeah he never played Pokemon, Ark, Rust, or any games with base building then. Its an oversimplified term used by ppl when the game just released years ago, to think there are still ppl saying it means they never touch the game.

[@themorebeer3072]

Palworld isn't Pokemon with guns. Palworld is ARK with Pokemon. The base game loop is pretty different from that of any Pokemon game out there.

[@TheGoldenDunsparce]

What about the gyms/towers in Pokemon/Palworld?

[@ScriptedRealityYT]

@@TheGoldenDunsparcethat’s literally where it’s close to Pokémon. EVERYTHING else is closer to Ark. same progression, base building, crafting mechanics, etc… the cute aesthetic, models and the towers are to appease the Pokémon fans I guess. You can’t even say the models are ripped from Pokémon because Nintendo ripped theirs from dragonquest lmao. And now they’re trying to own mounting and throwing/catching. They’re just bullies.

[@nicknevco215]

Seem so

[@spiderenigma2803]

@@ScriptedRealityYT the patent is about throwing things that do a thing to another character in a 3d space, not just throwing things that do a SPECIFIC thing... this would count grenades in call of duty with the way its worded

[@mmboiler10]

Still "with pokemon" i cant make a game "with stormtroopers" you guys can't even deny the problem 😂

[@notoriousyolkhound4600]

Ok, the "pokemon with guns" was a funny joke when the game released but now its quite obvious how much more it is than that, its more appropriate to say "Its Ark mixed BotW and Pokemon, with guns". Do not compare it by saying "its BASICALLY just pokemon" thats doing it such a disservice

[@D3adCl0wn]

I'm pretty sure it's called that because no one would use "monster capture game with guns". Just like how nobody calls souls-likes as action RPGs anymore.

[@hecklejack7726]

There is the saying “Don’t Judge a book by its cover.” People tend to do that anyway, making the saying mute. Most people tend talk about the Pals and Guns because that’s the most distinctive thing about the game. When the Pals resemble Pokemon, OF COURSE people who hadn’t played the game will just look at it and say “Pokémon with guns” That’s the most notable thing about it.

[@TheaArtsFox]

it's a good way to know that someone talking about something is not well informed of the things they are talking about... which could take off their credibility, i don't even saw him doing the fingers to make it sound sarcastic like "it's just pokemon with guns". but maybe he did and my pea brain did not noticed it.

[@Simplysec52]

Nah. It’s pretty much pokemon with guns dude, just cause you don’t like the phrase said doesn’t make it any less true, this reminds me when genshin impact came out and everyone was comparing it to botw, except..the fanbase of the game if you said in anyway it was related to botw they wanted to rip ur face off ☠️

[@manen2391]

Here's the main issue here, Pocket Pair never discredited this in fact I remember an interview with either a dev or the Ceo saying that they liked it, and that's how every youtuber and reviews was marketing it as Pokémon with guns, Palworld physically wouldn't exist without Pokémon

[@aetheralmeowstic2392]

Nintendo is still overreaching here, end of story. This case needs to be thrown out with extreme prejudice and Nintendo needs to be forced to pay Pocketpair's legal fees plus damages

[@theblahhhman2614]

Yes that

[@billyhatcher643]

theyre just patent trolling i also doubt that japan wil be smart and throw out this pointless lawsuit cause nintendo owns japan theyre the oldest company in the country

[@smekd11]

Muta was kinda glazing pokemon here icl

[@BalloCrew]

I agree, all of the listed patents I feel could easily describe Ark for example... with wording like "characters in a 3d space" or "aiming an object that affects Field Characters" so should a new ark game release will they strike against that? or what about the next big RTS with wording like "computing the motion of game characters with respect to other game characters"? Heck feels like GTA 6 could fall into that description. I feel none of these are "Original Nintendo concepts"... and is clear they exist to get rid of other IP's that urk them, at their discretion.

[@ShadiC636]

I understand when companies want to protect their brands, but to sue for having *_similar mechanics?!_* If they win, this will set a disastrous precedent in the future of video games!

[@sirripsalot420]

4:30 the patent system ladies and gents. Patent number 7,718,482,937,429 is about how 3D character models interact in a 3D environment. Brilliant

[@Marvin_R]

history is about things that happened in the past. do you now know all of history? a single line in a patent doesn't describe the totality of what it covers. patents contain multiple paragraphs of claims describing what they cover in a lot of detail, and something only infringes if it matches that entire description

[@whatevernamegoeshere3644]

@@Marvin_R Nintendo described what people have been doing with rocks and nets for about a couple tens of thousands of years to get food but made into a 3D simulation. Their detailed description of the capture with a thrown and controlled item literally applied to afternoon fishing at the local lake lmao

[@Marvin_R]

@whatevernamegoeshere3644 and nintendo didn't patent those physical actions. they patented a method of how that can be simulated in a videogame. which is something new. and that's why they put in all the "electronic device" stuff in the patent description.

[@SaHaRaSquad]

@@Marvin_R "a method of how that can be simulated in a videogame" The method would be a specific algorithm. A simulation of a real action is not a "method", a simulation is by definition a copy of an already existing process, it can't get more prior art than that.

[@gravemind883]

Nintendo dog.​@@Marvin_R

[@internetperson8224]

Can’t mount a creature? Can’t have an npc follow you? I think they tried to patent PATHFINDING for groups of npc??? This is disgusting. Devs should be able to use any mechanic available to them.

[@unknownsample4801]

patent lawsuits like this kill innovation in gaming.

[@norsehawk]

And the first patent... patent throwing a grenade?

[@internetperson8224]

@ you can still throw grenades, just not at npcs :) 😂

[@Asriel_Cypher]

Patenting Mechanics kills innovations. If you Patent a mechanic of "FPS-Mechanics" then congratulations, we will never have another FPS games ever again. If Counter Strike patented that, none of you would be able to play Overwatch. Apex Legends. Valorant. All of those games, would not be possible if Counter Strike patented that. That's how horrible this is but the ones defending Pokemon/Nintendo doesn't see the problem. They're just blindly loyal to it and it sickens me.

[@FrostedRaps]

Look up the Nemesis patent from shadows of mordor

[@xXYannuschXx]

This is just classic patent trolling at this point. These patents wont hold up in court and Nintendo knows that; what they try to do is getting a cease and desist for Palworld out and try to bury Pocketpair in legal fees, by stretching out the court hearings.

[@Mangojuice4050]

Money makes the society go round and round.

[@joseph-i6f]

​@@Mangojuice4050 goes round in the wrong direction

[@darcidious99]

Well it goes round, just a full 360 degrees so we always end up right back where we started.​@@joseph-i6f

[@ashthefirst1190]

It's not money they are after they are trying to stop them from selling palworld completely

[@Sirrincai]

These patents wouldn't hold up in a US court. Japanese courts are a pretty different animal where some surprisingly outrageous claims have been upheld.

[@GreatLordOz]

The 3 patents are INSANE. They literally cover like 50+ percent of games

[@clarehidalgo]

I'm pretty sure the one patenting computer AI pathing covers like 75% of games

[@mozzarellamaniac6300]

If patenting having italian game characters wasn't enough

[@rolux4853]

They should never ever be granted if the idea existed before! This corrupt oligarchy like system of granting patents should never be possible! You should only be able to patent something if you are clearly the first person that ever created it and if it is nothing super obvious like here. Only complex things should be patented and the insane Japanese patent system should never be a problem for the rest of the world! If they want to keep their fascist feudal system, than they have to keep it in their country!

[@Marvin_R]

@@rolux4853 have you read the actual patents? they took something like 10 paragraphs to describe how a pokeball works, and the patent only covers things that match all of those 10 paragraphs. the "claims" section is what matters most.

[@matteomastrodomenico1231]

If you make an abstract of them it sounds like that, but they're actually quite narrow

[@panqueque445]

This is ridiculous. Nintendo needs to take the fattest L possible on this.

[@PaganPilot]

Just wait for all other Japanese game companies to threaten their own cases, and/or all fall upon each other as unspoken agreement has been shattered, especially if Sony gets more involved.

[@kr1me2000]

Palworld is like the worst game of all time, died after 3 months..... good job from nintendo. PUNISH bad games.

[@powerrangerblue8566]

​@@kr1me2000 make better bait.

[@akaiappears]

@@kr1me2000 not everything needs to be a live-service for life

[@detectivefischer6396]

​@@kr1me2000 Low quality bait

[@evillecaston]

The fact that those patents exist in the first place is nuts. Vague concepts shouldn't be allowed to be patented.

[@Marvin_R]

it's 24 paragraphs to describe 1 of these patented game mechanics, that's not really vague.

[@Faceplay2]

@@Marvin_Rstop being a fan boy

[@Marvin_R]

@Faceplay2 stop namecalling if you have nothing to contribute. both namecalling and bad arguments based on misunderstanding do more harm than good to defend your viewpoint.

[@nathaniel311]

@@Marvin_Rit is a vague mechanic in terms of games, even if they provided 24 paragraphs most of these mechanics they didn’t even invent

[@Marvin_R]

@nathaniel311 that's because you're looking at the perspective of "just a catch mechanic" or "just a mount mechanic". that's not what they patented. they were very specific in documenting their unique catch mechanic and mount mechanic as used in legends arceus. they described them in such detail that not even their previous games with catch and mount mechanics fall under these patents. in the pokeball patent, one of the additions is them actually explaining how different their legends arceus catch mechanic is from that of any other pokemon game.

[@crazyxgamer]

Nintendo probably saw that Pocket Pair was teaming up with Sony and Aniplex and interpreted that as Pocket Pair picking a fight with them so they went and took the fight Nintendo are basically the yakuza of the Japanese gaming industry so this really could just be that they felt they were disrespected so they are bullying them in court as a result

[@Zappy_C]

More like they saw Sony doing the exact same shit that Nintendo did with Gamefreak and knew it could become a problem.

[@Goremize]

They should release Pal World on the Switch and watch it outsale their pokemon games

[@smithynoir9980]

"It is the Pokemon IP with guns attached to it" No, it isn't. It's close to Pokemon but it is factually and irrefuatbly not the Pokemon IP. No matter what Japanese courts say, Palworld can and should take their assets and leave the country. Nintendo needs to be made to pay severly for thinking they can engage in patent abuse.

[@jimdshea]

"Pal World flew too close to the sun.". No. F that.

[@huma474]

They leave the country they'd still be liable for it due to the Patent Cooperation Treaty and it would only be seen as much worse for them as an active effort to attempt to circumvent the courts. Nintendo has offices in enough places that no matter where they go they would immediately be able to seek enforcement of the Japanese judgement.

[@rokkraljkolesa9317]

it's also not even Pokemon gameplay as others have said (and I wholeheartedly agree), it's most accurate to say "Ark but with Pokemon"

[@deaconthethird3218]

Nintendo deserves the Game Freak leaks and having English speakers thinking they made creepy stories about their Pokemon. They also deserve to be exposed for using emulators themselves at events.

[@rokkraljkolesa9317]

@@deaconthethird3218 when did they do the emulator thing?

[@WGG25]

the real question is: how the fuck can they patent such basic behavior? how is the patent system so fucked up that it allows this? can anyone fight against it at all?

[@Marvin_R]

the patent system works off the 20+ paragraph claims, not the single paragraph abstraction or a single line description. so the patent is a lot more complex and specific than what reports on news sites and in youtube videos make it seem. would be interesting to see a youtube lawyer break down an entire patent, and explain how it applies to a game.

[@Cowboycomando54]

@@Marvin_R Specifically a lawyer that is an expert on Japanese and international patent law.

[@mesmorrow]

Just like they are going to patend having game developers 2 decades from now if we allow this kind of stuff to keep taking place, we need to make it clear that this is not ok and that we simply won't stand for a game company, any game company using such vague patents to bully smaller studios and companies.

[@MarcelDerLPer]

@@mesmorrow patents on something that is purely didgital is not the point of patents it never was it was technologys and the fabrication of monopolys

[@scourgehh714]

If you think this is bad, wait until you find out that most historical inventors, actually invented nothing and just had the money to patent poorer investors existing works and claim its their

[@Shojikinaryu]

instead of suing they could just get their shit together and make something good that poeple want.

[@Shojikinaryu]

should not even be legal to patent that much of a basic idea lmao and suing for them.

[@MaddCrazyMee]

that's too much work for them, sadly.

[@LumemDH]

Nah, too hard and makes too much sense.

[@Helfirehydratrans]

Imagine if Nintendo actually made good games instead of relying on making sure there’s no competition Because anytime there’s any kind of competition that will go against Nintendo they’re quick to either take their games off their platform and if they can’t do that they’re going to either by the company out or do this Because the only reason they’re suing power on this probably because Paul Rudd didn’t accept a buy out

[@sho8269]

that would be to logical and easy 😅

[@HazardXXI]

Wtf do you mean flew to close to the sun?? They should never have to worry about that in the first place!

[@alicerose7856]

Agreed. Since when has there been a set "roof" on the creativity or scope of a game? Last I checked, pushing it was encouraged not damned.

[@curtoonstudios3809]

Fun fact! according to Circle Dude236, if an invention has gone 20 years without going under patent, than it becomes Public Domain. Pokémon came out in 1996. Meaning they had from 1996 to 2016 to patent the Pokéball machanic. They had it patented in 2021, a woping 5 years after the patent deadline. So its 2024, they are 8 years too late. And the idea of throwing a ball and summoning a creature to help you in battle is also not their original idea either. That credit would go to "Ultra-Man" Which came out in Japan in 1966. A whole 30 years before Pokémon was even a thought. More details? Bet! In particular, the first episode of Ultra 7, they introduced the idea of Capsule Kaiju. Ultra would throw these Capsules, a giant monster would pop out and they would assist him in battle, which was indeed the direct inspection for how Pokémon Battles would play out. Also, Ultra would also call them back to use later. Ring any bells? Not only that, the Creator of Pokémon himself said that it was inspired by Dragon Quest as well as his hobby from Bug Collecting. And before you come after me and say that "this lawsuit is set in Japan, their laws work differently ", please keep in mind that 1.) According to Snintendog, Japanese companies only have one year have their ideas and inventions patented before it goes into Public Domain. And 2.) Craftopia predates the Legends Arceus mechanics. And since Craftopia is a product of Japan, their mechanic is completely Public Domain because Pocket Pair never patented it, because unlike Nintendo, Pocket Pair isn't greedy AF. You know what that means right? Nintendo Committed Patent Fraud. If the courts in Japan finds out the Nintendo would not only lose the lawsuit, they would probably be forced to pay Pocket Pair damages too.

[@Projolo]

Being a lawyer isn't your thing And Nintendo only attacks Palworld because they aren't independent.

[@krsynx]

​​@@ProjoloNo one asked..

[@gamedestroyer112]

Id ha tree to disappint you sir... but he did his Reasearch. You dont need to be a lawyer to know law. And h sint trying to he a lawyer. Hes trying to give clarity of what all this means. Also... nintendo has gone after any9ne so it doesnt matter what palqorld is. So you clearly need to do YOUR Reasearch. because its wrong. Ok? The guy literally did hism so do yours otherwise people will attack you insteaf. ​@Projolo

[@gamedestroyer112]

Hes just a Nintendo fanboy. He is literally nothing. This is why i support sega. Cuz of people like him. And Nintendo. Lol. ​@@krsynx

[@Sorrelhas]

Damn, only one year to set a patent is crazy

[@Quirky_Dinosaur]

Palworld is not a pokemon copy it just has some similar mechanics. Palworld is open world and sandbox. Pokemon is not.

[@StygianIkazuchi]

Palworld is more ARK: Survival Evolved.

[@bunnyg4464]

THANK YOU. Idfk why he keeps calling it 'pokemon with guns' when the only pokemon thing about it is the spheres you catch things in. it's deffo more ark but with pokemon than it is over anything else, just gonna hard assume he's never touched ark or a game like it in his life so he doesn't know the comparison.

[@sinfulmourning2780]

Yeah honestly I'm a huge pokemon fan, but palworld feels more like a factory sim 20 minutes into the game. The pals feel less like a vehicle for strategic combat like pokemon but rather workers and upgrades to your base. The world feels more like dark souls than even Arceus could try to be

[@YolkieYolk]

@@bunnyg4464 It has some pokemon that are straight up copies of others, that much is true. Palworld developers are pretty much dancing the line of copyright infringement with many of it's designs and even their other games, being very (VERY) similar to hollow knight and breath of the wild. They should be punished for their clear copyright infringement, but this lawsuit is not the way to go, as it will set a horrible precedent

[@StreakyBaconMan]

I mean sure the entire game itself isn't a copy. The designs for some of the monsters you catch quite obviously are though.

[@normalchannel2185]

The last patent literally seems like it targets basically every NPC pathfinding and mounting. Like RDR, Minecraft etc

[@dragoon0anime]

At this point Nintendo is basically trying to patent Dijkstra's algorithm

[@nomoredlc593]

difference is nintendo only targets companies that are weaker/can´t receive help from others to fight back

[@nielsbishere]

@@dragoon0anime be careful, don't put that A and * too close together or nintendo might sue your ass

[@JNJNRobin1337]

if nintendo wins, i will, on behalf of them, file lawsuits against every single game company

[@tobyzilla2.074]

​@@JNJNRobin1337including companies like mojang and other big game companies as well as indie developers

[@BurntMango]

Patenting game mechanics would destroy innovation in game development

[@kurotheumbreon7435]

*Cough* Warner Brothers Nemesis System *Cough*

[@X.3.N.0.N.2]

​@@kurotheumbreon7435 They should sue each other!

[@BurntMango]

@ that’s the exact system I was thinking of

[@tisvana18]

They’ve been patenting game mechanics a lot longer than this. Simpsons Hit and Run was sued by Rockstar because of the arrow indicator. The fucked up thing is that patents can ONLY be for mechanics and not for code. So it doesn’t matter how you do it.

[@StygianIkazuchi]

Mutahar please stop calling Palworld "literally the Pokemon IP with guns". It's an ARK clone with a Pokemon-like artstyle and a few mechanics similar to Legends Arceus. "Pokemon with guns" was just a meme we said because it was funny, and Nintendo clearly acknowledges it's not actually try or they'd be going for copyright not patent trolling.

[@bradhaines3142]

tell me where pokemon has building your own base with a factory and its own slaves you have to go catch to build upgrades, to go build more bases

[@ravenshrike]

@@bradhaines3142 To be fair, Pokemon were always enslaved, and as well they were officially breeding with humans per the leak.

[@Izzmonster]

@@ravenshrike woah wait what?!

[@Average_Arthur]

​@Izzmonster Leaks from Gamefreak show pieces of unofficial lore made by the people there that talks about humans and pokémon having sex (10 times out of 10 being non-consensual), and people immediately started freaking out. Though, I find the outrage kind of stupid. I should clarify, I've never properly played any Pokémon game, but I saw a lot of people claiming that the stories are rather tame compared to some old bits of lore on the pokedex entries. Which made me question: why complain about Gamefreak putting some disturbing stuff in Pokémon when they've done this before?

[@clarehidalgo]

@@Average_Arthur The Typhlosion one was just the Tanuki husband folktale with the Tanuki replaced by Typhlosion

[@Froggy_Bomb]

I desperately hope that Nintendo loses. They need to be squashed in this suit and maybe, HOPEFULLY they will realize that they HAVE to start making games of better quality and more content. The state of modern Pokémon games is atrocious.

[@longsnoutpug7248]

State of the majority of games on Nintendo is atrocious.

[@nomoredlc593]

imagine if after this nintendo gets counter-sued for gamefreak never fully fixing scarlet/violet bugs and glitches,would be extremely funny and ironic

[@nightmarearcade2663]

It's weird since Pokemon is the only franchise they have that's like this. Though if you ask me it's because Pokemon never had a long standing rival or competition and palworld is the closest thing to that. But instead of doing the logical thing and improving their franchise and recapture what made it special in the first place they are opting to get rid of competition because making Pokemon good is hard apparently. I just know that if they actually win this lawsuit then we are gonna possibly see the end of the industry as we know it.

[@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63]

I hope they win and then get sued by some obscure company that invented Pokémon before Pokémon. Don’t know who made the original shin megami games but apparently they were the first monster catchers.

[@thorscape3879]

The state of Nintendo since 2017 is atrocious.

[@Danorpx]

Videogame patents in Japan are so insane, you've no idea the shit they do.

[@mozzarellamaniac6300]

Patenting game mechanics in general is the stupidest thing a gaming company could do

[@crazyfloof]

@@mozzarellamaniac6300 It shouldnt even be possible to patent mechanics

[@Enzed_]

​@@crazyfloofyeah, without patents we could've seen cool systems like the one from shadow of Mordor in other games.

[@55sfg55]

​@@crazyfloof it isn't. But it's only true for the Europe

[@55sfg55]

​@@Enzed_ this system was not that good, the reason why we don't have it is because only this specific game structure can work with this. They wouldn't be able to patent literally the Sims, and all RPG games...

[@SleepyKerboro]

"Pokémon with guns" is oversimplifying the game. The game has an extensive crafting system with automated systems that uses the Pals as labor. People who are buying Pokémon aren't the target market if Nintendo thinks this. They are being so disgustingly petty it makes me never want to buy another Pokémon product again

[@dipper48429]

If palworld losses the legal system failed gamers

[@Tazreale]

If Palworld loses, we can expect other triple A games to pull this crap and hold a monopoly over a 'concept.'

[@Pårchmēntôs]

This is specific to Japan, they can’t enforce it internationally. If Nintendo is successful we’ll probably see a lot of developers move out of the country.

[@Marine5D]

Gamers? Yeah sure, but failing developer studios is much more serious. Not even that, this means that any business in Japan could face this same exact thing because their system is easily corruptible. If Palworld loses this, it will be extremely bad for whole Japan. As i'm planing to start my own game project, seeing this situation i most likely try to avoid Japan in the future because dealing with them seems to be quite unpredictable. Patents can appear out of nowhere. I'm not the only one thinking this.

[@scourgehh714]

Not really, the legal system was designed to protect the top fogs from new competition so it'd protecting nintendo just like it's supposed to

[@williamyoung9401]

Japan has an incredibly high conviction rate. And their justice system is...different than in the West. Judges can actually be held "accountable" for rulings, since a central office oversees them. So, if you're in court, you're basically guilty before the opening statements.

[@noah1535]

People keep saying pokemon with guns but it's a lot more like Ark with pokemon

[@jacketyt6992]

100% agreeing on that one.

[@StygianIkazuchi]

it was funny as a meme but now it's actively being used by the "anti-Palworld" Nintendo fans who don't even register mentally that this is a patent case not copyright.

[@paipai762]

I'm getting IGN crash bandicoot JUST LIKE DARK SOULS vibes from this statement

[@D3adCl0wn]

Pokemon is the defacto term for monster capture games. No different to calling a sandwich cookie an Oreo. Even Black Myth Wukong is categorized as souls-like rather than the general term of action RPG.

[@paipai762]

@D3adCl0wn generalization terms for brainlets

[@goosemanVEVO]

There's a video called "Its A Palword Afterall" that goes over the history between Nintendo and Sony that suggests this lawsuit isnt really about Palworld, its about Sony. It explains that Sony and Nintendo have been opponents since Sony tried to use a business cooperation between the two to gain leverage over Nintendo. And Nintendo sees Palworld as Sony using an indie dev to encroach onto their territory. So if PocketPair was unaffiliated with Sony they likely wouldnt have cared so much. But PocketPair *are* affiliated with Sony via Palword, which has become the legal battleground for the dispute.

[@TheGallantDrake]

In that case, Nintendo is very stupid in the way they've tried to approach this.

[@KesariForMugen]

Underrated comment right here.

[@jackmayor3574]

What does Sony have to do with Palworld? Wasn't it exclusively on Xbox and PC's for a while?

[@Aldenfenris]

​@@jackmayor3574Sony needs a big game, needs a win, and imagine if Sony managed to make Palworld into pokemon 2.0 with merchandise and cartoons and branded products. They wouldn't care too much if it was a Sony exclusive (I am sure they might push for it) but just the idea of finding the new gold mine of another pokemon is enough to make them salivate, and Nintendo is not stupid, and does not want the competition.

[@kampfer91]

@@jackmayor3574 Sony smell the money and partner with Pockpair to create Palworld entertainment , if this goes well it will have the potential to compete Pokemon in theirs own yard and Nintendo doesn't want to have any of that . Other monster catching game have to pay fee to Nintendo as they are release on Nintendo platform and the popularity never that high as people claimed , even Digimon couldn't reach out to a much larger market and audience .

[@VworksArt]

With how vague some of these patents are... Nintendo may not even think they will win. They may just keep appealing in an attempt to bankrupt PocketPair. What a miserable company.

[@spence6195]

The most evil videogame corporation. They hide behind their "family friendly" games

[@scourgehh714]

Ummm what? The patents are vague meaning it's easier to win as so much more falls under it

[@SalmonBucket]

Don't forget about the leak pokemon story

[@jonathanflanagan1504]

@@spence6195 Oh please. Nintendo is far from being the most evil, they're simply finding ways of being evil that are unique compared to other game companies.

[@zipityzap7675]

Pokemon copied many concepts from other studio/companies, even the catching and using creature thing. This was just a plain bully, The palworld is not claming to be a pokemon with guns. Its just what most players' opinion. This is fairuse in a way but considering Nintendo, I don't think they know what it means.

[@unnecessarycensorpolice]

Pocket pair needs to tell them that you have copied so many similar mechanics and Pokemon from other video games and yet you're punishing us for doing the same

[@planguy9575]

Digimon needs to sue someone.

[@Tazreale]

Dragon Quest remembers.

[@hannahshark8080]

I hope the creators of Dragon Quest step in and slap the Pokemon company with a lawsuit for ripping their designs off.

[@deadjosh13]

I want Dragon Quest and Digimon to come around and sue Nintendo LOL

[@Scarril_VT]

This is insane. Patents like these (that are extremely broad) should be illegal. The first point sounds like a gun or casting a spell...or throwing a grenade.

[@youtubasoarus]

They can CLAIM anything they want. But it doesn't mean it will survive a court challenge. I think this is where they're at. The challenge part.

[@AmberCommentsThings]

They realized they got their asses beat by an indie company and tried to fabricate a BS patent on a basic game concept

[@rami8896]

@@youtubasoarus The issue is that Japanese court can be pretty corrupt, where pretty much the bigger one will always win. So its not looking good for Palworld, but hopefully this will be a lesson to consumers to NOT give companies that are trying to ruin gaming a penny.

[@winzyl9546]

Well... yes it is, *but thats not the point.* The point is big companies like nintendo can easily out-money smaller companies and force them to settle doesnt matter how ridiculous their claim is. Its not about bribing either, its just the cost of lawyers. Note that Nintendo has never lost a single case, most result in settling.

[@shiguriyamamo6730]

​@@rami8896 Yeah it's so corrupt that an entire game series was built on it

[@weed3728]

If only Ninendo could do something new and cool with Pokémon instead of going after someone who’s doing what they won’t.

[@nomoredlc593]

is because of us. why doing something new when whatever shit they throw at us sells at a rate of 7 million games/day on the launch weekend? (remeber the bring back natdex move? sword and shield sold 20+ million copies anyways,diamond and pearl "remakes" showed even some involution compared to the og games,and still sold 15+ million, and scarlet and violet were buggier and 1.0 cyberpunk 2077 but still are the second best selling games of the franchise)

[@reed3863]

"Why bother? Our slop will sell anyway." - Nintendo

[@erickfw197]

True and real, unfortunately doing something "respectful" doesnt mean it's lucrative, and they just care about the money

[@AETERNA-PASSIO]

The gaming industry isn’t for gamers anymore. Normies are all over the gaming hobby now and it’s why voting with your wallet doesn’t matter in the slightest. Look at the Call of Duty and shite Pokémon game sales. The proof slaps you in the face every time but you don’t pay attention

[@jsmith3946]

Uh are you seriously asking why they won't take a popular kids ip and make it m rated

[@S1RLANC3]

Mounting animals was introduced before video games. You shouldn't be allowed to patent that one.

[@alicerose7856]

If you want to go even further, throwing an object at an animal was invented before the concept of a lot more than just video games.

[@blackdragonkalameet1016]

If Nintendo win this case, the impact would be immense, like literaly a bizarre corrupted monopoly on the game industry.

[@Ebani]

Would mean the death of japanese videogames

[@recursiveslacker7730]

They’re going after Sony indirectly, since Sony scooped palworld up and they have some bad blood. There’s a vid all about it

[@WShoup9818]

They won't win in the US court with their case because their pats are still pending here and haven't been approved internationally but in Japan they could easily win because it's loved by Japan. The Japanese community supports Nintendo on this suit.

[@marioluigi2358]

@@WShoup9818 its sad that a country with great education still just has bootlicking corpos

[@rami8896]

This is why its up to gamers to boycott companies that are trying to ruin gaming for us. If the law wont stop then the consumers can.

[@whitemagus2000]

Tl;dr Patent 1) shooting a gun or net Parent 2) having a dog that follows you Patent 3) mounting a horse. All this belongs to Nintendo, so sayeth Nintendo.

[@idontwannatypeaname]

Nintendo should sue red dead 2, it has all of these

[@norsehawk]

And they only claim they invented those starting in 2021.. I wonder if there are any games prior to 2021 that have any of those elements.

[@adnankhalid8457]

Looks like Nintendo should sue Skyrim next .

[@grimlocked472]

@@norsehawkAs a previous comment stated, RDR2 But I have a few more big name titles that usually feature a few, if not all of the mechanics listed in these patents: - Monster Hunter (World and previous installments and Stories) - Dragon’s Dogma - Minecraft - Skyrim - Literally any sim game - Stardew Valley - Fallout - ARK - Final Fantasy - Dragon Age - Borderlands - Assassin’s Creed

[@KarimM-m4u]

Seems like they will also sue the devs of call of duty, battlefield, Elden ring, ghost of Tsushima, last of us, shadow of Mordor, Resident Evil, my work in progress game 😂, etc.

[@Bigolcheese]

Palworld for the win

[@hamadcheats]

Oh hey, the hyperlink RNG chose you.

[@TheRubyFox]

What win? They're gonna be laughed out of court for blatantly infringing on copyrights. They fucked around, and now they're gonna rightfully find out! 😂😂

[@detectivefischer6396]

​@@TheRubyFox how does that boot taste?

[@riam850]

@@TheRubyFox How are they gonna be laughed out for infringing on copyrights, when the case ins't about copyright infringment but about patents?

[@OfficialMidnightRuby]

@@TheRubyFox It disgusts me I share the word 'Ruby' in my name with you.

[@marquendra]

In World of Warcraft, they have a battle pet system. You go up to small creatures that have an icon above their heads that allow you to battle them with you tamed and leveled pets. They have move sets that are either highly effective, neutral, or not very effective. You can capture them in a cage you throw at them. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Of course Nintendo won’t go up against a massive company that can go toe to toe with them. They go after those they know they can bully.

[@MrDestroyah-kf6ov]

Can’t wait for Nintendo to Sue a kid named Mario

[@VMSBIGOT]

Pretty sure Mario got his name for the lawyer who won Nintendo's case with RKO over the name "Kong".

[@Syntex366]

As bad as Nintendo is they still don’t have Disney beat with insane immoral lawsuits. they forced a mourning family to remove their dead toddlers headstone from his grave because it had Spider-man on it.

[@riam850]

@@VMSBIGOT Wasn;t that Kirby?

[@Riszu]

Now that you mention that, wasn't there some celebrity who named their child Zelda some years ago? Like a dozen years, maybe. I'd get this child renamed ASAP. Oh wait, renaming has been patented by Nintendo as well?

[@VMSBIGOT]

@@riam850 I looked it up. Mario was the name of Nintendo of America's landlord who let the rent slide while Nintendo fought the DK lawsuit. Once it was over they named the character after him as appreciation.

[@blue-cloud-studios]

If every company patented a game feature no new games would come out...

[@mozzarellamaniac6300]

Patenting game mechanics in general is a very stupid thing that's happening in the gaming industry. The more they floodgate, the worse the incoming games would get

[@Iamtheverminking]

I pray palworld somehow comes out on top even if they have to change catching mechanics. I havent enjoyed a game in ages as much as palworld for both solo play and with some friends

[@GAZ-TRX]

It probably will at this point, Nintendo is just pushing too far now.

[@Allustar]

This is a lot more than changing catching mechanics. This is taking away basic fundamental elements of games like Palworld. Mounts have been standard in gaming for a long time.

[@s7robin105]

This is realistically a very easy case for Palworld to win. All they have to do is show examples of video games from the past using these same mechanics to show Nintendo does not have a right to these patents because it was used prior to their application

[@Vezon1121]

Half of these patents would give Nintendo the power to hit any publisher with a suit. This is personal, not business.

[@HalNinethousand]

Wait... With that patent wording... Did Nintendo patent grenades?!

[@sakura368]

there goes all the first-person shooters then

[@Marvin_R]

grenades don't capture or battle anything they hit, they just drop nearby and explode. while grenade and pokeball mechanics both involve the same initial throwing/launching elements, their mechanics diverge a lot after the throw. and the patent covers what happens after the throw as well, so grenades don't fall under the pokeball patent. can't sue over half infringement.

[@sakura368]

@@Marvin_R yeah, they explode, they release damage

[@Marvin_R]

@sakura368 "release damage" is not the same as releasing a creature that then battles the creature it was thrown at. patents don't deal in "somewhat similar", they only deal in "exactly what we wrote here, in its entirety" that's also why they need vague wording on some things. 1 mention of the word ball, and the patent can be circumvented with an egg or cube shape even though the shape is irrelevant to the actual mechanics.

[@guimaciel7457]

Yes, patents in videogames are stupid In 2017 Nintendo sued another company and won, and the parent in question was applicable to 50% of all games ever made up to that point

[@matthewuzulis5016]

I think the patents might be all revoked. There are issues with all of them. First you must have a UNIQUE idea to patent. The capture animals with a thrown object fails this on two fronts, first this has been a thing in real life for a very long time, both bolas and nets do this. So it's not a UNIQUE idea on simply capturing a creature. Secondly Pocket Pair still used this mechanic in a public released game prior to the patent being filed in 2021. They have another game that uses the same mechanic (Craftopia) The riding mechanic is also a non UNIQUE mechanic. This one going back thousands of years. Riding tamed animals is not new. The third patent looks like a mess as well. It's ether too vague or already established mechanics of computer controlled character trying to avoid other things which in their own application shows it's already been done with a car avoiding another car.

[@Nebulosation]

Is this also the case in Japan? They might have different laws regarding patenting. I wholly agree with you that the patents are too abstract and should be revoked for that specific reason, but what we think in the west matters pretty little to the law in Japan if our opinions conflict with Japanese patenting laws. We're just gonna have to wait and see. I will, however, be voicing my opinion with my wallet.

[@quietcorner4694]

​@@Nebulosation funny fact Japan patent law is nearly exactly the same as international patent law with 1 difference being first to file gets the patent not the one who first invented it. Addendum all 3 Pokémon patent if the officials had done there due diligence without bias then yes all 3 patent should have been null and void from the start since 1 it lacks novelty. Ultraman (UltraSeven) a japanese popular series did capsule kaijuu. The literal concept that inspired Satoshi Tajiri which he even admitted to store/throw/capture mons in objects. 2 hunting mechanics should never be able to be patented since it's basic nature for any living predator especially for humans to use object to assist in said act. 3. All these mechanics were predated in a ton of other games. Be it companions following you or riding mounts. Even throwing objects to capture creatures Capsule Mon.

[@Jason-b9t]

​​@@quietcorner4694The most important point for Nintendo to use these patents to sue PalWorld is to strictly enforce its patents and create a situation where "only PalWorld violates it". This is not the first time Nintendo has done this. It also did the same thing before when it sued White Cat Project for patent infringement. Therefore, whether the patent is really invalid requires checking its contents one by one to see if only PalWorld and a small number of games violate the patent. Note: The U.S. patent law is different from Japan. In most countries (including Japan), patents are attributed to the first applicant rather than the first inventor. Therefore, your first argument is automatically invalid in Japan. The second argumentative problem is that patents generally don't describe themselves as "riding patents" that are uninnovative. They will say something like "Improved visual and functional performance of the riding system in the game". As for what the difference and innovation are, you need to check the content. The reason why it will be returned in the end is because the patent is not clearly explained and the innovation is not enough. It’s not just a matter of simply classifying it as “riding cannot be patented” without looking at it.

[@jxwong_3982]

That throwing things at animals and riding on animals have been a thing irl for millennia isn’t necessarily determinative though. I think that would render the patent invalid if you tried to patent a net or a rock-throwing method irl, but the patent is concerned with an in-game implementation method-a technical mechanism. Craftopia has a similar mechanism but the patent covers BOTH the catching AND the summoning, and I don’t think Craftopia has the latter aspect in the same way that Palworld does. Arguably, mechanics in Genshin Impact also do predate both Palworld’s and Pokémon’s mechanisms in similar ways-but they’re not connected to one another in the way the patent requires, which means they might not be a straight match. Some of the continuation patents have been rebuffed by the US patent office though, which means there are weaknesses in them. Japan’s accepted them, which is why they’re able to proceed against Pocketpair there. But some of the reasoning behind the rejections they faced in the States might come up for deliberation inside this case.

[@shadednights6870]

​@jxwong_3982 the pokeball and it's mechanics like shaking three times to confirm a catch is patented by Nintendo. Palworld literally copy and pasted the mechanic so they are liable. Look at both temtem and nexomon they created there own catch system and still continue on with no issues because they didn't just copy and paste pokemons ip they used pokemon as inspiration and made something of their own. Palworld was a money grab using pokemon with guns as its marketing and it worked. But when you steal another IPs mechanics and even there creature design then Nintendo is justified. To the people out there saying that there is a limited number of ways to create creatures and mechanics that eventually the designs are going to look the same that's bullshit if you don't have the imagination or the creativity to make something original then you shouldn't be in a creative driven profession.

[@yamiookami]

I dunno why people keep saying Pal Spheres shake 3 times. I always count 2. Ball Closes > Shake > Shake > Caught

[@falderorham3417]

Linux users can't count.

[@RoboVenturer]

Misremembering probably

[@Azerit]

Mandela Effect, or just plainly assuming it is that without counting because it's so like Pokemon that it should also use the same number. Honestly I can't tell how many shakes it is myself

[@fang4223]

The ball not being deflected could be argued as the first shake, but, it’s not a shake. It’s a signal, plus that’s more a check to ensure your geared enough to actually capture the pal.

[@arision1]

it does shake twice, i don't know where their getting the third shake from.

[@Enynra]

If Nintendo does this. Realistically they can be sued for having a monopoly over the mechanic and the patents.

[@drewbydoo8945]

"They want compensation for damages" Give me a break, the higher ups at gamefreak and/or the pokemon company are the only ones damaging pokemon's reputation. The only thing Palworld did was embarrass a triple A corporation by making a genuinely fun game with far fewer people and resources.

[@futurehistoryarchaeologist4480]

That and getting into a multimedia deal with Sony, the true crime from Nintendo's perspective.

[@warhog258]

@@futurehistoryarchaeologist4480 Nintendo still upset about their failed deal with Sony to make the Playstation.

[@JacktheRacoon]

Brother, Donkey Kong (the arcade game) was based off of Popeye. The idea of grabbing mushrooms (a vegetable) to get stronger could’ve been an evolution of that idea. Nintendo themselves got sued for the name of Donkey Kong because of the similarities to King Kong (big ape with similar name grabs woman and takes her to the top of a building). I bet Nintendo was in a similar situation to Palworld when that lawsuit happened. Nintendo won that lawsuit then, and I think they were right to do so. But now they’re the ones suing a smaller company for what’s effectively also parodying a concept but this time evolving the idea with a new game genre with the gunplay. From my pea-brain non-lawyer non-legal advice giving POV this is history repeating itself. I hope Palworld wins

[@Clonewhopunchedadroid1]

Praying for a Nintendo L

[@kr1me2000]

PalWorld is a terrible game, Nintendo doing a good job. PUNISH BAD GAMES !

[@ImPoStier]

@@kr1me2000no it’s not, it’s decent, it isn’t a full price game, and if you like survival games I think you will like it a lot

[@lordanubyss853]

You should take as big of an L as Nintendo should. ​@@kr1me2000

[@Craxipst]

​@@kr1me2000Bro... Good or bad game, if palworld lose, Nintendo will do even more and worse anti consumer and developer oppressive practices, what's wrong with you

[@typhoontiak6213]

@@kr1me2000 you are a pokemon fan, you are ALSO a pokemon "I like this game therefore every other game like it is bad". Is Palworld a good game? I'd say it does good with what it is. This isn't even about how good or bad the game is, it's the fact that nintendo are suing for a weird non-issue. You want a game as good as Pokemon? TOO BAD! anything that gets close to the concept and is popular enough WILL BE SUED INTO NON-EXISTENCE. Nintendo are being bullies right now, and they need to be shown that they CANNOT just do what they want. so yes, a Nintendo L is a good thing in this case.

[@og_skullkid1387]

Its a lot more than Pokemon with guns its an entire sandbox world. You're literally using Pals to farm, mine, swim, fly so you can get more resources. Pokemon is collecting them all so you can battle them against others and get a badge that proves that you trained your animal to fight better than theirs. Palworld is putting them to labor and working along side them to build houses, farms, mills, towns, cities ect. One is meant to build AND battle the other is just glorified dog fighting. Just replace the dog with a Pokemon. In Palworlds case just replace those Pals with other humans that would otherwise be doing the job.

[@seto007]

There's actually a rather easy fix to the pokeball patent thing: just make them cubes instead of spheres. Nintendo's patent is so specific, as opposed to broad, that this change alone would alleviate the infringement.

[@Marvin_R]

i think shape is actually 1 thing they were deliberately vague about, as that is least relevant. i'd imagine having a capture minigame would be more effective, or using a melee object instead of a projectile(like in horizon zero dawn).

[@nobbyfirefly57]

That’s what I said too, heck they can’t patent nets!

[@hoilaiken]

I don't think Nintendo should have a patent on SHAPES. It's a sphere like object that details information on the chance of containing a living creature in said sphere. If the sphere fails to capture said creture, the sphere bursts and becomes unusable for future use. As much as they are similar, they still act and function differently. A pokeball will never show you the catch rate of a Pokemon. It only implies a chance, which is arbitrary.

[@seto007]

@@hoilaiken I don't think so either. At the same time, having the only change be that the player is throwing a cube as opposed to a sphere would be a rather clever way to get around the system considering the other two patents likely aren't all too valid on Nintendo's part.

[@potaton2277]

​@@seto007 personally , I think a net would be pretty cool, like making the pals be enveloped by a size appropriate net who's ends are attaching to the ground , pulling them down and down until grounded and disappearing (capture) , it'd be dope imo.

[@MAH-ZEE]

As a Nintendo fan, I'm praying for Nintendo to lose this case. They're clearly doing too much.

[@spence6195]

Shamelessly calling yourself a "Nintendo fan"?

[@MAH-ZEE]

@spence6195 Is there something wrong? Is it bad to be a fan but still criticize them for their poor choices?

[@angelthomas9255]

​@spence6195 but the fries in the bag

[@VDViktor]

Problem is, if Palworld's devs pay 60$K - it still sets up a legal precedent. And this cant be allowed.

[@Aldenfenris]

Indeed the moment companies realize they can just bully smaller companies with impunity they will just tax every game they can. Or even try to shut down games they dont specially like. Imagine you try to make a 3d plataformer and some company goes "nope pay us a license to do that now or go to court". Without a precedent people might point and laugh, but I'd there was a history of it happening... And the big companies winning?

[@axis1247]

Precident already exists Nintendo had to pay like 10 million dollars because of Patents on motion controlls

[@Marvin_R]

settlements don't set pecedents, only courts set precedents.

[@axis1247]

@Marvin_R It wasnt a settlement. They lost the court case they had to pay out 10 million.

[@scourgehh714]

No, problem is of they pay the fine that trigger the indictment and palworld get removed permanently from stores

[@archerVSlucas]

They claimed a patent on flying mounts?? That's insane !!!

[@randomrobin7773]

Remember, it's morally correct to pirate Nintendo games.

[@JakeKitsu]

Or mod the heck out of them Prism & Polished Crystal; WOO

[@PeruvianPotato]

Imagine needing morals to pirate anything lmfao

[@lilde7003]

Just got one

[@josueveguilla9069]

Exactly.

[@josueveguilla9069]

All Nintendo games need to enter the public domain. All copyrights need to be shorter. The DMCA needs to be repealed.

[@MissAlissaxX]

Saying palworld is Pokémon, is like saying rimworld is the same as dwarf fortress.

[@nihili4196]

That's really solid comparison. They are similarish enough to make comparison, but still very clearly different

[@riptors9777]

The better comparison would be: If palworld = pokemon so is ARK: Survival evolved = pokemon

[@YuYuYuna_]

It's the same as the morons who compare Enshrouded to Valheim or League to Dota, etc. Gamers for some reason have seemingly forgot that genres exist and that the reason you see games that are similar is because they exist within the same genre which is defined by certain characteristics of gameplay or experiences within the game. RPG games let you customize and build a character while playing through a story usually rich with character development. Racing games you drive cars/vehicles. FPS games you shoot guns. Battlefield isn't a copy of CoD just because they both are arcadey military shooters. Palworld isn't a copy of Pokemon because they both have cutesy creatures you capture to battle against others with. Honestly the creature capturing aspect of Palworld is such a proportionally small aspect of the game compared to what you spend the majority of your time doing in the game. You're building stuff, collecting resources, setting up automation, unlocking fast travel spots around the world, making new equipment and gear for your character, making new weapons for you character. Sure you battle with the creatures but that's the closest thing the two games have in common.

[@Abedeuss]

@@YuYuYuna_ League is a bad example considering it WAS meant to be a direct competition to DotA and other DotA-likes. Pretty much the only difference is League is way less complex, with fewer interactions between characters, characters and AI-controlled mobs and less complex character abilities.

[@youtubeuniversity3638]

I wanns see how many comparisons you can make. You got one that includes Darkest Dungeon maybe?

[@henoccharlot708]

We All Hope Nintendo Lose

[@Rajesh-Koothrappali]

Yes, Ofc we do :)

[@hamadcheats]

Inshallah.

[@nokats]

U mad 😂 ​@hello866t7

[@chriswwe123]

Hopefully they win

[@RigbyIsTheMan]

​@hello866t7 Nobody, they simply stated something I agree with

[@Singecku4K]

It is not Pokemon with guns, the game has so much more to offer with crafting, open world bosses and so much more. Game has a million times more content then guns. Just my opinion

[@DemocracyOfficer289]

nintendo's just pissy that palworld is doing so well while pokemon has been copy and pasting for like a decade

[@CrazyHunterXIII]

They've been copy/pasting main line pokemon games since Red and Blue on GameBoy.

[@thirdwordbird3011]

I think they're trying to keep Sony from having their own pokemon

[@zoroark567]

Compared to pokemon, Palworld is NOT "doing so well". Sword/Shield has sold over 26 million units. Scarlet/violet has sold over 25 million. They're twice the price of Palworld, and are also driving sales of the Switch console as the 6th and 7th most sold switch games of all time. Steam doesn't tell us how many units Palworld has sold, but based on generally accepted estimates, it's likely about 5 million or less. Gamefreak could fart on a cartridge and call it pokemon SuperStinkySun and make more money than Palworld. They don't care about making good games, they just care about money.

[@CrazyHunterXIII]

@@thirdwordbird3011 most likely since Sony wants to turn Palworld into a multimedia giant, making it a direct competitor to Pokémon. Nintendo wants to have a monopoly on the monster catching genre but doesn't want to put in any effort in making a good Pokémon game.

[@D3adCl0wn]

@@zoroark567 Steam sales are around 15 million copies (probably higher now after 10 months), while on gamepass over 8 million played the game (as per the game being on the top played games on xbox for 2 months. For a NEW and INDIE game that doesn't have 25+ years of history, I'd argue that is huge by any metric. So much so that they're expanding similar to The Pokemon Company in 1998.

[@zuriel4783]

Pokemon is just mad that someone finally made the pokemon game that they refuse to make

[@baronvonslambert]

Unfortunately the law is not blind in Japan, as ridiculous as some of these patents are, it's always an uphill battle in court against the ancient corpo firms like Nintendo or the zaibatsu no matter how ridiculous their claims. They may as well have an infinite supply of "Win in Japanese Civil Court for Free" cards printed and handed to them by the emperor himself.

[@unluckyrican]

Yea that's the thing I'm more worried aboot since they might just let nintendo win even if they don't have legal standing because it's a cash cow for japan

[@LyraniaLothar]

0:35 ffs it is not "Pokémon with guns" anyone that has played the game long enough can tell you that the game is a survival crafting, akin to Minecraft, Rust and Ark. The Pals that do have guns also have uses inside the base. Besides you don't get your first gun until level 35 or something so quit calling it that, you discredit yourself.

[@STXRGS]

It not that deep, do u rly have nothing better to do with ur time?💀

[@LyraniaLothar]

@STXRGS It's a game, it is literally a time sink.

[@STXRGS]

@@LyraniaLothar bro I’m talking abt ur comment, how are u this dense

[@berunarudo3451]

I think ppl need to stop saying stuff like "palworld flew too close to the sun", they are being sued for "you cant have scrolls in your game name due to bethesda lawsuit" levels of BS, whats next? From software suing all "souls like games" because it has a roll?

[@Zach014G]

don';t give form software any ideas. R.i.P every rougelite and rougelike game. :( lol

[@冬馬-l1p]

they flew too close to the sun by teaming up with sony to try to make a pokemon 2. theres nothing wrong with giving nintendo competition, but it becomes kinda shitty when you remember they copied so much from pokemon

[@riptors9777]

@@冬馬-l1p You mean like the other hundrets of pokemon clones freely available on the market right now that copy way more then just the looks of pokemon but the entire gameplay that nintendo isnt sueing because those games werent made by studios situated in japan wich has a notorious "big fish" bias in their legal system?

[@ZeallustImmortal]

​@@冬馬-l1pName 2 things they copied. Go ahead.

[@hijiriyukari]

@@冬馬-l1p Pokemon also copied a lot in other medias and even fakemon fanart

[@TheLastLineLive]

Fun fact about Palworld: Sony currently has all of the merchandising rights for the game series, so they would actually have a vested interest to counter sue Nintendo over this or cooperate with the developers in their legal defense.

[@Projolo]

That's the reason Nintendo is attacking palworld if Palworld was independent it would be left alone.

[@HoneyMike]

​@@Projoloyeah and that's why Sony is going after Nintendo. Pokemon is the most valuable franchise in video games and Sony wants to damage Nintendo's trademark.

[@IxodesPersulcatus]

Sony is evil enough they might think that setting the legal precedent is more important, and throw Palworld under the bus in hopes of committing similar patent abuse in the future.

[@GolfinhoVoador]

I still find it crazy how people don't realize this isn't as one-sided as it seems. I still think Nintendo are assholes in this, however Sony is also wrong lmao

[@Projolo]

@@GolfinhoVoador Nintendo has done questionable stuff before mostly going against emulations of old games

[@proxymohawk2933]

Sounds like they’re establishing precedent in Japan (their Legal team’s home turf) against a smaller company who would normally just pay them and be at their mercy. Can’t believe I’m rooting for Sony , but here we are I guess…

[@KhangNguyen-ij4xh]

That’s the problem when people dickride or hate train a corpo. Obviously they do have some good quality to get enough fans, but because they are corpos they are dogshit whenever they are not doing anything good. This is just Sony’s rare annual moment of doing good and Nintendo’s average Tuesday of being trash. Watch everyone completely forgets about this and preorder Switch 2 and Zelda 3D 3 when that come out next year

[@spence6195]

I don't like Sony but I hate Nintendo more, they are way more scummy so I hope Nintendo loses

[@JDReC100]

​@@KhangNguyen-ij4xh that's the thing though. Nintendo usually makes great games. That's one of the reasons people still put up with them even now. There legal team still sucks, but I'm not gonna say their games don't slap (coming from someone who isn't a Nintendo fan).

[@GenuineBattleTag]

Yeah, I wont be buying any product or game from Nintendo anymore. This is ridiculous and has completely turned me off nintendo products.

[@TimeWisely]

The fact you can patent a VIDEO GAME MECHANIC is insane.

[@crazyfloof]

Yea it shouldn’t even be a thing

[@1un4cy]

The infrastructure to make it work, sure, if it's unique enough. But the broad mechanic, no, should never have been allowed in the first place. Just like the copyright debacle back with Asteroids vs Meteors

[@jxwong_3982]

Copyright is doctrinally different from patent though, patent has always protected technical implementations/mechanics/inventions/methods while copyright protects creative works. The issue with video games though is that they’re a close mix of both aspects, and therefore both types of IP rules interact closely in respect of the same work. In theory, the mechanism needs to be defined specifically to be protected-the Pokémon patents aren’t as broad as some people think they are. But they do still raise the risk of inadvertent infringement which obviously isn’t great for the industry.

[@TheZudah]

craftopia had the ball machanic well before nintendo created arceus.

[@Tazreale]

Truth. And you could mount and ride animals in Craftopia. Palworld creators should sue Nintendo over that.

[@shanesheffield6346]

Only Nintendo would be so cowardly to sue a indie studio

[@tobyzilla2.074]

You mean greedy and what's sad is that I personally want to make a game myself but I don't want companies like Nintendo sueing me over a patent that I had no idea existed

[@jsmith3946]

​@@tobyzilla2.074uh no plenty of other companies have done it like in the 80 Atari did it a bunch so did Activision are you saying they should get a free pass on stealing some one else's work because they are indie

[@nauticalerror]

​@@jsmith3946 That is the most brain dead take ever

[@winzyl9546]

Of course, because the only studio they can take are indies.

[@riptors9777]

@@jsmith3946 Really? Citing a case thats over 40 years old by now? From a time where the gaming industry was in its infancy and most ideas hadnt even been come up with? And where hardware was much more locked in and essential? Get out of here...

[@ShaighJosephson]

You're growing on me, dude... I like your character and honesty... Keep up the good work... 🙂

[@MalleusSemperVictor]

This is like a car company suing another car company because it has a similar shape and four wheels.

[@anomishfish]

Palworld does what Nintendon’t

[@jsmith3946]

What make a rip off

[@swegosaurusrex6033]

nintendo has made rip offs

[@sakura368]

@@jsmith3946 you're a ripoff, craftopia came before palworld and palworld started development in 2021, legends arceus was not out by the time craftopia was here

[@jsmith3946]

@sakura368 I was talking about how it was a ripoff of Zelda not pokemon

[@yourfeedYT]

Nintendo is just upset that Palworld perfected the Pokémon gaming formula better than they could. Without even trying.

[@Cluxiu]

​@hello866t7 go find something better to do bro

[@LucifersConscious]

Me I asked lol

[@gamingrootz4411]

​@hello866t7 Bro U good?

[@H.V.C_Shino]

Perfected it? Dude you really are starved for good games

[@ndGio]

I hope they add strip clubs in Pokemon Legends Z-A

[@GalvayraPHX]

So, nintendo basically copyrighted all physics? Wtf is up with these patents, they could apply to absolutely anything...The first could easily apply to shooters like CoD. I can already imagine the 80+ year old judge who "has a clerk to handle email" and no idea what a computer is that granted them.

[@ponocni1]

What I am hearing is even if they might be legally in right, this needs to be thrown out no matter what, because the other outcome would be catastrophical for whole industry. For crying out loud, they are trying to sue for NPC following player character. This would affect probably over half of games ever released. Do not forget, enemies are also NPCs that can follow you if you bend the logic a little.

[@ThreeGoddesses]

Just to clarify, the patents dont hold water. Forget the mount patent, which is already 100% illegitimate, craftopia (pocketpairs previous game which has most of the mechanics palworld does) was released into EA a full year before the patents were filed.

[@sakura368]

also palworld started development in 2021

[@ThreeGoddesses]

@sakura368 actually palworld development started as early as 2016, but as a completely different game.

[@sakura368]

@@ThreeGoddesses so basically, nintendo's screwed up?

[@ThreeGoddesses]

@sakura368 not necessarily. Nintendo is asking for a court to shut down palworld and reward a tiny amount of money (relatively speaking), which will force pocketpair to proceed with legal action for as long as possible. The goal is fairly blatantly obvious; they want an out of court settlement or for palworld to go bankrupt as Nintendo drags their feet through the court proceedings.

[@sakura368]

@@ThreeGoddesses $65,000 is not a "tiny amount"

[@fairyeater-o]

Palworld needs to fight this to the end, Nintendo only tried to settle in order to be nasty/shady and screw Palworld over by masking it as a good thing theyre doing, as if theyre "saving" Palworld despite the fact theyre literally taking them to court as we speak...

[@koboldden5470]

So, does that mean other games can sue Nintendo for patenting features they already did?

[@sal5440]

All three of these patents are vastly too broad and I can see them having a hard time trying to win. The things they "patented" can end up not being protected under patent law for the specific reason of not being specific enough. Patents get filed and accepted just to be turned to dust later on. It's because being too broad limits advancements and creativity.

[@imatiu]

Japan has a clause for this, if the patent seems too broad then, in court, the owner of the patent can specify it even more when arguing for the patent having been violated, of course since the patent is linked specifically to a game that exists they can't really make up something since it has to fit what it already does in the game. Patent law in Japan and USA are very different from one another while in USA something like Palworld would probably be safe of parody protections alone something like that wouldn't work in Japan, since they don't have parody protection clauses.

[@Marvin_R]

have you read the full claims in the patents? that's what's actually protected, not the short summaries people give on news sites and social media.

[@sal5440]

@@Marvin_R It's almost like I said the patents are way too broad. They are. If you don't understand what's being said then go try to be the smart guy elsewhere.

[@Marvin_R]

@sal5440 but are you basing that on the actual content of the patents? i haven't seen anyone make that claim yet after reading the whole patents, everyone always bases it on the single line descriptions shared by news sites, twitter posts, and youtube videos. to me they don't seem overly broad, because the actual claims in the patents go into a lot of detail.

[@sal5440]

@@Marvin_R Okay, let's have this talk then. Patent No. 7545191 "Determining, in a first mode, an aiming direction in a virtual space based on a second operation input, and causing, in a second mode, a player character to shoot, in the aiming direction, an item that affects a field character placed on a field in the virtual space based on a third operation input Based on the second operation input, the aiming direction is determined, and based on the third operation input, the player character is caused to shoot the battle character in the aiming direction." Patent No. 7493117 "A sighting direction within a virtual space is determined based on second operation input in a first mode, a player character is allowed to release an item affecting a field character disposed on a field within a virtual space toward the sighting direction on the basis of third operation input, a sighting direction is determined based on second operation input in a second mode, and the play character is allowed to release a fighting character who fights toward the sighting direction on the basis of the third operation input." Patent No. 7528390 "In one example of a game program, a riding object for ground or an aerial riding object is selected by a selection operation, and a player character is made to ride on the selected riding object. In the case that the player character riding on the aerial riding object moves toward the ground, a change is automatically made to a state in which the player character rides on the riding object for ground so that the player character can move on the ground." What about these is anything except vague? I went and grabbed them so we can see what vague looks like.

[@szymonszadkowski1711]

I feel like Nintendo in 2077 will just sue you for having a pet.

[@Karpicide]

Regardless if they win this case, there will come a time where modern gamers become lawyers and prevent this kind of thing from happening in the future. We still have hope.

[@GodOfOrphans]

Make that legislators, the problem is that this lawsuit was allowed to even exist regardless of who wins the process is the punishment and this whole thing just shows how fundamentally broken the patent system is it should be abolished entirely via the legislature

[@spence6195]

The justice system protect the multi-billion dollar corporations, not the small studios

[@ChazOfHonor]

Dude Dragon Quest had monster taming as a game mechanic way before Pokemon existed

[@EpicMario1]

That pokeball throwing patent might hold some merit if not for the fact that Pocketpair already had that gameplay mechanic in their previous game Craftopia back in 2020, a year before the patent was made.

[@crackmore81]

The Pokeball patent is so fucking abstract that it applies to grenades, so they'd still infringe on it if they removed palspheres entirely. Most shooters infringe on it. Similarly, the mount mechanic doesn't even specify it has to be a creature/character, it refers to objects so it covers vehicles as well, and any with where you can fly planes would be in trouble for this automatic switch from aerial to terrestial if they make the landing gear come out automatically instead of having to engage it manually.

[@Drogoran]

ah patents, the apparent crusher of progress in the software world

[@AntiFreak321]

Palworld is nothing like pokemon. Replace Pal Spheres with nets and it would have nothing even in common with it.

[@Sypaka]

All of those patents are absurd and should be invalidated by the court. "using an item on a character in virtual space" yo, so throwing grenades would fall under this?

[@StygianIkazuchi]

technically that patent is for capture so no, grenades in particular don't count. however, Pokemon didn't invent the creature collector genre and have actively "allowed" other companies to "abuse this patent" for literal decades so it *should* be thrown out on the basis of targeted patent trolling to squash valid competition.

[@cosmicskydragon333]

Fun fact, if this patent goes through Metal Gear Sold Five could violate all of them. Throwing an item is done, you can launch Fulton Devices from range to capture soldiers, with their own stats which you can play as, you can mount a horse, robot, or vehicle. You can Fulton vehicles away and use them later.

[@HaartieeTRUE]

​@@StygianIkazuchino it isn't. It never says "capture" it only says 'affect' which means TO DO [ANYTHING] with the entity

[@Sypaka]

@@StygianIkazuchi In germany we have a special case for this. I don't know the exact term in english "law talk", but "Malicious patent registry" should give you a vague image. -Means, if you try to patent or trademark a thing which has a high probability to cause lawsuits, it will get rejected.- If the ONLY intent for registering it, is to sue others, it will get rejected.

[@SpikedKirby]

@@StygianIkazuchi Digimon 2 on the play station had this, you throw stuff to digimon to capture them. They should lose the pattent for not enforcing it for over 20 years

[@HalibutAcid]

Pocketpair also has another game called Craftopia which if I remember correctly the release date predates even their first attempt of their patents, which includes the same mechanics they are suing for.

[@WarneD1]

4:12 Wait, I read the abstract a few times. Wouldn't this mean dropping a Reinforcement beacon on Helldivers (I don't think this one because it is a PC not an NPC that is being summoned), Skyrim's "Summon 'x' creature" spells, or any game that has you ready/aim then toss a beacon down to summon NPCs to aid you in battle violate the patent.

[@SpikedKirby]

yeah there are a ton of games that have a throw X to summon Y thing that fights by itself

[@rokkraljkolesa9317]

that's not even the most "dude this is too broad" one either the 3rd one is basically just "we're patenting pathfinding"

[@Marvin_R]

legally, the abstract is irrelevant. it's just a quick description of what's actually in the patent. read the claims to see what's actually covered.

[@hettige]

Imagine if a big company like microsoft or sony announce they're going to sponsor Palworld company on the lawsuit. Nintendo would sweat balls if that happened. We'll even have all those patents released for everyone to use if they win

[@RetirededKat]

Atari should sue Nintendo for infringing on their jumping patent.

[@64_three]

for real

[@redspade2303]

Wouldn't be surprised if pregnancy is patented in Japan at this point. Explains why their population is going down. "Oh you pregnant? Here's a cease to exist! If you violate it, it will become a lawsuit!"

[@Archangel96]

that be china

[@Abberaeitsneozm]

@@Archangel96 nah china doesnt give any fs about copyright, reason why they make so much bootleg stuff

[@TheGallantDrake]

​@Archangel96 China wouldnt have a patent system, they'd have a system of credits unless you know the right person, in which case the credits don't matter.

[@TheGoldenDunsparce]

"Explains why their population is going down." Excuse me? What explains that again?

[@Natu-Shabby]

"CEASE TO EXIST" Holy shit, that has me in tears man!

[@Paelmoon]

The infringements are hilarious. Dozens and hundreds of other games would need to go if they succeed. It's obviously a scam lawsuit to try and stop competition.

[@vxvicky]

Aren't these 3 patents presented AFTER the release of Palworld? WTF Yakuzendo.

[@psychedelicbacon5112]

This doesn’t look like a Linux tutorial

[@i4ndy]

@hello866t7 and?

[@nukefoodsofficial5849]

You didn’t watch till the end, he simplifies it in 0.067 seconds

[@ThunderTheYellowJolteon]

Dude, what?

[@koomell]

Very sad

[@longsnoutpug7248]

I see what you did there

[@HoneyMike]

You should talk to Moon Channel, he's a lawyer and youtuber. He just made a video about this lawsuit. In the video he says that Nintendo is suing Pocketpair because Sony is working with them now and they're selling merchandise. That could hurt their trademark and they might even lose it if they don't defend it. He also said that they're only doing a patent lawsuit because they couldn't do a copyright lawsuit.

[@Jerriz_Dabster]

Craftopia(2019) Pocketpair's previous game had most of these mechanics in it but you could catch stuff like giraffes instead and the like Mechanically you could say it was more complex then palworld just not as refined

[@Jerriz_Dabster]

So in all honesty if Pocketpair presents that game things will get messy and might flip Japan's legal system upside down and even hurt Nintendo's public image horribly

[@129das]

you right that might be a way to beat the patent. That was the only one I was have some trouble thinking of prier 2021 examples. but there likely is more.

[@billy65bob]

5:40 Hey Muta, those classifications are worthless; it doesn't say anything beyond "this is a patent about game mechanics/simulation" but in legalese. What you want to do is scroll down and read the right-hand column, which has the actual claims. The "mount" patent for example for example talks about deploying the appropriate "boarding object" in a context aware setting, like mounting a flying pokemon in the air or an amphibious one in water. Or I guess using a parachute or glider in the air if you're playing GTA, since they specifically call it a "boarding object" and not a mount.