Inside a BJJ gym that doesn't drill (ecological approach competition class)

[@Julian-gn1he]

Golden. Super good to have another full eco class to study.

[@denneychoi]

Shout out Bodega Jiu Jitsu for opening up and showing what a pro comp class can look like with CLA. First questions I had were, how does a CLA/ECO class look for beginners, advanced, and even pro/elite levels. I know this was just one days of training but we can pull so much. The volume of rounds and no zero resistance drilling. It's also pretty cool to see Kyvann running thru the games and what they are without over complicating things. Quite efficient. Props to everyone that made this video happen and thanks Josh for these videos. These alongside my own study into CLA has been awesome

[@joshbeambjj]

Thanks Denney! As I’ve learned from you and many other coaches, one of the key things for any type of coaching, including CLA, is knowing the room, so it was especially cool to be able to see a wide variety of these classes at different skill levels and then be able to share them with y’all, because it demonstrates that while the same principles are put into practice across different rooms, it doesn’t have to be a blanket application, and can (and should) be adjusted based on whoever is training. Thanks for the insights in your comment.

[@TheRoot2944]

The eco method changed my bjj! Definitely the reason I was able to get first place in my last tournament

[@joshbeambjj]

That's awesome!

[@alexvasquez9806]

This is great. I love seeing others who have this approach to grappling. I have been training this way for years, and the few people I have worked with who were relatively new or less than a year of training were controlling and submitting blue belts with 2+ years of training, and were starting to be pain in the asses toward the higher belts. In my opinion, this is the best way to train, especially when it comes to chain wrestling and takedowns, which will ultimately dictate how you'll land and approach the ground. Glad you didn't drink the bjj Kool Aid.

[@dyrdek68]

This is sick ! I’m definitely gonna be implementing this approach to my Thursday drill classes !

[@joshbeambjj]

Awesome! Hope you learn some cool stuff from it

[@CoachKevanKillsit]

I feel pretty blessed to have gym. They have a nice little mix of all of the good qualities I see other gyms have. We have these classes on Saturday’s it’s called competition class. The rest of the week is your typical fundamentals/all levels/advanced classes.

[@joshbeambjj]

That's awesome! glad you're able to get good training

[@chrislapiana8392]

Grippo is a beast. We hosted him at our gym a while back - solid bjj. TY for the videos, great work

[@nathankurtz5960]

Loving these. Keep it up!

[@randalorian9]

Solid content, as always.

[@joshbeambjj]

Thanks for watching! Glad you like it

[@MrBeenReadyy]

We played circles game and hips and hooks tonight in my advanced no gi class, 3 of the students told me they felt like their wrestling improved exponentially after just two 5 min rounds of each game. I still believe in traditionally drilling for sure, but there is no doubt in my mind there's something to the situational, restrictive/objective based exploration.

[@KodiakCombat]

Why do you still belive in traditional drilling? What's the appeal?

[@MrBeenReadyy]

@@KodiakCombat well I still notice students building meaningful skills in grappling through drilling; perhaps this is due to my own shortcomings as an instructor in the ecological system; but when it comes to newer students (6 months or less of training total) breaking mechanics/finishing details and limb configurations, i still believe drilling is good for honing muscle memory and areas that require a bit more finesse. Once someone is component enough to have good rolls with the average blue belt, they can probably stick to strictly an ecological approach and accelerate just as quickly or quicker than those still drilling.

[@FBAMaroon]

Good stuff gentleman I am loving the new outlook

[@TheMartialWay]

Another amazing video on CLA! Please keep them coming Josh!

[@cyanidebjj]

Got to meet Greg Saunders at west coast trials - officially drank the kool-aid on the ecological jiu-jitsu approach after talking to him. Very interesting guy. Great video!

[@thaiboxinginstitute]

this is great. we do a similar thing at our Muay Thai gym practicing all the different positions, ranges and scenarios found within our sport.

[@RootsCollective6020]

We also implement the Eco Approach at our gym on all levels, works great for beginners and pro's!

[@razzle-dazzle]

Your jiujitsu already looks so different, smoother, and tighter

[@joshbeambjj]

Thanks man, def feels different!

[@StopTalkandRoll]

Great video, Josh.

[@ngterr2008]

Wonderful work!

[@joshbeambjj]

Thanks! Glad you liked it. And thanks for joining as a member! Looking forward to making some more content for you.

[@nenzonenzo]

“ we don’t drill “ “ drills for 90% of the class - but calls it something else . YT profit. “

[@joshbeambjj]

How do you define drilling?

[@superchunkylover23]

@@joshbeambjjDrilling : here’s a move go do repetitions of it. Positional sparring: here’s a position to start, here’s the goal. Eco approach is just marketing

[@AJJ_Bros]

God this looks so much more fun than a regular "technique of the day" class. Do ya'll find it hard to keep up with the pace? Are there more breaks built into a class like this?

[@joshbeambjj]

I agree! Way more fun. My eyes glaze over from drilling. This class was particularly tough since it was the pro training. From my limited experience with the more normal classes at Standard and Bodega, the pace is still high but it’s totally manageable for the average person (which is the whole point).

[@KodiakCombat]

I haven't implemented this yet but what I intend to do is switch partners each round and treat people like adults. Essentially if you need to sit on the wall for a round, do it. Then come back next round.

[@AJJ_Bros]

@KodiakCombat great idea. I'm implementing it in a smaller morning class with limited partners. I want to keep it fun tho where they're not dying initially lol. Thinking about building in a 2-5 minute break or a positional strategy talk half way in

[@randomacc8981]

How do you find these gyms? Know any in Los Angeles?

[@MistaJayLJ]

So at my academy we warm up with takedowns ect not exercises, we do drill in our classes but we do pretty much this other than we call it micro battles and not games and we call it specific sparring but other than the name we do very similar

[@seangunslinger]

I'm new to this method. Where can I learn more about the concepts and how to implement it?

[@joshbeambjj]

Have you seen my video I did with Greg on game design? kzbin.info/www/bejne/iquUYqSVnb9ngLcsi=hR1snAEwbJHvDBHg

[@seangunslinger]

@@joshbeambjj Thank you!

[@hamiratwal7]

Hey Josh, can you post a link to the map you showed earlier in the video? I want to train the ecological approach but I live in Canada so I can't make it to the states lol

[@richardhall4657]

Where in Canada I train in a gym in Ontario that uses this approach

[@joshbeambjj]

here it is! www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1e5MPTbxnzyb4OO_haZ6y52IsQJADT6w&ll=41.164983660081425%2C-77.84399984036094&z=5

[@hamiratwal7]

@@richardhall4657 I'm in the greater toronto area, where do you train?

[@lisanelson5559]

@@richardhall4657 I’d love to know where too! I’m down in St. Catharine’s (but making a trip to Standard next week to train with Greg)

[@nathankurtz5960]

What is that gym finder map at the beginning of the video?

[@jclarkecoach]

It’s from the Ecolgical Submission Grappling Discord group I think

[@TopLevelJiuJitsu]

I really want to see true beginners doing this approach. I want to see how day 1 peeps are doing it.

[@KodiakCombat]

Good camera work. All you?

[@joshbeambjj]

Thanks! Yeah one-man production crew 😂

[@Seegie16]

Eco method is great for grippo who has already drilled 3 million times. I can't see complete beginners coming up like this

[@KodiakCombat]

Time for you to do more research.

[@Seegie16]

@@KodiakCombat maybe so

[@thecoldquest]

any good Eco classes in California?

[@AndyBuxbun]

Where can I train like this in SouthEast Florida?

[@chasetyt]

Very hard to find, but Vagner Rocha has started to implement this now

[@adamabbas1487]

I think there should be some disclaimers. This method works best when students already have an understanding of the fundamentals of jiu-jitsu or a particular position. You need a coach his understands grapppling at a conceptual level to create games and types of sparring. You also need time for a briefing and debriefing/q&a. For me, as a higher belt I much prefer this type of class for most positions apart from in areas where I am weak or not knowledgeable. Such as combining no gi berimbolos to crab rides to leg drags to leg locks to leg lock counters.

[@eduardtodor6451]

You can make games around nogi berimbolo/wedge/crab too! It just requires a certain level in the room which is rare.

[@dnice.831]

IDK, I think you might be surprised with how quickly beginners progress. I am 6 months in with some "purebreds" and it's super fun to see how far they've come.

[@darmiliosalado3641]

That’s not an accurate statement. You or even I can train a complete novice using this method and that novice will gain skill amazingly fast - at least amazingly fast relative to “traditional” training methods based on non-resisting opponents. You wouldn’t put them in the class from this video, but you’d definitely be able to use basic games with non-grapplers and even non-athletes

[@kyvanngonzalez]

There literally was a disclaimer. This is our pro level class. Our all levels is more focused on developing beginners.

[@KodiakCombat]

None of those disclaimers are accurate or true.

[@studiomonster-c9l]

Drilling is such a waste of time. It’s boring and I don’t use the moves at all.

[@joshbeambjj]

Agreed lol

[@chrisj9146]

Seems like you need a “traditionally trained,” BJJ coach who is an expert of drilled technique to identify the problem(s) people are having and then create a game to address it. Seems like there would be a diminishing pool of coaches over time vs an increasing pool. Seems like an excellent approach, I just question the long term availability of it as classical trained coaches age out (and thus their technical wisdom).

[@joshbeambjj]

Interesting point that def deserves more discussion! I think the crux of it is that you have to be able to “understand Jiu Jitsu” in order to design games for the sport… but I’m not sure if the way of achieving that necessarily means the coach has to be “classically trained”. I’ll be posting a Q&A with Greg soon where he sort of addresses this - the context is actually around the benefits of watching instructionals as an athlete and coach.

[@KodiakCombat]

Seems like knowing the specifics of end goals is all that matters and if you know the goal anyone can become a coach and build games to reach the goal. Should open up quality coaching to more people. The reality is most BJJ black belts are terrible coaches. Coaching is a skill that you don't necessarily get while becoming a black belt.

[@omardiangeloarteaga4875]

I would Think than the apoproach to total Begineers And competitors is diferent

[@Duke_Grooves]

It is, generally speaking as the ability level increases, so does the variability within the games.

[@denneychoi]

Like Duke said, the more experienced the athlete, the more variables are introduced in general. Beginners do get high variability training but you can see in the video for this pro comp class, the variability increases till the small games turn into bigger games (positional sparring) to the biggest game (open sparring)

[@Aliens-Are-Our-Friends2027]

get some fans in there

[@prideneverdies1001]

ecological reminds me of elephants and lions edit: also whales

[@moremoney2264]

So it’s situational drilling and not regular drilling of moves. Its still drilling he just calls it a game

[@denneychoi]

Yeah for sure. Situational is a good start but Kyvann is very specific with where to start, what to start with, when to stop, while reducing as many variables as possible to build skills in a specific area. Get better at the game of jiujitsu by working smaller games. In the video they do end up adding more and more variability and they turn into more traditional situational then even more variability can lead to open spar.

[@shawnfritz6259]

So I guess we just call everything drilling now?

[@moremoney2264]

@@shawnfritz6259 call it what it is.

[@sirpibble]

Students running in circles around the mat immediately makes me skeptical of anything that coach has to say 😬

[@KodiakCombat]

Fair enough.

[@joshbeambjj]

I too am not a fan of running in circles 😂

[@midwestmartialartsacademy]

Looks like everyone is still drilling.

[@shysolution]

You can call it drilling, games or dancing. There basically structure there class around live work and not static work . Meaning your opponent will always be resisting you

[@midwestmartialartsacademy]

@@shysolution Right..that's drilling. Why do we need to try and change what something is in order to sound nuanced or different. Also it is impossible to drill statically, since being static means you don't move at all. It doesn't mean to drill without resistance, that's passive vs active. So even Greg can't use words right.