Inside the Mind of Baby Killer Lucy Letby: A Criminal Psychologist Explains

The name Lucy Letby has now become a name associated with pure evil. The story that has shocked and horrified England, and people all over the world is something you wouldn’t find in even the worst horror movies. A young nurse murdering tiny babies while working in the neonatal unit of a UK hospital. Instead of caring for the most vulnerable, she was injecting them with air, milk, and insulin.. And in one case, even inserting a sharp instrument into a baby’s throat to try and make it bleed to death…. But yet, a UK court has just ruled that this is exactly what Lucy Letby did between 2015 and 2015 when she was just 25 years old. She killed infant babies while on duty and then pretend to the heartbroken parents that she had done everything she could to try and save their child. In some cases she even look up the parents on facebook after, and wrote messages of sympathy to them.
We now know the where, when, and how of these horrific crimes, but we do not know the why. Dr. David Holmes is one of the UK's leading criminal psychologist and joins Colm Flynn on this podcast to try and give an insight into the mind of someone like Lucy Letby, and why someone with psychopathic tendencies can be driven to do acts of pure evil. They also discuss the public's fascination with the case, and serial killers in general, and whether or not people like Lucy Letby should be named in public, given the attention their narcissistic personality so badly craves, or if they should be simply ignored and left to die in prison.

[@ianclark2665]

I still can't believe that the doctors were made to apologise to Letby, words fail me!

[@victorcode2075]

Disgusting isn't it. I really hope some of the administrators are charged with something. They could have stopped this early on but they wanted to sweep controversy under the carpet.

[@hellsbells2028]

Yeah it's really twisted and sickening. I feel so sorry for them and the Nurses. It must have been a horrible feeling knowing you were going to work and Lucy was on duty and then alarms going off and babies collapsing. There's so many victims outside of the poor babies and parents. She's betrayed so many people. Caused utter devastation

[@katiaoliveira9549]

Listen to the podcast about her trial. The doctors apologized for causing her discomfort, not for suspecting her

[@hellsbells2028]

@katiaoliveira9549 yeah they worded it very carefully!

[@mariewalmsley6143]

It's unbelievable.

[@bessofhardwick9311]

As someone with Bipolar disorder, PLEASE don't describe this monster as "bipolar". I can tell you that people with bipolar disorder as just as horrified and sickened by this vile baby-murderer as anyone else.

[@CherryHenry]

murderers can literally have bipolar tho

[@liselottenormannsrensen7867]

Sadly, some times people, with no knowledge, think bipolar and borderline are the same😮

[@user-yq9qo1ih1g]

Good grief, I also have bipolar, and I'm the deputy manager of a children's service, it's not a psychosis

[@StrikingAlexa]

​@@liselottenormannsrensen7867I'm a borderline and we aren't evil either I have empathy, sometimes too much empathy and get taken advantage of

[@michaelcoffey1045]

well said i know of people with much more psychological conditions than bi polar and they wouldnt hurt a fly so well said.

[@hellsbells2028]

The sad and infuriating thing is although Lucy is now locked away she will still have a life, she will still get to see her parents and her friends. The victims are left traumatised for life. My daughter was still born and I remember that day and night so vividly, every sight, sound and smell burned into my brain. My midwife took lots of pictures for me, helped me bathe her, took her hand and footprints for me and knowing Lucy done this for the parents of the babies she murdered has made me physically sick. Its so so twisted. I wish with all my heart the parents and babies could have had the midwife and nurses who looked after my daughter and I. One of the baby's she murdered is buried in the gown that she chose. Its beyond horrific.

[@MrRight1000]

Would you prefer life in prison or none at all? I would opt for no life. Sorry about your loss 🫂

[@hellsbells2028]

@@MrRight1000 thankyou. Hmmm based on my personality I wouldn't survive 5 minutes in prison lol if I had the typical traits of a serial killer than I think I'd be OK

[@sarahholland2600]

Her parents can only visit every 3 weeks. I can't see her friends keeping in touch tbh. It'd be so difficult to maintain it & what do you even talk about? What part of the Wing she cleans? I think she'll kill herself, like Shipman.

[@skyeblu1722]

@@sarahholland2600. Good….I hope she does!

[@k.h.walker2378]

God bless you and your angel dear

[@Woodman-Spare-that-tree]

Beverley Allitt is up for parole. She shouldn’t ever be released either.

[@cathmcmanus9096]

I doubt she ever will be. I don't understand why she never got a full life order.

[@jacquiwilliams3198]

She will never be released never

[@Raising-awareness]

She’s up for parole but not put in for parole. I don’t think she wants to be released she’s comfortable we’re she is if she was outside she be hated and knows this.

[@Marigold502]

LL was almost a carbon copy.

[@ianclark2665]

Letby simulated being a caring nurse, it was all an act.

[@radioog6945]

The psychopaths are evolving to appear normal

[@marcbaigrie2295]

Oh my god, capital letters. This must be serious.

[@Nortongroove]

@@marcbaigrie2295bot

[@greenfrog6449]

Really? Do you honestly think she'd kept up that act since her childhood? All through school, teenage years, college, everything - not once did the mask slip? Have you seen the interview with Karen Rees, the nursing manager? Do you know there was a confirmed case of sepsis on that very ward at the same time LL was supposedly on her killing spree? And funny that all the babies died with NEC-type symptoms. (can cause air embolism and skew insulin levels and turn the skin purple). Try thinking independently, rather than gobbling up the MSM narrative.

[@explorer0213]

​@@greenfrog6449 if this is so why we're there no experts called to defend LL. THE ONLY WITNESSES CALLED BY DEFENCE WAS A PLUMBER.

[@BigOrangeBus]

HG Tudor has just finished a series on Letby. HG Tudor is an expert on narcissism (being a narcissistic psychopath himself) and he has thoroughly scrutinised Letby’s behaviour in his series and analysed her as a sadistic narcissist with psychopathic tendencies.

[@mandywood3327]

Brilliant series by HG TUDOR.

[@sylvia7867]

I watched that too, I recommend it for anyone looking for a bit of understanding 🇦🇺 not that it’s understandable 😓

[@BigOrangeBus]

@@sylvia7867 watch more of his videos, he explains narcissism in a way that helped me understand more than anyone else, including a psychologist ♥️

[@Lantern66]

HG did an excellent analysis

[@lottewied1937]

HG Tudor. Is Not a psychopath! Psychopaths are killers. He said, with a tongue in the cheek, he is also a narcissist.

[@ritanewberry-se4zk]

Exceptional analysis of Lucy Letby, delving into her character, quite fascinating.

[@greenfrog6449]

Load of absolute rubbish, cod psychology at its finest. You've completely fallen for the hype. There's nothing in her character to indicate psychopathy - she kept her friends, was sociable, did well at school and achieved academic success, stable employment, nonviolent upbringing. Most likely the babies died from natural causes - all had "suspected sepsis" in the notes. For such early babies (less than 28 weeks) that would have sounded their death knell. But I appreciate "Baby Serial Killer" is far more exciting and entertaining for the masses and sells newspapers.

[@philipwright6617]

? Does he know her?

[@MrPotsy81]

I had a student whose mother kept calling her daughter out sick. She would call us constantly. One day she told us that she was coming to school for her daughter to get her homework and have lunch with her daughter's friends. We told her no. I warned administration, they didn't believe me. They thought I was crazy. This is how manipulative these people are....

[@VickyHill-sz4do]

This comment is very irrelevant. What has that got to do with these babies being murdered.

[@amazinggrapes3045]

​@@VickyHill-sz4dosuspicious behavior from a person regarded as above suspicion is dismissed, making it easier for them to get away with suspicious activity... duh

[@katuk8173]

Narcissists LOVE to create negative REACTIONS in others. It’s their favourite thing to do in life. It’s why internet trolls do what they do and why LL did what she did

[@radioog6945]

She’s more than a narcissist honey

[@pv2639]

Negative reactions amongst people are probably the most vanilla thing ever. People react to people, get their feelings hurt. BIG EFFING WHOOP. Plain as ketchup and fries, everyone experiences that. But to actually end a life? That's a different song you singing kid 😂

[@sandrabentley8111]

She is a Psychopath not necessarily a narcissist.

[@bmichellew2010]

All psychopaths are narcissists but not all narcissists are psychopaths. Narcissism is the main trait that drives a psychopath to continue their sick acts and behavior

[@poopp6969]

Comparing internet trolls to serial killers is wild 😮

[@lorirees4248]

The doctor just said a person cannot become a psychopath and they are born that way and the host immediately asks the question if a person can become a psychopath. 🤦‍♀️

[@user-oy1fj6vq8f]

Excellent pod! So glad this was recommended! I usually don’t enjoy podcasts but this was great! The hosts comments were right on target!

[@Suelynngrr]

Dr. Holmes strikes a chord of truth and an excellent analysis!

[@juliej3155]

Psychopaths have small amygdalae (the emotional ‘fire alarm’ in the brain that warns us of danger) so they need huge amounts of outside stimulation to feel anything. I’m autistic and autistic people have the opposite issue that our amygdalae are bigger than normal so every moment of every day is potentially anxiety-inducing so we try to avoid over-stimulation.

[@peterllwlln]

I have autism I don't like it

[@user-rl8mq9uf7b]

To say sorry to a killer is terrible and this is horrific the management have to explain

[@bec5250]

I thought this was the best analysis of Lucy Letby I have heard yet - but also, at the start of the video, you gave us a real window into how the families must be seeing watching this play out in the media after the trauma and loss of their experiences. Good work.

[@hellsbells2028]

100% agree. Lucy pleading not guilty has just added another trauma to the parents. They have been through so much its heartbreaking.

[@lindamarshall9724]

Thank you Colm for this fantastic interview. Dr Holmes is a brilliant man, I nursed someone with Münchausen syndrome so understand the problem. Everything the Dr said was exactly correct in my experience. I think there’s millions of people who are psychotic.

[@cathmcmanus9096]

Being psychotic is completely different to be a psychopath. Hopefully you're not a qualified mental health nurse.

[@neards9612]

You mean psychopathic? As psychotic means something else

[@lisasmith7066]

Dr. David Holmes is Brilliant! I’ve followed a few well-known American Clinical Psychologists and Dr. Holmes explains the Psychopath perfectly. Great video. My thoughts & prayers go out to the babies lost, the children permanently disabled and most of all the families who were unfortunate enough to cross paths with this monster. 😢

[@Lavender-blue80]

Hope the judge made sure to tell her that he made no apology for slapping a life sentence on her. She’ll probably continue to claim victim status if she doesn’t receive champagne and caviar as part of her daily meal allowance.

[@jjr1728]

But he's not hot

[@lesley9989]

​@@jjr1728what on earth does that even mean?

[@MelindadelosSantos]

😂

[@Willowgrey31]

Excellent interview. Thank you both.

[@bencoles4452]

A great interview with all the questions people are asking in this awful case. We do have to understand that anti-social personality disorders are a form of neurological dysfunction, and feeding the needs of those complexes should be considered as a mental health condition, also the addiction of continued events, and not just 100% evil. Not to undermine the horrific crimes committed in any way of course.

[@Lavender-blue80]

Playing the victim has become an international sport. This was all about poor Lucy. She felt smothered by her parents but made use of their attention and concern when it was to her advantage.

[@Ann-ez8ml]

Spot on.👍

[@rabbitsrule9437]

Agree with this. I noticed when she said quietly on arrest I’ve had knee surgery.. again playing the victim wanting sympathy a ploy to get people to think she’s vulnerable and it couldn’t be her I seriously don’t believe she had knee surgery.. I mean when?

[@th8257]

Has become? It's always been like that.

[@aka44441]

I think she was in love with the doctor who was married with children. She saw the children as a barrier to her being with him permanently. Hence, the baby deaths

[@kmarie7051]

Yes and that's why I think lucys not a full blown psychopath but a narcissist. All psychopaths are narcissists, but not all narcissists are psychopaths. Narcissism is a spectrum, and people may have psychopathic traits but not be fully psychopathic. Psychopaths don't seem to have the ego conflicts that non-psychopathic narcissists are plagued by. Due to their identity issues, self-regulation problems and difficulties with sustaining self-worth, most narcissists are consumed with needing to see themselves a certain way and they use other people in order to achieve this. Psychopaths don't seem to have these needs, and they don't seem to be very affected by the toxic shame that is a core feature of this type of personality, so they don't need the other person to be "bad" in order to justfiy harming or mistreating them. They don't seem to need any justification at all. Whether the victim can be considered to deserve being abused or mistreated doesn't seem to matter. The true psychopath doesn't NEED to be the good guy. thats f like because they don't struggle with the toxic shame for the self like narcissists. There has found to be similarities in the anatomic features of the brains of people with cluster B personality. This suggests that brain development may also contribute to these disorders.There are anatomic features typical to the brains of individuals with cluster B personality disorders, for example, abnormalities in the superior frontal cortex and amygdala and enlarged striatal volumes. Emotional dysregulation and impulsiveness are 2 prominent symptoms. Psychopaths and pathological narcissists have conditions that are very resistant to change. There doesn't seem yet to be anything to give give them the ability to generate oxytocin, simmer down an overactive reward system, heal a disordered amygdala, strengthen the frontal lobes, or form neuroconnections between their prefrontal cortex and limbic/ reward systems. Pathological narcissists have a condition that impairs the social neuronetworks of the brain. The very regions of the brain that handle how we relate, connect, empathize, manage our emotions, take accountability, reason (socially), inhibit impulses, and practice morality are dysfunctional in this population. There is no therapy that can improve that very complex set of social neuronetworks. In pathological narcissists we see the break-down of affective resonance in their inability to connect deeply with us. To feel with, for, and about us. Different systems within our brain manages different functions and should work together as a cohesive system of you. This condition impacts their social interactions, thought processes, personality and behavior. We rely on these components to be stable when we interact with others - especially our intimate partner. When someone has deficits of this magnitude (pathological narcissism) that means most people will not be able to have a peaceful, cooperative, reciprocal relationship with them. The level of accommodation one would have to extend to maintain a relationship with them will be extreme (e.g., walking on eggshells; always submitting to a fragile ego). We lean on our social neuronetworks within the brainto be able to connect to others; to relate to them; respect and appreciate them. Pathological narcissists cannot do any other those functions because the neuropathways of those brain regions are not functioning as they should. Research findings consistently support the presence of dysfunction within the brain (varying in range) of individuals with pathological narcissism Changing the way they process information, view social interactions, and ‘feel’ (emotional empathy) for others is not something they have the capacity to make happen. However, it is not uncommon for an individual with pathological narcissism to tell their intimate partners that they will change, get better, or do better. This is usually short-lived. The brain disorder will predominate and the pathological narcissists’ manner of thinking and functioning re-emerges. Example - You love and bond with him/her across the span of your relationship, however the individual with pathological narcissism (due to faulty social neuronetworks) will disconnect, become disinterested, and antagonistic, perhaps even hateful across that same time period. Their behavior is in complete opposition to what ‘normals’ do when they are intimately involved and care about someone. Neurobiological abnormalities of this magnitude cannot be altered by the narcissist’s promise to change or “be better.” there will be no change to their emotional processing Emotional processing refers to their ability to form empathy, care, demonstrate morality, and bond. Those are unchangeable. , the neurobiological systems that are responsible for morality, emotional empathy, care for others, impulse control, bonding, fear responsivity, and reward are faulty for pathological narcissists. Those brain systems do not operate the way they should. Hence, the reason they cannot function with genuine love, kindness, or respect toward the people who love them. The interconnections of the ventromedial prefrontal cortex to other areas of the brain are weak and this should not be. This is a huge problem and is likely associated with their immorality and lack of concern for others. There are many regions of the brain, including neurochemistry that are different for those with pathological narcissism. Aside from their minimal empathy, a tendency toward boredom, and aggression, one of the primary facets of their character that creates problems in their relationships is their lack of morality. Because of the symptoms of the condition, they cannot genuinely relate well to others, especially in intimate relationships. Their emotional disorder simply prevents this. they cannot connect and fulfill that deep desire we have to feel bonded to someone. There is no Empathy, Bonding , Appreciation, Trust & Honesty, Moral Reasoning & Care based morality, Respect & Boundaries, Emotional regulation, Accountability, Impulse control in Intimate relationships with pathological narcissists. They do not value or consider the emotions of their partner important. They value self only. Rather than love their partners, the deepest they can reach is to treat them like possessions or objects. Abuse and love are combinations you’ll never find in healthy relationships - Never. Healthy and mature partners instinctively know the line that should not be crossed. They don’t cross it because they love you and care about your feelings - even when they are angry or disappointed in you. Arguments and disagreements cannot erase the extremely deep bond a healthy person has for their partner. They love you, even if they may not like your actions at the moment. Without empathy the relationship is shallow and everyone is disposable. And everyone is just as easily retrieved. Adult narcissist survive through mimicry and mirroring to engage with others to an extreme degree.The act often falls apart pretty quickly, but people may still not see it for what it really is: a clumsy, even desperate attempt to navigate the world by a person who has literally no tools or ability with which to do so, and who will do anything - ANYTHING, including harm other people - to hide the fact that they are having so much trouble. This is not even really about pretending to be a good or interesting person to trick others (though that's often how it works out because it is what works). It's deeper than that. It's about pretending to be a person at all. Narcissists are human beings of course, but many people do not understand how much of a basic personality structure problem there often is here, and how much of a struggle it is for so many of these personalities to simply figure out what are the "normal" things to say and do in everyday life. .Even a dog can eventually learn to do what he is supposed to do when he is supposed to do it. For humans, it is simply a matter of imitating what they see everyone else around them doing. We see it in children all the time. This is a survival adaptation and it works pretty well for adult narcissists in short term or superficial interactions. It is when more depth is required that it starts to fall apart and can be more easily seen through. For non psychopathic narcissists everything they do is about narcissistic supply with everyone all the time, including strangers and themselves...The ego of narcissistic personalities is disordered, dysfunctional and deficient. It's dependent on the input from others in order to function. The ego is the part of us that speaks as "I." The ego is directly tied to our sense of self, our identity. In other words, among other things, narcissists are dependent on others to achieve or maintain a sense of self. Narcissistic supply is how the narcissistic personality continues to function to have any semblance of self worth they are unable to create due to their dysfunction and prevent they becoming suicidal due to their deep feelings of shame and self hatred that they suppress and deny.

[@user-jr5up9dh6l]

I'm a doctor certified psychopath. But I don't have evil in me. I just don't have much of anything. I don't understand empathy not even for myself. But I would never and I mean never hurt another human or animal or even a living thing.

[@mikeymoo1291]

your gramma's not very good for an educated person.

[@MakerInMotion]

So then your lack of desire to hurt people comes from a desire to avoid punishment, right? Because if it comes from a sense of morality, I don't see how you could still be a psychopath.

[@mikeymoo1291]

he's neither a doctor nor a psychopath. He's what's commonly known as a fantasist. @@MakerInMotion

[@carolbaughan8768]

How did you get certified as a psychopath? During school? During your career?

[@ianpeddle6818]

I think the fact that you know what you are negates the potential for harm. I too know I am not a decent caring person with zero empathy but I know what I am and would never hurt anyone.

[@jenicarter4190]

Thank you for this. Chilling insight into this monster!

[@Gillian.Ashcroft.66]

She has destroyed so much. Apart from individuals' lives being horrifically impacted, she has removed trust in the medical system .

[@deborahbergman3566]

Great content. But also...how chilling when this psychiatrist/psychologist said that many psychopaths have a high number of kids where their kids can apparently inherit the same psychopathic genes. This immediately reminds me of a couple of relatives, one having just one child (neglecting, abusing and harassing her via privacy violations...he would later do the same to me) and the sibling that I actually grew up with who I believe killed our mom. Both of these relatives may have also killed our divorced father 30 days later in a neighboring state of my mother. My mother died 2/20 of 2019...30 days later the father would die in a neighboring state in Florida. Chilling to the core. I'm still trying to get help over my mom's death...yet no one in LE seems to really care about dead old ladies.

[@th8257]

This is nothing new. We've known for years that genes get passed down the generations - including the ones that make you more liable to commit crime.

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

I’m sorry you have had to deal with all of that. God bless you. May you find healing and help and be surrounded with love. ❤

[@ilikecats10]

Most sensible interview so far

[@sarahfellows3074]

I feel this is the most accurate analysis I've heard

[@briansaiditsoitmustbetrue4206]

No with a capital NO ..... HG Tudor gives the best Psychological breakdown of Lucy Letby ..Without a shadow of a doubt. Put in HG Tudor Lucy Letby in the YT search... His videos will blow you away.. (He uses a voice changer in his videos... He does not want to be identified.. But he has a PhD in Phycology and knows everything about human phycology) Kind regards Brian

[@laurabeeeeeeee]

​@briansaiditsoitmustbetrue4206 HG does not have PHD in psychology, as good as he is !

[@feanorian21maglor38]

Listen to HG Tudor's step-by-step analysis, it's very interesting, even though it doesn't come from a qualified person. He's truly an expert in all matters narcissism.

[@briansaiditsoitmustbetrue4206]

@@laurabeeeeeeee He actually does

[@briansaiditsoitmustbetrue4206]

@@feanorian21maglor38 HG Tudor actually DOES have qualifications in psychology.. and yes he is indeed AWESOME!

[@dlight4595]

New subscriber, what a great video and interview!

[@lorrainesawday4959]

Mother Theresa wasn't a good example of 'good'.

[@christinetracy4829]

I wonder if she ever hurt an animal on purpose.

[@carolbaughan8768]

Me, too.

[@franmellor9843]

My understanding is that it's a bandied around myth most phsycopaths do not start with animals according to research & medical literature

[@tonyortiz1890]

Exactly 90 % of psychopaths don’t go around killing people, Thank God for that.

[@michaelasimons7645]

Do psychopaths know they’re psychopaths? If Letby could watch this video, would she recognise herself?

[@KBB-nf1dr]

Yes of course they do, I was married to a sociopath, and the first time I ever cried. He came rushing over, crouched down and was fascinated by my emotion.

[@risenshine2783]

What a fantastic discussion! Thanks !

[@gailcullinan349]

A fine interview. Greetings from South Africa. Thank you

[@lorifenner4048]

Do you think the gene pool of psychopathy is getting stronger? Or do you think that we are confusing narcissism with psychopathy? It makes more sense to me that narcissism is what is becoming more prevalent in our society, because narcissists are made rather than born. And usually made by their parents.

[@joycejnn]

Narcissism does seem more prevalent especially with social media being so popular . Not sure if it so because social media is encouraging narcissism or is exposing it a lot more .

[@lorifenner4048]

@@joycejnn I think the latter. True narcissism develops in early childhood.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

It's ALL being misidentified. It's simply demons. There are various types of demons. And people being affected by those various demons are assigned different labels called "personality disorders"

[@Roxemari1]

I think they are born with it, and as in other videos she was loved by her Parents and had a good childhood

[@bitter-sweet-lemonade-0]

Excellent. Well balanced, calm - yet lively interview. Subscribed.

[@margaretdesaubin4456]

Hospital management has a lot to answer for 7 paediatric consultants aired their concerns and we're disregarded to protect their own reputations had they listened to the doctors some of these precious babies wouldn't have been murdered or harmed management needs to be charged my heart breaks for these families they will live with this trauma forever my hope is that these little one's forever RIP

[@Ann-qf5vk]

Absolutely

[@fuchurZero]

Well, they showed the "usual" reaction to this kind of allegations: denial, accusing the informants, burying their heads in the sand. You can see these reactions at hospitals in every similar case. The only exception were the responsible persons of one of the leading german hospitals - the Charite in Berlin. As soon as there were allegations against a cardiologist they suspended him, the allegations proved right after a police investigation

[@carolbaughan8768]

I'd say the hospital is liable for keeping her.

[@mammadijacopo3347]

KZbin is trying to explain Lucy letby but I’m afraid we do not have enough information about her family, childhood and background. The workings of her mind are complex and the trigger remains unclear

[@neards9612]

Totally agree. Hence why this interview is purely speculations

[@jantaljaard835]

Could it be that she is the victim of some form of abuse e.g. Physical, Sexual or even S.R.A.

[@cowoverthemoo]

She wrote about hate, she hated herself and I believe she had good reason to hate herself. I also believe people who hate themselves project that out onto others.. misery loves company and she found her misery to be less painful when she created misery in others she wasn't so alone. I bet she will love prison because she will be around misery.. easing her anxiety. She won't be so alone.

[@Roxemari1]

It probably is not anything to do with her childhood, it is something already in her mind as explained in the video, so sad for the families affected.

[@mikesmithz]

Exactly - this guy is just pulling garbage out from his arse.

[@TheHandsomeman]

You don't spot it, because it is private to them. Inside they either hate what's going on in their, head or Love it. Either way, they don't want you to know. That's why on the photographs she is smiling, so much.

[@th8257]

It's interesting when he talks about how psychopaths often think they're acting in their own movie. That's the impression I had in the videos of Lucy Letby being arrested - it was almost like she was side eyeing the camera to make sure they had caught her fake pained expression

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

I’m sure it was a real pained expression. I wish the neo-natal unit would have installed cameras.

[@simonhick1237]

Will Lucy get deflowered in the big house?

[@neards9612]

Nonsense. You're seeing what you want to see

[@greenfrog6449]

Oh dear. You've watched too many Whodunnits on the telly.

[@harpsailorharp6716gg]

true ...she lapped up the attention

[@k.h.walker2378]

There is no doubt in my mind that Lucy was assaulted the same way when she was preverbal. No doubt

[@elizabethannegrey6285]

An interesting observation.

[@mrbarbelbarbello2332]

That's a fascinating idea.

[@robynmeyer7796]

Great podcast…enjoyed gleaning a bit more sound knowledge on mind matters…thank you so much Colm and Dr Holmes. Stephen King could write an alternate version of ‘Misery’ using this case as a foundation. Just x3 questions I’d love to understand if you do another interview: • Would Letbys ‘experiments’ in killing been likely to progress and get more prolific or painful or move onto other people eg injecting a parent (or pet) with air? • Is it likely that something acted as a trigger to initiate a spree…eg anger with her parents? • Would Letby have been likely to have been doing other sinister things on a lesser scale when she was younger?

[@lawrencegoldworm]

A very informative and intelligent conversation. Thank you very much!

[@jackiestewart3651]

Great questions..excellent and very interesting answers

[@nev7650]

Why is there no screening process for medical staff to weed out psychopaths?

[@robinantonio8870]

Because most of them are

[@mollydownes2538]

Many surgeons have a steady hand for a reason

[@Ruth78620]

Because a lot of them are. Especially surgeons.

[@janicesmith1956]

Her hand writing is a sign of her mind. Cops could have had an handwriting expert to look at her writing.

[@Brian-om2hh]

And you think that won't have happened already?

[@fearlessjoebanzai]

Yeah because that's about as reliable as phrenology...

[@debscornercanada]

Has anyone checked the same hospital since the conviction ??? It should clearly show that the baby deaths have stopped or slowed down significantly since she’s NOT been there?…

[@veragreen9725]

If she is so inhuman why is she being punished rather than being placed in a mental health unit away from society for the remainder of her life?

[@susansullivan2071]

They have named the hospital managers and nurses colleague’s friends But why have they not revealed the identity of Doctor A ?

[@janlittle2148]

Because he would be pilloried. For what? Having an affair. The killings began before he joined the hospital

[@Christina-or4hx]

I read he has an injunction

[@trixi1608]

If they did, he and his family wouldn't be able to live a normal life anymore.

[@Maisiewuppp]

It doesn’t make any difference to the case.

[@Brian-om2hh]

@@Christina-or4hx That's ok, he is using the appropriate ointment.

[@k91985]

Its natural for parents to be adamant that their child is lovely, even if the child has only spoken to them to ask for things, even insult their looks etc, the parent would just take that type of nasty comment as a joke rather than recognise psychopathy

[@Marigold502]

No she wasnt smart enough to get the drs to give an apology- that was the bizarre action of the managment. Also with her 'limited' knowledge she thought there would be no footprint, unaware the more in depth knowledge of an expert dr would find anomalies. Her crimes were almost a carbon copy of Beverley Allitt (who failed her 11+ ) though admittedly LL was a bit brighter. As for those who criticize the drs, they perservered even after being told to apologize and do not have full time jobs as detectives. Sorry for her parents though.

[@blas4me50]

The families that lost children, said they had a riff with Lucy, then within days, their babies would be gone.

[@neards9612]

That wasn't said

[@elizabethannegrey6285]

An interesting snippet of info. Power!

[@stephenkissane4268]

She should have been suspended straight away while they analysed what was going on

[@a-ms9760]

Great interview, i liked the non-sensationalistic and genuinely interesting questions.

[@ViridisAmbrosia]

CEOs of large corporations are responsible for way more suffering and death globally. This needs to be put into perspective.

[@MrRight1000]

Epstein, Gates, Soros, Schwab.

[@janlittle2148]

Tell that to the parents

[@ViridisAmbrosia]

​@@janlittle2148I was responding to 8:50 ish pointing out that CEO psychopaths are incredibly deadly. They can destroy entire communities and regions resulting in death on a massive scale. Obviously it would be insensitive and out of context to say that to the grieving parents who were victims of a serial killer.

[@stevieDB80]

You could also argue that a lot of politicians are psychopaths in suits you look at how many people die due to decisions they make especially going to war how many people die due to war.

[@risenshine2783]

The training she took, all those assessments, all those years of work and it took so long for this to be revealed and done with

[@Ann-qf5vk]

Absolutely

[@Ann-qf5vk]

Moving out of the psychology view how on earth did she manage to take those hospital notes home?

[@MultiPsycopat]

it's very interesting that she chose nursing as a profession

[@reeva5735]

Think about it though.. male serial killers have their 'type' and they have their modus operandi with no qualms in carrying out their devious attacks.. Bundy with his sling on, Son of Sam would sneak up on couples and blast them with a gun etc. Female serial killers have the same urge but they lack the strength. They are a lower level risk takers. But they figure it out eventually and the majority of them end up looking after babies, children and the elderly. It's horrific and sad. Yet fascinating to many.

[@fauxpinkytoo]

She was, herself, a premie.

[@MultiPsycopat]

@@fauxpinkytoo Premie?

[@lela888]

I know a lot of people who went to nursing school and they are all narcissistic

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

@@lela888interesting

[@katiaoliveira9549]

Interesting conversation. Tks

[@tamararutland-mills9530]

She wasn’t playing God. She was playing satan, and did a good job imitating him incarnate.

[@nellybarrett7]

This is so sickening! Those poor defenseless children I feel soooo bad for the poor families 😢 absolutely heartbreaking

[@eppleheid]

Shame that you can't spell so!

[@jeanhopman5659]

Why didn't you ask him if it was possible she was innocent? I've seen this possibiity mooted on the internet and in the newspapers. It bears scrutiny. I'm not on one side or the other but curious as to what makes people convinced one way or the other.

[@christinetracy4829]

I enjoyed this interview. Although obv not the subject matter. I am a nurse and can’t even fathom what she did. I wish they could still hang ppl at the Old Bailey. And she deserves worse even. Colm, I like your style of interview, your empathy for these little babies/their families and how you let your guest speak at length and not interrupting. Subscribed! Lol

[@greenfrog6449]

If you're a nurse have you not considered the chaos and short staffing on that ward? The sewage leak from the floor above? Junior doctors attempting to insert canulas several times more than is safe? That there was a confirmed case of sepsis on that very same ward at the same time LL was supposedly on her killing spree? That all the babies died with NEC-type symptoms? That thru her entire childhood LL had never showed disturbing behaviour, kept her friends and was an academic high achiever? Does none of that strike you as significant - or do you prefer the drama of a psycho serial killer on the loose, as brought to you by MSM? Try thinking independently and logically. Go on, I dare you to question the narrative. Play devil's advocate - /just for fun and see what conclusions you draw.

[@christinetracy4829]

@@greenfrog6449 Honestly I guess I do not know for sure either way. You make some good points. I just happen to believe the evidence against her. And the forensic profile they established on her. I’m more inclined to believe she’s more guilty than not. I could be wrong.

[@Ann-qf5vk]

The movie scenario makes so much sense. Now we're back to the debate re does watching movies have an affect. I'm thinking back now to the Janes Bulger horrendous case.

[@natashaj9169]

Great questions!

[@colettefackrell7349]

Well if she was in fact a psychopath she certainly didn't alienate her friends, and presented very well as a caring person. It seems strange that a true psychopath would be capable of such a convincing act. Psychos almost always have a history of some conduct disorder or trouble getting along with others. That was not the case with her, she seemed to have adequate social skills. I can readily believe she was a narcissist but have trouble understanding the psychopathy angle.

[@beverlyballard3845]

That behavior most likely was only present around 'safe' parents, who most likely enabled and looked the other way. They KNOW their child, perhaps not that she was murdering!

[@colettefackrell7349]

@@beverlyballard3845 right, but true psychopaths as defined by psychology texts have a history of conduct disorders that don’t come out just around a certain set of persons. That’s what I’ve read, at least

[@beverlyballard3845]

@@colettefackrell7349 Well, I have life experience, and KNOW they can be SWEET little nannys to ALL that comes close; except for me, her daughter, my whole life! It's called NPD, and scapegoat! They can control themselves VERY well and FOOL all as they RUIN a life on the side! Peace to you! Book studies mean nothing in detecting them.

[@beverlyballard3845]

@@colettefackrell7349 Lucy's scapegoats were the babies unable to speak up, so she raged out her vile on them, then got to revel in the 'saving' or NOT; either way Lucy was SUPPLIED. Doubt she was gentle with ANY of them babies when noone wS looking; the heel pricks etc. They feel nothing for another, only 'feeding' themselves

[@explorer0213]

Learn narc abuse the little shaman on yt is excellent she is a psychologist and a survivor!!

[@texasrefugee7888]

I was an RN 25 years. I've come across nurses like😊 her, sugar and spice everything nice fake. Between her, Lori Daybell, Kouri Richens I'm happy now I'm usually judged by girls like this as a thug😂I cuss, I 🚬 I, Ima smart alec like my big brothers 😅 Those girls and others like her judge me as a Jezebel 😅👹assume I'm evil. But hurting someone was and still is my worst fear. I had to quit 2006 because I was having panic attacks trying to give meds to the 2or or 3x more patients than I felt safe doing. In US corporate Healthcare it's 💯 about cost-effective profitable care, you get too many patients to handle safely. It's (short staffing) chronic and by design. Disguised as "nursing shortage." Couldn't do it anymore. I would be accused of being unladylike, untrustworthy etc. My peers nickname for me "Nick Nolte of Nursing "😂

[@karenbaldry8096]

Those Drs who reported her as a murderer were ignored and because of that there are more dead babies. Those people should also be in prison. SHAME ON THEM !

[@DavidISHERWOOD-iu1xn]

The reason more babies died was because many more were being admitted to the Hospital than usual. CHECKED

[@poppyflower7873]

I like this doctor. Thanks for introducing him to us.

[@prepforlife4425]

Narcissist being the hero

[@MrRight1000]

We are ALL narcissists to a different degree.

[@lorifenner4048]

Narcissist, give themselves away. You just have to educate yourself as to their subtle behaviors

[@handcrafted30]

Is this guy an actual psychologist or a Daily Mail columnist? He sounds like an arm chair psychologists.

[@katiaoliveira9549]

I’m sorry for her parents

[@k.h.walker2378]

Don't. In my opinion she was assaulted when she was preverbal by someone

[@janlittle2148]

​@@k.h.walker2378that is a terrible thing to say. Youare blaming the parents? For shame. They must be living in hell

[@lorifenner4048]

I think it’s their fault

[@majalovric6920]

Why? They probably had a hand in making a monster....

[@Roxemari1]

I feel sorry for her Parents too, in other videos it was said her Parents treated her well and gave her a good childhood.

[@Anne-py4uj]

This is very, very interesting but so sad

[@DianaMaryM]

I first became interested in this phenomena when many years ago I watched a documentary about a young woman was imprisoned and later released, being accused of killing a baby in her care. Her non-reaction was interpreted evidence of narcissism and guilt. When I saw this I thought, I'd be the first one they threw into the fire, because I would react the same way, calmly answering all the questions and correcting any information that was wrong, just as Lucy did then cracking up behind closed doors. We live amongst huge amounts of prejudice towards people who are different, despite all the chanting for an equal society. Society shouldn't on the one hand be praising calm, collective, cold calculation in a crisis and at the same time say they should be put in prison for the same behaviour. We can't have it both ways.

[@ritanewberry-se4zk]

How can she say she didn’t kill the babies, when she even made notes, saying she is evil, & did it.

[@Brian-om2hh]

And then lied in court over 20 times under oath during her trial.......I can't think why any innocent person would do that....

[@stephencooper1307]

Very good interview and it makes you think more clearly about why LL is how she is. Initially she may have been a good nurse, but problems with her relationship Could have made her believe she couldn't have her own baby, so stopped others to make herself feel better. It was an emotional thing that was more powerful than the risks of being found out.

[@indiabilly]

She started killing the babies before he even started at the hospital, the prosecutor used it to show her as a liar, she didn’t have feelings for him she was using him to appear more normal - she is an expert at appearing normal

[@halsallhome9045]

Do you really believe at 25, she thought her chance of a family was over? Her medical condition was treatable as well.

[@stephencooper1307]

Agreed most people wouldn't think at 25 they couldn't have a family. But some can think their life is passing them by if friends are getting married. Also everyone Lucy had dealings with at work were having children. It must have been into the thousands. That would magnify any personal hangups.

[@kathismith7441]

She wrote that cause she knew she was headed to prison.

[@Ann-qf5vk]

The fascination from my perspective is I couldn't literally kill a fly. Will we ever be ready for the next Lucy Letby?

[@debscornercanada]

Psychopaths are GENETIC, however it doesn’t necessarily mean they will EVER “murder” ANYONE (many are walking around just fine)… it typically takes a head injury or something to “trigger” their dark tendencies. They should try to figure out what TRIGGERED this .

[@richardlongmore9301]

I still have trouble believing she did it. Very strange to have no red flags in her life and everyone saying how nice she is then go straight into baby killing for no apparent real reason and with no real trigger ? I would understand if she had recently had a unsuccessful pregnancy herself or couldn’t have kids

[@feanorian21maglor38]

Well, she was unmarried and didn't have kids. And these couples had children, which she probably wanted. The sense of failure is a trait in all narcissists.

[@Chuckina_]

Do you think it was someone else? Or you think the deaths were natural? I don’t see how it couldn’t be her.

[@znmm2588]

Narcs operate multiple facades always looking to meet the prime aims. Watch HG Tudor’s analysis.

[@Englishroserebecca]

It’s a bit like child abusers one boys mother would beat him daily and if the phone rang she would stop beating him answer the phone and speak as sweetly and kindly as anyone then put the phone down and continue with the beating. I remember him saying it in a documentary. It’s all an act. So awful.

[@richardlongmore9301]

@@feanorian21maglor38 yes but not a good enough reason to risk your whole life in jail. A narcissist might of wanted to do it. And also take pleasure in the parents sadness when a baby didn’t make it. But it’s a big leap from that to actually doing it yourself and putting your whole life at risk. I just can’t see it ? The risk v reward doesn’t add up

[@immanny85]

Pathetic that she was allowed to be absent from the sentencing. Enabled her pathology

[@michaelesq.atpcfii.9862]

Excellent analysis he’s a great psychologist. Fictitious disorder combined with psychopathy may have caused this.

[@sue5980]

😈should be renamed LucyFER, she is truly evil 😈

[@Musicch-gi8ej]

If psychos tend not to kill, it must be the sadistic part that made Lucy kill perhaps.

[@pauladiaz7101]

It would seem evil but i think its insane. Just because someone acts " normal" doesnt mean they arent severely sick, insane

[@fritula6200]

IT'S ABOUT CONTROL...... The quiet type... She looks like everybody's favourite sister: Her surface character seems nice and loving..but her inner depth is a murderer of babies: Her problem is babies and what they represent to her... Sick babies...premature : HELPLESS :

[@philholding6905]

Crikey Dave, you are a busy man with the media. But me thinks Factitious Disorder is more indicative than Psychopathy( or to use the correct term anti social personality disorder), but it could, as is the usual case, be multiple /co-morbid disorders

[@mae6816]

Well, perhaps a blunt instrument may find its way shoved down into Letby's throat perforating her internals to the point of hemorrhage, then treated and stabilized only to have it done again, stabilized and done until the inevitable takes place. Those poor babies, those poor parents and families. May the Lord get them through the darkness of their pain, grief, and torment caused by such a maniacal creature as Letby is. As bad as Letby will have it here until her last breath, one can only imagine what awaits her come the day of eternal judgment.

[@surryakhan7989]

I saw an interview with an ex prisoner, she said LL will undoubtedly have the kettle/sugar treatment

[@helenawalker2398]

Nurses are trained and expected to be advocates for their patients, Their professional body and guidelines are part of their training and continuing practice and development. Also, they carry an ongoing duty of awareness and responsibility of the practice of other nurses around them. Most nurses are horrified that a colleague could behave towards vulnerable patients as what was done to these babies and their families. This woman would have been aware of previous cases such as Allit and the awful harm they cause their patients, My worry is that the infamy of these individuals could attract more psychologically imbalanced persons into nursing. More attention needs to be focussed on spotting and preventing them entering healthcare professions,

[@TheHandsomeman]

He,s making some good points this guy!

[@ruthbashford3176]

This criminal psychologist reminds me of Paul Britton. It's strange that Lucy showed no psychopathic tendencies before she allegedly started murdering babies. The real psychopaths are Dr Dewi Evans and the 'gang of four' consultants.

[@mah3223alia]

Every psychologist/ psychiatrist has a different opinion and diagnosis. Not just on the Letby case, but on almost every case. Its really not a science is it? I say this as a mental health worker with a son with a psychotic disorder who has recived many diagnoses over the last 16 years.

[@ceciliahyde7127]

I believe that she is a malignant narcissist, and being such, she is not sorry. She is the most talked about woman in the world right now, and she has found her place in the sun. Publicity, good or bad, is pleasing to her. May she be mentally tormented by her evil deeds forever, but being a malignant narcissist, i very much doubt that she will be haunted by what she has done.

[@sandrabentley8111]

Psychopath not narcissist. But possibly some narcissistic traits.

[@lesley9989]

He's totally right about Psychopath's in top jobs

[@Brian-om2hh]

Quite a few are traffic wardens.

[@janicesmith1956]

I have sat with mys on in hospital all hours on every occasion. Nurses were not helping him to eat. Being handicapped.

[@Ann-qf5vk]

I absolutely agree re psychpaths are not all killers in the example of CEOs. Ruthless springs to mind. Can't get my around this case

[@Bubble-hw5pm]

And just like that, another Netflix movie based on a true story is born..

[@messrsandersonco5985]

1. "Evil" isn't a psychological term: it's an emotive term. 2. You've clearly never watched Christopher Hitchens on Mother Teresa, and the scam involved. Hmmm. 3. Serial killers like LL are good manipulators. She used pity to get people on-side (like Munchausen mothers). 4. Psychopaths have a vivid fantasy life, and part of that fantasy was the claimed 'boyfriend'. There's no doubt in my mind that no impropriety took place, that Dr. A was naïve and fell for her deceptive behaviour as did everyone else around her particularly her incompetent female boss who got promoted after this despite having failed in her 2 previous senior posts. No wonder the NHS is in such a mess!

[@goydivision5311]

Inside the mind of Jayaram would be a more suitable topic for criminal psychology discussion.

[@DorothyKerr-ln1ee]

Did she really think ,she would ,get away with murder .

[@KBB-nf1dr]

Sadly, if she wasn’t doing it so often, if she was only doing a few here or there, she would’ve got away with it

[@annied9864]

Just for information not a criticism in any way They were premature not infants Thank you for your report I really enjoyed it