Inside the Schizoid Mind - Interview - Jalen Returns

[@SchizoidVision]

Check out Jalen's KZbin Channel Here: www.youtube.com/@@JalenDS

[@aziatix1168]

I remember when about few years ago I was watching your videos about MBTI types- I really liked the way you were portraying MBTI typology in a simple, yet illustrative and entertaining formula. I tried to find your YT channel again and I came across Schizoid Vision. I got acknowledged partially with what Schizoid personality may mean and I also recognise some symptoms of it in me, e.g.: at times I feel like I am a blank space (without developed established personality or identity) and I have problems with indicating my personality traits as I jump from the total opposite spectrums, depending on mood and which circumstance or group of people I actually find myself in. I also feel that I was raised by an empath family who always taught me to be always polite, nurturing, fair, flexible and well-behaved person...but it went to the extreme that I was focusing so much on other people throughout my life (and I was always depending my decisions on people's other opinions and feelings rather than what I really wanted) that I find myself in point when I'm 23 and I don't really know who I really am or who I should be. I want opposite things from life that are so in reverse to each other that I cannot have both of them and because I cannot choose what I really want I stay stuck in many areas od my life. Maybe both of us at least slightly have similar problems and experiences and our interest in psychology is to find ourselves.

[@SchizoidVision]

Hi, good to hear you liked the MBTI content I made. I hear what you're saying about having low self-awareness, and the reasons why. Having schizoid personality dynamics is a complicated condition, and there are other psychological conditions that have some things in common. Therefore, it requires a lot of research and introspection to gain deeper understanding. I definitely think that part of my interest in psychology was related to self-understanding, but more than this understanding the actions and behaviours of other people in the world around me who seemed to function very differently than me. I really wantd to understand the reason why. I can understand what you're saying about how your upbringing affected your relationship with yourself and yes the journey to finding oneself is significant.

[@brendanekins2159]

Very good questions I thought from the SVision lady who's name I don't know. The idea of being motivated by a sense of damage control is just another aspect of svpd that this lady has raised on this channel. More generally, the channel is beginning to garner great respect from me. The videos that discuss the svpd internal world are so accurate (for me) that I've been feeling a lot less like a freak of nature. I'm self diagnosed. Never had therapy. Didnt really vibe with the schizoid-angst channel which confused me a bit. But this site speaks my language. And I'm grateful. Jalen was good too. Very accepting of his lot was what I noticed. Compsred to me anyway. Im in my 50s and only discovered svpd during covid. Like I mentioned I've felt freakish a lot over the years. Not like jalen. Tx.

[@ActiveResearchYouTube]

It's strangely cathartic to discover szpd when you're undiagnosed especially

[@SchizoidVision]

My name is Penzy, which I often forget to mention, as in real life I seldom say my own name, except for making formal appointments or filling out forms. Thank you for your feedback. It's good to hear that this content is resonant, and speaks your language, as this is one of the reasons I started the channel to give a true representation of the condition in alignment with psychoanalytic theory (through which the condition was first identified). When I first discovered the term schizoid personality disorder, I learned that what I was going through wasn't just a ‘me’ being odd thing, and it helped me to begin to understand ‘why’ I functioned so differently from other people. I often say that the condition is one of psychology's best kept secrets, as it isn’t widely publicized or known about.

[@don-eb3fj]

You're not alone in the circumstances and observations you mentioned, I'm also in my 50s, self-identified during the plandemic, felt like a freak on a leash without knowing why, never been to therapy, and not particularly "accepting" of my lot, and over the past year here I've learned more about myself and others than in my entire lifetime before- Penzy's the real deal, very relatable and encouraging, and if you haven't seen her TypeTube MBTI channel you're missing out on a rare gem. I have found it helpful in many ways to participate in the conversation and offer perspectives that may not be consistent with DSM "doctrine", as the entire aim of the channel seems to be to challenge the woefully deficient (and absurd) lexicon and compile an accurate description and model of schizoid(+) dynamics that can actually help rather than stigmatize people like us. Thanks to what I've learned here and elsewhere, I've become a bit of a "guerilla" schizoid advocate (some unfortunates might say "agent provocateur" or "saboteur"- it's a productive hobby😉) whereas before I hardly ever spoke and never commented; that's measurable progress, and when we light up the comments it helps feed the algorithm so the channel gets promoted in the feeds so other 'zoids and non-'zoids get exposure to this perspective, a win-win for all but the status-quo. Check out Mind Mastery too if you haven't, that was my first glimpse into my own head and Joanna's work is helpful. You've found the best kept secret for psychology's best kept secret condition right here though, so pull up a chair and get comfy, you'll be welcome here.

[@RolandoRatas]

'Barriers'. I wonder what advanced avoidance tactics he uses besides, not talking to people, not answering the door and the phone etc. I'm a little master of avoidance, even when I was working in extremely busy offices.

[@don-eb3fj]

Good to see you both in conversation again, about topics that are directly relatable and thought provoking in a productive way that I personally struggle with in my own understanding and daily life as a relatively recently self-identified schizoid(+). It's also a good way to illustrate the similarities and uniqueness between individuals beyond the bland image conjured by the diagnostic systems of a shadowy figure huddled in the corner of a dark room (although it happens some days, mentally and/or physically). Motivation and purpose; discovering, organizing, and maintaining a stable, consistent view of the universes within and without; balancing risk assessment, trust, and reward in interactions with others (often even with "phantasy" others and "parts"); navigating the intricacies of communication and expression through an "avatar" self to maintain safety and autonomy while also establishing meaningful connections; understanding the actions and motivations of very differently-wired others while trying to find the means to articulate the often ephemeral perceptions of an inner world and outer worldview, with insufficient language or sense of skillfullness; the dark days that descend like a tidal wave, rolling you over, pulling you under, drowning you in depletion and doom when you lose your balance and footing on that tiny insignificant plank of solidity, the only thing you have to stand on in the vastness of a roiling abyss, finally surfacing to the same conditions, again and again, all to find answers to the only question that matters: "why?" - yes, the struggles are real, and relatable, and daunting, all contributing to the general dearth of good information and awareness of the reality of the schizoid experience. Content like this is the exception to the rules of disinterested ignorance and false-assumptions, a small warm light of comfort and honesty in the cold dark- here's another bundle of driftwood for the fire to help keep it alive, with my thanks. The true self/false self dichotomy is probably one of the most misunderstood aspects of the schizoid condition, even for schizoids evident from the great difficulty of describing the nature and operation of the component parts and how they are observed and experienced, which are obviously unique for each of us; yet from this discussion I see some basic similarities to my own in that some form of "phantasy" is involved as a means of providing form to the formless "parts" of our divided selves so we can converse with our several selves- the questions remain: which part is observing, which is experiencing, which is communicating ? Does the dynamic change?, and how often? Is one part involved in every interaction, or does that vary? Is it easy to distinguish between parts, and how is the distinction known? Are the experiences primarily abstract, emotional, intellectual, visceral...?, all or none of the above ? Are other sensations or perceptions involved? What does the false self consist of or contain?, and how much connection and communication occurs between it and other parts when interacting with the outside world? Is it consistent, or does it shapeshift ?, of its own volition, or in response to some master/slave relationship, or autonomously as required by present circumstances? Is it employed in all interpersonal contact, or only in some but not others? How related is it to the internal parts, how much of it IS you, and how much is manufactured from foreign elements or invention? How do you know what is native and what is extrinsic? How do you modify the basic construct, and who does the designing and outfitting? Big questions, and lots of them, and obviously I wouldn't expect answers; it's an interesting exercise in self-awareness though, and any examples might provide a better interpretation of the concepts of self, false-self, parts, masking, the internal/external divide, similarities and differences with other "disorders" like BPD, NPD, DID, ASD, AvPD...or merely illustrate the diversity and creativity inherent in the condition, and definitely challenge your descriptive prowess! - new skills!, or a new edge or point on old ones. (Torikaeko always appreciates a nice honing, and it makes him all the more fit for fine tuning a raven's tailfeather 😊). It's difficult to decipher and articulate how my own false-self (I prefer "avatar") manifests and how the different parts are related, partly because my interactions with others are minimal, mostly on a transactional level related to work or other business, or confined to a small circle of people based on familial ties or (even smaller) some common interest or pursuit that usually involves work or a utilitarian hobby or project. I simply have few compelling interests that others identify with or could participate in, and even those have largely been work-related, or a means to ESCAPE from the world of others. My interactions are primarily geared toward service to the needs of others in some capacity, usually for some mutual benefit or exchange but not always, sometimes simply from duty, altruism, empathy, or simply because I like the person and/or what they do, or because it feels good to do good and be appreciated for it. I attribute this to the Fe MBTI function, which for me seems to operate more passively than many other INFJs, probably because in childhood it was so often exploited or used as a means of monitoring and mitigating threat (or maybe that's WHY it developed into my primary extroverted function?) I'm nearly always polite but very cautious and low-key, almost never initiate interactions unless I've had opportunities to observe and learn through identification/mirroring (non-voluntary, it just happens) the communication style of or some commonality with the other person. Even though I know cognitively that most people LOVE to talk about themselves, I have an internal aversion to asking questions or even formulating them without some preliminary input from the other, probably a form of projection of my own defenses and private nature. You might imagine, this combination makes "small talk" and superficial conversation damn near impossible, and therefore difficulty with establishing ANY level of relationship. It makes me a good listener though, and people who like to talk sometimes find it attractive; mostly the things they talk about just makes me want to imitate VanGogh- but I just listen, nod, "mmhmm" occassionaly, and grind my teeth until they get bored or run out of steam, or I suddenly remember an appointment I forgot about..."SHIT!, I'm already late, gotta run, bu-bye' now!" Yeah, I know it sounds horribly arrogant, different strokes for different folks and all that, but GOOD GRIEF ! , beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here! On rare occassions someone will reveal an interest that I can engage with, either a similar one to my own or a novelty that grabs my attention, and some level of bond can be established, but seldom developed into something deep or lasting- part of me wants and welcomes that, but for the most part my avatar is pretty perfunctory, stoic, and narrowly focused on its principle purpose: provide for (minimally) and protect the body and the inner world behind my eyes and provide service to those few who help further that end and give some meaning to existence or make it more tolerable. It does what it can with what was left over when all the other parts were exiled to the space between for their own safety, with only minimal conscious awareness of their existence, sticking to the shadows and margins, living on crumbs, avoiding traffic to prevent being stomped on, wearing a hard shell and keeping a low profile, adapting to austerity with an eclectic mix of simple skills honed to a fine edge. ... until recently, when a long chain of earthshattering events broke my mind open and my subconscious started talking, and my attention turned almost exclusively inward or to the study of what I'm finding there, with little interest for anything else - maybe it isn't the optimal approach, but it isn't like I have a choice either, I can't go back the way I came even if I desired to. So I explore, I use my fantasy archetypes as they make themselves known to play out my internal dynamics and connect with dissociated memories and emotions conceptually, so I can know more of myself and slowly try to integrate more of my parts' characteristics into my avatar- my participation here and elsewhere is a result of that effort, having learned to speak through writing as I never have before. Something I'm learning through all this is that the wider your sources and vocabulary of language and symbols, the easier it is for the subconscious and unconscious to express itself, and for me the languages of music, mythology and astrology, some religious writings, folk and fairy tales, etc. make for rich fodder for emotional and abstract expression- these forms and stories tell the history of humanity and our psychology in a symbolic format more easily adopted by our limbic brain, where emotional processing primarily occurs. Hope something in this helps someone in some way. Great job on this Penzy and Jalen, lots to study and think about.

[@SchizoidVision]

Everything you are saying is relevant and relatable. I think especially when you bring in the INFJ cognitive functioning component. People in the MBTI community often think I don't have extraverted feeling (Fe), because it tends to be more subdued than in 'non-schizoid' INFJ's. I think for reasons similar to those you see in yourself. I will add that I think that having schizoid dynamics means that we use our Fe in a more 'defensive' than connective way (which now I think about it you probably eluded to). I also see the symbolic language you talked about and esoteric channels of investigation as being useful. Along with vocabulary expansion, for assisting in the expression of our minds... in my opinion you are a prime example of someone who is suceeding in this realm of communication. I agree with what you are saying about phathoming the differences between the true and false self and yes it is very complex, and brings forth a prolifera of questions. It makes sense why it may take years of therapy to dissect it all. I have come to think maybe it doesn't need dissecting, just perceiving. As you mentioned... there is no going back... only forward. Going back is like trying to revert a cake back into it's component parts once baked, the parts are all in the cake but transmuted into a different form. I have found that with increased consciousness I have improved in certain areas of my functioning. Schizoids apparently have a good propensity for self-help and also handling complex information. So maybe we simultaneously both individually and collectively hold the answer to our unique constellations, and we solve our own puzzles... which are likely to be primarily of our own making... Due to the very nature of our psychic structure... The schizoid labyrinth.

[@don-eb3fj]

@@SchizoidVision The cake metaphor is perfect to illustrate the pervasiveness and intimate entanglement of the features of the schizoid condition; my loose-associating mental rat's nest immediately connected this with a line from Stephen King's "Insomnia", his interpretation of the three Fates Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos: "Done bun can't be undone", and then to the rough sketch of my own interpretation of a young Seeress mother giving birth, attended by a Witchdoctor, a Midwife, and a Duella, mixing potions, muttering incantations, and casting the bones while placing wagers, as the stars wheel behind the window above. Your expression is more "appetizing", especially as it relates to the outer appearance, our perceptions, and the ingredients themselves- might some of those ingredients remain more discrete ? , like a pineapple upside down and inside out cake? Might we (as well as others) find ourselves more inviting and welcoming 🍍 by slicing through the plain outer layers to reveal the more satisfying richness within? Perhaps with tea, and a guest? From the smile, I'd say I'm correct, and it's good to see. For my part I always find more satisfaction than I ever could have anticipated in sharing a slice of my perspectives and interpretations here with you and your other guests; I'm pleased that my offering brings some value and that it is acceptable, though I often still feel my recipe could use a bit of something- it's a work in progress, taste and tweak. Your own baking in the reply above, especially that last sentence of your last paragraph, displays many elements of mastery - perfect texture!, thanks for sharing. 🥮☕️🫖 "Soul" food.

[@SchizoidVision]

Nice to see that you got what I meant... and to hear your intuitive take on this. Another log for the fire 🔥... Howdja know I would smile :)

[@exuberanttarot]

Thanks ❤

[@jethrobodine9155]

Penzy, I have a million conversations, theories, critiques and treatises in my head and they churn around, and round, and round… Trying to capture them into coherent sentences and type them onto a page or screen to share with others is usually a herculean mental task.

[@SchizoidVision]

I hear you, expressing our thoughts especially when abstract often requires translation and this can make sharing our ideas with others more challenging.

[@jethrobodine9155]

I started The Outsider by Colin Wilson a few years ago, but I stalled on Chapter 5. I hope to get back to it at some point. It’s not an easy read, and both Mr. Wilson, who wrote it at age 24, and Jalen, who read it at 19, make me feel pretty inadequate at 65 for an intellectual feat I couldn’t have imagined doing at the same ages. Like Colin Wilson, I have an ongoing interest in the paranormal and I think it’s an existentially relevant area of inquiry. I am a little disappointed in his “optimism”, but I’m still interested in his thoughts. I listened to a podcast interview of him he did in his 80’s.

[@SchizoidVision]

I haven't read it as yet.